Chris Cuomo
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So here are on a wednesday, and Chris is, como is sitting in my living room. Now, why is Chris cormon sitting in my living room formally, if CNN? Well, i'd never met Chris combo before today.

And of course, four years. I was incredibly mean to Chris combo on T. V. why? I can't really say now, but i'll say this. He was one of the very first people to call me completely out of the blue. No idea how I got my number after I left my job last spring.

And that began a series of conversations, very long conversations, in which I discovered that Christmas is a really interesting person and that we disagree some things, we don't disagree on everything at all. And I thought, wow, I wonder how many other people, like Chris, more out there, people i've dismissed marked because we disagree, ed, on some things, who actually, if you got to know that you might learn something. So that might be a useful exercise. And so with that, a conversation with Chris como begins. Chris, thank you for so one of the reasons, I think that you called me was because we had such similar lives and you're on a few people kind of understand in both of us um spent decades in one world were exiled from IT uh and I think the questions .

like what if we learn from this you first i'm still trying to figure that out uh and I knew was important to reach out when you are going through your exit. Let's call IT and uh because I knew the pain of IT and I knew the chAllenge of IT and everything is different but I do believe that one of the lessons i've learned is you have to think about how other people are being affected by situations, especially once you have pain in your own life, and doesn't matter what you agree with, what you like, what you don't like. It's all gotten so far removed from humanity that the idea that I don't like to talk across takes a bite out of my ass on the show.

I think got good reason not to like. I think that that would be fair but that .

that means that this is not somebody who you should care about as a human being. And uh, I feel like our culture isn't working anymore, that everybody retreats with their own. And as a result, everybody is against one another for the same kinds of reasons and it's not working.

And if it's not working, then weren't we're trying something different? Why wouldn't I reach out to somebody who has a family and who has a following and is dealing with a hard time to see if I can help and see what's going on in their life and what they're about? And I was concerned about calling you at first, as I thought you might be thinking that this is like a spite phone call or something you know I mean or be like why you call me, what do you want to gloat or something know I didn't want to make anything worse for you um but as you say, there's such tremendous power and .

conversation yes.

we only know what we're told about people and the snipers that people want us to see in the context. And i'm not saying that like you know, you're one benefit of context away from never of saying anything that I don't think you should say. But what is lost by doing this? What what what is lost by this? How can this not be helpful to sit across from somebody and talk to them instead of about them?

So I I of course, I couldn't agree with you more, which is why we're here and and I think both of had tried to talk directly to people that we disagree with legitimation some things, but because it's it's a really useful and important experience. So why doesn't IT happen? IT does make you kind of wonder maybe there are forces trying to prevent those conversations and what what's the motive that .

I call the game? You and I have been in the game for a long time. And whether you like IT or not, whether you mean IT or not, you wind up playing the game.

You can, uh, especially with the platform that you had, you want to a potentially pick insight and you wind up having agendas either that present themselves to you or foist ted upon you. But either way, you wind up in the same place. And in doing that, IT becomes habit.

It's what people are celebrating around you is what you see around you. People start to come after you now you have a natural enemy. These people, i'm resistance to them because they are attacking what i'm saying and they are getting IT wrong.

They're getting IT right. And I still don't like IT. That's the the culture and that's what the media enforces.

We are not supposed to be doing this. I am doing something bad right now, not just wrong. This is bad morning. I am giving a platform.

That's the new word for censoring, right? Your point, giving talker a cross in a platform i'm talking to him about who is what he's about, why he does what he does, why he's bad and that's the end of the analysis. But look where it's got this. Nobody talks to each other anymore. You've got politicians resigning because they say, yeah, turns out nobody really wants us to do anything here but fight and gonna enough i'm gonna go woman who ever thought we would see and this and yet nobody's trying to remedy IT.

I think it's really hard. And the one way in which I really sympathize with you and I said this in public um at the time, is that you were attacked and I don't know the details I ask you to reveal them but felt like you are fired because you remained close your brother who was governor of new york um and he was going through a bunch of stuff he had left office and you were still talking to and you like we're allowed to and might take on IT from a distance knowing neither you know or your brother was you gotta stick with your brother.

Your brother and that obligation supercedes ds all others because that's your family. That's like a moral obligation. My brother committed triple murder.

I'd be against triple murder, but I would never bit. And my brother is my brother. To anybody who says your obligation to me overrides observation to your own brother, that person's evil. That's how I feel about IT and I felt like they were doing that to you. That was just my perspective from .

watching people feel differently about family um which was somewhat of a new concept for me. I don't think what way I had a big shot media person say to me in an interview on their platform, I would not have helped my brother, not if I would have conflicted with my ethical obligations. Uh, as a journalist.

what are your career ambitions?

What they are really said, well, disgusting either way uh, and I said, well, first table IT IT didn't because I didn't cover my brother's situation on my show. I ve never had the audience give me a hard time until they started hearing things in the media that didn't square with what they had thought but look.

but can I see if you ever said, I don't know who you're talking about IT could have been any of them because they all have the same view. But there are the moral criminals as far as i'm concerned. If someone is going to say I would sell out my brother because my boss wanted me to, what do you listen to yourself? Like that's the ultimate betrayal.

Look, people can have their own .

ethics and .

standard for me. IT was more uh I got myself into the situation I didn't see coming and um I thought and my therapies like laughs when I say this live with with me all through this. He's been like a life coach to me for a really long time great guy my life I never say his name is who lose all of patients if anybody knows his work with me but um he was like, what you mean you didn't see this coming.

The media was all over your brother. They wanted them to go down. They wanted you to go down. They hate you.

What was happening during the pandemic with you having him on the show and all the admiration you guys are getting? This is a jealous business. And I hear that, I understand that, but I don't want to accept IT.

And what I have decided was, look, I didn't have any control over how getting fired happened. All I control is what I do next. And I tried to get myself into that place. And that's what made me call you, is that that was so hard, was so hard for me to see all the stuff that I had worked so hard on, and I had valued so greatly, just vanish.

And well, now what am I? And now what do I do? And now is, is, is IT over for me, like, is that IT? I'll never be number one on a huge platform again.

So who what am I about? What do I do? Of course, like you, I love my wife.

I love my kids. I love my family. I love the family that I choose, my people and there for them.

I'm a great friend in crisis. I'm great. I'm not great when things are good, but i'm a great friend in crisis. And I had to really think about things.

I'd never thought about him again before, and I wanted to check in with you about that to see how you are negotiating that space um because I had been so painful but when I met you and you know you should we should talk about this you were not the way I was you were a brilliant. You were laughing and you were, yeah, well, let me tell you that was a favor to me. And this is going to be OK.

I'm going to be fine 啊。 This is a weird world. And now I know things I didn't know before.

yeah. And I thought that that was a real blessing for you. What did you figure out that you didn't know before?

Well, I sort, I mean, I would just say, you know, i'd loved working there. Was there fourteen years? They were always nice to be. They never told me want to say so.

It's on attack on them to say that I was him in by the fact that I worked for someone else and that's just the nature of the relationship. No matter how free you think you are, part of you is assessing like, well, I I actually am employee. I do have a boss and I knew that they disagree with me on a bunch of big topics um into the great read.

They never try to change my view of on those topics and I would say that now you know even not there anymore. Um good for them but you aren't fully free if you work for someone else like that's how I felt about IT and I just had reaches time. My life, I thought, is always really important things going on.

I want to be as honest as I can possible be at all times. And that was a hindrance to me. So I and I also had this kind of supernatural sense to me, fine.

And that in the end, you know, you die anyway. So what are you afraid of exactly? Uh, and I also done IT for too long, you know too long too wrong.

Same gig, it's good to be and I have been fired before a couple of times so it's going to be fired because IT brings you low and you don't become the overbearing ashok that every TV person is on some level minority and that but can check a little bit real. Public humiliation is really important for a man. I would recommend IT to all men.

And so I was very happy from day one. But IT was a different, maybe a different time in my life or something. No, I was ready for IT.

Everybody who I reached out to about you said, you know, he's changed. He's different because of this and when I spoke to you recently, not the beginning, but recently, you said, yeah, i'm not that guy anymore. What what does that mean for?

Well, I just I mean, I had I don't think I was playing a role ever. Um I was definitely used by your former employer and mind C N N to flag for the iraq war. And I allowed that without ever know was happening and I was always bitter about that in the way that you are when you've done something wrong.

No word, if you fight with your wife and it's one hundred percent of her fault, you're not that mad. But if it's really you're fault than your extra because your matter yourself in that I I been made of myself for twenty years over the things that I said and was pushed into saying promoting the iraq war, which is totally indefensible in opinion now. so.

Uh.

but other that I have always, I think in my self, but I just do reach a station life. I don't I don't feel like I have anything to prove, and I don't need to be nasty to people. I've done that.

I have A P, H, D. In IT. You are probably the last personal was really, really sorry.

You got a and s.

so I don't go into things like, I just talk to putin. And if you gotta be rough on putin, actually, you're not my boss. I can do.

I want, yeah, you go there and til putin, you're a, you're a monster. Okay, what do we get out of that? So I can like proof that i'm a tough guy.

I don't need to prove that i'm not secure about that. I'm tough enough anyway, uh, so that, you know, I just don't have a chip of my shoulder at all about any of that. I just don't care.

I've got nothing to hide and nothing to prove. And I just want to help people talk because I think it's interesting that is important to hear people talk. And so I can kind of pull myself out of IT more than I was able to before.

If you're thirty one and try to make an T, V, you know, you sort of your itching for a confrontation to show your skills. I can win. It's like i've done that.

I just not not interested in that. It's totally points. I don't listen any interesting information.

It's all about me and my performance and I knew you know talking about because you live the life, but there's a lot of pressure on you to make a moment. And now i'm like, talk life had a lot of moments. You can look on youtube if you want.

So do you feel that when you when you look at how you use to do IT versus how you doing IT, now was IT a function of this will work. How much of IT was this is how I feel, and how much of IT was this will be funny, or this .

will resonate, this will land, this will get click an, i've always an instant yer. And the only times i've ve gone really wrong, as with the iraq war, was when I and I suppressed my instincts and joined to heard. That was really the last time, two thousand and two, that I did that.

Now somebody gives you that answer. You know, the the follow up is, what do you mean? You're a big boy.

You're a smart guy. You supposed to be an intellectual. You ve got duped by people in a news room .

to be I got by someone in the bush administration.

