Strategic Clarity: Hunter S. Gaylor On Creatively Solving Problems Across Industries
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Hello, this is Richard Jacobs with the Finding Genius podcast. My guest today is Hunter Gaylor. He's an executive partner and financial expert. Spencer Pruitt. He's the author of Planes, Plants, and Politics, a mental framework to help overcome challenges in any industry. So I love problem solvers and glad to speak to you, Hunter. Thanks for coming.

No, it's always a pleasure to talk and problem solving is what I do. So I look forward to our conversation. Well, tell me a bit about your background. You know, were you always a problem solver, you know, working in different industries and how did it lead to your current position and your authorship of the book? Well, you know, I guess I could give you the Reader's Digest version of my background. I went to a military high school,

when I, when I was in high school, I graduated and went to, um, Harvard and I, uh, studied government and international relations with a little bit of, uh, focus on, uh, kind of geopolitical economics and financial accounting and things like that. Um, ended up starting a tech company and I was in college. Um, it was in the advertising space and, uh,

by way of different experiences, which I won't bore the audience with and your listeners, made my way out to California where I worked for one of my investors. I had a company called Abjet. It was one of the largest private aviation companies and did a lot of special projects with him and really learned by observation on how people really kind of solved a lot of complex problems all around the world and how important it is to understand the qualities of aviation

how to solve problems because like those pillars, if you were will, and you know, after COVID and starting my company and authoring this book, and I've got a couple more in the works right now, it really, I started seeing some, uh, I think the best way to put it is some similarities and overlaps on, uh, you know, really any industry and any problem, uh, that would arise, whether it was an accounting or enterprise or governmental or policy or whatever it may be. Uh,

And I think that's kind of what I've been doing over and over and over again. I kept seeing no matter where I was, whether it's sitting down with investors or a policy meeting or any type of multi-sectors, the thing that derails more potential and wastes more time and what I would say quietly kills more strategies than anything else is the lack of clarity. And really, that's kind of what I've been doing.

where I'm at and how I ended up where I'm at is because of and continuing to grow is the fact that I really think clarity and being able to make your yeses yes and your noes no is so vitally important in in the industry and it's really kind of agnostic uh it's really kind of the art of communication if you will getting people to understand so that's kind of the little background on uh

on me and where I come from. And that can be elongated. And we'd be here for hours and hours and hours talking about all the different things that led me to where I'm at today. But life's a journey and you know, you have to be a lifelong learner. So I'm excited to talk a little bit about it. Well, I guess probably, you know, stupid question, but Barry, what do you mean by clarity? Cause I'm not clear. So I don't, I don't,

What I mean is I don't mean clarity as in some sort of polished speech or catchy slogan. I mean clarity in the real sense, the ability to articulate what you're doing, why you're doing it, and what happens next in the way that is concrete, coherent, and actionable. You see, most of the time, I think people don't realize how much confusion they're operating inside of. You know, there's a tendency to think that motion is...

We'll say equals momentum, that if people are busy, they must be aligned. But when you zoom out, what you actually see is misalignment hidden behind what I would argue is activity. And most of that comes down to the fact that no one was ever truly clear. And what I mean by clarity is clarity forces discipline.

Okay. It reveals whether your, your thinking holds together or where it's, or whether it's just noise. And sometimes it can be noise wrapped in energy. Oh yeah, let's do this. Let's do it. Let's do it. But do what? And I think it's what separates people who have a plan from people who are performing the idea of having a plan, right? We could, we could talk back and forth all of the time, but you know, if we're not clear on,

on what our mission is and you don't have a clear understanding of what the objective is, then you're really not going to get anything done. You're just going to be kind of like circling the wagon. Right. And, and really nothing's ever happening. You know, that's how they say it's like, you know, all talk and no show. That's kind of what it is. Right. So that's kind of what I mean by clarity. Right.

Not really a communication tactic. It's not a branding skill. It's really kind of what I would argue is the backbone of execution. It's the one thing that when missing derails everything. And I've seen a lot of smart people with good ideas and they go nowhere because their teams really didn't understand what the hell they were doing.

And that's because they weren't clear. And it's not because people were incompetent or it's not because the leadership, it's because the leadership could not explain what mattered in precise terms. So do you have a checklist that people run through as they're thinking through what they want to do? Or how can they ensure they check the boxes?

