Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
My differentiation is I want to make a burger that's like a very China tailored burger. Let me throw this at you then. Now that Shake Shack's in Shanghai, coming into China. Looking back, now I've been in China seven years, I probably should have opened a noodle shop. Or crazy. Yeah. Any crazy stories?
- I mean, it's you guys. My dad was like fucking dying. And he's like, "Go pay!" And I'm like, "Oh fuck, right, okay." I was like, "Why is the wall moving?" And I was like, "Oh shit, those are cockroaches." - We read our DM ping. There's actually DM pings that we're the owner tell the customer to get the fuck out, 'cause we do. - So we're gonna switch things up today. Charles, you brought this rum, right? - Yup.
Called Plantation Rum. You're saying this is your favorite rum? This is my favorite rum. I think it's one of the best too. Why? Why is that? I'm sorry. I have no idea actually. We're going to get a whole safe next week. Everybody's going to have a cold. You want to help with the ice? Do we have an ice pick thing? So you were telling me about this rum the other day. We were having whiskey. And you were saying I have to, this is like a sipping rum. So because I
Before, I always hated... You know, rum for me was like rum and coke, right? Yeah. So, I've never had good rum. The best rum I had before was probably like Havana, I think. Havana 7 or something. Yeah. But then I tried this one. I'm like, oh, shit. It tastes like sugar syrup. It's from Barbados, right? Make sure you don't block it.
I got into my rum phase in high school and it was right after a trip I took with a friend to Barbados. So we spent a few days there. Yeah, it's awesome. Barbados is awesome. You been too? I was stationed there for a while. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. When were you stationed? In the military? I used to produce a TV series. A documentary series in the Caribbean. Yeah, I'm like, how he was in the military? I'm like, what the fuck? Soft ass. I'm like, wow.
No, but Barbados is awesome to be in. It's beautiful. The food is delicious. The food, the culture, it's just a great atmosphere to be in. It's so relaxing. French influence. Yeah, a lot of French influence. And obviously they're all about their rum. Where is Barbados? Mount Gay, Mount Gay Rum. It's in the Caribbean. Oh, my God.
So the five-year, the plantation five-year, I think, is considered one of the best value rums. What is this? Oh, by the way, just be careful not to slide your hands and things on the table because it makes really loud noise. What is this? Five-year? No, this is a 20-year. Interesting. 20th anniversary. 20-year. Smells really good. Wow. Wow.
So this is a little change for us because usually for this show we only start off with a different bottle of whiskey. So this is gonna be the first rum I have. I drink whiskey by myself all the time. Yeah, I know you're a big whiskey guy. Yeah, so but then until I try good rum. You had really high praise for this rum so I'm really curious. It tastes even better. Can I read this?
Real quick. So the double aging process brings incomparable smoothness and fullness to the rum. The intense flavors of vanilla, ripe banana, sugar cane, and roasted coconut are very present. It smells really good. And it doesn't smell really strong. Like it doesn't... No, no, no. It's 40% right now. Yeah, it's 40%. I have to have you back every week.
Oh my god. It's really good. Not bad, right? It's really good. It's a really good... It's... Wow. Not what I expected. I never thought I'd be able to sip on rum as deliciously and comfortably. This is really good. Oh my god. It's not because of the ice, right? It's the sipping rum. Well, I think the ice helps. Yeah, well, the ice helps. This is so smooth. Because otherwise, it's too strong. You were absolutely on point with this rum, dude. Wow. I might have a new sipper when I go out. Yeah.
- Do they have this everywhere? Is this common? - Very few people have it. The five-year, you can find it in maybe Atelier. Even at Atelier, I think they only had the five. Even the five was out. - They didn't have the one you wanted. - Oh, it's a 20-year. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is like extra old, right? XL means extra old. - Where did you buy this from? - The vendor. So I actually know the guy who sells this. - Oh, really? Do they have a store on Taobao or anything like that?
No? Is it expensive? Like 500? Yeah. I can give you that. How much is it? RMB or US? RMB. RMB. I was about to say. I was like, damn, dude. I never knew that. So XO stands for extra old. I never knew XO. I thought XO was a type of... It's a good little fun fact. I thought it was like cognac. Yeah.
But it's used in... I don't want to start with like... So when they say XO Zhang, like in Cantonese, the Zhang, the sauce. I don't know what... Is that extra old sauce? I don't know what it is in Cantonese, but in all liquors, it's always extra old. Like in cognac, it's XO, extra old. Yeah.
Oh, I think for the, for like the Cantonese thing, they're using XO liquor to make the sauce. I always thought XO was cognac, but I think you can use XO for anything. Extra old, huh? Yeah. I don't know if it's like. No, cognac, there's XO, there's not XO, right? So let me ask you, Charles, being in the F&B business, do you get a lot of like, you must get a lot of like kind of like insider resources and like direct information.
Like, you know, if you want to get like, let's say for this rum, for example, right? You can go direct to the source and get it for certain like meats or beef and stuff like that. Well, just in case there's like fake ones, right? Because I like this search Taobao, I just find one vendor that sells it. It could be fake though. Yeah, you don't know. But you know this guy. Yeah, because this guy is the brand...
So does that come from just being in the F&B biz or was this... I guess so, yeah. Okay, I'm curious now. So we all live here in Shanghai. We know that, you know, sometimes you go out, there's fake alcohol, right? Now, you just said when you're working with vendors, you want to make sure to be able to differentiate between ones that sell fake and ones that sell real. How do you differentiate? Is it real? Yeah, like do they like out
right tell you or is it do you know as as no I mean honestly like if you're one of those chain bars like okay you know I'm I know I'm buying fake shit no there is that there is that fake shit for years he wants to I'm pissed like I want to I think we all have yeah there's the vendor that tell you they sell you fake shit so they'll still say they'll give you the fake price
Just like with clothing, like sneakers, right? It's like, this is fake, but this is the price. So there are those vendors, but then there are those vendors who like pretend it's real, but it's fake. So what are the telltale signs? There is no telltale sign, man. You just have to know the guy. You just have to drink it. Like if you get a fake, then yeah, just change your guy. Well, to get like good resources and like purveyors and like, you know, suppliers, is it through just through referrals mostly? Yeah.
Because you won't hit up a supplier just like cold call one that you don't know anything about, right? Well, usually you go to the brand, right? Let's say I go to a plantation brand.
So I got it from the brand guy this time. But he'll refer you to a distributor. That makes a lot of sense. It's better that way. Because it's in the brand's interest, I mean, generally speaking, to have reputable distributors. They don't want the fake shit out there. It tarnishes the brand. But usually how they do it is they give you 90% real, 10% fake. I think that's what happens at Truncate a lot of times.
So they mix it in with the real so you'll never catch it. It's hard to catch it. If they want to do fiction. Now to the real nitty gritty, Charles. It's something I've been wanting to ask you for a very long time that's been irking me a little bit. What is with your obsession with always wanting to turn your food gold?
I see on your moments everything you're turning your burgers gold, turning your like cookies gold or like hot dogs gold. I just have a lot of... What is that? What's up with that? I have a lot of this gold and I gotta use it. So what is it? It's completely edible? Yeah, it's food coloring. Food coloring like gold. I got it from Germany. So Germans were the only one that like created this apparently like spray on gold food coloring and there's like no taste.
