286. Optimising Hormones & Health For Men with Simmo
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The information provided in this podcast episode is for entertainment purposes and is not medical advice. If you have any questions about your health, contact a medical professional. This content is strictly the opinions of Lucas Owen and is for informational and entertainment purposes only.

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Thank you for listening to the Boost Your Biology podcast. My name is Lucas Owen. I uncover the most cutting edge health information on the planet, ranging from hormones, nutrition, supplementation, fat loss, biohacking, longevity, wellness, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the Boost Your Biology podcast.

What is up ladies and gentlemen and welcome back to the boost your biology podcast. Today I'm super excited because we also have a fellow men's health coach. We have Simo. Simo, welcome to the podcast, man.

Great to be on. Thanks, Lucas. Awesome. So Simo, I mean, we've, uh, we've only recently connected in the past, uh, past few weeks, but, um, for my audience that want to understand a little bit about yourself, your journey, um, do you want to share a little bit about how you got into, yeah, I guess health optimization? Yeah, for sure. Um, so, uh, 10 years ago, I, I got cancer, uh, that kind of awful C word that we all desperately want to avoid. And, uh,

Yeah, that was my harsh reality that hit me as a young man at 20 and was a difficult situation to comprehend, really difficult. And so after overcoming that, I then actually got a series of other health issues after that, consequently, which just sent me down a really negative spiral.

where I kept confiding in doctors and specialists and spending thousands of dollars and just not getting better. And I kind of thought something's not quite right here. Something's like I'm doing everything by the book and I'm, you know, confiding in the system and what's meant to help me. And I keep getting the same answers and I keep getting worse, if anything. So I took it upon myself to try and figure it out myself. So I

I spent a lot of time

researching and going down different rabbit holes and trying different diets and supplements and all the rest of it. And in that journey, I then established a system which I now help coach guys on that helped restore myself to get me out of all the different issues that I had. But now I'm using it to equip guys with a system that they need to help get them out of their own kind of proverbial holes, if you want to put it like that. So it's basically through coaching

hundreds if not thousands of mistakes and trials and countless trial and error through various different modalities it's kind of i've got to this point now and finally because it was uh it was hell for a long time man it's a it's a really really powerful i guess mission that you're on and i really respect a lot of what you're doing today with your content on on x and you know the the stance that you take on men's health i really applaud you for the for the impact that you're making and

So did you want to sort of run us through I mean,

dealing with cancer at that age man like that is heavy heavy stuff I'm laughing but I try and I try and make light of it now I mean I I um at the time it was yeah it was soul destroying you know you you as a young man who thinks he's invincible you know I don't know you know you were 20 you probably had that feeling as well like nothing can stop you like I'm gonna drink as much as I want I'm gonna party as much as I want and I'm gonna be fine and um you just you I lulled myself

into this false sense of security that it would never happen to me i wouldn't be the unlucky one it was always going to be someone else you know and i genuinely believed that and um i was just i was i was using that as a way of being in denial of this toxic lifestyle i was living uh you know i was i was engaging in all sorts of kind of hedonistic behavior which um which i was

It was kind of an excess lifestyle that caused that I believe now that caused a lot of the issues and the cancer I see as a byproduct of that. And I actually had other health issues that were that were that were very debilitating. But yeah, the cancer, the cancer is obviously the one that has the kind of heavy connotations. And yeah, for sure, that affected my life.

my mental health, my family in terms of how they took it and it transcended my social setting. It really reverberated in so many different domains. I think that was the big thing was the impact it has not just on yourself but other people around you as well. You made mention of, I guess, a really critical element there around the toxic

like what you would call is like a toxic lifestyle i mean we can both you and i see a number of men today living that very that very same lifestyle but they're carrying it all the way through to their late 30s into their 40s so did you want to sort of like shed light onto that i guess that topic there like what are men doing today that's like terribly destroying their health

Yeah, I think a lot of it stems down to if I think back to my former self, like I was just living a very unintentional life. And what I mean by that is I just wasn't questioning what I was doing and why I was doing it. I just felt like I was just following the path of everyone else and what was kind of deemed cool or what was kind of normal. You know, and I think if you think about it, like using society as a barometer of success is just dreadful because obviously most of society are

you know, unwell, fat, you know, just don't have characteristics that you would associate with being aspirational or healthy or all the rest of it. So I think with men specifically, what I, how I see it is a

I guess lifestyles now and society has become so toxic in the sense of, you know, whether it's food or whether it's the political domain, I think there's like a big anti-masculinity rhetoric right now, particularly in the West. And I think with all the chemicals in the food, which you know very well, the chemicals in the food that are feminizing men, I think that we've also got

a lot of the kind of woke ideology as well, that's being pushed into schools and educations as well, like telling men not to be men. And, and, and I think if you take all of these different elements across all these different domains, I think it just means that, you know, men are, are, it's tough. It's really tough, but it's the same for women. I'm not, I'm not trying to say it's exclusive for women. A lot of this stuff also applies for women, but I think men right now, there is a,

It's difficult to be a man in the way that traditionally men were because that's kind of deemed toxic and not healthy. So I think that, yeah, it's multifaceted is what I'm trying to get at. Yeah, no, definitely. I think there's also...

that like there's a definite shift that's been happening I'd say in the last like yeah, five to 10 years where like we're actually finally starting to see the consequences of these toxins in our environment, the chemicals and men becoming more estrogenic. Like they're just you can see it around us like they're just not as resilient. They come home from work and they're just completely exhausted.

