Wealth Talk With Paul Morris
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Welcome to the All In Podcast. I'm your host, Rod Watson. I'm a proud father, husband, son, former athlete, and business owner of the LA VIP agent team. The All In Podcast is a dynamic audio experience where we interview the brightest minds in sports, entertainment, and business. Join me as I host real conversations with industry elite top performers that foster growth and development, which leads to success in life and business for our listeners.

Being all in is my mantra and it's what I live by. I hope that you find value in this podcast and I look forward to connecting with you on the other side. Let's go.

All right, guys, welcome to the All In Podcast. I'm your host, Rod Watson, and I'm here today with our special guest, Paul Morris, founder of Keller Williams Beverly Hills, also author of New York Times bestseller, Wealth Can't Wait, which is actually one of my favorite reads. Former Cornell Law School grad, also graduated from Oxford with a master's degree and undergraduate at University of Pittsburgh. Thanks for coming on today, Paul. It's great to have you.

been the inspiration of my life. And this is going to be an unscripted conversation. I've got quite a few questions for you that we're going to discuss around wealth building, which is the topic of this conversation, which is really what you talk about in your book. But do you mind giving our listeners a little bit of background about who Paul Morris is, where you're from, and then what led you to writing the book Wealth Can't Wait?

I grew up in Pittsburgh and as we see more and more today, you know, how much can shape you as a kid, right? Correct. My dad was really would sort of be two generations older than me because he had me late in life. So if he were alive, he'd be over 100.

years old now. He grew up during the Great Depression. He moved out of his house at 16 and lived in a tent camp. He was a Boy Scout, lived in a tent camp and rode his bicycle to school, to high school. That was as far as his education went. He was in a parking garage business. He taught a lot of lessons, you know, hard work,

determination. He did not work smart though. He just worked hard. And I watched how hard he worked and it was a good lesson, but I also knew that I wanted to work smarter. Everything for him was getting above the poverty line or making sure, and let me be clear, we were above the poverty line, but making sure that we stayed there. He was very fearful of financial collapse and

you know, having lived through the depression. So, you know, this is what I sort of brought to the table. I did not know anything about sales, that sales was even a possibility because again, like, what are you exposed to when you're a kid? I worked in a parking garage and we serviced the building that had doctors. And so we saw doctors driving fancy cars and, and you know, had high status. It's no wonder there were five of us, three were doctors, you know? So we,

we saw education as a way out. And I was not a good student because I was not, I was a successful student, but I wasn't a good student because I couldn't sit still. It's very common. It's simple. Yeah. I went through the same thing. They call me hyperactive. Yeah, that's right. So, and you know, if I could throw out one piece of advice to your listeners, just to begin with,

And that is get a behavioral analysis assessment. The upside of your upside is always going to be greater than the upside of your downside. And so what that means is like find your strengths. OK, getting some outside assessment of what this is, what my upsides are, this is what my weaknesses are. And I'd say go way hard, go hardcore at your at your strengths.

Well, it's interesting. You shared a couple of things I want to touch on. You know, you talked about growing up, you know, your dad's situation growing up through the Great Depression. And those times are really, really tough and challenging times. You know, they didn't have the Internet and the resources that we have today where someone can go out and become a millionaire overnight. Like you literally had to put a lot of work in. You had to be fortunate, as you stated, to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth or just so happened to be fortunate enough that whatever you were working on during those times really made it big.

because you had to have money to make things happen. And that's typically always the case, but also,

think about you sharing how education was the way out. Now let's flip that to someone like myself, Rod Watson, who grew up in the South. Both my parents got divorced early and unfortunately, I was introduced to the drug trade. And a lot of kids who grew up in my community watched our community transformed from being somewhat of a stable middle-class black community to all of a sudden, it's drugs, it's crime, you can't go outside after a certain time. And the way out for us was playing sports.

playing basketball. That was that way out because we didn't know investors, real estate agents or bankers or attorneys and things that just was not in our general scope and we didn't have access to those things. So when you think about kids like myself, how we grew up and you think about those experiences, how you grew up and your dad, we both had similar experiences growing up around poverty and limited access to wealth and opportunity.

So my question next is that when someone's growing up in those environments like you and I have, what are those actionable steps that they can be taking on the pathway to building wealth? Because one, oftentimes you think, well, I got to have all this money to even amass wealth. I got to have these economic opportunities. And when you don't see that in front of you, you tend to just say, well, let me just focus on what I have access to. How can people today, regardless of where you are in life,

really start to build that foundation towards actionable steps to building wealth. That question is going to open up the door for us to really to contribute to your audience. So just by way of example, I did not grow up poor. Okay. Interesting. Okay. My brothers and sisters, cause I'm way younger, right? They grew up poor. Okay. But the time, like I was around that, you know, my parents had a real stable foundation. Now we really

did not have one luxury. I mean, not one luxury, but we also didn't have one need. So let's be clear about that. But here's the thing. And this is really a testament to you really only, it doesn't matter what environment you grew up in. There was not, for whatever reason, like who my parents were or who they were friends with or whatever, there was not a salesperson in sight. My dad did not have one friend that was a salesperson. There were business owners, so small business owners. So I saw that.

There were professionals, there were sign painters, just no sales people. The only sales person I knew was, I'll really date myself, was a fuller brush man and he would come by and sell soap and brushes door to door and I'm like, "Okay, well I don't want to do that." So the direct answer to your question is find a role model, find someone that

is doing something that you find interesting and motivating. We can all push ourselves to do things that we don't want to do. You can do the job that you don't want to do. You can do it at a high level, but that takes a lot of constitutional effort, effort from inside. Conversely, if you find something you love doing, now you throw all that effort at it and it doesn't take the constitutional effort.