Do you spray it on after the food is cooked? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you spray it or is it part of when you're baking the bread? Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's it made of? I have no idea. It's in German. Well, what was your thought process behind that when you first thought of a gold burger? I saw because there was an ad. It was a gold duck. It looked pretty sexy. So I just bought a shit ton of it. So now I have to use it because now I have too much gold paint.
it's like being stuck in the corner like I have no choice I just gotta so you saw a gold duck you decide and that gave you the thought to kind of like okay you can do it yeah I got overly aggressive so like I bought too much of it like I'm like yeah order me a box but then like how much is a box I think it was like 2000 RMB
Yeah, so I have a box of this cool stuff. No, but also like the amount of work I had to spend to get it. Like I feel like I must use it because like the first time they sent it to me, like China rejected it because like they didn't know what the fuck it was. They were like, you're going to put this in food? Fuck you, right? No, so I still can't sell it.
I mean, but I can eat it myself now. So you're not legally allowed to put a gold burger on your menu? I can't sell it because it's not... I don't have the tag for the import. Because if you want to sell it, then you need the tag. If you want to eat something, like if I want to bring snacks from the States... You can't sell it, but can you serve it? I can serve it. You can serve it? I can give it to you for free. I just can't sell it to you.
It's like I brought donuts back from the States. I can give it to you. You can eat it. You can't market it. Well, has it helped with the marketing aspect? Because you put it out there, people see it, right? A lot of people see it. I just eat it. But do people pick up on it? Does it kind of go viral a little bit? People are like, ooh, Gold Burger at Charlie's. Nobody likes Gold Burger. It's only me. So before we continue even further...
Why don't we just get like an elevator conversation? You only have like a minute to describe who you are and what you do here. Yeah, for the people who don't know who you are. And if you've been living under a rock in Shanghai for the past several years and you don't know what Charlie's is, just explain to any viewers that may not know. So it's a burger chain. I started three years ago. We have six shops now. And yeah, yeah.
Are you, do you have any plans? What's your plans for expansion? I want to make a good, so my differentiation is I want to make a burger that's like a very China tailored burger. So my burger is different, right? The bread is a little bit sweeter than the regular bread, right? I still use a potato bread. I'd say so, yeah. The mayo is a little bit sweeter, right? I use a Japanese mayo instead of a...
American Hellmann's right because there's I think there's umami flavor in Japanese mayo yeah it's definitely sweeter yeah the bread is definitely and Chinese people I think in general are more they're used to it yeah but in general you go to like the stores the food stores you get Kewpie you know and those are always they're sweeter
They're definitely sweeter than what we're used to. I feel like your portions are also more suitable to the local Chinese appetite. Portions are the same. I would say my portion is pretty big. All the fast casual burgers we recently ate for around 120 grams of
of meat, right? So you're weighing the meat like when you portion it out and everything? Yeah, of course. Actually, if anything, my portion is bigger because usually fast food does like a 50 gram bread. I do a 60 gram bread. That's pretty precise.
What else about your burger is sort of customized a little bit? I use char siu, right? So I, yeah. You use char siu in the beef? No, not in the beef. No, but you have a char siu style. Char siu burger. Oh, I mean that. So that's a Chinese, that's a Hong Kong meat, right? Yeah. Have you had that one? I have. Pretty good. Pretty good. Yeah.
Yeah, amazing in mind and very hard. So what tweaks have you made since you started and like, you know, have you seen the impact of like, did you start off with this recipe or did you make tweaks like as you went along? Well, when I opened Charlie's, I didn't even know how to make bread. So like I bought bread, but then I just felt like all the bread I bought was kind of shitty. So I started making my own bread. And it took me a long time to learn. It took me like half a year to learn how to make bread.
And like my first batch of bread was like rocks. I never make bread, right? I don't know how to make bread. So like my staff was like, if you get into a fight, you can use these two. Your own staff was saying that? Because they were hard. They were hard. But then like, yeah. But that's good though that they would like, you know, like critique like that. You know what I mean? Because then you know. They made fun of me. But after half a year, it got pretty good. Yeah. Then I finally got the bread recipe right. Yeah.
The brown pickles, right? So because the canned ones kind of shitty. Yeah, I think I think it's just like small things. One thing I do notice knowing you now and having eaten at your restaurants. One thing that I find you always go back to and correct me if I'm wrong is you're always creating your own way of doing things because you feel like the standard is not good enough.
Right. So, for example, you're like, oh, this beef, you know, the typical beef that from your vendor or whatever, you've directly use it without too much, you know, seasonings of it. It's just shit. So you're constantly trying to figure out how to get that seasoning right. And then or if you're making like fried chicken or like, you know, the chicken tenders, you're like, you know, it's just not right. So you're constantly, constantly trying to improve, trying to improve, get it to the level of of not even caring about your actual the cost of it.
Right? Because you're like, first, I want to get the taste right. And then figure out how to... Yeah, I mean, people buy good products, I feel.
Because I do want to make a good product. That's bad business. No, it's good business. But in terms of cost, cost of goods. I do have very high costs. Your cost is so high. Knowing you and having been eating at Charlie's and your other establishments all these years, you're very generous with your portions and what you allow customers to get away with.
You know what I mean? And I think that comes from, like, our upbringing from the States, right? Where you kind of see things that, like, you know, in the States, portions are just bigger in general. There's, like, you can go up to, like, a sauce bar and just get as much sauce as you want, pump out as much sauce as you want, you know? And in China, like, if you go ask, you know, a Chinese restaurant asks for ketchup, they give you, like, a little thing, a little packet at a time, right? So we're used to kind of this abundance, overabundance of, like, quantity, right, in the States. And I think...
that has impacted a lot of kind of like your generosity in terms of like you know how you treat customers just from my own observations and to Howie's point in terms of you always trying to prove things you know having like observed you for all these years and just like been your friend like I feel it comes and correct me if I'm wrong I feel it comes more from the fact that
You're learning you kind of have to teach yourself everything you're kind of going as you're doing it, you know, I mean Coming from your background like like you said you had to learn how to bake bread Right and you had to learn how to make your own buns now buns are like So like you had to learn this big step but you had to learn this you have to learn how to do that so through through that process of forcing yourself to have to learn these things to maintain this business that you run and
You're forced to kind of like... Through that process of learning it, you will naturally make it different than others. You know what I mean? Because you're making it yourself. You're not buying a lot of things from suppliers. Like off the shelf. Exactly. So just by you making the effort to make them, it's going to come out different. Hopefully. Right? Hopefully. What is the... What is the... What is your goal? Like, why did you do this? I mean, I wanted to...
Do the biggest fast casual burger chain in China. That's my goal. Why? Show that you could. Someone must do it. Why not me?
So let me throw this at you there. Now that Shake Shack's in Shanghai and coming into China, right? Because you guys kind of occupy the same space in terms of the market, right? You guys are, you know, fundamentally the same concept. More premium fast food, right? Yeah, like fast, casual, quick service, you know, one step up above fast food, but not like a full restaurant restaurant kind of like with full service. It's fast, casual, right? So that's the fastest growing...
You know segment in the food and beverage industry should be yeah, it should be so you guys are occupying the same space now with Shake Shack just coming in, you know, they just launched a store and have a burger What have the burgers been around? I haven't tried but they're not damn been around that long But they've been around for a while more than a year two years now, but what I'm saying is Shake Shack is the bigger name Yeah, I mean have a burger and shake shack, right?
So are you concerned at all? Or do you see that as it will help your business in terms of bringing... Because Shanghai and China in general is a big enough market for more than one competitor, right? So before they came, I was concerned. I was like, fuck. You never want a competitor to come. But amazingly, ever since they came, my business actually got better. How so? Yeah.
