6 Signs You’re Addicted to Stress: Psychologist Teaches You How to Remove Drama From Your Life
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Hey, is your friend mell, and welcome to the male robbin's ject. So you know that I believe in synchronized, I believe in signs, I believe that you can open the portal to the universe. And I have the perfect example of how that happens.

IT happened to me just this morning. I'm here in los Angeles at a serious exam studios, and I come out of the bathroom before I was about to step into this room behind the mike and talk to you today. And holy cow, there was all this commotion as I was walking toward the elevators and bomb this on terrazas of people walk in.

And the person that walked in is somebody that I recognized from a bravo reality television show. And I didn't even know his name. I just know that he's on the show called flipping out, which is a show where he's flipping high and houses and constantly flipping out at his staff and flipping out at clients.

My kids love the show and I thought, oh my god. Of course, i'm seeing this person right now because i'm about to go interview one of the words leading experts on the topic of being addicted to drama. I am looking at somebody who is on television consistently being dramatic and flipping out.

And I thought, if this is not a sign from the universe that I am in the right place, at the right time, having the right conversation with the perfect expert, I don't know what could be more perfect. So I came down the elevator, I walked into the studio, and I am so thrilled, because I know that today's conversation is going to change your life. I know that this is exactly what you need to hear, because today you and I are digging into the fascinating science, research and psychology of drama, drama in your life, drama with other people, drama in your relationships.

And more importantly, you are going to get the tools that you need to remove IT. You're going to get the tools that you need to be able to defuse IT with people in your life that are dramatic or annoying or constantly about themselves. I am so excited to introduce you to doctor Scott lions.

Doctor Scott lions is a medical doctor. He has A P. H. D. In clinical psychology, and he has also developed the systematic stress, a holistic process of restoring biological resilience, which has taught in over twenty countries.

He has a masters in clinical psychology, and he is a renowned body based trauma expert. His book, addicted to drama, is filled with science and psychology and tools and strategies that will help you identify where there is unnecessary drama in your life. He's going to explain why we create drama and why we keep ourselves on edge and why we find ourselves picking fights, gossiping and staying in. These relationships for drama is present, I cannot wait to dig in. So without further a do doctor Scott lions, welcome to the male Robin's podcast.

I'm so excited to be here.

I'm thrilled. And so I want to start with, yeah the most obvious question, which is, what do you mean when you say addicted to drama? What does that even mean?

It's the unnecessary turmoil, it's the exaggeration. It's the performative aspect of the deregulated use of energy, action, emotion in the dis functional way of adaptation of A.

T. I was unnecessary.

Yeah, the unnecessary turmoil, the unnecessary exaggeration, intensification.

Love that. Because here's what I just got from that definition. Yeah, I think this is super easy to buy people ah it's the person who's like the bull in the china shop and everything about them and they are very blustery.

Yes, you just included me in the definition when you said unnecessary turmoil. Yeah, and I never considered myself to be a person who is addicted to drama, but I can see and admit yeah that there are many areas and examples in my life where I create unnecessary turmoil for myself. And so for the person listening, can you just go even deeper? Yeah, could you walk us through some of the questions that you might ask somebody? Yeah, to help them realize, wow, I am addicted to draw in my life.

absolutely. So one of the questions you can ask is to use language like extremely, literally, always, very, really, never that sort of extreme language. Do you feel anxious or bored when things are calm? I know I am raising my hand, but do you do?

Yeah so. Do you end up gossiping and spring things up? Gossiping is so interesting because that makes us feel included.

but at a cost, right? And the thing that think you remember about gossiping as if people do IT with you, yeah.

always do about you, exactly. Are you create extreme situations and sensations? So that might be big feelings. That might be big actions like Peter, like jumping out of an airplane .

and party night, are a lot to hook up. Yes.

absolutely. Pull people into your crisis. 嗯。

this is the victim form of drama.

the victim, but it's also what we call drama bonding. So it's a way of feeling connection. So it's like hmo. Oh my god, you're not can believe who I saw the lobby. He gave me this weird look and also you're saying, oh, tell me more and then posting you in and pulling you in to my vortex so you're like an .

inclusive dramatic part um .

if you find yourself generalizing one bad situation and making a universal, so it's like like someone cut me off on the road today and what a terrible .

day is like everybody that i've met is a loser. I'm not dating. What's up with men? I can't handle this anymore.