Find things that you could be passionate about because if you could do something you're passionate about, you're going to be maybe two, three, five times more productive because you don't have to take the energy to force yourself to do it. Okay. So you find something you're passionate about. Generally what you're passionate about, you're, you're naturally good at. So,

With the advent of the internet, you know, we have, we have kids have access to all sorts of things, you know, all sorts of different careers. I don't just see like, Oh, you know, I mean, I was a little, my screen views like this, right? I see like what's in front of me, you know, my dad does this, you know, the neighbor does that. That's the salesman I know comes to the door selling brushes. You know, you get on Instagram as kids are, you know, deep in, you see people doing a lot of things now. Yeah. Um,

So, so the path to the path from there. Okay. And I'm just going to say this. Okay. Uh,

One of my good friends came from a very, very poor background and has, you know, like multiple degrees, science, math. And I met him in the UCLA MBA program where I'm a mentor. Very good friend. Came from nothing. He wrote a great book. So he was able to find a path even through education. He was able to get himself highly educated coming from nowhere. Those opportunities exist today.

Now, if you're not somebody that has that behavioral style, if their demeanor is calm, they could be a good student. You know, if they're like you said, when you were young, you're hyperactive, you're all over the map. I'm like, it doesn't mean you can't learn.

You could probably learn at a super high level, but it's very hard to learn sitting in a classroom. Very hard to learn reading a textbook. Okay? So there are paths from absolute impoverished beginnings all the way out. One of the keys to that is to find a mentor. And by the way, if you don't even feel like you have the means to find or I would say attract a mentor,

you can have a mentor that doesn't know you, okay? You just look at like, okay, so this person did this and then they did that and then they did this other thing and now they're doing this. That's gonna be the gateway to success.

You talk about that passion and having a strong desire for whatever it is you want to be or you want to achieve in life. And I can attest that when you talk about outworking someone, the only way you're going to really do that is if you have a strong motivation to succeed at what you do. So some examples, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, right? Or it could be Elon Musk, I think is a great example. He got laughed at about his ideas and his concepts of bringing the Tesla vehicle out and

You know like we can go on and on about those great examples of individuals that have passion But along the way as you're going through that process It's not just about the money and the wealth building although I think that the end game and it's important I think it's also important as you stated to recognize the passion that you have and and the drive but also Your ability your strengths. What are you really really good at so athletes today and even in the past, you know that the

So many of them have allowed financial advisors or firms to advise them when it comes to developing wealth or where to invest their money. But then when you look at the statistic over the last two decades, 70% of these players go broke at the end of their careers, right? And they say, well, hey, I put my money with the top wealth management firms, right? And then it goes back to what you just shared. It's like, how much research did you really put into those firms? Like how many individuals are that were players that they really not just managed their money,

that is led to those individuals having true ultimate success when it comes to wealth building because if someone makes 20 30 million dollars a year one would say there's no way in hell they should be broke 10 years from now right and it happens it can repeatedly happens and these players are at some of the top wealth management firms in the nation and yet they're still going broke what is your response to that and what is your viewpoint on that one and then second

What percentage of a player is making $5, $10, $20 million a year? Should that player be putting 30% of that income into real estate, 20% of that income into real estate? Because those are tangibles that cannot be taken away. What percentage would you say a player should be investing of that income in regards to building wealth?

Here's the thing. If done right, and it's not that hard to do it right. I see a lot of people fail, but it's not that hard to get it right. If done right, real estate is generational wealth.

The downside is that they're not like they're not grand slams, you know, right? I would do it the inverse almost again. Now we're going to talk about like, hey, it's my brother. It's my like I have the duty and care and love to take care of this person's money as if it's my own.

you know, a big chunk of money. I would put 10%, 20% at most in non-real estate assets. You know, I certainly would do a, I would do at least 10% in a

and sort of a fund that covers the whole stock market so you get the benefit of like an S&P index. I happen to think the stock market is way overpriced right now. I would never tell my brother to put 10% in an S&P index right now. - I agree, yeah. - But over time, that's what I would do.

And, you know, if we had to do it, I would say put 2% of your net worth in the S&P index and put 2% a year over the next five years or 10 years. And then that way you get what they call cost basis averaging or something like that. It's a fancy word, but it just basically means if you invest a little bit every year over time, you're going to, you will buy.

by definition, be investing at the top of the market, at the bottom of the market, the middle of the market. If you put it all in at once, you're nervous that I put it in at top or bottom. - Yeah. - Here's the way I look at it. And I'm gonna tell you what my niece did, okay? Because it's interesting. - Yeah. - So she's not working and I said, "Hey, so what's your plan to get a job now?" She goes, "Well, I don't really, I don't have a plan." I go, "Oh, okay."

"Why is that? What's your plan about making a living?" She goes, "Well, I don't think I have to." I go, "Oh, that's interesting. Tell me more." She goes, "Well, I'm managing my own portfolio." And I'm like, "Hmm, now we're getting into strange territory because I know that she inherited 140 grand a few years ago. That seems like that would be the sum total of her portfolio." I go, "Oh, what do you mean portfolio? Oh, my stock money. Okay, well, what's that worth?" She said, "400 and something thousand dollars."

I went, wow. Like number one, I'm thinking, is that true? You know, number two, I'm like, okay, so it is true. I'm like, okay, so how did that happen? And she said, well, you know, I've been investing in, I'm investing in the stuff I'm interested in. I'm investing in Apple and Tesla and this stuff. And I'm like, and now I do the math and the timing. I'm like, wow, if you really had 140 grand two, three years ago, you invested in Apple and Tesla or whatever, you really could have $400,000 now.

Now listen to this. Let's pretend that was a money manager and not my niece and they had that kind of a track record. Would I go and hand them my money? The answer is absolutely not. Okay. Because

That to me is, you can say she's smart. I agree with you. She is smart. That's good timing. So you got to get the good time. And now she has the false belief that she knows what she's doing because of the good timing. I'm 55. I've been through cycles. One of the smartest people on the planet. I'm lucky to have him as a friend.

was telling me that he's gonna be a day trader. I mean, he's math and science smart. He's like, "Yeah, I'm gonna be a day trader because my job as a professor, you know, is paying practically nothing and I'm making all this money in the stock market." You know, he was doing research and all this kind of stuff. And then he's picking a stock and then the stock goes up. But it's not because of the research, it's because the market goes up. Then when the market crashes, you find all these geniuses are suddenly out of the market, right? So it was the market.

And the research he was doing was actually just fooling himself, right? Because he could have thrown darts at a dartboard, it would have gone up the same.

