Steve Sailer: BLM, Karens, Donald Trump, and What Democrats Don’t Want You to Know about DEI
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Welcome the tucker carlsson show. We bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else. They're not sensor, of course, because we're not gatekeepers.

We are honest brokers here to tell you what we think you need to know and do IT honest check out all of our content and talker crosson dot com. Here's the episode. So I got to say, IT, it's a little weird to be sitting across from you in my barn.

You, I was thinking this morning, you're almost like a matt drudge used to be, everyone read the drudge report starting in the nineties um but no one wanted to admit in the news business but everybody read IT but judge himself with this mysterious figure actually no, i'm sort of i've never met you. Everybody I know on both sides has read for years. You're not crazy. You're not a big IT, but somehow you became a of mysterious outlaw figure that no one was allowed to me to talk to.

Is that weird to be out in public? Uh, yeah actually is a, you know, for ten years from two thousand and thirteen into two thousand and twenty three, basically couldn't go see Steve sailor give a speech anywhere. I I was being signed up for conference.

My the last speech I gave in two thousand and thirteen was an analysis of the obama vers romney. Exit polls didn't seem a White controversial to me. But for the next decade, every time i've been invited to a conference, about six weeks later, I get a email and, well, IT turned out the S P L C or media matters, went to the hotel and said that this is just deplorable.

And you might find also that the local anti for the black block eyes, we're thinking about protesting and you know how that can turn into violence. It's so before so they cancelled their contract. So you know but I just kept a writing, but all suddenly I started to break up maybe last year, this year doing travelling around the country and meeting people have been reading me for years or just started reading me. It's it's a lot of fun. I I appreciate IT.

It's just funny though because you in a world where there are awesome wages and there are people who have advocate violence, you would seem to be maybe the last person who would scare people, mean you effect vely and act informal. Academic or social scientist.

your numbers guy. And I kind of like build James, the baseball statistics analyst for the social sciences in the us. I like for three years now, i've been raising a thing about, all right, what was the impact of black life's matter on black lives? And as far as I can tell, it's got black lives matter during the two errors of triumph, after ferguson in two thousand and fifteen sixteen. And then the big one, during the floyd effect, the racial reckoning of the two thousand twenties, they've got an an incremental fifteen to twenty thousand extra black lives murdered through hole incremental homicides versus the baseline, or just splattered on the pavement through increased the traffic fatalities.

But so all killed by White cops?

no. But the vast majority of black shooting on deaths is at the hands of other blacks. There is a for example, in two thousand and twenty, there was just an enormous explosion in mass shootings with at least four dead wounded at black social events.

Um this is we talk about mass shootings a lot but is the new york times did a big study in two thousand and sixteen and concluded that almost seventy five percent of the mass shootings with at least four victims wounded or killed take place in black on black uh events, typically saturday night at the club or a funeral. Um some of them are organized crime, very strategic. I can no TV show the wire, but a lot is just one guy.

This is another guy. And people pull out guns and start shooting. And yet that's very little interest to the democratic establishment. The need for what I call point of use gun control, the the democrats tend to obsess over the need for point of some of sale gun control to keep red necks out in the country country from buying rifles legally buying rifles at wall mart.

And in truth, what we've seen like in the ninety ninety into two thousand and tens in new york city, where people like Juliane, bloomberg and braden did a great job of bringing down the murder rate. What really works is point of use gun control. You discourage low lives from packing their illegal handguns when they go out because they're more worried about the cops and getting caught, uh, Carrying an illegal peace.

So they leave IT up in their grandmothers, uh addix stuff ed away. And the fewer people are Carrying guns on the streets in in new york city, feel what's so often they pull on, start shooting, and you get this virtue of cycle. But nobody understands IT. So during the great awoke in the last day, especially during the what was called, we used to be called the racial reckoning before the whole George floyd thing is pretty much got memory hold lately. Uh, just huge e increases in black deaths by murder and by car crash.

Okay, so going back up, you set a bunch things I want to um but let's just started the very beginning. You said the George floyd thing has been effective. Ly memory hold. Yes, what was the has been almost exactly four years since that .

happened .

memorial day twenty, twenty. With that, the bench. You know, sometimes we think about what was that.

what what was IT to? To a large extent, IT didn't happen. The follow on events such as A A huge in increase and murder rate, especially among black, the murder rate was forty four percent more blacks were killed a by homicide in two thousand, twenty one in two thousand, and nine in the year before, and thirty nine percent more blacks died in car crash is in two thousand and twenty one than in two thousand.

And crashes, yeah, IT all tied together. Because when the establishment, as they did after George boyd's death, said, okay, here's the biggest problem in america, even bigger than covin for the moment, is that we impose too much long order on african americans. We are pulling them over for tiki tag, things like speeding and not having registration on their car, just driving badly, and then where we're checking for outstanding criminal warns and maybe searching for illegal hand guns.

This is all incredibly discriminatory ory. So the cops went, oh, okay, you know, wants to do that alright, will be in the donor shop. And so the number traffic stops drop way down. So people started driving worse, the drill faster, and they started pick Carrying illegal hand guns more. And in the number shootings, the number homicides just went through the roof, uh, just immediately I can show week by week data, uh, from the center for disease control dishing.

beginning with George foy's death.

Yes, I mean, the the all time most murderess day in the storied history of chicago s murder, a narrative you going back, blowing away the same valentine's day massage by alcohol and all that was made thirty first two thousand and twenty six days after George floyd death, when eighteen chicago s were murdered that day. why? Pretty much because the cops went down to the magnificent mile to keep IT from being torched and looted.

And the word quickly got around that you can do anything you want in the neighboring hood, and nobody, he's going to gonna notice. And so all sorts of versions was just taken on, you know, of on grand dom people out there for you for personal reasons. And then they just went on and on for several more years, fortunately, last year. So the murder rates started to finally to come down.

You don't think there's any and you have the numbers, right? We see him. You don't think there's any question that this was related. Choose the floyd story to the fluid events.

Let's take a look. Let's take a look at the cdc es data uh weekly. All right, this is the center for disease control, collects data weekly on all the deaths in the IDE states.

You can ask for anyone particular thing. So, uh, this is weeks from two thousand and eighteen. In two thousand and twenty three, uh, the blue line indicates the beginning of covet lockdowns.

The black line is George floyd death, all right? The red line is the number of african americans who died by homicide that week. So it's bouncing around to have some seasonality. In two thousand and eighty, two thousand and nineteen, George floy dies and suddenly boom IT goes to the normous peak and then just slowly fades over the next four years .

into two thousand. Second, George ID ods people start shooting .

into yeah to probably by the friday after he died on memorial day on monday. And just that you know, there was just a giant cultural revolution, and basically people lost fear of the cops because everybody, the establishment, the media, the politicians were telling the amErica that we have too much policing, too much long order, and so we got a lot more murder. Uh, it's kind of ironic because the name of the movement was black lives matter, and I wound up getting the enormous number of black lives murdered. Incremental versus what you .

see into that even, I mean, is absolutely yes.

This is one of the obvious biggest findings and american social sciences, probably since the Angels did in cases finding in two thousand fifteen of deaths of despair and how the White working classes life expectancy was dropping in the early twenty first century. Uh, the other but the big part of IT is that h IT. Also applies to motor vehicle accident deaths.

So you could see this pretty consistent level. Um afro americans of all have traditionally been bad drivers. Uh, they don't have the kind of problem with driving traditionally the way they had with homicide. But boom, a new plant toe that's endured ever sense.

And to put this in a longer term historical perspective, let me I find A A graphs of the cdc data monthly going back to one thousand nine and ninety nine through two thousand, uh, and twenty one, uh, these are homicide deaths as opposed to murders perpetrated. So these are the races of victims and blacks, his panics, White and blue. You can see nine.

You can see nine, eleven there. That's what IT is. Three thousand americans die by homicide at the hands of of l.

kaya. okay. And then most years you've got yeah you've got more people get murdered in summer than in winter. They are out party and so forth. But it's pretty consistent.

