Talking Dateline: Ghosts Can’t Talk
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On everybody, i'm judge mates and we are talking date line and our guest is canning.

Hi, hello, josh. And over listeners.

So a this episode is called ghosts can't talk, which is a title that I love. Now if you have not seen this on television, or if you have not heard IT on a podcast, IT is the episode right below this on the list of podcasts that you just chose from. So go there, listen, do IT or watch IT on television, and then come back here.

Okay, I am not usually this angry after watching an episode of data and when I am is usually about something that the person did and not how the system treated that person but in this case um I mean, it's outrageous. How is jackie not wearing texas prison? Why is nuts in .

the person who thinks it's the most nuts is corson's. That's the whole reason that he did the inner vy with us because he was so upset with the treatment, the jackie god, what he considers to be special treatment.

I mean, he clearly knew a murder was coming and didn't what I mean.

And what's with you? Go to jail two days a year for ten years on the anniversary of technics death. It's strange.

You think korea thinks about IT two days a year.

I know this is one of those cases that went on for years and and IT was kind of like, will they? Won't they? Will they? Won't they with jacky IT was just kind of like, IT seem like IT was all over the map. And then suddenly we get this heads up that you know that he will face something.

Nick took a plea so they didn't need her testimony against him, which is sometimes how people are escaped sand. They had him without that.

Yeah usually it's who's first right? Who's gna turn first gets the deal. yeah. One of the things that the travails, county da said, was the jacklin Edison fully CoOperated with law enforcement during the investigation, but that the investigation also revealed information that reduced her culpable, which they did not share with us because they did not do an interview, so we don't know what that means.

The da s office also went on to say.

our office takes act of violence seriously and is committed to holding people who commit violent crimes accountable. Should miss Edison violate the conditions of her probation, then he can be sense to twenty years in prison.

So one more chance, that's IT. If you want to kill anybody else, well, then missing you are really in trouble. That's what they're saying.

I know. And for them to say they you found this new information, like what was this new information and reduced her culpable you know, why do you say what I was?

Yeah, I mean, sure sounds like fend that decision.

They say that it's their policy to not do interviews, but we've come to learn that's not the case. And by the way, there's you always have a choice as the prosecutor. If if you want to do an nerval, there's no, there's no state Mandate, county Mandate telling him he can't .

you start to episode out with the shoot out, which is just no as of that, the very strong way to get into the story. Uh, the dog gets shot and killed .

and that .

was a that was because the dog, you can say this, but the dog was death. Is that right?

One of them, one of the dogs was death. yeah.

And so probably couldn't near the gunshot, but probable probably could smell.

The people come in in. One of the dogs definitely knew what was happen because that's the whole reason ted got out of bed and went to go see what was going on. And that's when the the shooting started. And that's when cory graph or gone.

I will say at the end of part one. And then even, even after that, I T H coring. I prosecuted for this the way he was talking about IT to her tone, voice, her affect made me think, oh, she's gona claim there was a shooting. She's going to say I accidentally jump my husband and I was .

shooting the burglars yes you know with the police so often look to the spouse you know as being responsible um and in this case, IT IT definitely caught their attention the fact that why did they come into the house and leave ted dead but not corry, especially when corey ran out of ammo and was hiding in the closet. You know, why spare her? And then, of course, you have that thought motive, money.

They have a lot of money. Maybe shouldn't not want ted in her life anymore. He wanted the money for her self. I mean, these are all the things that the police were thinking about when they were investigating.

and they wouldn't be doing their job. They didn't look at her, but he did not refuse to be interviewed.

No, not, not. SHE fully, fully CoOperated. And know you talked about her tone, her affect. We did talk about that a lot as we were editing the story. And the thing that I took away from IT was course intense.

You, she's been through hell and back, and I think SHE sort of almost made a packed with herself. I'm not gonna cry, you know, i'm going to be strong. And SHE finally, at the very end of the interview, SHE got terrible.

And SHE finally broke down A A little bit. You know, everyone handles these different, these interviews differently. And for curry, IT was about, you know, i'm just, I mean, to be strong.

Everything you know can be gone in a matter seconds. I thought that was very pointed.

Ant that was her take away from this SHE said, I want everyone to remember that that everything you have can be gone in a matter of seconds. And her whole world was just shattered in that moment, in that night. And I think to myself, just the betrayal.

You know that one of your children could do this to you. It's so hard for any parent to wrap their head around. And I said to corry, how do you wrap your brain around that? He said, you don't.