Maybe he did a little better, but it wasn't the skill as much as it was that. So I grew up in Pittsburgh. I'm 55 years old. The blue chip stocks when I was a kid were United States Steel, either non-existent or I don't know what they do. Okay. I mean, that was one of the top corporations. That was like Apple. So you got, you know, like General Electric. Sorry, I don't know where General Electric is. I don't follow the stock market, but it's not Google. Yeah.

30, 40 years ago, General Electric was Google. Okay. So I truly do not know. I really do not know where Apple and where Google are going to be 20, 30 years from now or 10 years from now or five years from now or seven years from now.

but I just closed on two properties. One is a triplex in Culver City, another is four units in West Hollywood, and I closed during the pandemic, okay? So I'm being, am I buying like crazy now? No, I'm only buying super careful right now. If you say to me, Paul, where will those properties be 20, 30 years from now? And the truth is, I don't know, okay? Because none of us know. However-

In the history of time, big blue chip stocks have come and gone and will continue to come and go as they get. They don't innovate. Somebody out invents them. Somebody out thinks them. Products change. Internet was developed differently. People always need a place to live. And in the nice areas where demand continues to drive up, up, up,

you just don't lose over a long period of time. So I would put carefully put 80% into real estate. I just would.

And I'd put 20% into a diversification, into like a stock fund. So it's not tied to any particular stocks. That's the sort of thing. And I might leave 10% out because here's the other thing. If you're a famous person and somebody wants to say to you, hey, I've got this new idea at Snapchat or I've got this new product, it's whatever. We want to attach your name to that. Now you're investing some of the energy

Some of the brand equity that you have, not your cash money. Now I do believe that people only have a certain amount of brand equity. So the really smartest players, right? They're not

hawking every product that wants their name because every product wants their name. You'd have LeBron with like 10,000 endorsements and then his endorsement wouldn't mean anything. So there's careful way. That's an equity too. And you don't want to just throw it around. But I would absolutely do some of those swing at the fence kind of deals, not with my money, but with my brand equity.

if you want to talk wealth preservation for a minute, I have been the guy that I was not the star athlete that suddenly got money that did it up. But, you know, I, I was the only family member that made any money, you know, now I have, you know, my brother's a doctor and he's does great. And he watches his money carefully. He does great. You know, I'm not saying that, but I was, I was the only one that made money.

made money like I made, you know, like I'm making. And so you get the hands out, you know, Hey, you know, help me with this. Help me with that. Yeah. I had a hard time with it. Okay. And I know that players have a hard time with it. Uh, and I've learned from really amazingly wealthy people how to avoid that.

do you think that's worth talking about real quick absolutely yeah because i believe that whether it's the players or it's yourself i've experienced it when i started making money and it's tough it's really challenging so yeah let's definitely have that conversation on your perspective and your your experiences in dealing with this because players and wealthy people as well deal with it a lot i had a really a best friend who got into a lot of trouble i didn't know he was in trouble and he was just pleading for money from everybody i didn't know that

and he came to me and needed money. I actually went to the bank and I borrowed the five or so. I'm like, I don't have that money, but you know, I'll take this loan out for you. Just you pay it back. Let's just say it was 10 grand. Of course, I got a few payments and I never got any more payments. Then I bumped into a friend of mine that was really wealthy. Yeah, really wealthy. And, you know, they're telling you the whole story. Like my whole world's going to collapse if you don't give me this money. It's this whole disaster. And my friend had real money.

Gave him $1,000. I'm like, how did you get away with $1,000? My friend couldn't say, I don't have the money. He goes to that guy. He's like, hey, man, I need a short loan, short term loan for, you know, 20 grand or whatever it was that tells him all this stuff. He goes, I'm not doing it. He goes, here's what I will do today. I will write you a check for $1,000 right now.

and here's what we're going to do with that one thousand dollars he's like oh you know i i one thousand i'll pay i'll pay you back i'll pay because here's the deal that one thousand dollars is a gift you take the thousand dollars never pay me back i'll never ask you for it no no i'm gonna pay you back he goes okay fine take the one thousand dollars if you pay me back your credit with me will always be good you could borrow a thousand dollars from me whenever you want drop of a hat if

"You don't pay me back, I will never ask you for it again. "We will remain the same friends forever, "but do not ever ask me for money again." And let me get my secretary. "Hey George, come here, write this guy a check. "I want a check for $1,000 prepared so I can sign it." And he shoot him out. I mean, the guy's like, he's like, "You are not getting 10 grand." - But I'll give you 1,000. - So the guy's like, "All right, I'll take 1,000." So that's one way. Another thing is,

I've learned to know that the emergency is never really an emergency. Anytime it's an emergency, the first thing I say is they're like, oh, you know, it's an absolute emergency. All I need is five grand. It's an emergency. I go, well, okay, here's the deal. I cannot get you money. First of all, the answer is not yes. But whatever it is, I need a week no matter what. And they go, no, no, no, I need it now. I need it now. Right?

Today it's not happening. I need a week. Why? Why is it going to take a week? I'm like, that's come on now. That's not getting into my business. Okay. You're coming here asking me for money. I didn't even say yes yet. Yeah. Okay.

But I'm telling you, I may give you something I may not, but it's going to have to take a week. So I take the emergency right out of it. And they really are in an emergency, but it's some kind of crazy emergency that they're not telling me about. I've already rendered myself useless to them in an emergency because it was really what they said it was for. They could wait a week. They could wait a week. That's right. They're like, oh, I need to do whatever. I need to make this car payment. I need to, you know, whatever. I'm like, well, it'll all work in a week. Yeah.

Yeah. And they're like, oh, well, let me invent new reasons why a week can't happen. It doesn't matter because nothing's happening for a week. The other one was I was taking a lot of orders and a lot of, especially friends, you know, friends that guilt you or close friends, family that guilt you. And it's like friends and family go,

A lot of people are telling me what to do. A lot of people are telling me what I should do. A lot of people are telling me what to do for them and all that kind of stuff. And I turn around, it took me an embarrassing 20 years to realize that these people are not working. Now, I knew they weren't working. It's not a secret that my cousin sits at the coffee bean eight hours a day. That's not a secret. I know where to find him. I go to the coffee. You can pull up and find him. Right. There he is. Okay.

