Being a Mom Isn’t What I Thought It’d Be
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We have a seven-month-old, and we are super blessed. You already have some deep, deep mom guilt about what you're about to tell me, and what? And she is colicky as all sin. Oh, jeez. I'm having a really hard time seeing those around me enjoying this season. What's going on? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. A show about your marriage, your mental health, your emotional health, joy, laughter, fun, grief.

Hard, hard stuff. Tough seasons. Not knowing what to do next. That's what this show is about. My promise is I'll sit with you and we will figure out what to do next. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291.

or go to johndeloney.com slash ask A-S-K. Quick reminder, I get loads, loads and loads and loads and loads of requests via DMs. I don't even read those. I don't check on them. And so I do check my DMs, but if it's like a personal topic, I don't read it. I skip it and move on. So if you want to be on the show, social media is not the place. Call 1-844-693-3291 or...

or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. All right, let's go out to Albany, New York and talk to the one and only Abigail. Hey, Abigail, what's happening? Hi, it's me, the one and only. The one and only. Hi, John. How's it going? I'm trying. Oh, man. Well, thanks for coming to hang out. Pull up a seat. What's up?

Thank you. I've been listening since 2020. It's crazy to think it's been four years. I never would have imagined that I am where I am now. Yeah, me neither. Good grief. Oh, I don't even know where to start. Just cannonball in. Just cannonball in. Hey, do me a favor. Take a big, big, deep breath.

And exhale it. And I know that you psyched yourself up and you were like, you're not going to be the one on the show that has to take a deep breath. And so it's okay. It's all right. It's all right. So what's happening?

We are in one of those tough seasons right now, my husband and I. We have a seven-month-old, and we are super blessed. She is mostly healthy. We didn't have much trouble conceiving. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Can I stop you right there? Everything's great. I know it's too soon to stop you, but I'm going to. Yeah. I can tell...

You already have some deep, deep mom guilt about what you're about to tell me. And so you feel like you have to preface it with all of these great things so you can cosmically balance it out before you hit the other side. Whatever you're about to say, you as a new mom and a new mom trying to figure out how to be married as a new mom, all of that mess, you're allowed to be sad. You're allowed to be frustrated. You're allowed to be sick to your stomach. You're allowed to have all those things. Okay? So you don't have to preface it with, I know I'm blessed and I know you had it.

there's going to be no negative like YouTube comments from me. Okay. Yeah. You're good. Whatever you're going through is right. Okay. All right. So your baby is mostly healthy. You are blessed and what? And she is colicky is all thin. She's out of her mind and she's, she's got really bad reflux. So, you know, she's on daily medications for that. Um,

And she, I think at baseline, she is just a really difficult, high-need baby. So add in physical discomfort and she is a whirlwind. It's been really, really hard. Sit with me on that for a second. I'm just going to say these things out loud. Stop me if I'm wrong, okay? Yeah. You have a pretty good husband? Yeah, he's great. Y'all were going to have this beautiful family and it was going to look like this.

Whatever this is, it was going to feel like this. You're going to be one of those moms, one of those wives. He was going to be one of those dads. And you probably have some stupid friend whose baby's the best baby ever. Yeah. And then you get this angel who won't shut up, right? Like just screams and screams and screams and screams. Is that about right? Yeah, that is exactly right. I hate this for you. I hate it.

I hate it for that little baby and the discomfort, and I hate it for you, and I hate it for your husband, I hate it for your marriage, I hate it for that picture you had. It's really hard being able to see how different things could look like, if she was more comfortable, if her temperament might have been a little bit different, and I'm having a really hard time seeing those around me enjoying this season when there's not been a thing enjoyable. Screw them. Forget them. Forget them.

Okay. Cause it's, it's a, it's like getting married and not turning off your, your, your hinge account, right? It's like buying a house and keeping the Zillow listings open. Like this is your baby and choosing to enter into the space of other people's babies and what they have. It's a choice to make yourself a little more miserable in an already miserable season. Absolutely. My, my,

my best friend's baby is three months younger than mine and they struggled in a lot of different ways. IVF, you know, the whole nine yards. So they had a really tough journey to get here and getting here has been great now that he's here. And so, you know, we're going back and forth and

I'm trying to listen to her daily complaints and support her in the same way she supports me. And I'm having a hard time not being like, man, you're not struggling right now. It's okay. All right. Can I say something out loud? I want to be there for her. Yeah. I feel terrible. I keep interrupting you and I feel awful. I just feel like I would ask your permission to hug you if you were here and your husband. And so I'm sorry to keep interrupting. I know that's rude of me.

But hear me say directly, Abigail, she is not better at this than you. She is not a better mom than you. She is not better at taking care of her baby than you. She's not. Okay? Yeah. Just sucks. By the way, anger is good. Being mad is good. Anger is just simply points you towards something that you wanted it a certain way and it's not, or it was supposed to be a certain way and it's not. Anger is good. You're not a bad mom because you get angry that this kid won't stop screaming.

