311. Testosterone & Hormone Optimisation With Hans Amato
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Thank you for listening to the Boost Your Biology Podcast. My name is Lucas Owen. I uncover the most cutting-edge health information on the planet, ranging from hormones, nutrition, supplementation, fat loss, biohacking, longevity, wellness, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the Boost Your Biology Podcast. What's up, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome back to the Boost Your Biology Podcast.

We have Hans joining us in the studio again. Hans, what's happening, man? All chill, man. Thanks for having me again. Yeah, awesome, awesome. You've had your agmatine, your vitamin B1, any other supps so far today? Just my regular ones. I did blood work yesterday, so I'm waiting for the results I'm going to get later after this call.

so I checked my as I mentioned to you before like some of my experiments is just to increase dhga igf1 see what happened to my scpg thyroid and whatnot and obviously the dhd stuff so my main stack is just primarily to increase igf1 so I want to see like what's happening there so that was just that's kind of the supplements that I'm taking but um yeah for for the mental zest augmenting that I took with b1 and I love to pair that with paracetam but I ran out of stock so

You know, it's funny. I'm glad you brought up the IGF-1 because when I was – I just finished training legs and in the gym, I had a buddy of mine ask me questions about IGF-1. And he asked me – and he actually put me on the spot because I was like, whoa, like I wasn't – I was mid-set, right? Like I was so focused on training legs and then I was – all the blood flow is going to my legs and my IQ drops massively. Yeah.

I actually find that's actually a thing when I train legs, like during the workout, I have really bad cognition, like just in the moment. Like I feel like I lose blood flow to the brain. It makes a lot of sense. The body, you know, prioritizes different parts. And he's like, tell me about IGF-1. Why would someone, well, why would a bodybuilder use IGF-1 instead of growth hormone? And I said to him,

Maybe because there's less risk of insulin resistance that develops with... Is that true? Actually, yeah. This is why most people recommend not going over to IUs. And you want to keep an eye on your fasting glucose. So the higher the dose that you're going to be using, and obviously, that depends on how effectively it increases your IGF-1. The reason why people want to use IGF-1 is because that's the anabolic one. Growth hormone in itself is not anabolic.

It needs to convert into IGF-1. Like if you fast, your growth hormone goes up, but you're not in an anabolic phase when you're fasting. It's like when you eat, then IGF-1 spikes and it's like, okay, let's add some muscle. Is it with the growth hormone aggravating or worsening blood sugar levels, is that because growth hormone increases gluconeogenesis? Like what's the pathway there?

The main one is because it stimulates lipolysis, same as estrogen. And so when you have an excessive amount of free fatty acids roaming in the blood, it's going to interfere with glucose oxidation, especially in the absence of insulin. So if you're going to be using insulin, and that's the same thing with IGF-1. IGF-1 promotes insulin sensitivity because of the insulin-like effects.

So the growth hormone competes with insulin. And so if you're in a low insulin state, you have an excess amount of free fatty acids that's just going to, due to the Randall cycle for one of the reasons, mesh with glucose oxidation. Interesting.

Yeah, so you said you just did blood work. So you're basically just assessing IGF-1, DHEA, DHT? I have a whole list. I can read it to you real quick. So I usually have like a big ish list. And the cool thing about Africa is it's actually cheap-ish to do blood tests. Like I've seen people do like spend a grand or two like on blood tests. Like, oh my gosh, that's so expensive. Yeah.

So my standard list is growth hormone IGF-1, TSH, free T3, a lipogram, DHA sulfate, liver panel, complete blood count, free testosterone, which includes total SSBG, estradiol. I forgot to test my prolactin. That's going to be on next time. Vitamin D that I got this time because I haven't tested before, basic metabolic panel. And then every now and again, I would throw in some random stuff if I'm interested in it and if they have it. But that's kind of like the basic one I run over and over and over again.

That entire panel in Australia would cost a minimum of $500. That's expensive. I know. It's crazy. I actually don't have any clients in like South Africa, but most of them are US-based. And I'm sure you work with guys like that from the States, probably majority of your clients. And they pay like what, $200, $300 US usually? Yeah.

Depending on where they get labs on you, I've just spoke to a guy and I think I gave him a little bit easier panel and he was spending like over a grand on it. It's like, man, that's expensive. Crazy, crazy. So it's funny you mentioned that because this morning I actually did blood work myself. I actually ordered a panel, but it was a really very specific panel. It was prolactin, iron studies, and TSH-T4-T3. Okay.

They're just ones that I like to keep an eye on. So specifically that TSH, I have seen it drop all the way down to like 0.6, which is pretty damn low. And I was like doing some research on boron potential. I don't know if you've seen this with clients you've worked with, but have you ever seen boron actually increase T3 at all?

Oh, that's a good question. I don't think I haven't really recommended boron all that much. So maybe I should do an experiment myself to see. But yeah, like what have you noticed? I'd be curious because I did see some evidence suggesting that boron can actually raise T3 levels. I'll have to go back to the study. And I think they were using like maybe six to 10 milligrams, which is about what most guys use.

And they did see an increase in T3 levels, an increase in like vitamin D reduction in like CRP levels.

Personally, I've actually never seen my... Have you ever seen your CRP, like your inflammation marker, actually like really high before? Or is it always less than three? No, I think the highest I've gotten was over one, but it was never over two. And I was like, okay, something's going on. But it was an acute thing. I'm not exactly sure. Maybe it was a supplement I was using because my eosinophils was also elevated. So I think it was more like an allergic response to something than anything else though.