Because then people can compare, I feel. A lot of people would think Shake Shack is an awesome burger because they never had it. And now they have it. It's funny because if you read Shake Shack's review, a lot of them would be like, Charlie is better. Because I do tweak my shit to the Chinese taste. So now they have comparison. Because otherwise it's like, I'm telling you, have a good burger.
but they never really had like another good burger. What are they like? Now they appreciate it more. Yeah. What are they like better about your burger? Because that's really interesting because you've gone through all these experimentations. Do you get specific feedback? I think it's all the little things. It's all the little things, right? Like my bread is a little sweeter and stuff. Stuff that if you don't want to tell you, you probably won't even know. Right? But then like... They just like the taste better. They just like the taste better. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, there's also like the whole marketing strategy of, you know, let's say H&M and Zara back in the day when they first were growing. They would always open next to each other. Right? Why? It's because more people will come. They create the ecosystem. Yeah. You create an ecosystem. If you're competing, you don't want to be next to each other. You're just splitting up your audience. But now you're going to get everyone together and share the wealth kind of thing and bring up the awareness. So it's almost like that idea. So have you ever thought about maybe...
seeing how to get close to the chicken. We just don't want to get too close. Cause I mean, uh, cause I own other restaurants too, right? Let's say a Cantonese restaurants, right? I have two Cantonese restaurants in my very block. There's three more and that's fine. Cause in China, like the market for Cantonese food is huge. Yeah. Right. But then burgers is not a very high volume business. All right. So, uh,
Like, people like burgers, but not a lot of people like them. It's the niche. Yeah, it's not like America. It's a lot more easy to saturate the supply, right? So I always compare, like, let's say, I think in China, a burger shop, a burger shop, like, in China, sorry, like, in China, like, it would be, burgers in America would be like noodle shops in China. Yeah.
Yeah, right cuz there's just like you can have one on every corner. You can have a noodle place on every corner and you'll still make money. People eat more burgers in America whereas people eat more Cantonese food. Because burger is like your typical food. It is the comfort food of United States versus like let's say noodles is the comfort food of China. You have the opportunity to grow the market and actually get more people eating burgers. So yeah, I think it is happening. So Shake Shack coming in, people know burgers more but at the same time like
There's a reason why they didn't open near us either. The market is only so big. Nobody want to...
Compete for it too directly. But at the same time, we want to work together to create the ecosystem. Make people want to think about burgers more in general. Well, now with Shake Shack in China and also you have Habit Burger, does that alter or change your marketing strategy in any way? No. It's still the same. Biggest in China, man. Because they're all American, right? Yeah. Because they have to follow by...
their global standards and that's that's their strength and their weakness that's gonna be the rope around their hands that's gonna tie their hands together even though they're like super strong because they have that like the backing but at the same time like the amount of stuff you can do is limited right i can do a promotion tomorrow i can tweak my recipe if i want but they can't they have to a shake shack burger have to be the same everywhere
because they have so much bureaucracy and they have to go from top down. China has to take exactly like America. Like I always say with business, even with Roxanne back in the day, it was like, it's like, they're like an oil tanker, right? They're this big, huge business, right? Where if they want to change or pivot directions, it takes a lot of time and they have to do it very slowly and incrementally. You're more like a speedboat, right? You can zip, you can go left, you can pivot, you can make a U-turn, you can do whatever the hell you want. It gets better, right? As the ice melts. It's
It's good. I mean, all the way through. I'm really enjoying this. I'm actually almost done. I'm ready for more. I am done. You're not ready for more. So I have a question. So, I mean, this is a basic one. So why burgers, though, to begin with? We know you want to, you know, it was a great market, but why burgers? I kind of fucked that one up. You fucked that one up? What does that mean? I mean, looking back, looking back now, I've been trying to seven years.
I probably should have opened a noodle shop. But it's not too late for you to do that. I mean, you have your hands in a lot of different things. I do, I do. So that's why I'm opening a lot of Cantonese restaurants now. I'm opening more Cantonese this year. So if you feel that strongly about noodles. But that's a very business. Yeah, yeah. So burgers, I love. I like a good burger. For me, burgers, happy food. Burger, ice cream. I love burgers.
Like, you know, dirty food. Right? But... But it's... Like, in China, if I could redo it, I would not have opened it. You would not have opened Charlie's? I would have opened maybe one burger shop for passion. Uh-huh. But for business, I would not have opened a burger. Like, seven years ago. If I can redo. Well...
I don't know because you kind of saved me. Like back in the, like seven years ago, right? Obviously, as we know, we've been here a long time. The food and beverage, from a Western food standpoint, the F&B scene here within the last decade has...
has dramatically changed. So back in the day, it was hard to get a good Western meal at all, even just seven years ago. So the best thing was like Element Fresh or something. So what really saved me was Pyro.
Because you remember I used to come to Pyro all the time, right? And I would just feast at Pyro. It was definitely one of the main contributors to my weight gain. And Pyro was the precursor. Yeah. So the reason why I opened a burger... I loved your menu there. Fat bastard. Yeah. Are you ever going to bring that back? No. It's too fatty.
It was delicious though. It was fucking... Yeah. We can make one. The fat bitch. I remember the fat bitch. Oh yeah, the fat bitch. We can make one ourselves and just eat it. But we won't even eat it now probably. I would do it as a one-off. Dude, definitely do it. Dude, I... You know how often I came in India. But now we just don't eat it. It's huge, man. After this show. We're talking about... Yeah, I would still eat it. I would feel really guilty about it, but I would eat it. I didn't eat all day. I think it's like 2K.
Dude, 2,000 calories just for that one? You remember me and James walking in there? And we would just destroy that menu. Just a small digression. So I just saw this video on YouTube yesterday. And this guy ate 20,000 calories in one day. In one day? Yeah. But he's a skinny guy, right? No, no. He's a bodybuilder. I'm excited. But the 20,000 is more like a challenge. So he starts his day and he had like 12 or 24 Krispy Kremes. And that was like 4,800 calories.
Then he had like two Big Macs, like two fries, and then 20 chicken nuggets. And then that was like another $5,000. That's like how I used to be. So I think we used to do a good $8,000 to $10,000 after Muse. You know what I'm saying? Including the alcohol. So that was just a challenge. That's not his daily routine. No, no, no. It was like, so if he gets a certain amount of likes, he's like, okay, if I get 10,000 likes, I'm going to do 25,000.
He was literally lying there at the end and he was like, this hurts so bad. Yo, I don't know. I don't know. 20,000 calories. 20,000 calories. And the guy's like ripped, right? I mean, his burn is pretty crazy. I'm good. Want some more ice? I'm okay. No, you should get some more ice. I like it. It must be. You try it first. What's the, is there any, like in terms of customers that you've seen throughout the years come through your establishments?
are there any like memorable customers in terms of like a person eating like a lot a lot or crazy yeah any crazy stories I mean it's you guys is it is it really yeah it's actually you guys are probably like laughing
Come on, not the most... The biggest eaters. So, like, what happened? Any of your customers? Well, I don't know. Like, I don't really pay attention to the customers anymore. But, like, no, I don't know. Because when I have one restaurant, right, I'll be there. I actually... I talk directly to a customer. But now it's more like I... I still try to, like, sit and be at the restaurant, but I don't talk to them anymore, right? Because there's too many. And then...
So now I don't know like who eats a lot but but but I still remember like I Told you many times like the time what this is how I actually got to know you guys I think right like was cuz you and James
Maybe Howie too, I don't know. I was there. Oh yeah, you guys made an order. It was like, which was way too much. It was like three fat bitches. I forgot what it was. Like you thought something must have been wrong. Like they took the order wrong so you came over to double check. I just didn't want you guys to waste money, right? I'm like, yo, you guys are like buying too much food. You might want to like cancel something. I remember this. And then James was laughing and he's like, you don't know who we are. And he didn't know who we are.
No, I did not. I did not. And I'm like, okay, I guess if you guys want to order it, do it. Then, yeah, I think you guys did a good job. I don't remember. At least you guys ate majority of it, which is impressive because I think you guys ordered for like double the amount of people you had. At least, yeah. I remember that. And I remember coming to Pyro...
