#22 美国社交电商爆火，买家过亿，中国品牌弯道超车的机会来了？对话Pear创始人Brad
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The core of a new social media business should not be focused on products, but content and people. Social media in Europe and the United States, its advertising is a more profitable project. That is to say, it has such a position that it is actually a loss to give to e-commerce. So they do e-commerce naturally will not be successful.

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We should not only welcome the user, but also respect him. Not just because he is a parent in the business, but because he is our driving force, he is our best helper to improve. I discussed this with Xiaolong before. Zhang Xiaolong said that in the end, we did a lot of things, including the change and extension of the interface. So AI has a big change, which is the interface.

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Welcome to "Compare the Sea" with Jay. Hello, I'm Jay. Hello, I'm Jia Rui. Today's topic is about American social e-commerce and China's "Compare the Sea" growth, localization, entrepreneurship, and investment.

Since the birth of the last century, e-commerce has now become a global industry with a value of more than $60 billion. According to Statista's prediction, the global second largest e-commerce market, the US, will also reach $138.2 billion in revenue in 2025. Although it is a large scale,

But e-commerce is still an immature industry. As consumers acquire information and interact with it, e-commerce is constantly evolving. Last time, the major change occurred more than a decade ago. As the spread of smartphones, more and more transactions are transferred to mobile devices. Data shows that more than three-fourths of e-commerce website traffic and two-thirds of transactions are made through mobile devices. The next major change is actually happening, and this time it's moving to social media.

Statista predicts that by 2028, the total amount of US social media trading will be close to $15 billion, almost twice as much as in 2024. At the same time, according to eMarketer data, the number of buyers of social media in the United States for the first time in 2024 has broken 100 million. And it will continue to grow rapidly in the next few years. In fact, when it comes to social media, a former guest of ours, MK, said, "We've seen this episode.

Right? Because China is the pioneer and leader of global social e-commerce. For example, Tiktok officially started in 2020. In a few years, it has subverted the original e-commerce market pattern. According to high-end data, during June 18, 2024, the market share of Tiktok e-commerce has broken 15% of China's overall e-commerce market, far over the previous percentage.

Even in the US, direct marketing to complete the purchase is also attractive. Who would like to be on TikTok, Facebook, or Instagram to brush their teeth or be recommended by their favorite influencer for a cool product, but still jump out of social media and search for this brand's website on Google to find this product and finally complete the purchase? In fact, not many people like to do this. In fact, social media is becoming Google.

According to the IMF survey, 50% of Internet users aged 16 to 24 prefer to search for brands on social media. 97% of the Z generation seek shopping inspiration through social media. If the outbreak of the American social e-commerce market is a definite trend, more and more brand merchants will attract a new wave of growth and popularity by individualizing, social recommending, and incorporating entertainment into shopping. So focusing on social e-commerce platforms will theoretically have more room for imagination.

Today we have a guest who is currently focused on the first-ever technology platform in the American social e-commerce market. Payer's CEO Brad Ball asked us to talk about the topic of American social e-commerce. Brad's past experience is very important, even if it is in the valley.

He is the co-founder and chairman of Lime, the largest share-based brand in Europe and the United States. The business covers more than 30 countries and hundreds of cities around the world. Lime was once the fastest-growing company in the history of shares and value growth. The total financing amount is about $1.5 billion, and the public highest valuation is more than $2.4 billion.

Before Lime, Brad had co-founded Kingzone Capital, a tech company that mainly invests in China and the US. Before that, Brad worked at Tencent for 8 years. As the first overseas member of Tencent, he founded a US branch company.

Thank you, Jay. Thank you, Jerry, for inviting me to join the show. One of the reasons I joined is to advertise for PAIR and to hope to have more partners. Another reason is that

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I was a student in Wuhan, graduated from Wuhan University, and then started my own business in Beijing. In 2003, China was still in a stage of a state of "non-emergency" due to the love of consumer Internet. I joined a small company called Tencent, and I built Tencent into an international company. That was my vision and mission.

I've been working for eight years and I've also helped Tencent to do product localization, recruitment of talents, and a lot of investment. One of the most important things is that we have been focusing on and researching the two engines of China-US innovation since then. There is a big difference between the two engines. Which one is more advanced in China and which one is faster in China?

They have a lot of differences and a lot of interdependence. This also brings a lot of investment opportunities for Tencent. If there is an opportunity, we can share some cases to give everyone a reference. On the other hand, it also gave me a lot of inspiration. This inspiration is about why these differences will occur, why there will be such a result. It also brings some opportunities, right? After that, including the creation of Kunzong Capital, we also hope to create a relationship

各种各样的创新 以及它的差异罢例 去看出一些未来的趋势 包括说帮助我们的背头企业 去更深度的了解 前沿的一些创新和科技 这个也后来也导致了说 我们去创办 LIME 我和 Toby 和 Adam 三个人创办了 LIME 其实中间也有很多 比如说中国的共享自行车大战 它有成功也有失败 就很多创业都不是完全的成功 或者完全的失败 对吧 有很多的值得借鉴的地方

We also applied some of the successful elements to the European and American market. At the same time, we also integrated the characteristics of the European and American market to change the shape and operation of our products. This brings us to the next topic that we will talk about more today, which is PAIR. What is PAIR doing? We hope to help the D2C brand in the overseas market to be able to make a profit in the American market. The opportunity to make a profit has been mentioned just now, right? It's on social media.

Right.

The two biggest features that we see on this platform are that the content is not shared by the product, but the content, the use of the scene, the media, and the knowledge or trust of the person. This brings us to the core of new social e-commerce, which should not be centered on products.

而是应该以内容和人为中心。 那第二点呢是说因为有了人和这个社交的一个天生的属性, 它这个交易的结构就不应该再是这个叫 B2C 吧, 就是一层的结构, 比如说某个品牌卖给消费者, 它因为是等于叫 B2I2C 对吧, 你叫 BIC,是 business, 一个品牌和某个红人是无论合作的方法是媒体还是分享还是推荐, 对吧,还是背书。

B2I2C is the most reasonable and effective structure. It will also bring more trust to build new brands. With this structure, the whole technical price and trading method of classic e-commerce 1.0 does not meet the characteristics of social e-commerce. So we established PAIR to provide you with tools and some best practices in the market to help you have a chance to make a fortune in the market.

Let's start with the source of PIE. PIE is a technology platform for social e-commerce, and it serves DTC brands in the US market. The main features are customized landing pages and shortening conversion chains to improve ad conversion rates for brands, and to build their own private traffic, celebrity marketing management system to help brands achieve performance growth.

I understand that you said you don't touch B2B, e-commerce and advertising. Now, Payer is related to all three of them. Can you share your experiences with the past successful entrepreneurs and investors? You said you don't touch B2B, e-commerce and advertising. Why did you choose Payer? What opportunities have you seen?

因为没有那么喜欢,因为对于消费者消费互联网吧,

Right.

第二是说电商这个行业的链路和各方面是非常实际和非常有价值的一个事情。 对我而言,我的背景实际上是更多的是在社交,在游戏,在 application 或者是这一类的方面。 就是说从经验而言,从背景而言是更适合你走的一条路。

同时我自己也觉得说 技术的迭代和产品不停的 这种根据用户的数据更新 是一件非常令人有满足感的事情 对吧 你天天看到自己产品的提升 看到数据的提升 反映出来是用户对产品的喜爱 和用户对公司价值的认可 第三个是广告 说个题外话 Lime 从第一天开始就没有广告的团

没有 marketing 团队,我们是,这也算是一个 force function,是让团队知道说,最终我们公司这个成与败都是基于一件事情,就是我们是不是给用户提供价值,如果有提供真正好的价值,真正帮他解决了痛点,这个产品本身就是最好的 marketing,这个也受到以前腾讯啊,包括一些我们合作公司的影响,就腾讯基本上是不做广告的。

Tencent is the winner of products, right? WeChat, you guys basically didn't say that I watched WeChat ads and downloaded WeChat, right? So it's the value of product, understanding of people and users. This is what I hope any company, including my own company, is to make it a core value. Then back to this side, what we do is called BIC.

B2I2C, the final user, is still the consumer. This is why I'm doing this. In Europe and the US, the most painful people in the social media industry, of course, the business is also painful. In fact, consumers are very painful. They clearly see that the products that I like, the products that the celebrities or the adults recommend are very good, but they can't buy them directly. In fact, this is a very painful thing. So our starting point starts from here.

但这个衍生过来是说因为产品本身也得要好 对吧 红人如果卖假货卖插货这个事情第一不可持续 第二我觉得是有一定的不道德的 所以我们最后会碰到说 OK 如果让用户能有最好的体验

能买到很好的产品,而且是相对优惠的价格,又是在信任的红人或者大人手里购买,对吧? 那我们就必须要服务好和合作好好的品牌,就变成了,又碰到了 B2B 了。 那碰到了 B2B 以后呢,这里面就涉及到说,那这个链路如果要让它有很高的效率,而且能达到我们希望能做到的这种用户的体验和价值的提升,它就得做电商的全链条。

而不只是一个简单的 marketing gimmick 或者是一个小插件 那就变成就做到了说 我们要做整个点上的全链条 这个在推演的下一步是说 D2C 品牌在社交媒体上 触达用户的方式和渠道是什么呢 其实只有两个 一个是红人分享 目前在欧美还不是主流 第二个是广告

If we want to give the best experience to the user, so that he can find and buy directly from the person he trusts in the best way, find and buy products he likes in a better price and in a more enjoyable way, we must do B2B, we must do e-commerce. At the same time, because of this reason, we must support its biggest source of traffic in the process of cooperation with the brand.

and it's the biggest cost. If we ask any D2C brand, about one-third to half of the cost is advertising. On this, we can help it solve some existing problems and provide more value for its quantity. The core point, in fact, the end point of what I'm doing is still to return to how many consumers can get the final value. If they are happy and satisfied, our cooperating brands will also get the sales they should get.

其实是想做 2C,为了做 2C,然后被迫的一步一步走到了 B2B 电商和广告。 对,我也不觉得是被迫,我觉得它是一个自然的一个推演吧。 很多事情都是这样的,对吧? 就我自己对自己的,不能算成功吧,就对自己这个是否有一定的贡献的 measurement, 是有多少的数量的人我能帮助他的生活变得更好。

Right? Lime is also like this. When we were in Tencent, we did a lot of things. In fact, it's not about how much money we want to make for each user. 90%, maybe 95% of users are not paid. But these people's lives become better because of our existence. So social media is also the reason. Back to the question just now, if I see what opportunity I have, I think this is a possibility to greatly improve the quality of life of a large number of users.

