The Transition to Electric Buses: The KMB Experience & Philanthrophy with William Louey
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Yeah, we plan to replace the fleet by 2040. We can't scrap all of them now because each bus lasts for 18 years. So we have the depreciation for 18 years. They're all from the UK. All the buses are from the UK, all the double-deckers. That's the only country that makes double-decker buses. Same as Singapore, all the double-deckers are from the UK. Because of COVID, when we replace all these diesel buses to electric,

You need a lot more power, a lot more electricity to accommodate this. So the government has to work with us. But today we can't really see that if we import all these 4,000 electric buses to Hong Kong, there won't be enough charging stations. We have to build a new depot that accommodates electric buses.

So in Yuen Long, we're building a seven-storey new depot that can charge 1,000 buses every night. But after we built it, the government has to give us the confidence that they can give us power to charge these buses. So there's no point building a new depot and there's no electricity to charge it. So we're delaying it now. But the idea is still the same. We will have to replace it with green energy because it's much better for the environment.

Welcome to Analyze Asia, the premier podcast dedicated to dissecting the pulse of business technology and media in Asia. I'm Bernard Leong, and how does a fourth-generation leader of a family business help to facilitate the most important transition to scale bus fleets to electrification and sustainability? With me today, William Lui.

non-executive director of Kaolun Motor Bus, or KMB in short, and founding member of JNW Properties to discuss this major plan and also some parts of his philanthropic work. So William, welcome to the show. Thank you very much, Bernard.

Yeah. So in preparing for this interview, because of all the materials I have, I've done some research of your work and I'm pretty impressed by some of your philanthropic work. But I want to start with your origin story. I mean, given your background as a fourth generation leader of a family business, who are the key people within your family that provide you with the tenets of both business and philanthropic leadership?

Well, I mean, the most important person is really my grandmother, because my grandfather died very young at the age of 50. And then she basically took care of the family business. And then my father, of course, also died very young. He died when I was 18 years old. So he was only 49. Sorry to hear that.

Yeah. And then I was very much influenced by my grandmother. I lived with her. And since the age of 18, we live on this house on the peak in Hong Kong. It's basically the two of us and eight dogs. And that's why, you know, I'll later on tell you about, you know, how we launched a pet bus, Bus Roots for the Hong Kong.

Hong Kong public, which I have recently been interviewed by the Hong Kong newspapers. We have dedicated bus for pets, you know, any pets, including snake. I've seen people carrying snakes to the bus. And I'm going to tell you about that. And then my grandmother was the one who gave me all the philanthropic ideas. She built a lot of old people's homes and she helped the disabled children in Hong Kong.

And she used to take me when I was starting from the age of seven. I started going with her to visit these old people and disabled children. I didn't like it at the time because it's boring for me, right? And then she kind of made me make sandwiches in the kitchen and then we would bring it all to play with these children. But they were not children, you know, they were grown up. I mean, maybe 30, 40 years old, but mentally they are like three years old. So at that time, I was a bit...

frightened by this. But then later on, I think it has somehow implanted this in my head that it makes me want to help people. And then I kind of changed her idea a bit. I started to help very bright

children, you know, no, it's all because I'm very efficient and I try to do everything with minimal effort and get a big effect. Right. So I thought to myself, if I help a handful of bright people, they can change the world instead of helping thousands of, I'm not saying that they don't need help, but for my, for me, I get a lot of satisfaction helping the brightest of the brightest. And because I want to make an impact.

So that's actually the inspiration for the financial world. So how about the business side? Even the business side, you have to have integrity. And KMB actually serves 2.8 million people every day. Ridership, we have 2.8 million people riding on our buses every day.

And it's a very difficult business to run. Every little detail, there are accidents, there are people who slipped in the bus, elderly people. And it's basically something that I think people don't want to start a business like that. And my great grandfather started it 102 years ago, like in 1921. But if you start a bus business today, nobody wants to do it. But then I think it's

We don't make a huge amount of money because we have a big fleet of buses and we have 15,000 employees. It's a very, very difficult business to run. And then we have to communicate with the government a lot to fine tune the bus routes. And when there's huge inflation like this year, we have to increase the bus fare. And then everybody will be shouting at us, although we only raise 3%. And it's a big deal for the Hong Kong public.