You can see an increase over here in the the ferguson effect after the black lizer matter emerges in two thousand fourteen, uh, which was a pretty decent year and then all sudden a murder go up dramatically in two thousand and fifteen sixteen that helps get trump elected you might remember how black lives matter terrorists were assassinating cops and dallas and baton rouge so forth. Ah oh, that's really been memory hold. Uh, anyway, jeff sessions came in kind of told the police department now, you know, we're not onna persecute you for take you for doing your jobs all right.

Then trump got rid of sessions. Maybe murder started going up a little more. And then comes two thousand and twenty and the and the George floyd racial reckoning and just enormous increase compared to anything else in the twenty first century.

Now one reason we don't hear about this is because his graph are kind of embarrassing, because the black line of homicide death rate is so much higher than then. The the light Brown has panic line. There is panic actually in the twenty first century i've done a pretty good job of lowering the home the way of being murdered um and finally, though, when the racial reckoning came along, IT got worse again.

So we were losing a bunch of that progress. The blue line is the light line down the arts and order of magnitude below the black line. It's considered really bad taste to notice, you know, different is in the homicide rate.

The other thing, but I point out, is motor vehicle deaths. Motor vehicle deaths per capital, this isn't per mile driven. Weren't too bad, weren't they didn't have big racial differences in the past.

White, the Whites in the blue line often had the worst. Blacks weren't bad. The panax weren't good. But then after two thousand a day, his stand actually got Better. And the Brown espana line is doing pretty good until the racial reckoning. But you can see the black line just went through the roof again the rest of the twenty first century.

So what's happened is, during the greater opening, during the error of black life's matter, what we see is that deaths, two different kinds of deaths, homicides and car crashes, what I call desk of exuberance, in contrast to case, indeed, and deaths of despair seem to be have gotten highly correlated when black lizer matters winning, uh, people. But people, especially black americans, die more deaths of exuberance until black lizer matters goes out of fashion again. And the cops are allowed to light, pull over bad drivers and check for illegal handguns.

So does anybody know that now it's partly caught on at all? I mean, part of the problem is because I discovered in two thousand and twenty one then, if you were a social scientists you want to write a paper for academic journal it's kind of like either well, either I cite Steve sailor but I might get cancelled for sitting this horrible crime thinker or I don't cite him and then his followers on twitter i'll get no mad at me for not citing him um here's my view just go head don't cite me, just get the word out theirs. It's more important that america, no, about how badly IT screwed up, how many tens of thousands of incremental americans have died. Because america, america's elites, sk, infatuated with black lives, matter now and then. Then IT is for me to get publicity about IT.

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payments coalition not authorized by any canada or candidates committee. W W, W, merchants payments coalition, dotcom. These numbers are pretty striking when you graph ed out like this, but they comport with what you notice no already I mean, you sort of knew that you know when you have riots, people die and lot of people who died were black not all, however um but IT was pretty obvious from day one that black lives matter wasn't helping anybody here including and maybe especially black people so like what would be the motive?

What's the motives? Now there were a lot of motives for black lives matter one one was that amErica had gotten Better after the one thousand nine ninety after the crack wars at policing um that uh the drugs that were driving crime were not particularly leave marketed to intercity black, the obo IT adds the oxy code and so for even the when the mexican cartel's started selling black tar heroin, they also focused like the sacks or family, unlike, you know, who are a bunch of people.

If they dropped, nobody y's gonna care. And that's like a White people in small towns and kentucky, that kind of stuff. So you had these had this big rise and desks of despair we did.

So you're saying you think that was the sickler in the mexican drug cartels, morally equivalent, I would say, or close um targeted rural Whites, appellation Whites for example, on purpose because they knew that nobody would care when .

they died I mean it's the theory of uh good reporter named sam coronas is in a couple books on the evolution, the drug trade in this century uh that the mexican car tells had a strategy that we don't want to sell to, particularly shooting people, their media capital sell to people who will overdose and quiet in. Just kind to get towns in the ohio river valley that nobody he's gonna care much about.

So I mean, nobody paid any attention to this increase in the White working class decorate until just fortuitously in two thousand and fifteen and guess deed and was award of the nobel prize in economic and a couple weeks later he and his wife published this important paper saying, you know, if you look at the cdc data, uh, life, expect and see for White working class people without, know without college degrees has been dropping in the twenty first century. It's not supposed to happen and seems to be overdoses on painkillers IT seems to be suicide IT seems to be alcohol. Just deaths of despair.

Seven years into obama, yeah yeah .

fifteen years into the into when I started around two thousand, when the the sacer families produce pharmacology, started their big push for A O B O A prescription tions.

So how would no one notice this?

I wonder that there's no organizations dedicated to to the welfare of White working class people. Also, the fact that they're dying in great numbers of novel causes IT basically relied on to academics. And who said, oh, this is interesting. And one of them happened to win the nobel prize just before their paper came out. So people paid attention to their paper because, oh yeah, I heard about Angus died and the nobel and nobel prize last.

That's if I that was is I think you're right. But it's sort of interesting if think about IT, there aren't organizations dedicated to the welfare of role weights, but there are lot of organizations dedicated the wealth. Are a million other groups that are much smaller in number yeah um so why .

aren't there any organizations dedicated to a few people have tried to set up organizations that speak for White people the way that al sharpton speaks for black people and countless other organizations speak for jewish people or linos and so forth, and are highly respectable and are constantly quoted in the newspaper. So bright, very gentleman, fell ing.

Jerry Taylor tried to, as do this for the last thirty years and you know he's still banned on twitter at this point. Homes, amErica has a phobia about anybody speaking up for the emerging White minority on everybody. You know, the conventional wisdom is that White rapidly being turned into a minority, and that's a good thing. And but we're not on treat, ever treat Whites like the minority that they're becoming in in multiple states across the country. We're going to treat them as the all powerful and the ant legacy majority who can be blamed for everything from now on.

But that I I would certainly to see that. Well, I think it's absolutely right. But if their life expectancy is declining faster than anyone else is and they are dying, then I mean, IT IT does seem a little odd there to lie about that. I mean, what's the intent there?

It's nobody lives so much as they just wondered, why are you interested in this? What kind of sinister reasons you have for worrying about the hundred million working class White people in the country are generating these not new problems and dropping dead from them and know putting out the alarm about IT is is just considered some sort of White supreme White nationalist dog whistle that you know will lead to slavery in the hole cost and all sorts of imaginings and you know the other half of the White population wasn't suffering um they they were you the kind of people who don't have a bad back because they don't lift heavy things on on the job. No, they're not hold on oxy code or or when prescriptions got tightened up then and go to mexican heroin and and then to fit all and so forth. So uh you know who cares uh we're just talking about deplorably here.

Okay I mean I get know everyone has preferences and a lot of people um in washington in ork, I don't like the voting patterns of the population in describing, but they are human beings and americans and if they're going extinct um or the dying in huge numbers in any case uh to ignore that or downplay IT .

is is evil isn't IT yeah I mean that they to my view they are our fellow american citizens as our african american and so the fact that black lives matter in this ironic complete the self destructiveness brought about just historic changes in the number of black lives dying in kind of the opposite of the the working White working class deaths of exuberance that you could see that in the ferguson effect in two thousand and fifteen sixteen and that now in the huge void effect of the two thousand twenty years, I mean, we're talking uh but something like an incremental fifteen to twenty thousand more blacks have died in those in car crashes and murders. Then if the baseline of a few years ago had had been maintained and that's that's just enormous, that's that's easily the black death death total in vietnam, maybe vietnam and korea put together. And people should be talking about that too, because african americans are fellow american citizens when we all be like keeping an eye on them and not refrain from noticing just because it's embarrassing, just because who .

really thing to elites.

the conventional propounders of the conventional wisdom, uh, the respectable prestige press, academia, uh, the democratic party and so forth, that they they promoted all of this stuff. Uh, they took black lives matter at face value and did very little investigation. I mean, basically you weren't anymore allowed to ask the question like, okay, black men tend to get shot by the police about two to three times as often as White men per capital.

