Super Soul Special: Eckhart Tolle: Free Yourself From Anxiety, Stress and Unhappiness
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I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time, taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now.

Today on Super Soul Conversations, it's been nearly a decade since visionary spiritual teacher Eckhart Tolle joined me for a series of groundbreaking conversations discussing his best-selling book, A New Earth. Live streamed around the world, 40 million people joined us in what we called the world's biggest classroom. It still just thrills me to think about the collective consciousness that brought so many of us together.

Now, in the midst of what feels like a shift separating millions of Americans and other people throughout the world, Eckhart is back to talk about the state of the new earth today. Eckhart believes that at the heart of the rancor, ego is the source of all of our pain. I can hardly believe it's been 10 years. Almost. Yeah. Yeah.

You have been one of my greatest spiritual leaders. You've been one of my great inspirations here on the planet. Thank you. I mean, the lessons I've learned, this is my own frayed copy of the book. I know that there is now a New Earth 10th anniversary edition, but I will always hold on, I need to tape these, the bind, bind the sides. I will always hold on to my own original copy because there are just so many insights and memories from it.

I think that this was the world's biggest classroom that we created, right? Yes, yes. Well, I've been trying to have this conversation because I thought that you could bring some really profound insight, which is my goal today. Insight into where we are and this undercurrent of pain that seems to be showing up in front of ourselves.

So I wanted to frame this conversation around actually examining where we are in this shift from egoic mind to consciousness. Because almost 10 years ago, we said we're moving to a higher consciousness. Yeah. And now it feels like there's a big divide that's preventing the consciousness. Or is the divide here to make us more conscious? Right. Well, the divide is a...

challenge, a big challenge. So the challenges that are inevitable for humans, sometimes they arise on a personal level and at other times challenges arise in the collective, which means millions of people get challenged at the same time for the same reason. So from a higher perspective, what we are witnessing now and millions of people are experiencing now is a collective challenge.

All over the world, actually. All over the world, not just here. There's also, in America here, there's a division that happens that's basically, if you look at the population or the electorate, half the people live in one kind of universe with one kind of mindset, and the other half live in another alternate universe with another kind of mindset. And that creates a separation.

The reason for the separation is that people are so identified with their particular mindset... Which is what ego is. That's what ego is, to be identified with mind, with thought structures, with opinions, with viewpoints, with perspectives.

To be identified means to derive your sense of self, your sense of who you are, from certain thoughts in the mind. So if you're identified with your viewpoint or opinion, you don't realize that this is a viewpoint or opinion. To you, it is the absolute truth, and it is...

inseparable from your sense of self. Right, so you think you are that. Yes. So that's why you say, I am a Republican, I am a Democrat, I am whatever your job is, I am this thing. Yes, so that's ego. So what's happening now collectively is...

a strengthening of the ego in many humans. So I want to say that most, well first of all, everybody has an ego. And before I read A New Earth, I thought ego meant the person who was arrogant, the person who was overconfident, the person who was a show-off. But I in fact learned through a process of A New Earth that everyone has an ego.

And the ego is really your identification with your mental state. Yes. Right. Yes. Yeah.

Whatever that is. Whatever that is. Which means we all have it. Yes, well, we all... Our minds have been conditioned in certain ways. Everybody has their particular kind of conditioning, which goes back to childhood, environment, upbringing, family background, the culture that you grew up in. All that becomes a conditioning of your mind. And so, to be clear, whenever you are identifying with that mindset, it means that is your ego. That's right. Because who you are...

The deeper I, the deep... Deep I. The deep I, or I say U with a capital Y, O and a U, is consciousness. Yes, that's right. Yeah. So to be identified...

is the ego, it doesn't mean that the conditioning of your mind disappears. So you still have opinions and viewpoints on whatever, on politics and so on. But when you talk about your opinions or viewpoints, you no longer regard them as an essential part of who you are. That's right. You know what it is, what happened to me? It just doesn't hold as much weight.