And recognizing I know I never really said hi to you But I always recognized you because I wrecked you were doing you did that dating show What was that dating show call again face and world yeah, you did it more than once right I did too. Yeah. Yeah. So what was that experience like? Like for me, it was just fun Did you go on in dates like from it I
Yeah, yeah, I did. I did. So people always say that this shit is all set up. Is it set up or is it real? It's set up. Okay. So all the girls I actually dated was like not the girls I carried off from the show. Oh. Just like in the back, like you get their WeChat. Chit-chatting and stuff like that. So it's like you were able to like really meet a lot of single girls. Yeah, you do meet single girls. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I dated them.
Was it worth it alone just for that? I mean, the reason why I did it was because my mom, like, she's like, oh, you don't have to guss for it. Like, if you do it, I'll give you this amount of money. Really? So she challenged you? Your mom challenged you? She thought I'd be too shy for it. But she doesn't really know me, right? Because in front of my mom, I'm like, why? So you did it more out of spite than anything. No, I just did it for money. You know what I mean?
That's hilarious. I remember, this was before I even met you. I saw that episode with you. Because it was the first time that I had saw that show with like an ABC on, right? And a guy from the States, and I'm like, oh, well, if he can do it, I mean, and then it started getting faster. You can do it. I'm like, well, maybe I should do this too, right? You guys should do it. Oh, now it's too late. Now it's too late. Eric can still do it.
That show is still around. It's still around. That show is still around. Well now there's a lot of different... It's not as popular anymore. Well that was the last... There's a lot of different versions of that show. Yeah, because before I think it was the only show so it was very popular. There's too much content now. Yeah, content is like too crazy now. No one cares about that shit now. Yeah.
Do you feel it's hard to maintain a relationship while running a business at the same time? It's okay. Find the right girl. I mean, it's okay. What does that mean, it's okay? So I think it's different. Before, I used to go on dates. Right now, my life is more normal. Because now I run it more as a company versus a restaurant owner. But if you're a restaurant owner...
So before, I'll go on dates after the lunch rush or after the dinner rush. So I'll meet a chick, I'm like, "Hey, do you want to go to dinner?" She's like, "Sure." She's like, "What time?" I'm like, "Let's do 9:30." - Well, you always do that to me too. - "Hey, I'm free to go out?" Yeah, I'm like, "Okay, what time do I meet?" I'll be like, "I'm good at 2:30 in the morning." - But some girls are like, "What the fuck?" Right? Like, "It's so late."
But at the time, I didn't think it was that late. But now I guess it is kind of late. But now, you know, I eat dinner regular hour. But at the time, because I had to do service. So a lot of girls would have to wait for me outside a restaurant. So I guess it kind of got into my dating life. But it's okay. It probably made him more desirable. Why? Hard to guess. Yeah. Because you're a busy guy. He's not hurtful. I used to be late.
too like because sometimes like because i want to go on dates the same days the restaurant gets busy right like you want that you won't you want days on friday saturdays right so like sometimes like all right 9 30 this place and she'll go there and then my restaurant's fucking busy as fuck so i show up like 10 30 and so they get kind of mad they do get kind of mad i haven't i felt bad there was one girl i think like waiting on the street for like two hours
Waited on the street for two hours? Yeah. And she waited for two hours. She was willing to wait for those two hours. Well, I told her I'm coming. She must have really liked you. Yeah, she didn't really like me. I felt bad. I felt bad. So the girls that you dated, were they burger fans? Yeah.
No, they were not burgers. They don't like burgers. No, I don't think they like burgers. Well, they were Charles fans. Charlie's fans. Yeah, they were Charles fans. That's the irony of it. They wanted a different meat. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Yeah. They wanted a Tassel. Charles' personal statue. The personal...
So here's a question. I mean, we were talking on another episode about how we feel about marriage and, you know, at a certain age. Like, are we too late? Are we too early? So how do you feel about coming from America, living in China now for a bunch of years, you know, different cultures? How do you feel about dating here? What's it like? Is it a big difference? Do you feel positive or negative in general with local girls? It's okay. I'm used to it now.
But what are you used to? What is it that you're used to now? What is that? American girls and Chinese girls are different, right? Tell me how. How? Yeah, I'll give you some more, too. It's just different. But, you know, I like Chinese girls now. Different in what way, though? Sorry. Different, let's say...
Well, it's hard to tell. I'm probably not going to be used to American girls. Well, no, I probably like American girls too. Well, you're still not establishing the differences. What is the differences? What is like the general differences? General differences. I'll say it's, fuck, it's different. I can't even tell you how. See, I don't, knowing Charles, I don't think he cares about the differences. Right? I think he appreciates it.
But it's very different. And I don't think you're prejudiced one way or another between... I mean, alright, so... I think one prejudice a lot of people have against Chinese girls are Chinese girls like guys with money, right? Or they care about money more. When I first got here, I'm like, yeah, Chinese girls are so materialistic. But I don't think it is, though. So after being here for a long time,
In China, it's kind of like there's not really a middle class like America. In America, you can just be middle class and you live a really good life. But in China, it's tough. I think in China, it's either you're poor or...
where you're well off. There's not really like... Well, it's not that big, but it's the fastest growing segment. It is. But the reason why they're so materialistic still, though, maybe one day I think they'll get better. But the healthcare system, America, I think that's a huge difference. So America, you save the people first, then you charge them. Because I was poor growing up.
My family was poor so we couldn't afford like like fucking Medicare shit. All right, so I'll just get like every time I get sick I go to ER then like you give me a bill and we don't pay. It's okay, it's just how it is. America, they have to treat you. And they bill you as you walk out and like you cannot pay and that you still walk out. But in China,
So what brought me to China was actually my dad having a heart attack. Well, he had a few. But one major one he had, he was rushed. We called an ambulance. We got to the hospital. Then once we get to the hospital, he's on the stretcher. They just put him on the floor.
Right. Because, because in China, it's you pay first and they'll treat you. So they, so they put him on the floor and my dad was like fucking dying. And he's like, go pay. Right. I'm like, I'm like, oh fuck. Right. Okay. Then I had to like run to the 挂号. Right. Like you still have to 挂号. And it's really crazy, man. So my dad could have died. So after 挂号, I had to go pay the specialized division. I'm like,
I know what you mean. Yeah, so I had to, like, wait fucking, like, two lines, right? I'm like, shit, yeah, like, my dad could, like, die any minute now. So it's like, but of course, like, you know, that one thing was I think the Medicare system is fucked up. But imagine I didn't have money, right? Like, it's good that I had money. So, you know, my dad's, like, alive and kicking. He had a few surgeries already. But if I don't, like, imagine a girl's family is poor, right? And they can't care for the...
their elderly and yeah she probably wants someone who's security who yeah who's yeah security right like so you can't blame them for like I think at least for in the past I think slowly it's changing now too right like I think I think it's changing and I think you're absolutely right it's it's easy for us having lived in the western system to kind of come here and judge um
But, you know, had we grown up in the same kind of environment, the same kind of, you know, more recent historical background that China has been through, you know, we would probably feel the same way. You know what I mean? Your priorities shift in terms of what is real and what is not for you. You know what I mean? What is life and death? What are actual real material impacts on your livelihood, right? Yeah.
So we take things for granted. Things that we completely take for granted over there, you can't actually get over here. No, you cannot. So if you grew up here...
and you couldn't get healthcare for your family, then everything you're trying to do is to ensure that you can take care of your family. Yeah. You see, you see what a big difference having some money actually makes, you know, and they're not, and they're not like just cosmetic differences or, or petty differences. These are real differences. That's right. And sometimes even life and death. So,
So, you know, we come here and we judge, oh, he cares about money, but it's not entirely true. There's a reason, and there's a good reason why, you know, their priorities might be a little different from us who've kind of more or less have had it good coming from... There are two sides to this. There is the...