That's a big difference. But it's nowhere near as big difference as, uh, black ten digit shot by each other about ten times as much as White scut shot by each other. And probably blacks get shot by non police lights you dozens of times.

Let's l often then they are shot by other blacks. Um you know black Young black men in this country have an enormous homicide problem, a gun homicide problem. Uh, i'd looked up for Young, for males age fifteen to thirty four, their death by gun homicide in two thousand and twenty two.

And the Young black men died about fifty, not fifteen, but fifty times more per capital by gunfire. The Young asian men, twenty four times more than Young White men, and six times more than his panics. The panics are fairly comparable, and poverty rate and education and so forth. And but they don't have anywhere near the kind of gun problem that african americans have developed.

And I think, but is anybody out there are asking Young african americans and telling me, know if you guys could not get your homicide rate down to the espana level, if you can get IT down halfway from where is now to this ispa ic level, this country would be so much Better off, and race relations would be so much Better. But you know, you're not supposed to put crime statistics like that in the newspaper. It's just considered racist to mention .

so obvious it's reality is not racist you know um by the right but again .

started keep .

asking variations of the same question but what would be the motive in trying to hide something like that?

I my theory is that IT goes back to the grand strategy of the democratic party which um is enthusiastically assisted by other forms of the establishments such as the prestige press academy, much much of the corporate world as well. The democrats have realized over the last few decades that they could be that amErica is becoming more diverse uh, immigration is driving diversity uh, patterns of interaction, marriage, more people who are have some claim to be non White.

Also, there's a constant generation of new identities such as in in the last decade trends generis m um so as amErica becomes more diverse, the democratic party can profit by being the party of diversity, party of the diverse, the party of people from the fringes of american society, the party of people that the democrats were called, the marginalized from the margins of american society. So you're talking about immigrants. You're talking about a black church, ladies, trans gender, a juice muslims. It's set at sea. Now the one problem with all this is that while it's IT works pretty well on paper, and the democrats have managed to win the popular vote in seven in the last eight special elections, uh, the problem is keeping this coalition of the fringes, the marginalize, from turning on each other, from becoming a circular firing squad.

And because a lot of the components very .

little common, yes, as we're seeing with jews and muslims right now, it's, you know, these people do not like each other to the black church ladies were the steadfast democrats. Do they were? Do they really get along that well with the gaze? Much of us with the transgender do the do the asian immigrants have much in common with with his panic immigrants now not really.

Um I can go on and on. It's it's inherent in the democrats grand strategy to be the party of diversity, the party of the fringes of american society. So, uh, how can they unite their coalition of the margins? And the one strategy the democrats have come up with is basically to Foster A.

Racist animists against core americans, people who are you know basically or demographically somewhat like George washington and Frankly john atoms you know that that are White, that are men that are strake. Maybe they own homes, maybe they're married, they have kids. Um so the and to make them the bad guys in the american narrative and that's the only thing the democrats and their colleagues in academia at said or I can think of to hold together this diverse coalition.

So we've seen this enormous increase in in just racist bigotry being expressed in, you know, the pages of the new york k times in this century. Things in the past would have been considered rather in poor taste and extremist. So the new york times, will you be put in a lot of effort in recent years explaining the racist, sexist, lur Karen, as this anti White woman racist, a slur to their millions of subscribers, so that they know just the right time to use IT, and they make sure not to use IT on any, on the non White to current so forth? You recently head on.

my impression is that most of the leadership of the new .

york times is parents yeah like .

I would say what I mean by that is like screechy, fragile barn in prior listing middle ages lawyers .

yeah that's .

yeah me my money in the .

model subscriber perhaps and yeah the you know the york times is not the fAiling new york times anymore.

It's they've done a very good job of identifying people who will pay the subscribe to have their world view vindicated over and over again and and kind of for the times to bury inconvenient facts that don't support their view the world you know in the twenty seven paragraph or something I could um so yeah you recently head on germ my carl, he's got a new book, the unprotected class documents a great length. Just this trend, tod. Ever more anti White racism in the respectable press, in media and the democratic speeches and so forth.

And you know, it's finally starting to backfire on democrats. So people are starting to notice just how much awful stuff is said about kind of the core americans that tend to vote republican. So I don't know what I mean if you've been seeing this just stop the last ten years, just a huge increases and and putting down White people and yeah one of the defining .

facts of american society and and it's always perpetrated by people who are simultaneously in the same sentence giving you electra about racism. Yes, shut up, White men. You're evil for being White and racist.

There are so many like the contradictions in that .

sensor are so inherent that it's hard to believe anyone could outer IT. But no, of course, I notice that. And I guess what i'm really struck by, and I don't know the answer, is why people put up with them. So so at that point, it's like, well, you know like if you're attacking my children for the the skin color and I get my gun, right, but nobody does get his gun, they just .

sit there okay.

think like what I don't. Why would anyone ever put up with that?

Me, I think why americans go out of their way, not. To just go oh yes, I hear what you're saying about how the evils of White ness and and my children are children of White ness and they've oppressed the world and i've actually thought about that and well, that may sound like just libra racist bigotry on your part. IT actually has a really impressive intellectual heritage age going back to the Frankford school and gram SHE and updated by you know in the critical race theory by Marcus a and people will go on on about um you know what what you're saying isn't is moronic as IT sounds and hatfield bigotry it's actually you're getting in this and IT all goes back to marxism or is or full co or something I had um so yeah republicans weights have been reluctant to to call out just anti White racism for what IT is.

Why is that? I mean, clearly something is broken inside, right? I mean, like why would you put up with an attack that's .

no inherently unreasonable.

right? You don't choose your race. There are free publishing the tax on the basis of his race.

It's totally anti american as defined by consensus over the last six years. That's one thing we're not allowed to do. And yet it's done at greater scale now then during the jm cro period. So like why would you even consider putting up with that? There must be something wrong with you like you hate yourself, obviously.

Yeah republicans republicans would like other other races and good for them and um and yeah they want they want to blame. The tendency that's been growing, especially in the black lives matter or of the last decade, to just say the most bigoted things they want to blame IT on something old like marxism. Now this isn't what, uh, an african americans want to say.

You know the my son's I I my son's friends on his high school football team, they're they're not bigoted, racist. And the truth is yeah a lot of them are and a lot of this stuff is coming out of colleges and so forth. It's it's kind of soft degree majors and so on.

But you know taking taking claims to have some deep been electuary heritage age is naive. It's just it's just people with soft majors who ve got D I syndications and so forth and corporations and lodges, you just expressing their their basic prejudices, their basic negative. And you know, we should be laughing at IT.

We shouldn't be taking IT that seriously. We should be sad ized IT and scoring IT and making jokes about IT. And that could well get the message across.

You may have come to the hills. Dale college offers many great free online courses, including a recent one on marxism, socialism and communism. Today, marxism goes by different names to make itself seem less dangerous. Names like critical race theory, gender theory and decontamination, no matter the names.

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You can try with zero obligation for a month and if you don't like you to send you back again, that's eight sleep dog comm slash tucker. Better sleep today and look great in your morning meetings as our guys do. I think a lot of people assume that when Whites who was he found in the country, become a minority in the country their ancestors founded, that it'll stop um .

Whites will be the legacy majority. I mean i'll give you an example um in nineteen fifty five a fourteen year old black child named emma till was was murdered for making pretty a aggressive past towards White woman in in the south right married why woman in a store yeah in store and then that was a big story at the time and helped ad to the civil rights or of the one thousand nine hundred sixties.

And then IT sort of faded from the newspapers the new york times mentioned and IT tills name twice in two thousand and one hundred and eighty in two thousand. They wrote to mentioning them four times by, I think, two thousand and eighteen. They were mentioning him something like one in the half times a week, about a, about as often.