And so, yeah, I guess it's the difficult part of actually trying to have the mission of serving people and then profit being, I guess, sustainable at the same time. I look at it as a contribution. We're doing good to the society. I really don't like to make money from trading. You just sit on your desk and look at a computer screen. To me, that is not interesting at all.

I've never liked trading. I leave that to my, you know, of course, I look after my family for wealth. But I asked my professional to do it. I pay very good people to help me run my family office. But I'm personally not interested in stocks and shares and trading and bitcoins. All these things are or anything speculative. I'm not interested in. I'm interested in

being creative and to help the community and to make an impact. A lot of satisfaction inside. I want to get to the philanthropic part, right? I guess the times that you spent with your grandmother sort of inspired you to

set up the William Louis SD Educational Foundation that funds students. William S.D. Lewis Scholarship. William S.D. Lewis is my grandfather's name. Ah, that's right. I'm L.K. Yeah, L.K. So that funds the students to start in universities overseas as in you're trying to help people so that they can also create an impact

That's right. So can you talk about that? How did it come about? I started the scholarship in the early 90s. And the idea came about is I got married in 1990.

And very soon afterwards, my wife was pregnant, literally nine months after we got married, you know, we have a son coming. And I talked to my wife one night, I said, look, you look at all our friends, all enjoying the crops from our previous generation has brought us. A lot of my friends just, you know, wake up at noon, they go to the yard, they smoke a cigar, and then they look, they talk about red wine all day long. But I said, how are we going to bring up our kids?

We have to have some kind of support. And then I said, oh, why don't we, because of my grandmother's idea, right? So why don't we set up a scholarship for the brightest of the brightest? And at that time, China was just opened up. And I was a member of the YPO. Do you know YPO? Yes. Young Presidential Organization, right? And I met the only YPO from China at that time. Only one YPO.

from China in the whole wide world. His name was Richard Yan. And this Yan, Richard, and then I discovered Richard Yan. The Yan family is actually very interesting, related to the Song sisters. The Yan and the Song sisters

very close family friends. And they were literally like the Chinese royalties, not royal, royal, but the very influential Chinese family. And the Yan family started Nankai University. And so I talked to Richard about this. And I said, Richard, I have this idea. Can you help me find some really bright children in Beijing so I can go and meet them?

And it was in the 91, I think. And then I told my, at the same time, I told my lawyer friend to help me set up the educational foundation properly, legally with the Hong Kong government. And that was at the same time. Then I went to China and then Richard found like a hundred very bright children because he went to all the four top schools in Beijing, you know, Rendai Fuzhong and all the

top universities they have a connected middle school so from those middle school it's very easy they have talent classes and these children who are talented they are three to five years ahead of normal children so Richard just went to the headmaster and headmistresses and said oh with Mr. Lui in Hong Kong has this idea and he wants to send some of your kids to study abroad so

Then he helped them and then 100 people apply to this idea. So I went up to Beijing and I met them. My mind was completely opened up and I was so impressed. You know, that was in the early 90s that these children were talking about nuclear dumping and the Greenwich Observatory in England. I don't even know about, right? I was studying in the UK all my life. And then they talked

about the meter ruler and the science museum. They know so much. And I was so impressed. So I said, you know, I sat down for three days nonstop interviewing 100 children.

And then in the end, I shortlisted to 25. And then I said, okay, I'm not going to take all of you, 25 people, because I simply cannot manage in the first year, right? I have to take care of every one of you by myself. So I said, I will come back in three months and I see how your English improved.

So it's like a competition. So they started cramming their brains with English, right? And then I went back and then I screened and screened and screened. And in the end, after a year and a half, I screened down to six people, six children in the first year from Beijing. And then I have to go through a second hurdle. I have to go through the Chinese government and the education department in Shanghai wants to meet me

and summoned me and asked me why I'm taking their "gòg bǔ" - you know, their treasure of China away. And I said, look, they are no treasure until they see the world. And whether they come back to China and contribute or not, it's not my responsibility. It's your responsibility if you can attract them to come back. But in the end, they all went back.