社交是一个应该说大家生活的一部分 对吧 那电商呢一直以来是 其实我个人觉得有一点反人性 就说以前购物小时候 比如说去逛商场 其实是一个非常社交 非常互动 非常有温暖的事情 而且非常新奇 对吧 妈妈带我们去逛商场 那是很新鲜的各种各样的东西 然后还可以聊 还可以说这好不好 那个好不好 然后电商呢其实割断了这一切

变成了一个非常孤独的事儿。 哪怕是双十一, 你也是一个人拿着个手机在那死命刷,对吧? 那社交电商其实带来一个机会是说, 能不能把这个互动, 把这个社区感,归属感以及温暖感, 带来一个很重要的机会,

Right.

对,因为我是在做 2B,过去十年我一直在做 2B,然后前面这包括 Brad 的介绍,其实在前面的十几年,几十年,Brad 基本都在做 2C,2B 和 2C 其实我觉得有很大不一样的地方,2C 呢,其实它需要洞察,我经常说,

一个非常聪明的人他才能做 2C, 他有非常强的洞察力。 那 2B 其实就是踏踏实实, 老老实实做一个事儿, 然后综合能力拼的是一个组织和踏实。 那 2C 我认为他很快就会有一个很好的爆发。

But all 2B companies are hard to say that they have a 10-fold outbreak every year. Including 2C, it's actually about growth. 2B is about sales. So according to what you just mentioned, the past experience to today, step by step to now, does this have any challenges for you? Or your own new feelings from C to B?

There are many. The most interesting thing about entrepreneurship is not that it's a cheap car, but that it has new challenges. Otherwise, what would you do? Because we can see that some problems have not been solved. Because we can see that some places can bring value. But why haven't they been solved yet? There must be many difficulties. Otherwise, they would have been solved long ago. But I think I am a entrepreneur myself. This is what I enjoy the most. I can see the problem and find a way to solve it.

I have a lot of food friends, one of them is a mentor, and it's quite interesting. If you just do a small business, you will calculate the probability. Is this 51% possible? It may be worth doing. 80% is a very stable thing to do. When starting a business, it's not the probability, it's the possibility. Even if it's 1%, if this is worth doing, then try it over and over again. Even if it's 1% probability, right?

嗯。

这个产品能不能帮助一个 business 去洞察它的消费者?

This is something we can do. For example, many B2Bs are not shown in the consumer side, but we actually do the landing page, the private branch of the red market, and these things. We have to help them experience the consumer side to the fullest. For each B2C brand, the C-side is actually the hardest for them.

反而他们有很多很好的广告投手,创意做的比我们都好,对吧? Logistics 怎么弄啊,定价怎么弄啊,promotion 怎么搞啊,这些东西他们已经是专家了。 但是各位可以看一下说各种各样的公司的这种网站啊什么,就是真正跟用户在社交上怎么互动,怎么样子能最好的展示他的品牌和特性,怎么样让他买单的时候顺利顺畅,非常丝滑,这些其实是我。

嗯

Let's go back to the product of PAIR. To further understand PAIR, we can compare it with Shopify. Businessmen who are out of the sea and globalized should be familiar with Shopify. Shopify is a software service provider for brands and sellers to provide e-commerce platforms and ecosystem. It allows businessmen to complete sales independently online. The independent stations we often talk about in China are actually established through Shopify.

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Shopify and Facebook and Instagram. Shopify and Facebook and Instagram.

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and Shopify's core difference? How to compete in a differentiated way? Yes, I think this is a good question. Sometimes, it may not be understood by all the audience at once. So I hope to make it easier for everyone to understand. At least that's our vision.

The first point is that we can look at some facts. We have just seen the development and difference between China and the United States. Some of them may be legal and legal, or cultural bias. But for the most part, it eventually returns to economic law. Consumers are the same. Consumers may be able to lie to you for a short time, but they are very smart for a long time. Businesses are the same. Is there an independent station in China? Yes. How many independent stations do e-commerce orders in China? I asked many industry people, the number is basically zero.

基本为零,美国基本是百分之百。 这个差异就大到了说我们一定要放一个非常大的问号,是为什么? 是中国人就不喜欢独立战呢,还是老美就喜欢独立战? 是社交电商因为在中国发展得更快迭代到了这一步呢? 还是说美国缺乏了一个基础建设,其实没有别的选择? 比方说在美国我们说要社交电商闭环,

对吧? 假设说你在 YouTube 上闭环, 怎么闭环呢? 好像没有办法闭环。 我们就看一下现象, 对吧? 这个也演示出了一个说, 为什么中国的 DQC 品牌有可能可以玩到超车, 就是因为各位在国内其实已经把这套玩得很熟了, 对吧? 社交闭环怎么弄呢? 内容营销怎么弄呢?

这个裂变怎么弄的, 传播怎么弄的, 这一系列的这个玩法。 如果到了美国, 跟美国的本土团队去拼独立战, 拼广告创意, 拼谁买广告买得好, 谁的文案写得好, 我觉得这个是要以短薄长, 对吧? 这好像不是那么 efficient 的一件事情, 好像也不太会成功, 但是如果是以新的这些玩法呀,

这个社交电商真正能做到闭环的这个方式 在美国可能会是最好的一个机会 包括私域 美国现在私域变现的基本较零 但这个市场和这个趋势和这个经济的模型和规律在不在 一定在 那缺少了什么呢 缺少很多东西 这个一个事情到这么大的规模 一定不是一个人一己之力能够做成的 但

We will do the technical infrastructure part. In China, we can use small programs, public number, cloud, and fast forward. These are tools that everyone has to achieve these things. There is none in the United States. Simply put, it's more like a small program across platforms between social media in the United States. Then help to add yellow cars to every media worth sharing and worth consuming, whether it's video or blog.

This is what we are doing, because it doesn't exist at the moment. Back to Shopify, I hope you don't misunderstand, but we don't really look at what Shopify is doing. If you ask Lime's former colleagues, they will know that I often tell them that we are innovating and we are driving forward. When you drive, you can't look at the rearview mirror.

一定是往前看 一定是看说哪里有需求 哪里有短板 对吧 而不是说我们看着观后镜说 好像对手又追上来了 好像他在做这个 我们要做这个 他在做那个 我们要去应对 那个开车一定会开翻车的 所以我们其实没有那么关注 Shopify 那个

Its market share is certainly not only 28. I think it should be much higher than this. If you look at it from the perspective of the number of people, but like what I just said, we see more of the market and users' and the customers' pain points. The first one I just mentioned is the single-layer structure. Why is the single-layer structure not rising in the US? Because it's not part of the transaction.

商家能卖给用户,然后达人在旁边只能摇旗呐喊,搞得好数据准,分点钱,数据不准的时候他也不知道。 今天就你问一个达人说你到底带了多少货,有多少人来了,卖掉了多少,你的 commission 是多少,他就不知道。 这个事情是不可能成功的,对吧?这是一个。 第二个就是说 Shopify 整个的技术架构我觉得是无法适应的,不管它有多少的集成到什么 YouTube, Facebook, 什么。

It's a product-centered structure. This structure basically violates the principle of social nature. Let's take an example. If I send a product link to you, the first response I get is, are you wrong? Or is your account blackened? Because it's not content, it's a product.

No one will share their products on social media. It must be packed in content or media or videos or blog. That's right. That's a jump. And it's a one-to-one. One-to-one means, for example, today, Jay shared that my glasses go with clothes. Right? Then you have to click two links to two websites, register two accounts to buy these two things. Then find it back. Maybe I can't find it back.

These are all anti-human. These are all experiences that harm users. No matter what he does, his basic structure and his foundation settings will not be able to adapt to social media. This is one of the big differences in our core. Of course, this may not be the same on the surface. The first expression is that advertising brings a higher rate of conversion. The second is that the red people will have a sense of ownership.

Because it became his store. It's rare to see it online. For example, Lao Luo's store is unlikely to be a place where you can jump from the store to another place to buy. Lao Luo turned around and said, "I don't know how many people went there. I don't know how much I bought. I have to find a manufacturer to send me a screenshot."

Right.

Right.

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and we use the interface we get from their open platform to create a unified user ID. This solves the problem of the unification of different e-commerce platform IDs. So the core difference between Pyre and Shopify is that it takes China's social e-commerce and the best small-scale programs to the US. So it's similar to the small e-commerce programs in the US. Is that right?

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TikTok has become a hot topic. In the US, it accounts for 12% of the entire social media traffic. There are also more suitable brands like Instagram and Facebook. There are some suitable for 3C YouTube. Reddit is more suitable for

mother-child fashion Pinterest, right? And then there are all kinds of communities. So in this, in addition to the part I just mentioned, there is also a great effect on users. For example, as an answerer, there is rarely a single platform answerer.

He usually posts on Instagram, Twitter, etc. At this time, for him, do you think he will register 9 accounts to manage or register 1 account to manage all his later cooperation, distribution, and inventory? Including all the things. This is still the same for brands. I haven't seen a brand that says I will do Instagram and leave the rest to me. So you will see that it has a network structure. There are thousands of brands here.

每个品牌要做 9 到 10 个不同的平台 这边有几万个几十万个的红人 这几十万红人又要再乘个 9 所以我们是在做另外的一个 mapping 这个 mapping 就是不是它的社交的网络 而是在社交之上的电商的这个网络 这网络谁跟谁合作 那谁愿意 follow 谁去购买 这是另外的一层的这个网络

但这个会给商家带来什么好处呢?效率。 就我们可以想象是不光商家之间可以互推, 对于红人而言,这个红人的触达, 对吧,这个合作的这种流畅性, 然后包括用户,用户可能已经有账号了, 什么都不用填,就直接 yes,就完成了。 其实我理解刚才讲到说微信小程序, 其实做的更多的是基于所有社交媒体在海外, 所有社交媒体上面的又做了一层整个 ID 的打通。

Because it's not a common social media in China. Yes, you can think of it that way. It's like LinkedIn. Why do we have LinkedIn after so many social media platforms? Because it's a different mapping. This mapping is not about who is a good friend and who has a job. What we're mapping is a business mapping. Who cooperates with whom and who buys from whom.

Right? Who has the influence of this business? Of course, this is a follow-up. So at the beginning, our more involved points are still those two points. That is to say, the first one is to help social media ads to be able to greatly increase the turnover rate. The second part is to say how they cooperate with the popular people, how they cooperate with them smoothly and smoothly, and all the automation behind the scenes.

其实从这个简上来说, 更多的也承载了把中国最优秀的运营基因出海的一个理念。 对,我希望是, 我觉得国内比方说有非常好的投流手, 但可能说好的意思也就跟欧美的一流的投流手可能持平, 对吧? 这个应该不算过分的一个说法, 但是国内的在内容 marketing 这个方面的人, 在欧美可能会所向披靡, 因为美国我们现在就见不到, 因为 shopify 不能动, 所以就缺乏了这一批人,

就没有一个产业或者一批专业人士说我是做落地业的。 国内是一个人说我是做 marketing 的, 一定是说两件事,我会投流,我还会做落地业。 很少是说我不会做落地业,不知道在干嘛的, 这种是很少见的,因为这个是一个产业培训和培养出来的。

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Because my company was selected by YC in 2019. When I was at YC demo day, I saw a startup of an American female entrepreneur. When I pitched her, I said there was a company in China, and I said a lot. Then I said this company is going to be Pinduoduo. We are going to do the American version of Pinduoduo. That was in 2019. But that company is dead now. Many companies in YC are dead. But in fact, only Chinese people can bring out this excellent, very short overall operating system.

