Forging Sovereignty: Javier A. Hernandez On Puerto Rico’s Path To Independence
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This is the Finding Genius Podcast with Richard Jacobs.

Hello, this is Richard Jacobs with the Finding Genius podcast. My guest today is Javier Hernandez. He's a Puerto Rican author, writer, linguist, and an advocate for Puerto Rico's sovereignty. He's the author of a book called Prexit, Forging Puerto Rico's Path to Sovereignty. So welcome, Javier. Thanks for coming. Thank you. Thank you, Richard. We appreciate the opportunity to speak with everyone. Thank you. Yeah.

Well, tell me a bit about your background and then when did it catch in your mind that Puerto Rico should be more than what it is in relation to the U.S.? Great question. So I was born in Puerto Rico, but then when I was four, my parents moved to the U.S. So I would say I was raised in the U.S. pretty much my entire life. I went to kindergarten all the way up to college. As you can imagine. So, you know, I went to American schools my entire life and not in Puerto Rico.

And something interesting was being a Puerto Rican in American schools, you learn to love freedom. I mean, you know, George Washington, Jefferson, freedom and independence. You hear these concepts as a child and you aspire, you want to do that. But when I was a child, I still wasn't really cognizant or conscious of Puerto Rico in that way yet. It was too little. For me, Puerto Rico was just the place where my relatives live and that was it.

Then I would say when I got to high school was when I got a little more, you would say, consciousness-

about Puerto Rico and what's going on, the history. And then when I read Puerto Rican history, that was the eye-opener for me. I was like, what? I never knew all these things happened and you're totally, were kind of like kept from me, from my family. Like no one talked about it, no one discusses it. And then when you learn it, you know, the invasion, the persecution, the banning of the flags, this crazy history that no one just wants to talk about. But when you learn it,

It's actually really, really incredible. And that was eye-opening for me. And being raised in the U.S. as a Puerto Rican, I realized, and this is just my own personal experience. I can't say other people, this happens to them or they think this way. Maybe some do, some don't. But I realized early on that I'm Puerto Rican. I could never be an American. Even if I wanted to, even if I pretended to, I speak English. Even if I knew American history, I

I was never going to be considered an American. And I understood that. And that was fine. That was cool. Like, okay, I'm Puerto Rican. We'll move on. Well, you have been born in Puerto Rico. Do you have American citizenship or do you have to go through some rigmarole to get it? No, Puerto Ricans since 1917 are born citizens.

Okay, well, that's a little bit. Yeah, so we have that. But then even knowing that, like, if you just know that, it sounds okay, cool. But then when you read the history about how we got citizenship, it's actually crazy because in 1914, a few years before 1917, the Puerto Rican House of the Delegates, democratically elected, didn't want it. We're like, no, we're good. We don't want U.S. citizenship. We don't need it. We just want to be Puerto Ricans. But the U.S. Congress imposed it.

anyways, even though we didn't want it, we still got it. And then a week later, we got drafted to World War I. Also, too, because you're a citizen of the U.S., you were attacked as a U.S. citizen wherever you go and wherever you live. I know there's carve-outs for entrepreneurs and stuff like that, but

That's also another issue that I don't know if anyone talks about. U.S. citizen, you can live wherever you want. Unless you renounce it, you got to pay taxes, at least something. Yes. The U.S. is one of the few countries where an American citizen, no matter where you live, or even, for example, let's pretend, let's say you live in France for 20 years and

and you have a family there, you have your life there, you still have to pay taxes to the IRS, even though you have no, yeah. And I think there's like one other country in the world that does that. Usually. Like Eritrea or Ethiopia or something crazy. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Just Eritrea in the US. Not the only ones that do that. Every other country, if you live somewhere else, you don't have to pay taxes unless you live in the country. Yeah.

But as Puerto Ricans, we have to, you know, put up with all that, all these issues and situations that we had no say in. We had no vote in, nothing. It was just, you know, you got, you were made citizens and we're supposed to be aesthetically happy about that and move on. Which, you know, has benefits, of course, to travel and all that. But if we were independent, we would have our own citizenship, our own passports. We could still travel around the world. We could do stuff. Yeah, so there's that.

Are there any or many military bases in Puerto Rico that the U.S. has established or no? Yeah. In the past, there were a lot more. There were Ramey Air Force Base. There was Roosevelt Roads. And still today, there's Fort Buchanan in the San Juan metro area. And I think there's Fort Allen. It's like a little one in the south. So they're still there. The largest one, Roosevelt Roads, closed down years ago.