But I didn't put the obvious two plus two to four and I go, hey, you know what? Get a job and then let's talk about me helping you. The first order of business. I'm not going to help you with your rent if you're not working. I've learned similar. The whole thing I've learned with that when it comes to family, friends, and I know that there are hardships and I endure mine and I have people help me out during that period of time. But

for me it's always been like never lend out more than what you you know you're you're going to miss meaning if i know 10 grand is gonna hurt me and i don't get that that is probable i'm not gonna get that 10 grand back i'll say you know like you're got you got you know gentlemen that you share here's 1500 here's a thousand and i've i've done every relative's wife said don't even worry about paying me back because it takes away that pressure that awkwardness of

you know having to approach them or ask them hey are you going to pay me back on wednesday night and it's like look here's a thousand here's 500 or here's two thousand

you don't have to pay me back, but don't ask me for any more money. This is it, you know, in that type of situation. And I've had some that pay me back and others that didn't, and it's fine because I wasn't expecting it. But, you know, there's that limit. Like I'll say this is the max I know that I can give without missing it, and I don't expect to get it back. And I think, you know, for athletes and even with people for money, but athletes in particular, it's really tough because, you know, you got mom and dads that have been waiting for their kids to hit the jackpot.

And they're giving their kids these guilt trips about why you should be buying me a house or getting me this car. And it's like, wait a minute, you have how many years on this earth to get your shit in order? And you're waiting for your 18-year-old or 19-year-old or 22-year-old kid to sign a max contract and take care of you? You know, it's like these are the realities that players have to deal with. And when you look at...

When you talk about preservation of wealth, that is the fastest way to go in the opposite direction of preserving wealth. I mean, and that's a reality that all too often in African-American community that we have to deal with because we come from such poverty situations and lack of financial resources and also the lack of motivation to even learn shit. You know, it's crazy. Like,

How long do you want to stand this position thinking or waiting for someone to give you something? And when you see somebody that's bust their ass to get it, you think they're just supposed to give it to you. And they're like, it doesn't work like that. And so, so many,

individuals that come from my culture are faced with that one thing of like feeling as if I've got to take care of all of my family or these individuals in my family because they were there for me. It's like if somebody loves you, they're going to be there for you at the end of the day, but it doesn't mean you owe them a house or a car. I have a guy I shudder to call him a mentor because he has really, because he's not nice. You know, he's not nice to me. He's not nice to anybody that I can tell.

But I came in contact with him professionally and he continues to give me very valuable advice. I have to put my ego aside because he cannot give me a piece of advice without the slap in the face and I don't like it. But the advice is so good I go for it anyway sometimes. And one of the things he said to me, he's never told me anything that, he's told me a lot of great life lessons, none of them have been fun.

Because that's not who he is. And one of the things he said to me about this particular subject is he said, well, you know, well, I don't know. Okay. So I feel bad already. They resent you, whether you give them the money or not. And I was just like, again, I'm sorry, right? If I'm supposed to be an expert at stuff and there's people listening to this and be like, duh. I mean, that's who we are as human beings on this earth is we, we, I don't care how advanced you are.

There are blind spots. There are stuff that there's a, the amount of stuff that I don't know and the life lessons that I could learn. I have a, I have life lessons right now while I'm talking to Rod, I'm taking notes down. Rod's like, Oh, Paul showed me this. I'm like,

wait, I did? Let me remember this to do this again. And so they resent you whether you give them money or not. That's a terrible place, right? But it is the baseline and it is true. And the reason why, so if you're going to give them the money because they'll resent you if you don't, just know they will resent you if you do. Now, there are ways to do it, okay? And so

and I'll be super quick about it. We could do a whole segment on it for sure. But a fabulously wealthy person who's in this mastermind group that I'm with, fabulously wealthy, hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. And then he has siblings that don't have money. And he said, well, before I learned this lesson,

I gave them $2 million for a film project, which then went way over budget. And then I ended up giving them another $3 million for the film project. And then when they needed more money, I just said, "Absolutely no." And he said, "To this day,

They will tell anybody they meet, because they actually believe this in their heart of hearts. They believe that they are not famous movie producers and filmmakers because I would not lend them one more dollar after the $5 million. I caused the demise of their project.

And so he could have written them off. By the way, that destroyed their relationship for years. Brothers that he really cared about and wanted a good relationship with. It destroyed their relationship for years. And then after the fact, when he finally like got wise and learned this life lesson is he said it was taking a piece that you said.

And that is don't give what you can't just give without ever missing. And that includes what you could afford, but also what you're comfortable with. That's right. So maybe you could afford to give your friend 10 G's, but like, it'll make you feel bad. Yeah. What, what did you afford and what won't make you feel bad? You go $500. Well, that's what you should give, right? It doesn't matter what you afford. So he sort of did that analysis. He called them. He said, I want you to bring $500.

I want you to come see me in my accountant. I want you to bring every bill for your lifestyle for the last 12 months. Everything you've spent, because I'm going to help you with it. So I want you to bring everything. One brother came in and had, I think, $80,000. And he's working. He's working. He's making a living. He's probably making $90,000. He's got $80,000 worth of bills. Okay. And has a family. And they live a modest lifestyle. And he's got $80,000 in bills.

The other brother came in and I think he had like $120,000 worth of bills. But again, it depends, right? If you're making 300 and you got $120,000 worth of bills, that's okay, right? So forget about what they do. I think one of them was working, one of them sort of wasn't, but that was their lifestyle. And this guy, like I say, he has hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. He could afford to buy him a $5 million house. He could afford to whatever, buy him a fancy car.

But he got in that jackpot with them on the movie deal that wrecked their relationship for years. He called them in and he said, okay. And he had his accountant go through all the expenses, verify the expenses. He goes, okay, 80 grand. And maybe the other was 110 grand. He goes, from right now until the time I die, my accountant is going to write you a check every month.

that's 1/12 of 80 grand, or I'll do the easy math, it says 120 grand. My accountant is going from today until the day I die, you're gonna get a check for 10 grand a month because that's what he felt good about contributing. And they didn't even ask. And he said, "But here's the thing." And this is also the important part because it sets the boundary and the expectation. He said, "Here's the thing, don't ever ask me for another dollar."