Maybe they just don't feel like they've got as much confidence even the younger guys like in their early 20s. Like they're just, they're suffering a lot man. So like, how do you try and communicate to those individuals? Like what's your, how do you try and like make an impact on those demographic?

Yeah, I, in terms of communicating to as many men as I can in that way, I think it just comes from a place of experience with, you know, I think a lot of people are frustrated with experts, telling them what to do from a place of theory. And I'm not not to say that there is, there's good, credible theories out there. But I think increasingly, people like listening to

men and women who have been in the trenches with the issues that they're advocating. You know, I've had cancer and I had low testosterone and I had all the symptoms associated with that. And so I know how it feels to be a low testosterone man, like low confidence, insecure, dealing with overwhelm, anxiety, mental health issues, like lack of muscle, like all of these things that as men, you know, really get in the way of

feeling our best and wanting to assert ourselves in the way that we want, you know? So I try and position myself in a bit more of a

of like uh from an experiential way with like well i've been there and and and um don't make the same mistakes that i've made because if if you follow that path and and you engage in certain toxic habits and uh you know all the things that you i'm sure a lot of your listeners hear a lot on your podcast for other people like

if you engage in those consistently, like it will compound and create issues. And, you know, that's why men are overweight. That's why, like you said, low energy, brain fog, lack of muscle, like all of these key things men are struggling with because of the lifestyle and the habits that they're engaging in. You made a really an important point there around like,

men today suffering from let's say let's focus on the topic of like fat loss and weight loss because i'd imagine you get a number of clients as well who want to drop body fat um and i know that you've also at least hung around the the ray pete dr ray pete community and you've looked at the the you know energetic balance metabolic theory there what what do you do now when it comes to like supporting people when it comes to weight loss like what is your

How do you approach that? Yeah, I think from a weight loss standpoint, I help guys understand fundamentally, I think the common one is helping them understand it's about nutrition as opposed to fitness. Because I think a lot of people, a lot of men I deal with make the mistake of thinking they can outrun their weight on a treadmill and it doesn't work. That does not work. It's highly, highly inefficient. So I help men understand

understand that 90% of the things that you and I deal with or we're familiar with really stem from good nutrition. And so if you sort out your nutrition, you're going to get most of the way there. I do...

part of my system, what I advocate orientates a more holistic approach. And yeah, Ray, Ray P, and you know, I know you're, you're well, more well-versed in this than I am, but, um, you know, Ray Pete's ideologies and philosophies were instrumental just in opening my eyes to, you know, carbs are demonized in a lot of the rhetoric, but actually, you know, carbs can be therapeutic in some contexts. Um, and I think the power of nutrient dense foods, you know, I, I'm a big, I'm a big, and

anti-guy of calorie counting. I just think calories aren't... I don't think they're real, for one. I don't think it's actually like a

it's not a biologically recognized proxy. It's a corporatized proxy that was designed to ensure that big conglomerates could sell unhealthy foods under the fake guise of healthy because they're low calorie, right? So I really just help guys understand, look, it's actually really simple. You just have to eat the right foods and I give them the parameters of those foods and they eat as much as they want of those foods. And it's

and there's not many restrictions which a lot of guys are quite taken back by because as you will know and i'm sure you get guys on like a lot of the health space tends to over complicate things and make things very uh difficult to really understand what to do and i think that can that can generate more neurosis and and you become more neurotic as opposed to being health you know health should enhance your life not consume it right and i think that's what i try and help guys understand like simplicity is key

Yeah, I really respect that. And I find, I mean, I studied naturopathy, right? And so when I went to university, like everyone was so fixated on health, but it became like orthorexic. They're just hyper paranoid about the tiniest bit of gluten, you know, things like that. But what I'm keen to hear though, like when it comes to nutrition, you mentioned you encourage guys to consume, you know,

these certain foods and you can pretty much eat as much as you want basically but talk us through like your approach to nutrition is it more so like there are select foods that you're happy for most guys to consume like what does that what does that look like

Yeah, I call it like, I mean, Paul Saladino seems to pioneer the term, but like animal based. I call it like animal dense, but it's the same thing. It's an animal based template, although I'm different to Paul in the sense that he's still, he loves fruit, but he's still quite anti-vegetables, whereas I'm more pro-vegetables. Yeah.

depending on how they're prepared. I definitely think there's a difference between below the ground and above the ground vegetables, which you'll know. And I think there's a difference between if they're raw and cooked in terms of how the body can utilize and assimilate.

the vegetables, but yeah, it's, it's predominantly meat, seafood, eggs, vegetables, and fruits. And that's basically like the, that's basically the main, the main foundations of the template. And they, what I get them to do is they have a big breakfast. So I know like in some of the health rhetoric, it's like, you know, breakfast is a scam. And I used to, I used to think that, and I know in the intermittent fasting world, which I used to be a part of,

I used to skip breakfast all the time. And, you know, they're all kind of, you know, breakfast is a scam. You don't need it, blah, blah, blah. It was invented by Kellogg's to sell you bran, all the rest of it. And I used to believe that. I thought that.