Interesting. I'd be curious to hear about your thoughts on like, for example, today, this guy was describing that anytime he does very intense exercise, his entire nervous system just completely crashes. Have you ever sort of worked with a client that's sort of similar in that regard? And it's like, what did you do to be like diagnostic in that regard?

Yeah, so obviously, usually when that happens, they weren't like that before. And then it happened over time or there was an event that happened and it was like, okay,

What's the root cause that might have caused it? Because it's an insult on the nervous system. So either there's something wrong with the mitochondria, you can't produce energy, maybe your lactate production is just out of control, right? So every time you exercise, you get leaky gut, you absorb more toxins, and that's going to inflame the body. And just the fact that you're exercising alone increases inflammation markers. If your body can't deal with it, you're going to go in this excessively inflamed state.

So I would say that's probably the biggest thing I was like, I want to look at, okay, how's your gut health? Do you have leaky gut? Do you have an overgrowth of pathogenic bacteria? What nutritional deficiencies do you have that is causing it? Because I've done some quite intensive research on the difference between old and young and then exercise intolerance and why do older individuals recover so much slower than younger individuals?

And it just ultimately comes down to there's changes in the microbiome. Obviously, the hormones drop, testosterone, T3, they get nutritional deficiencies. Because let's say someone is eating four ounces or 100 grams of red meat per day. In their 20s, they might be fine. 30s is going to be like less zinc, less zinc, less zinc. And by the time you hit your 50s, you're like quite deficient in it. Now you have like low testosterone.

And like it took a couple of decades to get there. But then it's like, oh, nothing changed. My diet remained the same. It just gets worse and worse and worse. So like you have to spot these trends. But I would say like something is causing a boatload of inflammation for him. You know what's crazy? I completely forgot to mention the fact that it all started when he used finasteride. Probably destroyed his gut and my chondra. Yeah, well, the thing is, is there...

Like we talk about this, like we obviously discuss finasteride affecting mitochondria, affecting gut health, but like, is it even, I mean, have you actually seen direct studies that actually say that it has a damaging effect or is it more interpolation, extrapolation, like you're sort of thinking two steps ahead sort of thing?

No, there is definitely some research to suggest that it's toxic to the mitochondria and it also causes gut issues. Like this, there was an animal study and obviously the microbiome between like a rat or a mouse is not the same as with a human. So there's some differences there, but

This was really interesting to me where while on finasteride, these animals didn't get any gut issues. The moment they got them off of it, this is when negative changes started to happen. It's like, how strange is that? Like that would explain like BFS, right? So people don't get issues while on at the moment they stop, they start getting issues. So that was just interesting to me. Yeah. In terms of like rebuilding, because obviously he was also wondering like,

What can you use to like rebuild that nervous system stability to build that tolerance to exercise? Like I know you oftentimes will say like let's look at diet, let's rebuild nutrition, let's fortify protective hormones, let's support thyroid, let's support pregnenolone, DHEA, that sort of stuff. Any particular mitochondrial supplements that you might leverage like maybe even vitamin B1, like things like that?

I like the ones that's already found in the body, right? So, Coenzyme Q10, Carnozine, using like beta-alanine, taurine, like the stuff that's already there that your body uses, like especially Coenzyme Q10. Like that one is really important, the NAD to NADH ratio, the B vitamins that you just mentioned. Like make sure the nutrients is there. When the nutrients are there, the body should work the way it's supposed to.

And then you want to look at like what is inhabiting my mitochondria from working. So I wouldn't jump right on like SS31 or like some kind of mitochondrial peptide or thing like that. I'm not saying it's not useful. It's not the first thing that I would do. I would rather focus on like calcium ketamine or something like that.

Yeah, yeah. Any other interesting sort of experiments or hacks or things that you've seen a number of guys sort of playing around with it at the moment? Is there anything sort of trending that you've sort of seen pop up? Trending? In terms of supplements, I think you're more like the niche supplement guy. Yeah.

I can say like one of the things that I've started to experiment now, I forgot to take it this morning, is raspberry ketones. So it also acts on the capsaicin receptor, right? And there were some interesting studies. What was that? Prosper ketones? Raspberry. Oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yep. Yeah. So it's basically sold primarily as a fat loss supplement. That's not the reason I'm using it, right? Because it activates the, as I mentioned, the capsaicin receptor, which then can actually increase IGF-1. So I want to see if actually it can do that. And so yesterday I didn't take any caffeine.

I just took raspberry ketones and I felt like that little bit of twitchiness that you get from caffeine. So one of the mechanisms of actions of raspberry ketones is that it enhances norepinephrine-induced lipolysis. So I'm not sure if it also promotes norepinephrine release or just enhances the effects of norepinephrine, but I definitely felt like that's a weird stimulation effect from the... So I'm glad I didn't take it. I'd be a little twitchy on the podcast. Yeah.