And they're like, wow, this is so generous. They didn't even ask for it. Oh my gosh, this is wonderful. This is great. And if you don't do the second step, then they're like, okay, well, it's three years later. I need a cost of living increase. I need a whatever. I need, right? So he said, now this is already 10 years ago. Things have gotten more expensive. It doesn't matter. He said, you will get 10,000 a month from today until I die. No questions asked. No, you can come babysit the grandkids. You can

You can come hang out with me. Or you can ignore me for the rest of your life. You can take my name and my number, throw it in the drain, flush it, never do anything except for collect your check. It's all good. There are zero strings. But if you ask me for $1, that money will go to zero immediately forever. Are we clear?

And that's the way he handled it. So he got out ahead of it. So, for example, when you give me the idea of like, so now you've got this player that's busted his hump for all these years and now their parents are their hands out. One way to deal with it is you don't have to do it. You don't have to do anything. Take the obligation away. What will feel good in your heart?

I think that's spot on. And I think, you know, when you set those boundaries is really what it comes down to, right? You know, setting those boundaries and sticking with it and not having this feeling of guilt or anxiety about should I do more or they're asking me for more or leaving the door open for them to come and ask. Yeah. You leave that door open guaranteed. They will come back to it at some particular point in time and asking for more. And the one thing that I found to be common amongst a lot of the players is

is that you're going to have those individuals coming and hitting you up, you know, and you're going to have those people that are going to, you know,

you know, it's an emergency. They're going to try you and they're going to try and make you feel bad. And one of the things I realized is that regardless if you give it to them or not, like you said, they're either going to resent you or they're going to be mad for the fact that they had to come and ask you for the money. And if you didn't give it to them, they're going to be pissed. And if you do give it to them, you didn't give them enough. You know what I mean? And so they're never going to be happy is what I'm saying. It's never going to be a situation where that's going to solve the problem, giving them money. Right. I think setting the boundaries and as you stated, setting the boundaries and really, you know,

emphasizing that, hey, this is the terms and I'm not going to change my mind on these terms. So you can pretty much take it or leave it. And, you know, we're good after that going forward. I had one player I was really cool with and still am to this day. He shared something rather interesting to me. Rather than giving his family members money, what he did was is he paid off all of their debt and he sent their kids to private school.

And that was, that was his, that was his agreement. And that was his terms. I'll pay off all your debt and send your kids to private school, but I'm not giving you money, you know? And it worked, it worked well. And he put all his nieces and nephews through private school and he paid off their parents' debt. And, you know, for him, he looked back on that and he was like, you know, if I wouldn't have done, if I would have done the opposite,

He was like, I may not have had the money that I have today if I would have committed to just giving them money on a regular basis. And, you know, that's the hard part is really drawing the lines. And I know that, you know, for players and even for people who come from less fortunate situations, once you get that money, you oftentimes have that guilt of feeling like,

I should be helping everybody else too, because they went through similar experiences or they, they were down with me when I didn't have money. And that's not necessarily the case. I mean, it's always great to help people, but it should be on your terms and in a manner in which you're comfortable with as you just shared. And the question I always ask myself is, and sorry, it's another Ricky, Ricky question is, you know, no apologies. It's a, it's a Ricky question. Yeah. You know, how, how,

What would it look like for this to feel good for me? Right? Yeah. So, you know, and the answer might be, there is no answer, in which case I don't do it. Yeah. You know, when the friend came to me and said, Hey, I, you know, I need 10 grand. What would it look like for this to feel good for me? You know? Yeah.

I don't know. I probably would have made the mistake anyway, because it did feel good to me at the time, you know, but, but that's the question. It's not going to solve that problem in particular, but it does solve a lot of other ones. And, and, and, and just taking all the guilt and obligation out of it. You know, I, I was a more than an uncle to this particular niece and, and her dad died early.

Her mom is my sister and my sister didn't take good care of the kids. That's just a fact. So I was more than an uncle to her anyway. In fact, I was her legal guardian until she was 18.

And so there is a very special relationship. And she also had a special ability to guilt me and would say like, well, you're like, you're more than an uncle. You're more like, you're more like my dad, you're more whatever. And I had to learn into it to the point where I could have a conversation, which a little, it's like a little splash of water on the face of the shocker at first. But I said, Hey, listen, here's the facts. The facts are I'm not your dad.

Yeah. And here's another fact, which doesn't necessarily sound that great, but I don't want to be your dad. Okay. But don't be offended because you're in your twenties now and you and I can create a relationship together that feels good for both of us. We, the world is unlimited. The relationship that you and I could have together is unlimited what we could do.

But it's going to be by design and it's going to be what works for you and what works for me. Exactly. OK. And so, you know, so that's that's just, you know, and then she was like, oh, OK. So what so what does that look like? You know, just handing money out while you're not working. That doesn't feel good to me.

If I knew you were working hard or whatever, you need a little extra money. That actually feels good for me. I'm not, I'm not setting rules for somebody else. That's not what I think somebody else should do. I'm just saying, look at what would really feel good for you. For me, uh,

I just realized that number one, asking for the handout and in a way giving a handout is easier than feeling the guilt that you really need to look at that. And that's your own problem, right? And by the way, big problem for me. Again, I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. And then the converse is what would make it feel good. And I just realized, wow, none of these people are working. Another thing is,

when people ask me for something this goes right back to the uh it goes back to the uh to the mentor thing and it goes back to the thing i said about a therapist right the therapist's rule is don't don't help a client more than they're willing to help themselves so in the organization i run

There are 3,000 Realtors that work in the offices that I own. You could say that work for me. Any number of those would want to have a meeting with me or would want to have lunch with me or would want to have whatever. And I kind of sort of want to have lunch and a meeting with all of them, but I can't do that because that would crush the time. And so

The other experience that I had is I used to walk around if you said, hey, Paul, what are your core values? One of my core values was helping others. Right. But then I would take these meetings. See, I had to learn this along the way. And it was painful because one of my core values was helping other people. But I at least was honest with myself.