So wasn't sein IT was not .

seeing in but I was not to show that was inherently partisan levers, right? Republican is and the republicans were in favor of of invading iraq and the democrats were opposed. Now of course, it's inverted completely, but at the time that was so so there was on the one hand, I don't want to be on the same side as like barbari of berkeley ah i'm still not on her side of most things um and on the other side, I had these people from the bush ministration saying to me actually, we have a lot of intel that we can't give you but is totally real.

And my question my questions are always the dom's possible questions like what is that I have to do with nine eleven? Like what like explained to me so I understand, like we can only tell you. So I just went to run with that anyway, it's not that interesting. I think a lot of people did the same.

but I lose a big deal though. Yeah, just died, right? But IT was such a big deal because IT changed things.

One, congress would never own violence again. No, they would never vote as the constitution demands. Oh yeah, they gave IT to presidents and right in.

And they are, anyone's gona take the power, right? You're in the power game, your president, you want to give me power as congress. I'll take IT. And we saw with bush, we saw with clinton, we saw with bush, we saw with obama. They all take the power.

Give up the power is like you .

will never get back you and they don't want to back. They won't even redo the A, U M, F. So what changed then?

You're a bitch, i'm sorry.

What you all again the benefit of having a boss the that what change the dynamic one was congress gone to own their responsibility anymore i'll let the executive go with that and if the president screwed up, its on them and if IT goes well, we all win. great. Second thing that changed was IT started to be OK to give bullshit rationals for military action. Oh, we have because nine, eleven, we went to the wrong country and everybody was so angry that if you tell me the guy who did IT isn't there, i'm not asking any .

other questions. We wouldn't need only for sure.

And if we had had these, then we would have what we're seeing in the middle east right now and what's happening in this country where people be like, wow, what are you doing? Influence a, what are you doing in mozo? We we are the bad guys know who are these, right? But they didn't have the exposure. So that really was a very formative experience um for us now you .

felt I mean, you must have felt IT over the years.

Something big happens my and national life, yes oh yeah, yeah. Look, I am what they call hard to manage. okay? And that used to bother me.

I used to be, no, I want, I want to be a team player on a team person. I like being part of a group. I like that, and i'm not hard to manager.

I just wanted know why you want me to do, what you want me to do. I'll do anything, i'll go anywhere, i'll put myself in any kind of danger. If I think it's important for people to understand and I have the ability to go and they don't, i'll go um but I want to know why. I want to know why it's worth IT.

And you know some people that they don't like the questions, uh, just do what I told you to do me puppet, you know just this is your job as you go where I tell you to go um this is what we're gone to do tonight so I asking so many questions, I I get that and I get why that would be frustrating for a manager. And but now I am present and people who know me know it's coming from a good place. I'm not a dev.

Not difficult. No reason I just won. I have such a strong sense of purpose, and living through nine eleven taught me such hard, bad lessons about holy shit.

You you supposed to check power. You've got this totally wrong. You did not go after these people the way you were supposed to.

And you didn't do IT for the wrong reasons, which were one you were covering IT, right? And so, you know, you kind of into the continuation game and the american people didn't want you checking IT. Do you remember.

are you figure that patriots is specifically?

Well, no. Before when bush said, hey, stop asking all these questions about the weapons of mass production in the yellow cake, you started ting to create bad conditions on the ground for our fighting men and women. And the american people stopped watching the news.

And I remember I was at A, B. C. And they stopped watching because that seemed like we were jeopardizing our troops.

And IT worked, and everybody pulled back on that and just covered the war. And we all went or ambit training, and everybody went over there, did IT. And I never forgot that.

And that's why i'm always chasing members of congress about something that everybody thinks is a stupid in the weed issue, which is, hey, why want you do a vote on this? Want to vote on give israel why you vote on what we're giving ukraine, why you vote on what we just did uh, when the hook is were attacking us. Aren't you voting on that? Why did you vote on when trump a bomb in syria? Why that's not a part of america.

It's not an immediate interest for us. That's personal to us in our safety. I'm sure it's strategic, but that's all the world powers act is about.

That's not what the A U methods about that, not all the constitutions about. And they always brush IT off. They always brushed off because that's where we are now. We are stuck in the game. That's about nothing but advantage.

And I had time to think about all this when I got you can, and to go back and look at what i've been um about and what I had done and what I had not done. And if if I were gonna come back because you know you're tougher than I am not physically, I would literally twist you like a band. But, but, but you are you, you had more resilience about this than I did.

I still feel like i'm on one nie in getting back up. And what motivated me to come back with two things, three things. One, my wife told me, had to.

Two, you know, he was like, you got get up and, you know, we ve got kids. You've got to get up. You've got to do something with your life that is helping people and making something of this place.

That's what we're supposed to be about. You are not about that right now. You are a for you, a space rug right now.

That's what you are. You are two hundred and thirty pound lump on the floor. Get up. Do something with your life. Um OK uh, so was any response okay? Um my response was get away from me in my bottle.

More question .

years more. Um my response was that I was embarrassed and I knew he was right. But sometimes you know what's right. But you don't you don't have the energy, the will or the self confidence or belief to do IT. So if I were gonna get back into this because there's such a Price for entry.

And another thing, you know, I was thinking when I was walk around outside, you know, you got security outside your house. And I was thinking to myself, god, I know what this is about. You know, your kids are old, they are lucky for you, but there are still, they're still aware.

They are still exposed. And I put my family through so much that I didn't understand that I was doing at the time, because I blind us on, got to help enter, this is wrong. I got to help.

I wasn't thinking that my son was having a deal with stuff. My daughters, my daughter making up accounts online to defend their uncle, you, me, my wife. So deal with all those things is fine.

First for good for her.

Now they are good kids. They're good kids. They got a good genetic selection, got a couple of my good genes, and they have got mostly their mom.

So they are good shape. But I said, I want to come back. I want to do this, but I know why now.

And i'm only doing this job the way I want to a do IT and what I think matters about IT. And if that's not good for my employer, then i'm done. And I have the podcast on building the podcast, my own platform.

I'm onna. Talk to who I want about what I want. I'm going to focus on what I think matters.

And i'm not playing the game. I'm only gonna pose the game. And the reason that this is wrong is because everything is about silos and sides. And people will say, no, no, no, there is a line and and talkers and tuckers cross that line.

And I will say, yeah, says who is, says you in the media who also cast me out, not the millions of people who want to take in what that makes me even worse. No IT means that he, you already have a platform. You already all relevant.

Why would would I want to understand this person Better when you have to reach that you have doesn't make any sense except if you're just playing a stupid game that has rules about who you're supposed to like and who you're not supposed to like. And i'm not gonna be there for two reasons. Wanted a stupid game.

And too, I lost that game. So i'm not gonna advances something that I thought was dirty when I was done to me. And I don't think there's value to the american people. They don't know what to believe because nobody ever shares ideas. And you know we can go through different stuff that I say, that you say, cause I still want to know what you came after me as much you did.

But with dick, probably because easy because I don't like seeing and then I really mean that in .

my heart of heart I .

really just but what I be I don't .

know um how can you not know that was so intentional?

IT was so frequent? Video gram.

so what?

Was wrong .

with lift out .

S I I mean, I was pissed about the coveted thing that is totally sure I didn't buy any of this from day one that was totally real but that's not what I did was not really, uh, a pure refutation of your positions uncovered IT was me taking the cheap shots, which i'm not always above and but you should be, you should be above that.

You feel good when you would come after ela.

little, dirty, dirty.

good, dirty.

I'm not a dirty good guy. Do you don't mean .

because you enjoy IT? Let me tell you, there was no shame in cameras .

are picking about people sitting here. I mean, in the sense that .

I don't want to .

use any kind of sexual metaphor, but there is one for this. It's like something shouldn't be doing, but there's kind of the animal thrill of doing something wrong, I guess.

is what I would say. You love, you love IT and IT works for you and my in laws watch you. Do you know how hard IT is to deal with having your in laws enjoy a joke that makes you want to, you know, do bad things that are going to cost you civil litigation money?

And company did say, you know, Chris was a lot bigger than you. Maybe, maybe you should be careful. I just couldn't.

You know, I almost, I I have weaknesses. I will say, I don't look at weakness for women. I gave up drinking many years ago, but I still, I still be set by the weaknesses of the flesh.

And one of them is mockery. I just can help IT in my wife. I will say who you are just with so unusually good person. And what always say, I don't like IT when you're mean, you're not a mean person, you shouldn't be mean. And very dependent on my wife's approval。

Like i'm totally happy to admit that and he never criticised me but SHE general way like, I don't like IT you that's not who you are. It's kind of who I am. That's probably .

but i'm watching your stuff now. You know I watched a lot of your stuff for this and it's a different vibe talker. I mean, look, if if we had bit in more contact before you did to put interview, I would have told you, you've ttl check some boxes with this guy. I get, I get why you're gna say i'm gonna there and get to the right guy.

me out of the country. No, no. I was never. I was afraid of the U. S.

Government not put at all I arrest.

want to get back for. So my layers told me if you could talk to putin and if you don't ask him, tough questions. The by demonstration very easily arrested. The big law told me that .

a big law from one of the biggest I thought IT was.

and I was like, I don't care. I am in amErica and citizen, i'm going anyway. But I felt no threat, what so ever. I felt.

definitely felt threat. And you know, when the story came out that they arrested somebody in russia, do you? That got like, no attention. One of the things that you have to know about this guy, which I didn't believe, but now I do, because have been looking around the south like like a little snooping. You don't watch T, V, and you don't pay attention to your social media about what's being said about, you know, that's why your hair is so full and so rich and color.

No, it's, I know who I am.

I don't need to be told by people.

so you don't monitor IT not at all. You don't know unless body tells of the reading I wasn't on the email list. I don't do email actually. And so no, I don't want to know that because .

i'm no social media, how I do and how this getting picked up or not.

You don't do IT and watch myself on television or on tape, whatever is.

and they don't. And you don't look a comment or no.

Why would I look? I have a big family, my immediate family, which is large, and then large extended family with very close. And so I immediately get word if i'm doing something that defends them, which is not very often, but I have and they'll tell me immediately.

And so that's what I care about. And I care about, you know, my religious faith that I but why would I care about some commenter? I just don't.

And by the way, I think it's really wrong to do that. Why would you give emotional control to a stranger? I don't do .

that because we are. Well, look, you've gone on your own now. So it's different. The matter is different. But for upon, like me, I am somewhat at the mercy of how .

people decide no but you once yourself liberate deliberate yourself from the completely irrelevant opinions of partisans and strangers and focus only on the people in your world who's got got right in front of you um then you're like completely free and that is like.

well but our business is all about IT. It's totally and Better dependent on social media as a proxy of vox populated. They believe that .

the people speaking right but not caring is as a practical matter much more effective because then you don't have any voices in your head other than the ones you matter.

