From Accidental Hotelier to Longevity Pioneer: An Entrepreneur's Journey with Allen Law
40:46 Share

Do you manage your own IT for distributed teams in Asia? And you know how painful it is. SFL helps your in-house team by taking cumbersome tasks off their hands and giving them the tools to manage IT effectively.

Get help across eight countries in Asia Pacific from on and off boarding, procuring devices to real-time IT support and device management. With our state-of-the-art platform, gain full control of all your IT infrastructure in one place. Our team of IT support pros are keen to help you grow. So check out ESEVEL.com and get a demo today. Use our referral code ASIA for three months free. Terms and conditions apply.

I think the why is so important but it's always not really being asked. Most people want to know what your growth looks like, how is this offering different from another offering. So those are the questions we get most of the time but going back to the

real why we actually do this in the first place is the most critical question if you ask me. For myself personally, it is all about having a positive impact in the society. We have chosen to go down the route of wellness, fitness and longevity to having that positive impact, which we believe is extremely important and a strong one, whereby I'm personally putting a lot of energy, funds and capital behind it to ensure we

educate the community, the society to establish and adopt healthy and active lifestyle and that will only benefit the entire population. Welcome to Analyze Asia, the premier podcast dedicated to dissecting the pulse of business technology and media in Asia. I'm Bernard Leong and everyone wants to live longer. How does longevity combined with wellness and fitness help us to live longer?

With me today, Alan Law, co-founder of Move Repeat, chairman of Revell Training, principal of Savino Capital, founder of Park Hotel Group. And Alan, first of all, a big thank you to you and Grand Park City Hall for hosting me here and have this face-to-face interview. So to begin, welcome to the show.

Thank you. Yes. So your journey actually from hotel magnet to a wellness entrepreneur is pretty fascinating. So I always want to start off with origin stories. Can you share how your business career began? Yeah, I started with hotel. It's kind of

I call it an accidental hotelier in a sense. So my family originally is in garment manufacturing, then they venture out to fashion retailing and real estate back in Hong Kong during my grandfather's days. But as the generation grow, our family have one very good family philosophy whereby we only have one family member in one business unit. So as that

Generation growth from my grandfather one to my dad's generation, six of them to my generation now is 20 over of us. And the next generation, I cannot keep count already. So basically the idea for the family is to grow a business that you can somehow relate it to

yet it's a separate business and then it becomes a seeding venture and a business group on its own. So for me, I started with hotel, but then in recent years, I've started to seed businesses in the wellness and longevity medicine field. So I'm hoping to bring it to a much bigger platform and stand alone as a business venture on its own. Yeah. So your background is very fascinating. So you stepped into leadership at

hotel group at just 24 years old. And then you transform it and turn it into a regional hospitality leader. Reflecting on that experience, what leadership lessons did you internalize earlier on, especially from observing your family in business? I see that with my wife, with her family business. So I think it would be a very interesting thing to think about. Yes, I was literally a fresh grad from uni. I studied in UK and I just got a call from my parents and that they have invested in a

hotel property in Hong Kong and they have no intention of learning how to run a hotel. So I'm the next generation and just graduated and I got the call from my father and said, okay, now is the time for you to come back and start learning about hotel business. So that's when I take the next flight home and

literally drown myself in the hotel. I started with almost like a fast track management training program. Typically will take a 24 months period. I can't complete it within nine months. I'm doing two shifts every day within the hotel. At the end, I have actually wrote a proposal to the family and say,

Now I see a tremendous opportunity for tourism in general across Asia at that point in time. And for us being in real estate, we see that

putting more money and funds behind investing in hotel is a good move. And that's when I got the family to set aside a pool of funds for me to invest further in hotel business. And that was just less than one year after I've joined. Yes, because I remember you telling this very interesting story in King's College, right? Yes, King's College. Alumni, well, my wife was the alumni and I happened to sit in as a spouse.