90% of my scholars went back and then they have a wonderful career. You know, people like Didi and Shunfeng and all these people, they're all connected to my scholarship. Wow. So I would ask you, right, Dad, can you also talk about how did that lead it to the Paid Forward Foundation? And do you think that it has actually achieved your original intention? It wasn't. It was just somehow, you know, just all these things just

by fate, it just came to me. You know that movie called Pay It Forward? Yeah. That is the movie that came out. And then I bought all the... At that time, it was CD or DVDs. DVDs and CDs. I think from 90s to the day was the transition. It was very low resolution. So I bought all my scholars this movie to watch. And this movie is about you help three people unconditionally. And then

they pay forward and then they help. So there's a multiplying effect and I thought it was a really good idea. Two years after I started the scholarship, I sent them to boarding school in the UK and then this movie came out and then I gave them the DVD and then they watched. Then that's how the Pay It Forward Foundation came about. It was set up by my scholars. So now they have their own scholars. So I have two generations of scholars now.

I have scholars, scholars. And I met them and we meet regularly. Yeah. So what advice would you give young and aspiring people today about doing good and doing well in the world? I think being creative is very important. I don't think we should like copy other people and, you know, get the idea. But, you know, but you do get ideas from other people and try to modify it. But I think

A lot of people say, oh, young generation these days, you know, the Generation Z and Generation Alpha and all that. They all have all these comments about them. They never stick to anything for long. They don't even get out of the house and they just play video game all day long, that kind of thing. Right. But because I'm involved with the scholarship and every year I interview 150 scholars and I'm blown away by that.

the improvement from every year. So there are good people, always good people around. I'm not saying that, oh, everybody, all the young children nowadays are all spoiled and they don't want to work and all that. But I do see, you know, because I'm involved with education and because I'm very close to Oxford, you know, especially St. Hugh's College. My son went to Pembroke.

And my stepfather went to Bailiw. And so a lot of my people around me, you know, all came back from the UK, you know, from top universities. And so I'm involved. I see bright people all the time. And I don't believe that, I mean, we must not focus on the negative, you know. I think all it takes is if I've always asked my friend to,

to do something. And in fact, all my friends are doing different things. One of my friends helps the suicide prevention services in Hong Kong, and I'm involved with that as well. And I think it's a very meaningful thing to do because education has become so competitive now that it gets the children very depressed. And sometimes the parents are pushing them too hard.

2,000 people commit suicide in Hong Kong every year. And half of them are children. And one of my friend is helping, you know, is doing that. And then there are other friends who are doing spinal cord injury. Hmm.

That's right. Yeah. So, I mean, so we're all doing different things to help. Hong Kong is a wonderful... I mean, all my friends are very... We exchange ideas and we support each other. So, I would donate money to the spinal cord injury and then the spinal cord injury would donate money to my scholarship. So, we kind of help each other out and it makes us all feel good. Well, I guess that's a compounding effect of helping each other and lifting society as a whole by itself. And like...

I've always, every time when people interview me about philanthropy, and I said, philanthropy is not about giving and then get something in return, like social climbing or getting honorary fellowship. It's not like that. I mean, you do it because you are happy. It makes you happy inside.

And I always tell my friends because I'm healthy and because I'm happy inside. So I'm healthy. I get sick less than a lot of people. I don't get flus. I don't get, I do get it, but not as often as other people. And then I just, yeah. And I'm like helping my friends to stay young and healthy. I'm over 65 now. And a lot of my friends call

commented like, wow, you're so young for your age. And I was like, because I'm happy from within. So this will give positive energy to my friends and people around me. And I think doing philanthropy gives you this effect more than a recognition.

So I'm going to now switch topic to move from philanthropy to the main subject of the day, which I want to talk about Kowloon Motorbus or KMB in short in Hong Kong. So I want to have this conversation because I'm pretty curious about a very, very large electric bus fleet concept that you are now trying to bring into fruition. So maybe...

just to help my audience, for those who are not familiar with KMB in Hong Kong, can you just talk about overview of the company? You talk already about the history that your grandfather started it and its significance in the Hong Kong transportation landscape. But really, I have also taken a bus on KMB. So my wife works in Hong Kong for five years and she probably have. Oh,

In one way or another, we have touched the bus. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So a few years before COVID, actually, we announced that we were going to replace the whole fleet with electric buses. But because of COVID, the government is now running at a deficit. And because they have to help Cathay Pacific, and they even help KMB because during COVID, nobody came out.