Yes. Yeah. Yes. I still am the same person. I still have the same opinions, the same values. But I don't have to prove myself to be right.

I can listen to your side of it and hear your side of it and actually see some right in that, even though I might have disagreed. Yes. That's right. So I can observe my ego. I can observe my mental state. Yes. Yeah. Once you understand that you are a part of consciousness, that you are consciousness, that you are separate from your thoughts, which is the biggest lesson to get in the world, is it not? Yes. Yes. Yes.

That's the realization that can only come to you if you are observant and in the gap between two thoughts, for example, right now as we're speaking, if I slow down a little bit, then there will be very brief gaps between words or between sentences. And if you pay attention to the gaps, they're not only words,

And as there can be little spaces between your thoughts, between one thought and another, or when you're looking at something, nature, and for a moment you just look without imposing mental labels on things. And then to be able to sense your own presence in that moment as consciousness, the most essential thing about you is that you are conscious.

conscious or consciousness right now. And another word for that is aware. You're aware. That's the awareness arising. You know that you are conscious directly, not as a conceptual knowledge, but direct realization of that essence of who you are. And that's such a liberation from the prison of inhabiting a purely conscious

personalized sense of self, where you derive your identity from your personal history, the narrative, the story in your mind, all those things that make up the so-called person. There's nothing wrong with that. Of course, you have memories. But to derive your sense of self from these memories, that's a great limitation. So it's just like you write in the beginning of A New Earth.

Everybody comes to their own evolution in their own due time. The fact that you're hanging in and you're reading this and you're seeking this means that you have reached a level of awakening. Yes, that's right. Because otherwise you would open that book and the book would be completely meaningless. Absolutely. There needs to already be something in you that recognizes...

the dimension to which the words point, which is in you. The dimension to which the words point is the consciousness within you. Because if you are still listening to us right now, it means that you are already in a state of awareness and openness and seeking for yourself that is unlike most of the world, I would say. Yes, yes. And that's a... It's a higher state of being if you can even hear this conversation. That's right.

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This is one of my favorite, favorite quotes. "Life will give you whatever experience is most helpful for the evolution of your consciousness." How do you know this is the experience you need? Because this is the experience you are having at this moment. Yes.

which is true for you as an individual and which is true for our culture which is true for our world right now how do we know this is the experience we need because this is the experience we are having yes because that's the way each person's personal evolution operates right yes well there is a certain inevitability about whatever form this moment takes because

This moment is connected to all the previous moments. So the entire universe has conspired to bring about the form that this moment takes. You can't argue with it because if you argue with the present moment, that's suffering and it's crazy. Say that again. I think it's important for everybody on all sides to hear. The entire universe, meaning every human being who's ever lived and evolved to this point,

and every person that's been born has been moving to this point in time where what we're experiencing in our lives personally and also on the political stage. Yes, because it's all connected. Has been coming forever. That's right, yes. Now, in some New Age teachings, you sometimes hear

when people go through suffering or pain and somebody else tells them, "Why did you manifest that?" I don't say that, I'm not saying that's not entirely false, but I'm not asking people to convince themselves that they manifested whatever they're experiencing at this moment, even if it's unpleasant.

All we need to know is accept this moment as if you had chosen it. I'm not telling people, "You chose this moment." That's just too much for many people. They don't want to accept it. I don't choose this illness. I don't choose to lose my job. So I don't want to go there. But all we need to know is in order to live more consciously, in order not to live in opposition to what is in the present moment, which is to live more consciously,

accept this moment as if you had chosen it. And that brings in a new consciousness. And do not deny the moment. This is what I learned from you that literally eliminated all stress in my life. Resisting the moment that is

is only going to create more anxiety and more... being more upset. A lot of the unhappiness that people experience, they believe it's due to the conditions of what's happening at this moment. But in most cases, it's not the conditions or the situation that you're in that causes the unhappiness. It's the mind telling you something about this moment that causes the unhappiness.

