Talking Dateline: 65 Seconds
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all states and situations everybody i'm judge makahs and i'm here with and bc news correspondent blame .

Alexander hello, hello, hello. So glad to be .

here and we're talking day one now the episode they were going to be talking about is called sixty five seconds and it's blames episode and if you didn't see you on TV or view and listen to the podcast, it's in the podcast list right below this one. So go listen to IT or watch IT and then come back here first of all, uh, walk to date line. This was your first episode and I hope there are many, many more.

Thank you so much. IT is IT is very good to be here in the date line world to be sitting here and talking to you about this. I was quite an experience. I really enjoyed the process, so I am glad to be part of IT. Thank you.

Now a little bit of background for people who only watched date line blames a correspondent in the nbc news at land baro parenthetically. Ask to be a correspondent in the A B. C news, the land baro. But that was before blame was born. And IT was an interesting time. When I was there, we're over exact about fire which had recently been invented anyway but blame is is the course of a right now in the in the nbc atlanta and is just finished covering the story of of the trump detection and somehow found time to shoe horn in a this episode sixty five seconds. So tell me how working for date line is different than your other job?

Well, jush one. Thank you for the best introduction ever. And I have to say, literally, the first date line voice person expert that I had on the phone was you.

So I had a great mentor from the very beginning, and I think that really just kind of set the tone for the entire process. One, to answer your question, how was IT different from being a Normal news correspondent? The whole different world. I think that, you know, when i'm finding something for N B C nightlight news or today show or M S N B C, i'm rushing all the time and moving all the time. I have quick interviews that sometimes last twelve minutes, if it's twelve minutes as a long interview. So to come into date line and be able to really dive into something, really read up about a person, read up about a subject or situation, in this case, of course, highly focus and really spend hours talking to somebody wasn't experience that i'd never had. And I think one of the things that surprised me most is how much I was able to learn about an individual that I never got the privilege of meeting.

That is the thing that to me, you know, because I did, I did sort of daily news for a long time before I came to date line to be able to spend like a couple of months on a story, you know, and hours in interview with people. It's not easy. It's a lot of work because you have to be as you say, it's to be completely prepared. But IT is for reporters a real luxury because most people are are, are not about quickly.

Now who's like the privilege of time?

yeah. And the process of time is something the a lot of journalists don't get both you print TV probably digital too, because everybody y's publishing all the time. And that's the great thing about this. Uh, and the other thing about that, that rewarding about deadline is that you know um where to some extent sort of captive of the trial schedule. So even if we want to go in september, but they just moved the trial and is not going to be until november, that's the more time built in for us to learn more about the story because we're generally not going to go until it's over because the audience wants to know what.

And I think that was what was so interesting to me. I'm so used to covering things in real time. So there are a lot of hanging chairs, if you will. You don't know how sometimes is going to end up, you don't know what's going to to happen at the end, but be able to, again, really kind of jump in to this end, immerse myself in not only you know the person that we're talking about, but her friends, her family, that even just the community around at the time, like learning really everything that I could IT about what her life was like a during that time ah was a privilege. Like I said, it's a privilege that we don't typically get as journalist and I think IT makes for certainly A A richer and and more impactful story that .

the collection of friends that you interviewed tell me about that because you didn't assemble that group. Those people were already together on this with a common belief .

yeah so you're talking about the friends of nick focus um hyde's husband, this friend of nick kind of a symbol these other people kind of brother in together and they were all united in the belief that nick is innocent, that nick is still innocent today. They all kind of came together and said that they wanted to talk about this.

What's interesting, though, is that IT took several hours of background conversations to really kind of say, OK, do we trust you? Do we want to tell our story in this way? So I took a lot of work just to get them to sit down. But I think IT was very a unusual that we had this group of friends who came together because they were all uh, wanting to proclaim what they believe was next innocence.

Yeah, I thought that was great. And in one by one, you sort of got through all that because I was looking at the big group show and talking like, that person doesn't talk yet, and I like that person isn't talk IT. But eventually they all did.

Just, we talked for, I can't remember the time, but that was well over two hours that we SAT down and we talked. So everyone certainly had a chance to have their states. You know, we can only use a fraction, really, of these. These link the interviews that we do, but I do think that we got a sense of where everybody was coming from. Everybody got at least a sample, or kind of the greatest hits of what they were trying to get across in the story.