Gucci LV Balenciaga side of the business but there is this part but we have that in the states as well right that equivalent I think there is that side and that's what we focus on but the side that Charles has shared with us is this it also exists just as prominently but we don't talk about this side yeah
Yeah. But I think going, just adding on to what you're saying about the whole... Man, your face is really red. Yeah, it's when I drink. Jesus. Yeah, when I drink, I turn red. My God, I'm going to take you off camera. Yeah, when I drink, I turn red. Dude, you know he gets self-conscious about it. Why do you have to bring that up? It's all right. It's all right. I've never thought that as a big deal. I don't know. Is it all alcohol? Yeah, but today it's like, it's just alcohol. He literally is like, like beaming red. He's like... No, because some people are allergic to sunburn or not. You look like you have a massive sunburn. No, you know... Do you know why?
Do you know why? It's because my breathing gets constricted because I'm allergic to alcohol. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, every time... Drink more. Cheers. Cheers. I'm used to it now. I should not be, but... He's always allergic. Don't worry. We'll go out for you. No, every time... Once it touches the lips, you know... At the club, though, I never... Because it's dark. It's dark in the bar. You can't really tell.
It's like glowing in the club. So anyway, so going back to what you're saying about the whole middle class. No, I have one more question. All right, go ahead. Is it all red or patchy? It's patchy. It's patchy. Okay, okay. It's patchy. Okay, all right. Yeah. I'm just curious. It's redder than normal. I think this rum has something. Maybe. I never drink rum. But the way I feel right now is pretty typical to when I drink. Yeah, it's normal.
Why are you laughing? No, I'm laughing because it's funny that they're like bringing this up. Especially Charles wants to know. The worst is I have a friend that like turns patchy on his face though. Oh, really? Yeah. So he looks like a panda when he's drinking. I turn patchy if I keep drinking.
So I always say I have three levels of drunkenness, right? So my first level is I turn pink. So I start getting a little flush, right? Then I turn red, which is what I am now, which is I'm feeling a little bit. I'm not drunk, but I start feeling it, right? And then when I get drunk or wasted, then I get like pale with patches of pink and red. Like that's when I'm like. I have a friend like that. Like the last stage is they go back to being pale. But like more, even more pale or like green or like.
Because then it's really patchy. Then I'm really patchy. I don't know what causes that. It's allergies. It's not deadly. It's amazing. Yeah, and they say that if you take Pepsod AC before drinking. Yeah, it helps. It's like literally. It's like a superpower. Like he fell asleep like on the beach.
Yeah, yeah, like 20 hours. I've literally come back to work. Do I turn around? No, you're good. Sometimes I turn red. People thought like I just came back from like a resort or something. I'm like, no, I just got drunk. You're like, oh, look who's been relaxing on the beach while we all been working. All right, go, go.
So yeah, going back to the whole middle class thing. Because that's also a revolution that I had as well. After a while, realizing the whole, you know, coming from middle class in America. And the middle class is still majority in America. But here, the middle class is less. But growing, but less. But even like, I would say like, same middle class. America is like, just...
Your life is so much better than the middle class here. Depending on how you define middle class here then. Because in China to get the same lifestyle as a middle class in America, it'll be like... Well, because the standard is lower here. But over time, it'll even out. You know what I mean? China's on the come up. But we're here with... Let's say I graduate in the States, right? Like my friends...
They graduate, they make, what, 80K, right? That's a good salary, right? But, like, wife and husband make 80K, that's 160K, right? And, like, with that, they can buy a house, they can buy a car, right? Like, everything they want. That's above middle, that's, like, middle class, upper echelon, middle class, though, 80K. 80K is high middle class, upper middle class. Okay. Right? But that's, like, a working salary. That's, like, if you're... It's pretty good. You've been working for a few years. 80K is decent. Yeah.
But you have to think of it as like a bell curve, right? So the middle class is defined by what that country's lower class is and what the country's upper class is, right? So in China, historically, that's a very wide gap, right? So the poor is really poor, much poorer than the American lower class, right? So that's going to spread that bell curve out, making that middle class
middle, right, which is the middle class lower. But as the country, as, you know, the economy here improves, as society here improves, as the company, I mean, not the company, as the country develops in general, that upper class, that needle is going to start moving a little more higher, a little more. I think I think I think I spoke wrong. Let's say not say middle class. Let's say a working class. Because ADK is a
like a workable salary in the States. It's more than workable. It's higher than the average salary. I don't think so. If you're a white collar, if you're a white collar. It's like 35 to 40. Yeah, the average salary is like 30. ADK is upper middle class. 35 to 40 is like average. Really? Yeah. But like, if you say you get... All America. All America. Okay, so I don't know. So he just realized he wasn't poor growing up. He was upper middle class. No, no, no. Okay.
Growing up, we were definitely poor. You fancy, fancy, I'm just kidding. In what way? Like, because my parents are first generation, right? Like, so, like, my parents brought pots and shit to America when we went. Pot? Like, pots. Oh, pots. Yeah, like, no, no, no, so, so, like, no, we were, like, I would say my parents are, like, so one thing is I do look up to my dad, right? Because my parents, both of them, right? Because, so, they were, I think, like,
Like when we went to the States, because at the time, like even though we're in Shanghai, we're like kind of well off. But the exchange rate was like 1 to 12, right? Yeah. Yeah. So 87, that was the year that it was 1 to 12. And also the average salary at the time was 30 RMB. What? Yeah. Check it, man. At the time, it was 30 RMB. Back in 87? Back in 87. A month? A month.
But I mean, everything was cheaper. Is that average countrywide? Holy cow. You mean countrywide? That was Shanghai. Damn, dude. Your burgers cost more than that. Yeah, no. But at the time, like, if you buy a dà bìng, it was like five cents or something. Oh. So everything was cheaper. Must be. Yeah.
So my dad was like, he was doing well, like he made like 200, right? When people were making 30. So he was like, he was rich. He was rich in China. Popping bottles in the club and shit, right? Popping baijiu on the street. Think about this though, like, so he was already making 200. But then like, that's only when you change it to USD, that's what? 30 bucks. Oh no, 12? 8 bucks. 8 bucks. We're talking about 8 bucks USD. No, no, no. It'd be like 4. 18. 18.
Not 18, man. It's 1667, actually. 200 divided by 12? Yeah, 1667. Oh, yeah, 1616. Yeah, there you go. 17. So he took his whole savings, which is like 100 USD at the time, which is a lot to America, right? But America is already expensive at the time. How did he get over it? No, my dad was a student.
So he went to school. It was like a student exchange thing or something? Liuxue ma. So my dad was a good student. Overseas. So he did well. In New York? No, so first destination was Hawaii. Yeah, but you know, he took everything he had. That sucks, shitty weather. Yeah, 100 bucks, right? So their first, like, but in the US, I think their first job was a nanny.
They had to take care of an older person like a grandma. So my dad needed his work-study visa. I think it was four hours to go to class every day by walking. Or he could take a bus for 50 cents. But my dad walked every day. That's crazy. Yeah, to save 50 cents USD. Then...
At the time my dad also got some serious health issues because the grandmother would only give my parents as much to eat as she was eating, but she was like 80.
My parents are like 30 something. She was eating like a bird. But that's how much food she would allocate to my parents too, right? So my mom was like sufficiently fed. That's why he's in the food industry. No, but we were like super poor, I think, as a kid. Wait, you grew up in Hawaii? No, no, no. So then like after one year of that, my parents like, so they decided to like, fuck it. So they actually became illegal immigrants. They flew to New York and became illegal immigrants.