Yes, like I should have been there, I should have been earlier, I shouldn't have stopped to do this, I should have done that. It's the mind. Yes. I sometimes tell people, just don't believe what I say, just try it out in your own life. Next time you get upset in a certain situation, let's say you're at the airport, many people get upset at airports, you line up at the curling counter, it takes a long time, and you get more and more upset, and then you observe...

that what is it that causes me to be irritated, angry, upset? What is it, this situation? Or is it that my mind is telling me that this should not be happening? The ego is very good at misinterpreting reality and it believes its stories. The ego comes up with stories, often not pleasant stories about the is-ness of things, and it

it's a source of great suffering. So once you recognize that, you can experiment in your own life when you feel upset arising, watch your mind. Yes. Be there, be aware of what your mind is doing. This is the most vital thing in spiritual life.

is to be able to watch your mind, to be the observer of your mind so that the mind is not controlling you. And that is how you eliminate stress. Yes. And suffering. Yes. You say on page 119, the ego's fear and distrust of other people, its tendency to emphasize the otherness of others by focusing on their perceived faults and make those faults into their identity, is taken a little further and makes others into inhuman objects.

We are in that state now, are we not? Yes. In our culture, our country, our world. Yes. Not to be able to see the humanity in another human being

but only hear whatever it is they are saying, whatever is the reflection of their mind, their mental positions, and mistake that for who they are. So anybody who questions or challenges your mental positions is regarded by the ego as an enemy.

And this is the way you dehumanize others. Yes. Because once you have dehumanized another human being, then it becomes easy if you're very unconscious. Isn't that what terrorism is? Yes, exactly. That's an extreme form of that. The most essential thing is that we are both expressions of the one consciousness, what we share as human beings.

is the essence of who we are, the essence of who I am and who you are is consciousness. Not the thoughts, but the underlying consciousness. Based on the anger playing out every day in the news, negativity on social media feeds, you pose the question, have we regressed? Is the new Earth still happening? It's happening, but it's being challenged. And from a higher perspective, being challenged is a good thing.

Let's look at the nature of challenges. If you look at your own life or anybody's life, you may find that one way or another,

What looks like obstacles to where you want to go, where you want to be, what you want to achieve, obstacles seem to arise almost continuously in the form of difficult people, difficult situations. Some people have the perception that they're being sabotaged by life all the time. People resent being challenged by life. They think challenges should not exist. But, as I sometimes put it,

You may find, if you've lived for long enough, that at some point you realize that the world isn't here to make you happy. It can't do that. It's sort of like human evolution, where you say it's not linear. You take two steps forward in your own life and a step backwards. And then the further back you go...

the more of a bounce you have to move forward, right? Yes. We definitely have evolved in consciousness, but it does not go in a straight line upward. The evolution of consciousness happens, you regress, and then you go forward a bit more. It goes in cycles. I hear people saying all the time, are we going backwards? Are we stepping backwards? Indeed, you say, we are. Yes.

All the signs are that now we are at the beginning of a regression, regressive movement, which does not mean that every individual will become identified with ego again. It's a challenge, but it does not mean that you will also have to regress. Doesn't this mean, because what we're facing in the country politically, the divisiveness, the political divide here,

I think that these times, however it's showing up in your life, because there's really only one goal and that is for us to become more conscious, to become more fully human, to fully express the depths of what we have come here to do, that this is showing up to bring out the most, the best, the highest. Yes, the challenge actually forces you to go deeper.

First you may suffer. If it drags you down into unconsciousness, then suffering arises again. And as you suffer, then you're forced to transcend the suffering and go deeper. So the big opportunity when challenges arise is the opportunity and the need to intensify suffering.

Your presence meaning being fully here. Yes, fully here more alert more present more aware Yeah, will you share your philosophy about how this past election was in some way a mirror of our collective consciousness? Yes, so it brought to the surface what was already there in the collective unconsciousness and now we have the division in pro

administration in Washington and against it. And this is a typical example of how the ego operates and how the egos need to have enemies. So it comes back to what I was saying earlier, the egos fear and distrust of other people. Separation. Yeah, wanting to emphasize the other, the other, the other. Wanting to emphasize separation. Because if I can make you the other, then it makes myself the

Are you still quoting 30-year-old movies?