That's interesting. I mean, I think raspberry ketones were like one of the OG supplements for like over-the-counter fat loss agents. I think also combined with like Garcinia Cambogia. Do you remember Garcinia Cambogia?

an African mango or something like that, which like blocks... Do you remember these ones? Yeah, it was like weird stuff. But like I read some research on the raspberry yesterday again, and it's like basically useless supplements. Like if you don't eat less, you're not going to lose any fat. There's got to be no magic to it. But you obviously... I mean, that's where it comes into like you're not using it for its fat loss benefits. You're trying to understand it from like a biochemical... You know, you've got your own...

like objective is different from what it's actually very well studied for, which is like, it's almost like off label usage. Yeah, exactly. And like this, this is why it's also so important to taste because like, I know, I want to maximize my idea of one. So I'm going to taste for that. So this is what like irks me a little bit online as people use supplements, like, yeah, I feel it. And it's like, did you taste? It's like, no.

Well, like maybe you're not going to feel like a hundred point increase in IGF-1. Like maybe over six months, you're going to feel that, but not right away. So where's like the future heading in terms of like, okay, you're being ruthless with experimentation and also tracking, like not everyone's like that. So do you think in the future we're going to have like technology? I mean, you've seen those CGM, the wearable glucose monitors, right?

I'm hoping you're probably also hoping that one day they're also tracking all these other biomarkers, right? In the future. Because if they did, I'd be so happy. I thought that would be the most interesting thing is to look at your testosterone, right? So one of the things that I've also been tracking lately is my lactate levels. So you have glucose that you test, then you can test your triglycerides and lactate. But ideally, you want to check your pyruvate to lactate ratio where you don't have a pyruvate meter yet.

So, which is really interesting because you check it fast and you check your response to food. And then you also check it in scenarios where you feel weird. Like sometimes you'll feel like, man, I'm feeling hypo. I'm feeling like brain zonked. And then you test your lactate and glucose during those times. And I've seen it like many times before, man.

I will eat like a huge bonus of meat carbohydrates. Glucose is freaking amazing. And then lactate is just like doing weird things. And then it's going up, then it's going down, then it's going up. It's like, okay, well, it's like happening to my lactate. And it will give you a better idea of like which potential nutrients you might need more of in specific doses. So the same thing with testosterone.

It's like if you can do a testosterone, like a CGM thing, I think that would be freaking amazing. Like you can see like how is my testosterone changing with workouts? Because like a lot of people's like, how should I be working out for testosterone? It's like, what is happening to testosterone after workout? Because you can crushing yourself and then after workout, it's like tanking. And then you're like at the 60s, like below 300 because of the workout. So I think that's one thing people should be keeping in mind. You should be supporting your T afterward.

You know what? Let's keep a lookout for any startups that are working on a CTM, a continuous testosterone monitor. Because if there is a company out there right now, I would literally invest money into that company or just want to try it straight away. I reckon that would be unbelievably helpful for all of us.

Yeah. But it's not really going to be helpful for the people on distortion because ultimately that's what they want to sell, right? It's like, yeah. But it's not going to be that helpful though. But otherwise, it is a fascinating thing to look at. Well, it's an interesting one for Natty, like semi-half Natties, like guys like us who are not... I don't even know what you want to call it, half Natty. Yeah, the enhanced Natty. Yeah, the enhanced Natty. Like...

It makes sense to be able to, okay, first of all, let's say you did acquire a continuous testosterone monitor, CTM. What would be like your, I'd be curious to know, like what experiments would you want to run on yourself? Like straight away to like, if you got it tomorrow, what would you do? Man, I would probably first do the training one to see like, okay, I would first like to see what's my rhythm during the day.

Because like everyone is tasting and I've like seen studies where people are 800 in the morning and then literally an hour later, they are 300. It's like, well, I feel hypotestosterone, but your testosterone is high because of the time that you're checking. So I want to know like, what's my rhythm and variation during the day. And then also, um,

What is my responses to stress? Because like I spoke to my wife about this, which I find interesting is like testosterone is just a signaling molecule and it can actually help you to adapt. So this is why black people tend to have higher levels of testosterone. But when they analyze where these people lived, they lived in more dangerous environments. And so the testosterone had to go up as a compensation mechanism. Right. So that's

And then I want to know, like, why do stress increase the exhaustion of some people but not other people? And then you can know your response to stress and then also the kind of stress that you're undergoing. Because different kinds of stresses will give you different responses. And I find that really interesting. And then you can know how to support your body better with, like, do I need this kind of adaptogen or that kind of adaptogen? Do I need more of, like, you know, whatnot? So I want to learn how to support my body specifically with a CGM.

And then I would also play around with, because I think a lot of testosterone boosters are useless in the sense where they will might spike your testosterone for like 30 minutes or like even like three hours. And then I don't like those peaks and valleys. It's like, what's the point? Well, I guess it would make sense if you're going to do a sporting event or like a workout and you get that spike and you support that. So Vince Gironda, he supplemented like testicles before his workout.

And I find that interesting, like maybe that supported it. And you also mentioned like you supplemented, you felt like this surge of energy when using it. It's so, it's like every time I use it, it does give that like two to three hour boost. Even when my brother first tried it, he's just like, we actually questioned whether or not it had like, it was spiked with like pro-hormones or something. Because the effect is so pronounced. It was so ridiculously strong. But yeah,

Yeah, I agree. It'd be awesome to be able to establish that sort of data from running these sort of experiments. If you take a big dose of tribulus, does it actually lead to an acute spike in testosterone? Or is the feeling that you're getting just dopamine? And you're like, oh, I'm feeling a testosterone. I've always wondered this, like guys that take T-boosters,

They say that they feel great. Like a perfect example would be maca powder. Maca powder doesn't have any documented benefits on testosterone. As far as I've researched, you might have seen anything, but it does have like pro-no adrenaline, pro-like probably anti-prolactin, pro-dopamine effects. And guys...

probably take it and two hours later they're like i can feel it well what can you feel it's not the testosterone yeah yeah no 100 like i feel it's the exact same thing with like the testicles it's like the amount of testosterone in it is so small like even pine pollen right people's like oh it contains phytoandrogens it's like do you know how low the dose is like it's not doing anything for your androgens like if you're feeling it is something else right i would like to know what that something else is hmm

So what about nutrition? Would you run any nutritional experiments if you had a CTM, a continuous testosterone monitor? Yeah. That's a great question. I don't know. Yeah.