我觉得可能不光是说是不是做事更努力, 这肯定是一方面咱中国人的美德, 对吧? 但是其实是对这个行业的理解和是说有一点高伟大地位了。 我举个例子, 在腾讯的时候, 国内叫多人在线游戏, 那是韩国发明的,

Free game

这个

剩下 10%的人是愿意付很多钱的,也收不到。 多人在线游戏是 90%的人贡献他的时间, 10%的人会付以前的超过 10 倍的价钱。 但是他开始的时候要怎么做呢? 要靠人去运营,运营能力。 这是一个商业模式,有人运营,有人陪玩, 有人去做这个事情。 完了以后,下面就没一个人听得懂, 都觉得我们是可能脑子进水了, 说这是什么呀?

对吧? 就为什么会做这种事情? 好傻呀! 然后有一个著名的欧美游戏公司 CEO, 当时的 CEO, 这个名字这个就不说了, 还挺有名的。 然后就跟我说, 我们是 big company, make big games, sell for big dollars. Your company is so cheap, no wonder it's called 10 cent, 十分钱。 因为我们道具可能就说一块钱人民币吧,对吧?

这是真正的事儿。 然后几年以后呢,又碰到那 CEO, 他说啊,这个 online game 啊, 这个太牛逼了,这个什么什么什么。 然后说我们应该买你们, 你知道,说我们应该收购你们。 然后旁边的他的副总裁呢, 就提现他说, 哎,他们市值是我们十倍。 从傲慢到敬畏。

China

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Yes, indeed. Now let's talk about the function of Pair. If you go to Pair's official website, you can see a line of big words, which are called "Driving performance growth with popular ads". Below is a line of small words, which are called "Getting more than 110% sales from our self-adapted landing page". Now, with the high flow cost and the fierce competition of brands,

to increase sales by more than a third. It's almost unimaginable. And you just put it on the official website. I don't know if there's any secret in it. Please, Brad, based on this American social e-commerce, I actually mentioned some basic facilities and general shopping transition routes. We can talk about how Pyle can help brands increase sales by more than 110% by optimizing the landing page.

First of all, I need to say that any product is generally not universal, especially in such a complex and complex industry. It means that PEER does not necessarily apply to all products. For example, I sometimes go with the team to give this example, which may not be a standard. For example, toilet paper, whether you use PEER or not, there is no difference.

Where will pair be used? It is said that it is based on content marketing and transmission. For example, the first type is called new flagships. It's hard to see it just by looking at a product, right? This is the first type. The second type is that it needs to have knowledge and understanding. It needs to have knowledge, explanation, and trust, right? The third type is to buy in a hurry. These three types of products are more suitable for pair.

We also have partners that only increased by 20% or 30%, right? But in fact, we also have a lot of partners that increased by 700%. But in the end, we told them that we have a partner that increased by 300%. And then basically the feedback was that I don't believe you are a liar, right? So we actually put it down. Don't say it's too high. If you say it's too high, you don't believe it, right? So is it based on these? For those business owners,

It's still the same as before, right? Anything, even if it's a drug, the effect of each disease may not be the same. The more information is needed, the more trust people need, the more explanations and targeting is needed, the more help we will get. The reason is actually very simple. It's actually to match the content. This is a very critical thing. No product, no matter how exquisite it is, it cannot match all the content.

You have a product industry, you have 100 videos out there. The final transfer rate of this product industry is only possible to be average, it is not possible to be oil-based. This is one reason. The second reason is to bring in these celebrities. These 100 videos represent 100 celebrities. Bring their trust in. Why do you buy old Luo's post? This is because there is a celebrity's trust in it.

instead of a landing page. But can the landing page say that I put 500 celebrities here and you can pick which one you believe in? This product form is wrong. It's impossible. The third reason is that each product has many characteristics. Its selling point and its value targeting are different. But as a single product, it is impossible to do this.

For example, we have a partner who sells yoga pants. It's for young people. For middle-aged people, it's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the elderly. It's for the

Right? The sales function and the special effects are all different. If you put all three of them on the product page, no one will buy them. So they can only put one. They put the one that young people exercise very well. Right? But if the advertisement is about how to recover after the loss, and it talks about how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to recover, and it says how to

I'm so angry. That's right. So this is accurate targeting, right? This is another reason. The last point I think is the most interesting. That is, the technology we put in is that we will track every user in every post. Then, based on these data, it will be played back to see where it is stuck, to see where it is more attractive to it, and then it keeps changing.

The Shopify product industry, if you are interested, you can ask how many times to move once. Usually, it may not be moved once in half a year. We are moving in real time. Today's ads or popular sharing, it's wrong to look at the three purchase buttons until the third one is clicked, right? Then we will adjust the position. Which content do you see more? Some of them we see that they are pulled all the way to the end, just to see the ingredient table. Then we put the ingredient table on top of you, right? These are all things that our technology can achieve. But this point I think is very important. It's hard to say

Shopify actually has a lot of things that are solidified. You can't move the price. You can't move the format, right?

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对,没错。 Jay 说的一点很重要,我认为很重要,就是说以前的流量是 non-differentiate,最早就是电商开始的时候大家所谓的流量是什么呢? 是什么网易的头版头条上那个广告条,对吧? Yahoo 的那个广告条。

I don't know who you are, I don't know what. So what is the best experience at this time? For users, what is the best experience for users? After you come, I will give you a search bar. Then I have a million products behind me. I will give you whatever you search for. This is the classic 1.0. I am a big salesman. You come, you already know what you want to buy. You search by t-shirt. I will give you all the white t-shirts. You choose by yourself. So it's more of a trading experience. Social is the opposite.

First, we often say that you don't know you need it yet. You don't know that you need a white T-shirt on a social platform. You just found out that this white T-shirt is really good and you want to buy it. At this time, it's not like I'll give you another 200 white T-shirts to choose from. So the best experience is not to give you a search bar, search bar, and then give you the biggest catalog. Instead, you like the white T-shirt, you believe in the celebrity, you should buy it directly.

而不是我再给你 200 个白 T 恤选一选。 所以整个逻辑就是不一样的。 那这就带来了是说还有什么呢? 因为这个原因它不是一个 universal 的流量, 而是带属性的。 从 J 来的人,对吧? 和从 Bred 那来的人, 他肯定是不一样的,肯定带属性的。 那为什么这个落地业要一样呢? 为什么这个成交业是要一样的? 这肯定不应该一样。

Let's talk about the needs and productization of Pair. Pair provides software services and early ground support to brand customers. Yes, Pair actually has a lot of ground support in the early stage. Just like we talked about a topic in the last episode, that is, from the perspective of Chinese sellers and brand owners,

Although the core demand is simply to ship the product, there are various paths between the product and the consumer. At the same time, the core capabilities of different brands, organizations, and cultures are not the same. So, it is possible that there will be a need for five or eight doors on a specific landing site. From the perspective of product design,

The KISS principle, right? Keep it simple, stupid. Or less is more, less is more principle. Because especially for new products, the more complicated the function, the higher the threshold of the user, the more difficult it is to develop and the cost is higher. From the perspective of basic software, the Pyre function is relatively simple at present. The main thing is to optimize the advertising field,

and the management of celebrity marketing, as well as tracking and managing relevant data. Behind this, I believe we must have gone through a process called "receiving". So I want to ask Brad to share from the perspective of customer demand and product design and productization. Brand business needs are very complex. Why choose to cut in from advertising landing page and celebrity marketing management and how to simplify these needs to achieve productization?

Yes, I think this is a very worth-telling topic. We can talk about it for a day, from various perspectives. We will only talk about two pairs. There are the take and the leave. Having your own focus is very important for any startup company. My other mentor once said,

没有公司是因为专注而死的。 一般都是死的不专注或者别的原因,对吧? 就没有一个公司说因为我太专注了, 所以公司挂了,就不存在,没有这个事情。 我们也得放弃很多, 有很多事情看起来非常好啊, 但我们也要有取舍。 那我们 follow 的这个逻辑呢, 是说对于我们的品牌合作伙伴, 对它的价值什么最大, 它痛点连累最多。 同时呢,我们也会看的是说对用户,

但是我们带不带来价值 还是说我们在已有的饼里 另外挖一块 对吧 这个事情可以做 这个不错的生意呢 我们没兴趣 就我们要给它带来全新的体验 而这个体验是要比原来更好的 有个说法你要十倍的好 对吧 那对于用户而言 就是说跳转到十个网站 去买十样东西 或者说你在一个铁上 直接给把十个都勾完了 然后就把十个都勾完了

But it is indeed ten times better Including for the popular people He can see his users now See his data At the same time, I am helping you to sell Take my commission Instead of selling my users to you I think this is more than ten times better Right? Today, the answer is to sell users in Europe and America. Just go there when you click Then it has nothing to do with me So these are our focus We want to solve the biggest problem But there are still many things inside You can do the live video better Our team is very skilled

My CTO is a very good technical expert, Xu Hui. He used to be Coupang's CTO VP. He has been taking over from about 50 people to the market. And then before that, when Pinterest had 20 people, it was also the angel VP of Edge all the way to the market. Can you do it? Yes, we can do it. It's not what we want to do. And then, for example, storage management is also very important for e-commerce, right? Including even some of the optimization of shipping labels, this and that.

无数无数的事情可以做,但我们会专注的是说我们在哪个方面解决最大的痛点, 带来最大的提升,而且这是我们有一定的优势去做的, 就刚才说的那些呢,都是也是一个认知差,对吧,就欧美团队还没有完全体验过什么叫 社交上的电商闭环和他的这个交易的丝滑,以及说多级的帮卖这种体系, 其实是我们有优势的,那像刚才说的那个呢,就我们放弃了很多,

但我们也会专注于我们该做的事 那为什么是选择产品落地业和红人分销呢 其实有两个层面 第一个层面说做广告落地业 这不是我们发现的 是我们合作伙伴发现的 我们是跟他讲说我们有这些能力 我们可以让你的每一个铁 这些东西都可以变成可购买的 这个在欧美就是个新事 对吧 你没见过一个博客说直接就能买了

They all jumped. They said, "It's actually good for product logic." So they started to do it themselves. We help them to continuously optimize. But when you think about it, this is a very natural result. What is the reason? Whether it's D2CA or other brands, first, it needs to reach users. This way, it is possible to establish a brand and products will be discovered. This is the first way. There are actually two ways to reach users. One is advertising, the other is sharing with people. There is not even the third one.