Ramey Air Force Base closed down and now it's an international airport. It's been given back to Puerto Rico. We're developing it. But there are still little military installations, little offices here and there. But the big base, I would say, would be Fort Buchanan in Metro San Juan area. That's still there. And yeah, that was like 1920s. The U.S. obtained that and they're still there. Yeah. I guess it's kind of like Hawaii. You know, Hawaii doesn't seem to really want to be part of the U.S. and

I've been there and it seems to like its differences and its own culture and its own things, which is fine. I didn't realize Puerto Rico is the same.

Yeah, I mean, Hawaii was even a little different. They were a sovereign nation. They were a kingdom with diplomacy and a sovereign nation. And they were a coup d'etat and they were taken over by force. But Puerto Rico, we were a Spanish colony. And then a few months before the U.S. invaded, we were finally given autonomy. We had legit, real autonomy with Spain.

And ironically, we had more when we had the autonomy. It lasted a few months, that era, that time. During that time, we had more freedom, economic, political freedom and civil rights under Spain than we do right now with the U.S. And that's crazy to think that because Puerto Rico under Spain, I mean, the last few months,

We could trade with foreign nations. We had our own parliament and everything. And then as soon as the U.S. invaded and came in, they closed everything down. We had a currency, devalued our currency, then abolished it, made us poor. We had a parliament disbanded, gone, disappeared, and it was replaced by a council of Americans. So, yeah, I mean, that's some of the really harsh history that many Puerto Ricans to this day still don't know.

Because you're not, in Puerto Rican schools, they don't talk about this. How is it presented? I mean, like, how are you spoken to? You guys are citizens of the U.S.? Like, how are you spoken to and treated? Yeah, so the schools in Puerto Rico have a colonial curriculum. I mean, it's very, very colonial. My parents and grandparents went through the same colonial system. And basically, the long and short of it is,

Spain was evil. The U.S. came in and saved us. And now we're happy. That's it. That's the nuts and bolts of Puerto Rican history when you learn it in Puerto Rico, in the Department of Education, which has a colonial, you know. And they just make you feel that you're nothing. I mean, it's like the U.S. is so huge and beautiful and large and bountiful. And we're just a little, little, little bit, a little nothing. They just keep...

saying that over for decades and decades. And then you have people who really, and sadly, believe that they're inferior. Like they really believe that without the U.S. we would die of hunger or something. I mean, but that's kind of ingrained. It's been taught to people that you're not born with that. It's been told and you have your grandparents repeat the same message of if we're free, we die.

You know, type of mentality. And it's sad. And then when you learn Puerto Rican history, the real history of persecutions and all the stuff that I'm telling you right now, people are amazed. They're like, what? I never knew that. And are totally in shock when they learn just basic regular Puerto Rican history is shocking because it's it's it's withheld for many people.

Yeah, I'd have to say anytime I thought of Puerto Rico, I'm like, okay, they're out, you know. I don't even know what you call it. Is Puerto Rico a protectorate of the U.S., or what is it legally called? Yeah, legally it's called the Commonwealth.

But technically, it's a colony. It's just a plain old colony that the U.S. doesn't like to call it, that says that it has colonies. It's embarrassing to say that, you know, the U.S. being democratic and it fought colonialism for its own independence. So, but you want to have colonies, but not call them colonies. So they call them Commonwealth, overseas territories. The preferred U.S. legalistic term is non-incorporated territory.

But it's a colony, you know? But, you know, basically I like to use the little situation. Imagine this. Imagine if I were, if I was an abolitionist, right? But I had a slave. But you come to my house for dinner and then you realize that I have a slave. Would you say something? Of course, right? You'd be like, hey, dude, you can't have a slave. Yeah, you'd mention that, right? You'd bring that up. But then I'm like, no, no, no, that's not a slave. That's my non-paid permanent employee.

I just give it some money. By non-paid, unwilling, permanent employee. Exactly. And that's fine. That's not slave. That's a stat. So I just change the name and pretend it's okay. No. You have a colony that you like to call a non-incorporated territory. It's a colony in all but, I mean, we in Puerto Rico, we call it colony. The UN calls it colony. The world calls it colony. Except America.

American politicians, they can't come to terms with saying that. So they'll come up with all these fanciful terms because they can't say it. It's like you can't see the seaworld. You can't see it because it's embarrassing, you know, to be to talk about freedom all over the world and then you have a colony.