And I did intermittent fasting for a while and I saw some digestive benefits, but then my energy side of the tank, my libido side of the tank, and I was like, hmm, this isn't kind of the panacea that I thought it was. So I then discovered Jack Cruz and kind of circadian health and like leptin and leptin resistance and leptin sensitivity and how that feeds into having a meal early in the morning. So I get my guys to have a big meal.

breakfast with like four to six eggs with some fruit within 60 minutes of waking and then they have a big lunch and then i try we try to minimize dinner so i tell them like eat like a king for breakfast a queen for lunch and a pauper for dinner um which which i know kind of is a reverse of it's kind of reverse fasting in the sense of if you think about most people associate fasting with like intermittent fasting at having lunch that i i kind of advocate the reverse and funnily enough

it kind of surprised me as well because like i i i used to be very dogmatic and tied to intermittent fasting and uh anecdotally i haven't seen science but anecdotally anyway every guy that comes to me from an intermediate fasting background when they introduce a big breakfast and a big lunch they they see their symptoms pretty much resolved just with that change alone in a in a large way which which is actually shocked me because i didn't

I thought it wouldn't be as potent as that, but as time's gone on and I've had more guys come to me, it keeps proving otherwise. So that's been a huge component. And what do you think is the initial reason why most guys even start on the intermittent fasting bandwagon? What do you think is the main reason?

Yeah, I think because I think Huberman, people like Huberman and the book, Sachin Panda's book, what's it called? Circadian Code, which is phenomenal. And I think a lot of the, Ron DePatrick, there's some key figures in that layer of the health space that I think are very pro-intimidated fasting. And I think...

I think it's articulated to some people as like, well, you can kind of eat what you want as long as it's within a certain window. And obviously that's quite appealing. It's like, oh, you get all these benefits. You don't have to change what you eat. You just have to eat it within this window. And that's where I think the issue comes is like people then...

They eat what they want in that window. And I think you still need nutrient density. And I do know guys and girls that thrive on doing it. And I know I have a friend that does one meal a day and he seems to claim he's in good state. But I do, I would question people's own intuition with regards to what I mean by this is like when I did carnivore and intermittent fasting,

I did convince myself that I was doing the right thing despite my intuition telling me otherwise. And what I mean by that is like when I did carnivore, I lost a lot of weight. Like I, I've got hyperthyroid. I lost,

way too much weight. I went gaunt, I went cold, you know, it was ugly. And, but I was in denial of it. And I kept telling myself, Oh, it's the best thing. It's the greatest thing ever. I was in all the forum groups, and I felt like a part of the community as I Oh, these guys are all great. And, and I remember joining Dave Feldman's Facebook group about lean mass hyper responders. And my cholesterol was actually like four times what it should be. And he was kind of it's kind of been glorified as Oh, no, you're one of the lucky few, you've got really high cholesterol. I'm thinking,

Hang on, really? I'm not sure about this. And anyway, it turns out, I then learned that very high cholesterol is your thyroid telling you, look, we need help. And so I do think dogma plagues a lot of the health space. And I think a lot of people get into these spaces and then the intermittent fasting or the

or their diet becomes their identity and then they forget their intuition. And I think that's a really dangerous place to be in. Yeah, you mentioned, I guess like the, it's funny you mentioned the hypothyroid on strict carnivore, man, that's like a,

Like we need to also like for any guy listening to this, they need to realize that you actually need carbs to be super optimal. And you can also explain that to them. Like the carbohydrates literally fuel the conversion of T4 into T3. So if you don't have enough carbs,

T3, like guys focus on testosterone, I feel like most guys should actually focus on T3 and getting that into the cell. So do you want to sort of expand upon that sort of thyroid integration?

Yeah, I, so just based on my experience with that, like I, so I think the carnivore, I learned about the hyperthyroid component of carnivore when I'm Danny Roddy, you know, I know you know very well, where I saw a Danny Roddy anecdote being like, I did carnivore and then I, my world turned into a mess. And I remember reading that thinking, oh, wow, like I'm doing carnivore and I could see some of the symptoms that he said he had. And I was like, that's me. And that's when it hit me. I was like, ah, maybe I'm doing something that's not

serving me. So I got my thyroid checked, I had a load of markers checked. And yeah, I came back, my TSH was like five or six, my T3 and T4 were

T3 was particularly high, T4 was not good. But my secondary markers were my cholesterol was like three or four times what it should be. And my prolactin was about two or three times what it should be, which I know are kind of indirect markers of a dysfunctional thyroid. We need to just spell that out for guys listening that T3, let's say the trio, T3, cholesterol, prolactin,

If T3 is not high enough or thyroid is not high enough, that's when you see elevations in cholesterol and elevations in prolactin. I've seen it that many times.