And I refuse to lay off any of my staff, especially the frontline staff, because they are really what contributes to my company. So my job, my most important job in the company is that I actually run all these recreation clubs like singing, marathon, dragon boat, basketball, ping pong. There are 60, football especially, 60 recreational clubs. And we have over, I think, 70,

6,000 members in this recreational club. And the union has only like 2,000. So there are 6,000 happy people versus...

the difficult 2000. So I always, you know, that's how I make my staff happy. And that is my job, you know. And then now we are planning this Chun Ming, the spring dinner, spring lunch. And we're going to, obviously every year we invite all 15,000 of them. And it takes like,

30 of this lunch and dinner to complete the whole event. Now I have to attend all of them. I have to, I can't eat, right? Because I have to go to all the tables and say hello to them and listen to their views, how we can improve and how they can be happier. What KMB is about, it's about people, about the social network.

And KMB, obviously, it's a lot of like my father used to say, oh, you know, KMB won't, before he died, he said, oh, KMB is going to be a passe business. And it turns out that Hong Kong population grows from 3 million the year my father died to now 7.5 million now. And the Chinese government has planned to bring in 2.5 more. So we're going to have 10 million people in Hong Kong.

So we have the railways, the MTR, the underground. But these, they don't go door to door. They are like a big, it's like your body's arteries and veins, right? So we have major arteries, which are the trains. And then the buses are the ones that is the veins, right?

And then the taxis and the minibus, they are the smaller veins. And so this will always... And then we are opening up new towns everywhere to accommodate the new population. And so Kowloon motor bus will always be around, I think.

And in fact, lately, the Abu Dhabi government has chosen us to advise them on the transportation system in Abu Dhabi. So I want to ask you, given that it's now leading the charge to build the largest electric bus fleet in Asia, can you share your vision about what the future of green transit will look like in Hong Kong?

Yeah, we plan to replace the fleet by 2040. We can't scrap all of them now because each bus lasts for 18 years. So we have the depreciation for 18 years. They're all from the UK. All the buses are from the UK, all the double-decker. That's the only country that makes double-decker buses. Same as Singapore, all the double-deckers are from the UK. Because of COVID, when we replace all these diesel buses to electric,

You need a lot more power, a lot more electricity to accommodate this. So the government has to work with us. But today, we can't really see that if we import all these 4,000 electric buses to Hong Kong, there won't be enough charging stations. We have to build a new depot that accommodates electric buses. So in Yuen Long, we're building a seven-storey new depot that can charge 1,000 buses.

every night. But after we built it, the government has to give us the confidence

that they can give us power to charge these buses. So it's no point building a new depot and there's not enough electricity to charge it. So we're delaying it now. But the idea is still the same. We will have to replace it with green energy because it's much better for the environment. So when you think about, say, a hybrid model and then slowly transition towards fully electric...

All the time. Now in China, they have a vehicle, they have a hybrid vehicle that can run for 2,000 kilometers. So literally, you can drive from London to Italy nonstop without refueling, right? So for Hong Kong, I think in a whole year,

I think you only have to refill the tank five times and run for the whole year. So new technology comes along. So what we said five years ago, we have to change our mind. Oh, there might be very good hybrid buses that we don't need to build very expensive new depots and charging stations and all that. So the technology changes all the time, but the idea is

hasn't changed we will go green and that will impact the environment and look at all the weather change and all that is really frightening so you talk about the infrastructure requirements in order to get this full transition to happen so i and and also some of the mental models and what the challenges would look like i'm pretty curious what's the one thing you know about transforming but asia's bus fleets to electric bus feeds that very few people do

We are all going electric. That is the trend, right? Of course, we have to work with the government. We need support from the government. We can't just say, oh, we have a good idea. But sometimes good idea needs to be, you need to have the right timing and the right people, right? So, but the challenge is getting enough power to charge our buses.

at this moment, at this moment, until we get the green light, then we will freely, whenever, every year we have 400, roughly about 400 buses that are obsolete. We scrap 400. Every year we buy four to three to 400 new buses every year. So we'll replace these obsolete ones with electric. Right? But now we have to slow down because

We're worried that there's not enough charging stations for these buses. Which is a reasonable point because even when I was in the logistics space and we were trying to think about trying to have a nine-ton truck,

to charge it actually was almost taking off the entire power grid of the area. So the power question is, I think a lot of people is very naive about thinking just change it to electric, but forgot about all the infrastructure requirements that are actually required to make it work. But then Hong Kong is an ideal place for electric buses and electric vehicles because Hong Kong is a small place.