Well, I mean, I think it varies from case to case, right? It's not a matter of just checking boxes, right? I mean, you know, a very elementary example would be Legos, right? I know this sounds very elementary, but it's actually, you know, the simplest example I could give. I mean, Lego doesn't give you...

a picture on a box and a bunch of pieces in a bag without any instructions and say, Hey, try your best to build this. Here's all of the, there's clear instructions, right? This is step one. This is step two. This is step three. And it tells you what to do. You can't be any clearer. It shows the picture, it shows the piece, it shows where that piece needs to go. And at the end, by following those directions, right? Those clearly laid out directions, you end out with what the end result,

result is supposed to be. And that's the completed, you know, whether it's a car or a building or whatever it is that you're the Lego, you know, set is. And I think in business, that's what it is. It comes, if you're going to execute on something, did you communicate properly on what it is that you want to execute on? So it's not necessarily a checklist. I think it comes down to communication because every, every industry is different in the form of what they're trying to accomplish. It's the matter in which they articulate how they go about accomplishing that.

There's the age-old saying, there's a thousand ways to skin a cat. We could talk about every way, but which way are we all going to agree on that this is the way we want to go? No animals have been harmed in this example, but all joking aside, it's the truth. I can make pancakes one way, you can make pancakes the other way. A lot of the things that people are going to do are new to them.

and they don't know all the variables. So it sounds like to me, I mean, they need a structure in order to go forward. So they would need checklists and guides and something like that, you know, like a mental framework in your head. Yes, I can see you'll get there after you've done it dozens of times. But for the person that's new to it, and again, by definition, probably usually they're doing something new to them. So I would think they would definitely need a lot of structure in the beginning. Well,

Well, it depends on what they're trying to do. I mean, you know, if you're going to create structure, right, it's structure for what, right? And I think we have to first, I'll say this to anyone, if they come to, if people come to me all the time, they say, well, we want to do X, Y, and Z. Okay, well, the first question I ask is, well, why?

Right. What's the motivating factor on why you want to do something? I had a client come to me the other day saying, well, we want to buy this company. Well, why do you want to buy this company? Because I think I can do it better. OK, well, why do you think you can do it better? And by the time you drive down, you know, you know, the questions and really kind of get down to what's the motivating factor, you know, it varies between people. And then once you can get down and really answer the why question, then you have to answer the how question. Right. Right.

And how is going to be different for a lot of people. Right. You know, if you haven't done it before, then the how could be, you know, very scary. OK, but if you have certain skill sets, the how could be, you know, relatively simple, but maybe they just need some guidance. So, you know, yes, I believe in structure, but it's not if we're going to say like sandwiches is a perfect example. Right. Taco Bell came out and said, think outside the bun.

Right. Is that because someone, you know, woke up one day and said, hey, you know, I'm tired of seeing a bunch of hamburgers. We should do something else. Right. And so, you know, yes, we want to do tacos, but they have to go through some sort of, you know, experimental phase. Right. I mean, that's really kind of what the scientific method is. Right. I mean, we start with the hypothesis, but then we have to go trial by error, you know, especially if you're going to do something new because you're doing something new that by definition means people have not tried it before.

Or if they have, they failed and you have to ask yourself why have they failed? - Well, it might be new to you,

but it might not be new to them. I mean, you know, you obviously want to seek when you can expertise in a given industry. Like, let's say I want to do a corporate restructuring. I have no idea how to do it. It's new to me, but there's other people that have done it a thousand times, you know, but I guess it sounds like I should at least come to them with a very clear idea of what I want so they can help me. Right. But I think that starts with the, why do you want to do a corporate restructure? Right. I mean, if someone said to me, well, I want to corporately restructure my company. Okay. Well, why are you

Are your revenues down or do you have employee? I mean, there's a thousand variables. So you can't just so that's that's why it's a difficult question to have. And until you can, going back to clarity, clearly identify what it is that you want to do and why. Right. Then it makes it easier to now have a discussion to be able to set the framework and then write out the instructions for someone to be able to accomplish what it is that they want to accomplish. Right.

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The book teaches you to develop your own mental framework so that you can, you can at least, I don't know, establish your problem clearly to yourself and then have a better, like

likelihood to solve it? Or what is the main thrust of the book? I mean, the main thrust of the book is, is, you know, a lot of people want to do something, right? But let's say you're starting from square one, right? It's very simple. It's written to basically say, look, as someone like myself at my age that has worked across multiple industries, across multiple geographical regions, right? What have I seen a lot of?