And this is supposed to be some beautiful moment and the kid is ruining it. The kid's going to ruin lots of other moments. So it's got, is what it is, right? Um, let me ask you this. Is your rage against the baby? Is your upsetness or is it against the way you were so desperate to have it? It has been. Um, and when I fight really hard to not focus that energy on the baby, it's, it's on the world. Okay. So that was my next question is the rage against the baby. Um,

Or is the anger against feeling powerless? Both. Okay. Most of the time, parents, when they first are faced with the fact that someone's going to break their kid's heart, that someone's going to get in a wreck and hit their kid, that their kid's going to fail a class, there's that powerless feeling, and parents react all different ways. Anxious, depressed, overbearing, hide, they run, they get mad at the world. Your response is your response, okay? I just want you to know, I'm trying to say, I want you to know you're not broken, and it's not the baby's fault. It just is.

Yeah. And it sucks. So can I ask you a hard John Deloney question? Yeah, of course. Seven months in, now this has turned and it's messing with your marriage. Now it's turned, it's messing with your friendships. Now it's turned and it's messing with that incredible mom and woman that you see in the mirror every day. Is the anger and rage and frustration, is it helping?

No, it's helping nothing. So I'm trying to let go and be in the moment more, but it's like our tolerance for this as she gets better, somehow it gets lower. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's like, because you, you got that from some awesome mom magazine. Just be present in the moment. No kid won't stop screaming. Right? Like it's easy to be like, you know what? You should meditate more. And there's fine. Listen, you're not crazy.

This is maddening. It's heartbreaking. It's not what you pictured and it's not forever. And I would be really hesitant to cast character judgments on your kid. Like they have X or Y kind of temperament. Maybe. Yeah. But maybe your baby's just allergic to the way your body processes milk or something. Who knows? Right?

Yeah. And so whatever is going on is going on. I have heard of some success with GI doctors. I'm sure you've gone down every road you can go down. Oh, yeah. We had a GI appointment yesterday. Our formula is $800 a month. We're doing everything. Good God almighty. Okay. And maybe Kidney's $30 formula from Walmart. Oh, man. I'm going to get some hate on that one. Here's the thing. Not forever. Right? Yeah. So...

Anytime I sit down with a family and they're dealing with something like this, like our baby's really hard or baby's sick. Or if I sit down with a family who's got a child who's got a terminal something or other, I always tell them less, like how do we handle the kid? What conversations we need to have? What things we need to be doing in the house? We can get to all of those, but I always tell them here's number one. The stats say that this is going to mess up your marriage. And so let's actually start there.

Okay. So I would love for y'all to, this is an obnoxious exercise. It's silly. And y'all are probably gonna be rolling your eyes and laughing, right? You and your poor husband, but I want y'all to do this. This is a, like an exercise in, we're just going to do it to do it. Cause some moron podcast, I'm not saying that anymore. Some podcaster said like, um, to do this, right? So I want y'all to sit on the same side of your kitchen table together. And I want you to get a note card and I want you to write colic on it.

And I want you to set it in the middle of the table, arms length away from you. And I want you both to look at Colic for 30 seconds while you're holding hands and say no words. Just time it. Just stare at that word. That is the bad guy here. Not your husband who's getting frustrated at you getting frustrated. Not your husband who is just kind of fed up and he's got to go to work and he's got to sleep too. And why don't you, I, one of us has to all that stuff that happens.

And then why can't you just be happy and he's not grieving enough and you're grieving too much or vice versa. Y'all are on the same team. Okay. That's a simple, silly 30 second exercise, but I want it to be. And then I want y'all to make a plan. How do we stay together? How do we get tighter at the end of this thing? Not further apart from each other. What does that mean? You're going to have to say, here's what I need. Here's what I want. Do we have signals? We have plans. Do you already have that? Or y'all just fly by night?

This took a toll on us really, really quickly. We were really good at passing back and forth and trying to stay recharged, but she's so amped up that we both can't stay charged. Of course, there you go. Which really just was detrimental to us as a unit. And in the past couple months, we've really focused on us and things are kind of better than ever between us. Excellent. Oh, so good, so good. And we're just trying to fight to stay there. Perfect. Okay, do you have friends that you call?

No. Okay. You are not a bad mom by calling somebody and saying, I'm at the end of my rope. I need you to come hold my baby for 30 minutes while I go for a walk. In fact... I don't have anyone. Okay. I want you just to get on the phone and figure it out. Yeah. Okay. Call a local teenager. Call a kid. Call a... And again, you're not running away. And I say call a kid. Like my son, when he was 10 or 11, he would go to somebody's house and they were frustrated or they were cleaning and they were doing something and...