And I would go to a meeting, a half hour meeting with a realtor. And they would just tell me all the reasons why they weren't successful and all the bad stuff that happened to them. And they just had a divorce and they just did it. And then they were taking care of their ill mother and you know, right. And all this stuff.

And 25 minutes into it, they hadn't asked me a question yet. And I'm like, I got to go in five minutes. Like, you know, and I feel bad for the person. And, you know, and then I walk out of the meeting and then I go, I got to go in five minutes, but let me see if I can give you some advice in five minutes. And then whatever piece of advice I give them, they tell me why they can't do it. Right. It goes over. It's like 45 minutes. Now I've spent 20 minutes telling them advice. Every time I tell them something, they tell me why they can't do it.

And then I walk out of the meeting and I'm like, that was awful. Right. And I, after having several meetings like that, I looked at myself in the mirror and I go, you know, I think it's not true. I think one of my core values of wanting to help people, I think it's just not true. Like I actually hate helping people, you know, but at least, at least I was like honest to my heart.

So I don't say like, I am a bad person. I'm just saying like, this is the way I, like truly honestly, this is the way I'm feeling. Let me look at this. Instead of hiding the feeling, 'cause you know, 20 years ago I'd be like, oh well, hey that didn't feel good, but I'm gonna pretend it did and I'm gonna go on to my next, you know, trying to help somebody meeting. And then I finally figured out that I was helping people more than they would help themselves. So now when I have 3,000 realtors, if somebody wants to have a meeting with me, I'll give them a, this is a trick, right? This is a trick that I'm telling you is because

you know, your listeners, if your listeners have attained a certain amount of wealth or a certain amount of status or whatever, and all these people want their time or want their money or whatever, I give them an assignment first. Hey, I want to meet with you. Okay, great. What are we going to meet about? Oh, I want to talk about my real estate business, right? That's what this woman said, who then came in and complained for 25 minutes, right? I go, okay, great. So hey, before our meeting, send me your business plan. Yeah. Oh, what do you mean?

I don't have a business plan. Oh, okay. That's cool. No problem. So watch this YouTube video. It'll tell you exactly how to do a real estate business plan. And then when you're done watching that YouTube, then go ahead and draft the business plan and then send it to me and then we'll set up the 25 minutes. And make sure you have a list of 20 questions you want to ask when you get here. Okay?

I get almost no requests anymore. The word must have gotten out because I used to get all these requests, but then when I have the request, I give them the homework assignment. But by the way, the homework assignment is not to give them something to do. I know they won't do so that they won't come meet with me. The homework assignment is designed to help them. And if they're not even going to do that, then I'm not going to be able to, you know, I'm not going to be able to help them.

Yeah, that makes sense. And it's going to be a bad experience for me. Somebody else has more patience or more time or whatever. You could take a meeting like that. I'm not their therapist, right? So it's like, but I've already decided that. Some people are good at that. Like, oh, wow, your mother's not well. I'm sorry to hear that. I mean, am I like a terrible person? I'm doing this on a podcast saying like, I don't care about the woman's mom not being well. Like I do, but here's the thing. I have my own family and my own friends.

I have a little bit of bandwidth where I can help this person. Her family and her network and her support group will be better off serve her getting that advice there. The advice that I could give her is how to drive a real estate business. And if that's not what you want to talk about, if you're not willing to do a little bit of effort here or there to do that, then so be it. Yeah.

Well, in closing, and those are great valid points. And in closing, and we've been on and we've had a great discussion. I've enjoyed it and I can go on and on, but I know we're going to have to get off here pretty soon. So in closing, you're running one of the most profitable by far. We're doing my research, if I'm correct, the number one profitable Keller Williams office in the United States, right? Or is it just California? So my offices together are,

Keller Williams Real Estate is the largest, it's now the largest real estate sales company in the world. And my offices for living makes us the second largest Keller Williams franchise. It's the largest outside of Texas. And our numbers put us easily in the top 20, probably close to the top 10.

of all brokerages. So like, Coldwell Bank or wherever. You get down to like, number 10, 11, 12. You've got 4, Keller Williams Forward Living, which is our group. We did...

In 2019, we did 10,000 closed sides and almost 9 billion in volume, 3,000 agents. So it's a big operation and it takes the right structure and the right people to have that one without me being crazy and inundated and having time to do what I love to do, which is talk to you. Yeah. Well, when you talk about, getting back to my question, when you

As you being the founder of Forward Living and establishing a brand and running the most successful offices in the Keller Williams model on the West Coast,

Where do you see the industry headed as a whole when it comes to real estate and agents doing business? Because my experience is seeing, or should I say being at all the other companies like Compass, Douglas Ellman, Rebel, Pacific Sotheby's.

It's more of, you know, I'm seeing these companies as processing centers or places where deals are done and agents are just processing, you know, processing, you know, deals through these actual brokerages. However, when you look at what I've experienced being at the Keller Williams business model thus far, there's a big contrast. There's a big difference there. And one of the differences that I'm seeing is that agents are actually focusing on building businesses in the Keller Williams model, whereas brokers

you go to these other brokerages yeah joe blow might have did five you know he might have did 50 million this year he did 100 million but

within the structure of all that there really isn't business being built there's just transactions being done right so can you kind of get into where you see the market headed as we close out where you see the market the real estate market going and how is you know and how important is it more than ever today for agents really to be not caught up in the hype of just oh i'm doing 30 million 50 million but really understanding am i building a profitable business that can be sustainable right

and that can stand the test of down markets and up markets where I'm seeing Keller Williams agents have been able to do that. And you watch other firms when the market shift, which you brought up, the market's gonna take a turn here in the next probably four to six months. And you're gonna see a lot of agents then that were doing these big crazy numbers, teams start to dwindle, numbers go down, and these agents find themselves being in a position where they're like, "Oh, my business shrunk." They're complaining about everything.

Whereas you look at Keller Williams agents and they're thriving. So can you just talk about that a little bit, where you see the market heading and how important is it for agents to be focused on building business and not just throwing up numbers? - Okay, so first of all, if I did not have a model that is Keller Williams showing me how to do this,

and i'm not taking anything away from myself because i've done it at the highest or close to the highest level of anybody in the 180 000 personal organizations i'm not taking i'm not taking a lot away from myself but i'm telling you i know me

And if I did not have a model, which I call like train tracks to show me what to do and how to do it and when to do it and all that kind of stuff, I could not have done this on my own. So having a model is absolutely key. Having a model to take you where you want to go. Okay. So what happened was, and I'm going to tell you where real estate is going, where real estate is going for the brokerages is this.