This is something that denis always says, but i'm going to repeat IT here, which is the real stars, the day line, are the people you do not see on television. There are the producers association producers um you .

know the bookers, the day of air people. What can you ask me? How is this different, josh, from doing? But the level of detail and just the level of support and how many people really jump into making these one hour to our episodes great is stunning. IT really, really is stunning.

I've never been part of a team like this in all the years that i've been in TV news. And I worked in a lot of places talk to me a little bit about that marriage because also quoting quoting Dennis, uh, it's not the murder. It's the marriage.

That's the thing. We're looking at a date line because look, we could you we could find bloody your crimes. We could find, you know, we could do only serial killers, but we know we're doing stories like this one, which are which are as much about the sort of family dynamic as they are, the actual crime. So you have this marriage in which apparently one person is up to something, at least in terms of the family finances, and the other I D like, has no idea. Is that what you say?

I mean, that's certainly how I came across. And this I think that we have to remember the ages that we're talking about you because you and I can sit here and say there is no way that you wouldn't know Better houses being for close on. There is no way that you wouldn't know for instinct that you know what what's going on with your checks bouncing or ask different questions.

But highty was twenty when SHE married nick, right? So when you kind of transport yourself back to when you were twenty years old, I think that and talking with her brother, talking with her sister and not talking with her best friend and people who knew her, SHE was incredibly trusting to the point of yet. SHE really believe that nick kind of had things under control.

But also you don't know what you don't know and so when I talked with Crystal, one thing that stood out to me about that conversation, well, he said, yeah today with with you know the benefit of a decade plus under my bell, I would have asked different questions you know, when he said that he was out with hide and her, you know, card would not work or things like that. And how I just said OK, we had identity theft. She's like again.

Now with the benefit of wish, I certainly have asked different questions. But back then, we were Young. We didn't really know how things worked. Now if you talk with, of course, next defense or is next experience, I say, okay, there's still no way that you wouldn't know that you wouldn't have seen letters, you wouldn't have seen things like that. So that's you know their counter point to that but when you think about the age um just the not knowing does make more sense when you put into that context .

you talking about the next defence. One of the one of the familiar faces that I saw on this story was a je freedman, the defensive tourney, who was who represented um a guy in a story that I did about a murder on halloween in which everybody, all the suspects were wearing halloween costumes so they like .

the suspect classic sorry.

yes like the suspects were like the lion, the riddler, the gambler, the cowboy he was a defensive tourney in that case and one and equitable, uh in that case um so I definitely recognize him right away. I've talked about a couple of things in the story um yeah principle having the voice of the victim in a story is something that we don't get very often but it's incredibly powerful and IT was in this .

one being knew a date line. I knew that right off the bat that being able to hear from the victim is rare, and in so many ways, telling the story. IT was, I, I don't know, here is the right word, but IT was certainly almost very interesting, very poetic and notable that when you hear that night, when one call those are her last words on the service like that, those are her kind of final words, and certainly is the prosecution went, went about building their case that was in in many ways, what kind of LED to a nick being convicted. And so was kind of like that was kind of like the clue that SHE left to to point to the conviction.

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In these stories, any date line viewer knows and says to me all the time on social and person, it's always the husband is usually the husband or or a boyfriend, right? So you know, when you're doing one of these stories, you start or I do anyway with the idea that, okay, well, they're going to suspect the spouse right away.

The audiences is they already believe that whoever is, it's probably someone close to them or the spouse because they watch a lot of date line. And of course, that's also true in in law, on sized somebody the victim knows. So I dought you very good, very job in this of sort of leading us around enough corners that I think was originally, I thought, I self man.

I hope this isn't nick. I really hope this isn't nick, right? And and I thought that were great. And I thought the sketch works great, particularly in that you will see the sketch for a while. You just see them making IT, which I thought was great.

That was so key. So as a long time date line viewer, right, this is my first day line. Sorry, but I wash IT for a heck of a long time and yes, i'm the same way an audience you know members of you it's kind like, okay is that the husband as a person is closer to this person?