These are the two core things. If we can optimize and improve these two core chains, it will be of great value to them. The second reason is that after this, the user section, if the user section cannot convert, the meaning of the payment is actually very big, even zero. So we will make this very solid, and then we will have a very new experience of technology and products for everyone.

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Before the official launch of Payal, the product development and delivery time has been three years. When I first heard about this process, I felt very unruly. Especially Brad, you are the joint founder of Lime. Lime was over $11 million when it was founded in a year and a half. Then it became one of the fastest single-seller companies in the United States at that time. For two years, the business covered more than 100 markets in more than 20 countries.

Of course, LAM2C and Payer2B, especially Payer, are the basic software of American social media. We mentioned Shopify earlier, which was also established in 2006. It only broke out in 2019, 13 years later. The stock price has been growing nearly 200% for two consecutive years.

Because social media is relatively new in the US and needs to be based on multiple social media platforms, and Pyle has also cut off the link between red-man trading and branching. The whole system construction must be very difficult. Please look back with us. What is the most challenging part of Pyle's construction?

Hockey stick.

I think the European and American markets are at this stage. Even if, as I said a year ago, social media companies, popular goods, and convention-based businesses, everyone thinks it's a nightclub, right? But who started this thing? It's TikTok. TikTok suddenly taught a batch of brands and celebrities that this is better than advertising.

Right? Before, if you make one, it's 200 yuan. And you can't see the data. So TikTok has educated a part of the market. But I think our vision is to have a relatively large success. In fact, it needs to have a wide acceptance. The domestic market has actually gone through this stage. Including the red-collar goods, group purchases, from the beginning of some small fights and small troubles to the beginning of the big mother's intervention. Right?

Right.

So I think this is a process of market education. Currently, we are also helping to educate the market, but it is impossible for us to move the whole market at once. There must be a training process, including professional training institutions, right? How to write this iron, how to use this chemical, right? Which points must be explained? It's not a lie. These professional skills of business are currently available in Europe and the United States.

This is one aspect. On the other hand, because we want to achieve the effect we want, we actually did a lot of things that should be called correct but difficult. I think it's correct. This has to wait for the market to test. Most startup companies are giving the system subsidies because they want money. Right? Give Shopify subsidies. Shopify, I remember, has a few thousand different types of subsidies. It's easy to make some money.

别的系统里也都是有这样的,就赚快钱。 我们没有从那个角度去看, 也没有定一个时间说我们必须要多少时间, 就做完多少时间去发布。 更多是看说我们刚才谈到的用户的体验应该是怎么样的, 红人的体验应该怎么样的。 假设说我用消费法已经把红人的体验可以做到非常好, 非常丝滑,怎么样要样品,怎么样去分享, 怎么样结算,怎么样能看到第一方数据, 那这事我不就不干了,就没必要干了。

But in the absence of it, we found that it was not possible to make a pudding in the Shopify system, but to start over. So it is very difficult for the e-commerce structure to start over. Because it involves money, logistics, and various confidential information. It involves efficiency, and it involves the synchronization of ERP. It involves payment in all aspects. It takes a lot of time to start over.

and it has to be very stable. Our team often says that we may not lose much in one day, but for our partners, this number may be a very large number. Because it will lose its revenue and brand tenfold, right? This is one aspect. The second aspect is more interesting. What I just said about signing people. That thing is usually very difficult. This may be too technical. But for example, you have ten cups in the warehouse. You put it on an independent station today.

其实只有一条 entry, 这个 entry 是说我有杯子蓝色十个十块钱, 对吧? 这是一条整个的 entry, 但如果是千人签面的时候就不是了, 千人签面的时候说你的杯子你要卖九块, 他的杯子是卖十一块, 这个人杯子是八块钱, 但加两块钱运费, 那个人是说我卖十五块钱, 但是我给你打五折, 然后还要同步到同一个 inventory 里面。

Shopify can't do it because it only has one entry. You say 10 yuan, it's 10 yuan. You can't have other prices or instructions or instructions or something. We have to do, for example, reality. Is there a private sale? All kinds of these functions will take a lot of time. But we are also in the process of taking care of it. The first year is the most basic architecture. How to pay, how to make orders, how to do QFON, right? So our first year was to cooperate with local business. Can't do e-commerce. At that time, e-commerce would be more complicated.

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and move the offline to online. Then it becomes, how to settle online besides this? How to do shipping? How to do the explanation? After finishing this, we say, OK, except WeChat, we will join the brand. Because the demand for brands will be higher. So it's like this, step by step. It's almost a year stage.

We talked about the potential risks. For example, before September 2023, TikTok and Shopify had a half-billed model. The business can put the shop's window in the main page of the video content or the shop's product link in the shop's window. After the user clicks on it, it can jump directly to the main page and then make a deal.

From September 12, 2023, TikTok officially closed the mode of split-bidding. Businessmen can no longer jump to Shopify's exclusive war. So TikTok Shop is currently self-bidding. Users' browsing, shopping, and payment on TikTok Shop are all completed within TikTok. This is a bit like domestic TikTok. TikTok e-commerce was also jumping to Taobao at the beginning. Later, self-sale e-commerce began to complete the closed loop.

Of course, other social media such as Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, YouTube, etc. are relatively open at present. In the past 10 years, these platforms have actually made efforts and made mistakes in terms of social media. For example, I tried Instagram before. Although it doesn't work well,

But it is almost certain that these platforms have noticed the opportunity of social e-commerce. On the other hand, because you have the background of an investor and a mature entrepreneur, you have a lot of success in building a win-win situation. For example, Lime is very good at introducing strategic resources through financing. You once said that Lime's financing idea is to breathe the air in the room. At least get more support from ideal AC than the limited edition. For example, A16Z has rarely joined forces with you

Lime was the third. Google Ventures and its mother company, Alphabet, invested at the same time. Uber, the big brother of the travel industry, was also in the list of investors. However, although Lime had more than 20 institutional investors, you only let two board members take the seat, which gave ACTC and Google Ventures the seat. The other two seats were created by you two.

So to sum up, I'd like to hear your thoughts, Brad. Because you are more familiar with the entrepreneurial environment of Google and the US. Pioneer needs to open up mainstream social media platforms. What if they all use social media to avoid the pandemic? And how do you see the future of social media platforms? This is a very interesting question. We can talk about this in depth and explain it relatively simply.

The first one is that I think the startup company can't think so much. Many times, right? If you think about it, what if Google does it? Or what if Facebook does it? Second, I think the core is that the winner is the winner. Who provides the best experience and the greatest value to the user? Including Lime and Uber, it's the same, right? I think the most important thing for Lime is

There are two very important partners in the world. I must find a way to let them see the value of Lime and be willing to cooperate with us. One is Google because of Google Maps. The other is Uber because Uber has global coverage. But the car cannot cover the last 1 km and it is not economic. At the same time, people will ask me at that time, what if Uber does it by itself? The fact is that Uber did it by itself. Of course, two years later, the entire department sold it to us.

So I think more of it is where we as a startup company will focus on, where we will focus on the value of the user. The user will eventually recognize whether you provide the best service and give it the best value, rather than saying, oh, because Facebook did this, I will do it with Facebook. This is one thing I think. The second thing I think is that TikTok is more like a Chinese enterprise, so it is relatively closed. In fact, most enterprises in Europe and the United States are open-minded.

Facebook Pay

都会去尝试一些电商的作为一个补充项。 但实际上在对于这个社交媒体在欧美, 它的广告是更盈利的项目。 也就是说它有那么一个位置给到电商其实是亏钱的, 所以他们做电商 naturally 就不太会成功。 这个是当然有些内部的人士我们也有些交流和讨论, 就是说他想做的所有事情全部都被 shut down, 在电商这一块。 就是这一个位置,

I can put an e-commerce and earn 10% of the profit. I can also put an advertisement and earn 90% of the profit. Right? And there is no risk. Because it is the business that takes the risk. The last one I think is the most interesting thing. Every company has culture. Culture will decide what this company can do and what it cannot do. Or whether it does well or not.

社交媒体公司和搜索公司都没有电商的基因,包括腾讯,我们也没有,我们也做过很多尝试,对吧?我们也花了很多的这个努力和钱,我们有最多的颇天的流量,没有那个基因,这是完全不同的一个基因。

I remember Liu Qiangdong once said that when he went to the United States, Tencent wanted to say that Liu Qiangdong had left, we must defeat him. As a result, Liu Qiangdong had been in the United States for so long, and when he came back, he found that the market position of JDM, market share, had increased. Finally, Tencent said, forget it.

If he leaves, we can't do anything about him. So we'll invest in him. So he told such a story. Even if it's like Tencent, it's hard for him to do things outside of his genes. He did a great job. Yes, that's right. And I think every company should have his focus, right? But I don't mean to say that, for example, TikTok and TT did a bad job. They did a very good job.

and they help educate the market. It has its own special gene. I don't believe Facebook, YouTube, or anything like that. Yes, I think from here, we can see a very important thing, which is that people are very important. Who did this thing? Who decided whether this thing could work? How far can it go? Instead of the specific thing. Actually, including my own business, because after I started my own business 10 years ago,

I realized that my own transformation from "saving lives and thinking about society" to "taking people as your foundation" sometimes it's not really "saving lives and thinking about society" but "saving people and thinking about people". Especially I think this is a big change from last year. Last year and the year before, including the topic of organization we are going to talk about next. For example, as I just mentioned, the culture and genealogy of a company is also very important.

I think there are some interesting points in this. We can only discuss some facts we see. One is, for example, as we talked about, WeChat is an e-commerce platform. Because Zhang Xiaolong has such a powerful social platform, why can't WeChat do e-commerce? Because e-commerce is a very important service. Including 2B, it actually needs to do all the services of the whole chain.

Actually, it's very important. So we don't have customer service on WeChat. Everyone says that you can't find customer service on your official account. You can't find customer service on small programs. So from the perspective of a 2C company, I don't need customer service. But if you want a 2B company to have no customer service, no service, including me telling you to spend time, that's a collapse. From a series of perspectives, from a 2B perspective, why? Because when you first do it, you will be asked a question. What should I do with the factory? You just said it very well. Don't answer this question.

Including what I just mentioned, he finally used Pinduoduo to invest in JD and then closed his social e-commerce business. But recently, there is another thing that has arisen, which is that he has also made a micro-channel shop. At that time, YouZan was actually listed on Dongfeng through the whole small program. And the business has also grown very well in the past 10 years.

Of course, the stock price is another topic. But now that WeChat is out, it's starting to enter the market again. And WeChat is very innovative. So I give gifts. So actually I found that the big and small factories have a very big opportunity to fight. Including because we have a deep cooperation with YouZan. Quick hand, maybe a few years ago, I forgot a few years ago. And then the first time, because it is also all adults. And then all adults, all the transactions at the beginning, are given to YouZan's small program. In fact, when everyone first talked about it, they said they would do it themselves sooner or later.