And till your boss picks up the phone, or the comes person picks up the phone and says, we got to a clean this up. These people are not happy online because you use the word mouth, breathe and IT turns out that that's a form of a breathing thing that people are set about.

And you have to apologize.

sleep back me, a lobby, whatever IT is, and you know you like, okay? And you look online, and it's only four hundred people who said this round ized thing. But IT now matters. The media has made IT matter now washington postcard. So I people on .

like if you think you can host A T V show, why don't you? okay. But actually you're working in the pr shop at some like depressing company like you don't know anything and if you think you're Better at my job than I am wanting to do IT, you know but they can.

And so there are a whole justification for their sad jobs at which are very good, is to make you feel insecure. And I just i'm not interested in playing along. Like why would I care about some thirty old, unhappy, unmarried P. R.

Person, like the single domed, most insecure group in america? I H you gotto do the number of times magazine. how? No, no. You do you mean. Tucker says its best, their credit card copies are ripping americans off, and enough is enough.

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I get IT, I get the turning yourself off to criticism, although I think that's a .

harder to do. No, no criticism. My way to me across that you bring my saying.

social media criticism.

irrelevant criticism. Why wouldn't you do that? Because it's actually really dangerous not to IT is I would think this is giving a tod a handgun. I'm a gun person. I shoot a lot.

I'm totally for guns, but not in the hands of people who don't want to do with guns, who are irresponsible because it's too much power, right? And IT will be misused. And the same is true with opinions and letting them in to your head. Keep all of that stuff out and just follow the voice. And the more quiet you are, the clear the voice is.

I want to talk to you about where that takes you in terms of what you're doing and how how is the same or different for for me. But I got to tell you on one level, now that I know that you are not responsive to the external terms of social media, the masses that makes you come in after me as much as you did. Even worse, by the way, because it's not like you were part of some feedback loop where like matters is reading. I got to get through this.

I was just you IT was. And I tried never to be passive aggressive. I really pride myself on just aggressive okay, there's no he is passive agression. But in some sense that was I not just saying this dispirate your feelings, but I mean, IT IT was passive.

Spare my feelings, spare my feel. I trying to explain .

to so IT was, I think so little live jeff sucker who I tested immediately when I got fire though on principle, but I worked for him and I and I just you don't have to come in, but I really have a low opinion of jeff circle. I don't think he's a good person and I mean that and a lot of people up and down management at sea, and I know persons since I spent years there and I felt very hostile toward them and to some extent was like my passive aggressive way of of be the bigger show of you know, striking out at sea.

Then I take something one, and people always say, i'm saying this graciously by I at this point. Sucker is the best maker of television i've ever worked with, and he gave me all the opportunities that put me in a position to succeed. He would not let me go back at you, by the way.

Wow, he would not let me do IT. He said one. That's not what we're about here.

And where's a gonna go? Where's a gonna a go? You say you want to be trying to be in the read to make things Better now this is the man who fired me I have a lot of feelings about .

I will say when one of your co workers and I cannot remember his name but he's a very weird guide to the media show um brian stelter cultura was about .

to attack .

my children and called and told me that and I threatened them and called them names and other stuff in I called him a very bad word and he called my employer to complain that I was a sexist because I called him this word anyway uh IT was comical but upsetting. I didn't wanted protect my kids so I did. I called sucker on a cell and I said, when you guys to tack my kids so and shut IT down so here I am saying I don't like suker.

I appreciate that what the voice tells you to do, I don't disagree that sitting across from putin and get into a shouting match or whatever, uh, is gona bear much fruit for people. I understand that and I get that it's a commodity in the media, but I get that IT may not be the highest good.

Well, it's also just a vanity is a vanity.

right? I'll give you that there is an aspect of IT but you made choices like you can ask him about navi. You said, well, all killers, all leaders kill but don't you feel that if you are gonna and sit with someone like that, you have to hold them to account for things that matter? I did. He may have murdered somebody or a lot of people.

Well, I don't. I mean, the ukrainians say that he didn't kill me on me. So I think it's.

I think, who kill them. That guy looks good one minute next.

I mean, in some larger sense of rain.

They, no, he doesn't know.

The ukrainian government said, no, he died. Causes what is actually, I can even guess, okay, only died. In middle of munich e security conference, also in middle of debate over ukraine funding in the united states.

And his death was, within hours, used by the president, united states to justify another sixty billion. So, doctors, facts, I have the famous idea, couldn't put him in prison. Okay, so there's that.

So in some he is responsible. Here's what I learned, and i'm hardly a russian expert, is this is an extremely complicated political environ, extremely like next level. Okay, these are the people who dominate world, and so their politics are incomprehensible to me.

So what's actually happening? And I mean, i've been in a lot of countries and covered a lot of stuff abroad. And the one thing i've learned is you actually don't really know what's going on.

And so I had a bunch of all any questions to answer your question in my know forty seven hundred questions that I write now. Um and I decided on the flying to ask IT because I think what about to fall me? Well, whatever he's going to say, i'm not going to move the ball at all.

There is a war going on that is resetting the world. I'm not for throwing your political opponents in prison. I hate IT.

I'm mad that the by administration is now doing IT. I'm worried about IT happening to me and me honestly want to get that on the record. So but h, i'm not for that in any sense.

I don't choose to live in russia. Not a good supporter, but there's a we're going on and it's crushing the united state's economy, and most americans don't understand that. And I just want I want to talk about that. And so I made that decision.

Parking the economy is not crushing the war economy. A lot of that money ones are coming, the small to the univerty, the corporations that totally agree, but they always find a way to win.

Kicking russia out of swift, stealing people stuff. Ff, the oligarch stuff always will. Nothing to do with the invasion of ukraine.

That's not the rule d's payed order. Actually, that's the hardest edge possible politics being played by the U. S.

Government using the U. S. Dollar and the sanctions regimes to do IT.

What is the message to the rest of the world? Get the hallow away from the u. states.

These people, if they elect somebody who's seen like boner someone doesn't like us, they will use the dollar and sanctions to destroy us, get away. This not a safe haven anymore. And so that fact will change world history, change the course of american history.

We're going to live at that for the rest of our lives, our grandchildren with with that. I don't think americans understand that. And I want them to and and I want to to hear what putin thinking is.

And I don't know if I achieve that or not, but that was definitely but what I didn't want to do is try to convince other journalists for who I have no regard at all, for the most part, uh, that i'm a good person. I don't careful. I think of me.

They call me and not see all the time, which i'm not so like. Their views are totally immaterial. I just want to focus on what I want to focus on if you don't like, I don't watch IT.

you know that kind of my view. I agree um that every time you go to an interview, one look.

you know you hear voices in your handle. If you've got to do this, you got to do that.

No, I don't. I can do what if I want? The first blush of IT was carlson doesn't get to interview put that I absolutely disagree with an, in fact, as much as pain me, I defended the proposition that I know, of course, talk across.

And if you can book putin, you can interview putin. That's how IT works in our business. If you can get them, you can do the interview. Why putin chooses talker carson, and what talker does with the interview will judge when he does.

This was so I was abroad and as noted, not kind of obsessively following the coverage myself. I don't have a google alert they .

didn't want you to do because they thought that you would be a study for putin. And then you showed .

to be here in five years. I know people are, you make IT easy.

but you make IT easy for them. You shop in moscow, you says the best place of every the city is Better than anywhere in america. IT is good at on so much .

Better on the basis that I describe.

Bed will make like no money. That's why the Prices are cheap.

Yeah well um actually, uh, look, i'm no export. The russian economy, I can only tell you what I saw, which is a city of thirty million people larger than any, much larger than any city. We have hard to govern a city like that.

And there is, you know, no homelessness, no graf iti. It's spotlessly clean. The public spaces are beautiful. The architecture is not been degraded by postmodern, the oppression of postmodern architecture, which is designed to to demoralize and hurt you and destroy your spirit. I believe that because it's true.

you believe that post modern architectures designed to kill your spirit, of course.

what's the message of will look anything that we make with our hands. It's the purist expression of our creativity. So there a purpose bind everything that we make.

There's a message behind all of IT, as there is in all art. You don't paint a painting with no vision behind your pain in pain, because you're saying something. And so buildings that are warm and human and that elevate the human spirit are procured and brutally ism, for example, the I M.

Pag glass boxes that crowd every city in the united states. Those are not elevating. What's the message of working in a cube, in a room with a synthetic drop ceiling and dry wall on the walls? And for us, and lading ahead of you and no privacy at all, what's the message? Message is really clear.

You mean nothing. You are replaced. You are a widget in a bin awaiting assembly.

You're just a cog in a machine. You have no value. And everyone kind of ignores this. I go, well, that's the way buildings are always been. No, that's not true.

And architecture and anything made by human hands is the pierce expression of the society that produced IT. So we were like older, handy crafts. No, they're not handy crafts. They're a visible and terrible sign of who you are, not just a person, but corporately as a society.

And if you live in a place to creates nothing beautiful and doesn't provide people uplifting buildings to live in and work in, that's a very sick and dark society. And IT wasn't always that way. That only point I may look moscow.

I don't living in moscow. I'm in america. I'm never leaving. But moscow is not so different from the cities of the nine states. In my youth, we had a free society much clear than we have today. We had much more .

capitalism free marking .

the states. The country that I grew up in had a semi functioning capital system with competition. IT wasn't all like four companies dominating everything, which is what we have done, the stock capitalism.

Okay, that's a monopoly economy which is bad. And you had free of speech. I guess there are probably some limits, but I wasn't aware of what they were because they were so broad and you had safe, for the most part, clean cities. And that's exactly moscow.

So again, as i've said, and I really mean that, and I said IT to our reproductions who we are traveling with at the time, this does not make me love putin IT makes me despise our leaders and so I say this ser moscow and john study is just such a tool of power is crazy. He's like, well, you know, final low these for the Price of freedom really you going to trying to convince me of that. It's like telling women working at city bank is liberation, know its slavery actually.

That's not liberation. Getting to raise your own children as liberation, getting to which you want to satisfy deep st desires of your hurt. That liberation, they've refined liberation.