It's embarrassing. So they don't talk, they don't say the C word. They'll just say that, you know, we, you know, our fellow Americans, that's another one. When they say our fellow Americans, no, we're not your fellow Americans. We're Puerto Ricans. You know, just because you made us citizens doesn't mean that now we become you. You know, and that's the thing. Like, yeah. So, yeah, it's really convoluted and complicated. There's a lot of history and passion and emotion with all this. But then again, you know, but like I tell people, like,

you know, I'm not an American, but I'm a U.S. citizen, but I would never consider myself an American. I'm Puerto Rican. And that's okay. I respect you if you're an American, great. I would like to be your friend and I respect you and your culture, but

Why expect me to try to pretend to be you? Like to pretend you, I mean, as if my culture wasn't good enough to aspire to and that I love, you see? So, for example, if France, if tomorrow France invaded Puerto Rico, took it over and made us French citizens, does that make me French? No, of course not. And kind of that's the same situation. I gotcha. Okay. Did you start the Brexit movement or who did?

And when and why did it start now? Yeah, you know, the independence movement, it's historic. I mean, it's like from the 18, 17, 1800s, you know. But the Brexit, Brexit movement, that just started kind of like when I started, when I published that book, the Brexit for Jim Puerto Rico's path to sovereignty. And yeah, I coined it like when the word, when Brexit, the real Brexit happened, I remember I instantly thought Brexit. Yeah. And then I thought that was really like a cool little, little word, like a little term.

And then a few years later, then I published the book for that. And basically, the book establishes, I mean, it goes a little bit history, some historical stuff that people may not know. I talk a little bit about that. But then not just describe history and leave it at that. I then propose independence, but with a plan, the actual proposals, not just like,

oh, we should be free and leave it at that. I mean, that should just be enough. But many people want more, more information. So I provide possible economic solutions, political. How could our republic look like? And those are issues that many people don't discuss. Or when you discuss it, it's like eye-opening. Like, oh,

We can have a republic. Should we have a president or a prime minister? Those are questions that people start, when you have people start talking about that, that's amazing. Because then you start... When you talk to people, are most people like, why do you care? We're fine. Are they just living their lives? Or is there a big component of people that are really taken by the idea?

Many are taken by the idea. I mean, again, you will find people that are like, hey, leave me alone. I'm fine, whatever. But you do have people who are very like, especially older people. In Puerto Rico, this is almost generational. Older people who went through a lot of the persecution, 50s and 60s and 70s,

I mean, they remember how really hard it was to be pro-independence. I mean, you could disappear. You could get killed. You know, crazy stuff where you lose your job. So there was a, you know, like a, shh, don't talk about that type of mentality. You know, now the young generation or young professional people

I've never gone through that. So they're more aware of the world, aware of Singapore, of other countries, and they're not scared of freedom. And many people sadly are in Puerto Rico, where the second you say, hey, we should be free, the first thing that comes into their mind is, no, we can't, we're too small.

No, we can't. How small is it? I mean, what's the population? Well, populations are now about 3.2 million. It used to be like, you know, 3.5. There's been a population decrease. But population... Is there a diaspora? Like, how big is the diaspora? What is the diaspora? Oh, diaspora is almost 6 million. There are more Puerto Ricans outside of Puerto Rico than in Puerto Rico. Our diaspora is huge. It's a huge diaspora. Yeah, it's huge.

What would happen if you clicked your fingers and Puerto Rico became a U.S. state? What would be different? What would you get? Fuller rights? Less rights? What do you think would happen?

be, I would say, a lot of political nationalism and infighting and conflict. Because many people, I mean, in the last public site that happened in 2024, last year, 43%, 43, okay, we're getting close to 50, right? Where 43 supported sovereignty. So those are people that are like, no, we want our freedom. Yeah.

And so if we became a state, I mean, you're going to have a state where almost half the population wants freedom, does not want annexation, does not want to assimilate, does not want to speak English only. And those are big issues that many, like the statehood movement in Puerto Rico, when they talk about statehood, they talk about it only for money. It's only an economic thing. It's only, hey, let's be from a state so we can get more welfare, more food stamps from these gringos. That's literally

What other benefits might you get if Puerto Rico became a state? It's just economic. It's just more dependency money, more food stamps. That's their selling point. Do you have more of a burden? Like do you, Puerto Rico didn't...

Yeah, like it was a tax break. Yeah, the taxes would go up because now we don't pay federal taxes, but then as a state we would. And the tax burden, the federal tax burden, plus the Puerto Rico tax burden would literally destroy the Puerto Rican economy. In 2014, there was a government accountability office report about that. And it literally said that if Puerto Rico became a state, it would destroy the Puerto Rican economy, just the taxes, right? It would increase federal spending to Puerto Rico

But then Puerto Rico itself, the economy would be, would crumble because of this huge tax burden plus the dependency. I mean, it'll be chaos, literally. I mean, this is not for me. It's from the Congress office that said this. And, but still, even with that report, the prostitute people in Puerto Rico are just like, eh, forget that, eh, whatever. Let's just ignore that, you know, whatever.

and are just focusing on, hey, let's get more money, more money. But what about simulation? What about being a state? I mean, when you become an American, you're a state, you want to be part of the U.S. family. Ah, no, that's, you know, we'll still speak Spanish. We'll still have an Olympic team. I'm like, no, you don't. Does Texas have an Olympic team? Does Florida have an Olympic team? No, they don't. New Jersey, no. So, but...