Because I think we could be starting to chase the wrong thing if we're excessively obsessing about a CTM. Like you also have to keep in mind, how do you feel? And am I making gains? Am I feeling good? How's my sexual function? Right. Because, um,

Like, for example, I've injected testosterone before, like high doses. And I've written about this before. Like, I don't feel it helped me in any regard in anything whatsoever, except more muscle density. That's basically like, there's no certain libido. Everyone's gonna like, just give it time, bro. Your libido is gonna like, nope. Like I felt much more from androsterone or dopaminergics for libido than testosterone of itself. So I would just be cautious if we're chasing the wrong thing.

I'm going to step in because I also acquired the testosterone gel, right? The transdermal testosterone. And I use it about...

10 or 11 times in total, which is enough for me to be like just an acute gauge on the effects. The first few times that I use it, there was maybe a very slight improvement in strength in the gym. I took it deliberately before the gym. Again, that could have been placebo. But what you're saying about that in terms of it's going to be like the holy grail, I mean, I'm sitting at probably like

to maybe like 950 as a natty total T. And then I'm like adding into, so it actually, I didn't get like, I was hoping to get what the guys who say when they use testosterone, they get the, you know, exactly what you said.

I didn't get it, man. So I literally dropped it. And I'm like, I don't think I even need this. And I really don't think I'm going to bet it. I can't see a practical use for this, but I can see a practical use for exactly what you said, like androsterone or like some sort of dopaminergic. It's like, you're going to get better bang for buck, you know?

Yeah. I was also wondering, like, why would some people say like testosterone makes them feel like God mode? It's like, I have used quite high doses and I've never felt God mode, except from like more DHT boosting compounds. And it's like, was their baseline just so low that feeling normal felt like God mode? That's what I'm thinking.

Yeah, I still haven't gotten around to using the DHT gel. I don't know what it is, but I'm just like, it's just sitting in my cupboard and I haven't even just like pulled it out to try it yet. Probably because I'm actually more excited about trying CJC1295, which I finally got from a reliable vendor. So I'm a bit more excited about just testing that out.

Because the MK677 just destroyed my, it just made me search for sugar like you wouldn't believe. It was uncontrollable. Like, yeah, there was no controlling that. I'd be like out for dinner and I'm like just looking forward to like dessert even before I finished mains. Did you listen to your cravings?

I did, man. I didn't hold back. I just had to. I probably, my HBA1C when I was using MKs, my HBA1C, I'm too scared to check. I'm too, my ego is too big. I'm too scared to check, but I'm sure it went up. I think it's probably like 5.6 or 5.7 right now. Oh my gosh, that's funny. Yeah.

As long as you're like overeating in an excessive amount in duration, then it should be fine. Yeah, like I use it. I didn't get a certain appetite, so I'm happy about this. I would say, and a lot of people report this as well, when using thyroid like on a consistent basis, like that's really when your appetite starts to pick back up. But to me, it's like I'm trying to calm myself. It's like, okay, my metabolism is also faster, so maybe I can afford a little bit more food. Exactly. Actually, the other day, speaking of thyroid, I was,

T3 administration, so like using T3, I wasn't aware of this, but even after stopping can actually help to like bump out the reverse T3 or something like that. Have you heard about that?

I'm not 100% sure on exactly what you're saying, but reverse T3 is created from T4. So if you use pure T3, you're going to suppress your T4. So ultimately, or are you saying like by competition on the receptor? What I've heard is that it can sort of re-kickstart that axis, like the HPT axis. It's probably what you just said there. T4 is...

So what you're saying is T4 gets converted into reverse T3 in the liver? Yeah.

Well, wherever, because like the body is like, so think about it this way. Everyone is obsessing about reverse T3, but you don't, it's not always necessary to obsess about it. Like you want to look at other markers, like your lipids as well. So because like if your body is creating too much T4, what's your body going to do with that T4? That's an axis, not converting to T3 because then you're going to get hyperthyroid. So any axis T4 is going to get converted to reverse T3. So under bad conditions of inflammation and stress, whether

When overall T3 is low, but reverse T3 is high, that's bad. But if your free T3 is optimal and your lipids, temperature, heart rate, all those stuff is also normal, then slightly elevated reverse T3 is fine. As long as you're not expressing those hypothyroid symptoms. But yeah, like using T3 only is going to bring down your reverse T3 and should make you a little bit more hypermetabolic. Pretty interesting. Yeah. I thought, just made me think of something there like,

What happens in the body when it creates too much DHT? Oh, all of a sudden it creates reverse DHT. Reverse DHT.

Dude, you bring up a great point. I think not a lot of people know this. You have 5-beta reductase as well. You have 5-alpha reductase. So 5-beta creates neutrals. There is like very weak androgens to neutral. So it's again like it's this competition between the 5-beta and 5-alpha reductase steroids. So the most powerful thing that improves the 5-alpha to 5-beta ratio is T3.