Liberation is living in some should hold no that slippery and so I tried to make this point. I don't think it's supersubtle le or esoteric or complex, but put no, no, no, you are flaking for the indefensible. That's what's actually happening.

So for you, it's not putin's Better. Russia is Better. It's that I gave you perspective on what you think is changed in amErica for the worse.

Of course.

I look at came across I well.

i'm i'm sure and sure IT was at least in part due to my in ability to explain IT fully, which has been a problem on my life income. But I need to explain things that's my job um and I don't always succeed. So i'm willing to believe that but is also a product of intentional distortion of what i'm saying and which is this is an indication of our leadership class, which deserves to be invited into present in my opinion.

And I mean that so uh, all my use of that, all my views through american lands. I've got a big family. I'm not leaving.

My family been here for hundreds of years. I ve going where most american person, you've don't have another passport, and like a lot of other people. And so i'm stuck here by choice and circumstances.

I want my country to be greatest that can possible. And that's why I oppose the ukraine war from day one. This is not onna.

Help us, period. And like, oh, the pot is like no two of america. That's what I want to be.

What about the argument that they make that if you allow russia to exercise reach, it'll keep doing IT?

I would say, show me the evidence. I would say, show me the evidence.

The started in crimea, now they're taking.

at least they had a referendum, crimea, where they asked the overwhelmingly, like ninety percent russian population, crimea, do you want part of ukraine after the coup of two thousand and fourteen, or do you want to be part of russia and they said, russia, that's the democratic process, I would say that.

but you don't change sovereignty over what the popular vote is like.

You d like that depends on the democracy. You are people. I mean, democracy is the promise of self government.

But if where we are right now decided to want to be its own state, they don't get to just go because the constitution you have larger ideals.

sure but as a as a matter of principle in practice, if you're committed democracy, social, that people choose how they seek to be governed and um but the truth is ukrainians on a sovereign sen been since at least two thousand fourteen when the west, the CIA, this has been documented in great detail, staged a coup and with a color revolution and took over the government. And now we know all the details that we buy labs and C A. officers.

And it's not a sovereign country in any sense. And so whatever I may look, I don't even care that much. Do you don't have mean if you stuff is very heavy? I mean, of course I care, but I care in the sensitive, you know, bri invaded rWanda, which has happened, or vietnam invaded cambodia, which is also happened.

I'm against that as an forever reign. But what I care about is the country that I live in, I wanted to be a sovereign, is not where we acted, the behaves to the demands of other countries. We imperil our own natural security on behalf of other countries.

That's why we're in nato. We have security guarantee with master IO. What I didn't think for that, that's on the constitution and what my kids to die from.

McDonald, no, but the rationals an extension of collective strength. Now here's the problem. I don't have any problem with you owning any of these opinions that you do. I can have my I can have my own opinion about the level of sufficiency of your reasoning. Uh.

but I think you find .

IT unappeasable it's the odds definitely not unappeasable but IT is that you you shouldn't be demonized for though and to flip IT because your audience is gonna much want, uh, to understand this, what do you believe I personally, or do you believe people believe that I say or report or represent that I shouldn't that you .

yeah like covered .

for instance. What do I mean to you when IT comes to cove IT that bothered you about the coverage or .

the reality or any of IT I was completely um opposed to from the very first day, uh the idea that you can restrict people's freedom of movement or force them into taking uh any medical treatment of any kind period. And I am strongly and have been really my whole dog life opposed to abortion which I think is killing he is killing um however, the one abortion so gona always like was my body my choice I thought that was was a good argument.

I don't think it's actually your body. So you know I don't think it's it's a rational r if you think you through IT as a slogan, I totally believe this my body my choice and the my body my choice. People are like actually now to start your body or your choice, it's my body and my choice and you're going to do this so we're going to hurt you and i'm just completely opposed to that.

And so anybody who seem to be endorse ing IT as you did, I was like completely post to that. Tucker says its best, their credit card copies are ripping americans off, and enough is enough. This is senator Roger martial of kansas.

Our legislation, the credit card competition act, would help in the graph VISA and mastercard have on us. Every time you use your credit card, they charge you a hidden fee called a swipe fee, and they're been raising IT without even telling you this gets consumers and every small business owner. In fact, american families are paying eleven hundred dollars in hidden White busy cheer. The fees, VISA and master card charge americans are the highest in the world, double canada and eight times more than that's why I take an action, but I need your help to help get this past. I'm asking you to call your sender today and demand they passed the credit card competition act painful by the merchants .

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I understand, and I i've heard this, I see reproductive rights differently, and I do think that this was a very dangerous politically. It's an easy analysis of the dog catching the car and getting rid of robi weight. Now you have a state by state.

You have this I V F thing that happens in alabama. You gona have a lot of crazy stuff happen now, and women are enough to pay the Price. Ford, but here's where I was coming from on covin.

I want to take on this. So we're in this emergency situation that I very much believe was real. And I wanted to believe, president trump, that this is being hyped and it's gonna go away.

There is going to be a few doing cases and will be OK. What love for that have been true. I didn't want people to get sick, let alone meat.

Um so then IT becomes like a really big thing and I have these unusual set of inside eyes, right? Because my brother is running one of the biggest states in dealing with some of the most cases. So unlike deeper into IT probably than anyone else covering IT in the country, because i'm watching my brother get overwhelmed by need in the hospital.

I got code, was going in to visit hospitals because I kept you in these stories about all these dead people all over the place and how the gernet flin they and they were. And then I want to catching kova. The government says, this is what we have to do.

And there are similar practices going on around the world. I understand the restriction argument. I totally get the the liberty argument.

But why was IT wrong for me to say this is what they're telling us to do? And clearly, it's imperfect. All of their answers are imperfect.

They don't know what's happening right now. This is the first. But isn't that the job? Is that this is what they're saying? Here's their explanation.

Yes, asking questions about that part of the job. But I wasn't like pro vaccine or pro mask. But I would got busted the new york post because I took a run without a mask gun. Walk back in my lobby and somebody read IT on me, and then I became a hypocrites. I want you to wear a mask but I not now when i'm taken to run, i'm coming back in to my option that what .

I get IT I I didn't wear I didn't .

wear a .

ask at all and that's one attack that I I will not walk back because I think it's fair um I don t wear a mask and when told to do airplanes I was punched a hole through IT.

You don't know .

because I couldn't breathe. Others, I kick the cigarette in there. If no, I quit smoking by them, but I couldn't breathe and it's not good not to get oxygen.

I believe in sunshine and air. My wife and I have not slip at their door closed. I, an many, many years, no matter what the climate, we sleep the drop. And because we believe in fresh air. And so I I believe that and no one's going to keep me from getting fresher sorry so um but if it's true that you must wear your mask at all times, then you must wear your mask at all times.

whether all times IT was a social and I have been jugged .

people getting arrested .

on the beach alone. I understand that I went too far what I didn't. I totally get IT and I feel the same way about the vaccine and what was understood and not understood we as you in question.

that really was the pivot point for me and I realized these people liars and its my job not to affirm what they say but to question and to chAllenge them no matter what they call me they call me a murder and all that um but when the bill R M S happened and public health officials said it's okay because fighting systemic races in which they never to find um despite my request uh is more important than shedding people from covet and I like you may think that is a political matter but as an epidemiology ical matter you just revealed that you're a frequent quack and you don't give a shit about public alth because you were just telling me that this is not allowed except when it's a malaya helping you you're an evil person that I I that was like my initial and no one ever explained to me how it's OK to infect people with COVID as long as they are chAllenging.

Dont trump I understand the argument, I guess, the way I was watching in a real time as well. They can control if it's protest is one thing and you can have rules. But do you really want to go arresting your way into a crowd of people who are already outraged by something? A little long comes, I know, but people look, and I don't like that. But and I didn't like IT.

then I never said I did. If a bunch naught came out in the early summer of twenty twenty and said where .

nazis I don't think they would go mask arresting although a lot of those guys do wear masks um to hide .

the identity itt mean I just think that .

would be too dangerous and I think they felt the same way would they that .

drones automatic weapons like they looked. The one thing .

we know .

about the people for they shall actually .

about that. What was he doing at the time?

He was pushed against the door going into the senate chAmber, but SHE was killed without warning. And no one never said, maybe we shouldn't all to start here from my perspective. Don't shoot girls.

That's like my rule. You don't come into violence. This woman period, I actually am the last person in apparently amErica thinks that an unarmed woman should not be shot under any circumstances unless if she's unarmed and she's five, two.

I think it's totally disagree or able and to see joe scarberry, of all people, of all people saying that's OK. I'm like a look. I mean.

so many of these situations are so in.

but i'm getting off the back.

No, I think this is the track because the whole point is nobody has these conversations yeah no one that they do in their real lives. People have friends where they don't agree on things. Trump has changed a little bit. The magazine changed a little bit for people. They started being mean to each other in their personal lives.

But yes, it's you've the worst thing that you .

ve got to talk like this. Like I do. I see that the way you do.

No.

I think you do. I don't. I don't believe that you should. Shooting on ARM of people is a very dice opposition. I don't make a gender distinction really. I know too many women who can kick my ass, you know mean, like I don't think that's not true. I do name one .

who could kick you s so i'm six one or IT was before I head back .

surgery was say, yeah no 我 穿着 比如 try to be real with each other here you know .

I A lot of that I am okay I just say， um and you're famously a body builder there's not one woman in america, not you, is you and you say you went to the u.

went to the U. F, C. fight. You think you can get in there with the women who are fighting?

You come out looking like that.

I'm saying you specifically.

yeah, holidays PH examine. I D want to have to do this on cameroon.

But if I applied IT to you, I flying college, does I know how to beat the test? And I I can tell you how if you wanted, know that's why not visible court?

But can I just ask you, like you in your heart, you don't actually think there's a single woman? No, I really do.

What's name I really do. I know the whole point is, is that I don't have to .

know them by man and women are very different, much more different. We spend all over time on racial differences, your race, my race. And there are differences between races. There is no difference between races that a quarter as profound as the difference tween. These are biological differences that are physical.

psychological or mono. Point about drawing racial distinctions is that you're really the same and obviously biology, biologically you're different. I'm saying I don't see IT as a less than ah can women lift as much weight as men on average?

Of course not. No, no, no. I make it's not less. I like women Better.

And I think that my job, all of our jobs as men, is to treat women differently, common and Better than we treat men. That is the idea. Oh, that shiver. Okay, on a good luck in a world without IT and unserious. If you gotten into an argument, and I know you well enough to know if you're standing in a restaurant, fuck you punch out if a woman did.

that depends on me. I really don't have a want to.