But these statehooders really think that Puerto Rico will become a state and will still be Spanish speaking, will have an Olympic team. You know, I mean, totally fanciful stuff that doesn't exist. But that's the version of statehood they sell in Puerto Rico. Because if they were to come out and tell the truth, no, sorry, guys, we would not have an Olympic team. We would have to all be with Team USA.

They would lose a lot of people, a lot of supporters. And that's literally what could owe them. Yeah. And Puerto Rico right now doesn't have an Olympic team. And we're proud of our people, our athletes. And believe me, whenever Puerto Rico is on anything, it could be chess, it could be badminton, anything with USA, it gets really passionate in Puerto Rico. We're like, Puerto Rico, Puerto Rico. So Puerto Rico is a win, yeah.

Okay. What would be the stages in order for a prurient to be independent? Like, how many signatures on a petition? What would be needed?

Yeah. So, I mean, we've tried to get that answer from Congress for 126 years and still no one said anything. A lot of times there have been a lot of bills that just appear out of nowhere, but have never been approved in Congress. They just kind of disappear and nothing happens. So we really don't know. The only thing was at the end of like, it was like 1989, 1991. That was the last time Congress seriously debated

Like the status issue, like what would happen if this happened? And with independence, they literally said that, yeah, we would support it. There would be a transition plan. We'd do some economic aid to help you become a republic. And then we'd probably establish some trade relationships, diplomatic relationships. Sounds good. The problem was statehood. Many Republicans and even some Democrats back in the early 90s did not want statehood, and they don't.

And that's always been the poison pill. Every status plebiscite that happens in Puerto Rico or any bill in Congress, the minute statehood is added, it's dead. It dies because it has no future in Congress. The American people don't want it. I mean, if Puerto Rico become a state, imagine this. We have a larger population than many states like Nebraska, Kansas. We are larger than them.

If we became a state, we would take away their congressional representatives because the Congress has to stay at 435. So when they do an apportionment, let's say Kansas has three reps, maybe next year they'll have two or one, whatever. So just that in and of itself, you know, will make many other states be like, no, we cannot have Puerto Rico state for that reason, for those political reasons. I see. I see that makes sense.

So you said like 43% appear to approve. What would be needed to force a vote to say? So right now, so recently, one of the things that we were pushing, because we've had many public sites,

And statehood always somehow wins. I mean, and that's a whole other conversation because they manipulate the votes because they control the electoral commission. You know, that's a whole thing. But even when they pretend, when they say they win, they're all ignored. Congress always ignores all the plebiscites. Okay, so seeing that for the past few decades, that's what happens. A group of Puerto Rico called Plan B Independencia, that

basically came up with the idea of, instead of asking Congress what to do next, because they just keep ignoring Puerto Rico, let's go straight to the executive branch. Because the president has the executive power, so he can literally just take an executive order and can sign

Puerto Rico and support independence and basically start that process. Congress would, you know, then support, especially if the Republicans control Congress. And if Trump is saying, hey, this is what I want, make it happen, it could happen. So there was a draft executive order that we helped write. It's circulated in Congress. It created a huge media storm and panic in Puerto Rico that

It was a media storm, but the panic was really more with the pro-statehood party because they for many years have just isolated everyone who is in pro-statehood out of Washington, D.C. Now they can't. Now we're independentistas. We're also in Washington. We're talking to congressmen, senators, and now they're in panic because we're actually being heard. They're actually opening the doors for us. We're having meetings.

What would happen? I mean, it doesn't seem like anything major would happen. What would I guess, you know, geopolitical security, they can say to Puerto Rico, like, you know, you'll have an obligation to align with us militarily. I mean, they could set terms. I guess it would be like release terms and they would probably try to extract the heavy price for your relief, unfortunately, you know.

And if that were the case, that would all be a negotiation. We'd love to be in a situation where we were sitting down with the American delegation and negotiate like an exit Brexit strategy, if you could call it that, our way to leave. But we want to leave, but on good terms, not unfairly.

you know, like, slobbling, yelling type of situation. Have a really nice, this isn't working, let's transition to independence, yet also be a U.S. ally, trade partner, strategic partner in the Caribbean. We can make that happen. We have a lot of interests in common. Some things we may not agree on, and that's okay. What does the U.S. get out of having Puerto Rico? I mean, yeah, what's the benefit? It's bragging rights. Hey, look what we control in the Caribbean, bragging rights. There's that.