They've given people just a boatload of T3. There was a crazy experiment, 200 micrograms of T3. And it skyrocketed that 5 alpha to 5 beta ratio. Yeah, because that ratio is analyzed on the Dutch test. And I've actually, yeah, most guys that I've worked with have never really been very far on the 5 alpha. They've just sort of been like middle, midpoint.

Is that something you've seen as well? Yeah, yeah. Very infrequently, you'll see someone that's going either way. They're always relatively balanced. So most people can anyway benefit from more thyroid hormone anyway. Yeah. Did you ever use T3 as an experiment yourself? I'm actually doing it right now. Oh, really? Oh, okay. Nice. What dosage? Three micrograms every two hours during the day. So it's just a 25 microgram capsule that I am a...

nibbling on nice throughout the day oh nice oh so you're doing so what's the rationale with the frequent dosage schedule instead of once bolus yeah so your thyroid is producing a boatload of t4 and then your body is converting it in the tissue on demand so if someone is supplementing like think about it let's say your body is making two micrograms three micrograms four micrograms every two hours or like let's say two micrograms every hour

Now you're supplementing like a boatload, 25 micrograms all at once. Like you're flooding the body with an excessive amount of T3. And if someone that's hypo and hyperthyroid, both of them are unhealthy. You want to be in the middle. So if you're spiking yourself with an excessive amounts, like T3 is catabolic. If you look at fat loss studies and they supplement T3, these people are losing 50% or more of the weight that they're losing is muscle.

It's a lot. So what you're saying there is T3 could be the new Ozempic. Except that it makes you really hungry. Yeah, okay.

Interesting. Is that also because the appetite stimulation from T3, is that well documented? Or is that like a subjective thing you've noticed? It's subjective. I'm actually working with a client as well. And for him, it's a good thing because his appetite is low and his digestion is suppressed. So for him using it and being more hungry and actually digesting meat better is a really good thing. Because like thyroid is essential for proper stomach acid secretion, transit time, absorption of nutrients, all of those kind of stuff.

But I think it can go both ways. Like it's someone that's hypo can have suppressed appetite or excessive appetite. It can go both ways. So you said before that in some of the weight loss studies that a lot of the weight loss from T3 is coming from the catabolic nature of T3 itself. Like it's what's happening there. So it's like really speeding up the metabolic rate. And I'm not 100% sure on the mechanisms, but it's like,

So, okay, I'm not going to go into the mechanisms because I'm not 100% sure. I know it's just like speeding up the metabolic rates. Like I need them nutrients. And then perhaps because you don't have it eaten, like enough glucose, the body's like, okay, I need to break this muscle down to supply glucose. So that could be one of the main reasons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it makes me wonder whether or not, like how likely is it to see an obese person in a hyperthyroid state? Like have you ever seen...

an obese individual with high T3, like I mean, off the scale high? No, no. A base is going to be normal. Yeah, me too. Yeah, every single high T3 individual that I've seen, like I'm talking six and above in our reference range, generally is leaner. They just...

They have more energy. They're more resilient. They feel like they've got a sufficient amount of energy off a little bit of sleep. The high T3 individual, like a high DHT individual, there's a particular, I don't know how to describe it. They just have good vitality. They have good vitality.

Yeah, no, it's 100%. Like your body, like T3 creates your ATP and the ATP is necessary for the absorption, retention of nutrients for enzymes to work. Like just improving T3 or like temporarily using T3 is going to be, it's a hack. Like, like if you want to optimize your digestion, like most people go for digestion fitters or like B10, ATL, which is good.

But what if you just optimize your thyroid? Like sometimes that's basically all you need. That's going to stimulate the secretion of stomach acid, speed up your transit time. Like one of the things I noticed with thyroid is I'm pooping so much more, like three times a day, which is excessive. Like ain't nobody got time for that.

I know, I know. Well, it's speeding up transit time. It's increasing stomach acid. And if you look at the complete opposite, those that are hypothyroid, lacking thyroid, they always complain about feeling constipated. They're always cold. Their digestion is terrible. Their appetite is like a little bit low. But imagine that. Imagine if you could also do like a continuous –

thyroid monitor another ctm you got one one on the left you got this ctm on the left and this ctm on the right later on you're just gonna have like this big bulky thing on you that's just gonna track all of the markers all at once elon musk is working on it as we speak probably hopefully but but question to you man like what would you do with a ctm like what would you test yeah

Oh, geez. I would definitely love to see the impact of sleep deprivation. I'd really be curious. I mean, I already know that sleep deprivation is bad, but I want to know actually how bad is it for testosterone. I would also love to know the impact of certain types of training. If I did like a really intense HIIT workout versus...

where my heart rate got up to like 180 versus like just a big leg session. Am I getting a bigger surge in testosterone post-workout from hitting legs? In my opinion, I personally think probably going to get a bigger surge from hitting legs. Like I'm sure you could probably agree with that. And then also...

Playing around with... Well, I would definitely be curious to know how a lot of different drugs, a lot of different supplements affect testosterone. You know, even...

Maybe during or just before sexual activity. I'd be curious to see. It would make sense that it does spike, but maybe during a mid-session do a check on the arm if it's in real time. I've actually done that before, but for glucose, by the way. I'm crazy. I'm weird. What was the effect? Did you get a spike? No.