You would want to. You're quick with the happen to know that if a woman got way up in your face, you would not be exactly so. IT is a bigger thin, not just against turbot, against yourself and your dignity and your responsibility. I is a man, your G. I.

the genre, I don't see IT exactly .

the same way you do that. You tell me there .

are are women who could. Okay, there's no, there's no question in my mind. There are all these professional fighters and women who trained in self defense.

who will beat my S, M. A. Fifty old.

How many? How many female fighters have gone against male fighters? Rough.

very rare. Although you see that girl just won the high school. A recent chair picture .

that was cool. Look, shoes there is, is there I do you have a violence its winner act .

if the but we best .

in law that is worth .

a line yeah you have violence against women because you have a cultural um preset of victimizing women and putting them in positions that are inferior and IT was important enough that society decided to punish .

IT extra no it's not the it's illegal to be, as you know, fair to women act to something the illegal to should be may that maybe but it's violence against violence because .

you have a culture of where men, you know what the rule of Thomas, the rule of fun comes from. British common law, you can beat your wife and anything .

that's not tiger than actually a student. The british empire is the empire that stopped a widow burning in india. There was no force for female liberation more powerful than the british empire ever, until the american empire showed up and inverted IT and started telling women true liberation. Is working for some solar company that hates you and and we'll pay for your insurance to freeze your eggs so you can put off what you really want to do in life and work for us.

That's not liberation is choice is that you get to make your own choices.

People don't make them for you 啊。 Well.

um you just blow off my point.

Well I did. I did to the extent, of course, liberation is choice. But these are um choices that individuals don't get to make, like cause your economy structured and is a is with warn.

There are structural things that take away your choice.

Think the inability to raise children on a single income is like the biggest change in american society.

But, but, but when you proposed something like family leave or allowing men or women to be able to be there with the .

newborn body born what you didn't spend time .

with your kids when they were first course.

I did, and I have a lot of children, but I saw, I know for a fact, not as a matter of theory, that a child needs two parents and that each parents bring something vital and but different to parenting. But the one thing I definitely know is that there's not one man on the planet who knows intuite vely what to do with a newborn.

E there is a period for the first several months that if you are not a woman, you are not comfortable making the right choices for any borne. That's just true. And if you can find a man who's totally comfortable in around a newborn the way any five year old girl is, then I will give you a thousand dollars, because you can. It's like finding the girl can beat you up.

You can.

No one wants to admit IT because we're .

like or not that it's not only that look told you .

whole conversation is we're like in a hammer lock. There's a tiny percentage of the U. S.

Population, which is an overwhelming percentage of the democratic electorate, which is unhappy unmarried women. And they control what everyone can say and they don't want to have the conversation. They're like, oh, you hate women.

I hate women. I don't think I do. The people who think it's okay to punch them in the face.

The people don't punish rapists, the people who allow you to be afraid of the subway. Those people hate 我们。 The ones were telling you for go your family, work at city back. Those people hate you. Obviously.

there are definitely people that hate women. There is a, is a real thing. There is definitely a cultural problem. We have love you so much.

I I allowing women .

to have the same exercise of options that men have. And we know this. And there are different ways to correct IT. And sometimes you go too far and in the wrong, but I don't think there's anything wrong.

but it's always the same direction. It's always to give up your family. If you read any survey of of women, what do they want? They want a lot of different things.

We all do. But men want you get married, have kids.

No, I got you .

do not .

really know, but I got engaged at ti, was Young and I got to go.

I was especially shallow .

and I got married because I like my wife, and I thought he was hot. And so I married her and he was the one was like, we should have children. I was like, whatever I started. Even interesting.

He had to be thinking, what am I gonna get at? Like this was on my Christian of stuck, but this is .

not what but the point is, if you ask women what they want, the overall majority will say, I want to be married and have children .

and no thing men want that also yeah.

they may do. I mean, I did. And ultimately, like I got married hundred percent. I'm talking specifically about women. They want to be married and have children. And that is the thing that the democratic party prevents them from having through policy.

And the reason they do that is because the single most important constituency, as you well know, is not black voters that are, we say, those black voters, no, it's unmarried women of all races. And so they do a lot of different things to discourage marriage and fertility. One of them is paying single moms not to be married.

Another is constantly promoting anti fertility measures like abortion in birth control. They actively work to prevent women from forming families. And I think that's evil, and I don't think that serves women at all.

Let's make you IT is your view? I disagree. I see IT differently, but that doesn't make you evil.

You see I am a little evil. No and i'll tell you what you use a lot. I don't use IT. You are more.

you are more judge .

mental and stronger in your convictions, then I am um yes, I have a lot more attitude and how things would like actually, baby, the whole thing was so regrettable and I didn't think IT was right. Uh IT wasn't right to call the insurrection because an interaction is is a real thing and I know people get mad at me about this.

but who gets mad you about there's a real tell me some names insist the girl is gna beat you up is getting .

a little when i'm telling you talk, i'm going to start bring them around you the next time we see each child, you will see you you have see five. If you would set this before I got into the fight, tribe couldn't a save you. So this, this is where I saw there.

Interaction is a crime. okay? There's an interaction act. You have a, you have a statute of the whole thing.

There has never been an insurrection that was largely unarmed. okay? And I know people are going to say they had fire extenuation shes and sticks.

If your intention is to take over the united states government, you're gonna come heavy. You're onna come hard. You're gonna armed.

This was a riot, and that's bad enough. January six was bad enough. IT was a riot.

actually. Bb IT, for good reason, bad reason. No reason was where he was. SHE put that officer and fear of his life with, like, ten other people. And that's how he got.

We don't know that SHE put him in for of his life because there was no investigation into IT they didn't so Michael bird, the man who shot her to death um had already been sanctioned for leaving his loaded glock in the men's room of the couple now you tell me, I don't know what your view of firearms is, but I have a lot of use of firearms.

You can leave a loaded, a strike fired handgun with a bullet in the chAmber with no safety, and you leave that in the men's room as a cup. You should be fired immediately. That's negligent and a moral threat to anyone else.

Use the medium. So especially children. So that guy shot her. Oh, that's great. So I winchester pump.

that's not my gun. H that's not my, that's not. That is my son. That's more. And that is a yeah, that's a breach loaded winsted.

I know my guns .

and not no .

no investigation.

I know that his first investigation, what we also on video the are and what he said.

but helps you to shoot pee without a warning. I don't think they do actually.

don't get to shoot you without a warning in a situation where they are exercising a use of force in apprehending you， in a situation where there is a mob descending upon this guy. He's trying to hold the games stores because he wants lawmakers to not get hanged or whatever and they're breaking through. He then made a judgment that his life was good.

What i'm saying that was a criminal.

and him leaving a weapon somewhere is a bad move. But he doesn't have any relevance in terms of what, well.

of course, IT does because IT speaks to his judgment. And here here's the point I would make, is that actually, bt IT was not a mob.

SHE was an individual part of right.

But he didn't shoot a mob. He shot an unarmed woman who was under five, five who did not pose a mortal treat to him. And if he did, tell me how and he killed her and so just in the basis of those facts alone, I need to know more, but we don't know more because there was no investigation.

IT was just swept under the ruggles and he goes on T, V, and accuses everyone in races. And he doesn't like the killing that he committed. And then you have people on television saying, i'm so glad that he died.

I'm so glad that he was killed. This is, this is a veteran, by the way, who runs a poor company in sand ago. This is the person who serve the country, and he was getting the least benefit from SHE runs a frequent pool company. Okay, you're not working a blackrock. And her death is like totally find because we don't like her politics if they think it's OK to kill actually about that when SHE posed no mortal threat to anybody, not even conceivably then not be happy when I die.

That's how I feel about IT god for bid. And you're probably not wrong because the fact that there's even a vay in your analysis of IT shows that we're .

in the wrong place. Good morning time.

specifically morning time. Yeah what i'm saying no, what i'm saying that humanity should be an absolute value you know when like january six, I know people will say IT wasn't interaction people, okay, fine. He wasn't charged with that.

And there's a reason he wasn't charged with that. It's not a technical and your approach and the approach of others people that, hey, this was just these guys were the wrong place, the wrong way, but that all was I don't agree with that. I think he was a rise and I think they were way over the line. And I think that they were motivated .

to let me ask you a couple questions. One is, why can't we know how many federal agents from the crowd of what they were doing there?

I'm fine with knowing. I love transparency. IT is the key to .

understand opposite of what we have, and there are thousands of hours of tape and the .

release of which .

will not separate .

ze security .

in the .

capital. I walk around .

like IT was a guy did over two years in prison. No crime. I, R.

I talked to him yesterday.

very, I, but he's no more far out than janne yelling or anybody else.

Don't mean so like jane, Ellen wasn't boston into the capital .

and the chair and taking millions of dollars and speaking fees from the banks.

what? But look, that's a criminal behavior. I'm fine with those types of eth collapses and how we allow the stem around locker up.

Is that what you need to say? Um but I do think that look, I think that what I see in january six, what I see when IT comes to immigration, what I see when IT comes to russia, all of these things wind up becoming father for division. You have to have a take, and they IT wind up having to be the opposite take that the other side has.

And I really think that it's symptomatic of our decline. I told me january six was either no big deal to B, L, M. Stuff was worse, or was an interaction.

And everybody, there is treason. We don't like what the president does. Treason know? Or he did nothing. Everything is like that. Immigration, the migration stuff you are hit with the stick of. You are forwarding the replacement theory that the democrats wants to bring in as many Brown people as .

possible to replace White people. Well, y've said that the like three books have been written on. I like three .

books that's not the policy is not to replace whither people with Brown people.

So what would I am interested um and by the way, I have never said White people. I said the current oc people who are born here, many who were not. Wait, I don't know how we .

get to White people. Um you contextualize IT as White people, you'll say like Whites.

they don't us to have White babies abies. And said that though the attacks on weight people are one of the biggest thing that ever happened in our country, the the fact that people in the media can just a blithely attack an entire group in the basis of their skin color, I just group thinking.

that was completely IT matter. If the group is a majority or minority.

will the principle never changes, which is you are not responsible for your skin color, you're only responsible for what you do, right? And so you can attack people on the basis of immediate characteristics. And if you can then tell me why segregation was wrong, I don't really understand.

I think secretion was wrong. And I ve always thought that I think IT now good. And and I think attacking people on the basis of the skinner or is always wrong. He was, everything is wrong with what's happening now, every from of action, totally immoral.