Yeah. Yeah. I think we, yeah, that's such a, that's a critical point in terms of, I think if I could distill all of my lessons and learnings from that experience into one, like understanding the power of T3 would, it will be instrumental for a lot of people. I know Danny on his Twitter posts a lot of content around when you suck them in a little bit of T3, it balances cholesterol and prolactin. And it does seem to be this instrumental component to the whole process.

endocrine apparatus that I think more men need to recognize. I think more like TR, thyroid should be where TRT is. And what I mean by that is I think TRT is kind of where most men look to as this panacea to get them out of the mess. Whereas actually I think more of those men would get a lot more benefit if they saw the testosterone, the low testosterone symptoms as a dysfunction of probably thyroid dysfunction or maybe liver dysfunction, one of the two.

What do you recommend for guys? I mean, I've got my own protocols to maximize free T3. It might include optimizing the liver, so turkic, taurine, increasing carbohydrate intake, increasing selenium, iodine, tyrosine, and then also stacking on top like herbs that accelerate thyroid output like coleus for scolin, cordyceps, things like that. But yeah, what's your approach there to-

to increase T3. Yeah. I, my, my approach there is we tend to focus on the nutrition first to monitor that. And then I have a, in terms of like supplements, like I found good benefit with like topical magnesium chloride and thiamine. Thiamine I find most guys respond really well to thiamine. Um, those two, in terms of like,

tangible subjective effects that are synonymous with like proving that your metabolism is upregulating like the magnesium and the thiamine seem to be incredibly powerful. I do some guys have done well on desiccated thyroid itself but what I found interestingly Lucas was like

The bovine thyroids tend to react very differently to porcine thyroids in terms of the ratios of T3 to T4. And I had a personal experience with that where I reacted really badly to bovine thyroids because the ratio, my understanding is it's sometimes the ratio can be kind of one to four, one to five, one to six, can get quite high, whereas porcine tends to be more one to one, one to two.

Um, and so if you have too much T4 and that, and that, that can then convert, you then can end up converting too much of the T4. Um, and then that can create downstream consequences and get really ugly with, with the ratios being in balance. So I, I, I ended up having like, I think cortisol tends to be forgotten in, in, in the whole thyroid picture. Um,

where I definitely had some, when I, when I made that mistake with the bovine desiccated thyroid, and then I realized I'd stressed the adrenals, my cortisol, my cortisol then tanked. And then I realized, wow, okay, like what happened there? And then I, then I learned about the ratios issues and being careful with that. So I do think from my experience, it tends to be the pausing derived, but also, um, hey, do to, um,

Georgie yeah, has his I think it's Tyra mix, which are the synthetic T324, which I think is one to two, maybe I think the ratio maybe one to three. And I think people's people from anecdotally, anyway, people tell me that that tends to work better than than the desiccated in some cases. So the point here is, the point here is, I think it's nuanced. And I think

there's kind of layers to this that can get quite complex. And I only learned this through actually trial and error myself. So yeah, it's a fascinating rabbit hole for sure. The other trio is like thyroid cortisol, like thyroid cortisol interplay and then hormone. So it's like sex hormones. So it's like thyroid cortisol testosterone. You mentioned the cortisol when you tanked your cortisol. It's funny because we both have experienced that before and I

uh i did it intentionally like because i wanted to see what happens how do i feel with really low cortisol and man oh man it doesn't feel good at all it's bad isn't it how did you get yourself out of that um so well i definitely start i had to remove and eliminate the things that were squashing cortisol so i was back then i was taking high doses of magnesium high doses of zinc i was taking

certain herbs that can inhibit the conversion of cortisone into cortisol it's not and i was deliberately taking like things like um emodin tonka dali like things like that um and man i was like i'd wake up in the morning and i felt like a bus had hit me like like just fatigued so tired and like i don't drink coffee at all now i'm not against coffee i just don't personally drink it

But I felt like I went through a stage was like, I freaking need coffee to get going. And I'm like, that's not a good sign. Like if I'm already like dependent upon something like that. So yeah, I pretty much integrated like cordyceps, thorn, adrenal cortex, and a few other herbs. And I actually did a little bit of licorice, even though I know licorice can lower testosterone. I actually integrated that and I felt a lot better after all that.