I think it was just, yeah, there was a slight increase during. That makes sense. It's the adrenaline. It's the excitement, all that sort of stuff. But yeah, maybe even red light exposure on the testes and then also icing, like testicular cooling, whether or not there's like an acute effect. Because I have seen, I don't know if you've seen this, man, but I actually came across some new

new research that testosterone can actually get trapped in the, there's a certain layer of the testicles called, called the tunica albica or tunica alba or something like that. Um,

And that's why testicular massage, like massaging the testes can actually release more testosterone into the bloodstream. Have you heard about that? I've heard about that. I thought like there was a lot of quack signs. So it would be interesting to know like if it actually works. I think like a lot of people, this is my hypothesis, why they feel better from a testicular massage. It's like, it's just a massage in general. Like you just relax more and like more dopamine oxytocin and you feel better. But

It's an interesting hypothesis. Yeah. And then diet-wise, hmm.

I mean, saturated fat, I understand that. Eggs, maybe what would happen if you ate a lot of cholesterol? Did you ever see a study where they actually tested what percentage of actual dietary cholesterol gets converted? Did you post something about that once? I would say there was this human study where they compared three whole eggs versus six egg whites. And the group that was eating the whole eggs got a 250 nanogram per deciliter increase, which

which is quite impressive, just from three eggs. I personally did 32 eggs for 30 days. It was like a thousand eggs in a month. And my testosterone only went up by like 50. So that was very sad. I wonder why the eggs are out of stock. I can't find any eggs. It's because you've eaten them all, man.

I went to the supermarket and there were no, there was no more eggs left. I'm like that, damn, that's where they went. Yeah. Like you go to the supermarket, it's like tray, tray, tray, tray. And it's like, you don't want a restaurant. No, this is for like three days.

So you did roughly 1,000 eggs over a one-month period. So you did how many per day? Was that 30? 32. So yeah, I had this five-liter container. I added milk and then just like tons of yolks and just mix it and drink it throughout the day. Wow. So you only saw like a small increase in...

But there would have been a lot of other probably variables. Like, did you start stop any supplements during that time and stuff like that? No, I think it was a relatively pure experiment that I did. But for me, my allergy seems to be the limiting factor, not the cholesterol bioavailability.

So it would have maybe been interesting if I were to use enclomophene before, see what my test is, and then use the eggs on top of that to see if I get an additional boost from that. Or like if someone were to use HEG only, because that stimulates like the same thing as allege, and then it might have been an interesting experiment. Yeah, I was talking to another guy the other day, and he was saying in his mind, you know, he was on testosterone for like eight years, right?

He wasn't using a whole lot. He was using like, I think 120 milligrams a week. So he wasn't like being abusive. Using seven to eight years straight and then stopped abruptly. So he quit cold turkey, didn't do a PCT. And this was really, really silly. And then just basically said to himself, he's going to try and quit cold turkey and brute force, deal with the symptoms by himself. He ended up

getting like all these weird neurological side effects like dizziness, like real bad vision. He's got all these vision issues that he correlates to coming off abruptly, which I was like really trying to understand that. Like how could that affect vision?

And like, is there something happening with the pituitary or like, you know, I would say guts. Like I was actually rereading the study, like your gut specifically DHT is about 70 times more DHT in the gut, in the colon, the feces than there is in the serum. Like it's one of the next two that taste this, the colon is one of the highest organs like in DHT. So now you're stopping the testosterone. You're probably experiencing a 10 X drop in,

in testosterone, you're experiencing a massive drop in DHT in the colon. And we know how important hormones is for including colon health and your hormones and your urgence matters shape the microbiome. So this is the same thing what happens with finasteride, right?

I would say there's some correlation there. You stop finasteride, the microbiome changes. You stop testosterone, the microbiome changes. Like I know when I was unhealthy with low testosterone, I had blurry vision and it correlated a lot with specific foods that I ate. So if I ate like the meat and honey diet, my vision was like relatively clean. If I supplemented vitamin B2 or taurine, it would improve. But then just maximizing testosterone, calming the immune system, lowering overall inflammation, healing the pathogens, like vision is clear.

That's super interesting. Yeah. In his mind, he also was saying that he believes that HCG and climafina are his only ways to sort of re-kickstart that axis, which is somewhat, you know, he's got a pretty good theory there. Like it could be he's very sensitive to HCG. So he's like said to me that he just can't even use it at all.

And I'm like, okay, fair enough. There are other ways to re-kickstart that axis. So N-climafin, yes, he's microdosing, trying to reintroduce that. Even like he's only doing like three milligrams, 3.25 milligrams because he's so sensitive. But I said like, there's plenty of other things that you could do to re-kickstart that axis as well. Like what would you, in that case, what would you consider re-kickstarting

in that situation. I last year was all about like increasing my allege. And the only thing that really helped was obviously eating a nutrient dense diet, but then ginger seems to have a really profound effect.

Some people are having success with bullbine, that seems to work also really well. Some people say fedoja, I haven't tried that one myself, so can't say if it does. There's some evidence that shustange might, but the effect might be quite small, so I don't know if I can recommend that. I've tried like high-dose glycine, argmatine, taurine, vitamin B1, like garlic and onion, which is supposed to do that. That didn't have an effect on me. Like, that might be me. Yeah.