And that talk that you gave about how you set up the business from your entire entrepreneurial journey was very inspiring. So I got to ask you this question before we get to the real big subject. Based on your shift from hospitality business now to wellness, fitness and even longevity business, what are the lessons from your career journey that you can share with my audience? I would say getting your hands dirty, go back to principle. What

is the business set out to do? What is its ultimate goal beyond financial success? Of course, in business, every business has its own P&L, it has its cost to pay, and obviously, every business wants to make money. But that is, to me, is just financial sustainability. It's just a given for any business. But

What makes a successful company is ultimately you fall back onto what is your ultimate purpose, what is the impact in the society. And once we have that why being very solid, then when it comes to the what and the how, it will be a lot easier.

Yeah, then that is really good advice. I think first principles thinking is what you are alluding to. And so I want to get to the main subject of the day and want to talk about the wellness, fitness, longevity through your different businesses. So I want to start for the benefit of the general audience out there. Could you share

how you define the business of wellness, fitness and longevity. I think during our lunch before this conversation, you spoke about the six pillar framework on longevity. Can you walk us through the different pillars and explain how the framework actually informs your strategy around the business in the longevity, wellness and fitness segment? Yes. So the wellness and longevity field is

quite why is but then ultimately it go back to as I say the principle what are the foundation of living a healthy long life that's what wellness and longevity means and ultimately if you follow the lifestyle medicine principle which they have six key pillars and some of which I would say all the audiences and the public will actually know but somehow is

getting tough for people to actually execute. So the first one is sleep well. Yes. Literally just sleep well. Eight hours of sleep is essential, right? Obviously. If you don't get a good sleep, then it will affect the rest of your day. So that makes this actually is you need to do some form of physical exercise. Everyone knows exercise is actually healthy for us and it's proven by many science research behind it. And it's not just helping us

keep a healthy body, but then it helps us in our mind getting sharper as we go along our day in making important decisions as well. And then next is the big one is your food, your intake. So do we go with the healthy diet or do we go with the junk food that is easily accessible today? So those are the food choices that we made in lifestyle, medicine, survey or research. They will say you probably make over 100

decision just on food alone, whether I should look at this food or should I eat that food or how much should I eat and when should I eat. Just in one day, you will have hundreds of these questions to decide on. And ultimately, these small decisions you make on a daily basis will affect your food choices as well.

Then some other pillars like avoid harmful substances like your cigarette, your alcohol and drugs that is almost given. And then having a positive social connection is critical for mental health as well.

And last but not least is stress management. We are all somehow cook up in a very stressed environment, especially those living in the city. I think most of us are working in a very high stress environment. But how do we manage that and how do we de-stress will be one of the important process that we need to put in place as well. I totally agree the one on stress management, because I think that was once I went to the U.S.,

stay in the Bay Area and there was a stress management course and actually it helped me to even take away the heartburn that I was having and that was really a very good way of managing it. But I want to go down to the what is the potential market opportunity and how are your businesses say move, repeat, revel and even Savino Capital that's poised to try to make a difference in

these three segments? Yes. So we started with exercise first. We jumped into fitness and I've co-founded Move Repeat two years ago and we have acquired the largest yoga chain in Singapore, Yoga Movement. And last year I bought a

yoga movement to hong kong as well and and the intention is to continue a chain operation in hong kong as well and then subsequently in the north asia and we also own the strong pilates singapore franchise as well and early this year we have announced the acquisition of revel training from australia so currently move repeat we have three brands operating in five countries with 50 over studios

So because you shift from the hospitality sector to the fitness, wellness and even longevity, what drove that transition and how did your experience from the Park Hotel Group actually shape the way you approach Move Repeat, Revel and the other businesses that you acquired so that you can scale it so quickly?