Plus played Legos. Whatever the thing is, right? And I know people, he's a screamer, whatever. But you know what I'm saying. If you have to hire somebody, hire somebody. We've been so scared to. I know. Because, sorry. Go for it. You're okay. You're okay. It's super dark and a lot of people don't admit that, but

When you struggle to not be angry at your own baby, when you struggle with intrusive thoughts about your baby, I mean, if I struggle with it, how would a stranger deal with it? The stranger knows exactly what they're walking into. And here's what the stranger's doing. They get 30 minutes or an hour to help out a friend. And not, oh my gosh, this mom is so bad. That's what you think's going to happen. They're going to come in and go, oh my gosh, this woman's amazing and she does this 24-7, 365. Yeah.

And all you can see is the thoughts that you have, the ones that scare you, and you project those into everybody else's head. It's not true. It would be such a, and here's the thing. Here's what the baby gets. A mom with a centimeter more capacity. That's a gift. Yeah. Okay. So I want you to set the judgment of yourself down. I want you to set the judgment of your family unit down. I want you to set any of those stories that you're making up, set them down and reach out for somebody.

Do you have a neighbor that will come by and hold your kid? Do you have anything? I have someone in mind. I've got a client who's been begging to watch her who's amazing. Okay. Say, I need 30 minutes. I need two hours. And by the way, this kid is going to scream the whole time, and I'm going to double your rate. Whatever. You are less being a babysitter, and you are more being a mommy savior. Right? Yeah. See what I'm saying? Okay, here's number whatever. I'm just making these things up. Instead of comparing to friends, I want you to reach out to them.

Okay. So I want you to have an open conversation with your friend. Hey, we're really struggling. Your baby's amazing. It's awesome. There may be days that I call you for 30 minutes or for an hour. It would be a real gift and I'll return the favor. And maybe your friend will get a dose of, oh, right. And I also want to promise you this as much as they're painting, whatever picture they're painting is not true. It's not, it's not what you're going through, but it's not perfect. Right. Okay.

I want you to begin to write down your thoughts and I know you're terrified to put them on paper, but I want you to get them out of your head because they're killing you. Yeah. Okay. Do you have somebody you can talk to? Um, at, uh, regarding therapy at the moment? No. Okay. Um, that's a must. I tried when she was born and got a referral, um, and was told 12 weeks and I'm still waiting. Find somebody else. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I need to make the time.

Take the time. But saying these things out loud and having somebody not flinch, like I'm not flinching. Hope you can hear my voice. I'm not flinching. You got thoughts just shooting all through your mind. Okay. But write them down, get them out of your body. You're not going to keep them. You'll shred them. You'll burn them. Whatever you want to do with them. It's probably not a journal you want your friends to find. You definitely want your kid to find it later, right? Yeah. But I want you to get them out of your head because then here's the deal. When you get them out of your head, you can look at them and you can do the one. One of my favorite exercises in the world is the demand. Is this true? Is this true? I wish I'd never had this baby. Is that true?

No. My husband sucks. He's the worst. He doesn't love me or support me. Is that true? No. Right? You get them out of your head and you can begin to challenge them. Yeah. Okay. You know this isn't forever. And this is one other thing. I read about this. Don't know if it's true or not. Again, there's a few more annoying things than having some man tell some new mom what she could be doing. Right? That's the worst. It's the worst. But here we go.

I have heard that maybe a possible potential secret, particularly if dietary things aren't changing anything, is that some kids like noise. And so this sounds counterintuitive, but maybe taking a crying baby out on the subway, taking a quiet baby out into, I mean, a yelling baby out into where it's loud, sometimes quiets them up.

We live on a busy street and we go to the end of the driveway and watch the cars. Okay, there you go. So maybe that's it. Maybe sitting in the room with the washer and dryer going and the vacuum going and you have headphones on, maybe that's it. I'm so tired of vacuuming. I know. I'm not talking about vacuuming. I'm just saying like, turn it on, but just to create some noise. That's one of our tools, yeah. I think we're past tools at this point. You and your husband are smart and y'all have got Google. Y'all can figure those things out.

The bigger deal is this. You're not crazy. And you cannot do all this by yourself. Yeah. Okay? And it's okay to be angry and it's okay to be frustrated. I don't want you to assume you said something earlier, like me and my husband have come closer together and we're just trying to hang on to it. Let's be really intentional about hanging on. Let's meet once a week.

One out of 10. How are you? I'm a four. I'm a seven. No way. Cool. You just got crying baby duty early on this week, right? And then we'll work together. But I want you to be really, really intentional about it. Is that fair? Yeah. That's like the only thing that helps. Okay. And we're going to start bringing some friends into this. Yeah. Okay. Do you trust me that you're good at this?