Right. And it's like, OK, sometimes people just have no idea where to start. They think they know where to start. They don't know where to start. So at least here's somewhat of a guidebook to think, you know, you're not going to take everything I say as gold. Right. But maybe one or two things could, you know,

could help. So really, the framework is just to overcome your mental challenges. For example, people always want to do something, right? If they say, listen, I really want to start a company. Okay, well, what company? I don't know. I really want to start a company. And then you end up finding out you've been talking five years about wanting to start a company, never started a company. Okay. And it could be as simple as a person like, hey, look, I want to start a bakery. I want to start a bakery.

Okay. Well, you've been talking about starting a bakery. Why don't you just go ahead and start a bakery? Right. You know, well, okay. Just launch. That's why the first chapter is be in the pilot seat and just launch, right? Just go. It's going to be okay. You're going to make mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes, but just go. You know, it's, it's, it's some point when you're on the starting line, I want to run the race, but when the shotgun goes off and people start running and you're still at the line saying, well, I want to run the race and the shotgun went off, but what do I do? Well,

Well, I don't know how to. Okay, well, just put one foot in front of the other, right? Let's just start. Let's start by putting your right leg up.

And then your left leg up and then your right leg up. Just start. Go through. Just start. Right. Just start. And then as you come up to challenges, you can seek advice. You could do all sorts of stuff. And that's why really the whole thing is it's a framework. Right. And when I broke it down, I broke it into three sections. Right. So the idea of planes is kind of to break down simple analogies. You have to launch. Then what do you do? You have to manage your turbulence. Things are going to go wrong.

But that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing. It could be a learning opportunity for you, assuming you've never done it before. And then it's know your runway. What are your limitations? Maybe you're not good at accounting, so you need to get a CPA firm. Maybe you're not good at, you like the idea of owning a bakery, but maybe you don't know how to bake, so you got to hire a baker. I mean, very simple elementary examples, but-

And then always try to fly higher, meaning always try to better yourself, right? And always try to do better in your company. It sounds elementary, but it's so simple because so many times people are guided by fear and they never do anything because they're scared of the results, right? Oh, I may fail. I may fail. I mean, everybody fails. I fail, right? But you got to-

My gut just tells me people put numbers on paper and they have financial scenarios, but they don't mention the things you're saying. Uh-oh, I don't know how to bake. I got to get a baker. How much are they going to cost? Uh-oh, I don't know this. Again, they seem to do numbers and number projections, but what areas of a plan are they most weak in that you've seen? Well,

Well, I'll pull it into what I deal with in capital markets and kind of in like an international perspective. I think sometimes people, what I see the most is, is they'll start. The ones that do start, that start and have some level of success, they get ahead of their skis.

and they've grown or they're growing or starting to grow or they're making some critical mistakes and they're not correcting quick enough. They're not seeking necessarily the proper advice that they should be seeking, so they continue to make mistakes. And so that's why we end up seeing a lot of people in distress situations because it's like, oh, well, I should have done this or I should have done that. Well, you know, hindsight's 20/20. It's always easy to do Monday morning quarterback. But for the person that's in the driver's seat, right, that's trying to pilot their aircraft,

Right. What I find out most of the time is nearly every misstep or something that escalated into something worse wasn't caused by an ideological one. Like, well, I thought we should have done this. Right. It's did they properly communicate what the real problem is? Right. So when I gave the example of, you know, a guy.

Came in my office. I want to buy this company. One of the things I said that happens to be a publicly traded company for the sake of conversation, I won't say the name, but I said, okay, well, in order to do that, you know, you have to get board approval and there's all these very complex things you have to do if you're going to take over a public company is I asked, I said, is there a hostile board?

Right. Would we have to deal with a hostile board? He says, well, only a couple of people, I think two would be hostile. And then I asked a very specific question. I said, would they be hostile to the idea or are they hostile to you, the individual? And that person kind of stepped back thinking, well, oh, no.

oh, no, they're actually hostile towards me, right? Not towards the idea of an acquisition. So there's a lot of human interaction that goes into these things because at the end of the day, we're not dealing with robots, right? We're dealing with human beings, right? To put on their pants the same way we do, one leg at a time. And so I think a lot of things that I see