How can you give someone a job in the basis of a skin color? How can you deny someone a job in the basis of a skin? Or you're not able to do that in our country. That's what I was taught growing up in a very liberal place in california.

And then I get older and it's like, oh, would definitely do that um and you can't complain about IT or you're the racist and like, no, no, no, you're the one punishing people for how they were born for their skin color. I thought that was a bull corner stuff. I thought we hate that that I thought that was the load star of american pulgar.

The one thing we hate is attacking people, denied them the opportunity on the basis of the can call on, namely, do we do that? But you can't mention that why? I think I can actually and boy, i've had a lot of people, republicans tell me, I can't mention that. Why why they never explain .

to shut up, make some radioactive .

because .

that's wrong. Because IT is substituting a level playing field where there isn't one. So the way a formative action was supposed to work was that IT would enable a merit base system that people who are minorities were being kept out of for two reasons. One, they didn't have the opportunities early on to build up the tools that are a lot of White people did because what they call now privilege, but really its opportunity. And the second reason is that because White people in the minority, the majority, and didn't like the money.

okay.

had a system that up against them to be the theory.

it's almost impossible to to, based on, obviously, racial hostility and political calculation is not based on any principle of justice.

But I said that is stice fairness and law, meaning that just because this person is Brown doesn't mean you can treat them like a dog.

of course.

But that's what I was supposed to me.

because this person is any color, any color. You should never punish someone for how he was born.

But but the country did.

of course. And that ended one thousand hundred and sixty five. No, I did. okay. Well let me ask your question again. If um weights become the minority, which I keep reading, is going to happen really soon, should they be benefit res of reform of .

action if they start to get discriminated against. okay. So would you, on the basis of that, are already .

received against in college missions in hiring both federal private sector Whites are I just want to say that, that was kind of shock by IT. If you to break out the country by ethnicity, which I hate, I don't think we should come by race. I think we should address people as they were created by god, which is as individuals .

as fine as long as everybody's get the fair shake.

Um rights are not in the top five for income in the united states right now. Nigerians, on average, making more than votes. So if you're talking about a world that is black and White and the Whites have some sort of entrance privilege or beneficiaries of all the stuff, you're really talking about a country that generations gone.

And in the current country, virtually every immigrant group has a higher income that need to born White. So i'm not mad about that. I'm just saying that's not a basis upon which to discriminate against weight. And if you continue to with those numbers in hand, and those are public numbers from the labor department, then your regions. Because you hate White and I don't want to live in a country, you punish people because the people in charge don't like their skin color, because we ve lived in that country before and I don't want .

to live in a so how is that that the people in charge are mostly White, but they hate light.

Well, that's a very deep question and I I would say this I mean, I don't know the answer um but I would say this just as I travel to something I do, I have never one time been yield by a Normal person. Not one time, not one time. No black persons, every old racist, I we more never, I never had to spanish person or asian person. Any none would ever do that. It's been about ninety nine percent thirty two year old female White lawyers.

And just think.

what do they say? raced. okay. So look, there's there's a deep psychology here. I don't fully understand IT.

There's a lot I don't understand, including this, but I don't need to, because in this country, you should never be allowed to punish people on the basis of the skin color. I just start and end there. And I know this.

All these rationales is that you don't have the evidence to support your position on you, but the person making that case, and even if you did IT won't matter. You can't punish people for the color of their skin. That's the whole freak lesson of the entire civil rights move. You like for testing. It's like the .

opposite was in no, it's that how do you enable quality if it's not gonna happen naturally OK. How do you enable if that's what .

the balls way to do that, that wouldn't punish people or advantage people. Other one on the basis of skin color, if you could find a way that wouldn't let some people sit in the front room and others sit in the balcony, or give some people, you know, a water found in the lobby in summer, water found in utility closet, then we can talk about IT.

But no scheme, device or the conceived could be devised doesn't wind up helping some people on the best skin color and hurting people on the based skin color. And they used to tell us for years, like our front of action, doesn't count weight. People look at the hiring numbers.

This is the sound of your ride home with dad after he caught you vapp.

Awkward isn't IT. Most fabes contains seriously addictive levels of nickey and disappointment .

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what you do and they're .

interview .

you and your dark secrets? What's the worst thing you've never done?

The worst thing i've ever done was to forget what i'm supposed to be every time I have an amazing ability to repeat mistakes, writing there, an amazing ability. And I just started IT looking in to myself more about this. You don't want in this way.

I'm very shy about this stuff. But everything that happens in life is very little that you control, right? Most things happen to you, not buy you, but with everything that happens, you have an absolutely need to control what that means and how to react to IT. And that is really easy to say and really hard to do. And what I did when I got shit can, and I really, I I got to be honest, hide in to handle IT well um I really did.

But can I ask, just because you're explaining how you keep repeating the same mistakes, which is yeah a very frustrating and very human phenomenon, but do you think you got fired for mistakes that you made?

Yes, really i'll tell you why um because did I do what they say? I did no, I never lied. I didn't go after my brothers accusers and you could say, why not know what you supposed to do? His party has rules and the rule is an allegation is enough and you don't really go after the if the accuser, if they are believed, okay, that's what he signed up for. Okay.

then you have the democratic part.

That's what he signed. One allegation is enough. He had more than one, okay, so that's the rule. And that was my conversation with him. I never, even after accusers, I didn't work the media.

I didn't call up and say, I won't call you this for sure, but I didn't call people up and say, do me a favor with friends, be nice to my brother and here's how we know that has to be true. okay. You don't think that if I have called somebody up and asked for a favor, they've raised in their hand right now saying, he called me, he called me. You don't think that they would immediately announce IT? Of course they would.

I would have been fine if you done that because it's your brother.

But this, but i'm saying the media would say, no, this is unavailable about.

I didn't do what they say, but I foolishly believed, and this was a mistake that my bosses, the media, the people who I thought new me would allow this uncomfortable baLance to be respected and scene for what IT was and because look, is IT a conflict? Of course it's a conflict unless your boss says it's okay which obviously he did right because obviously um there was no secret about me talking to my brother and listening to some of his meetings with his staff and IT was a mistake for me to think that that would be respected and treated fairly. I should never thought that way. I should have seen IT for the way I would know if someone came to me instead, you think this going a problem be, yeah, it's going to be a problem as soon as they find out about this. But I said the only part that rings .

little false is when you said to my ear, is when you said that would have been unethical. And so you're someone has been in the media your whole life at high levels. A B, C news, fox news, seen and newsroom news, ation and news snack now, but like, you know, because you've lived in that world, that ethics in the media are like lower than they are among prostitutes. Like, I think .

first of all, you've got to live your own standard right here. You ve got to live your own standard. And I in the media, I believe in, and I think it's, if not, I don't want to say the most, but it's definitely one of the main signatures of our democracy. And you know from and is no question that because to because .

you believe in the idea.

I believe in the idea. Yeah, yes. And do people practice IT that way? Uh, not enough.

Everything is in perfect. Everything that is human controlled is is imperfect and are easily corrupted. Ah some people do IT very well, certainly Better than I do.

Some people suck and are mean and try to do things just for advantage. And IT works really well because we reward the wrong things. Negativity is allowed to be a proxy for insight.

Taking you down does lift me up. yes. And people don't want to hear good things about talk or crossing. They want to hear bad things about talk across. If I were to do, uh, a profile of you that was, uh, making a fair case for all the success you've had, IT would get dismissed as a puff peace and I would be seen as a dupe if I were to say falsely but which is a little bit of proof that even regular people who earn in our business would be the proof.

Been on that talker calls and loves to kick puppies, they would say, and that's a hard year to piece of journalism, right? Because negativity is the proxy for insight. So that's our business.

So they would look with that mindset. I made IT too easy for them to come after me for my situation, and I have seen IT. But more important than my real mistake was allowing my family to absorb that below as if I was just about me and my brother and IT wasn't.

And it's really hard to have something that goes so wrong in your life where you come out of IT like I don't even know what I would do differently. There's no world where I don't help my brother. There's no world where I don't help my family, where I don't help my friends.

That's that's not that's that's all I am. But what I did to my family, what I did to my kids, I hate myself for, and all I can do is to try to be different now, make different choices now, like I don't pick fights the way I used to. I believe that my value at the time on CNN was i'm going to bring on toker colls and he's a smart guy.

Practice on what he is. I'm going to take them apart tonight, not catubig ously, but i'm going to take him on on his own basis. I want of IT is best, whatever his best argument is let's have them on and let's get after IT. I don't do that the same way anymore and .

course you're gn shy or you .

know because it's it's not worth what IT did in my family but there's been a saving Grace which is what brings me here today to be with you. IT doesn't work anymore. Here you turn me apart on any issue, not personally.

Let's say it's just you just policy. You just kill me on immigration, okay? IT doesn't move the needle.

The people who believe me think you are astle and the people who believe you think dominated IT who shall not be. Listen to that. That doesn't change any minds, doesn't change any minds through.

The only thing that can change minds is to change your audience to critical thinkers and people who are open. They're not lendings. They're not shape, they are not party people, they are independent, their free agents, their critical thinkers, and to have conversations that are uncomfortable.

So how could you possibly be upset about being fired? I mean, this sounds like this not flattery at since here. That sounds like a much more enlightened view of the world, a true view of the world. Then the view that cable news encouragers, that's a good thing.

is that I look, again, bad things happen. You get an opportunity. What to do with them. I'm choosing to try to create a Better professional mode for myself. But but I can't look at what happened to me and not see injury.

Now, do I have the ability to say, Chris asia, an injury, injuries fAllen off, a rane injuries, getting cancer injuries, has not been unable to future family? True, I am ridiculously blessed. I never think otherwise. My father would haunt me if I did.

I know that for a fact, but I had a platform, a position at a place where there was incredible reach, and I was able to way in and whatever mattered in the world, and get an audience that was unfavorable to me before I was at CNN. And I lost that when I was fired. And i'll never get IT back, never.

And my name right now is Chris calmo. I'm okay with that coma fired by CNN. I accept that that's a fact coma for lying about what he did to help his brother.

That is not true and I cannot stand and I cannot have my kids have to deal with. That is a google search of may. It's not true. And the people who said IT, no, it's not true. So there's an injury.

You know, I always used to, maybe i'm the one to grow in the mafia, a family.

because I just .

don't see.

didn't grow. Yes, no school is no that wrong, said you ong.

but all excited. But I just don't look lying as bad. It's always bad. Lying is always bad. But doing whatever you can to help your family again is just a hero or key of loyalty.