And there's also, because they control our economy, we're a closed captive market. So we can really only buy American products.

Or we can only use American boats, kind of like it's called with the Jones Act of 1920 that forces Puerto Rico to use the American merchant fleet, which is expensive in the world. We can't, we can't, we're not allowed to create our own fleet or rent a foreign fleet. They're just cheaper. We have to use the American fleet, which is expensive and increases our imports. But then it benefits some American maritime companies and they have lobbyists and they benefit from it.

So there are groups and people that benefit from our servitude and they want nothing to change.

Because they're making money off of it. But, I mean, we're here to, I mean, I would love to negotiate with them and sit down with them and like, okay, we can all benefit. You know, we can make this a win-win for everyone. But in order for Puerto Rico to prosper in the future, we need our freedom. We need sovereignty to control our economy, our diplomacy, our borders. Right now, we need to control our borders.

Nothing. We control nothing. It's our colony. So we need to control our own nation. I think what will happen at some point in the future, this is likely to happen, this separation, but there'll be a heavy set of penalties. The U.S. is still undoubtedly going to want to control Puerto Rico. You may separate, but they're going to have some options for you, and I can't guess they wouldn't.

Because, you know, in the area that surrounds Puerto Rico, it's close to the U.S., very valuable. So they want to control it. No, and I'm sure there would be some, you know, pressure to be, you know, help support U.S. causes overseas. Fine. When we get to that, we'll get to that. Okay. But, I mean, and if that's the price, hey, I would pay that because at least we're free. At least we can be at the U.N. We can discuss these issues. We can help each other out.

internationally. And we can help support our economies. I mean, Puerto Rico would still buy American products. We wouldn't just be like, we never want to have any more American products again. No, we would, you know, further facilitate more trade.

But we finally have the power to improve our economy. Right now, we have a colonial dependent economy based off federal funds, based off begging for federal funds. We don't produce. Not because we can't, because we're not allowed to produce. What would be the biggest...

crops that Puerto Rico produce? Oh, well, I mean, in terms of agriculture, there's so many tropical, there's coffee, cacao, things that we can produce ourselves that grow in Puerto Rico very good. There's so many other crops. I would even include crops that people may not even be aware of too much, industrial hemp. That would grow, that would have like three or four seasons in Puerto Rico. And that's a national export crop. There's that, but then not just that, but then there's also manufacturing. We can, we can,

invite foreign firms and American firms to come to Puerto Rico, join ventures, all that, plus international trade. We can finally get Puerto Rican companies up and running and to expand in trade. Because right now, remember, as a colony, we're flows to international trade.

With independence, we could finally access global markets and improve our products, do X and all these other things. I mean, things that for the U.S. is normal, normal stuff. But for us, it would be finally the first time you can have global trade. Great. You know, oh, we can finally control our customs. We can put tariffs on goods and we can have tariff waivers. We can have tariff treaties with the U.S. and other countries.

I mean, there's so much potential. So in the book, Brexit, that I published, and then other ones, the one that came after that was Puerto Rico, the Economic Case for Sovereignty. That one goes more in depth about independence and the economy. There's so many proposals and so many revenue streams that a Puerto Rican republic would have access to that we could really grow our economy. I mean, just with the customs,

taxes, foreign corporate taxation, things that other countries already do. If we did them, they would really support our economic growth, our treaties with the U.S. We could have a free trade agreement with the U.S., special arrangements. I mean, there's so much that we can do. But again, we can have all this amazingness in paper.

but it means nothing if we don't have our freedom, if we don't have our sovereignty. Once we have our sovereignty, then we can finally implement all these plans, all these proposals, all these ideas to generate income so that we don't have to be dependent on the U.S. And that's the goal. See, the pro-statehood folks are all about dependence. They just want more, and I apologize for using, but this is how they refer to Americans. They want more gringo money. That's literally how they say it in Puerto Rico.

They would not say that to you. They would see when the statehooders talk to an Americans, they have this whole narrative set up. Oh, we're fellow Americans. We're just like you. They kind of try to give you the warm and fuzzies that we're also all Americans. But in Puerto Rico, when you're not there, when they're talking to the amongst Puerto Ricans, it's all about ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching. Money, money, money. They would never say that to you. But.

People were like, Haiti and other places and Jamaica. I mean, what a freaking mess. And yeah, there's been all kinds of nations trying to control them too. So I understand what you mean. Are you making any headway? Like, how, you know, how has the situation been for so long? Like, what's happening?