I think if we had a calm baby, we'd be crushing it right now. No, if you had a calm baby, if you had a calm baby, you would be under an illusion that y'all are amazing. When I had my son, I remember, I don't know if I've told this on the show. My wife was a professor. I was a professor. We had my son and after about six months or no, it was about a year later,

I remember telling my wife over dinner, we're amazing at this. Every other parent is an idiot. Why don't we quit our jobs and go on the road and just teach people how to be parents? And then my daughter came. Yeah. Then I realized, I don't know anything. I know no things, right? I don't know anything on the planet, right? So the illusion is, the challenge is you're imagining, man, if it was just this, then everything would be better. It wouldn't be. I promise you, it'd be different. Now, you're in hell. You're in misery, right? And we want this baby to quit screaming? Yes, no question about it.

But fantasizing about what it could be is a waste of energy. It's a waste of time and it's not true because you don't know. You don't know. But you know you love your husband. You know you love this baby and you know your baby won't stop screaming. And we know this isn't forever. Get those thoughts out of your head. Get yourself connected. Get some other people. Invite them in. Nobody's going to judge you as harshly as you judge yourself. I'm proud of you for reaching out and I'm grateful for you. We need more moms who care about their kids and more moms who want to do this right. It's been a blessing.

Stay on the line. I'm going to send you building a non-anxious life as my gift to you and your husband can use it. It has nothing to do with a colicky baby, but I feel like I want to give you something and I can't give you a hug. So thanks for being on the show. We'll be right back.

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I'm jumping right into it. My question, I pretty much cut off all contact with my family, including my mom, dad, and my two siblings. Yikes, what happened? Oh, just enough was enough emotionally. Just tired of the hurt and disappointment. And I made that decision about eight years ago as I was going through therapy and I

But my question is, my parents are now 75, and I know their time is coming soon. I dream often that if I didn't reach out and try to heal our relationship, I'm going to regret it. And I still can't pick up the phone every day.

And it's not unforgiveness to what's happened. It's more that my life is so much more peaceful without any of them in it. So I struggle with this. It's daily and it's consuming. It's affected my immediate family because of my barriers and fears. And so...

But I just can't, the thought of talking to them just makes me physically nauseous and just, I just can't do it. Yeah, so you sound trapped, like you can't reach out and call them. You've tried, you've tried, you've stared at that phone and you're starting to, that gnawing shadow sense that you can't not call them.

Right, because I don't want it to hold... Because regardless of me not having contact with them, they still have the power over me, even in this situation. Well, and that's my question to you is, you're not fully well yet. Oh, no. Because they still haunt you. Oh, yeah. So tell me what you're hanging on to. I don't know. I mean, just the...

Just so hurt and betrayed and neglected and just, I'm 53. I should be over this by now. No, no, no, no, no, no. Here's what it is. Can I tell you what I think it is? I may be wrong. I think that inside that little girl's still trying to figure out what she did wrong. And the fantasy you have is that one day the thing that you did, you'll finally figure it out and you can finally fix it.

So your mom will say, welcome home, honey. And your dad will say, there's my girl. And so the scary hard part is you didn't do anything wrong. You're a kid. And you're right, you're 53 and you're still trying to figure out what did you do? The thing is that they both come to me with, oh, I'll do whatever it takes to fix this. Let's get a mentor. My dad, my mom is just, she's always, it's been abandonment my whole life. So it's, I mean...

It's a pattern, but the more he tries to fix it, it's kind of like, well, now you see what it feels like, you know? I mean, my whole life. What does that get you? It doesn't. And I know that's the pattern. Yeah. It's a cancer. Well, in a strange way, you're becoming him. Yeah. In an effort to teach him what he did to you. You're just doing what he did to you. Like the, the, the thing perpetuates. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. And I can see it. And that's why I reached out because I'm physically affected by it. Of course. Of course. So, so here's, here's, here's my, I'm just going to give you, you and I would have to sit down for a long time and peel back what they did, what they said, where'd you come up with this decision? But let me, here's my guiding rules. Okay. For these kinds of, these kinds of issues.

I always want to, my personal bent is always seeking reconciliation. I believe in that. And I've worked with enough people who've experienced evil trauma to know it's not always possible. And so it's both. But I know this, if the person who hurt you still has control over you, that reconciliation won't happen. You just fall back into the same pattern. If you have set the brick down that your dad gave you when you were young,

And I don't know what it is. Abandonment, abuse, emotional abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse. Who knows what it is? All of those. But if you set it down, and forgiveness, remember this. Forgiveness is not, and I go around and around with colleagues who say like, not everyone is worth forgiving. And my clients don't have to forgive everybody. I would say, okay, but forgiveness is for you. Forgiveness is you saying, I'm not carrying your crap anymore. I'm setting it down. I am free.