Yeah, because that's quite delicate as well. Because I've heard of the adrenal cortex. That can be interesting because there's a difference between taking it. It's like hydrocortisone. That's the pharmaceutical one. Yeah, I'm

from what I read, it seemed to be that was favorable overtaking the cortex itself, because then you've got the adrenal gland and you've got adrenaline as well as the cortisol. So that seems to be, uh, I was a bit like, Oh, wow. Okay. Um, because when I, yeah, when I, when I had local, I had low cortisol and it just, I got hypotension where I just, I could feel my heart like

beat really hard. And that was like, wow, this is this is quite concerning. You know, and so you get the like the dizziness and the weakness and the fatigue, the muscle. Yeah, when I stand up, I get almost like faint. Yeah. I had anxiety like this. I felt my resilience to stress.

was really bad like i felt like anything would tip me over the edge yep 100 and also the um the strength in the gym goes down massively man like massively libido strength in the gym your motivation like just your zest for life like you're kind of like you just become a bit apathetic i was apathetic i was like i just kind of want to lie in bed you know it was bad it was bad um so but yeah um

the top fun enough like topical magnesium chloride which is not I'm not going to claim I'm not going to claim that there's a guy on Twitter called Grimhood which I know sounds bizarre but he pioneered topical magnesium chloride so he deserves all the credit but where is where topical in a certain way I get so I buy magnesium chloride flakes I put it in distilled pure water I put about at a one to two ratio and

and I put it in my own glass spray bottle and I literally douse myself all over and I do it in the morning before bed. And before bed, the one supplement I recommend, well, I'm not medical, I'm not medical, so this is what I do for myself. But the supplement I recommend for myself that's had the biggest tangible impact on my sleep quality is by far topical magnesium chloride, nothing's come close.

And that's all grim. That's not my credit. That's grim. Magnesium is like, I mean, like in terms of mechanisms, it's obviously shutting off the glutamate. It's reducing cortisol. It's probably like, yeah, GABA activator, like adrenaline lowering, blood pressure lowering. Like it just shuts off the entire biology.

It's huge. It does, doesn't it? It shocked me. It's absolutely seismic with how subjectively it kind of takes you from one state and you're like, my entire state just...

just calms and relaxes. It's amazing. But topically, when I do it orally, like with oral forms of magnesium, like I know glycinate people do well with some in the evening, but some people that can be stimulating. 3 and 8, I know Huberman

you know, loves that. But every guy that comes to me and they talk about three and eight, they're like, dude, actually, if anything made my sleep worse. And then you've got like citrate can obviously help with a digestive upset. And then I find malate actually good during the day. I find that good during the day, but yeah, malate during the day and I'll have the topical magnesium for it in the evening. But yeah, magnesium seems to be like a fundamental, like in my top three, I put that would easily be my top three for sure.

What about, I mean, I'm curious to know, like if you've had periods of your life where you've like eliminated caffeine or coffee or you, yeah, what's your stance on coffee? Yeah, well...

I love it. I love it. And I think like, maybe like you in terms of being in the repeat community, like I think that it clearly has therapeutic value for sure. And that's, that's clearly evident. I don't think that's, you know, that's undeniable. But I do think there's context or there's nuance in terms of, but for me, if I eat it away from food, it makes me very jittery and anxious.

And I don't feel like I metabolize it very well. And therefore, if I do drink it, I'll have one with food and that will be me for the day. If I have two or three, then I'm my sleep screwed.

Whereas I know, I know people that will drink an espresso before they go to bed quite literally. And so I do think there's clearly like a genetic or phenotype element to this where, you know, people are clearly, they can metabolize caffeine better than others. And, you know, you probably know more on that than me. But yeah, anecdotally, it just seems to be a mix of, it seems to be a difference between if you take it, if you take it,

By itself that affects you very differently to when you have it with food and then you've got depending on individual, you can clearly tolerate at different levels, but I, you know, like nicotine or most kind of drugs per se. I do think there is. I do think they all have a degree of therapeutic ability. I think.

Obviously, the law of diminishing rate of returns kicks in for different people with regards to what level that you can take before it becomes toxic. And obviously, that level is different for different people. But, you know, it's the same with nicotine. I think, you know, I know nicotine can be used intentionally and well, but like, you know, it also has detrimental effects. But, you know, it depends on the person. I personally believe anyway. Yeah.

Yeah, I find with like coffee, if we look at the potential health benefits, I mean, I would say overall, they do seem to outweigh a lot of the negatives if you integrate them, if you integrate it properly, and you know what you're doing. And you're also not like lazy when it comes to nutrition as well. And you're not using coffee as like a makeup for your deficits in so many other areas.