Um that sketch, that Michael pie episode I guess you could kind of call IT was so fascinating to me when you talk about just kind of the details of the story that this was um really IT was just kind of one of the stand out turns because there were so many pieces of IT that just made IT almost unbelievable. I mean, you look at the guy, you look at the sketching, you like all that. That's the man even sitting with him all these years later. When I handed IT to him, he said, no, it's that's absolutely me like that absolutely looks like me that's .

that's great because you completely expect him to say that isn't me and you're going to think you're the that's you and he just he said.

that's me as hands down me but the fact that he was in jail or in prison rather during that time, honestly saved time. I know I think we could have gone so much deeply with that, because have he not been incarcerated at the time? If you absolutely been convicted, period, I mean, that man will be still sitting .

in prison today. If he then locked up, that was gonna. Next, get out of jail free car because that is he mean he is the perfect alternate suspect. If if what you're doing is looking to to deflect suspicion, I mean, you'd never been able to get police and prosecutors to look away from him. He was perfect, except he couldn't done that.

And I think in all these interviews, who was so interesting me, josh, is that like we we press on when we talk with next friends, when I talk with his defense, I said, if mico Michael pass face was plaster all over the news at the time, did he kind of hash this plan to say, okay, is the guy? Here's the sketch and they kept coming back and saying, no, this was him saying, this is the best we can do.

This wasn't him you saying scientists ll deliver. This was the guy when he presented the sketch according his attorneys. IT was more so.

And this is what I can remember. This is kind of the best shot we've got. And so that also kind of added just another layer to this. When you talk about the fact that sketch was identical to microbial.

that was great. And the other great booking you had in this was was Rachel, because you sort of see that coming and then there he is. And like, oh, we're going to learn a lot more about this. Mean, that's a great like twist .

right in the middle IT. So you know, one thing that i've learned in this is that so much of who sits down with us in date comes down to trust because you've got a number of date line episodes at one time like we do a number of these. But for the people who are above, this is arguably, without question, the biggest incident of their lives.

And so to sit down and kind of almost spill and spend three hours talking about this IT takes A A trust. So these were hours of conversations that went into getting those people who ultimately say, OK, which are you? We're going to sit down with the same with y's family members, her brother and and her sister in law.

And so yes, when we ultimately got Rachel to agree to a down, what doesn't share her story? That was monumental because if SHE shared something with hye, that no one else on this plan, sure being that he was also marry to nic focus, and he could talk about him as a husband, he could talk about their life together, he could talk about these things that that SHE found. And so I really think that was crucial. And just understanding the complexities of the story in this relationship.

you've touched something interesting here, which is true and most to every day last story, which is a lot of times we spend a lot of time trying to get people to speak with. Sometimes we're successful, sometimes we're not. Um yes, this is a you know this is a life defining event for so many people um and for lot of them, like there's their life before this happen and then there's their life since this happen.

And getting people to talk about this is not always easy. Some people just don't want to do IT, and there they're afraid of how they are going to be portrayed. Or in a lot cases, what they're afraid of is how they're loved one and the person who got how that person's going to be portrayed. And so there is a lot of discussion that goes on between us and the person we interview, long, long for the person who was sit down in the chair and those discussions as they did with you and and the uh and the and region. In this case, I can frequently take a really long time.

or that their motors may be questioned, right? You talked about the other things, the other doubt that they have, like, everybody sees these episodes. I mean, these these episodes live on and people see them years from now.

I say, hey, why did you decide to talk? What were you hoping to get out of IT, right? Like if there is that sort of fear as well. So I think that's why, in many ways, all of these these three conversations and the hours of work that takes to get people to talk to us really helps us further get to know them and and Better be able to tell their story.

Yeah and IT helps you in the interview because you are much more comfortable with them when you're sitting across. If you've ready spent some time talking to you know, one of the things that I I see and a lot of stories, particularly when i'm interviewing parents of of somebody who accused, but in this case, I think true of that group of friends is that you're talking to people who essentially, whether they realize that or not, they have two agenda as one is i'm convinced that this person i'm talking me about is not guilty um but the other agenda is i'm also convinced that I couldn't have been wrong about this person all those years I mean, parents don't want to admit they raised a monster. Friends don't want to to admit that their friends with somebody who could have committed murder and they never perceived that. And that's something you run into all the time in this jump.

And absolutely, to your point, when I talked with next friends, I asked them toward the end of the interview, I said, would you ever allow yourself to imagine a world in which you believe he's guilty and his best friend since me? IT would have been easier. I wish I could get there.

That would be easier for me to believe that than to believe that this person, who I believe is my best friend, is locked up wrong. They wrongly keeps straight. And so IT was really interesting to just kind of gin to that mindset of, I wish I could get there like that would be easier. Just an internal struggle of trying to come to terms with us.