It's the great C.S. Lewis talks about hell is locked from the inside. Right. Right. So I am opening the prison and I'm heading out. And then I greet you at the gate because I'm free to come and go. And so you may have heard in some of my earlier episodes, I used to tell people, go to Lowe's and buy a cinder block. Put a couple of pieces of duct tape on that cinder block and get a Sharpie and write the things that happened to you by this man.

Write them on that duct tape. Hold that cinder block. Carry it around your backyard for a while. 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 3 minutes. As long as you can hold it until your arms start burning and your hands get tired. And then take it somewhere in the very backyard and throw it away. Set it down. But let it be a symbolic move. I am done carrying this. I've been to therapy. I've got my own family. I've got my own kids. I am not carrying you anymore. And then tear the tape off. Throw it away.

And if you can do that, but you're going to feel powerless because right now you feel this pseudo weird, I'm in power because now you're following me around. Now you're chasing me. Now I'm abandoning you. And you realize, oh no, I just took the cancer baton and I'm spreading it into my family still. Right. Right? I'm just done. I'm done.

Yeah. So it wasn't them directly. It was what they allowed to happen. Either way, either way. It doesn't. Yeah. I mean, and I just, uh, you're 53, you're 53. How long are you going to carry? How long are you going to carry? I know. How long are you going to carry it? I don't want to carry it anymore. I mean, and maybe that's the question that will never be answered. Why didn't y'all protect me? Yeah. Okay. Why didn't you protect me?

That's it. That's it. Okay. Do you need their protection anymore? No. You're free. No. You're free. No, I... You're free. Hell, the gates of hell, the gates of your hell are locked on the inside. Open the gates. Yeah. Are you married? Oh, yeah, yeah. Do you like that guy? Oh, my God. Okay. He's, like, amazing. You have kids? Yep, we have four. Are they amazing?

Yeah. Squirrely and messy and loud and all the chaos and all the fun? Two older and twins that are just turning 20, but yes, they're why I'm here every day. Do you have friends? Do you have a gang? No, just relocated. So I have one. Okay. You're on the path. You're on the path. Yeah. So you don't need to look for your dad for protection anymore. He had a shot and he botched it. Okay.

So, but how about this communication? Like it's the little things like I haven't talked to my mom since her birthday. I mean, so. Okay. But if you listen, if you talk to your mom for, yeah, it's awkward, but it's awkward because you allow it to be. But is it normal to just talk to someone twice a year or three times a year? If that's the safest thing you've established, then yeah. If that's all they can handle. I have a personal rule. My personal rule is I don't talk to people unless they can hear me. Period.

So when someone bombs my DMs and is like, you don't do this or you don't have it, I can't respond to you because you're not going to hear me. When one of my psychology professor colleagues calls me on the phone and is like, hey, man, I caught your show. You answered it this way. Let's talk about that. That's awesome. Now we're back and forth. Yeah. Right? My mom is amazing, and she's not perfect. My sister, my brother, my dad, they're all amazing, and they're not perfect. I'm not either. And so if my dad says something –

I can call my dad and say, hey, don't say that again. And he'll go, oh, okay, okay. Yeah. Or I can tell my brother, hey, that joke wasn't funny. Too far. He's like, I know. Sorry, sorry, sorry. And trust me, they tell me all those things too, right? Right. Because I can hear them and they can hear me. And if your mom can only handle two or three cards a year, then that's what she can handle. That makes sense. Oh, that makes a lot of sense. But you're sending these cards expecting something more than that card can give.

Right, I'm always thinking this is the time and they're going to say, oh my gosh. That call, listen, that call will never come. It's never, and that's why the communication cut because I just feel tired of thinking this was the time and it's never happened. Okay, but listen to what you just said and it's very important, okay? Okay.

I think we have a culture that cuts ties with family too quickly. Not saying yours. I mean, you're, I trust that you went through hell and that you did what was right, especially in consultation with a professional. I get that. But it was your expectations of what they needed to do and how they needed to do it that they couldn't meet. You cast them as actors in your movie and you got mad at them that they didn't know the lines and they didn't even know they were in a film. Oh my God, that's so true. Okay. I have a, I have a,

Dad, who's in his mid-70s or early 70s, he's a lifetime Texas police officer. I would love for him to grab my face and look me in the eyes and say, I love you and I'm so proud that you are my son. I did a pretty good job with you and you're an amazing man. That tool isn't in his toolkit. And by the way, if he did that, it would freak me out. Right? Yes. Yeah. Dad did write me an amazing card this year for Christmas.

that I will probably at some point get part of it tattooed on my body. Right. Right? And it said... Because that was his capacity, not what he... That's the tools he's got. Yeah. And how am I to get mad at the carpenter for having to use a hand saw instead of having... He didn't have a tool in the kit. That's great. Right. It's my fantasy that I cast him in. It's not fair to him. He's an amazing man. And by the way...