Because this is something I must fight for. Otherwise, I would have a very high profit from GMV. Not to mention the details, but in the end, it may still be in the big market. There are some things he really went to the market in order to do self-repair. Of course, there are also some differences in Chinese and American culture, etc. So in fact, this kind of peace and harmony has always been happening in the entire business ecosystem. But in retrospect, it may still be said that who did this thing may be more important.

I think people, genes, culture, and so on will all have an impact. But the core of being a startup is to focus on the value and experience of the users, not the possible competition. There will always be competition. I talked to the founder of Spotify. He said the most common question he was asked was what to do if Apple did it.

那就别干了对吧 Spotify 也不应该有了 Netflix 也不应该有了 他们今天还是面临很大的压力 但是他们今天也还是在提供最好的服务 所以这点是我非常相信的 就是早期十几二十年前就是一样的 就是你做啥都说那微软做了咋办 对吧 包括搜索啊 包括 Google 对吧 包括以前有个东西叫 MSN 如果大家还记得的话

So I think this shouldn't be a topic about what to do if it does, right? Instead, it should be more concerned about the value and experience of the user. But what did I say about the topic just now? Because the United States is too scattered, China should do this. WeChat should do it, but it's not actually an e-commerce. It's a technical structure. This technical structure enables a lot of things, right? It should enable these things. It should control the key information flow. I think this is right from WeChat's point of view.

但他不会去碰后面的电商。 就是我帮你去找货, 我帮你去谈价, 我帮你发货, 对吧? 这兵中多干的事。 我不觉得微信有这个基因, 也不觉得他们会去做。 欧美这块呢, 我觉得因为太散, 每家做都不 make sense, 不光是对于平台而言, 就对于一个商家也不 make sense。 就是刚才我就随便数数, 就是说商家要去管,

九个不同的店,然后达人也要去管九个不同的店,用户要再注册九个不同的账号,这个事情就不太 make sense,对吧? 就最终回到是说用户的体验和他的整个这个叫经济架构的效率是不是合适,对吧? 那当然最后呢还是说整个欧美的互联网实际上是一个广告加 SaaS 的经济体,

Advertising is so profitable. Why would it hit the e-commerce? Every position is a loss to the e-commerce. I'd rather sell it to advertisers. Right? So this logic is different from China. China is not like that. China is an e-commerce plus trading type.

Right.

其实有一个更大的蛋糕在面前的时候,那个小的其实没必要去弄,我抓好大的不香了。 是这个逻辑。 对,所以其实我作为一个创业者也总被投资人 challenge 同样的话题嘛,就咱们刚才说的大厂做怎么办,可能后来我意识到,其实投资人是想听你背后讲清楚为什么是我能做成这件事的逻辑,为什么是我这个逻辑。 所以其实我们说组织是最重要的,如何搭建团队是最重要的,如何找到自己的差异化竞争是最重要的。

As far as I know, the current team of Pair is divided into two places in China and the United States. The engineer ratio is over 80%. You have been talking about your face. Before the meeting, you were the technical assistant vice president of the Korean e-commerce giant Coupang. Before that, you were the search and development supervisor of the global popular visual social platform Pinterest.

Before Pinterest, Hui also worked at Google for seven years. He is the core member of the Google network search team. On the other hand, in the past three years, Pair has mainly put a lot of effort into the industry to create a social e-commerce technology platform that is consistent and can solve the actual needs of customers.

On the other hand, as the pair gradually moves towards the market, the team and organization may also adjust as the scale expands. For example, Shopify's current organization size is also more than 10,000 people. Regarding the organization, I saw that you had received two interviews before. One was in 2019, you received an interview from TwentyVC. You said that it is very important to have a common vision and values when establishing a high-quality team.

最有才华的人会被具有强大使命 和巨大影响力潜力的公司所吸引 同时你也聊到 在公司扩张的过程中 挑战在于培养具有不同偏好 和自我的强大个体之间的凝聚力 所以 LIME 更强调协调一致 持续培养团队凝聚力 而不是一次性的解决问题 还有一次是在 2020 年 2 月 你接受 CNN 的采访 然后那个时候 LIME 刚刚

China

戴尔如何在不同的时期协调不同的背景的团队? 这个问题其实更好的是问辉,我的 CTO,因为大量的是工程团队这边的协调,同时而言他有很多的经验,以前在股放也是,他是 3D 还是 4D 的团队,而且不同的文化背景,不同的地域,中国和韩国,然后是美国,然后是印度,印度和美国可能英文还通一点,中美的英文已经开始打折了,到了韩国基本就不懂英文,

还是带着方言的英文。 所以他的这个方面的能力应该算是真的叫世界一流,所以对他而言并没有那么难。 但我们整个团队而言是说,作为一个创业公司的变化特别快,所以怎么去随时的协调大家对这个产品和市场的认知,这个其实是可能更难的一件事情。

For big companies, for example, Microsoft, they plan for three years and five years. Everyone knows that they won't do anything else after three years. They will do this. For smaller companies, they may write a letter every year. What is my plan for this year? For small companies like us, we start a new business every day. So when we started building the infrastructure, we had a one-on-one meeting once a quarter. Then we started to contact foreign products. It became a month and a half. Now it's a month and a half.

Every month we have to re-adjust the focus and pace. Then every week I will send you an update. It's at this stage. Lime was more nervous at that time. Lime said we were one day a day. The market is not running every day. So there will be a full-on conference every week. This is the most expensive one.

Because you all gave up one to two hours to sit there, right? But you must coordinate and unite to do this thing. Pairing may not be the same, because LAM is a relatively standardized review process. So accuracy is more important, more like e-commerce. E-commerce accuracy is very important, but as a game company, accuracy may not be so important, right? As an advertisement or social media, accuracy is not so important.

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So it actually looks like different company models are suitable for different organizational models. Like LAM, which actually emphasizes operationality, then it needs to go to where it needs to go. Because we just heard that it has always been about unity, coordination, and where to go. But pure technology companies actually need to play with creativity, play with creativity. Then you can't just go to where to go. So it actually sounds like we are going from a relative stage to another relative stage. It's because what everyone is doing is different.

Right, I think there will be a difference, but there still needs to be constraints. Things that don't have constraints are just nonsense, right? So you think our framework and goal should be very clear, but the path is not necessarily. This is a big difference. Is it you use Python or use other languages? Which one is more efficient? This should be done by the team. But the goal and what we are going to do must be very clear, or else it will be very messy.

Right? I think Steve Jobs did a very good job. Half of the people think he's a genius, and the other half think he's a tyrant. What is the half of the tyrant? The goal is very clear. The phone is this big. You have to be able to take it with one hand. Right? When there was no screen, you had to screen.

Right.

希望是这样,对吧? 就大家都在成长的过程中, 而且在创业公司有很多时候, 说实话,我能知道世界上所有的事情和预测吗? 不可能,没有一个人可能, 它是一个失措的过程, 它也是一个创造的过程,对吧? 要不然的话,这个可能好像也没啥意思了, 就如果今天就知道明天后天, 大后天怎么活着,对吧? 大家就不会来选择创业了。

- That's right. - Okay, next topic. We will try to look at it from the perspective of investment. Because early investment is not only about investing but also about making decisions for the future. So investors often talk about this kind of essence, the ultimate, and these strange words, especially Chinese investors. Let's go back to what we just said about the 2019 2020 VC blog interview. When you talked about the global expansion of Lime and the strategy of the local market, you talked about as a global brand with network effects and more than 100 market data,

LAM can provide better services, whether it's the size of the company or the location. Service level is the most important factor for users. You also talked about where the user goes. This versatility and network effect are key factors in mobile services. In the same way, in 2019,

Another co-founder of VAM, Tao Bichun, spoke in an interview with a Chinese media. "The supply chain, government relations, and operating efficiency are the three main principles of VAM. What you want is 'friendly and aggressive'. So, in general, I understand that the network is also the key to VAM's success. And China's supply chain and government relations are indispensable components."

In addition, through the interview with the Chinese media, I also learned that at first, you and Tobi wanted to invest in a US-based single-carrier company with a Chinese supply chain background. But you couldn't find one, so you decided to do it yourself. It's equivalent to an investment perspective, and then you founded Lime.

You are also a public figure in this Pair. Not only investing, but also investing yourself. So I want you to talk about this from an investment perspective. Investors often talk about the ultimate thinking. What do you think is the ultimate possible for Pair? And what are the key factors that determine the ultimate?

Facebook

If they guess and say that I want to go in that direction, many times it's wrong. Instead, it ignores what the users want and what the partners want. So this is something we are more focused on. But you said that some are likely to look forward to it, right? But it shouldn't become a core judgment standard. I think this is a very important thing. I believe that if someone asked Pony what the ultimate of Tencent is, he would say that it's making BB machines.

So I think a good company is actually something that I admire very much. It is a organic body that grows on its own. It is constantly exploring the outside world, constantly absorbing knowledge, constantly strengthening itself, constantly evolving. Good companies are always like this.

I don't know what the evidence is. But I think from the Chinese market, what is unreasonable is more important. Another good friend told me not to guess the future. Especially if you add a time, say I will do this in five years, or I will do this in five years. This is the most dangerous thing. Guessing the future is already a dangerous thing. If you guess the future and add a time, it may be the most dangerous thing in the world. You shouldn't guess the future. But you can see what is wrong. It's easier to see.

Right.

I don't know if Pear can replace it. But I think in the next five to ten years, will the United States still be 90% or 100% independent on the TV market and trade? I don't think so. China is zero. But has the United States become 100% online games? It doesn't seem to be. Maybe 80% or 20% of single-player games. I think this is a big probability. It should happen. It's not that I think Pear will replace it.

而是说从用户的角度,从商家的角度 那样更加有效,更加的能够让大家发挥创造力 更加的能够有更好的体验 但我希望 Payless 是说能够去承载这个使命 能承载多少这个就要看我们努力

跟这相关的呢,我觉得是,以前我还挺触动,因为我是浙江人嘛,那个温州乐青人,所以我们的这个亲戚朋友什么都是在这个制造业,那这是我觉得一生人都有一定的使命感吧,这也是其中使命一个,就是看着制造业的这个发展成长也赚了很多钱。

But at the same time, we also see that the first one is how much the Chinese industrial chain has earned in the entire value chain. 5% to 8% 90% or more are in the hands of Walmart, Costco, Amazon, etc. I mean profit. Second, can China build this world-famous brand?

百年的老店,这些都是我算我自己的一个使命吧,然后因为我的背景是说我的第一个展现的方式是什么呢,是帮助腾讯过去化,所以这个也一直在做这件事,然后我觉得中国现在 ready 了。

From the production and manufacturing capabilities, including ODM, which is designed by China, right? The quality has been achieved in all aspects. We can also see in history, like Germany, Japan, and later South Korea, they can all do this. Why can't China do it? It's impossible. What is lacking? Lack of channels and brands.

