Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. There was a time when sunshine brought us back to the brightest days of our youth. When midday picnics reminded us of simpler times and vibrant gardens reflected innocent romance in full bloom. It was a time of remembrance. It was summer, this summer at Biltmore.
For 12 days, Israel and Iran have been at war.
But early on Tuesday morning, it was reported that there was calm between both countries. According to President Trump, the two nations had signed a ceasefire and it was in full effect. Hours later, the president accused both sides of breaking that ceasefire. We basically have two countries that have been fighting so long and so hard that they don't know what the f*** they're doing. At the time of recording this episode, the ceasefire appears to be holding.
Throughout all of this back and forth, Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, is rumored to have been issuing orders from inside a secret bunker. As we wait to see what happens next, we're going to take a closer look at Iran and who's in charge there. I'm William Lee Adams, and this is What in the World from the BBC World Service.
Before we get into this, let's review some of the basic facts. Iran is considered an Islamic republic where religious leaders have significant influence and the politics are shaped by Islamic laws. There's a president and a parliament in Iran, and the country held elections for these last year, but all presidential and parliamentary candidates have to be vetted by religious leaders and appointed bodies. Only about 40% of people voted last year, which was a historic low.
There are no official opposition groups inside Iran where authorities have long cracked down on dissent through executions and imprisonments. And there have been reports that people have been detained and executed in the last few days for their social media posts or suspected spying.
Joining us again is Gonche Habibi Azad from the BBC Persian team. She's been reporting on this. Gonche, hi. Hi. Thank you so much for having me again on the podcast. So we know Iran has a president, Mesud Pazeshkian, and a supreme leader, Ali Khamenei. But who's actually in charge?
Well, the supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, is ultimately in charge. He's the head of the state and he's the highest political leader and religious leader also in Iran. And he has usually the final word on important matters in the country, including economy, foreign policy, politics.
And the president is the head of the government, but he answers to the supreme leader. And it's also different in the way that they're elected. The president, although it's debated on the system that Iranian election works, Iran's president is elected by direct vote of people, while when it comes to supreme leader, it's indirect. He's elected by a very powerful clerical body, which is called the Assembly of Experts.
And the Assembly of Experts, they're elected by people every eight years. And would you say that the president has autonomy or are all of his decisions approved, directed from above from the supreme leader? That's the way it's assumed that it works in Iran, that the president doesn't have the full control and it's supreme leader who has the final word on matters in Iran.
Gonshi, let's just pause for a second for people who don't know. The current supreme leader is only the second in Iran's history. The first supreme leader came to power after the Islamic revolution in 1979, which overthrew a pro-Western monarchy.
The supreme leader controls the powerful Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, that's referred to as the IRGC, and it's been described as an elite military force. It's separate from Iran's regular armed forces, and it was set up specifically to protect and defend the Islamic government. Do we know where he lives? Is there an equivalent to the White House in Washington, D.C., or Number 10 in London?
There is actually. There is a place in Tehran called Beit-e-Rahbari, which is House of the Leader. And it is the place that Khamenei lives in. But there have been some rumors recently that ever since Israel-Iran conflict happened, he has been moved to a secure place, which is not his house in Tehran. But we haven't seen any confirmation by Iran about this yet.
Sometimes on TV, those of us outside of Iran will see these large rallies and people are holding portraits of the Supreme Leader in the air. But then we read that those are highly choreographed. How much support does the Supreme Leader actually have in Iran? So the support of Supreme Leader al-Khamenei, I can call it mixed. He's seen as anti-imperialist leader. He's seen as anti-West leader. And some people in Iran actually don't.
are in line with that view. And he's somehow the embodiment of Iran's Islamic identity. So his supporters, as you see sometimes on the streets, sometimes we cannot say for sure that they are taken by buses or it has been orchestrated that they come to the streets. But at the same time, we have to consider that there have been several protests, especially in recent years,
Green Movement of 2009, Women Life Freedom protests of 2022 that indicate that there is a frustration with the leadership. And it's because of economic challenges, restrictions, social and political restrictions in the country. And just to remind you about these protests, the Green Movement was when people protested against the results of the 2009 presidential election. Those protests lasted for months.
and the Woman Life Freedom protests were sparked after the death of a 22-year-old woman called Masa Amini while she was in police custody. She'd been arrested for allegedly not wearing a hijab correctly. Hundreds died in the protests that followed.
So Gonche, I want to talk about the longstanding tensions between Iran and Israel now and how recently this erupted into full-scale war, missile strikes back and forth. How have the actions of the Supreme Leader been taken by the public in response to Israeli strikes in Iran? Some of the people that I have talked to which are anti-establishment, they are still very much opposed to
Iran's supreme leader and his moves. And I don't think it has kind of, in a sense, changed. But some anti-establishment people were saying that Israel is targeting civilians inside the country. And if this continues, some people are going to switch sides and go to the side of Iranian establishment. And also, we have seen that Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, he called
on Iranians to rise up against establishment, which is not something that has happened during these 12 days of war. Last week, Israel's defense minister made a very explosive comment. He said that Iran's supreme leader should no longer be allowed to exist and that prompted speculation of a potential assassination.
That also prompted questions about who might succeed the Supreme Leader. Do we have any sense of who that might be if he were to pass away or indeed be killed? There are so many speculations about who's going to replace him, although nothing has been officially announced yet. And
There are speculations as well that Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, the IRGC, already has a replacement for him. But these are just mere speculations. Some people say that his son, Mujtaba Khamenei, is going to replace him. But we do not know for sure. What do we know about where the supreme leader is right now? We don't have much information about it, but I'm going to quote...
Mehdi Fazal Ali, who is a member of his office, when he was on national TV yesterday, he did not give a clear response to a question of a presenter who asked him about concerns over the Supreme Leader's health. Fazal Ali said it was very valuable that some people were concerned about his health.
While he said everyone needs to pray and that those responsible for supreme leader's protection are doing their responsibilities, quote, properly, unquote. And this and the clip going viral of Fazal Ali on state TV has led to some speculations that his health is declining. Gonca Habibi Azad from BBC Persian, thanks for being with us. Thank you so much.
That's all for today. If you want to learn more about the background and the stakes of the Iran-Israel conflict, we have several episodes in our back catalogue. They include What Do We Know About Iran's Nuclear Capabilities? and Iran, What You Need to Know. You can search for those wherever you get your BBC podcasts. I'm William Lee Adams, and this is What In The World from the BBC World Service. We'll see you again soon.