Yeah, so I was running part of the health group back then and we look at wellness, which part of the wellness that we are already involved in. So all of our hotel will have a gym, have a pool, some resort hotel will have spa treatment and yoga session, etc. So kind of

fitness and fitness offering is already part of the hotel it's just a very small business office and in in the hotel industry we call it the minor operating department actually it's so minor that we actually call it the minor operating department but but then i was thinking okay since we are already have some limited know-how in in the fitness area and why don't we start

looking into how we can grow that fitness segment as a business on its own. That's how Move Repeat was born. And yoga movement is actually, I was practicing there at that time. I love their culture, love their brand and love their service delivery. So I got in touch with their founder and we got a deal done. Wow, that's it. So I guess the thing is that it spans five brands, you have 50 studios across 30.

five countries. I think scaling is always one of the most difficult part, but probably because you already have the previous experience of scaling hotels. So this is actually much more easier. Yes. Scaling to me is actually not the difficult part, to be honest. The importance is actually having your initial concept right. In the industry, you probably call it the proof of concept. Yes. You need to make sure you're first off

is good. And then of course, we all make mistakes, especially for the first one. We need to continue to fine tune whereby you have established a model whereby you actually can multiply. And then for, let's say for yoga movement, strong pilates, there's a rebel training. They have all established a proven model whereby they have already multiplied to a certain extent within the initial geographical location. So with that, actually for me, it's just taking

something that is already well established and taking it beyond their home market. So I think that is to me is the easier part. And especially I have experience in different jurisdictions, understand some of the local rules and regulations and nuances. It's actually making the in-road to a new market a lot easier and consider reduced risk as we move into the new market.

So now what we are focusing on for Move4Repeat is actually building that community at each of the market that we operate. And actually you'll be surprised how many other visitors actually come to our location, our different location. And then they actually interested to

become our franchisee in other new market as well. So it's actually having that foundation of a community whereby your community themselves are so satisfied with the offering and they want to bring you to somewhere else that you are not there yet. So I think with that buy-in from the customer on the ground, it is tremendous underwrite of what we believe and what we are doing day to day.

So I think you have yoga movement, you have Revealed, more repeat, you have Pilates, you brought together really what I call diverse modalities. What is the thinking about say building an ecosystem or scaling one dominant brand? Do you essentially would try to leverage their diversity?

to have a much more centralized economies of scale or do you think of them as able to help to fulfill the fitness wellness pillar of the six pillars that you talk about yes so each of the brand will have its own growth strategy but

At Move Repeat, what we do is we help each of the brands to take out some of the non-essential items. For example, some of your back of house administrative work, some may be HR related matters and some may be a

marketing strategy so some of these we take it at the move repeat level whereby we let the brands to focus on what they're good at and continue to deliver that surface excellence at each of the studios and continue to train their trainer and instructors to deliver a new program and new block of trainings for different brands as we move along what move repeat as a group collectively is actually helping the brand to take out some of the nuances that they would

probably like someone to outsource to someone, but then they're leaving that important part to continue themselves. So Move Repeat provide that platform. Of course, we continue to look at other modality and brands as we move along with Move Repeat to add in different brand into the portfolio. And we will see a strategic growth in the near future whereby we actually

have a sizeable collection of brands and operations across the world. And at that point in time, we potentially will introduce some form of membership or cross credit system whereby you can just be a move repeat members and you can access all the various brand names. That will be pretty much a lot what customers would want given all these different modalities and

but you can actually draw them through just that one brand itself. So because you are the chairman of Revvle, right? What's the vision for that brand? Yeah. So for Revvle themselves, it is, I would safely say, one of our fastest growing brands within the portfolio. We are expecting to double our size in, I think, next 12 months. And in three years down the road, they are expecting to grow revenue sixfold.

So the growth trajectory for RAFL training is tremendous. So our team headquartered in Australia is working extremely hard in making sure our backend can support that growth. So to us, the demand is there. So how we ensure our supply chain and operation can support that growth. So that's the important part. - Actually, what drew you to that model then? I mean, there's also like localization required

Australia is very different. Well, not really that different from Singapore in terms of city base, but maybe...