Over time, commissions are going to get compressed. I don't care what anybody says. Okay. Technology is coming in. It's making it easier. It's going to lower the value of agents. It's going to make agents somewhat, somewhat more interchangeable, but not totally. Okay. I'm just telling you, right. Cause we don't have much time left. Um,

Zillow Redfin compass they're building technology to replace the agent agent exactly Guaranteed so if you want to work for one of those firms every you know I have lots of agents that use Zillow leads to their benefit great have at it No problem. Just know that every dollar you send to Zillow Money is going to replace you as an agent. Okay, that's okay. No judgment. All right So so then it's about

And I could not have done this without a model. I look at people that have, you know, a brokerage one-tenth the size of what I have and they did it all on their own and they go, Paul, oh my gosh, what you've built is so amazing. I look around, I'm like, wait, I just visited a guy that has 700 agents and a great office and a good business and he did it all on his own. He's like, Paul, you know, I want you to be my mentor. And I'm looking around and I don't mind saying it to him. I look around, I'm like,

Dude, you did this on your own. Yeah. You know, I'm going to tell you, yes, I can help you get to the next step, but I want to acknowledge that no way on the planet. I myself, and I, and I'm glad you think I could be your mentor and I agree, but I'm telling you, I, me, I could not have done what you did. Yeah. Right. He's looking at himself. He goes, well, I'm 38 years old and,

you know, and you're 55 and I want to make sure I'm, I don't feel like, I feel like I'm behind. I'm like, dude, you're not behind, you know? So, so you've got to find a model that works for you, that works for you to take you where you want to go. Now, Keller Williams used to be like, Hey, we've got the best training in the business. We'll show you how to make a team. We'll show you how to take real estate and turn it from, from being a salesperson to a business person. That was our pitch.

Our pitch at Keller Weights for Living and the company's pitch really has shifted a bit because old school real estate is Coldwell Bankers, Sotheby's, whatever. And they call that a dependent model. So you're paying them a lot more split, but they're doing everything for you. Now, when I recruit somebody from there, I got to say, well, isn't it better for you to have your own business? And sometimes they're like, I'm making good money. I like them to do everything for me so that I could just do the agenting part.

They're not bad or wrong. So I've developed my business so that I can take a dependent model agent. It's not a bad word, okay? I can take a dependent model agent and I can provide everything that another firm does for them better, faster, cheaper, right? And Keller, then on the other side of it was like Remax, which is the discount broker. That's like side that says, hey, do it on your own. You don't need the broker, do it yourself, Remax.

was the one that pioneered it and they went only to top agents say hey you do this business all yourself why are you paying coal banker a 30 40 split just come here go to a flat fee it works for the discount brokers side it works for it works for the remaxes the low-cost brokers and their model is hey just bring your business over here we'll leave you alone you leave us alone you pay us a little bit of money you're way better off

So we do that too. Okay. And then the interdependent model, which is where Keller Williams was developed, which is to straddle the two. Right. And so, no, we don't give all the services that the dependent model does. And yes, we're more expensive than the independent, but we add a lot of value and we do it inexpensively. Right. So, so that's the, that's the, that's the, those are the really the three, any, any realtor that you meet is going to fall into dependent, independent,

independent and I'm built my model to service to service all of them and to help them move along now even when somebody is in a dependent model which means we're gonna charge them more we're gonna do all this stuff for them I'm still moving them toward a little bit more independence right

And even somebody, and I have agents that are phenomenal and they like want no help from us. Right. And I got to tell you for them, I just go, okay, Hey, glad to have you here. You know, but if I could kind of sort of help them a little bit and they were open to it, I would do that. I would move them a little bit more toward the interdependent. So, yeah.

It's all about where they want to go. That's for sure. But I will tell you in the future, real estate is going to be done more online. Okay. This thing right now that we're going through with COVID has just accelerated where real estate was already going.

where it would be five to seven years from now is going to happen in the next one to two years. The office space, you know, the moving more things online, you know, all that. I will say real estate is a one-on-one hand-to-hand combat business, right? You've got to, that's the great news. That's a reason why a Compass or a Zillow or Redfin can't take all the biz, take the agent out of the picture because

People still, you know, for most American, the vast majority of human beings, you know, their home purchase, their home purchase is the largest,

or if not close to the largest financial transaction that they will ever do. Absolutely. And it takes local expertise to do that. And that's why, for example, getting into business with Rod, having Rod as your realtor makes a difference. I don't buy and sell a lot, but I do it a little bit to help

to help, right? And I, and I had, it's weird. I had a conversation and I, you know, I'm, I feel like I'm doing them a favor by, you know, by putting them with a great agent. They go, well, what's your commission? I'm like, it's full commission. You know, like if you want to, right, I'll give you names of realtors in my own firm that will, that will discount.

but we're not gonna discount. We're gonna make sure you get the highest price, that you're the best taken care of, and we're not gonna do it for a discount. - Yeah. - You know, conversation. And then they, it wasn't conversation, they were like, "Okay, great."

So that I hope I answered your question. Yeah. And I'm in agreement with you. I definitely see the business, the red, the business going, moving heavily online. You know, COVID has definitely accelerated that as you share. I think we're going to see between the next 24 months, more business, more business being transact transactional online through various portals. Like I looked into a portal called I list, and then you have the eye buyers and all of these different types of

models that are coming along to provide platforms for agents and the consumer to transact because there's so many moving parts where between title escrow etc that so many things can fall to the through the cracks or cause the client to have a bad experience all because the lack of organization of

opportunity communication or just processing right and i'm also seeing the bigger brokerage models that aren't really adapting and and as you said as you share a lot of the bigger like the red fins the zillows the compass etc they're they're focused more in my opinion on making our agents obsolete as much as they possibly can or to minimizing their value to the point to where agents and we're saying with redfin where they're exchanging their time for for base salary and bonuses

You know what I mean? As opposed to dealing with the response, you know, dealing with the burden of being an agent, developing your business, developing a brand and really working to build something where you have an exit strategy as opposed to I'm just showing up for a paycheck and I like to do real estate or whatever the case is. So I agree with you there that we're definitely going to see more of our business online and transactions taking place there just simply because of what we're dealing with with COVID. And in addition, I believe the consumers want that too as well, especially when you look at

you know, people your age and my age and younger, we're online, you know, we're on social media platforms. People are accustomed to communicating that way. You know, people don't wanna necessarily have individuals calling them up out of the blue. People wanna communicate when they want to. They want a transaction, you know, and have more control. And I think that's what the internet has really created and set the tone and the expectation. So I do definitely believe we're gonna see a massive shift in our industry over the next 12 to 24 months.