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But how can we have disagreements with people and see things that are wrong, that are injustices, stand up and take action and do that without getting ourselves sucked into the negativity? Yes, without deriving your sense of self from your perspective or your viewpoint. So it is then, if two conscious people

having a discussion, let's say one is a Democrat and the other one is a Republican, and if both of these people have a certain degree of awareness, which means they are not totally identified with their perspective... With their point of views. They would be able to have a discussion without animosity arising, without regarding the other as an enemy. You don't have to be disagreeable when you disagree.

What that saying implies is you don't have to be totally identified with your perspective and your viewpoint, and yet you can put it forward in strong terms. This is how I see it. Without deriving your sense of identity from it, because your sense of identity arises from a deeper place, from the stillness within you, the consciousness,

that space of awareness that you are, the presence, whatever word we want to use. You can sense that. Or this need to prove that you're right, which I used to have that big time until I read this book. I used to have that. Yes, many people have that. The need to be right is a very egoic thing. The ego thrives on being right, which always implies there needs to be someone who is wrong.

So the need to make the other wrong, then it strengthens the ego, which means it strengthens the ultimately, what is ultimately a false sense of self. And it's not, it's never a happy sense of self, even if you can prove that you're right,

You're still not happy. Well, yes, because I learned from a new Earth that it wasn't just my need to be right. It was my need for you to see and say that I was right. Yes. I mean, it has the incredible force behind it, this need to be right, incredible force behind it. Yeah, yeah. I get that. But you also teach us that humans don't really change until they are in a state of crisis.

Yes, and this is where challenge comes in again. So are we there yet? We're in that state of crisis, aren't we there? Yes, and it may get worse before it gets better, but that is a necessary part of the evolution. So we need the crisis. Humans don't grow except through facing the challenges and crisis. So there are two levels of truth. One is to see the craziness of what's happening now, and another is to see...

from a higher perspective to what's happening now is part of the evolution. The ego is coming up, is manifesting. It needs to break down so that something else can break through. Yes, yes, that's right. So based upon everything that you shared with us, how should we be acting, reacting, comporting ourselves in this moment?

Well, the only thing you can take responsibility for is yourself, your own state of consciousness. So first of all, the most important thing to realize is in any situation, whether it's to do with a collective, political situation, personal situation, in any situation, what is primary is your state of consciousness, the state of consciousness with which you

face that situation. So how can you sit and observe the hysteria, the craziness going on, and kind of be still with it? Yes, you can recognize it as a disturbance. Because I think everybody feels like, "I need to do something. We need to do something." Yes. Well, doing sometimes is necessary and called for. At other times,

Doing isn't really possible. But before you do anything, what is the state of consciousness out of which the doing arises? Yes. Because that determines the quality of your doing. Yeah. And as you're saying that, I'm thinking everybody can open their heart space, their sense of awareness, consciousness, being to not...

-otherize the other. -Yes, yes. Everybody can just open that just a little bit. Yes. And with that comes the ability also to listen to the other. -Yes. -The ability to listen means there must be a little bit of space in you, a little bit of awareness in you. True listening implies that you are still while you listen. You give your complete attention to the other. And that changes the relationship.

then because that brings in the spiritual dimension or the transcendent dimension, whatever you want to call it, you need to be able to bring the stillness into the relationship. And another thing happens when you listen to another, in that still moment when you're listening, you're not only aware of what the other person is saying,

In that stillness, you can also feel a deeper essence in the other human being beyond the words that he or she is speaking. Why can you feel it? You can feel that deeper essence in the other because in that moment of stillness, you can feel it in yourself. You can only do that, though, when you've become aware enough about your own self to know that you are not your thoughts. Yes. And so that when you see somebody, you know, raging against the world... Yes. ...you...

have the ability to step back and know that they are not their rage. That's right. That beneath the rage, beneath the anger, beneath the pain, beneath the sadness, beneath whatever they're showing to you, there is the pure consciousness that is also you. Yes. Yes. Well, if we all could do that, then...