I think like pre-workout and like before any sort of exercise makes so much sense, given that it's going to delay fatigue, you know, increase dopamine, help with that sort of pathway. And then also there is some research where they looked at caffeine intake before a workout and then looked at the impact on post-workout testosterone secretion. And it did actually increase testosterone. Yeah, post-workout.

which is pretty, pretty cool. But I think you're right. I mean,

The integration there needs to be carefully considered, depends on the individual, depends on their thyroid, depends on their cortisol, depends on like, it's not a straightforward answer. For sure. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Like, I think, I think it's wise to, you know, experiment with these things, not, not take everything at kind of face value and just be like, cool, I'm going to experiment with it and just see how I respond and then use that as your kind of data point, as opposed to,

buying something or doing something being like well that's going to be an objective truth for me it's like well it might not be and that's okay you know we're all a bit different um so yeah i um

I think dark chocolate can be used as an interesting alternative if you want the dopamine benefits without it being as stimulating. I actually still find dark chocolate a little bit stimulating, but I know for some people, it can be mood boosting and uplifting in some ways without having the kind of jittery, the jitteriness that you get with the caffeine in the coffee. So, but then with dark chocolate, you've got

depending depending on where it's from it can be loaded with heavy metals you know there's cambium issues or arsenic problems so you know you'd be really careful with where you get it from which is you know a rabbit hole in itself but i do know i i do know it works for some yeah i mean these last um it's funny you mentioned that because these last few days um of like

had an affinity towards like i open up the pantry and i'm like i actually feel like the dark chocolate in my pantry and i'm like i keep on like when i have it i'm like geez three four hours later like i'm actually in a better mood it's hard to define mood because even when i talk about like how do you even define what is a good mood it's like for me it's like a good mood is the absence of negative thinking right like is the absence of negativity is the absence of like

bitching and whining like um it's it's for me it's like feeling like i can achieve a lot feeling motivated driven like pro-social and dark chocolate like it it does have that effect particularly on me yeah yeah yeah no it's um i think it's underrated i do think it's underrated sure i think creatine creatine to some extent can do that which i know i know it gets uh

I know it tends to be associated with bodybuilders and gym, but I do think creatine is incredibly underrated for cognitive benefits. And I think it has an incredible safety profile as well. I can relate to those aspirational feelings that you get with dark chocolate. I think creatine, I sometimes get that with creatine. But I do find with creatine, it can be somewhat digestive-wise. It can...

it can impact things digestion wise but I think moods it has a compelling case for sure what about your thoughts on because I imagine you get asked this as well quite a lot about the DHT to estrogen sort of balance there like I mean you've also probably read up about the benefits of DHT as well like how that's actually a beneficial hormone yeah what are your thoughts there

Yeah, I mean, DHT is an interesting one just because it's downstream of testosterone in terms of like, so if you want to optimize DHT, it's like, well, you know, you need to optimize testosterone as well. The kind of two are, you know, closely linked, very closely linked. So I think it's funny, like I think DHT...

it clearly it's clearly incredibly potent um and i think it's definitely synonymous with a lot of pro like masculine traits around like being disciplined being consistent doing doing good things um being proactive all of those like all of those healthy aspirational traits um and it's funny i was listening to something earlier where um you know i think it tends to get

confused in the, I know Danny Roddy talks a lot about it with regards to being confused as to, you know, people think DHT and hair loss and actually it's probably not, we probably, it's probably not contributing in the way that we thought it was. And I listened to a podcast earlier with Peter Atir and

Derek from More Plates More Dates and he's on a drug right now that's for his hair, I can't remember the name, Dutasteride I think is what it is on and it tanks your DHT and he says it has no impact on his ability to gain muscle which I thought was quite interesting because I thought DHT was pretty important in terms of muscle gain but he says it doesn't impact his ability to gain muscle at all.

So yeah, I think it's, I definitely think it's underrated. You know, I think testosterone is kind of the buzzword and the one that tends to get thrown about when we're talking about masculinity. But I think DHT, I think it's growing in popularity, but I think it's not as well studied as testosterone. So I still think there's a lot more that needs to be done there. So yeah, it's definitely interesting.

And what about, I guess, another pathway, another hormone that, again, you would see a number of guys, high blood work of prolactin. Yeah, what's your take there? Is there a particular...

hierarchy that you'll tackle to address the prolactin? Like you'd be like, we got to focus on thyroid first. We got to focus on nutrition. Like, yeah. What's your stance there? For sure thyroid. Like for sure. Like I'm the same as you. Like I think prolactin is a biomarker of a compromised dysfunctional thyroid for sure. So I think one has to

have the proper labs to go into more depth as to understanding what's going on with your thyroid then and I think in the same vein like if it's thyroid you know as you know like most most uh thyroid is conversed in the liver so it's like well let's check you know to make sure your liver markers are good as well and gut you know like you'll know that as well I think gut liver and thyroid are kind of the mighty triad you know so I think if prolactin's high in my experience when I've had hyperlactin I've

I've generally been very overwhelmed and stressed. And I think I do think I do think finding ways to decompress and

be more intentional with how you're using your time and you know i think we live in a world where a lot of people in the health world they'll do crossfit and they'll pound themselves in the gym then they'll go and they'll have very kind of type a jobs where they're you know throwing themselves in their jobs and it's it's very um i think that that you're exerting yourself a lot mentally and physically and i think um i do think that there's a case to be made for just like

relaxing, chilling out a bit, you know, and I think just finding ways that you can kind of mix that intensity with, with like hard, hard chilling or like intense relaxing, just so you've got that counterbalance. Because I think we all start to drift towards more like, you know, do do do do do do do. And I think that's great. And it's good. But it needs to be balanced. You know, I think prolactin can, in my experience, it tends to be orientated around guys that just don't have that balance.