My field of dreams moment, right, isn't real either. Right. True. Because if your dad called you and he's like, hey, I'm coming to visit. I need to see you. And you got all tanned. We will not meet at my house. We will meet. Okay. And he sat across the table from you in a diner and he said, listen to you. I screwed up. I should have been there to protect you. I wasn't there. And I'm sorry. I failed you as your dad when you were young. And then I've been chasing your approval ever since. And I know I put too much on you. I'm so sorry. Will you forgive me?

And you said yes. And y'all hugged. There's no music that will swell. There's no flashback or montage scene that kicks in. You'll get in your car and you might sob and you might feel some peace and relief. And then you're going to go home and your husband's going to be walking out of the bathroom with his iPad and the smell is going to be so bad and it's going to knock your head. Your life will go back to your life. Yeah. Right? And so grieve like mad. Write him a letter that you'll never send him.

Don't ever send it, but write it, get it out of your body. Free yourself. Okay. And then I have written a letter, but I did send it, which was probably, well, here's the thing. It didn't, it didn't feel like you thought it was going to did it. You thought I'm going to bomb them. I'm going to tell them what's up and you feel like crap. And that's one of the modern revenge lies. Doesn't feel good.

No, no. And it's, uh, and holding on to my copies and my, all my notes on the whole, everything over all the years, it's, it wasn't the acts of the things. It was the emotional instability where, um, but you're, but you said that you literally said it, you're holding on to it. What's that giving you?

Nothing. No, no, no. You made it very clear. I think the movie scenario is the best thing I think I've heard. And even in all my years of therapy, that is my expectation is my expectation. I can't expect someone else to live up to that. Especially when they don't even know what my expectations are. And so, and can we, can I be honest? I bet he's gotten better and your expectation moves because he's

Your expectation is trying to inspire a feeling. Outweigh his. Well, no, you think it's going to feel a certain way and it never does. And so you just move it. Okay. You don't need to just apologize. You need to go on your hands and knees. Okay. You don't need to go on your hands and knees. You need to re-roof my house. No, you need to send me money because you should have, like, it just keeps moving because you'll never get that feeling. It's like the conversations I've had with people who are trapped in heroin. They tell me the first time,

They knew, oh, I'm going to do this the rest of my life. And you're chasing ghosts. You never feel the highs, never that good. That's the same with feelings. You're just chasing it, chasing it, chasing it. Quit. Quit. How do you move forward or how do you show forgiveness? I know forgiveness is internal, but without feeling like they won. Like, I feel like if I let my guard down, then he won. And that means you're still playing a game.

Quit playing the game. Listen, you won. You have an amazing marriage. You've got four amazing kids. You just moved to a new town. You already have one friend. That's more than I've got. Kelly calls herself my friend, but let's be honest. No, she's like, she's shaking her head. No, she's not. Bob's my friend. Hold on, amigo. Right? Like you won. And so like, how do I feel like they, if I do this, if I forgive them, if I send a mother's day card, they win. No, they didn't. Cause you're not even playing.

I'm out of the game. And I want everybody to hear me. Somebody abused you. Somebody hurt you. Somebody continues to haunt you. They've got some, they continue to try to use you. No, that relationship's over and it's okay to grieve. It's okay to wish that you had grandparents for your grandkids. They're not there. Didn't happen. I'm going to grieve it. And then I'm going to stop carrying it around because choosing to carry it anymore is choosing to be miserable in the limited time I got left.

I wonder what it would be like, Sarah, if you just burned all those notes and letters you saved for all those years. I'm not recommending you do that, but I wonder what it would be like. Because I bet a part of your identity over the years has become this really tough person who cuts people off and I hold on to it. How's that working? That's the great Dr. Phil asked. How's that working for you? What if we let go? What if we opened our hands? What if we unlocked our own hell from the inside and just said, I'll see y'all later. I'm gonna go be with my amazing family. I'm free.

Happy Father's Day, Dad. I wish you the absolute best. Happy Mother's Day, Mom. I hope today is a good day for you. And you can genuinely wish that for them. It doesn't mean I don't have a relationship with you. It doesn't mean I don't sit down and have a meal with you. But I do hope that your day is good. That, my friend, that's freedom. We'll be right back.

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Hey, how's it going, John? I'm good, brother. Life going okay for you? Good. Yeah, it's pretty good. I can't complain too much. Excellent. Hey, I said Princeton, Minnesota. Yeah.

Is that right? That's correct. Yeah, it is correct, yes. Look at that. I'm learning my geography. I thought, Taylor, I thought you put the wrong initials up there, and I thought I was going to lose my mind. Okay, Joe, we're on the same page, brother. What's up? I was calling because back in 2018, my father took his own life, and my kids were real young. Wow.