And as chief justice john Roberts, me really, in the new york times, IT just became this huge breaking news story. And they know, I joke, that they had to know at a jet, at the guards of fuelled up, always ready to fly anywhere, to report on the latest emit till news. All right, this kind of antiquarian ism is increasing because, I mean, the truth for liberals is the liberals have been pretty much in charge of most things, a involving race for since the nineteen and sixties, and they haven't really accomplished that much.

So they kind of want to hide their record and focus people on precision l rights, a antiquity such as emit till, or you constantly hear these days about uh fd r red lining of F H J loans in one thousand and thirty eight as the reason that black neighborhood ds tend to have lower property values. Then a White neighborhood's or latino or asian neighboring hood ds and you know, couldn't have anything to do with current crime rates, couldn't have anything to do with with discipline in the local schools. It's GTA do with the nefarious plot of f dr in in almost ninety years ago.

And why does no one so often? You know the all these southern cities are famous in american culture for their association you um the trial and wilmington you know there's like these moments in the civil rights era that people told you, pointed, talking about of mp, why does no one never go back to those places, those physical places, and find out what they are doing?

Yeah um burma him not doing that well, sala not doing that well. Yeah, it's yeah. What then ends up is you then have you end up getting a lawing lecture about how the construction of a freeway in one nine hundred and fifty eight destroy the bombing black wall street of burning hammer or whatever and all sorts of things like there's a large number of precent excuses. Um is there .

any effort to actually improve the lives of black people that you're aware?

I mean, what what doesn't prove the lives of black people basically having some in order keeping people from Carrying guns on the street. It's probably done quite a bit of good. Basically, the the parts of the country that are run by republicans tend to have somewhat Better performing blacks students in schools and so forth.

For example, frisco, texas, a fast growing exurb of dallas, has the small lest tesco gap of any school district in the country that has the highest, it's about eleven percent black and twenty percent his panic, and has the highest black. And his panic test scores in the eyes states really, and the smallest White, black gap, in the contrary. And the other places, the great liberal cities like san Frances go and medicine wisconsin or attend to have bigger, bigger um gaps.

But not just because they have lot of smart White people living there, but they do allows your job instances to go educating blacks uh because you know it's it's such a liberal progressive environment that they do a poor job of doing things like having well disciplined schools and focusing on basics and so forth. Um so yeah there's a general I mean, there's been a general trend toward blacks who have some have some choices in life for looking to get ahead, looking to do good things for their their kids to be moving to the south, to texas, to red states and so forth where you know they can um and away from the highly all parts of the country. It's it's not a panache, but you did does some good at at the margin.

Where are we on the continuum? Other words of the graphs that you showed the four years after the fluid verdict of floyd death, like if you extended those, if you double them, what will they look like? Where where we now .

we're hopefully passed the worst of the racial reckoning. What I what i've noticed in the newspapers was that the front section around a few months before the two hours and twenty two election, seemed to get the word from maybe the bite in the White house that like, you know, this whole George void racial reckoning thing, it's not gonna be a big vote winner in the two thousand and twenty two mid terms, uh, especially in the in the new york city area.

H um so s let's go easy on IT let's not talk about IT all the time. Maybe IT wasn't such a good idea what. And then I just sort of disappeared from the serious use part of the paper in the cultural section in the back, you know? No, they never got the memo.

So there is constantly discussions about how, okay uh no, in a great leap forward for equity at the art institute of chicago, they fired all the nice White lady dozen who work for free, giving tours of the great artwork so they can hire uh, people of color to then pay them to work there and stuff like that and he kept hearing all those kinds stories going on much longer about the wonders of the racial reckoning because, you know they gotten the message uh but yeah probably the bite and administration uh engaging in bene n gleck about like it's not uh, prosecute police departments quite as hard as we were, has probably done some good about getting the cops out of the donut shop and actually pulling over you know people driving a hundred miles hour um and so that's that's made some progress but IT took he took the hospital s while longer to get get the word that the cops weren't being proactive and so their car crash murder rates have go one way up. And you know it's even if things are getting Better now there's gonna takes number of years to get back to where we were in two thousand and nineteen, much less where we were before ferguson in two thousand fourteen. You know the the death rate is still up, like in these deaths of exuberance, like thirty to forty percent over two thousand and thirteen.

and way up over the non black average. So the obvious questions like why and this been going on a long time and has there ever been a serious effort made in good faith to figure out why rates of violence among in black series are so much higher, which they are and .

have always been, but why yeah people people have been studying IT for uh, the longest time. Uh you know time magazine or and an article in the late fifties about the the biggest worry of big city mayors is the growing problem of black crime. You know, at this point, cities done, know, we went through a bunch of faces.

We liberalize the country in the sixties, in the war, in court years, we cut to the imprisonment times and so forth. And that that wound up doubling the per capital murder rate. In the sixties and seventies he doubled. No, I was by one thousand nine hundred eighty. He was twice what I was in thousand nine hundred sixty one per capital.

It's a lot of dead people. Yeah.

it's a lot of dead people. And did did horse to american urban life. People fled to the suburbs. They're all now denounces of these villains who engaged in White flight. But like my my wife family lived in the in the Austin neighborhood in the west side of chicago.

And they, when I started to integrate, they joined to a liberal catholic group and said, okay, we're all gonna stick IT out and not make integration work, and we're not going to fleet the suburbs. And my in while stuck, stuck at out three years longer than the rest of the members of the club did. But but at that point, the number of felonies against their children was killing up. And so they finally sold out at a love like half of what they could have gotten for their house, that they've sold IT three years before a tens of millions.

that they change their views .

with a tragedy for them. Yeah, they know my my life. Father in law was the tuba player for the chicago lyric Opera. So something to buying a farm sixty three miles out of town and then commuting to work to play the tuba in the upper house downtown.

And I was kind of a disaster for them and you know there's tens of millions of americans are still alive who can tell these stories uh of what actually happened and the media is not that interested in hearing them know the media wants to portray these people as the bad guys who because they're bigotry and not because of all the felonies children and you moved out to the suburbs. Interestingly, right across the street from more night in laws lived is the municipality of oak park in anian suburb in this timing way, supposedly said, was the land of broad loans and narrow minds. But really nice, as always.

Great, Frankly, right? architecture. They actually did something really intelligent and really illegal in the one thousand nine hundred and seventies, which was, they put a racial quote on real estate agents. IT was called the black a block club and said, now you can't make a huge fast windfall by terrifying everybody into selling right now and because it's the whole block is gonna tip black your new we're going to do this in an orderly fashion and we're going to use a ratio quota and IT worked, kept, uh oak park from from going all black away. The Austin neighborhood next store has gone and Austin just is bleak.

It's kind of post a poc olympic looking now and and a park looks kind of like this gay utopia for older gay couples who like fixing up but a beautiful, Frankly, right houses. So, you know, liberals did some things to protect themselves, but they just didn't telling anybody about IT. So would anyone ever held .

responsible for many of us?

You know, if you if you read the press, uh yeah there's been huge condemnation for of all the all the a White families that fled crime as that they're engaging in White flight. And if their grandchildren move back to the city because the crime has come down a little, then then they're engaging in the great crime of gentrification. You know it's it's kind of can't win.

You know either way you lose. You know there's all sorts of talk of mayor pete in the transportation departments always denouncing racist roads, that building highways was destroying black neighborhoods and so forth. You know we read t in the past over and over again, uh, so we don't learn anything from that because we just we just specify a few important a few things that fit this narrative tive that everybody has now um so you know we'll see.

I mean, the obvious goal is what they call equity and the term equity is one of those words. It's not a secret what the di people want when they specify equity, what they're talking about, when the time about equity and generational wealth and so forth, as they want your equity in your home and they want to tax IT away and take IT for as reparations and spends in on themselves. And that's that's kind of the the bottom line, whether we'll get Carried out, I do not believe we've seen reparation programs started to put out checks and super liberal places like events and the I um even in california, the idea handing out huge checks to black people for the the horrors of living in california um didn't go that well.