Well, the fact that 43% just voted in the past election, even with all the fraud that happened, still, we got 43%. That's a victory. That's amazing because back when persecution and repression was really, really rough, we would get two to 3%. And since that's kind of leveled off, since like, oh, it's like the 2000s onward,

It hasn't been as bad as it used to be. And then you have more people like millennials, younger people who are, you know, raised in Puerto Rico or raised in the diaspora

who have a new, different vision of the world. They've gone, they've traveled, they've seen other countries. They don't buy into the, well, we're little, we can't do it, you know, mentality. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, that's why. We have a lot of young people who support independence and professionals. And then when 2028 comes around, if there's going to be another plebiscite,

It's going to increase because there were people, there are a lot of young people that supported independence, but were too young to vote in 2024. But it doesn't, they'll be able to. And whenever they do polls at the high schools in Puerto Rico and the colleges, it's like 70, 80% support independence. It's amazing.

So who's really behind that? Who are the champions of it? Well, there's the Independence Party in Puerto Rico. And that party is historic. It was founded in the late 40s. And they were the second party in power before, like in the 50s. But from the 50s onward, there was a lot of repression. There was a gag law that repressed independence movement. Our flag was illegal.

You couldn't even say the War of Independence or you'd get arrested. If the government saw you with a flag, you'd get 10 years in prison. 10 years in prison for having the Puerto Rican flag in Puerto Rico. So imagine growing up in that era. Yeah, it was hard. It was really hard. So that political party just survived. They just battled, battled, and survived. They really couldn't grow because with all the repression going on. Now, fast forward.

to the late 90s, 2000s, and finally they start growing, slowly, slowly growing. In 2020, I believe there were 14%, and now in 2024 elections, the candidate for governor of the Independence Party did an alliance with other parties, and he got 30, I think I forgot, 32, 33%.

which came in second place, right on the heels of the pro-cijud lady who won, Jennifer Gonzalez. But that wasn't heard of. That's new. I mean, because usually in historical record, the independence candidate was always three, you know, the third, came in third place. Now he came in second place and with right on the heels of being elected. So that was a great deal. So there is change happening in Puerto Rico.

And there's some change that's happening that many powers that be in Puerto Rico do not want to happen. So there's even talk, I mean, sometimes on podcasts in Puerto Rico, some pro-state hooders are even talking about, I mean, and they talk about this as if it's nothing, as if it's like, you know, fooling around, that, oh, it may be time to bring back the persecution again.

Like they literally said that on the podcast. Like it could be time to bring back some, you know, assassinations here and there because, you know, to scare people to submission. They've said that and it's straight. And remember, those are the ones that are pro-USA, that they say that they're pro-USA. Interesting. Yep. So when will be the next big event that happens with the Seoul campaign, do you think?

Well, right now, there's a lot of education going on. The independence candidate, no, he didn't make it, but he's still going around and interviews and education and events. But there is, again, other groups like this other group that I'm a part of called Plan B Independencia. And we're backing this whole notion, this idea of having an executive order, having Trump sign an executive order to start this up.

I mean, he's already signed so many executive orders that are even more outlandish than this. Exactly. So if you just, hey, Trump, if you just sign this sign right here, we can... Save the... Whatever you change to go to Mexico or go from America, be Gulf of Puerto Rico. No, I don't...

But, yeah, I mean, look, right now the U.S. spends $40 billion on Puerto Rico to keep it as is, a poor dependent colony. $40 billion that could go to your state, your county, right? If Puerto Rico became a state, that would go up. The federal spending to Puerto Rico would be over $50 billion. Right?

Right. And a lot of that money would be to maintain, you know, food stamps, dependency, all that. Right. Keep Puerto Rico poor because that's how it works for them. Now, if the U.S. decided for independence, the U.S. in the long term would save. All right. Here this save over six hundred seventeen billion dollars.

Right? That's a lot of money. That's a lot of... So it's in the U.S. economic interest, not even morally. Forget... Even if you don't want to deal with morals. Politically and economically, it's in the U.S. interest to support independence, to move it forward. But working on that, we're trying to contact, you know, members of Congress, American politicians. And, I mean, we're trying. We're doing our part. Yeah. That's a very interesting story. I didn't realize almost any of this. Yeah. It's weird. Yeah.