And me being in a position where I am, I think it's really about identifying as you share when you talk about brokerages and what they can do for you really is aligning yourself and making sure that they meet your goals and they can help you get to where you're trying to go. And leadership, which in conclusion, I'll close, for those of you that are gonna come across this podcast or even watch the video on YouTube, I would say that leadership is important. The companies that you have, regardless of the name, the leadership is really...

at the end of the day, I feel personally will ultimately dictate and determine how well you can do in that environment. Meaning if the leadership truly cares about the overall success of their agents and they're showing it just like Paul talked about early on, how do you make decisions on what are you going to invest, who you're going to allow to manage your money? You simply go back and say, well, what the hell is your track record?

How many people have they made money for? How many people have they lost money for? What's their overall body of work or helping young agents that have no experience, establish themselves as agents in their farms, in their communities and build brands.

and build businesses, what's their track record of helping other agents that have experience scale and take their businesses to the next level, if that's you and what you're looking for. So I think it's about finding that fit and then also having that component where they are plugged in to where real estate is headed in the future, right, from a technology standpoint. And I believe that Keller Williams has definitely positioned themselves and has always been that when you talk about

helping agents develop brands, helping agents develop business models that are sustainable. And then now they're adding the technology component here that with the command and ability to allow agents to have an automation process to their business, which I think ultimately

is where you want to be as an agent. You want to have a business model where your business is automated, but then you still have that personal side to where you're able to engage and connect with your clients that you have developed relationships with. And Keller Williams is positioning themselves as that company going forward. Whereas I see other brokerages are going to be potentially hurting because you know this, Paul, once the business shifts and the amount of business out there drops, commissions drops,

Right? Absolutely. The amount of money that agents are earning drops. So then more agents start to figure out, start to find other ways to say, hey, if I can't have success selling homes, I'm going to go do this over here. And you see agents getting out of the business. What I've found is that that's the perfect time for agents to double down and thrive in a market like this. And that's, you know, me and the team, we're reading the book, The Shift again. I'm reading it for the second time. And I've got the team reading it because

it's mindset, it's understanding your priorities, your goals, and then your ability to believe in what you're doing and going out and executing and then aligning yourself with a team or an organization of leadership that can help you stay the course and get to the finish line. - Yeah, I love it, very well said. And it's been such a pleasure doing this podcast with you. - Yeah, same here. - Anybody that watches this will already know Rod is a guy,

As I mentioned, spending time with realtors and really with my personal desire to help and to be of contribution to people and then sort of running into the like, geez, I don't really enjoy this at all. What I do enjoy is I enjoy...

Working with somebody that, you know, if I were happened to give them, I don't think I know it all, but if they find something in what I say to be useful, they're going to go run out and make it happen. Boy, that that's that's all the juice I need to want to do those all the time. And Rod, you're you're you're an inspiration.

you're an inspiration and, and I learn whenever I'm, I'm, I'm wanting to show you something or you want, you want me to show you something. I am learning from you every time I show you something. And it's just obvious. I mean, look how learning based you are and, and, and you are, you know, you're, you're doing fabulous things. And anybody that wanted to use you as a realtor, I know that you're putting your heart and soul into it and you care about

the person above the commission, because you know that taking care of the person eventually, right? You know, you would tell somebody, it's like, oh, hey, I love this house. It's all this money. Let's do it. And you're like, yeah. Yeah.

I'm going to walk away from that commission check because I put them in that house. Here's what I think. And you tell them what you think and then you're honest about it. And if they still want to buy it, then great, let's do it. But not without giving them your really heartfelt thought and you're really a fiduciary for your clients. Absolutely. I agree. It's wonderful to be in business with you. I'm looking forward to what we're going to continue to do together.

Absolutely. Wow. I appreciate you taking this time. It was a good conversation. I know we were on for a while, but there's a lot of nuggets here. And I think the authenticity that, you know, for anyone...

When it comes across this interview, you can see Paul's genuine in everything that he does. He is a very busy man. And I know that you have a lot of moving pieces going on as you continue to build your empire. One thing in closing, I want to reiterate is Wealth Can't Wait, written by Paul Morris and David Osborne. This is a great book. If you're thinking about what are the steps and what things can I be doing to start establishing a wealth plan and how to execute and go about it, I recommend reading this book.

So for those of you that are listening, be sure to go out and get your copy of Wealth Can't Wait. Paul, how can people connect with you and get access to the book? So, you know, you can find me on Facebook and the social media channels at Paul Mark Morris, P-A-U-L-M-A-R-K-M-O-R-R-I-S. Also, forwardone.com is an email address for me, paulatforwardone.com. I really appreciate it.

Yeah, thank you for coming on again, Paul. Again, Paul Morris, our guest here on the All In podcast. Be sure to connect. And if you're an agent that's looking to take your business to the next level and you're looking to be in an environment where you're working with some of the best and have leadership that truly cares about your success, don't hesitate to reach out to myself or Paul. We have a great group of people here that can help you excel and grow. So with that said, until next time, you guys keep hustling out there, keep putting in the work, and I wish you well. Have a great day.

For more information on the All In podcast, visit LAVIPagent.com and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, and YouTube at RodWatson23. No matter where you are in the world, you can connect with us for motivational and inspirational content. Subscribe to this podcast series wherever you get your podcasts. Till the next episode of All In, keep believing, keep hustling, and keep putting in the work.