Uh we have two two larger .

stanic population.

And how exactly would um the D E I community steal the equity out of your home?

Um well I mean what one start has been to reopen ancient history um what he call IT when the government condemns your property and cells and buy IT for what IT thinks it's worth um we've we've seen cases a domain yeah eminent domain .

cases .

from a century ago we saw uh so if you if if you're black and you happen to have a family legend that we used to own this really nice piece of property. But then I got imminently domain to make into a park that was racist and we should get that property back so the descendants of a black family in manhattan beach recently who man head and beach had had uh condemned their property and a few in some White neighbors of theirs to build a park.

And they recently got the city council to declare that that was racist in one thousand nine hundred and twenty eight and that if IT wasn't for this, they no doubt would have held onto the property through the depression, through everything that's happened. Ever sense they would. They would have script and saved to hold onto that land next to the beach, which is now with twenty million dollars.

So they got to check for twenty million dollars. Uh, for that you you'll see this is a general trend that's that's speeding up as uh, you know, point of attorneys are looking for these old cases. No, it's not like they can relitigate the case because there's nobody alive that remembers that can testify anything like that. So they'll be a lots of attempts like that to you basically hand out large amounts of money and and maybe maybe I won't be called reparations, but but you'll see this and it's definitely been increasing in .

the two thousand dos demographic through driver immigration. Scramble the form a little bit. So you're i'm fifty five years older than I am by a bit but we we both up in a country where was White majority, black minority and with some we're from california, both of us so there was always a hospice ic component but um but I think most americans are thought of IT as a wake country with the black minority and the treated black minority in some cases of true but that's not the country that we're in right now. We are definitely not the country we're going to be in ten years, which is going to a eissa ic majority, a White minority and then a much, much, much more black minority so I just wonder if the his panic majority .

is can be that interested ma till yeah I mean that's yeah that's definitely a possibility and and the the establishment is working hard on that to to increate in the public schools that emit till is the most important figure of the twenty of century um there but they're working very hard to keep together the democratic coalition of the fringes by pointing at these horrible White men who are the enemy and who also have all the generational wealth. And keep your eye on the prize, eyes on the prize.

which is other .

people's money yeah other people's money. It's it's White people's home equity basically. And stocks of baby bombers are dying.

They're leaving. They want to leave their property to their kids. This is a vast turn over wealth. We need to get our our hands on some of this. Um another question might be, know how how big is the african immigration gona going to be? If you go to look at the border, all sorts of people showing up from marijuana for all sorts of places.

You know, recent years all over the world, fertility rates are plummeting except there is still way above uh, reproduction rate in in most of africa, right? And it's not people know how to get out of africa and now you got a smart phone IT gives the only instructions and so forth so you know why not move some more nicer and you know so so the country could well be, you know I mean europe getting much more african and probably in amErica is too at this point um that the a descendants of american slaves are losing out on their affirmative action and so for that me twenty years ago um um uh to harvard african american studies professors pointed out that a huge fraction of the affirmative action spots at harvard seem to be reserved either for foreign elites parents are you know foreign minister of ghana or something like that or are or have one White parent or like in the case of the obama family. It's now three generation harvard family both uh privileges and you know not many positions at harvard go to a descended american slaves the way shell obama is clearly you know highly legitimate descent of the american slaves. And barman, not at all um but yeah that's we're going to see we will see that I mean american corporations they want if if they have to meet di quotas h they tend to prefer immigrants for the jobs or people maybe who are raised by their White mothers or something like that. So we'll see where where this all leads.

Where does that go politically?

Well, actually, let mean to take a step back, you um became famous to extent that you were famous. And what of some is that kind of two thousand and sixteen for calling that election with with some accuracy based on and looking at the demography? Tell us about your .

predictions. Yeah I mean, that's a kind overstatement, but it's it's it's more like in two thousand, I became the most outspoken critic of the new top orthodoxies, promoted ted by carl row, George w. Bushes, swing, goi and rose theory. Was that what we need? What the republicans need is to push through amnesty and much is your immigration and that's what the latte ino voters or future latino voters will will love us for that for bringing in fellow latinos and then those all switched to voting, uh, republican, especially for the bush family which you know that the jobs some uh George p blish is half mexican and so there is the future as the united states and mexico demographically merged the bush dyna sty of wasps and mexicans will Carry on as the natural ruling class of a of an increasingly mathesius north america.

Ah and that there isn't too impulsive but I kept asking questions like, do do routine OS really care and that much about immigration policy? You sure they really want all their cousins from back home to be moving in with them? The one close, the tina state, is florida.

And do the cubans and florida really care about mexicans, illegal alien in mexicans? I have noticed that. And I keep saying, you know, all a lot of the latinos in california that's never going to go republica again.

And the others are texas and large numbers. And if that goes, if that's up for play and the holiday parties and really big trouble. So what would make more sense looking at the electoral college map to go book? There's always great lake states, the rust belt. And one of the things you see there is that the White working class isn't anywhere near as republican as they are in the south, and they're actually really close in the electro al college was gunson, michigan. So why not do things for the White working class in the north, such as limiting immigration, so that know they can continue to be paid pretty well uh and focus on them and yeah that's and the republican establishment kept going on with the espana plan that was the big two thousand and thirteen audit that convinced marco rubio that we need amnesty and so forth um but I kept saying, know the way you win in the electoral college is these .

rush .

bet states around the grove not see that? I mean, for his loyalty to the bush dynasty, I really think George p.

Bush, uh, played a huge role in the bush families thinking that because a jabe married into a mexican family that this gave the bushes is out of all the lost dynasty in the united states the greatest chance to exploit, uh the immigration wave from that in amErica and be the natural ruler of of a mexican ized population I mean, a George H. W. Blish had ten year old George p.

Blish read the declaration of independence at the nineteen eighty eight republican convention, which was a big deal because because, uh, the democratic candidate had been unenthusiastic about the pledge of alliance and so far so know George H. W. Is putting is what he called his little Brown.

Well, up there on national television. The bo get started. So, so yeah, that made sense to rob.

You got the things. The more you listen to row that maybe he wasn't the genius we were .

told he was 呀。 这个 you want a couple of elections for George w。 Bush, but yes, is he this genius now? But know the republicans weren't didn't you know didn't have a whole lot of people who punch numbers and spread sheet.

So in the first decade of this century, I spent a lot of time analyzing spring sheet. And so fourth of election totals and go, you know, looks like there's a different path here. And that really runs through the north central region where White working class people vote about fifty, fifty republican and democrat.

And you get that up to fifty five, sixty percent. You you can win a lot of electoral votes. So did did trump a read my two thousand article? But what else was he going to do? That was that was the one path of the president.

See, you know, almost worked again in two thousand and twenty pretty header circumstances. So will IT work this time. I don't know. I've given up making predictions. I mean, people people came along like nate silver, who just were so much more interest, rested in predicting elections and worked so much harder at what does like. And I don't hit that gambling instinct that that nate does and you know um i'm going to a i'm going to retire from me predictions and I don't see myself as a great forecasting the future. What I try to be is a historian of the present and notice things that are happening right now.

So what is happening with his panic voters .

in in texas, in texas is definitely seem like the racial reckoning of twenty twenty when the when the democrats went basically nuts over black, alienated quite a few texas latino democrats are in california. Let's clear, you know, the matter and carefully .

is done much of a democracy .

at this point. IT doesn't matter. It's helpful. And texas, in that the republicans, republicans will basically lose the White house forever when texas flips blue.

The good news in texas is that basically they have a pretty there are pretty strong, loyal, steadfast republican weight of population. A lot of the advantages of texas are that they're not tied into guilt over the sale. They were confederate state.

But they don't care about that. They care about the animal. They've got this whole national narrative. And IT IT helps keep them together, and they provide strong leadership for his panics. And his panics are less, you know, domineering.