And Rich, you're not alone. You're not alone. Most Americans, even highly educated Americans who have like two or three doctorates do not know this information. It's not talked about in American media. It doesn't, it's kind of like, you know, you don't talk about Bruno. You don't talk about Puerto Rico. It's not. Yeah. I remember even in high school when I, when I was in New Jersey and in high school, you know, in U.S. history class, when I brought up,

In a very respectful way, I wasn't being rude. In a very respectful way, you know, the Ponce Massacre in Puerto Rico in 1937, I got kicked out of the classroom because how dare I insinuate that the U.S. would do a massacre in Puerto Rico? Oh, sure. The teacher could believe it because he's never heard of that. And then I brought in a picture of the Ponce Massacre and he was like, oh, I did not know that happened. Yeah, that's normal. I see that all the time.

Crazy. Wow. So, I mean, what is the climate you think in Puerto Rico just slowly edging towards enough of a vote? What is it going to happen?

in the next five years? Or is it a long-term coming? Or are you trying to put your foot on the gas right now? Like, what's happening? I mean, if it happens now, it happens now. I'll be for it. You know, with this idea about the executive order, we've gotten a lot of pushback in Puerto Rico from the pro-statehood and pro-Commonwealth folks that are like, oh, that's not democratic. We have to have the democratic will of the Puerto Rican people to decide what happens. But my thing, my take is...

Did the U.S. ask us to invade us? Did they ask us, was there a vote? No. When they imposed all these laws for 125 years, was there a vote? No. No, no. They don't ask permission, right? But then when we want freedom, now we have to ask permission. So I'm all democracy. I'm all for democracy. But when it comes to decolonization,

I don't have to convince, especially after 125 years or 26 years of repression and not caring about our opinions, if I can convince the U.S. to let us go, great, we did it. You know, what are the arguments of the people against it? Besides we just like it how it is. I mean, what would be the downside? Is there an answer?

It's fear, fear. All they talk about when it comes to independence is not, they don't even want to debate what kind of government we would have or the economy. Basically for these people, it's independence equals death, equals poverty. Independence is bad. So imagine growing up thinking that independence is evil.

then what are you going to expect? Now, here's the irony. I grew up in the U.S. where independence is loved. Being independent, freedom, I grew up with that. All my American... Depends what you're independent from, yeah. Exactly. And then all my American neighbors, they're all pro-independence for the U.S. Republicans and Democrats are all pro-independence. No, I've never met an American that was pro having the U.S. become a colony again. That doesn't exist anymore, you know.

But imagine how you would react, Rich, if you had a loyalist, right? Come back from the past, an American loyalist that was pro-British and try to convince you that it's better to be under British rule. Like, there you laugh. It'd be believable. There are people that are doing that. Actually, it's called like the World Economic Forum or the W.A. But those are the globalists that want to enslave everybody. Yeah, there actually are. But yeah.

In Puerto Rico, we're still dealing with that. Like, we're still dealing with loyalists that believe that we can't be free because we're just, we're too dumb or we're too ethnic or whatever. They come up with crazy reasons. You know, first, we're too small, right? That was the big one back in the day. Well, we're too small to be free.

But then you have Singapore, Dubai, all these little, little countries that are super rich. So then they lost that. You know, they can't use that anymore, though. You're too small to be free. So now they came up with culture. Oh, the Puerto Rican people can't do. So you see, so they try to come up with different ways to justify our colonial rule, you know, our colonialism.

And I have to keep fighting against that. I keep saying like, we can be free. We can be a free people in the world. Just like, you know, the

some you know there's 193 countries in the world we can get one more or maybe two or three more because i do there's other countries i want to be free also but yeah i mean we're a nation we're a total nationality we're different people we have our own history literature our own the way we speak or the way we think we're a nation we just don't have political sovereignty over our own country yet and that's the that's what i'm we're trying to push we're trying to

make this happen. And I mean, and there are people doing a really good job of this in Puerto Rico now, but I see my role as help to convince Americans who many have never heard of these issues. Yet, if Puerto Rico becomes a state, it will be really bad. It's not going to be, oh, we have a little Latino state. No, this is going to be Quebec times 100.

All right. Because, you know, Quebec has its issues with Canada, the culture, the language. All right. We would come in right coming in hot with we're not speaking English. We will never assimilate. And we have a vibrant and powerful independence movement coming in like that. Is that a place you want to be part of state? No, of course not. I mean, that would not that doesn't seem like people that are well want to be American, you know.

So, and not because being American is bad. It's not. It's just, we're not American. I'm not French. I'm not German either. I'm not Italian. You know, I'm Puerto Rican. So it's, you know, we want our freedom so that we can finally have a great relationship with the U.S. One equal, equal, you know, like friend to friend cooperation, not one based off who rules who, you know, and that's.