How to establish this is what Peier is doing Can you help them build more effective channels Can you say that the influence of this brand and its value Including some of its values It can spread out and it's a positive way This is why I established a core of Peier This is called mission sense It has nothing to do with market opportunities I've been doing this all the time

包括 LINE 那这个就回到 你像马云以前 我觉得阿里巴巴那个视频就非常好 是说让天下没有难做的生意 确实做到很多 对吧 你看中国的这个电商都盘火 包括说带来的这个物流啊 这个支付啊 各方面都做到了 然后呢 那阿里 Express 这些也做了一部分 让 B2B 的跨境做得还不错 但我希望是说 能不能配合会让成为国际品牌 不是一个难做的生意 今天是个非常难的事情

因为这个文化的间隔 对市场的洞察 对用户的触达 天价的广告费 各种各样的原因 都是造成了很多难关 那有没有可能是 Pair 会到一天是说 你有一个真的有好的产品 新的品牌 在这个平台上 有足够的 agency 帮你去联系红人 帮你去制定策略 帮你通过私域的方式 去把品牌的 不光是说能触达用户 而是把它的亮点吧

它的特性全部能够讲出来。 这个就解决了刚才说的两个问题, 渠道加上品牌的影响力。 这两个问题解决, 中国才能够真正的有国际化的品牌。 对,所以其实听起来, 刚才聊到的这些链路, 其实相当于是从帮助腾讯, 巨头公司出海。 当时,对。 那时候腾讯几百个人, 市值好像一个边连,小公司。 那就换个说法,就是从一家…

From helping a small company to internationalizing a large Chinese company, to helping millions of small Chinese companies to achieve internationalization. So this is, it sounds like it's a step by step to complete the mission of helping everyone internationalize.

这是我希望能做到。

Of course, we are still exploring and focusing on how to improve the advertising turnover and how to connect with the popular people and how to bring more effective goods at this stage. But this platform will definitely grow and continue to develop. Another one that may not have been answered is that Lime is very clear. From the first day we mentioned the three iron triangles to the end to today, it is still the same.

硬件制造能力,政府的合作的关系,运营效率,到今天还是一样,没有区别。 所以这些呢,我觉得反而是不叫预测,可以相对看得比较清楚的,就我们要真的能够接近或者做得好我们,

希望达到的效果 会是什么样的 对吧 有几个成功要素 第一是我们的产品本身 要非常符合人性 而且非常好用 其实虽然我们是 B2B2C 或者是 B2B2I2C 有更复杂的一个链路 对品牌而言 最核心的 还说对它品牌的提升 和销量的提升 这两点都来自于什么呢 是红人愿意帮忙 消费者愿意买单 嗯

红人其实更像个人,不像生意。 所以我们做了大量工作是在红人和消费者这一端,其实最后还是个消费者体验。 你看那个商家呢是愿意 jump over the hurdle,就比如说进沃玛那么难,那商家还在进,对吧?

Why? Facebook's ads are so hard to use, but everyone is still trying to learn and use them. Why? So there's a difference in this. We can bring the greatest value to our partners in the latter part. It's in the user's insight, in their experience, in their conversion rate, in whether the popular person is willing to recognize this brand or not want to do it once. Right? This is what we want to solve for them. This will bring them the greatest value. The elements needed are good products. Right? This is one. The second is

There is a certain group effect. How many of the brands are not so much of a cover and influence, right? But if there are many brands and celebrities, it will bring a group effect. There is also a certain network effect. The third one, I think it's a process of market education. We mentioned it just now, right? The delivery is new. Say that celebrities can open their own stores. This is new. Users say I'm not buying from Amazon. I'm buying things from a celebrity. This is also new.

This is a process of education. But this education process is not just about cheap prices or what. I think as a entrepreneur, the proudest thing is whether we can lead a market movement. This movement is about why this is going to happen. Most of the D2C is losing money because of advertising fees. Advertising doesn't convert, and private traffic can't get in. It will be destroyed. A lot of D2C is not its product.

这个就是一个 movement 这个 movement 是说可能是红人主动的说 我宁愿不要广告费 我去推广我喜欢的这个小众品牌

This requires the whole society, that is, the product can support this thing. Everyone is not willing to spend a lot of energy, right? Have enough 集群 and efficiency Then everyone has this conscious wake up So in Lime, I also said that there are a few things that I am very proud of. It's not financing or any valuation. I think that is also a wrong indicator. There are a few, the first one is to drive the greening and clean air movement of all major cities in Europe and the United States.

Paris has never seen a bicycle lane. After the Lime Launch, they built a bicycle lane of 900 kilometers. They built the whole of Paris. Then London and San Francisco also started to talk about this. They said we were going to refuse to drive. We want to green city. This has nothing to do with Lime. But we brought the whole movement. Everyone has discussed the government's action. I believe that the Licei Road has been built for 900 years and has never had a bicycle lane. After the Lime Launch,

It took less than a month to build a bicycle lane. This is something I am very proud of. In terms of Lime. Secondly, in addition to the city's discount, it also saves hundreds of millions of users a lot of time. Otherwise, it would be stuck in traffic. This is also something I am very proud of. Then, in Pear, it is a hard shot. I hope it can bring a movement. There are various small and medium-sized brands in China. It has a business that makes business really difficult. It makes business in the world become difficult.

它也可以 launch, 它可以找到它自己的 community, 哪怕只有很小的人群, 它能够很好的发展, 对吧? 然后在这个红人也好, 在用户这边说, 我在支持这个多元化, 而不是只是被动的被广告洗脑, 哪个广告多我点哪个, 那这个不容易, 但我觉得是值得去奋斗的一个事情。 对,那从电商,

以一个后来者可能还是需要用一些最先进的技术提供一些完全不同的产品体验, 其实刚才聊了蛮多的产品体验,以及完全不同的商业模式, 同时有一个非常好的能力来支撑产品用户之间的高速增长。 那我们顺着接下来就聊聊最先进的技术。

AI.

大家从零到一的时候一定要必不可少的。 但其实还有一个存量的入口, 尤其为什么国内的私域, 我的感觉为什么国内的私域先卷起来, 是因为流量见顶,流量变得越来越贵。 流量见顶的时代,大家要去找私域,要去找存量。 因为我们服务的私域的很多品牌, 我们服务了基本所有头部的私域的品牌,

其实从私域的角度来讲,我们在想说,其实过去都是千人千面的推送,刚才咱们也聊到了很多推送,那我们认为其实接下来最重要的其实是实现千人千面的互动,大部分的互动是在实现千人千面的互动。

AI

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can simply create questions and answers in the dedicated knowledge library, generate marketing email content, and determine the best time to publish, and have a transferable customer service chat robot, etc. In addition, Shopify Magic can also provide an AI assistant, ZKick, as a dedicated consultant, which can answer questions related to construction and operation, help analyze data, and provide professional business advice, and provide support to Shopify customers at any time. So,

Back to Power, Power is still in its early stages. Its functions are relatively simple and it has its own development rhythm. The core is to create real value for the brand and customers. AI will also be integrated into the front-end industry. People in Bright are actually at the forefront of technology, the first line, the closest distance, so they can feel the influence of AI more and have a background of such deep investment and will have a deeper insight.

So please share with us how AI is moving around the world, and how do you see the combination of AI and pair and the development trend of AI? I think these two topics are better separated. AI to AI pair, our guidance is all about what value it adds to users.

We still have a lot of things in the construction process. I learned this. No matter how Intel develops, it doesn't matter how you wear shoes in the morning. It doesn't matter what changes and what doesn't change. In the field of e-commerce, the core is because of our vision. We are doing a lot of technical architecture. Technical architecture is not required in AI.

Instead, it's more solid, for example, whether the payment is safe, right? Is the deposit equal? Is the price right? All kinds of things like this, we will spend more energy, including the user experience, right? AI is, I always feel that technology is always a tool, not a purpose. What role does it play in it? Can it bring bonus? If it can bring bonus, it should be used. But if it doesn't bring bonus, it doesn't have to force it.

So our current stage is because we want to make a change and improvement of the entire platform. AI is not a core thing. Right? The thing about red people having electricity is more important than the AI assistant. He has no electricity today. Right?

This is the core. So sometimes we say that we are doing a lot of things in infrastructure. Let's not talk about the car running first. You have to pave the road first. If the road is not paved, the car can't run. This is one aspect. On the other hand, there must be countless points that can be combined after AI. It is still needed. There is one like what you just mentioned. For example, a big red person.

they may not have time to reply to 200 messages a day. This AI is very useful. But if it's not like this, two messages a day, I think it's better to reply to them personally. It may be more personalized. So it depends on the need. But we may try something later. For example, we did the landing page. We logged all the data. This is possible to replace AI. According to all the performance of the log, to adjust the dynamic,

So it's not just thousands of people signing up, it could be tens of thousands of people, right? Let's say I'm giving an example. Every time I come in, I just finish it in two seconds. If you're interested, you can buy it directly, right? Then maybe the version I gave him is not a ten-page long text, maybe just two pages. Then there's no need to waste his time, right?

There are people who are very careful and cautious. We really have such users. I was so dumb that I watched for 40 minutes and bought a fish tank. Should I give him a hand and say, "Do you have any problems?" I think AI is in this practical application. This is what Pear thinks. Or my general opinion is that all technologies are tools. No technology is the purpose.

Whether it's using AI, or AJAX, or Python, or other kinds of technologies, they're all tools. From another perspective, I think AI will have a very big impact on the future of every place, little by little. Now, when it comes to application, I think there may be a process. Most of the efforts are still put on the infrastructure, whether it's the modeling, or the algorithm, right?

但最终呢,表现的形式可能是各种各样的 agent, 这个购物也好,订票也好,从个人的角度来讲, 对吧,是你的一个这个 super assistant, 从 business 角度来讲的话,它是最终的 interface, 这个我以前那位小龙讨论了挺多,张小龙啊, 就说最终我们做了很多事情都是 interface 的改变和,

微信语音是你的嘴的延伸和你的耳朵的延伸。 Interface 从粗屏也好,从小屏也好,大屏也好,包括说是靠点击还是靠填表,还是靠语音,还是靠什么,最后都是 interface 改变。 AI 有一个很大的改变是 interface,interface 就不再是说你去浏览,你去填表,填个什么,切成像这样你先填一堆东西,或者说左点右点。

If this changes, it will change our lives and the entire industry. Of course, there is another interface that is more extreme, which is Neuralink. This is something we have discussed before, but it is a little deeper. Humanity is now limited to not being our brain and our creativity, but our communication efficiency. You can read so many words in a second. Speaking is a lower efficiency.

We've been talking for a long time, and you write it down, and it's probably ten minutes to finish, right? This has become the biggest bottleneck for human progress and creativity. But if it's brain waves, it's possible that the speed of communication between our communication today and the speed of communication on the computer may be thousands of times worse. So we have become a bottleneck. This is called thinking thousands of times. We think thousands of times, and at the end of the day, you can say so many words in a second.

So this is quite interesting. AI can change a lot of things. But if you add, for example, brain waves, right? Then humans become super computers. And it's a creative super computer. We are born in an interesting era. I'm a little older than you guys, right? From when we were young, we literally ate a lot of food. Until today, it's hard to imagine that there will be such an experience in human life. Ancient people haven't changed in a thousand years.

we will have the feeling that the times are changing. In our era, even if you count the time in mobile internet, it's only been more than ten years.

Yes, we will talk about the next topic in a bit more detail. But from another perspective, let's go back to our topic today. Let's look at Chinese brands and American social e-commerce. As we all know, China is a major manufacturing country. It has the world's leading, or even the first, product supply chain. In addition to the huge population and perfect digital industrial infrastructure, it has the world's first e-commerce market. At the same time, it is also the world's second largest consumer market.

The US is the second largest e-commerce market in the world but the world's largest consumer market In the past, there were not many Chinese brands that could really take the lead in the US market Even if there were, I personally think that almost all of them

to be curious about their own innovation or to be able to find new products. For example, Da Jiang, Shein, Anke, etc. But in fact, many of the leading American and global brands are all using Chinese supply chains, such as Apple, Tesla, Nike, etc.

But as I talked about at the beginning, at least the US social e-commerce part, we have seen this episode, and it's not bad. At least there is a chance to combine the local way of the United States with the experience of China in the American market. Maybe we can do it again, which is to realize the "train-and-roll supercar" we mentioned earlier.

Of course, as the economist He Fan said, the 20th century is the beginning of the globalization era. The 21st century is the beginning of the localization era. The geopolitics is the beginning of globalization, trade protectionism, etc. The uncertain factors still exist. The relationship between China and the United States is still changing. But at least the needs of Chinese brands to go out are determined. So I want to invite Brad to share with you from a relatively positive perspective. Is social e-commerce a Chinese brand?

美国市场半道超车的机会吗? 以及是说在不确定性的中美关系中 有没有什么确定性的东西? 对,我觉得这个就比较大的一个话题 但是呢反而很多时候有趣的是什么呢? 就越大的事越简单 越简单的事越清晰 还反而是可能会更准确 几个可能更准确的事就我的认为啊

First, Chinese brands will definitely make many breakthroughs overseas. This is because China's production and manufacturing industry is a large industry. There are many ways for the power of this industry to explode. There is a saying that happy families look good, right? Sad families have their own sadness. But actually, if you think about it, these brands and merchants who have succeeded overseas, they actually have their own characteristics. For example, Dajiang is indeed very technical.

而且成本低,对吧? 以前我们看过,那时候我们做投资的时候,我们看过大疆,看过一航,看过美国的叫 Patriot,看过 3D Robotics,最开始的时候是 3D Robotics 和那个是比大疆的技术牛逼的,MIT 的实验室出来什么什么的。

Right? But what can't be stopped is what? It's the cost of manufacturing of Big River, which can make it deliver a lot of speed. In the past, the American saying was that Lime also benefits from this. It's called hardware is hard. Every two to three years, it's good to deliver once. You can think about the speed of delivery in Big River. Then when Lime delivers, it says, what? You deliver once in two years. We deliver once in two months.

It's impossible for my product to be worse than you. And then the manufacturing cost is still one third of it. This is to produce hardware. Not only does it become my selling price. It has become a core competitiveness. It is a innovative engine. Lime did it. Everyone did it. Right? I think it's faster than you. My quantity is bigger than you. And then the machine technology can bring. Including the production equipment used.

I remember that the small competitors in the US only used the existing production technology. We can use the refrigerant because of the trust level of Chinese suppliers. What is the refrigerant? It's the one that Tesla bragged about. They said that the truck I used was a refrigerant. It can have a bandage and something else. We had a 40-ton refrigerant to make a skateboard car before them.

These things can become competitive. What's different is that it turns the ability of small unit speed into a brand. In the past, small unit speed was used to make samples. It has always existed before. It helps people make seasonal goods. But it turned it into a competitive brand.

Anke, I'm familiar with her. She is the first user experience. Her product power is very good. She made a difference in a market that looks completely different. So I think she is a better example. Any brand can be better than Charmant.

I was impressed by the marketing professor at the time. I was the first Chinese to learn marketing. China didn't have a marketing major or a degree before me. The marketing professor said it was great for the university. He said if I went out and said that there was no difference in products in the world, it was my biggest failure. Then he gave me a bottle of water and said,

水都是有差异化的 你为啥不买可乐那个水 你为啥买富士那个水 你为啥买农夫山泉那个水

If the water can be decentralized, there is nothing that can't be decentralized. But when I look back, why do I think this era is better now? There was no way back in the real economy. It's still called channels and brands. These are two things, channels and brands. Before, if you couldn't get into Walmart, you were 50% out of sales. But that was controlled by people. When people control it, as a Chinese company, go overseas, right? And there are a lot of details in it. It's actually a difficult thing to say. Right?

Secondly, brands. In the early days, OEMs were the most popular in China. OEMs didn't control design. They didn't have the sense of aesthetic and IP. Now, after this stage, I think the original contract was 10 to 20 years. Many companies later became OEMs and then became ODMs. When it comes to ODMs, we design them. We have the design. There is no brand outside.

Right? So this is a product readiness and channel readiness. There is no one on the line. No one controls that you can't buy a product. You can't cooperate with a person. This channel has also been opened. These are the two main elements I think. That is, product power plus channel. The channel brings, if it is a good product, it does it right. It brings the influence of the brand. This is why I think there is a very good opportunity now. But if a Chinese brand enters a new market with people,

拼刺刀,对吧? 就是去比这个广告创意,比广告谁买的好。 我觉得对于一个中国企业,尤其我们合作了很多合作伙伴, 他人都在国内,是不太可能跟一个本土的企业去拼得过去的。 你反过来想的这事就很简单,对吧? 如果一个老外品牌说我在中国跟你去拼社交营销, 我人都没去过,我也不知道中国新年是长啥样的, 为什么那个狮子是那个样子的,对吧? 是不太可能成功的。

最多做到平起平坐,有可能成本更高。 但是呢,你想老外进中国的时候, 他有他的文化输出,有他的品牌的主张,对吧? 是有他的这个媒体轰炸,包括杂志啊,包括什么。 反过来呢,回到刚才说那个做游戏的, 现在为什么说社交电商是机会, 是咱看过这事儿。

知道该怎么玩, 知道这个团队应该怎么配, 知道多有威力,欧美现在是零, 所以结合在一起, 就是说时间对, 设计能力这些东西也到了一个紧喷的状态, 对吧? 然后呢, 渠道是畅通的, 在 online 这一块, 在线是通的, 再加上说,

There are new ways of operation and play. It's like a multi-player game. Multi-player games took a very long time for European and American market development studios to learn this thing. Of course, there is another point. It's actually the ability to operate. I know that many Chinese operators at that time, in order to solve multi-player games, they started to have 4,000 people in China's factory room to play with.

Any new user comes in and there are a bunch of people playing with him. This is a new business model and operation model. And the human resources in China support this. I'm not saying e-commerce must do this. I'm just saying there are a lot of things that can be borrowed. Actually, I understand that this is a sea of ​​outcome. We used to talk about the sea of ​​outcome, the sea of ​​outcome of the supply chain, the sea of ​​outcome of the engineering company Hongli. Today, from Brad, we talk about more of a sea of ​​outcome of the knowledge of operation capability. This is also a very new sea of ​​outcome.

Our next topic is back to you and the influence of the past on you. You can call it quick questions and quick answers, or quick questions and slow answers.

In the previous 20VC blog interview, you talked about the impact of Tencent on Lime. For example, Tencent's importance to user experience deeply affected you. For example, Lime and Tencent are the same. They don't spend money to get users, but they rely on product quality for sales. Sales is zero. For example, it should emphasize the user's emotional experience, not just the practicality of the product.

You think that Tencent is still one of the most respected technology companies in the world. There are many companies in the world, but few companies can achieve such achievements and establish a truly positive culture and influence. Standing at this time, from Lime to Pair, from 2C to relative 2B, what do you think is the biggest gain of Tencent's eight years as the general manager of the US market? And what is the current impact?

Right. I think Tencent, including other great companies, has a great impact on us. Including some of my food friends, they all gave me a lot of good suggestions and brought a lot of depth. The reason I say it's a big impact is not because it was so big at the time, but because of its depth. It's probably a lifelong impact.

我觉得在腾讯的时候几个比较重要的,第一个就是说是对产品的关注,其实最后你映射在还是说对用户的价值或者说用户体验的尊敬,对吧,就用户很多时候是我们不光是应该去迎合他,而且是应该尊敬他,不是说从商业上的光是一视父母什么的。

而是说它是我们的原动力, 它是我们最好的帮助者,对吧,去提升。 所以在 LINE 也是在任何我想做的事情, 这个永远都是一个指南针,对我影响很大。 那第二个呢,就腾讯, 我觉得今天我也还是很敬佩, 是自我发展的能力, 从我加入的时候那会儿, 基本没游戏,也不要说任何别的东西了,对吧。

I was wondering if QQ could receive more membership fees and sell some dishes. It was such a stage. But it was self-developing and even self-destruction. I think this is a very powerful place for Tencent to be. It's actually better than many other companies. For example, Facebook has not been self-destructing. It has been buying.

没有能说自我去突破,自我去演变或者是扩张。 那腾讯呢,我去的时候就,我说那个时候,对吧, 我们在游戏界就根本就不能算是个公司, 到后面腾讯是世界最大的游戏公司。 然后包括说自我革命出现了微信, 然后微信之后呢,我觉得更厉害的一个是说, QQ 又回来了,对吧,又变成了中国第二大社交媒体。 这个我觉得对于在一个公司发生,基本上绝无仅有, 是很厉害很厉害的一件事情,对吧。

第二个呢,我是觉得就是中美视角。 因为那时候我做了很多事情也是在中美,无论是说投资的机会也好,包括相互这边理念的传输,然后包括当时的人才啊,这个资金的这种流动,对吧? 就会看到说,可能

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In China, they say, "How can you sell a single-player game?" "How can you sell this?" It should not be sold. This brings a lot of opportunities. It will make us think about many things. It will also think about the cultural difference. It has a social income difference. For example, many Chinese merchants used to sell at a low price. Later he said, "I'm 40% cheaper than others." "I must sell it." I took him to have a cup of coffee. After drinking, he said, "That cup of coffee."

美国的消费者根本就不是个事儿。 你便宜 40%便宜了 3 美金, 你觉得会有关系吗? 其实是没关系的,对吧? 改变是说卖便宜货到时候怎么去建品牌的这个事情。 反而应该可能是多卖 5 美金。

So when Lime launched, we had a principle. We asked if the local consumer level could reach Lime's level. We sent a local to his shop and ordered a latte. If the latte was more than 4 yuan, we would go. If it wasn't more than 4 yuan, we wouldn't go. Interesting. Now let's talk about Lime's experience. There is a fun fact.

Lime means green, and the theme color is green. Pear means pear, and it's also a fruit. The theme color is green as well. I don't know if this is something you want to continue or if this is your style.

In fact, in the previous dialogue, we have repeatedly mentioned that product growth, business model, investment team, etc. are all involved. On the one hand, we have a special talk. On the other hand, we also talk more about the good part. I would like to ask Brad to summarize from these two aspects. What is the inspiration of Lime's creative experience for the creative pair? And is there any lesson? First of all, that's not my style. There is no style. Some people say we are like Steve Jobs. We have used all the other fruits.

这确实有绰号叫水果创始人,叫 Fruit Founder,这是碰巧。 因为 Lime 周当时我和 Toby 去订这个品牌的时候,我们唯一确定的事是说那个 logo 一定是绿色的,因为这是我们的主张,对吧? 但我们因为做微出行呢,你可以想那个我们最早做的是自行车,后来是滑板车嘛。

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哈哈哈哈在那跑 当然另一块呢就是说 水果有一个好处是说它比较友好 是一个每一天你都会接触 但是有每个人都会觉得比较友好的一个事情 对吧 所以我们是希望成为一个亲民的品牌 而不是像有一些所谓的高冷的

Uber is a cold brand, right? We don't want to do that. What black one? It looks like a coin, right? This is not what we want to do. So we are round green. You finally have a floating bar because of the bicycle. You look at this line, right? Pear is different. Pear, you have to think about it. Our domain name is pear.us. Pear is because of the consonant.

配对。 匹配吧。 对,是 pair us, 我们是匹配品牌消费者, 匹配红人消费者, 这样是这么一个关系, 所以叫 pair us, 这是这么来的, 不是因为水果也不是这个, 还是要从用户的出发, 对吧,他们能不能听得懂, 他们觉得有时候有一个品牌, 你听过突然想明白了, 能微笑一下, 这个是挺 delightful 的一个事情, 对吧。

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Right.

Right.

Right? So we chose quality and speed, not cost. But in fact, there are many things. I won't go into details. I think the first one is very important. Some things don't need to be rushed. What should come will come. We still need to be firm. Although we can be proud of Lime, that war was over in two years.

到之后就没有挑战者是赢了。 但是这个赢的代价呢, 就是有各方面的代价可能太高, 而且呢可能没必要, 这个是最关键的。 这是我另一个导师跟我说的, 说没必要, 可能说了大家可能知道是谁。

He said, "I will do it for the sake of the world." But he said, "I will do it for the sake of the world." I was very proud of that. "Do the right thing, do the right thing." Instead of robbing, instead of saying, "I judge this is a network response, what must I do?" And the second half. He said, "I said it before, I said the first half, everyone misunderstood." I thought this was a trick, something like that. He said, "There is a second half." It may not have been finished at that time. It's called "The Immortal in the Afterlife."

应该是

It should be Duan Yongping who influenced many entrepreneurs. In fact, Pinduoduo also has many of these latter-fathers, including e-commerce, how to get up and go out of the sea. He is not always the first one, but how to find your own advantage. We just talked about the advantage of a bottle of water. It is still possible to gain the overall advantage in this partial advantage.

Yes. In fact, there are also many great organizations mentioned here. You also mentioned a book called "From Excellence to Excellence". Do you think that book really describes how to create and why to create a basic principle of a major company? The core point of the book is that the biggest enemy of excellence is excellence. It also mentions some characteristics of great companies, such as the fifth-level leaders, the after-life of the ancestors, the reality of the face, the idea of the second position, cultural self-discipline, and so on.

因为我都可以拿出法例。

几个基本的还是说用户至上,就是为用户创造价值。 最终用户是非常,就我说用户是 consumer 也好, partner 也好,是世界上最聪明的人。 就是你坑他,骗他,想走点捷径,最后都不会那个,这是一个核心。 第二个是文化,好的文化才是一个卓越的公司。 我觉得卓越的公司最终是能不能有一个好的文化,然后有一群人不光是说我信的文化,而是在实践这些文化。

Right.

最优秀的比如说 content 的定义是什么? 是不出错,对吧? 最优秀的经理人是说你教我活,我都给你干得很好。 但这个就回到了说有时候为什么说优秀是卓越的可能的敌人, 是因为他没有那个足够的宽容度去犯一些错,去探索。 探索和创新没有一帆风顺的,哪怕是最牛逼的人。

even if Elon Musk's rocket has dropped several times, right? But to allow him to have this space to do these things, but fundamentally, it's still the right thing to do. Doing things right is still more fundamental and more critical. This is about the company's vision, culture, and other things. So back to the companies I admired just now, right? Tencent is a very good company, even their own life is in danger. If you look from an excellent manager's point of view, it's a mental illness.

股价也掉了,这个市场上一片的质疑,各种各样的这种事情一直有上有下,有上有下,但真正的这些我觉得叫卓越。 我觉得回归常识,敢于试错。 对,我觉得最核心的一个企业的生长力是在哪,是在突破,是在那个的,对吧? 很多时候可能会要试错,因为这个未来都知道了它也不是创新,哪有说都知道的创新,对吧?

By definition.

最后一个话题,我了解到你在当腾讯美国总经理的时候就留长发了,然后像个摇滚明星,事实上也确实组建过摇滚乐队,然后还是第一批去 Burning Man 火人节的中国人,所以我想问一下,现在还玩不玩摇滚,以及说摇滚对自己的影响是什么?

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现在没时间了,以前在大学也没怎么上课,一方面在创业,有好几个公司,一方面就是搞搞音乐,玩玩这些什么的,也是很深远。 当然喜欢摇滚的原因实际上是,它是一个自由精神,而且是自由精神,但是不是那种出世的,脱世躲避的自由精神。

One important thing about Yaoguang is that it's very into the world. For example, Bob Dylan or whoever, he talked about many things that are related to the era and the political ideas. It's not like, "I'll just sing a hymn and hide." So it has a great impact on me. It's great that he talked about the idea of freedom. Why did he go to Berkeley? Berkeley is the world's most liberal forum and the stupidest school. The first school to be free.

I think this is the spirit of exploration. Another thing is that I think the long hair is half the relationship with rock music. The other half is a statement. This statement is that I don't want to go on the long road. I don't have to take something that should be like this or call it social norm. I think in this society, people are often imprisoned here. You should be like this. You have to be like this.

These are all social norms. My statement is that you don't need to tell me. You look at my long hair like this, I don't have social norms. Don't tell me these things. I think it's quite effective. Okay, let's go back to Payal. Brad, please summarize or add something.

To sum up, my intention and motivation for Pair is to help more D2C brands have their own place to grow. And the beauty of this world is because of diversification. But small D2C brands are basically only relying on ads and channels to be killed by big brands. I don't want this world to become like that. Everyone can only use 保洁, only Starbucks can go out, right?

没有多元化的成长的土壤和空间。 所以在这个角度上, 第一,中国的生产供应制造能力, 大家无可置疑,都已经非常好,世界一流。 第二,缺乏的是渠道和品牌的建设。 最佳的机会和最好的渠道, 我相信也无可置疑,就是社交平台。 无论是社交广告也好,还是红人的分享, 这些都是必然要过的路径。 但我希望鼓励大家也是多想一想, 分享了这么多以前的想法, 和想法,

包括一些分析啊 对吧 就是出海的 D2C 品牌 咱不应该去玩人家的游戏 如果他们是在社交上面 说找红人 做媒体 打广告 做个独立战 对吧 去 play others game 一般不太会赢 一定是要是 play different game 去定一些新的交易规则 这个才是有最大的机会 以前有个说法说 我可以赢象棋冠军 也可以赢

网球冠军对吧 方法是什么呢 是跟象棋冠军打网球 跟网球冠军下象棋 而不能直接去弄对吧

But why do I say there is a great opportunity here? It's also why Pear was established. We hope to provide this technology platform to bring the social e-commerce closed-door, red-collar marketing system and content marketing to the European and American markets. This is a core competitive thing that can make it to the top. Of course, Pear hopes everyone will choose Pear to let us become your

The core discussion this time is to encourage everyone to think about some innovative ways, not to play other people's games. It should let the market build a high-end and low-end. Now this is already the current state, and it has been fully verified. But I think it's not enough to try now. Instead, it's just to go to the headwind and think about how to get into Costco. This kind of thing has been done well.

I don't think this is a core competitiveness. I just mentioned some more successful companies, such as Xiyin. If Xiyin just says, "I'll try to squeeze into Walmart and sell cheaper than others," there will be no interest today. If Anchor also goes this way, there will be no Anchor.

If I only give the Chinese a few whiteboards, there will be no big rivers. So I have a strong belief in these. China will release many international brands. And in the future, many of them will be 100-year-old stores. This is definitely going to happen. But who will go out of this way? I believe that product power is one aspect. On the other hand, it is also about the core. Why did my previous relatives only earn 8% or 5%? Because they have no channels and no brand. Where is the channel brand established?

社交媒体社交媒体建立的方法是什么目前的三班府是独立站买社交广告加网红分享对吧这三班府该不该做该做因为他已经成熟了太快但是应该想一想说哪里能弯道超车 玩到超车就是社交电商加上火轮带火这点鼓励大家多思考也预祝大家能成功

Welcome to try to work with Payal. They are also trying to get in touch with some brands. They have successfully worked with many successful brands. They have given us a lot of support. You can search for Payal.us and try to contact them. Of course, you can also contact us directly. We are also willing to contact you if there is a suitable opportunity.

Thank you, Brad. It's late night now. We had a very intimate and sincere conversation. We had a lot of dry goods, a lot of real feelings, and a lot of insights. We all benefited a lot. It was a very rare opportunity. Thank you, Brad, for your time today. Thank you for sharing.

感谢大家的收听 感谢 Bride 的时间 谢谢 拜拜 拜拜 拜拜 拜拜

Before you call him a man, how many seas must a white dove sail before she sleeps in the sand? How many times must a cannonball fly before they're forebanned? The answer, my friend, is blowing. The answer is blowing.

How many years can a mountain exist before it's washed to the sea? How many years can some people exist before they're allowed to be free? How many times can a man turn his head and pretend that he just doesn't see?

The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind. How many times must a man look up before he really sees the sky? How many ears must one person have before he can hear people cry?

How many deaths will it take till you know that too many people have died? The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind. The answer is blowing. The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind. The answer is blowing in the wind.