Then people were talking about in the past that they kind of look around at their upper middle class neighbors and go, okay, what do you do? you? You're republican. Okay, that sounds pretty cool. I might be republican to california you know the upper midd classes is democratic so the is panics follow that lead um so I can't tell you know exactly where you go.

How does trump change that? I mean IT feels and dotted like a lot of that american immigrants like trump.

You mean what what trump has done as is taken the appeal of the republican party, uh, dow scale compared to, say, mitt romney, uh, MIT pretty a good job of holding on on this suburban upper middle class, the frequent fire population. Uh, corporate execute IT isn't things like that. They feel that one with him.

Uh, you know trump is picking up working class people of all races. Uh, that's good. But you know IT also was kind of taking, uh, the republican party downtown.

E um you know you're getting more dumb conspiracy theories out of republicans. It's said on, you know it's if if can the republicans keep some competent to higher brow people around? That's another question. Think I mean a big a big question is how much is this totally A A A hit a trumps personality?

I mean, you know twenty, twenty, twenty, twenty four IT look like on the santis had like studied trump and said, okay, trumps got some interesting new ideas and post on the ideas and i'm the competent uh well educated guy who reads all the fine printed and I can implement some of these and that didn't seem like a bad pitch um but just want to didn't go over at all. As soon as the democrat started arresting trump for all or two charges then you know that that helps solve the democratic not nightmares or that the republicans have been to nominated a component forty something to run against the octogenarian pete. And so now we were stuck with a, with a rerun. The isn't.

that's what IT was IT.

The legal persecution .

of trump IT .

seemed like that blunted the santis. And basically republicans went back to trop, went like, well, the democrats are going to do that then we're not going to stand by ah you know arresting a major candidate is on amErica and its it's totally shameful in the nine states history and the democrats didn't get in the way and go like, oh s let's not do that. They let local politicians know to run a mock like this new york case.

H and so they got, they ve got the nominee. They wanted Donald trump. But now they're real worried that they're going to get the president.

They don't want Donald trump. So we shall see. So you're .

the reason that you've emerged from your Kevin tor bora coming to the sorry um is because you ve got a book yeah so beautiful looking book um and it's collected uh journalis m 00 seventy three to twenty twenty three um you don't look at old but it's called noticing what .

does that mean yeah hold IT up here I mean， it's that's a slogan that I took up from George orwell, who said that to to see what's in front of one's nose takes a constant effort. And i'm trying to make IT easier for people to notice the realities that they see around them, and to to understand that what they see with their own lying eyes in their daily life is also actually validated by the best, the social sciences.

And that there aren't these two different realms of existence, this kind of todd y sublots ary. One where we make decisions about what neighborhoods our families live in and what's what are good schools for the and then this this hire more the realm of the science, the world of data. Yeah, the world data.

That proves that all those things you notice in your daily life can't possibly be true because then that would be a stereotype. And my view is not all connected. There's just one reality out there goes from your personal anecdotes to what people might dismiss as annic data to bud data and IT all tells pretty much the same story. So but why is that?

I mean, that we don't mean to get over. But I just knows from the very beginning, I never knew anyone. I know people died of that.

I never knew anyone who died of of IT. I did know someone who died from the facts and the number other people were injured pretty conclusively by the vacs. That doesn't mean that more people were injured by the vacs and died of coffee. I'm not saying that, but then I start to ask around you know anyone that you know anyone like actually no one have your dinner with anyone who later go by the x and I don't think i've ever met a single person didn't have the same answer I did. Whether that's reality or not, I still don't know, but I do know that there's been such an effort to tell me that i'm crazy for noticing that.

Yeah, one thing I used to do was go through the list of, uh, on wikipedia of prominent people who have died of covered. And thing I noticed about IT was that they were almost all people who are no longer in their primes that oh, like, I saw like, go baseball pitch hall of famer tom sever died at age seventy y four covet. And then I i'd looked up a little more about him and like, well, you know, he probably would had another good couple of decades going to old timers, games and stuff like that but then he turned out that he did drop out of public life the year before because he had dementia and parkinson.

yeah just .

general they didn't have a good life ahead of him um and so I think that's one of the things that was going on was that coit was really taking a toll among people who who would passed their primes and were told the last decade of their lives and weren't no longer in the public eye and so that sort of helps explain the thesis. Yeah there was a lot of COVID death. The entire sis that like, you know, it's sound like anybody I was like met and I knew at work dropped out of COVID and then you get the synthesis of like, oh yes, IT is mostly a killed off people who were who were probably close to retirement, retired in ill health from other things and so on.

So I think this situation is the point of social science. To point was to bring the principles of science, of the scientist method to bear on the world just right around us, and to make IT clear what we are actually seeing. I think yeah and but IT seems like it's used, at least over the past several years, has been to do the opposite, which is too obscure what we're actually seeing, living, experiencing and tell us history. This is true.

Yeah yeah.

imagination?

No, it's the issue is much data has piled up uh that you can we can now answer quite a few questions that were beyond our capability beforehand. I mean um and the answers we keep getting are the politic are generally politically incorrect ones that were anticipated by the bad people, the Charles memories and James q Wilsons in the twenty in the twenty eighth century um so for example, we have an enormous amount of data from DNA tells us about our racial ancestry and what have we discovered in that in this century to the the conventional wisdom that race does not biologically exist to be proven of course not you can you can call up ancestry dot com or twenty three and me and it'll tell you your race to three three digits you know it'll tell you, you know if if you're jewish, she'll tell you, you know you're forty nine point eight percent oh kanai or other data is piling up but there's a harvard economic name, rosh chi, whose done phenomenal work talking government bureaucracies until letting him work with totally confidential data like like the tax returns of everybody in the country and so he can do studies. Nobody had ever had the hood spot a dream before that they never get their hands on the data.

So for example, he gets, he he track twenty one million americans across thirty years of their lives from you looked at how much money their parents made in the one thousand nine hundred ninety, and then he looked at things like where they in jail on census stage, january, April first t to thousand and ten, when they were about thirty years old. And so then he could plot out what's what are the odds of a of a man being in jail based on how poor, richest parents were? And not surprisingly, poor, poor guys who grew up poor go to jail a lot more.

But he could also answer, using data from the census year, or what the race was of all twenty one million of his people. And he discovered, in general, black, who had the exact same income as Whites growing up as kids in the nineties, but on two thousand, in two thousand and ten were in jail, three to ten times more often than Whites, who their exact peers in terms of family income. And this, this is like, well, I never expected somebody.

They will come up with that. And IT goes, yeah. So when people wonder why blacks in jail, more often is that is that poverty and poverty plays a role.

But even without poverty, you take IT all the way at the highest level. Black, the highest percent. Tile blacks go to jail about ten times as often as as the richest White school. So we're able to answer all sorts of social science questions these days, but nobody likes the answers they're getting.

What does seem like when we finally. Unraveled the human genome, which was right around the time the bulk of came out yes um that's when the whole conversation got shut down yeah maybe we had too much information.

Yeah 我 what happened？ At a ceremony the bill clinton put on in the presidential rose garden in two thousand for the human genome project， uh, they just sort of made progress decoding a single genome, which was mostly that of entrepreneur g who had helped out enormously. And crag got up and made a speech that was exactly what the site guys wanted to hear.

He said, we've looked at the human genome, or his human genome, and we discovered the one thing you can see in IT is race. There is no difference whatsoever genetically between different genomes in terms of racial ancestry. While then within three, four, five years the evidence was piling up, was like, now actually, you can tell exactly what the history of people is.

That became A A sizable business very quickly. But as far as I can tell, a huge for action the population remembers hearing that the science is proven that race doesn't exist genetically. And they've never rethought IT since that two thousand of speech by venture standing next to bill clinton.

Um so people people want to believe some things. They want to believe that the science is prove in all of this this anti racist uh, dog must they get told and they just sort of ignore that. Not actually moving the other direction and time that we it's time that we think realistically about know what the data is telling us. And personally, I don't think it's the end of the world by any means. And I think like we can all get along pretty well known, knowing the realities, but a lot of people are just terrified of them and basically want to lie about IT.