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Now let's I don't, with the title, the one part of the story that corresponds blame and I and Keith, and then is an Andrew don't play a real role in, is the title of the episode that's written by others, people in new york. And sometimes I suggest something and every now and then they say, okay but usually like it's some of of their own and their they they they all listen to me but negotiations .

listen to me a .

lot more yeah I don't get thank you um but yet sixty five seconds I had one a few years ago called eleven minutes. So I think that you currently are in the lead for the title that represents the shortest period of time the .

short of the time, just over a minute. I will i'll take that title. I appreciate that. That's a good banner to have. It's so funny to your point about how these titles are are almost a mystery of giving away too much of the keys to the to the sauce. But you actually broke the news of that title to me before .

we started this. Add a working title that is that is not the one that appears on the air but I think it's very cool because um and .

i'm sure you feel this way too sometimes that feels like your too close to a story like you know the ins and out you know the details, you know so much the granular and so it's good for somebody to you're working in new york is kind of take a look at IT, review the scripts and uh, here's what's sit out to me. Here's the title to have someone who's not as intimately involved come up with A A title for IT.

This story .

took you a while to do, and all these stories take a while to do. The drivers between you and me is that I was not covering an another gigantic national breaking story in the middle of this, and you were because you were all over that trump entitled, and you were nbc like lead person on that, and I was watching your coverage of that, which, by the way, I was great and thinking like that would be really hard, was to do that story. And then also like keeping the details of this murder your head, but you like to do that kind of daily coverage you do.

I appreciate that. Thank you. IT was unlike anything that i've ever done. IT was very much, almost kind of dividing myself and half because I wanted to maintain focus on the episode and keep you know reading and researching and learning more while all of these court violence were come again and we we're dealing with um the former president. Well, I think that it's interesting though because IT speaks to how different date line is and the date line world is. While I was dealing with intense deadlines and just running and rushing all over the place.

yeah start changing in so many ways like incremental. And you have to be up on all those changes because they're being reported everywhere.

A fun behind the scenes if you want to talk behind the scenes. I was in many apple is for a shoot another. I went there maybe three or four times A, I was there for one of our interviews.

I just left one. We were getting ready to head to another. And something broke, a fire broke. And so they wanted me to confirm IT. So I literally had to pull over on the side of the road.

I'm working two phones texting my people here in the land, a texting a couple sources to confirm this information. This is right for nightclub ws time. And so a lorge IT shot out to her a senior legal correspond IT called me along with the senior, like, what can we report?

So I draining to her as she's writing her script, as i'm looking at my GPS. And like, I am going to be up on five minutes late, lips, ten minutes later. You know, all of this is happening in real time. So then I put that out of my mind, finish that, and then go to this to go to this interview. So IT literally is having too different brains working multi eely.

That's what real reporters do so off to.

But thank you. And my you can I say, you know, in terms of getting prepared for these interviews, that's one of the things that you told me, josh, before I started this of just how a you know how difficult these interviews can be sometimes when you talk about sitting down and really just getting into deep conversations with somebody for two and a half three hours, that I can take a lot out of you, especially when they get to be emotional. So are you giving me a tip of preparing and just kind of getting myself you know together, getting wasted up really, really hopes uh and made some of those pass ble good.

Well, thank you. Um I hope I did help.

Well, thank you. Thank you. I loved that. I absolutely loved that.

I love the process. I love the people. I love the team. Not honestly, I want to say this.

I loved almost feeling like I got to know so many people that I interviews during this process as well. That was really kind of a striking thing. And so I I enjoy this entire thing that I really did.

That's one of the great things about daylight is the people that you meet when you're doing the stories. And i'm still touch with a lot of people from previous stories. Um this episode is called sixty five seconds um the one that that I referenced earlier is the night before halloween. If you want to list that one which features the same defense attorney and a and and also a crazed story, blame my example. Thank you so much for joining us here.

IT was an absolute pleasure. Judge.

thank you for having me. We have been talking date line and the and we'll be more .

of these more to come.

Hey, i'm yh hei, and i'm the host of the optimistic project. This is the podcast that asks what gives you hope. Each week I sit down with change makers you may or may not know from comedy, music, academia and more to uncover what inspires them to create a Better tomorrow.

Join us as we find out ways that we can cultivate optimism in our own lives. You can find the oppose project wherever you get your podcast. Don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode.