How Women in HVAC Are Gaining Respect by Climbing Roofs and Rejecting Generic Sales – Chloe Glynn Part 2
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AC SmartSeal, the professional's choice. All right, guys. So if you enjoyed the first episode with Chloe, she's back again for part two. And the conversation continues around the commercial world and maintenance and why it's important, this and that. So we're going to get back to it real quick. This is the HVAC Know It All podcast. I'm your host, Gary McCready.

This podcast is sponsored by Master and if you guys are looking for additional training, commercial and residential training, reach out to your local rep because here in Ontario and even out west they have training facilities and they are doing consistent and constant training on different things, commercial and residential. So check them out guys, check out master.ca. Welcome to the HVAC Know It All Podcast.

Recorded from a basement somewhere in Toronto, Canada. Your host and HVAC tech, Gary McCready, will take you on a deep dive into the industry discussing all things HVAC. From storytelling to technical discussion. Enjoy the show.

You're in an industry that is dominated by males. And I mean, I don't, are you on Instagram and stuff like that? Do you see like the rise of the females in the trades, plumbing, HVAC? Like, you know what I mean? You see the rise of this and it's, I've seen it happen like on Instagram, even TikTok now and stuff like that. There's more and more females exposing themselves in these places. And people are like, whoa, like taking notice, right? So, and I've heard a lot of horror stories. I've heard a lot of horror stories where the,

especially years ago, not so much now, but maybe 20, maybe 15, 20 years ago or so when it was newer for males to see a female on a job site or as a coworker changing a compressor with them or changing a heat exchanger with them. The initial reaction from the male counterparts was it

something that was positive, negative, or is it something like it was just kind of neutral and you had to work your way through? I think it varies case by case quite a bit. I still sometimes walk in and they are standoffish to me. Some people want to see you win more than the average person because they like that you're a woman trying to break into a predominantly male field and they understand that there's probably some

you know, uphill challenges to that, which I can appreciate. I would say the only thing that really happens differently for me is sometimes people just question me technically more often than they might a male just because they're trying to make sure that what I'm putting together, because I don't necessarily do like cookie cutter style agreements. It's very much based on

like age of equipment, I'm big on not overselling. If you have a bunch of units that are for some reason 20 to 25 years old, like does doing quarterly maintenance make sense? Maybe not, maybe semi-annual. And then you take those two other visits where you would have paid and set it aside for capital planning. So I'm very much based on the application in this specific facility rather than like, oh, well technically you could always do this. Yeah, but maybe it's not the best fit. So I think just understanding that when you're looking at it,

more of like a consulting type of like interaction with them rather than like, well, there's quarterly and semi-annual and full service if you want it. I'm going to put together all three. Like, I feel like that doesn't come off very well unless they're asking for that. And that's what they, you know, they want. But I think just as a girl understanding, you know, it's all the same playing field. If you don't act like you're some large outlier in the field, you're

I haven't seen, like, a really dramatic, I would say, negative reaction to me. Again, there's always a few. And honestly, if they don't want to work with a girl, like, I'm not offended by that. That's fine. You're more comfortable with somebody who's been doing it for 15 years. As long as you have a valid reason why, then...

I'm cool with that. Well, that's a good attitude to have. Like who cares, right? Who cares if they don't want to work with me, then fine. And as long as it doesn't, you don't let it get to you. But you said something that stood out to me. You don't sell cookie cutter products.

maintenance plans or programs. And I think that honestly, I wish I met more people like that in the trade because I worked with people for many, many years and they sold cookie cutter maintenance. They would, they would get sent, sent a list of equipment and go, okay, all right. 20 minutes per unit.

blah, blah, blah, blah. There you go. Four times per year. And then you get on site and one of the pieces of equipment takes you 20 minutes to get to and you got to carry like a hundred filters to it. Yeah. Did you take this into account when you, when you price your maintenance? Probably not. So,

I've always hated the people that will not take the time, go to facility, walk around it, get pointed out to by the facility manager, whoever it is. Hey, these are the pieces of equipment I want you to service. And then you go, wow, if I quoted that from paper, I would have quoted that wrong because you're going to, my technician's going to need an extra 40 hours on top of what I would have quoted just to get to all the different areas. And plus you could have, you could have a high security area where, I mean, or pharma, like I worked in pharma.

And sometimes like just to get into a specific area, you're waiting for somebody that's free to take you there. Then you got to put on masks and you got to double up like bunny suits and boots and this and that. And then by the time you're in there, you're like two hours in, then you got to come out and take it all off. And then you got to write a report and like, wow, four hours. And I, I just basically checked one little thing in that one room. And these are the types of things that people like yourself need to know in order to

price maintenance program correctly. So I'm so glad you said that you don't do cookie cutter programs. Yeah. The not walking through, I like sometimes people will offer me that and I say like, that's fine if you want to offer me an equipment list, but I want to double check few reasons.

It depends on the last time it was updated. So you could have had new equipment, switched out equipment. A lot of times, sometimes things are down and they don't want it on there anymore. And then my price might be higher than somebody else because I didn't see it. I also think it builds like grit between you and the customer. Like if I'm up there on the roof with you and we're doing this thing for an hour and making sure, you know, that we're hitting every piece of equipment, helps the tech out, helps service manager out. But it also, you know, builds,

you feel they feel more like you guys are on the same level you're not just some like salesperson that's not gonna go climb up a ladder and go on the roof

I also think the technicians respect you more because sometimes I think the relationship between technicians and salespeople, you know, if you're setting up a technician to do a survey for you, like, what does that say about how you guys collaborate? I don't know. Sometimes it's fine depending on, you know, the size of the account. But I always said it said more if you were a salesperson that did perform the walkthrough yourself. Yeah. Hey, listen.

If somebody sent me to do, uh, they said, here, take this equipment list and building, and it's all been priced out. And if I called the person that did it and I said to them, Hey, um, for example, where is such and such on the list? I don't, I don't know where it is. And they said to me, Oh, I don't know. I was never there. Go find it.

But if they said to me, oh yeah, it's through that door on the second floor because I found it on my walkthrough, I'd be like, right on, thank you very much. And that's the respect that I think you're talking about, that the technician passes on to the salesperson. Because there is always a disconnect between sales and the technician, dispatch, the technician, even the service managers or bosses or owners of the company.

And it seems to me like it was, yeah, it's the salesman's fault. No, it's the technician's fault. They installed it wrong, but the salesman measured it wrong. But if we collaborate together and don't point fingers and everybody takes accountability for their own actions, and I think we'll be better off. And it sounds like that's what you're doing. So you got no problem climbing ladders whatsoever? Like nothing like that? The only thing people say to me sometimes, so if I'm going to a site like...

on site, I'm in steel toe boots, usually like a polo or a t-shirt. But if I'm on an office setting, sometimes I'm in like dress pants and high heels and whatever. And people are like, by the way, you know, you can't go on a roof in that. I'm like, yeah, I'm not going to go puncture the roof with my high heel. Thank you for reminding me, even though I would know I've known this for four years. But so that's the only thing I sometimes get, which now it makes me laugh. But

Yeah, I'm up on the roofs in the mechanical rooms. Like just before we started this, I was in a high rise in the South Loop of Chicago looking at a cooling tower, good old BAC, some boilers. I also think understanding how the building is set up too. Like, for example, they were like, oh, we only want this on it. And then I saw, I was like, well, you have a dehumidifier unit. I'm like, wait a minute. I go, do you guys have an indoor pool? They're like, yeah. And I'm like, okay.

That makes sense. But I would never have known where that applied to. And I think anyone knows who deals with pools inside, they're a little difficult or they can be. Yeah. So seeing that, like, I would have never thought to ask that if, if I had just seen a list of that was like a few boilers, a water heater, uh, the cooling tower, you know, again, they had amenity spaces. So I'm like, okay, is there air handlers that are feeding them out of your space? Yeah, there is. Okay. I wouldn't know to ask those unless I saw the building. Right. Yeah.

For sure. For sure. So, I mean, you said you've been only doing this for four years. Is that what you said there? Yep. Four years. Wow. Well, I mean...

The way you talk, Chloe, like the terminology, it sounds like you've been doing this for a very long time. So that I got to I got to commend you for that because you sound like a top notch pro that's that's been doing this for a very long time. So that's that's a testament to yourself. If you're going to give some advice to some people like that might want to get into sales for commercial or or maintenance, for example.

Can you give us some? I know you've been kind of doing that through this conversation, but if there's any piece of advice you want to throw out there, go ahead. Yeah, I would think reputation matters. I think people underestimate how many people know each other within heating and cooling, specifically engineers and facility directors. They all move around a lot.

They all communicate to each other because if they have an issue, somebody else also probably has an issue that they know. So I think reputation matters a lot. My job is substantially easier when I have an account who, if I need someone to call them to see what it's like to work with me, that they'll rave about me. That's made a big difference for me.

Two, I wouldn't underestimate branding yourself. So I use LinkedIn as my main outlet for branding. And my boss always jokes about this too. But when I go to events, people are like, oh, there's that LinkedIn girl. There's that HVAC girl. There's that HVAC girl. That's my HVAC girl I use. And as corny as it sounds, you know, like posting, even when I was not getting any interaction, which the first year was pretty rough.

I mean, like you're posting and like three people like it and you're like, it's two of them you work with. So it's like, okay. I am so happy I stuck through that, even though it was not very fulfilling to start with. Because now the facial recognition of people seeing me or when they think of heating and cooling, they associate it with me also is really helpful. So I think building a brand around that has been something that

if salespeople, you know, tuned more into, they'd have a lot easier time selling. Um, but I think just always learning, like admitting when you don't know something, I'm pretty, um, cut and dry, very straightforward. I'll tell people how, how it is, which some people like, some people don't like, but at least I'm honest. Um, I think I prefer that. Yeah. Honesty.

within this industry is the best because I don't think anyone's going to dock somebody for saying they don't know it and then going and getting the information. And also, then you learn. So the next time somebody asks you that question, you have the information. So don't take a scenario where you don't know something and you're like, oh, that's fine. I'll just pass it off to John Doe who does know it and then they could just talk about it. Like, ask why. So being curious, I think, is something that

If you think you know it all, you never do. I mean, hey, the name of this podcast is HVAC. I know, I thought I'd tie it in. But I think that's important and I think people underestimate that too. Yeah, well, it's true what you said. Well, at least it is for me. I would rather someone tell me

the straight up truth, even if it hurt my feelings, because what's the point? What's the point in masking it? And I mean, we've all been in the position and I mean, this is kind of off topic. It's kind of funny. We've all been in the position where you're someone's about to go do something important and

And you look at them and they got something hanging out of their nose. And you're like, do I tell them? Do I not tell them? Like, I'll be the guy. Hey, like you got something hanging out your nose, but you better go, you better go deal with that because other, but imagine you didn't. And he went up on the stage and he's talking to people and he's got this thing hanging out of his nose and be like, well, why the, why the heck didn't you tell me? Right. So I always find like nowadays wisdom comes with time and experiences and stuff like that. And I find that being as,

brutally honest as you can with people is the best route because it's always then you don't ever have this like twisted up feeling about should I have said this or said that or and you don't get caught up in your own stories. It's just blatant honesty to every single person that you come in contact with. So I like that approach. The fact that you brought up branding yourself.

I've talked about this for ages because I started to brand myself nine years ago, starting with Facebook and Instagram and TikTok and LinkedIn and all those kinds of places. And it's worked out for me, right? It's something that I was never comfortable with. I wasn't the guy that would

want to be on camera and make podcasts and stuff like that. I had to get over that hump. I had to get, um, used to it. I had to get used to my own hearing my own voice when I edited and seeing my own face on pictures and videos. And now I'm used to it, but I've tried to convince other people become a brand and, and they don't get it like older, older technicians in the trade. I had to fight. I had this fight one time with this guy. He was like, and it's probably fifties or whatever. Um,

It was a post about branding yourself and how to make yourself into a brand. And he's like, I'm not a brand. I'm a technician. I fix things. I go, but essentially you're a brand because you have a way of doing things. You have a certain amount of knowledge. You present yourself a certain way. So realistically, you are a brand, whether you like it or not. You're on social media.

I mean, the fact that you have a social media personal account tells me that you're a brand because you got a profile picture and a name. And I mean, that's the way I see it. So you're right. Branding yourself correctly to get exposure can create opportunity for yourself. And there's all kinds of positives that can come with it if you do it right. Right. Would you agree with that? Yeah, I would agree. I actually recently did a presentation for...

for ServiceLogic for new maintenance sales reps about personal branding. And I think where people get tripped up about it is

their age, the era they grew up in. They're like, well, this is new. And I wasn't a part of that. And nobody's going to care if I post or want to see it. And I disagree. I just, I blatantly disagree with that. And I also think it is important to choose what your brand is. And I explained this in my presentation about, you know, like I take pictures with heating and cooling equipment a lot of the time, or I'll take like really cool city shots because I'm in the

in the downtown market or when I do multi-building walkthroughs, like I want those huge old like Kiwani steam boilers, you know? So I'm letting people know that I'm there, right? Do I think a 50-year-old guy who's been an HVAC for 25 years should go post a selfie with a boiler? I don't know. You know, the reaction would probably be different.

But I'm like, your skill set is your knowledge. So sharing that knowledge online or taking a picture of you with one of your clients on the golf course, like people can relate to that. So I think just changing the mindset of you don't have to fit into this. You're not you're not going to be the same brand as me. And that's OK. But if you can make your job.

a little bit easier by having this online presence that people know you as that HVAC guy that maybe you're, you have a ton of boiler knowledge over the years or industry knowledge on like how a manufacturing company operates or,

Tony Mormino, I believe his last name is. He does a really good job of that. Yeah. So like the small clips of information on, you know, I'm like, you could be an information resource for people. You don't have to do like a very baseline post. And I think people forget that they get to decide what the brand is. You don't have to fit into whatever you think someone would want to see. It's like, try different stuff, see what sticks. Yeah.

And then you can adjust it as you go. So I talked quite a bit about that. And it was actually really cool because after that presentation...