to some other jurisdictions definitely have differences yeah how do you think about taking these global trends and then localizing it yeah so the global trend at least for rebel training is that it is strength and conditioning group exercise so you see the trend is you get more and more people joining for example high rocks as a fitness competition and a lot of our members who want to be

train for their games and raffle training ourselves actually conduct internal games as well so recently in Singapore we collaborate with Robbie7 and had our raffle games at the National Stadium of Singapore actually that's a pretty good fitness yes for you to do yeah exactly so a lot of people understand it's not just about

burning that calorie, which typically you will see in running or cycling. But people now recognize that you do need to incorporate some form of strength training as well, which Revo is the best fit that you have both strength as well as the cardio portion that you train both sides. So the global trend is definitely supporting what we're training. So actually, what is the interesting part about consumer behavior

whether it's in Singapore, Australia or even the greater Asia Pacific stand out to you like specifically how people are now engaging with fitness lifestyle and even wellness what are the trends like? So I think the trend is actually people want variety last time the model is

each of the fitness brands will try to tie you in with, let's say, a 12-month contract. Please sign up this subscription, 12 months, lock-in contract, you're with us all the time, right? So that's the old model. So for us, we don't believe in contracts. We sell you even one single class. You can just come in for drop-in one class. But if you want cheaper options, then you buy, maybe commit five, 10, 20 classes. It's a bit like a pay-as-you-go. Yeah, yeah. Literally, so that also forces us to

to be on our feet all the time because at any point in time if our service is not satisfactory to the consumer

they won't come back. - That's a form of customer obsession, right? - Yeah, so that help us and our entire team to focusing every session counts, every customer satisfaction counts. Instead of the old days, like you sign a contract, this guy come in or doesn't come in, whether he's happy or not happy, no one really cares. So we have went away from that model and literally focusing everything about customer and we ensure you that you are satisfied that you want to come back

It's not because you are being tied down with a contract. So I'm going to ask you this question then. What is the one thing you know about the longevity, fitness and wellness business that very few do? Everything I know is probably the industry would know also. But the one that I think it stands out is

the word holistics i think the market currently most focusing one piece of the puzzle so let's say for the exercise brands they were like all about exercise they may try to touch a little bit on maybe nutrition your let's say your private trainer may say oh you need to eat healthier while you train maybe or increase some protein intake for example so so so they may try but ultimately

each of the offering is pretty niche in one pillar of what we earlier mentioned about the longevity pillars. So for me, I think the importance is not about one pillar, but how about looking holistically

all the six key pillars and how are each inter collated to each other and almost back to the earlier question was like if you don't sleep well how do you expect to go on your day proper as well so exercise is important but as important as recovery and sleep correct you

You don't recover, how do you go and exercise tomorrow again? I would have mandated at least myself now to sleep eight hours a day because it really has a lot to do with the energy for the next day. So to me, it's all about holistic wellness. You need to focus on all the key pillars and not just one. You may not be excellent in all, it's fine. You take a small step on each of them. Instead of taking one extreme,

Yeah, so that will be my advice and approach. So I know you're now venturing into the longevity. So with a new business, I well, I was stealth mode. So can you share a little bit about the upcoming launch? But how does it really complement the broader move repeat vision? Yeah, so so is exactly what I share about holistic. Our next venture is all about holistics. So so a lot of people ask me, oh, what are you trying to do? What how is it different from the market offering?

To me, what we are trying to offer is you can find the same type of offering, but you may need to go to six, seven, eight different places.

But what we are trying to do now here is we bring all this in-house in one location with one brand, one team to look after all the six, seven things that you potentially need to go outside for. Including the medicine part, right? Yes. So we have longevity clinic focusing on lifestyle medicine with medical doctor and our chief scientific officer endorsing the protocol and the research. And then how we literally prescribe

a lifestyle to the individuals and giving them the advice what

active steps they can do to improve their health. And then we incorporate a health coach to guide you along your wellness journey and facility we have, including your exercise, whether it's your Pilates, yoga, gym, etc. And then we have a recovery area from your contrast therapy to your cryotherapy and your oxygen chamber, etc. for your recovery. And then we also are working with sleep specialists and consultants to

guide you and teach you how to incorporate sleep into your daily life as well. And not to mention about food, which is an extremely important part. So you're going to have a nutrition specialist too? Yes, we'll have a dietician and nutritionist helping us to craft that menu for our F&B offering, as well as providing consultation to meet each

person's needs. As we know, everyone tastes but are very different. And most of us also want a variety of cuisine as well. We don't stick with one cuisine. So we keep trying to different cuisine on different days of the week. That's how we encourage the team to ensure we provide that variety suitable to the individual's preference and circumstances as well. Yeah.