And they started working in restaurants. So they were waitresses, waiters. But then what happened was they got lucky because of the Tiananmen Massacre. I don't know if we can talk about that one. But it happened. And America gave all the illegal Chinese immigrants visas. Really?
Really? Amnesty. I didn't know that. So that's how my parents became legalized again. So that was like just luck of timing, really. They got super lucky. Wow. Yeah, they got really lucky. I didn't know America gave amnesty. No, America is kind of like, it's also like a battle, like a Cold War. Yeah, they did it to kind of win over hearts on the international stage. It wasn't out of the kindness of the government. No, because it was not like, no, you have to do shit for this one.
So my parents had to participate in the rally, the anti-China rally. It was propaganda. Yeah, it was propaganda. You had photo evidence, you were in the rally, then they give you that visa. But of course, all the illegal immigrants didn't. So that's how they became legalized. So we lived in basements. But it was until like...
I think I was 14 when my parents made some money. Wow. So do you remember all this? Sorry, I'm tearing. No, from allergies. Sure, you're talking about your history. No, but do you remember any of that? Yeah, man. I remember, so I went to the States when I was 5.
And the first room I lived in was like a... It was like a fucking shitty-ass room, man. And I... So I lived with like a drunk... Oh, they moved to Hawaii first and you were in Shanghai. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. And then, wow. Because it was like...
They didn't think it was easy to take me around. So after they migrated to New York, they brought me over. But then like the first room, I remember this very clearly to this day. I turned on the light and the fucking room moved because there were so many fucking cockroaches. Oh, fuck. Like the wall was moving because it was just cockroaches. I was like, oh, fuck. So ever since then, I've been really scared of cockroaches. It's been a phobia of mine. Because when you see a room moving,
A wall of cockroaches? It gets like really intense. It's like traumatic. It's traumatic, man. That was traumatic for me. Like, I was like, why is the wall moving? And I was like, oh shit, those are cockroaches. Oh, it's like if I just see one cockroach, I'm like freaking out already, right? I think you saw a whole wall of cockroaches. No, no. It was like a wall. Like the wall was moving. That is disgusting.
Jesus. So you had this like, kind of okay life in China and you didn't know the difference but you were like, you know, a little bit more well off than everyone else. And then you go to like America and it's like fucking cockroaches. So that's like really a shock, right? But it's also different. America was so rich at the time. It was a shock for me. Like I was a farmer, man. I went to America, they were like,
Cars? No, there were cars. No, there was hot water. Even in my shitty apartment, there was hot water. In China at the time, there was no hot water. In 91, we didn't have hot water. We had to boil hot water. The rich family, my grandmother was rich. We had a water boiler, but it was like...
It's just limited man, like you can only take a shower for so long before it like it runs out. It doesn't continue. So there was hope. So even though you had cockroaches, then you were like, oh there's hope. And then now you're back in China. I still thought America was awesome. I got super fat as a kid. Cause like, you know, like America had Coke and chocolate. Shit that, like yo for real man. You have a big sweet tooth, awesome. Yeah, like in two years I gained like so much fucking weight. Cause in China like they didn't have Coke, they didn't have shit. Do you remember your first burger?
Fuck, I don't remember. Probably McDonald's. I still like it, though. I still like McDonald's. I remember I couldn't finish the Big Mac, but I think they've shrunk it. You couldn't finish the Big Mac? No, when I was a kid. When I was like six or seven. What are you? You can't finish a Big Mac. No, six or seven, man. When I was six or seven. And I think the Big Macs before were much bigger. I know.
And I think they shrunk them. I think they shrunk them. I could not finish a Big Mac. Well, it's because you're little. Yeah, I was little. Yeah, I mean, that's why, you know. Well, what was, Charles, what was your growing up in the States? You know, not necessarily when you're young, but just having your whole life. What was, what would you say was your favorite fast food burger in the States? Like whole life or? Yeah, like looking back now, what would be your favorite fast food burger? Shishak.
Shake Shack? Yeah, I really like Shake Shack. I mean, East Coast...
We only had Shake Shack, right? Fast food. No, but Shake Shack... But yeah, okay. Well, so... But Shake Shack came out more recently, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I said. My whole life or... So if your whole life looking back right now... What would you crave? You think Shake Shack trumps all the other burgers? I would not say it trumps, but it's my most recent favorite. Like in the States, right? What did you crave when you were a kid? So a different period, I think I liked different stuff, right? Like as a kid, it was McDonald's. But I liked all of them. Sometimes it was Wendy's, right? And Wendy had good nuggets.
Oh, you like Wendy's nuggets? I did. I did like Wendy's nuggets. I never got the Wendy's nuggets. I think... I was never big into Wendy's. I was up with the Wendy's chili. I think Frosty was good. I think any nuggets are good. Like, I mean, basically, it's like even frozen. Like, whatever. Like, all nuggets are... They can't be that bad, right? All nuggets are not created equal, but somehow nuggets are just the highest level of food. Yeah, but you can't beat McDonald's nuggets. No, you can't. Cannot. No. Okay, I think one chain I didn't like forever was Burger King. Mmm.
Really? It was, like, I could eat it, but it was never, like, on top of my, like, it was. It was never in my top three. Yeah. But a lot of people preferred, a lot of people I knew preferred Burger King, like, over anything else for some reason. No, I never liked Burger King. And it was, like, I never hated it. Yeah, I don't hate it. It's around. I'll eat it. I'll enjoy it. The Burger King chicken sandwiches were the best. Oh. The Italian sandwich. The long ones. The Italian sandwich. But they're different now, though. So good. I remember growing up, they were really delicious, but I think they're different now. Yeah, maybe. Maybe.
My favorite burger from a fast food chain in the United States was Hardee's.
I remember Hardee's. So, Carl's Jr. and Hardee's are owned by the same group, right? The same company. And they're kind of like sister brands, even though the logos look very similar and their color schemes are very similar. But, you know, like, Carl's Jr. is more of like the West Coast kind of like burger chain. Hardee's is more of like the southern, like homegrown kind of like... Oh, interesting. Yeah, like style. And...
I was almost like kind of like I was confused because I only saw like I saw I only knew Hardee's and then one day I saw Carl's Jr. I'm like wait that looks just like Hardee's and I thought they were copying Hardee's. They're owned by the same company. But Hardee's I never had a Hardee's I don't think. I didn't see them around but I looked it up one day and Hardee's is actually the bigger chain out of between Carl's Jr. and Hardee's. Hardee's has more locations than Carl's Jr. does. And you're saying it's a better burger than
Really? The best. But I never found it anywhere else. I found it in a few places in Pennsylvania. And then outside of that, I never like in another few places around the East Coast. But other than that, I never saw Hardee's anywhere else after that. That's weird. So I never had an In-N-Out burger. Nor I. So I want to try it because everybody told me how awesome it is. Yeah. Wait, can I just say something? Yeah.
Does anybody know Roy Rogers? Oh, fuck yeah. New York, man. Alright. The fries at Roy Rogers? No, I'm just saying in general. Roast beef. The roast beef sandwich. Roy Rogers was good. It was good, but
I would still rather have a McDonald's than a Rogers. Yeah, they had curly fries. That's what I'm saying. The fries were the main high point for me, not their sandwiches. I mean, the sandwiches were okay. I don't remember. It was really young before they started. Well, they had the roast beef, the dip. Yeah, I used to enjoy Roy Rogers because of their Fixin's bar. Yeah. I don't even remember that. They always had the peppers and all that shit. I'm a sucker for Fixin's bars. That's why I used to love Quiznos back in the day.