Well, that would be... There'd be no need for us to have this conversation. That's right. Yes. Despite the level of suffering people are inflicting upon themselves and on one another, do you have hope that people will wake up? Yes. It's inevitable for consciousness to arise more fully on the planet.

because it's part of the entire evolutionary impulse of the universe, is towards consciousness. So it is arising. It can be delayed, and that's not a bad thing. Delays can only have a deepening effect ultimately. What's the way forward? The way forward is for the individual to take responsibility, to remember,

that the most important thing is not what's happening out there, that what is primary is my state of consciousness at this moment. That determines what form the future will take. So the important thing to realize is what happens to you is much less important than how you respond to what happens.

that determines your life. It's not the things that happen to you that determines your life. Ultimately, it's how do I respond to what happens and that is also your area of freedom. You can choose to respond consciously to what happens. Then you're not at the mercy of what happens to you. What is the purpose of the soul?

Well, by soul I have another word for it. I've recently been using the pointer the deep eye. The deep eye. At that level of the deep eye, which is consciousness itself, you are already complete. The deep eye has nothing to achieve. All that the deep eye wants is to come more fully into this dimension.

So there's no evolution of the deep I itself because at that level you're already complete and perfect and it's timeless. But as it comes into this dimension... So your soul isn't here to evolve? Your soul isn't here on the planet to evolve? It's here to come more fully into this dimension. You could call that to evolve. Okay. But the soul itself, the essence of who we are, is already timeless. So it evolves in this dimension by coming more fully into this dimension.

Eckhart, how do you know this? Well, it's an intuitive insight. A question is asked and then the answer comes through the stillness. That's how it works. It's not figured out through the mind. It just comes from you, through you, out of you, out of consciousness. Out of consciousness. And then somebody else listens to it and suddenly they go, yes, yes.

When you hear the truth, it resonates and it feels like an "Aha!" Yes, it's always recognition. It's a reminder of what you already knew deep inside. So, when are you in an absolute state of well-being or are you always there?

There's always a well-being. Of course, the body changes. The physical well-being can vary. But underneath the physical well-being, there's always a deeper sense of well-being, and it arises out of the realization of the deep eye. That's always fine. No matter what's happening on the outside, the deep eye is always fine. That's an experience that's a surface of life. All these things happen on the surface of life. Do you...

Do you enjoy the surface of life as deeply? Yes. Or are you always in this sort of meditative state? I enjoy it, but not in the way that I would say...

wow, I'm going to see Oprah, isn't that so great? I don't get excited about it. There's an enjoyment. Even when you called me many years ago, I remember you called me up and you said, I chose the New Earth as my next election for the book club. And I said, oh, that's great. So I felt pleased. You said, thank you. I remember you said, thank you. And usually people go, well,

Oh my God, believe it. Actually repeated it. I said, did you hear what I said? I'm choosing your book. And he goes, thank you. I go, okay, thank you. Thank you so much. What do you think happens when we die? Well, the personality dissolves. But to realize that is when the ego subsides and you become aware of your deep eye, which is awareness itself. We just put it like that.

You become aware of the deep eye. That's the part of you that is beyond death. So when you can sense the consciousness in you, then you become actually aware of that which is also beyond time and that which is ultimately divine in you, the divine dimension, to use that term. And that is what is beyond death. And then you lose your fear of death.

which is a good thing. You no longer need to fear when at some point the body dissolves and that's fine. So something to look forward to. I think it's going to be a big hootenanny surprise. Yes. When you, as that ray coming from the source of all light, get to rejoin with the source. Yes. Yeah. Yes.

That's got to be a party. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Always a joy to talk to you. I'm Oprah Winfrey, and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe, rate, and review this podcast.

Join me next week for another Super Soul Conversation. Thank you for listening.