My wife and I took some of these practices and we do it more personally. It looks like you're taking the whole thing to scale. Like you have the entire end-to-end. So, but from customized to everyone. So there seems to be a strong movement of startups, businesses now entering into the longevity sector. I think Singapore is a pretty big hot

bit. I was just talking to, because I'm part of the angel network with all the tech executives, the XA network, they are now looking into the longevity startups to invest. Then there is MicroHealth locally through Y Combinator in the US. And I also know a pretty well-known venture capitalist in town, former co-founder of Match.com is also involved in looking into this business. But there seems to be what I call different spectrums looking from healthcare, fitness, technology point of view. What are your perspectives in

in terms of reconciling these different strengths through the way you're thinking about longevity business. Yes. So you now need to add in a final capital as well. Where the fund is 100% focused in longevity and healthspan. That's right. So we actually have received so much

interest from various startups in the longevity field. And that's why we actually set up this fund. We see actually a funding gap. Despite what you mentioned, there are few funds out there would put money behind it, but there's literally a funding gap to fund some of these startups and great ideas. So we are trying to provide that

be the fund that can have a extreme focus and know-how in the longevity field to backing these ideas. And at the same time, at our end, having scientists and researchers to endorsing whether the ideas and project behind it potentially can be a successful one as well. Or can be even integrated into the business as part of

the start-up can actually work with and collaborate as well. - Potentially, it's not a requirement, but potentially as you see as our wellness, fitness and longevity portfolio grow, for sure there will be synergy across different brands within the portfolio as well. Although it is strictly not a must, but I think most of the partners that do see us as a better choice of funding partner because other than money,

and capital, you get the know-how and support from our wider portfolio. I should probably bridge the XA team with you and have a conversation on that. But I want to talk about that 38,000 square foot, the whole facility that you're going to in Singapore, it's actually a very significant step because you're going to put all the medical, the fitness, the wellness, all in one place.

I want to get your sense of how do you think about the medical science, the clinical expertise embedded in the design and delivery because you walk me through the place and we were talking about it and then I was like wow this is very interesting way of thinking about how do you design a space to do everything. Yeah so I would say it's first of all it's kind in Singapore if not in Asia so you will find very little similar setup

outside. So what we do is we go back to first principle is what do we want to achieve? So basically we go back to condense down to the real things that we want to achieve is that we want to cause positive impact to one's health span.

And the more people we can help, the more successful we are. So that's our belief. So then for us is we go back to see, is it the knowledge gap? Then we say, no, it's not. People actually know what is important to live a healthy life. That's right. People know. But then...

go down to the outcome but how come so many of us are not living a healthy life yeah and having a lot of chronic diseases and you see the data and the trends is just going to get worse yes correct and what we see is that the gap is actually between the knowledge and action and the hardest part is actually changing

one's lifestyle. You have to change your lifestyle and routine. Everyone say I'm busy. - Yes. - I don't have time, I don't have money to do this and that. But if we think back ourselves, let's say sometimes I do what I call a zero-based analysis for business. Basically, assuming we have nothing,

today and we are going to build a business and what does it look like right so let's apply it to our lifestyle let's say we just woke up and we have nothing planned what will we do

Then we start laying on, it's like, okay, I may want to do some meditation when I start, maybe a yoga session to start off and then I eat a healthy breakfast. Then I start my work. For example, things like this, you may start thinking differently instead of like, oh, now I just dive into my email and then start off and check my phone first. So perhaps we can all dial back and say, okay, if we apply a zero-based analysis to our own routine, how would it look like if we want a healthier outcome?