I mean, the way that previous civilizations held together in the face of knowledge of genetic and racial differences, which are obviously real, but they weren't always work with themselves. And one of ways they did that was by believing in a religious doctrine that said, god created everybody. Therefore, despite whatever differences we have, we are all of equal value without that overall, which we no longer have. How do you keep a society together in the in the face of these realities?

Yeah, I mean, the democrats have been moving to the, you know, told, told, I sort of not see type solution of having a scape gold was who unites everybody else by being the locus of evil, namely a Whites, or, you know, the way the democratic IT works. It's all sorts of circles within circles. So you get more pocomoke intor.

Being on White, you get diversity points for being a woman. You get more diversity points if you were born a man. It's sea um but yeah unifying around the skeared goat population that does not have a good track record.

What happens in the end?

What happens in the end? We do not does does IT get worse or one one of the things we see maybe over the last years, people just objecting to IT and pushing back and laughing at the conventional wisdom and scoping at IT and saying, you know, you guys are just making this up. It's not true. You're just saying IT, so you can get D I, money and easy, cynically jobs. And no, we don't believe this.

One thing ambitious people are doing, and you written about this, is just denied being White .

yeah and the .

flight from White.

what is that for? Flight from White has a lot of different dimensions. It's people, it's kids applying to college and remembering their grandmother was the irish grandmother was born in point as iris before he went back to ireland and in argentina the .

way this country in the .

world yeah and it's .

a stupid but it's .

also happening at the the government level, the census and so forth for so the bite in the ministration just recently announced that they're allowing middle easterners and north africans to no lot to have their own racial category M E N A so that they don't have the the unprofitable, ignoring ious fate of of having to check White to the occasion um and this this has a long tradition in the eight states you'll go back to in the one thousand nine seventy self asians were h classified as White.

But that really annoying the sala ian business men. They because e station business men, we're getting all sorts of low interest loans from the sba as a minority. They were getting contracting preferences on government deals. And the south asian said, if we just got off the airplane, we should be getting those deals too.

And so the south asian organizations got themselves declared, uh, to be asian and grouped in with the with the oriental and form the new asian group so they could get these these good deals from the government that White people are not entitled to. And so that there was an early example of flight from White. You see IT with the espana s increasingly, originally when the espana category was created, IT was set up so the panics could get good deals from the government and good, good formative action benefits. But without actually declaring themselves to be racially White, because a lot of them were kind of took pride in their they took racist pride in their blue blooded spanish heritage, age and so forth.

There's an off america.

Something increased so they could set up a separate ethnicity for his panics so you could get all the informative action benefits without actually admitting your shame of being White. But enough time has gone by that you know only your you know your fuentes types any more are like really publicly White racist from lad in amErica and and now it's more prestigious to declare your cellphone racially i'm his panic even though nobody is exactly sure what that means.

What what does that mean? I'm confused to because IT, would that include brazil, which is of course a different language is not right in a different corneal power and but of course, it's a multi racial country, heavily black country as our as cuba, which should spend with I mean, it's like I don't understand what what does the word mean?

Yes, is because our brazilians and portuguese included in his panics, or they loose lusatia ics and and according to a book I read by David, category ized ed, I believe, is called law professor. He said that most of the federal government will not give you a break on federal contracting.

If you, if you put on your brazilian except the department of transportation, then they'll give you a racial preferences for bidding on highway overpass or something like that. If you're brazilian, they'll i'll include them in his his panics. So it's we will we live in a society that's increasingly mixed in terms of ancestors. We have more and more people coming out who are a quarter this and a quarter that, and there's lots of money on the table. And as as long as you're not as long as you don't declare yourself White, you've got opportunities to to get free.

This can go on go before this blows up the country. I mean, is there any chance of getting back to an a race blind posture, officially ally, by the, by the federal government. I mean, people you can have whatever points do you want on race. I mean, but the government, which represents everybody, has to treat american citizens equally. Citizens is or any hope .

for that mean the supreme court nominally outlaw from of action and colleges, like because harvard was clearly, clearly discriminating against asians. On the other hand, we'd left huge loopholes like, oh well yeah you can write about your race in your essay and you know the missions department can then go on this kid is you know black so we'll give him fifty extra poke on points on this application.

Um I mean the one issue is that the that asian students are pulling away so fast from everybody else in terms of things like S A T scores, that the the asian black gaps are opening up so widely that if you go to total color blind college missions at the high end wind up with a campus with very, very few blacks qualifying to get in and a huge number versions and places like harvard really worry about whether they might turn out like yoga as former favorite restaurant that got so popular that nobody goes there anymore. So if if harvard becomes fifty six percent asian, are asians gna consider harvard cool? Or do asians want to go to places that there's a lot of light White people there? No, nobody really knows.

Uh, you know what I don't. What I don't know is whether the the asian rise, the rise in asian S A T scores is completely legitimate, and they just really have been getting so much smarter than everybody else in the twenty first century. The asian tesco's are pulling away from the field like secretary in the one thousand nine hundred and seventy three bell mt, or, you know, there be other reasons.

Yeah.

could IT be. I mean, we know there's a lot of cheating in asia self on the S. A. T.

I think people bring their bad habits when they come here to you.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, nobody can possibly communicate across the pacific ocean and thousand and the vice wide, how could anybody text message what was on the test? Or you know, just the the enormous amount of tiger mother prepped that to asians, brought with them from there to thousand year old tradition of taking test to become Mandans and and doing enormous amounts and test prep for years.

Or is IT is the or there's possible technical reasons that the the people making the S A T of criticize for one thing or another for discriminating and black and latinos, so they keep doing things like, let's get through analogies and that'll be farer. But the winds up just benefiting the asian s most of all. H there was more of when the head analogies IT was IT was harder to memorize, apparently. And the test prompt in work as well took a certain models, activity and the inside in the brain and um but the university of california demanded getting rid of analogies about twenty years ago so the college board said, yeah sure you're a biggest customer. I'll do what you want and then things just sort of got worse after they act in.

But but there has been a noticeable rise, relative rise .

in a huge sense, the year two thousand. And I think basic leaps, we should have been a blue riband commissioned or look into like what's going on exactly with the S A T. You know, I mean, that's that's one reason. But IT, can you i'm sorry to press .

you say that does IT still matter. I mean, is that the trend of schools getting rid of the S. T. requirement?

Is that really they are definitely all happened that during covered and the racial reckoning at once, all the colleges and well they had they had to cancel some some S A T tests because they had to be six feet apart and I couldn't fit in classroom room at uh and then then they all decided to, due to the racial reckoning, that they weren't going to take SAT. And in fact, they make IT go totally test optional.

In the university, california went further. They ban the applicants from to submitting any kind of test score. And then what happened was that the colleagues started noticing, like why these kids who are showing up that we let in, they're not very bright.

They are not going to become computer science graduates of mi. So mi t was the first one that what this was stupid. We're going one back to demanding, uh, standardize tests.

And now harvard jumped on board. Everybody accept you to receive california at the elite level is moving in that direction. Uh because IT was so IT is .

IT is a measure to tude e yeah .

and the it's it's a very good measure of aptitude. IT tells gp a high school gp a is a great measure but it's hard to compare schools. Some schools are hard in grades. Some are easy um having having this uh having a test and having high school grades, you can point together and they work pretty well. But because because of the racial gap that have been around forever and these things, uh IT was decided during the racial reckoning that that absolutely proves as IBM x kindi has demonstrated by scientific logic that um the only reason some races might be doing Better than other races is because of the evil of widness but of course what IT turns out, asians are doing much.

much Better and because the evil avoids um .

because nobody really knows, because nobody y's that interested in studying IT because that sounds like kind of think you could get cancelled for finding out. And um just in general, we have a lot of problems that have been swept under the rug in in recent years because they don't fit within the ideologies, the wk ideologies um and just to to think about him this kind of dangerous a sounding when the .

planes start crashing .

yeah will .

people start thinking about .

him I I hope so. I, me, my my father worked for locky from the late thirties to one thousand nine hundred and eighty and when one of his planes crashed, uh, he'd spent two months on the side because one of plane hits the ground that spreads out over a mile or so, picking up all the pieces of the plane so they could we assemble IT and there's a jigsaw puzzle and figure out why I crashed, and also picking up pieces of the pilots and the passengers and so forth.