I saw a bunch of people start posting on LinkedIn after it and people that were a little bit older that I like when I was doing the presentation I would see their face I'm like these people are like I'm never doing this which is fine that's okay it's not going to resonate with everybody I went out like two weeks later and I saw like three of their posts and I'm like okay so you see and then they got interactions I'm like because if you're connecting with people that you want to

to be a client with, you know, of yours, how are they going to, you know, know when you're calling? Like, yeah, you just connected with them and they saw your name once maybe, you know, they're not going to have name recognition then it's being active. And it's, it's like another touch point, you know, so that when something goes wrong or they need something that your name has popped up so many times, um,

associated with heating and cooling that they feel the need to one talk to you or if you reach out they're like oh they feel much more comfortable with you because they feel like they know you to a certain extent it's it's 100 true what you're saying it's a generational thing too i mean the generation i'm gen x and when i started to get online instagram was just starting to become like a really popular thing it was already out in there for a few years but when i decided to do it

it was starting to get really popular at the time. I think I just caught it at the right time for me anyway. Like I'm 46, like I'm not young, but I'm not old. So for me, it was like,

let's just do this thing. I can see if you're like 55, 60 and trying to, trying to do it, it might be a little bit different and you might have some hesitation around it. Like, but whatever. But I mean, like you're like, what generation are you, Chloe? So I'm 24. Okay. So I think I'm Gen Z. So all of this is right in your wheelhouse, right? Because my, my kids are,

They want Instagram and Facebook and Snapchat. They want everything. They want to be included on all these things. I'm like, guys, my youngest is nine. I'm like, slow down, bud. I mean, you don't need to be on eight different social media platforms. You're too young for that. But that's what they want. Kids these days, they all want to be YouTube stars. They all want to be, you know what I mean? They think that's the coolest thing ever. And these young kids see that

Being a brand, a self-made brand has value to it because they're seeing other people do the same thing. And I've seen value from it for a long time.

And it's one of those conversations that's tough to have with like the older generation, like the baby boomer generation or the older Gen Xs. It's preference really, I think. Right. I think it's definitely preference. Something I've also seen with my generation. So I'm very particular on my type of posting. Like I do zero like personal posting. Like if you ever look at my posts, they're very much geared towards work.

And mechanical. Like, it's very clear what I'm doing, how I'm doing it, where I'm doing it. And I find it interesting. I think sometimes people in my generation make things a little too personal. Like, they don't need to know that you cried before you walked up on that roof because you're having something going on. So sometimes I think my generation gets a little too personal. And by the way, I have not cried before I walked out of a roof. That's just an example. But

I usually cry when I'm on the roof. On the roof or after, yes. It's one of... Because, of course, I go on a white rooftop and forget to bring sunglasses. So it's one of those things, though, where I don't... When building a brand, you do want something to be personal, but you don't need to let everybody know your life details. And I think choosing...

Technically, all platforms are good because all publicity is good publicity, they say. But if you're looking for a target audience in a professional matter, I still think LinkedIn is the best source for that when it comes to like a sales perspective, because I could go on LinkedIn and look up, you know, chief engineer Chicago.

And then my target market becomes, you know, highly specified rather than mass broadcasting. So depending on like what your end goal is, I think paying attention to what platform you use is pretty important. Yeah, for sure.

Cool. So we've been on for about an hour, so we can leave it at that. I'd love to have you back on at some point. But the one last question I'll ask you is, you've been doing this for four years now. Where do you see yourself in the next four? Do you see yourself doing the same thing? Or do you see yourself expanding a little bit and taking on some different roles or tasks? Yeah, that's a good question. I get asked that really often. And I don't know if I know yet.

A lot of times I get asked about like eventually go to the project side of things. Maybe I like, you know, this part where I am active in heating and cooling and I like the mechanical world. But I also like teaching, not technical, not technical teaching, but teaching, you know, like sales aspects of how to be successful within projects.

the mechanical contracting world and like communicating that to people. I also like advocating for the trades quite a bit because I think as I'm not in a union, but I think the trades are dying a little bit.

And if I can broadcast that more, I think that would be impactful. So maybe heading more towards like advocacy for that would be something I would look to do in the future. I actually go back to my old high school once a year. Oh, cool. I talk to their work study program, which are kids who are working. And I talk about how one, I didn't go to college and I still I'm not on the streets. I say, yeah, we're homeless because sometimes they market it that way.

and the importance of trades. So I've helped two to three kids get into trades because a lot of them don't know where to start. They're like, well, I want to be a plumber.

I'm like, okay, that's this union. This is what you would do. This is who I know there. And then you could help them like transition into understanding how that would start. I think a lot of kids don't know how to even get into the trades because it's not really marketed to them anymore. Yeah. It's getting better, the marketing of the trades and hopefully it continues to get better, but yeah, cool. Well, thank you very much, Chloe. I really appreciate the conversation. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Not a problem.