Yep. Then that's how our offering built around. We have a large team of experts and professionals to actually help people to design their routine on a daily basis. And then we be the buddy with you to sometimes need to encourage you, sometimes we need to remind you, and sometimes we may need to nudge you a bit also. Okay. So ensure you make that lifestyle change because lifestyle change are difficult.

That's right. They are difficult. And sometimes you literally need a buddy to go along this journey. And sometimes you have cheat days. It's fine, no problem. But it's literally how you incorporate all these into your daily life. It cannot be very, you cannot make it too hard. If it's too hard, you just like, oh, one month later, everything forget.

I noticed this in fitness training, right? You get a fitness coach because not because of the fitness coach is actually to remind you to get to that or even strength training. You don't need a coach to have you count how many reps of a bicycle you did. It's actually to push you to do more weights and on that. I want to get back to the Savino Capital because you are almost, you build a business, a hotel business to a chain and then you're able to scale. You have a

have almost the mindset of an entrepreneur, right? When you evaluate, let's say the same investments and longevity space. And I don't think that has actually is very different from how you think as an entrepreneur. What specific traits and qualities you look in founders or the market segments within longevity or even in the other two segments that you will find most compelling?

Yeah, so typically we look at for Sivano first is because we have a very clear mission in mind. So the first thing we filter is actually does the startup or the founder mindset in line with what we set out to do, which is to improve healthspan. Does it meet this requirement first? Okay, so that's the first filter. Then it comes down to the second one is actually is

How do we see the founder mindset in terms of really delivering that human health spend

benefit or are they just looking at creating a nice story and maybe making quick money out of it? So we really need to drill down as to what is the real intent? Is there some deeper story behind it whereby it will be the key driver and energy behind that founder, even because every startup will face many challenges and whether this founder can fall and get off fast and have that determination to go all the way is going to make

a success or failure for this organization that we potentially investing in. So I think having a deep understanding of the founder's philosophy and mindset behind why he wants to do this startup in the first place is the second most important for us. So what are your long-term visions to integrate technology and science into

I think it should be a cross-save wellness, fitness, and longevity business, right? Because it's a very multidisciplinary business. Yes. And you're right. The holistic work, which is the one thing that is really that you identify. So what are the mental models that you need to have in order to navigate such a

multidisciplinary business because i think we had a discussion where we there's a technology guys coming in looking from a technology point of view then there are the medical people coming in from the medical point of view how do you see it yes so first and foremost our offering will be anchored by science so so we want to ensure

whatever we do or whatever we advise other people to do, science-backed and evidence-based. So there'll be form of tracking. So data is important to us. How is your biometric site as of today? And then after you go through certain program and diagnostic and protocol with us,

Then how does your new set of numbers look like three months down the road, for example? So we want to ensure we are not just here to talk about how good it can be. We want to show people realistically and scientifically and what's the data look like if you go through certain steps with us. We believe that those data will come back to be the main driver for people to wanting more and progressing through

through their health journey with us. I will be remiss because I think during that lunch conversation we had, one of the things I really clearly remember that you were talking to me is the emphasis on community. So I really want you to talk about this. How do you emphasize the role of community in promoting all this kind of holistic health across your different ventures? Because I think if you think about the

the updates and the yoga movement, they are all community-based growth. Yeah. So if you look at today's longevity offering out there, I would safely say most are targeting the wealthy top

five percentile of the population and is some even marketed as you spend this hundreds of thousands a year, you don't even, you're not even, not just getting a healthier self, but you have this status as well. So it's very elitism somehow. But what we are trying to do is actually trying to, with the help of technology and AI, we try to democratize

our offering so that we can bring down the cost and open up our offering to probably middle 50 percentile to be in the position to afford a healthier options that we have. And improving the blue zone in Singapore, even the region as well. Yeah, for sure. We do strongly believe that the science is strong, the action is weak. And if you say

getting into an improved health state for a population level of a blue zone is actually achievable. It's very achievable. The really stumbling block is how do we create a model whereby it's easy enough for people to start making small changes.