And over know the last hundred years people poor picked because they were smart and hard working. I've done a whole lot of good at getting airplanes so they don't crash very much anymore. Now boeing maybe working on reversing a lot of that history.

But um yeah you know we we got a lot Better at things by having systems to find the people who are competent and work hard. And now the light is in the twenty first century has been moving away from that. Uh, well, we've see a lot of planes crashing.

God, I hope not. But you know we need to to, we need to, to make a hundred eighty degree you turn in terms of what we value, whether it's competitor to diversity. And lately, diversities been winning, and that's gonna get people killed.

Is there a point? I mean, I ask these questions because south africa, you know tried in the country, is just continuously degraded for half three adds this year. Add to the point where there's no ctrace ity in part at times and the murdering ors among the higher in the world.

And rapide is the highest in the world. And but there's no declaration that I can tell from a far thousands months way but i'm watching and it's like, no there's no second guessing. It's just like going to write you write back to the stone age pretend IT was never advances society in our country, which is different from south africa in a water ways. Will there be a point like when the planes do crash and the air traffic control is high or too dumb or distraction don't care, uh, to keep the points from crashing? Will there be a public demand like now which is higher viability from now on?

Well, what we've seen is what we saw with what we talked about earlier, homicides and car crashes, a huge increase says and we seen some push back against that. But do you know the establishment doesn't really want to talk about why that happened um because h it's embarrassing for them. On the other hand, the airplanes, you know important people fly a lot more than an important people do.

And that's one reason we have like pretty strict rules about who can be a pilot. There is a playing crash in two thousand congresswomen. Take a lot of flights to get back to their home district.

one in .

buffer yeah so they immediately passed some wars that made IT, made IT harder to become a pilot. And um there hasn't been a fatal plane crash in the american airliner but since then. And you know some of that is we just we got really good pilots these days, part because Carriers and worry about stuff like that.

Um now we yes, but on the other hand that the obama administration came along and basically sabotaged the system for hiring uh, air traffic controllers and congress has set up a pretty good system for findings. Good people in the nineties but yeah turned out of its like White men really like ultra, they really like airplanes. It's slike like know what what a White men ever done with airplanes since the right brothers so there there were too many White.

So the obama administration came up with a totally absurd, corrupt test for to hire more black guys. And so what happens is then you get fewer people, still make a make IT through the training. So the training is being kept pretty legitimate.

So you flunk out more people, which that means that you you under the number of air traffic controllers you expected. So you you're making them the work really long hours and they're getting more and more tired on the job and they're making mistakes and stuff like that. And IT tracks back to the obama administration's di program for for air traffic controllers.

Uh, can we avoid that? Yeah we we can. We just got ta talk about IT, and we just can't just shut down discussion by saying, are you saying that you know the stereotype that on average black wouldn't make as good arc traffic controllers as Whites? And the answers i'm saying that you expect up of the percentage passing the test and we can live with that. We live with IT every day in sports that there are racial differences in performance on average, rich and nobody cares that much and do know, god blessing that we ve love sports. So yeah, there there is hope for the country that we can go back and have a philosophy for, know for things like jeet, ravel, that were we consider IT as important as the nfl and therefore we can't have racial quote is getting in away that doesn't seem out of outlandish no.

he doing so question that and so began with this. But maybe you're I just want push al a more. Why do you think that you are able to have these conversations? And when you travel the country talking about your book, you're not attacked. And no, speaking of good signs, do you take that as a good sign that the countries between open.

Well, yeah, somebody suggested to me it's like, Steve, you're in you're in the best possible positions, the fourth year of democratic president. Everybody sick bite in. But if trump gets elected, then they'll be an enormous effort on the part of the establishment to crack down you honest dissident voices that lead to horrible outcomes like trump getting reelected.

And if if biden wins, then don't go go. We've got four more years um and we we really got to change things. So we never let trump t win. A trumps type people win again.

So h IT IT could be H A short term fw or IT could be that enough people have noticed uh and have been empowered by changes like you on mosque opening up twitter so that you know I I can have one hundred and twenty five thousand followers, just the the accumulation of little changes like that that you know these ideas that i've been propounding for thirty years and have people out there going sailor's ideas that makes sense. He is like the most reasonable guy in america. Um maybe you know we've gone through a water shed and we're beyond the mini, the racial reckoning and the greater opening uh not kind of what I hope so.

Or this period in ten years and now, as described as the dark ages where Steve sailor was actually in public face uncovered.

I mean, what you think I mean, all right, let me ask you why why mean particular that I that I became sort of the lord voldemort whose this name cannot be cannot be mentioned when i'm just, you know, this kind of to my mind is very kind of public spirit benevolent guy who can see both sides of various problem well.

I ve always thought that um i've always said that you were particularly threatened because you're so obviously moderate by temperament. You're just clearly not a hater. You can smell that on people instantly.

You're very reasonable and you use the language that the left would like to keep for itself, like of science, of reason, of data and and you actually argue from that basis and they'd like a monopoly on that. And so they're something really threatening that guys like no actually know here the numbers and doesn't raise voice. That's way more threatening .

than .

some guys jump in up and down on cable news er sending craze tweet all day along that personal is his potential audience is much smaller than yours potential dies is like, you know what of any open minded person like to solve a problem that's .

always been my thought yeah yeah so. But yeah yeah it's it's been no a long strange trip but .

did they bother you and they called you and not see your White supreme sister when .

they threw these slices at you for I mean I didn't IT seemed ridiculous um but I did also didn't seem like IT also seems like what they want to do is get you into a position where it's like, oh, i'm not one of those horrible people here's these six guys are the really horrible people and give me to condemn people uh you know get to drive them out of publicity you know kind of the way, you know you hear, uh, liberals talking about what a great thing about wenamon bucky was he cracked down on pet b can in and right and I never met mr.

buckley. No, I worked for national review. I wrote for national review in the nineties, uh, but I did. I did meet to mr. Bu canin and know pat was a great guy.

I mean, I mean, one of my last memories of my father before he died at ninety five, was pets sent me one of his new books, and he gone through and put posted notes on every page where he quoted me or made reference to some concept of mine. So I showed up to my dad, and he read IT. He looked through at all the things that padded with his own handed and said all the nice things he'd said about me and was like, wow, you're, this was great. And you know, that was like the last thing, last interaction before he died in, I think pat buchanan for IT. And a lot of people, I have good stories about pat.

you can. And what a nice man. Yes.

absolutely no. So I mean, I guess you .

could kind of go either way. That depends on who's writing the history. And D, D, bet money that you pei canada is described in fifty years when is not A A single living person you actually knew him um you know some sort monster hater, something like that when you think.

yeah I mean, I mean they say histories written written by the winners. My impression is more histories written by historians who got paid by one side or the other, not necessarily the winners, to write the history. So for one hundred years after the civil war in the eight states, the south, which was mostly pretty bro, but they could still scrape together enough money to pay historians to write the story, the lost cause. And some most of our history books, we're kind of biased in figure in the south. Um you know what's how we're gona remember you know how to him I don't know who um but you know IT IT could go IT IT could change very much and know maybe maybe we'll have different heroes of the sudden that's maybe maybe you and me i'll look come out looking pretty good because.

I have trouble believing that, but I I .

admire me, but still so .

thank you very much.

great. Thank you. talk. thanks.

Thanks for listen and tucker cross and show. If you enjoy IT, you can go to talk a cross, sing that calm to see everything that we have, made the complete library talk her croson dot com.