Yeah, interesting. It's like you've heard the saying like DHT maxing. It's like relax maxing. Relax maxing, yeah. I think there could be something to that, honestly. I do because you all have this as well. When I get on calls with guys, they're getting up at half five or five o'clock or 4.30, they're going to the gym, they're doing exercise.

an hour and a half in the gym and then they've got these long days and like i i do and then they might do a cryo chamber or they might do an ice bath and like these are all i think all of these things have utility and benefit but i think not all at once like we need i just i think there's um i just think more men and women and people generally just need to be careful with how

They're giving their energy so that they're not stimulating their nervous system and going into like this, this dominant sympathetic state. You know, I think a lot of people are in this very dominant sympathetic state, particularly like Wim Hof breathing is very in trend. And I think Wim Hof clearly, again, it clearly has utility, but it can put you into this sympathetic state along with the ice baths, put you into a sympathetic state. You know, a lot of these activities put you into this sympathetic dominance. And I just think,

I think we just need to be careful and be more mindful with how we're balancing that out. And I would like you fly the flag for like have a sauna or journal, or, you know, I'm a big fan of having the old cigar and just, just kind of just trying to kick back and, um, not get too caught, too caught up in, in, uh, being, um, in, in doing constantly, you know, it is definitely a trap that, um,

like productivity gurus and things like that. They definitely emphasize that. And I think like one of the rules that I set up for myself, it was actually my dad's recommendation about two years ago. It was probably, yeah, maybe two years ago. He said to me, he's like, he reminded me, he's like, Lucas, you know, you're doing really well with your business. You're working hard. You're doing really well, productive, but you need to set aside from Fridays, 3.30 p.m. onwards, right?

So Friday afternoon all the way to Saturday, full Saturday off. So basically, Friday afternoon all the way to like Sunday night, it's purely leave your office. You need to leave your office. Stop working. Just remove yourself from that environment. Go out. And since I did that, man, like I felt I feel so much better. Like I come back and I'm just –

Yeah, they say taking breaks helps to recharge and it really does, man. Like it really does help to come back invigorated, refreshed and inspired, you know? For sure. For sure. I think that's so important. I think that's so important. I think more people need to understand what you just said there, like the power of just like,

having that contrast between your work and then like your life and like your family or whatever your hobbies and what you enjoy, like I think there has to be that contrast. If you morph the two, I think that's where it gets ugly, you know, because then you're in this kind of perpetual cycle of kind of like a dog chasing its own tail. I think that can compound and become problematic. So yeah, well said. I completely agree with that.

Yeah. What about in terms of, I mean, we're sort of linking here, we've mentioned the prolactin side of things and I love, you know, your perspective on that. As it pertains to like general energy, you've also mentioned vitamin B1, thiamine, like as like a heavy hitter for that side. And that's like, I would have to agree, like out of all the different supplements that I've also experimented with, like

Thymine was one of the ones where like I could feel it within like two to three hours after dosing. And I was like mental clarity was there, zero brain fog, like memory recall, all that sort of stuff was just heightened. So yeah, talk us through that, the energy side of things. Like when guys are complaining of lack of energy, sort of how you address that.

Yeah, I think in terms of lack of energy, I think it's multi-pronged. I think thiamine is powerful. I do find, like you just said there, I think it's one of the few supplements that seems to have a, it makes a tangible immediate difference. And like,

you know with me I can resonate what you said there like memory recall like diction and like my um my verbal fluency like I was kind of you know when you kind of get into those states where the words just come without you having to like having to really think about what you're gonna say it would just come out and I'd be like wow like oh my God like that just that just came out and uh you don't have to fight for it so much it was weird weird things like that that I that I found with it but um

but also yeah, energy and just mood and feeling more aspirational, more positive, more optimistic. But like, you know, my girlfriend,

I guess she was having some menstrual issues and I just thought that let's just try it. She took the B1 and like within a couple of hours, like she literally felt like a new woman. I was like, wow, like that was incredible. And my brother, I actually gave it to my brother recently and he had some health issues and he started taking it. He's also said like, dude, I feel so much more alive, invigorated, just got my energy back and kind of my mojo almost, which is,

Which says a lot, because I feel like to me that suggests that the food we're eating is either heavily depleted in the time, and as in there's probably next to nothing in it, even though it might say on Chronometer or MyFitnessPal that

there may be on the studies, whatever food they're using, that there's thiamine in it. But you and I both know that with the way agriculture is made now and what they put in the soil, how much of it's actually going to truly be in it. So I do wonder, to me, if you're getting such significant effects, that suggests that there's probably a big deficiency that it's helped overcome. And clearly with thiamine,

that that's a it's making a compelling case for maybe a lot more people than we realize that artificial benefit but i think um i i've i've experimented with one called objective nutrients yeah oh yeah yep not the fire max you might have had him on your podcast yeah elliot elliot overton