And that small changes with the data back, they see in a certain months to come, they themselves will actually see they become the advocate of it. So the more people are going into it, it end up become the social norm. The old days, the social norm is to go to a bar and drink and have a chat, right?

You see the alcohol cell has been reducing and we hope to see the social norm of actually going to a yoga studio or going to a gym or going to a healthy diet is actually the place we will have our social connection. Agree. And in fact, now people don't even want to drink alcohol anymore. They want non-alcoholic. That just took away, I think, 24% of the actual alcoholic business. Exactly. Most of the big

big alcohol brand now are selling non-alcohol version of the same thing yes yes so i it would be you i would like to ask this so what's the one question that you wish more people would ask you about whether it's ravel move repeat or any businesses or even longevity what was the one question that you wish people would ask you more i would say is the why behind why

we are in this business. Then why are you in this business? I think the why is so important, but it's always not really being asked. Most people want to know, what's your growth looks like? How is this offering different from another offering? So those are the questions we get most of the time. But going back to the real why we actually do this in the first place, is the most critical question if you ask me. For myself personally, it is all about

having a positive impact in the society. We have chosen to go down the route of wellness, fitness and longevity to having that positive impact, which we believe is extremely important and a strong one, whereby I'm personally putting a lot of energy, funds and capital behind it to ensure we

educate the community the society to establish and adopt healthy and active lifestyle and that will only benefit the entire population so my traditional closing question what does great look like for revel move with pn all the businesses i think even including savannah capital

for the next few years. Yeah, so it's definitely the idea of community building, whether it's for Savino, it's the building that investment community behind supporting small businesses in their journey in the same field, or like Raffle or Yoga Movement, that we continue to build that community that engages with the individuals and sharing why

for example, yoga is beneficial to them or why strength conditioning training is beneficial for them. I think continuing to build that community is ultimately our most important task. And with that, the growth of the organization will only grow with your community growth. If our community don't grow, the organization will just be stagnant.

Your demand is capped. I totally like the approach because one of the things you highlighted in one of the six pillars is the importance for social interactions. And that community part is actually very, very hard. The first five pillars I think is possible, but the community part, I think is really the strength of what you are thinking. Yes, I think it's actually kind of the magic touch into it. It's almost like the old days saying is word of mouth is the best marketing, right? So literally it is.

if you build a community that single user or customer are so happy with what you're offering they'll for sure tell their friends and family and even for myself i can do yoga anywhere i can like just roll a mat in my backyard and i can do my yoga but the question is when i enter to the yoga studio

The vibe, the energy we share within the studio is totally different. So that community, whether it's in form of verbal or even informal, in verbal. So just being within the same space, you can actually sense that energy within the room. And then when you're chilling out at the lounge area, you can't chit chat with some others that are

either new to wellness and exercise or someone is already many years practicing as a yogi, the conversation you see is actually a very positive one and an encouraging one for the entire community as well. So I always urge my friends or associates that you have to just take the first step. The first step of engaging with some of these wellness community

That's all you need. You will feel the vibe, you'll get the positive energy out of it and you will want to do more yourself. That is a very good way to close the great question. So Alan, many thanks for coming to the show. So quickly in closing, two more short questions. Any recommendations which have inspired you recently? I've recently read this book called

the whole story by the Whole Foods founder John Mackey. So it's indeed quite inspiring for how he started the Whole Foods and now he's actually engaging in similar business that we are going to operate in in what he calls Love.Life. Yes. So it's also similar lifestyle offering encouraging healthier lifestyle choices and the facility to support that. So it's very encouraging a book to read. That's an interesting book. I actually bought the book

but I haven't started reading it yet. So final question, how can my audience find you? I would say easiest would be my LinkedIn profile and I regularly update my LinkedIn. Alan Law, you'll find me there. And you can definitely find the podcast everywhere, across everywhere. We just hit our 100k subscribers just this week. And Alan, many thanks for coming on the show. And I look forward to continue the conversation. Thank you. Thank you very much.