And anyone who tells you that you have, I accept to god, a higher loyalty into your own family, that your enemy new york is your family. Okay, period. So I don't you know you say IT and I actually completely believe you um but if I found that you did lie, I wouldn't judge you your brother I mean.

like what I think that matters if .

your brother was on the run and he said, can you give me five hundred box I in a second .

year .

yeah that's how I feel. So like how was that a thing?

I don't know if a sin I don't know right I know is wrong. I just tell you that's the way I am. But good if I if I had been lying look, I apologized.

okay? And this was really hard for me not I mean apologize is all the time when you make repeated mistakes, what I do and you lose your temper and you do stupid shit that you didn't need to do. You want to apologizing a lot if you're trying to get Better. Um I apologized for what for what I did no, for helping my brother. No, because I was told by my boss that people had CNN felt that they ve been compromised by what was coming out about what I was doing for my brother, that I never, I, I never saw they're coming. And if I had known at the beginning, and I offered to leave twice, if I knew at the beginning that I was gonna bad for the men and women who are working at CNN doing what they were doing, and I was gonna promise their ability to do IT, I would have quit like that.

Can I just say, I mean, I don't know how long you have been to seen over ten years.

over ten years. So I didn't .

spend quite ten years. So when I spent a long time there. And the idea that they would have moral comes, but that is just not believable, just not believe that I mean, they they put on from Operation tail win when I was there to the russia stuff, which was just actually untrue to all kinds of other stuff like they have no comes about lying because i've seen that they did when I work there.

And so I just don't believe that they are morally offended by a man helping his brother and not even in ridiculous ways like you weren't you know, being. So I guess my question is, I used to seeing people taking out for political reasons, you're from one of most famous democratic party families in the world. You're related by marriage.

The candidates that no is doubting right outside your on, at least by appearances. why? What was the real reason I took you out? I just, I just don't believe that that they were offended. I think .

I heard C N N. how? What is the media saw me and what I was doing as being beneath the level of transparency and ethical obligations that someone should have in the position that I I don't like .

to swear you know but I just can't say .

bullshit enough bullshit.

shit, shit like having to fear the employee supposed according to the media, but um and was later lego because of IT according to the media. But the point is I just don't believe that in my guess, because I don't know, because no one there will talk to me more.

But my guess is talk to me either, which really hurts.

It's crazy.

IT really hurts.

But I think IT was the test string level thing. They just don't want the man who doesn't hate himself on T. V. I. That's what I think.

Look, that's not the reason that was stated. People get frustrated with me because I don't go bad on jeffe soccer, and I won't. Two reasons what I said to earlier about the opportunities he gave me and to that a bad place and i've been there.

And if you let yourself get absorb IT is hard to get out. So I have so much respect and concern for so many people who are still CNN. And I thinks an amazing place is capable of amazing things. And I really miss what I had there. I get IT um and IT would be easier, I guess, and awarded .

more satisfied. Hate them and I don't employer, i'm not matter them and all I never feel match them and i'm not in a minute that but um i'm mad.

I'm angry about what happened.

but I just don't. There's clearly a reason that's different from the stated reason. And I think the most obvious thing.

I think I was just trouble. I became trouble for them and the brand matters more. And when I was working for them, I was the man and they couldn't get enough.

You were the highest .

strait showed right? Not even close. I was the number one show but they .

they can't fire you if you ve got the number one show.

Yes I yes and now you go out um and look, wow, it's it's to keep that in mind. It's it's a tough business. I understand that.

And here's what I tell myself now and I think this is important for our audience is also this is what I signed up for the the really, really impressive ability you have to separate yourself from the impressions of you. I, I don't have that. You, you, that's good.

I say that, but I don't. I don't have at the way you do. I now tell myself this. And this is what keeps my hands like this. Instead of like this, I signed up for this.

You want to be forward facing, you want to be in the media and you want to have the platform. You want people to listen to what you say, then you are going have to listen what they say. And if they don't like you, you have to take IT, and that's what you signed up for.

If you don't like IT, that's fine. Leave, go work somewhere else, go start and an electrical services company and have a different life and live in. But if you want to be public face and you want to be part of the dialogue in the arena, right, a steady rose of outset, then this is what you signed up for. And I told myself that all the time.

and IT never ends well. I mean, IT IT doesn't IT always ends in tears. These relationships of these media companies i've lived IT um I have to ask so did anyone or was IT as well for the way who did that .

you think look, he wasn't in yet um but it's hard for me to believe that you know jeff zuker I thought he'd like was making that deal happen know another regret for me on this is god you know, jeff was so important to that place. He was so valuable and because of this dynamic he wants to be an out and I didn't never wanted that you know, people say, well, at least he got fired. I feel terribly that he got fired good.

And he was so valuable to that place. And when we see that now, I don't know who knew and who did what I told things. I'm gonna repeat them because I can't prove them, but I don't think that was a .

one man decision IT never is. So but when you did leave after ten years, as the highest, the highest rate .

show when you leave.

when you got sick, and he said, did any of the other anchors call you to say, as you got kind of see after them, sorry as you go.

or no.

nobody called you, no on air person.

People called A, A, A couple of guys, but none of the ones that you know where you recognize with the C. N. And bread.

why?

Because they were told things that weren't true. And I think in fairness to them, you take care of yourself in those positions and you don't get caught in a situation where maybe you'll get swept into the controversy of being on calmo side. And he's the wrong side.

He's the bad side. I'm on jeffe side. I can see whatever side you protect yourself.

but if you work for a company or any organization that prevents you or terrifies you into not making human contact, expressing simple.

I know that they terrify them into IT. I think it's I think it's either they didn't want to talk to me because they thought I fucked up, uh, or they didn't want to talk to me because they thought I messed up, uh, or they are didn't know what to do, or they were worried about what would happen if they did and I there are .

the only news organza that behaves like this at all. They all do as for, as I know, but is not a red flag that are working for like horrible people.

Look, there was an ugly situation.

but they're ugly people though. Mean, like, who would do that if I, if if I fired someone who worked for me, who is popular or unpopular, whatever I would never say to the other people on step.

don't ever reach out to that person. I don't judge IT.

You know, I do.

Market, markets, really. This is one of my, my favorite philosophers, right? The last of the good emperors, whatever that means in rome.

And he says the greatest revenge is to not be what you oppose. What I agree with that and that is hard to do, especially for me. I'm ridiculously petty and not just because i'm sicilian probably so maybe, but the that is really hard to do.

And I don't judge people for not reaching out to me. I get IT. I get that I was hard A I I get that this is really painful for a lot of people, a lot ways. And I I really feel badly about that.

I wish I had control over IT um but I don't and I am here and I am a phone call away for anybody and now people are calling yeah now they're calling and i'm good with that. And if I can help, I want to help. And if a if you want to reach out, i'm here.

What do you think the chances are that someone of the people who didn't call you, uh, i'm not naming Anderson's wolf by name, but, oh, I did.

Sometimes I have trouble is turning between.

but that your colleagues will be calling you in a couple years as your former employer does collapse under the way of its only relevant and sort of ask you for guidance on how .

to live outside the system. Well, look, IT IT is different. Uh, doing what you're doing now, doing what i'm, uh, doing now, uh, I don't think CNN is gonna lapse.

I think this a very, uh, powerful organization. I think everybody's got a retool and find different ways to be effective. If anybody can do IT CNN will.

I don't know the new management team there. I don't know this guy. I hear positive things about him from people in house.

Um it's hard times in the media. IT is news nation where I am is hiring. Um I think it's the only cable news out foot that's growing.

It's the benefit of starting look. But IT is IT is growing. And I think the main reason that IT is, is because there's such a desperation for different and disruption of the norms.

And I know IT because people say that to me all the time. The most common thing is I know what they going to say after this, but the most common thing i've heard up until this is, you know what? CNN.

I saw you differently now sometimes theyll say you were different CNN. I don't see that. I I mean, I was certain in different personally, because I had been gone through this male eston, this crucible.

But he'll say, you know, when you were CNN, I didn't like this, but now I do now and I think that there is just so much silo thinking that news nation is not part of that. And it's getting an opportunity to just be what people see on its air without people thinking why. I know they're trying to trick me into being this way or that way, and I think that's probably why it's growing.

But i'm sure that's right. I am the last person who would know as you know, but I think it's also important to acknowledge that maybe changes of taking place within you, I mean, your views absolutely probably don't agree with all of them. I know I don't, but you do seem I will smart, I will say that, but very self aware and as new. If so, I wonder if, like I was having been fired and humility a lot, i've always thought that men need to be humiliated regularly, especially people who are successful because othe wise they become totally mirrable and and I wonder if that's like not the greatest thing that ever happened. It's good to be .

familiar. I think that you can find value in and um there's value and suffering. There's value and struggle is value in pain. In fact, I do believe that the things that have shaped my life, when I look back at like what moments mattered in what moves mattered, what events, they're almost all negative.

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months plan only taxes and b extra ed lower about c so we are the meeting here at T。 C. In the other day, I looked around the room and every other person had a kind of ruddy vitality, pink cheeks, alertness, bright eyes, full mental acuity and a cheerfulness you could almost smell.

And I asked, why does everyone look so good? And part of the answer, of course, they like what we do for a living, is really interesting. We think it's important.

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Better sleep today and look great in your morning meetings as our guys do. Will will be flipped around. Have you ever learned anything important from meeting french toast in bed on vacation?

No, no. Are the easy moments don't yield that much. So I, so you said, I can't complain.

I don't have cancer. I haven't on off a crane I think is um and I hope I never get cancer and I hope I never fall off a crane but there is something I know a lot of people had cancer and are completely fine and grateful to be alive, of course, and they suffer but there is a difference between suffering with an element that's not your fault and being publicly humiliated as a result of decisions that you made and sudden becoming unpopular with all the cool kids like that seems in a lot ways. I'm not anyway minimizing only other bad things that happened to people, but that seems like it's in its own category.

It's different. Uh, I would argue that I was never really that popular with the cool kids. I've always been, uh, kind of boxed out in the media.

why? Because my named qualm. O, H. And when I first want to get into this business, I couldn't get a job in new york. One, the reason that I wounded up working at fox news was because Rogerio was the only one who would give me a everywhere else I went. I was a lawyer at the practice in long.

and where your father's .

were o IT hurt me among the .

liberal outlets but IT was Roger ils. Don't know how interesting .

why he said so a little bit a long story, but uh, through mutual relationships he had seen me on television and his joke was, um this guy looks like he should be on a soap Opera but he sounds like he's from the inner city and he said, let me meet him and I met him and we talked about a million different things and he said, look, they're going to make you go to local television and you're going to learn a lot of bad habits.