Yeah, he seems really switched on. He seems super switched on about it. And I like his, his formula with the multi forms. And then, you know, he uses no kind of toxic additives or for this. I'm not an affiliate in case people aren't listening. But it's, it's, it's, I like, I think taking supplements, well, I have a view, well, taking supplements in multiple forms, I think can be wise,

Because then depending on different individuals will obviously absorb different types of the nutrient. And I think if you have like with magnesium, you know, if you've got malate, citrate, carbonate, I don't know, there's multiple forms. The odds are one of those forms will absorb better than others. So I do think as a general rule of thumb, trying to find a supplement that has multiple forms is probably going to be a good thing generally. Like I think...

I do think, and again, it's not to segue or digress, but I think with supplements generally, you've got to be careful with the additives, the fillers, some of the excipients. That can definitely make it a net negative, but that's why it's important, like using objective nutrients or other companies that take a lot of pride in making sure that they don't put those types of toxins in it, you know, because they can be problematic.

Out of all the different supplements that I've also given to my brother, who over the years he's had general fatigue and that sort of stuff, the Thymax, specifically Thymax, the TTFD, within a few days he was saying dramatic improvements. And that could be, obviously every time you eat carbohydrates, you deplete vitamin B1. Yes, I understand that.

Number two is like, yeah, there's a certain class of medications that can severely deplete vitamin B1 levels. Like there's quite a range there. So like it makes sense and it's so funny though. Like you think about if you had to look at like any particular vitamin in a pharmacy store or in a grocery store and you're like, I need something to give me an energy boost. Like most people would probably lean towards like vitamin B12.

and b12 can pack a punch as well but geez like b1 can can really do favors for sure absolutely agree absolutely it's um it is it's potent it is potent but um yeah i'm not i'm not medical so this is just what works for me obviously so uh um uh but yeah it's um it's definitely uh one of the the few that i find has tangible effects along with magnesium i think the two work synergistically you know i um

i definitely think um together they make a a good a good combination something that i've also been curious to to ask you about is your thoughts on like dairy in particular like yogurt milk cheese like what are your thoughts on that yeah i'm pro uh but i think goats in my experience goat's dairy is in like goat's milk or goat's whey or goat's collagen tends to be tolerated way better than cow's ways or cow's milks um so i think

Yeah, goats or sheep derived sources, in my experience, tend to be more premium and more elite than like cows. You know, you and I both know like cows generally tend to be cultivated more poorly. They're fed more bad food or just not...

not appropriate food. And so I do feel like the types of yogurts you can get goats yogurts or sheep yogurts or milks tend to be just much better quality, but also the ingredient integrity tends to be better. And the toleration of it in terms of people that have gut issues or

might react to cow's dairy when they have goats or sheep's dairy they tend to do really well so i'm a big fan of yeah goats and sheep's dairy it's really good yeah yeah no i'm pretty similar to yourself there like i've i've um yeah encouraged guys to incorporate them into their diet and um they they definitely you know i mean the calcium picture calcium to phosphorus ratio like that's something that i went down a rabbit hole exploring as well and i think

Good luck trying to get calcium from like broccoli. Like you just, from vegetables, you're going to struggle. Like you're just going to,

they say kale is high in calcium, but you just then you're getting all the anti anti nutrients and it's just like, you're missing out. Sardines, you can do it. I know sardines, you can get some. But quite honestly, like I actually just I get thirst for like milk and yogurt. Like I crave it. So I don't kind of like even if I saw a study was like, be careful. I'd be like, I'm

I'm just I'm not going to stop it to me it's just it just tastes great like you know what it's like if you come back on a hot day or whatever and you have a glass of milk oh and or if you put a bit of maple syrup or honey in it oh I know it's so good even um even yogurt as well yogurt with the maple syrup um or honey yogurt and honey and raw honey geez great snack it's just so like

You've got a bit of protein, bit of carbs, you've got some polyphenols and benefits in the honey. So I guess, yeah, there's definitely so many different pathways to focus on. You've sort of explored some of those with me here, the cortisol, the thyroid, the testosterone, the prolactin, focusing on nutrient-dense foods. Yeah, so obviously if my audience wants to connect with you, they want to get in touch with you,

and, um, like connect where can they, where can they do so? Yeah, it's just on, on my Twitter. Um, so at my handles at your similar, um, and, uh, yeah, that's where I, that's where I'm mainly. So you can find me there or you can message me that. Awesome. I'll make sure to leave that, uh, linked in the podcast show notes for those listening in. Um, so if they want to connect with Simo, but, um, man, it was a, it was a pleasure chatting with you and, um,

Yeah, it's just very fluent. So I think there's definitely going to have to be a round two in the new year. So yeah, thanks for jumping on the podcast, Simo. Nice one. Thanks for having me, Lucas. Cheers. Awesome. Thank you.

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