I thought SHE really sort of made that clear because, you know, she's paying for next atterley at one point, right? That be more on belling that you view you hire killers to try to kill me and your dad on your own bow.

I think corry didn't want na believe that her son could be capable of something like that, so SHE hung on as long as he could.

It's one reason why when we interview you mothers and fathers of of people who are accused of murder, usually there there on their, on their son daughter's side, you know, nobody wants to admit that they raised a murder.

And you can just imagine inquiries, mind. I feel like it'd be a natural that thought to say, what did I do wrong like, you know, there must be some of that guilt factor in there, even though there should be none. I mean, I just, my heart breaks for her as a mom.

SHE lost her best friend. SHE lost her son. Just that gives me Charles just thinking about IT.

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I thought them, you know, nick, kind of in the early interviews of police, sort of the tea on the people's door and saying, well, you know, I was hired to you, follow this guy next door that was weird, you know yeah and and I thought his sort of redirecting the investigation that way was, uh, for all his point of you, smart. Although cops clearly saw through that, at some point they realized this guys being more helpful than he should be.

Nick is very conniving, you know, he the way that he tried to redirect them also not only to the neighbor cam um but his friends Spencer he told them that Spencer knew about the bedroom window and that he knew how against the house and then he gave them or that gun you know he was clearly planning all this before and you know had had thought this .

through but he had thought through enough to realize that you know he had approached Spencer about actually doing the job and like like why you want to put the cops in the room with the person that you approached about doing the job original I mean that's that's a very, very foolish thing. The deal .

that's why he's in prison now and he also didn't count on the random man showing up with that renewal by .

Anderson t 恤 t to talk about that a bit。 I mean one of the things that I I loved in this is how the cops got from that t shirt to a murder us. But agree is that's just like lightning striking in the middle, this murder case, and and making a huge difference. I mean, no one saw that coming.

no. I mean, what are the odds that he's wearing that t shirt that is you renewal by Anderson, the window company? And then they go to that local office and they remember him. And I can only work, therefore, like one day or something or three days. IT was a very short stint, but enough to get a name and they.

I mean, when the cops say that they've got ta think themselves, wait a minute, maybe we were wrong about the guy. me. I mean, what are the odds? What are the odds that this window company is going to figure in a merge not once, but twice and completely unconnected in both cases?

And here's another crazy thing. When I used to work in the toronto area, I worked with the woman who now does the renewal by Anderson commercials.

wow.

yeah. So how about that?

So well, in all .

kinds of renewed Anderson connections.

smaller world. And I said, yes, that's an example of how technology has changed crime fighting because that that couldn't have happened just, you know, a quarter century ago, like the camera is weren't good enough to figure out what somebody was.

Also mix the one who told them that he had the surveilLance these surveilLance cameras um so he kind of let them right to their their bread .

crime their um I used to refer to my father when he was alive. Um I called him dad, right what you call your father dad, okay. So i'm going to be a little bit from the date with dateline playbook here about I thought nick referring to his his dad as father was really weird.

I don't know how many people out there do that. I know that it's a thing, but referring to his father, father doesn't want me to do this. Um that feels like something from like the you know seventeen th century very formal yeah they were .

they had a good relationship by all accounts. I mean, this isn't like the men as brothers where you know they have they gave a reason, right? He has no reason.

Nick has no claim that he was being mistreated in somewhere. Just one of the money.

I say a nick and I I hope I didn't sound flip in, but I said there are a chip missing because like, who does this? You know who does this when they have everything, right? Lots of people want money.

Lots of people want their parents money. They don't kill their parents or bother. In this case, attempted murder of mother.

Well, I.

A C.

You know, I mean, is that possible? This is something is best, I guess. But you know the way babies don't come out.

what what?

I think that is Normal to look for an explanation here. What he did and the reasons that he gives do not make any sense. I had lot of issues with with sort you know his responses to your questions, which I I think you were great and he sort like back on his heels a lot of the time .

yeah it's it's an interesting dynamic when someone is actually admitting to a crime because as you know, when we do these prison interviews, they're always deny, deny, deny and throwing information in their face. Well, how do you explain this and this and you know you're colleague no little angry because .

they're just denying everything .

and just cop to everything. I know you're right. You're right. Yes, I did IT. Yes, I was wrong. And then there's always that that, you know, what is this because he got caught. Did he's apologizing or does he really feel bad? And you know, we we actually have an extra clip from the nick interview where I ask him about, you know, what he put his parents through that night.