Now that they're getting older, I try to keep him involved, you know, keep him in their lives so they know who he is. And my daughter now is asking how he died. Excuse me. I don't know. I don't know how to tell her. Yeah. What was his name? Andy. Andy. Tell me about him. Sorry. No, you're okay. Take your time, brother.

Oh, he was great. Yeah? Yeah. He was a good dad. Taught me everything I know. I thought this would be easier. No, it's tough, man. Especially when you lose someone that we love. Yeah. But...

It came very unexpected. I was not ready for it. I mean, not that anybody ever is, I guess, but...

Out of the blue? Yeah, absolutely. He was at my house the day before, and I didn't even know it was coming. How many days have you replayed that last day y'all were together? Hundreds. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, before we go any further. I think about him every day. I know. Before we go any further, I need you to hear me say, you didn't miss anything. Yeah. You didn't miss anything. Yeah.

One of the strangest things about people who die by suicide is their friend community, their family community often reports that the last week or two weeks before they passed, they seemed to have turned a corner and they were so happy and so joyful and they came by and visited and they gave us cool stuff and they were just so over, like it was, they were light. Yeah. Right? Yep. That's good to hear. I'm so sorry, man.

So how old is your kid, your kids? They're currently nine and seven. Nine and seven, okay.

Yep. And they ask often, you know, I mean, I keep pictures around and I talk about them and they just, I don't know how to explain to them what happened. Okay. And I don't want them, I don't want them to think suicide is okay. Of course. But I don't want to stigmatize it either, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Something that happened, so. So, um...

I guess my first question is, are they going to hear about this from a family member somewhere else down the road? A cousin or an aunt or uncle? Are they going to hear the S word, the suicide word? Are they going to hear that from somebody or are they pretty self-contained? I wouldn't think that it would come up. I mean, it's, I don't want to say that people don't talk about it, but it's not ever talked about in that sense, I guess. Does she have, do your kids have cousins that they hang out with all the time?

Uh, not all the time, but they see him. Yeah. I mean, it's, it happens. Okay. Um, generally speaking, I want my kid to hear about something from me first. If I think there's a chance you're going to run into it developmentally speaking. So let's pretend that's off the table. Let's pretend no one's going to say that about granddad. Your kids aren't going to show up somewhere and hear the granddad, uh,

died by suicide or committed suicide or whatever, took his own life. They're not going to hear that and come to you as a 10 year old and say, daddy, what's suicide. Right. So let's pretend that's, that's off the table from zero to 12, zero to 11, depending on the maturity of your kid. Every kid's different. I would say he got very, very sick and he died. That's it. Okay. He's very sick. And then from 12 to about 16 ish, 15 ish, 16 ish.

Daddy was very, granddad was very, very sick in his mind, in his head. What do you mean? He had a lot of, he had an illness, but it was in his brain. And then 15, 16, as they ask further, and we can sit down and explain, his mind was really sick and he thought that the way to heal his mind was to not be around anymore. Or he was so sick that he thought he was a burden to those of us and he thought the gift he could give us was to not be here.

and i miss him every single day yeah and then at some point your kid's gonna say well how did he do it and you can say that's my dad and i'm not ready to talk about that yet but i will someday yeah okay okay and then there'll be a weird moment when your kids 18 19 20 21 y'all are driving down the road

and something tragic comes on the news or whatever, and it will happen somewhat organically unless you're a closed-off dad and you don't sound like that kind of guy. But if you keep open rapport with your kids, there will be a day when it's organic and it feels right, and you'll say, that's how your granddad died, whether it was a gun or whether it was medicine or whether it was junk, like whatever the thing is, that's how your granddad died. Right? But those type of things don't always have to be a big announcement.

But as for the young kids, yeah, they can't wrap their head around it. Right. I hate this for you. No, thank you. And I always ask this question, and I don't ask it to be too intrusive, but how are you? Do you have those thoughts too? Would the world be better if you weren't here? Absolutely not, no. After the pain I felt, absolutely not. I couldn't do that to anybody. Awesome. Good for you. Have you forgiven your dad yet? Honestly, no. Okay.

It's okay to be really, really angry. - Yeah. - For robbing their-- - Some days are better than others. - I know. Have you heard me? I tell everybody to do this thing, so I'll tell you as well. There's a real beneficial exercise of the three letters. - Yeah. - To write your dad a letter and tell him how much you miss him, how amazing he was. As you talked about him to me, seal it up. As you talked to me, like, man, he taught me everything I know. Be specific. You taught me how to whittle, you taught me how to fix this thing, you taught me how to tie my shoes.