You're going to learn a lot of good things. I'll bring you in here. I see something in you and i'll teach everything I know.

Here's the thing though, if you fail, you're done because you'll be fAiling at a place where people going to see you fail is not west reginia. But if you don't fail and you pick IT up, you're gonna leap frog ahead of where you would have been otherwise, he said. Here's the good news.

You don't seem to give a shit whether you succeeded this or not because I wasn't go on into IT because I want to be a star. I thought there was an incredible opportunity to are contact people and to show them things and mess with how they feel about things that wasn't being used. IT seems so cookie cutter to me.

At the time when I entered the business, they would talk to me about how I track and that these aren't movie lines, Chris, you know, you have to read them in as an introduction and your hands going to keep your hands down. By the time I left, I was a model of the user ands more, you know, if you got to be more natural, that sound like everybody. Things changed.

So I went there, and Roger made good on his promise. He sent me all over the country covering crime, learning the skills of being a broadcaster and and an interviewer, the trinity of interviewing, he said, to be pointed at this here and here he said, you've got a baLance, your head, your heart and your balls. And there's a time to be bossy.

There's a time to be compassionate. There's a time to be smart. You you got to figure out what the baLances, the alchemy of them. And he gave me those opportunities.

And he told me when I left to go A, A, B, C news, he said, you're making a mistake, said, they will never accept you. They don't accept me now they were fox news. I was like, going, this is I got to go. This is like the real place and he's like, they are never gna accept you.

Was he right?

I think to a certain extent um there's a been as a selective kind of exclusion, but IT never really mattered to me. I didn't go on to this business to be a star to make friends. I got my people and i'm not really friends with a lot of people who are in the media. I never have been. And if I am, it's because our friendship transit's media and it's not based on IT um and the relationships that I had that were largely media based, they disappeared when I got you can with .

a few excess of people.

I think that it's like you stop going into the the night club. You know I hang out in the night club. I go to the night club. You're not allowed the nightly b anymore. I think i'm not going to see that much, and that's what the relationship was about.

I never have brunch with .

wolf blitz anymore. It's weird. I love wolf blitz.

I called him the captain. I thought that he was such as such. I don't know. I'm talking about the past.

And wolf is such a great example lower of what I wanted to be in that business. He's unfAilingly kind. He does what he thinks is right and he works as s off.

Uh, I I called him the captain. I I miss him. Um I miss a lot of him, but life goes on.

He's unfAilingly polite. I would definitely say that having work for them.

it's more than that if you talk to the people whose stars are usually not nice to you know how they would say, oh, he or SHE, there's a little hard on the furniture. Furniture is a metaphor for these other human beings that are doing jobs in productions. And he, you won't find someone.

He's the kind of person that if you say you don't like wolf is something wrong with you because me, you can dislike a guy of people who have the same last name who would say on, I love the guy, these things I don't like. I'll tell you one thing you and I shared you. I notice this when people talk about your wife, when they talk about your wife, they talk the same way they do about my wife.

yeah oh.

when you meet her, he is the nicest person. SHE is a good person, and then the little subtle is like, as opposed to the guy she's married to, my house .

is called D A. The designated as that's my job, that's my job, baby.

I own IT, I owe you. But i'm trying and I believe that even this is a function of that people aren't gonna like this ah. They are either going to say that I should have basically been raking you over the calls all the time, otherwise there's no value to this. I'm just allowing people to not see you for what you are. And I just I just don't think that gets us anywhere, and I think people can make their own minds up.

Just a silly partition point on other side. Of course, that's that's the past.

I do think it's bigger of me to you and i'll tell you why. I'll tell you why I i'll tell you why I was thinking about this actually during the conversation um one you're less injured by what happened to you when I am. You are killing IT business wise right everything you do is huge and your boy mask um meeting with trump by the way to funding can payn now I want to your head on that um but I feel like this was really i'm surprised that I was capable to listen to our council um and see what I know this guy has done nothing but hit me like a penna and I decided to want that was then and let me meet you on is on the funny thing is but that was big for me .

i'm a very small permeable .

that no hate that I hate you because I remember all of them so I have a really .

good friend who I talk to this point just a wonderful man uh in his name, Green, Green world. And you can agree or disagree with his views.

He has also kicked my regular.

no one, no one was ever meant to me. Green, no one ever. And he must have written fifty piece, is calling me various names, all unpleasant names.

And we ended up, six or seven years ago, meeting and finding that we agreed on some things, not everything, obviously, but some things. And that friendship, and I think it's first to called a friendship, uh, has just brought me so much joy. It's so nice to see that someone is like that you're wrong about your assessment of somebody and the person someone like way Better.

And I have that i've had that experience so much in my life. It's the greatest privilege of this job is to meet people and find that there are nothing like the curricular OK. Are there worse, you know.

but that you're right about what .

that's exactly right. That has happened to me having a few thousands of people as you have. But I would think most of the time I like, I like that guy. Did you not mean that I really have felt?

That depends how you meet them. And you know the context I think the context matters. Sometimes people are in performance more. They are being what they think they need to. And what did Green wall say when you said you were gona talk to me?

I did. I didn't tell him ah something else. What do you think he will? I don't know. I didn't know he was supposed to you.

I don't know that. I don't think that I really matter to, but I mean, he's coming after me now and again, i'm uneasy. I'm an easy target of opportunity. I get that now you know have a year of not being on and watching A T V um which I don't do a lot of news watching um I don't like IT to confuse what I think the right angles and the right things are for me to do on on my show but having that time to watch and to think and i'd probably come after me too you know and I will .

say it's it's fun. I'm being honest. You should do that.

It's really not my by the but I got say you made IT hard to try to not play the game that was being played on the other side of IT. But I but I do know this and I know this and I I know I know IT again what I signed up for. I know two things about our business.

Okay, one is the two party systems failed, yes. And trump forces, biden all do respect them in their fans. okay? I'm not putting them as people.

Although trump, I could go down the road with the fact that they are the choices and that the country sees that they are inadequate. Choices only has one source. The party system.

IT is failed. This is not the constitution. It's not a creature of lots, just tradition.

Supreme court said that nineteen seventies, it's got to go. I don't know how IT goes. I don't need to know that.

First, thanking a family, thankyou son and brother of this not .

because I like .

real democrats .

and real republicans in my family and what I say to them is, you know which, by the way, I say very little because, you know, I am i'm trying to i'm trying to get my holiday on here. You know, I made here. But what is your party even about what are you except they suck.

What are you? What are what are republicans now? Because I remember back in the day I married into a real republican family.

They are real people of character of fiscal austerity. Uh, they have a different position in the current orthodoxy about what policy should be abroad. Uh, character counts.

You know, they were real conservatives. Okay, sound of that party is anymore democrats, my father's democratic party. He was all about workers.

He was about the underclass, but he was about government. Uh, does everything you needed to do nothing more. You help the people who can help themselves.

That's what I was supposed to do. And IT was supposed to try to find ways for people to CoOperate. That's what he was all about.

I remember sitting in the executive mansion and orbi, and he had the head of the senate, tian guy, raf marino. They were absolutely at each other throats, okay, budgets and stuff like that, right? Pop is the governor.

This guy was the head of the republicans, basically. He brings rough marino over. They sit on the couch, opens a bottle line, or I think I actually open the bottle, the line, and they started talking.

And my father is like a rough, you know, I don't want to hear this in this about me and also so I fine, you're right, that went to four, but what you're trying to do this is, uh, this just is not right and you're trying to force IT on us and you do a holders. And they had this whole conversation, a republican and a democrat. This guy was the leader on the senate, you know, state side.

Okay, he had no business by today's rules being in that house, let alone making a deal. Not a bad deal, not subterfuge. But I get that we disagree, but we got too hot and that's that's a mistake.

And how do we make this budget? How do we get this done? That's what IT was about.

And by the way, that was tortured enough. What we are now is your a trader, if you're in that room, of course. And I know two things.

The two party system is fail as and we have to have more voices and more conversation, not less. I know IT, that doesn't mean that people have to agree. In fact, the opposite is Better.

And I know i'm going to get beat up for and that's okay because that's what I signed up for, but i'm happy that we did this. I think there's value in IT to people and some won't think that. But i'm not going for i'm only going for some because there's only a small slice of people right now who have an open mind .

about and the winds.

My firing is not more important than you're firing um why do you think that you were the one like, you know, you're getting my head on. Why IT was me? Yeah why do you think that was you?

I mean, IT, strictly speaking, I have no idea I ve never been told um I thought that people throw on theories but don't know which are true um and I don't really care but more broadly, I understand why it's called destiny. You know you're just your your life has an arc and a path and you don't know what IT is but you can feel IT you know happen but you didn't .

say why me what about all these other people?

No, I felt like this was always gonna happen IT doesn't um mean I was shocked for like three minutes but that was IT I taught you read after I think within a couple days and no I was this is my path and there will come a time when you you know you show for your annual physical and is like stage four pank creative and you know OK you know that's what IT is and so i'm almost never really shocked by anything that happens, but that I just immediately saw the upside and because I wasn't mad and uh I wasn't mad actually and are you on medication? I know I don't take advil like even .

so this is just you .

oh you will never mean anyone is more opposed to pills than I am or any intoxicants of any kind .

other nickey in coffee that that roads diverge. I am about Better .

life through chemistry. No, I don't take anything ever like ever like a backspace hurt. So i'm not taken no, i've just totally post that. That's a whole another conversation but um yeah i'm with who's that weird actor and scientology I can .

tom cruise you either reach for tom cruise? His name didn't but he gave some .

speech on T V A years ago, years, a ten years ago, about how s, and everyone, like, he's crazy. But I was like, the only person like you go, tom cruise.

you were on the wrong side of that.

I was so i'm all about that anyway. No, I I really felt that I was dusty as I thought that most things are I think there is a point anyway, I just want thank you that was like the most interesting conversation i've had a long time and .

I sincerely ly enjoyed IT. I believe in conversation and I appreciate invitation. Thank you. And the lines are open.

I'll be texting.

Thank you. I'll be telling you how much everybody hates me for this because you will be paying attention. 这 you'll .

be laughing。

I'll be crime, but I won't be. This was the right thing to do. Thank you. Talk to.

Thank you.