Let's play that.

Do you think about the fear that your parents experienced? Your dad, your mom, waking up in the middle the night to the dogs barking, your mom hearing the sound of gunfire, your mom being shot out and having to shoot back to save her life, and then cowering in a closet, believing that whoever was in the house was going to come to finish her off. You put her through .

that is just reliving them going through. That is something that's always there. Like knowing what SHE went through and is going through is something that will always be previ will is not something I can just. The gate or minimize its her pain her suffering is something that i'm truly that what hurts me the most .

SHE doesn't SHE believes that whatever you're going to say is lies or whatever you've .

said advice and that he has no reason to think otherwise. 对。 I hope to prove her wrong through my actions. And who are becoming that .

was torture for corry that he had to be put through that. I mean, imagine the post traumatic stress of an experience like that, and how the fear that you would live with you, that something that will never leave her SHE .

still live in their house.

No, now he moved to a new state.

Yeah, because I I don't think I can keep living in the place where that happened because everything is in that house, right? Not just, you know, where I nearly got killed, my husband did get killed, but and my kid who tried to kill me live yeah.

I I, I won't divulge too much about what horses doing now because, you know, SHE shouldn't want to to go too far into that. But SHE does have some good things in her life. She's turned, I believe, someone of a corner. You know where she's SHE is she's doing all right as bash .

you can good, that's good to hear.

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This feels like a good time to talk about something that I get ask about a lot by viewers, which is what's IT like to do an interview in a prison. Because different than the way we usually do, interview is usually we, we find some big space which we usually have to rent and we set up all our cameras. You know sometimes we have like here and make up for people depending on you know who's being interviewed or how many are being interviewed. How is a person interview different from regular data interviews?

Usually there's only make what three people allowed in. Sometimes it's three. If the audio person can come in, the producer almost never comes in because of the numbers that are allowed. Occasionally you'll see someone working like an inmate and i'll say, can they clean the glass Price?

And i've never i've never thought of that.

That's a good idea. That helps for sure because there's a lot of handprint, you know people not being able to touch each other, but they're touching their hands together. And then what i'll do is in the women's prison, i'll try to sort of ask if I can bring in some powder, maybe some hairspray or blush and you know try to do something um with the inmate if I can.

And then there is one one woman who I was interviewing. I put her hair in a ponytail. I put the powder on, gave a little blush, and then I looked in the camera.

I thought, still kindly, looks like a prison they wear in texas, the White tops, and then the colors. I popped her color. Next thing I knew, he looked high fashion. SHE did not look like he was in a prison. I mean, IT was like my best makeover .

yet this fall on abc Andreas extreme correctional makeover.

Oh, you know, I would do that.

I know, I know you would. I know. I mean, I think we should say this for the just for our listeners here. You know, one of the reasons that we try to disguise the fact somebody being in custody is, you know, if we're showing an episode of deadline and somebody shows up two and a half minutes into the story and they're clearly wearing a orange prison cover, yes, you know, it's pretty obvious that person has been convicted. So we going to show you that right at the beginning, sometimes they want to let you do anything thing and you're interviewing the guy through glass and he's worn to cover all, and that's IT.

The prison interviews are always interesting. There's also you could hear IT in that bonus clip we put on. It's so loud that clinking you know, the opening and closing of doors that you can't control because we like to have quiet environments and it's claim clam claim constantly and chess and all kinds of stuff that you hear what you're trying to do. Your interview.

I thought you were great with nick. I mean, I was cheering.

No, thank you. I mean, you know, this is one of those stories that from from the moment that happened, I flew out to often met with people and stayed on this story, didn't, didn't let IT go, kept calling nick on the phone. You kept meeting with the defense attorney. It's interesting how if you kind of latch on to something and you don't let you go, then you can end up with a really powerful story.

So this took a long time. This wasn't something, this wasn't something you wrapped up in just a couple of. No, being dogging and hard nose pays off.

It's great when that happened. So congratulations to you and who produced this. Let's so let's give them all shout out.

Well, IT all started with enrichment. And then the baton was, or who we are, the bon was passed to chatman.

to who we, yes.

yet. And elson, or are cities for from new york SHE steer the ship for us. That's, well.

congratulations to all of them and to you thanks. 呃， ghosts can't talk is the episode title uh, and and I thought that was great. I really did.

And that's IT for talking date line. Andrea, nice to see you. Thanks for joining .

us as always .

and to all of you listening out there in pocket and thanks. So your friday is on deadline on abc.

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