The taurine had no effect on LH. I've also noticed that as well. I've never seen any increase in LH from taurine at all. Yeah, like I was like last year just debunking like all of the animal studies. Biotin is amazing. This is amazing. That's amazing. Like, no, no, it's not. Like it didn't do anything. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, because...

Well, there is a bit of evidence like, I mean, animal studies talking about honey with the chrysan, you know, affecting luteinizing hormone. I still believe honey is a beneficial food, right? It's still a very beneficial food, but it didn't increase your LH, right? Yeah, like, yeah, I was having honey all the time. And this is one thing people should remember. Like when they, let's say you look at the garlic and onion studies for animals, right? Like it was the...

So diallyl disulfide is the compound specifically responsible for increasing allage. And you have to isolate. Do you know how much you need of that compound? You're probably like, eat a kilogram of onion a day. You're going to look like freaking bloated AF. It's not going to work, right? Like I'm eating onion, bro. Did you know that's doing nothing for your testosterone? Yeah. Yeah.

But in saying that, like when I, so like I'll still eat onion, right? I know that it's like, I'll still eat onion. I know that it's not going to really have a hugely meaningful effect on testosterone, but I'm not eating it for that reason. Like I'll eat it because I want a bit of the quercetin. I want a bit of the immune benefits because a lot of those things you will get even at food dosages though, right?

Yeah, yeah, like for sure, like all of these foods add up, right? Like you have a little bit of this, a little bit of that. Over time, you get healthier and higher T, like even vegans can have high T. So I'm not against these foods. Let's hope nobody snippets that from this podcast, man. You're in trouble. You're in trouble.

No, I try to be that guy that's like, this is the only way. I've seen guys, you know, vegans, carnivores all over the place have iron load to you. Yeah, I have as well. I mean, I was working with Australia's fittest man.

um, James Newberry. Um, and he's, he was vegan at the time that he did his, his, um, testosterone tests. And it came back at like 900 and I'm like, man, he's very strong and he's doing power lifting. Like he's doing all the right, he's weight training a lot, like doing all the right things, but he's vegan, but he's, he's still got high tests. So like it is possible. Um,

Could it be higher if he was eating meat? Probably. Maybe. Yeah. The thing is everyone is so different in what they need. And there's a lot of nutrients that you're not high in if you're a vegan, like biotin, vitamin B2. If you're not supplementing those, you might be in trouble. So it's really just up to the individual. I would just recommend eat whatever makes you feel good and you flourish on it.

One thing that I've come across recently, I don't know if you've ever seen it in your own research, is a new vitamin called vitamin A5. Did you ever see that? Vitamin A5? No. Yeah. It's like a nutritional... It's like a retinoic acid derivative. Yeah.

Um, that's, I've spoken to a few guys in like the anhedonia dopamine sort of optimization space. And, um, there's some pretty interesting research on it affecting dopamine receptors. So I was looking into, they call it vitamin A5 or vitamin X. It's like, it wasn't established by Elon Musk. I can, I can assure you that. But, um,

I thought it was pretty interesting, man. So we should probably... What we could actually do, we should do some independent research ourselves on it and maybe present what we've learned about it to people on the podcast because it does seem pretty interesting. Yeah, I will do that. That sounds very interesting. I know vitamin A is important for...

testosterone, fertility, and those kind of stuff, dopamine, neurotransmitters, like anti-caterpillars help to deactivate cortisol. But then you have guys like Grant, the antivitamin, is it Grant? The older James. I know who you're talking about. Yeah. All right. So like, he's testosterone, I think it was like 500 or whatnot. It's like, it's not like he's, he doesn't have any testosterone despite being low vitamin A. So

I think there's a lot we don't know. And he's not doing tissue biopsies to know like how much vitamin A is still in his latic cells. Yeah, yeah. Because would you say that it's pretty fair to say that most fat soluble vitamins are somewhat slightly anti-aromatase, like pro-testosterone to a degree? Yeah.

Yeah, I would say so. You see this with vitamin D, vitamin K, vitamin E, like all of them, and also vitamin A. People would say the research was botched, but there's so many repeat studies that show beneficial effects in that regard. Yeah, with the vitamin A5, it's called 3-dehydroretinol, and they're saying that it's structurally similar to just normal vitamin A, but...

Funnily enough, the actual main sources of vitamin A, I've just done some research, fish eyes and some marine organisms. So yeah, in some freshwater fish, there are no plant-based sources of vitamin A5. So we'll have to look into it. We'll definitely look into it and do some further research on that. That's another thing that I find very interesting is the different forms of vitamins and the

Like let's have vitamin B3, right? You have NR, NMN, niacin, niacinamide. You have different forms, including B6. That's found in like milk contains some NR and a little bit of meat contains NMN. Like when you look at chronometer, they, as far as I know, taste like niacin or niacinamide, but not the other forms. So you might be consuming, like, for example, that vitamin A that you just spoke about, but you never know.

because they don't test for that specific one. Like this is what I find interesting, like the different forms. And the same thing with vitamin B1, right? How do we know there's such a specific form in animal foods? Because like meat and like a lot of animal foods just seem to be low in B1. But people don't tend to get like a B1 deficiency on a carnivore diet, which is to me, it's interesting. Well, the B1, vitamin B1 deficiency is more likely to occur in a high carnivore

sugar state though, right? Is that what would happen? Because like glucose obviously uses up B1. If you're eating like ultra refined, yeah, for sure. But if you eat like rice or potatoes, it's unlikely to happen. Like when people just eat rice diet, they develop other deficiencies first, not just B1 deficiency. If it's like the ultra processed one. Are there any like particular fruits that you would say are like

I don't know, like you probably like extensively researched or you think that most guys should incorporate into their diet because the benefits are too great? I...