Because Quiznos, you can go and just do your own sauces, and then you just dip your sandwich in all these sauces and just eat it. You know what I mean? When Quiznos came out, it was a game changer, I felt. But then it was disappointing how they did. Well, they slipped. They slipped. But when they came out, they were strong for a while. Because they toasted the sandwiches. They were toasted sandwiches. It was hot sandwiches. They had the Fixton's bars where you can go and just get all your sauces and dip your... It was amazing. Yeah.
It got me through college. Is this all alien talk to you? Because you're from Texas. We had Quiznos. But I didn't feel that emotional connection. What was your favorite? So... Fast food chains. I mean, growing up, I also had that same sort of McDonald's versus Burger King. I think it was a lot of just the aesthetics of the place. You go into McDonald's, it's bright, it's white, it's great. And then Burger King was darker or whatever, right? So I was a McDonald's guy, but we had Wendy's.
um we had jack-in-the-box jack-in-the-box jack-in-the-box was very innovative that's very west coast yeah they were very innovative we had arby's and then we had like in texas we other than burgers we love fried chicken yeah so we had pie pies we had pop eyes yeah pop eyes like oh churches have you heard of churches churches is good yeah churches is good so and then and then burger wise like maybe i don't know if you guys heard like what a burger
I've heard of Whataburger. Whataburger's in Shanghai now. Yeah, I don't know. Is that a real Whataburger? Yeah. It tastes really good. Yeah, the Whataburger is not that good. Where is it?
Some of these places are differentiated by their hours. And so I agree with Charles. Growing up, when you're a kid, you have a certain sort of preference. But then you get a little bit older, you start going out a little bit more, and then you get exposed to more stuff. Different stages. So like Whataburger was like, during college, it was all about Whataburger. They were the only ones open. But then now, In-N-Out, definitely. I remember going out to the West Coast the first time, whenever, right? And people were talking about In-N-Out, In-N-Out, In-N-Out.
I had it and I was like, it's pretty much as good as advertised. It was that good. It's good. I'm not going to say it's not good because it's good. I enjoy In-N-Out Burger. But in my experience, the hype definitely exceeded how I felt about it. Because people were really hyping it up. So just like you, when I first moved out to L.A.,
Everyone was like, you haven't had In-N-Out? You haven't had In-N-Out? People were surprised. I had never even heard of In-N-Out. The level of hype is crazy. When you move out there, the first thing people say is In-N-Out. Because there's no In-N-Out on the East Coast. And I grew up in New Jersey and New York all my life. So when I moved out to LA, I'd never even heard of In-N-Out. So I'm like, what the hell is In-N-Out? And people were telling me, how do you not even know In-N-Out? So they took me to eat In-N-Out, right?
And, I mean, it was good. I mean, it's a good burger. It's good stuff. But I was expecting a lot more just because of the hype, right? So it wasn't. The level of hype is like, this is the level of hype. The level of hype is like you tell people you're going to California and like five out of ten people, the first thing they will say is, oh, you got to go to In-N-Out. Like, I mean, the conversation is not even about food. Yeah.
And then you go to In-N-Out, right? But I remember going there and thinking the hype level was here and the experience was basically like, I mean, and it was one of those things where like you were constantly thinking about how can I go to In-N-Out? Well, I think a lot of it with In-N-Out is the fact that, you know, they make their fries, like they cut their potatoes fresh daily, right? So they're more about like, I guess, like, you know, better quality meat and stuff like that. Because In-N-Out is not that cheap, right? Yeah.
I don't know if it was the same time you were there.
They would only put in and outs in like these remote areas, right? Like you'd drive on Interstate 5 or whatever it is, and they would be like in remote towns. Like none of them were in like downtown anywhere. So you have to drive out to Gilroy in the Bay Area or down, you know, so they placed them in, I think there's some religious sort of like background of the company. Kind of like Chick-fil-A where they were probably more like. Oh yeah, so Chick-fil-A is another one. Have you guys heard like Chick-fil-A, like.
They just got caught donating to anti-algae
LGBT yeah they don't they every year they donate a lot of money to anti-gay or is that is that true or is that just true it's true it's true it's on CNN or something oh shit like Chick-fil-a because Chick-fil-a is highly religious the owners the family that owns it yeah is is is known to be highly religious yeah they hate gay people yeah and they're very controlling with like you know gay people should not eat fried chicken well no they should you're
you probably should not eat Chick-fil-A probably that's ridiculous that's terrible well they've had controversies against even minority I mean it's I don't know their stuff is their stuff is really I was about to say how good it was Chick-fil-A I love it I love eating I love it I'm gonna say that like I support LGBT I support all that stuff so like yeah I'm probably not gonna eat at Chick-fil-A anymore but I've been knowing that but I
I still like Chip and Dave, but I just think like... So good, though. No, this is just the craziest company, man. Their business is still good, but they're like... They're just openly racist. It's so racist. They're racist. They're like anti-gay. You know what that proves, though? Because especially in this climate... Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That they're able to weather that storm and people are still gonna eat their food just proves like how good their stuff actually is. Because if it wasn't that good, given like the political climate we're living in, like, you know, they're living in the States now, like, people would just... But it's also their location. No, I think you're wrong. I think it's not only about how good it is. I think it's the fact that they're marketing to these people. America is split. Yeah.
Because even if they are racist, there's still that huge market of people that support that. Or don't care. In other words, if you go in, if you did a demographic survey, first of all, their locations are in probably more racist cities. More south. Generally stereotypical. For the most part, you think? Probably for the most part. Because they're all over Manhattan. But you're not going to find thousands of them in LA or something like that. Or Austin or whatever. Right.
Manhattan's new. Like, they're more still in the South. And then I bet you if you go and you did like exit surveys, like demographics, like, I don't know, 80% of the clientele is racist. You know, it's almost like they're starting to target that. Well, that's a fact. That's just your... Yeah, but it's funny though. They're so racist. My feeling. But like in the New York shop, you see black people like in there all the time. It's like, but they're openly racist.
There are black people that are racist. No, but they're racist against black people, I think. Are they though? I mean, is that something that's... I mean, they get caught. They get caught. They get caught doing stupid shit all the time. So it's a southern company? Yeah. From the south? They have like deep south roots? Georgia. I think it's Georgia. Is it Georgia? They're deep Christian roots, definitely. Like they
Deep Christian and Deep South, man. Those two don't mix too well. You know what I mean? How funny is that stereotype that we have? Yeah, right? They don't even open on Sundays. That's how crazy they are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As a restaurant, man. As a restaurant, you don't open on Sundays. They're a fast food chain that doesn't open on Sundays. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that just goes to show you how strongly committed their principles are. Whether you agree with their views or not, they're just that committed to them. You know what I mean? So, like, you know... But here's a question that, I mean...
I like to talk about is we have that stereotype of over religious and Southern. Yeah. Right. And just like you said, you put those two together. It's not a good formula. Right. But that's a stereotype. It is. Right. It is because I know plenty of people that are very religious and from the South that are very open-minded and they're very cool. Right. So it's like,
How much fact is that coming from, that stereotype? Well, it might be getting less now, but I think it's, you know, because all stereotypes come stem from a certain amount of truth. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been stereotypes to begin with, right? So if historically speaking, you know, in the United States, you know, that was definitely true, historically speaking.