So we don't really need to like in China or even Singapore is a small place ideal for electric buses. Each one charge can last a whole day because each bus only travels like 400 kilometers a day because we have bus routes and then they go around in a circle and

And then the bus driver, after one circle, he will rest for 15 minutes. We must make him rest for 15 minutes. That is to minimize. I mean, fatigue. Yeah, yeah. Totally understand. More comfortable and for safety of our passenger. We must make them rest for 15 minutes. They have to go to the bathroom. They have to have lunch for one hour.

And all that. So they just go one circle, not literally circle, it could be like that. And they rest for 15 minutes. Sometimes, depending on the traffic, if the traffic is bad, they don't have 15 minutes. But if the traffic is good, then they will have more than 15 minutes. I'm saying on average, 15 minutes rest between each. And then they probably drive 10 circles a day. That's all it is.

And so one charge will last the whole day. And it's the ideal place. Hong Kong is the ideal place for, because we don't have nothing far, like in the UK or even London is huge, right? But Hong Kong is ideal for electric buses. Hmm.

And also currently because of the inflation challenges and I think the road to transition between eco-friendly and even the current fuel for transportation will probably be a difficult one, but it's a kind of you have to do in a slow burn process.

How does KMB, I guess, think about balancing the transition to these eco-friendly vehicles with maintaining also affordable and reliable services for your millions of daily passengers, right? Because your population is increasing by when you took over, it was 3.5. And then after that, it's twice as much. It's going to go to 10 mil, it's 3x from where you begin. Yeah, yeah. So our average bus fare is about $7.

Seven Hong Kong dollars. That is like 70 pence in English pounds. That's right. That's our average, right? I mean, very low city. You know, Hong Kong is a very expensive city. And we're actually helping, you know,

the majority of the people to go to work, to go to school, and to go to market to buy food. And $77 is our average bus fare.

I have another question I thought would be interesting to you. What are the emerging technologies other than electrification of buses that you're going to be most excited about in the coming decade? I could think of one, like, for example, self-driving autonomous

autonomous vehicles, but that will also change the way how you operate as well. There is autonomous and also like drones. Yeah. China, they now have drones that delivers, you know, Taobao and all that, you know, and even people now, they have, I was talking about it to a very good friend last night. They actually tried the drone, you know, instead of a one hour journey, they can do it in five minutes. Yeah.

So we will obviously look into that. But then Hong Kong is so densely populated and we don't have bus lanes for busy roads like Nathan Road, like the Chipsaw. We don't have dedicated bus lanes. So it's very hard for autonomous to buses. There's too many variables, too many rules.

For now, the technology is not there, but it will come. But we have to look after our frontline staff. So we don't, you know, we always tell them they know that they will be replaced one day, but we'll replace our buses the same way. When it's obsolete, when they retire, when a batch retire, then we'll replace it with autonomous. If it is safe enough, then we will consider it, right? But we will not lay off people to...

to just for the sake of being autonomous? I think this is probably the difference between the Asia and the Western world where I think that there is a very humane part of us that even technology transitions happen. I mean, we think of it like a traditional job. I used to head up the post offices in Singapore. I was running the entire business for Singapore Post and we have service ambassadors, but what we are having issues was recruiting new ones.

And as the older ones, we actually recall from retirement. And we always make sure that we always have to be empathetic to inform them that as long as you all work with us at Tenoji, no one would get laid off. Exactly. Yeah, I think this is the kind of social values that we talk about in Asia, where it's not just about the dollars and cents. It's also about the transition of the process.

of how to work with people. - Yeah, you know, the other night we had our annual dinner and then we have the annual presentation award ceremony. I tell you how many people work for, I mean, how many prizes we gave out that night, over 1000. I wanna give you the numbers. It's just to show you how loyal they are. You know, hold on a second, you can,

Yeah, okay. So for long service, 627 people, 35 years, 50 people, 30 years, 81 people, 20 years, 92 people, 10 years, 404 people. Wow. And then we have a star bus captain. That means they're very good at driving.