And then write him a second letter. Put an envelope. Seal it up. Write him another letter that tells him how freaking pissed you are. Yeah. And then write him a third letter and tell him, Dad, I'm letting you go. Here's what you're going to miss. And, man, are we going to miss you. Okay. And I'm letting you go. I want you to go rest because you weren't able to rest here. I'm going to go let you go. And I'm going to use what you taught me. I'm going to go be the best damn dad that ever existed.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I want that. Let his spirits rest. Okay. And then what you're going to bring to your house is peace. And you don't have that. Your kids don't have that. Your house doesn't have it. And you're working so hard for it because you're an incredible dad. Let's let your dad go. All right. Okay. Yeah. It's hard. It is. You didn't miss anything. It's not your fault. You know those things. Yeah.

Yep. Okay. It's been one of the honors of, of, of my time here to talk to you today. Thank you for being open. Oh, thank you very much. I appreciate it. You got it, man. You're a blessing brother. Um, for everybody listening, you'll hear me say all the time, don't lie to your kids. Don't lie to your kids. And I'll tell you again, don't lie to your kids and don't overshare with your kids. And there's a difference. Um, a nine year old, a 10 year old, they can't wrap their head around suicide. What they do know is, um,

They're just like dad. Half a dad is them. That means part of granddad is them. And it's just an algorithm that a young kid can't map out. So granddad was sick, really, really sick. Dad was sick. Mom was sick. Your friend was really, really sick. And as they get older, we'll begin to clarify what sickness means as they're able to internalize it. Some kids can't handle it until they're 18. Some kids can handle it in 15. Every kid's different. You'll know your kids. Joe, you're a good dad. Andy would be really proud of you. We'll be right back.

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That's Organifi, O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I dot com slash Deloney and use code Deloney for 20% off. All right, we're back. It's time for Am I the Problem? Go for it, Kelly. All right. So this woman put Jane Doe, so I'm assuming she doesn't want to be known. Let's call her Kelly Daniel. Kelly Daniel writes, I automatically know now that you think she's the problem. I'm the problem sometimes.

All right. See, my husband and I run a nonprofit business that has grown to successfully serve a large number of people in communities over the past 10 years. It's been a labor of love and a huge sacrifice for both of us. It has also been wonderful to see our mission be fulfilled.

The issue I'm having is my husband receives recognition a lot of time for our work in this space. He receives awards from very well-recognized and for being very well-recognized in regarded associations and organizations. And from the public view, it's that he runs this organization and he who has sacrificed everything to preserve the particular community we serve. And I just sort of, quote unquote, work there too. In the beginning... I mean, this is getting real close to home.

Jane Doe. In the beginning, when he was receiving the recognition, I was so happy and proud, and I saw the recognition as a way to push our mission forward, which has definitely helped. But now I'm starting to feel resentful and a bit like the side chick in this operation. Am I the problem? Ooh, that one's tough.

All right, I'm gonna talk this one out loud and I might change my mind from what I originally say out loud. No, I think her feelings are real and valid. It's true. And if he is not recognizing her at every turn too, and there are husbands that placate, I think my wife, Jane, and it goes on to the next. And then if you can, you can Google Steve Carell's first Emmy when he said, I didn't prepare anything, but my wife wrote this.

And it's hilarious. And it's supposedly his wife writing his acceptance speech, but it keeps mentioning her over and over.

And at the end you realize he understands he is nothing without her and it's really a beautiful funny very steve carell, but it's a sentence, but it's like He the whole recognition speech was about her right and it was really beautiful and well done And so if he's not doing that then shame on him, right? This is a joint thing Yes, one person gets direct like same to the show my face is on it when it goes bad I gotta go on. I gotta say i'm, sorry, but

But when it goes good, everyone's like, man, your show. Well, dude, there's a whole crew back there, right? So I get that. But if my life isn't dedicated to pointing out, dude, without you guys, I'm just some knucklehead on the street running my mouth. I'm a lunatic. Then shame on me. The other side of it is there's a lot of ego involved here, right? Like who cares? Like life's too short. And so I get both. I get them both. I don't know that anybody's a problem here. I think the problem probably is

She hasn't sat down and said, hey, I'm feeling left out of this thing. And I know that I'm not supposed to. I'm a nonprofit. I'm supposed to just sing kumbaya and say, yay, all the children are getting served. But, man, you have a lot of plaques with your name on them. And this is an us thing. And I'm – really, it's a relational issue. I'm not feeling like you appreciate me. I think that's a fair thing to say out loud. Yeah. What do you think? I agree 100% with everything you said there. Nobody's a problem. Yeah. And he probably doesn't even think about it. Yeah. He –

Or he probably is thinking she hates public speaking. She hates getting on stages. I'll do this for us. We're all just glad that the organization is getting recognition. But just have a conversation. Yeah. That conversation can be tough. But have it anyway. Not having it is also tough. Kelly, Joe, Andrew, Taylor, even me hermano Bob. I'm nothing without you guys. So glad you're in my gang. Appreciate you. Bye.

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