Who was behind, I don't know if it's called Rule 60 or whatever, you know, huge tax breaks to Americans that form corporations there and all that. Like, do you think that does that go contra to the wishes of people that wish to separate? Does it kind of tie you together even more with the U.S.? The irony is that those laws were made to attract rich Americans to Puerto Rico, right?

It's like a re-colonization then, because if you get enough Americans to live in Puerto Rico, they're going to be like, oh, we like it here. We don't want it to be separate. That's the idea.

That's why it was done by a pro-statehood governor, Luis Faldunio, who kind of started that, bring Americans in. But what's happened is it hasn't been like a drove. It hasn't been like, oh, crap, now we have 50,000 Americans here. No, it's been just a few rich people with their families or something with other families.

But many of them have left because they realized, I mean, because they were sold, oh, this is the USA. It's a tropical version of the USA. That's what they sell you, right? When you live in Puerto Rico for real, you realize, whoa, I'm in Latin America here. This is, all is in Spanish and people don't see me as a Puerto Rican. So many have left, but you still have some people that are there

And I get it. Look, you investing, that's a whole different issue. But the way that they did it, the way that they just, you know, I mean, because these Americans are coming in getting tax breaks that Puerto Ricans can't get. See, that's what makes it unfair. If there were tax breaks that anyone can get. Great. OK, we can make that work because anyone. But but imagine it was like a tax break only for these people.

who you're bringing in to try to displace us demographically. I mean, what the hell is that? I mean, imagine if the U.S. was doing that or something like that, you know, like bringing on purpose all these people to demographically change and whatever, and you just have to sit back and let it happen. I mean, people get sick of it. Things are happening like that already. But yeah, so in Puerto Rico, you do have those situations. Now, I personally know some Americans in Puerto Rico

who are amazing people, who aren't some of these like act 60 people who are, many of them are disliked, not because really they're investors, it's because the way they act. Like they come to Puerto Rico and they don't learn the language. They treat Puerto Ricans like crap. You know, in our own country, these people come in and treat us like crap. So you have that, but you also have a lot of different Americans who are

amazing people, great. They're in the community. They actually contribute, respect our culture, respect our learning Spanish. So those Americans, awesome. We love you. You're great. You know, we just don't want the American center come in and start, you know, like treating us like, like literally treating us like immigrants in our own country. That's literally the only complaint I have is the Puerto Rican Spanish is so fast. It's hard to understand it. And they cut the word

That makes the Spanish easy. Yeah, see, that's the funny thing. We all have different Spanish and, yes, it is fast, and I recognize even when I speak Spanish, it's fast. But if you think ours is fast, Chilean Spanish is light speed. Some people can't even understand it. I love Chileans, but sometimes when I have my Chilean friends are talking, I'm like, why can you repeat that a little slower, man? Yeah, it's funny.

Very good. You made a great case for it. And I haven't heard any of this. This is a great interview. What's the best way for people to follow up with you from here? Yeah, the best way to reach me and I'm really on my socials. I'm on Facebook, but really that's more like, you know, friends and family type of stuff. But really on X on Twitter, you're now called X. It's at at Brexit book.com.

That's the best way to get me right there. If anyone's interested, you can get some of those links for the books. You're going to DM me something, a message or what do you think about this or how about that? Any questions, please. I love getting questions and I answer people back. I mean, I don't just like look at it and like ignore it. I literally answer people back. If you DM me like a good question or something like that, I will respond to you back.

Yeah. And like I said, I'm all about educating people. I want people to know about this. And this matters to the U.S. This can impact. If Puerto Rico becomes a state,

It's going to literally majorly impact the future of this country. It's not going to be like, oh, it's like a Miami. No, no. This is going to be Quebec times. It's going to be like a Caribbean Kosovo. Okay. It's going to be different. It's because we're not, we're not coming in, you know, holding American flags and I want to, I want apple pie. No, we're not. And that's why I want Americans to understand that. So thus the best way to deal, finish this situation is,

so that it's a win-win for both of us is independence. We get freedom. You let go of a colony, an expensive dependent colony that's costing you billions a year. You save money. We get our freedom. We could finally establish a great relationship together, one based off trust and cooperation and friendship, all that. I mean, because I would love if Puerto Rico became free. I would love for us to have great, amazing relationship with the U.S. trade, cultural, economic, all that.

I just don't want to be ruled. Right, right. Hey, goodbye, Andy. Are we being called the Andele Puez movement or something? Oh, my God. Yeah, that's like... Yeah, but thank you. Good question. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for coming out here. And like I said, you're doing a... Sounds like a very good thing. So thank you, and I appreciate you being here. Thank you very much. We appreciate it. If you like this podcast, please click the link in the description to subscribe and review us on iTunes.

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