So 185 people. And then we have the Outstanding Star Award, 73 people. And then we have the Safe and Eco-Driving Outstanding Award. That means they don't accelerate and brakes and, you know, the fuel-saving drivers, 100 people. So, you know, we have, I mean, every year we give out all these prizes. 35 years, 50 people.

Like working for my company for 35 years, you know, as a bus driver, it's no easy job. I totally agree on that. I'm quite curious to know, I think this question comes to my mind, like what kind of partnerships or collaborations that will be very important to advancing KMB's current sustainability goals? And also, how does this roadmap actually align with Hong Kong's broader goals for reducing carbon emissions?

We work with power station, I mean, power supply stations. We cooperate with the Shenzhen bus company.

And we used to advise them, but now they advise us because they have 9,000 electric buses already in Shenzhen. Hong Kong is behind. We used to teach them. Now they're teaching us back. We're buying buses from China. BYD will be providing most of the buses. But of course, we won't rely on just BYD. We'll buy buses from ADL, you know, Alexander Dennis. I think they sell to Singapore as well and ride bus in Belfast.

They all make double-deckers. Thomas Hedewick, the designer, is the one who designed with Right Bus to make these London buses to go back to the original. We cooperate with these companies. And then even 10 years ago, we already started talking about hydrogen fuel cell. So I went to Guildford, ADL's development office in hydrogen. I went to visit them and I was very impressed. But then I said, how do you get hydrogen?

hydrogen to work. I don't believe in dirty hydrogen. I don't want to make hydrogen from

cold burning or fossil fuel. That is no way of making hydrogen. I want clean hydrogen, like from water. But you know how to make hydrogen from water? You need electricity. So why don't you use electricity right away if you want to make hydrogen from electricity? I think it's silly. Use electricity to make hydrogen and we could use electricity right away. Why do we have to...

It's interesting you say this because the Japanese car makers are also betting very heavy on hydrogen fuels. Yeah, but they failed. As a separate paradigm to the electrification, which from what you're saying, from first principles, it's actually easier to just electrify rather than trying to create hydrogen. Exactly. I don't see the point of hydrogen for now until they have a better solution.

to make green hydrogen. I don't want to use dirty hydrogen. There's no good for the environment. And it's stupid because if you use electricity to make hydrogen, why don't you use electricity right away? Right. Okay. So I have a couple of short questions and I just want to have your quick thoughts on that. So what is the one technological shift or paradigm within your industry in the past 12 months that you have changed your mind about something? Oh,

Exactly. You know, changing my mind about the hybrid because two years ago, we're never talking about hydrate that can run for 2000 kilometers. So I might change my mind, but I won't change my mind about going backwards. I'm going forward. Like, you know, we have to be environmental. That is the one key thing that we cannot change, right? We have to be more environmental. But

But of course, you change your mind, you know, like COVID changed everything. I mean, I'm forced to change my mind. I'm forced to change my mind. You know, people, you know how the Hong Kong public don't go out late at night anymore. They were used to going home early. So now we have to provide, you know, we have to promote nightlife in Hong Kong now.

Okay. Then my other question. I'm forced to change my mind. It's not that I changed my mind voluntarily. Yeah, true, true, true. People usually in Hong Kong stay out very late because the apartments are relatively small. So that's why they spend most of their time outside. Because of COVID, they've changed their habit. So what is the one question that you wish more people would ask you about KMB, the current electrification and sustainability efforts?

Oh, they keep asking me, you know, when are we going to have the whole fleet, you know, like replaced? So that's the question you wish people ask you more. Yeah, I wish people would ask more because then I can tell them that it's not up to me. You know, I intend to change everything. First of all, it's good for the company because at the moment we're using diesel and the price of diesel fluctuates and it really affects my annual profit.

Every year, like now we're lucky that the oil price is low, right? But when the oil price goes up to $100 per barrel, we will literally make no money.

It's all depending on the oil price, because the company is very efficient, the way we run it. We are exactly the right people to run. There's no excess. There's no extra cost. The company is running at a very efficient way. The only thing that we cannot control is the oil price. That's why we want to change it to electric. But when you change to electric, the government has to support. They have to have control.

extra power for us to charge our electric buses every night. Right? And so this is the question that I would like people to ask me so I can make them understand why there are only 80 so far, 80 electric buses.