So how what the population of people from the south, let's say that are racist or, you know, prejudice against, you know, or have homophobia or whatever. I don't know what that statistic is, but I would trust it's gone down since, you know. So let me let me let me clarify here. I mean, so Wikipedia, right?
generally trustable. I don't know. It's not, you know, it's not a hundred percent foolproof, but in 2008, as of 2018, just to provide a little context, Chick-fil-A reportedly continues to quietly donate to groups like fellowship of Christian athletes and
And this is considered an anti-LGBT group, which opposes great gay marriage. I remember growing up in Texas and we had fellowship of Christian athletes. Like it was in my school and I did, I didn't have a, you know, like the perception wasn't as probably sort of negative here. They probably, you know, so they probably, unfortunately they support certain things based on their values. Um,
But I don't know if it's as sinister as... Well, you never know because... But I don't support... Even if they were sinister, these groups are not going to name their group like, oh, we hate gays. You know what I mean? They're always going to name something that's kind of like ambivalent, right? So...
you know, they're going to, it's like, they're kind of like shell companies for companies that are like, you know, laundering money or whatever it is. Right. So they form these groups. They have a very kind of ambivalent name that doesn't really swing one way or the other. That's, you know, you can't hate on the name, but you know, they're, they, you know, they're, they're, they're exists, exists groups that do have sinister, sinister means, you know, their whole, their whole like kind of a mission, right.
is to, let's say, you know, go against, you know, gay rights or whatever it is. They're just not named outright by that. So it's not obvious. Yeah. Some of it is like, it's just like the purpose or the mission of the organization may be just normal, but then they have this negative aspect to it because it's part of their values. And then some of them are like their mission is to promote negative values. Right. And so you can't, you know, and it's really, you know, it's unfortunate for the ones that
are not doing it for sinister means that just happen to have certain values that may not be agreeable to other groups. But then they get categorized into this kind of group of umbrella under this umbrella of like, oh, you're just racist, bigoted. Whereas the other ones escape detection. So they actually take the hit. Exactly. But they're not, you know. So the whole situation is really fucked right now. It's really weird. It is a lot of sketchy. And people tend to think in generalities instead of
things as individuals or groups as individuals, right? So, you know, we're all guilty of it. We just lump, you know, once we hear, like you say, hear keywords like, oh, you're deeply religious or Christian or Southern, all of a sudden our minds trigger to, oh, we're just going to lump you into this category of this racist group of, you know, like, you know, who wants to go back to the way things were in the South, right? Yeah.
But that's not true. It's the biases. It's like the natural cognitive bias. The problem is that's how everyone thinks. It shouldn't be. Yeah, so that's the problem. You have to be more thoughtful. You have to be more thoughtful. You have to take things on an individual basis. Totally. Yeah, but I'm sorry. General public, if you want the general population, the majority to be like that, that's Tom Cruise. That's Tom Cruise. What does that mean? It's Mission Impossible.
So bringing this back... How long have you had that locked in? I love it. I love waiting for that. But I'm saying, seriously, it's mission impossible to change the general public. And that's why you have a lot of debate. You have a lot of the polar left and polar right that will never change the other side because they're so deep set in their values. That's why they say individuals are smart. Populations are dumb. As a population or as a group...
you know it's groupthink yeah it's groupthink and we all become our IQ is completely dropping everything just goes out the window but when you speak to people individually you know everyone seems to be you know pretty smart for the most part so bringing this back to Shanghai and to Charlie's you know as you sort of expand your business are there certain values that you stand for yeah yeah becoming the number one burger joint in China no no like
- There's a lot, right? There's a lot. - Well, what about like how you manage your employees? - Yeah, what's your value system? If you're gonna tell your employees or anybody-- - It doesn't have to be to customers, but even like just to your own employees, your own people, running a company, right? - Yeah, I mean, so I actually, like Charlie's actually don't have a value system. But then if I had to say and put one, it's like, I want my staff to be able to like,
I changed their lives to Change their lives and their lives so you want so in other words Charlie's as a platform for your staff to be able to change your life so one of my things is I give back like 20% to my staff right funny process Okay, a profit and then I and you think we're doing this like if you come to me with a good business idea or like and like
I'll front you the money. Then you also give 20% to your staff. But you get 5% yourself. So that's what I take from my business, 5%. A profit share, no salary. And if you're the owner, that's what you get. So you can come to me and say, I want to open a noodle shop. I'm like, sure. Give me a good business plan, if it makes sense.
If I can pay for your shit, I'll open this noodle shop. You run it. You're the owner. You give 5% profit. You give 15% to your people too. That's cool. I think that's pretty noble. I mean, that's a value system that you have. You just say you don't have, but you do. We don't really have a value system. Have you had any good business ideas come through this system so far? I mean, my Cantonese shops...
It's through profit sharing. And it's doing really good. Really good. What would you say are the biggest differences you've noticed between running a Western restaurant versus a Chinese restaurant in China? Chinese restaurant is so easy. So easy? Much easier? In what way? Like...
So my Chinese restaurant is not known for service. So we yell at the customer all the time. If you read our Dian Ping, there's actually Dian Ping where the owner tells the customer to get the fuck out. Because we do. I'm like, "Guan ba." But you can do that. In a Chinese restaurant, you can do anything the fuck you want. We had the cops come because we threw customer shit out the window.
Why? What were they doing? Because they brought their own bottle of alcohol, right? And we're like, no, no, you don't have to bring alcohol. But it was my dad. So then my dad was like, no, no, you can't drink. And then my dad just took the bottle and threw it out the window. And they called the cops.
But then we have stupid shit like that. That's pretty awesome. It's hardcore. We have stupid shit like that all the time. And our business is still blooming. Can you imagine us eating blue frog? I'm like, yo, get the fuck out of my restaurant. Like, blue frog will die tomorrow, man. Well, that's the whole American or Western mentality of the customer is always right. And...
And I'll never forget when I was in college, my first job when I was 18 in the summer was working in a restaurant. And that manager at the time taught me something that I totally loved. He's like, you know, you're always here in restaurants. The customer's always right. I'll tell you one thing right now. Bullshit. The customer's always wrong.
And we're like, what? It's like, yeah, if the customer's giving you shit because they have attitude and they're just trying to cause shit because they think they're right, kick them the fuck out. Like, don't take it. Don't take it. It's not worth it because that guy is not worth it. I'm like, damn, okay. He's like, you got to think of the big picture. Okay. Because it's like the small percentage of people that are assholes. Like the small percentage are extra assholes.
They're talking about reason.
You know what I mean? Then yeah, 你也讲道理 That's normal I feel like Western restaurants, you deserve They demand better service Chinese restaurants, I fuck you, man Well, do you think that's just because of the Do you think that's because you're a Western restaurant Or more because a Western restaurant attracts different clientele? No, because I think in China People expect better service from Western restaurants
It's all about expectation versus reality, right? Everything is about what you expect versus what you get. When you walk into a Chinese restaurant, you're just not expecting good service. So when the service is not good, it's okay. But when you go to a Western restaurant, you expect...
Better service. So when they don't give it to you, then you're not well. But I, but okay, so this is just an opinion. I have no idea if it's right or not, but I also think it depends on your environment, right? So if the environment is decent or seemingly upper level, then you're going to expect that type of service. But if you go to some shit hole in the wall restaurant, you expect them to be like, not care and like, whatever. Yeah. Because people know what they're walking into. I mean, there's a lot of factors, but I'm saying in the same environment,
If you go to a Western one and a Chinese one, they'll expect less service from a Chinese one. So, you know, so it's easy. Is that something because you've talked to people about that or is this your observation? No, even me, even how I behave, right? Like if I go to a fancy Western restaurant and the service fucked up, I'm like, man, that's kind of fucked up. But if I go to a fancy Chinese restaurant, I still think it's fucked up. So same price point, different expectations. I'll be like, it's okay. I'll be like, it's okay.
I don't know for you a little more lenient yeah yeah I still think it's fucked up but I'm like I think business is changing as well definitely changing I think I changed a lot but it's also major cities right I mean first tier cities some second tier cities that tier has definitely gone up it's an interesting topic anyway Charles thanks again for coming on we'll see you next time cheers bro cheers guys good luck with all your businesses thank you