When you research fruit, you realize all of them has unique benefits. And it's like, okay, wait, we should just have all of them. And which one do you like the most? It's like, well, pomegranates try to be pretty good. Even guava, mango, passion fruit, kiwi. It feels to me silly to say you should be eating this one or that one. It's really dependent on what you're taught about the best and what makes you feel the best. And you will find amazing research on all of them. That's fair. That's fair. Yeah. I mean, if you go...

researching apples, like apples, gut health, oranges, calcium diglucarate, like raspberries, polyphenols, blueberries, terastilbene, bananas. I can't think of anything special. Did you see the...

Wasn't there like some girl that did like heaps of bananas and she checked her dopamine levels or something? Really? Yeah, I recall there was like... No, I haven't been up to date with anything like that. But I love bananas. Like if you can do... Yeah, it was like... Was it in the skin? I'm unfamiliar with that. There's some research that it's also very high in serotonin and it could cause sexual dysfunction. So I just be careful with the skin. Yeah.

Yeah. Are you going to be sharing the results of your microdosing T3 experiment anywhere for my listeners? Yeah, I've been using it for a week now. So I will have results later today. And I'm going to probably continue to use it for another month or so. But one week should be enough to see some interesting changes. So I'll definitely be sharing it. Yeah.

Yeah. Are you noticing any changes in like sleep duration, like just general energy, like workouts? Have you noticed any subjective symptoms so far from microdosing? Except pooping more, no. Yeah.

Yeah, my sleep is great. Energy is great. My workout recovery has been great before T3. So it's really difficult for me to say, like, I recall when I was using 25 micrograms at once, my heart rate was like harder. Like it was more pronounced. It wasn't necessarily faster, it was just like more pronounced. But now with a smaller dose spread out, like I'm tasting my HRV and heart rate basically every morning and it's

It's good, but it's not like insane. Interesting. Yeah. And when you were testing the 25 micrograms at once, did you have a... Were you also using a lot of... Were you caffeine tolerant back then or not? I was always actually caffeine tolerant, except...

No, I obviously am. I can take like 500 milligrams at two in the afternoon and I sleep fine. I do get a little bit jittery when I take it, but it's not like excessive. I don't get anxious. I just get like some tension and twitching, but not extreme. If there is one particular hormone that you think coffee influences the most, what do you think that hormone would be in the body? Hmm.

That's a good question. I know when people come off of coffee and then they drink coffee, the first four weeks they get a good spike in tea, but then the next four weeks it just goes back to normal. So there's not really a difference between testosterone coffee drinkers and not coffee drinkers. Like, I don't know, like I was thinking about this like

People say you're addicted to caffeine, right? But like I'm drinking yerba mate, which is also a good source of caffeine. It's like I don't wake up in the morning, I need my yerba mate. Like people's like, I need my coffee because coffee is delicious. So I think it's something else than just the caffeine in coffee that makes you feel good. Yeah, yeah. Do you know what's crazy, man? Like I've never had coffee more than like three days in a row in my entire life.

even though I know that caffeine is definitely a super drug for me, like in terms of, it just makes everything better. I can't think of anything that it makes worse. If I'm pairing it with a lot of taurine, like I can't think of anything that doesn't make anything worse for me at all. Like maybe sleep if I take it late, but that's about it. But I would be curious to know, like,

Is it the cortisol? Have you seen the studies where they habituated cortisol adaptation? Are they still getting a cortisol spike from coffee or does it sort of dissipate over time? It definitely is significant blunts. I would say the main thing that increases is going to be norepinephrine. It's just your catecholamines that increases. It's still a stimulant, right? So your cortisol response is not going to be as extreme. You're just going to adapt.

But you're still going to get that increase in metabolic rate. Like I think caffeine is a really amazing compound if you tolerate it well, like it increases your metabolic rate. It can help to increase your testosterone, secundotropic, increases dopamine. It helps with glycogen resynthesis after your workout. It enhances workout capacity. There's a lot of benefits if you tolerate it well.

Do you feel like it makes me wonder, like there's a lot of benefits to it, but it's probably because it's been, it's also been studied like so much. It's like how many studies, like you compare it to like, I mean, creatine has had a lot of studies, right?

But caffeine, I mean, how many? We're talking like probably leading the pack. It's been extensively studied. So that is a good point. But it's almost like creating. It's like just like the tried and trusted. What's that saying thing, right? Like, you know, it works. So a lot of people are like looking for the news 10 minutes. Like, bro, like caffeine works. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's super interesting. Yeah.

Well, yeah, keep us posted with, in the next podcast, we'll go back over maybe some of the vitamin A5 research. But otherwise, yeah, no, that was great chatting. Hans, if my audience wants to connect, book a consult or like chat with you, where can they do so? All right. As per usual, I'm just an ex. Taste for Drop is the place where I hang out if you want to help. Sort and sweet.

Awesome. Awesome. I'll make sure to leave that linked in the podcast, but I think it's time for me to get a big protein meal in because I'm getting catabolic after training legs. All right, man. Go eat it. Good chatting. Good chatting. We'll be in touch. Take care, Hans.

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