You know, as a prop. No, by the way, with that amount of bus you have, actually 80 is a pretty good number because it takes time as well for the depreciation. I think these people do not appreciate the traditional industries. The timescale is not like when you have a mobile app or iPhone, you just press a button and everything changes. It doesn't work that way. Atoms are much more difficult to navigate than bits.

So my traditional closing question then, what does great look like for KMB in the next decade? I'm optimistic, obviously. I'm the fourth generation. My son will be the fifth generation. As I said, not just Hong Kong is expanding to 1 to 10 million people. We have the Greater Bay Area. And there will be 100 million people in the Greater Bay Area.

So I don't really see, there will always be new towns, new, I mean, there will always be a town that the train takes a long time to get there, right? You have to build the railways and you have, and then they don't go door to door, right? So, and then also the ageing population,

in Hong Kong same as everywhere I don't know about Singapore similar situation I think yeah we don't have enough young I mean old people there are more and more old people they don't need to go to work in a hurry like they don't need to hop into the to the underground you know you get on a bus and it goes and brings you there you are

hardly any walking. But if you go in the underground, you have to go up and down the stairs. It's very hard for the elderly people. Yeah, I think that's definitely the correct...

point because I've seen this also with my mom in her late 80s and it's actually difficult to go to a MRT or the equivalent in Singapore because it's long walk and a kneecap and she would rather prefer to take a bus which is actually the bus stop is just right next door and then she can get to the point of where she wants to go from point A to point B in a more comfortable way. And then we have new ideas like having a packed bus

We don't want to mix pets with normal passengers because some passengers may be worried about a snake or a lizard or whatever, right? But if you have a dedicated pet bus route, you go to Hong Kong 01 website and you can see my interview there. And we have dedicated bus routes for pets because in Hong Kong, pet owners have to call an Uber or a taxi, but sometimes they reject them because they don't want pets.

They worry that they might dirty, make the bus or the seats dirty or something. But I went on these buses and usually pet owners are very considerate. They will always make the dog, you know, do their business before they get on the bus. And then they always carry them and they're very clean and they carry all the tissues in their backpack and the snacks and everything. So, you know, so I have no worry about that.

And we're providing this service. And also, we have one bus lane. Only women bus drivers are running it. Wow. We want to promote more like woman power, you know, for our society. And in fact, 80% of my department heads are ladies. Not that I'm deliberately choosing ladies to be our department heads, but because their work, they perform well. So they get the job.

So William, many thanks for coming on the show. Really learned a lot about your philanthropic work and also the challenges of even thinking about electrification of bus fleets of that kind of scale that you are operating in. So in closing, I have two quick questions. My first question is any recommendations that have inspired you recently?

In terms of what? Books, you know, any movies or even something that you read or something that you hear that inspired you. Every day is something...

I will get inspired every day, like by little small things, like totally unrelated things. Like when I look at a show window and then it will inspire me to do something for my bus company. You know, it's like I can't think of a TV show that that has inspired me. Oh, you know, like not today, but obviously the paid forward movies.

inspired me to make my forward. So that is an inspiration from something totally unrelated. And it turns into, you know, it's actually, I've seen the result now because there are actually, you know, many scholars, you know, like second generation scholars from this scholarship, which are paid for by them.

you know, and it's a wonderful network. Like last month, I was looked after by my scholars. How did my audience find you then?

how do my audience find you your website i know i actually went to your personal website william louis website right they can find me on youtube and they can go to kmb.com and they can find me okay you can definitely find this show on everywhere from youtube to spotify and of course tweet to us

on everything. We'll be happy to hear more feedback for the show. And once again, William, many thanks for coming on the show and hopefully catch up with you when I'm in Hong Kong. I like your show because you're very natural and looking at your background is natural. It's not like you have to have a fantastic and fancy background and lighting. This is just the most important thing. We Hong Kong Chinese people, Singaporean people, we go for content. We go to a restaurant, we eat good food. We don't eat decorations.

right so this is what i like about your show thank you so much and i will definitely talk again thank you thank you very much