Yes, okay, I O, I you a lot .

of my friends say them, no.

yes. Yeah, it's like, cool. Yeah the the catch race is always something it's you know I know of other friends from like it's always something in ago, what's always something .

and then you just look at you .

like you you always have something that that is true yeah you feel more alive under pressure. So like waiting to the deadline to get things done. You're preoccupied with fixing things. Uh, you play out a scenario or interaction over and over again in your head, even changing the story line a little bit at each time, and then possibly venting IT to your friends as well.

So if you find yourself retAiling the same story more than twice, I would ask you, what about IT having to process yet? Why do you need to retell IT? Because basically, you're just reading the drama.

It's sort of like the person that talks about the break up and then how the person has moved on. And they've been doing IT for months and months and months, and by talking about IT and being dramatic about IT and steering IT up to keep IT at the surface. But they don't drop into the deeper feelings of loneliness and inferiority and abandonment. fear? yes. And so you IT remain.

That keeps you out of being in contact with those vulnerable feelings.

What are some of the signs that you might feel internally?

okay. And it's important again to recognize how we view someone addicted to drain the outside is different than how people feel on the inside. So from the inside, you might say things I don't feel like I can direct my reality, I don't have control in my international world, has a lot of pain and wounding in IT.

And from the outside, someone might be like IT feels like everything they're doing is being controlled, manipulated and measured. On the inside, it's intense. There's an intensity, there's a sensation that you're always kind of uneasy in about to erupt and that everything is urgent, like everything is an emergency because that's how we're viewing that from the inside and from the outside. IT feels like they're bulldozing, overpowering and like this paneless energy that just can be contained.

So is the reason why yeah this topic, addicted to drama, is so critical is because without understanding where you or other people that you care about are addicted to the cycle of drama in their life, you will never experience peace and happiness.

Yeah, IT doesn't allow you to. Because peace, stillness is is unsafe. What do you mean for those of us who had some propensity or have some addiction to drama, which is quite a few of us, getting to that point of stillness is actually feels terrifying IT feels like death, or we noticed IT in the reflex of our mind.

So if you've never gone to a meditation class, we're been in a bath. We're just walking through a garden. So you're in this peaceful place.

The environment is right to find more ease and stones. And yet there's this moment where you drop down and then something happens like an alarm goes off. We call that a ravin reflex.

And you start thinking about the next network. Yes, you start thinking about that x, you start getting on your phone. You start looking at people, uh, your x whom ever on the phone, you start doing things that interrupt that.

Is that still? why? Why when we're sad, do we go play even sad our music? Why are we rushing down the street when we have nowhere to go?

why?

Well, part of its this addiction to drama, this constant sense of disease and urgency that is within us and that ravin reflects helps us stay out of contact with the vulnerability of what hasn't been processed.

Okay, i'm having a huge light bar moment.

Tell me about .

IT because you know a doctor, Scott, when I think about being addicted to drama. I hear that phrase and I think about external things, right yeah when I heard addicted .

to drama .

yeah and I I I hear that phrase. I think about someone who on the surface is flipping out or annoying as hell ah or nurse cyclic or controlling or whatever. That's not actually what you're talking about. That's one aspect of IT. Here's what i'm getting yeah that an addiction to drama is a way to identify and label childhood rama the effect of growing up in a chaotic household, the effect of having sustained emotional abuse, or sexual or physical abuse, or simply having this experience in your body where you feel edge all the time yeah.

And i've heard a lot of people in my work and in the research that we do talk about the fact that I grew up with experiences where I felt like, when is the other show you gonna drop yeah when is dad going to come home? drug? Yeah when is you? They're going to be another shooting on my block when are you going to run out of money? Went and that your you call IT. What do you call .

a riving raving .

arriving reflects that that another way to think about this sense in your life that you have to always be ready. The next thing, yes, that is, the raving reflects going all the time. That counts.

absolutely. The anticipation, the readiness for the next bad thing, for the next trauma, we trace the drama to avoid our dramas.

Okay, let's unpack that because you're basically saying yes, whether you're the annoying person in your friend group, in your family where it's all about you all the time, you can help IT you're even sick of your own stuff or you're the person who is sitting quietly in the corner yeah with no external evidence that there is drama yes but you are so in your head and so either anxious, written or on edge or just bracing all the time that the drama is actually internal .

yeah that internal reading got IT.

Oh wow. So that's .

the spectrum right there.

I am getting so much of this conversation. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here and thank you for being here with us in this conversation. And thank you for what you're about to do, which is to listen to a word from our sponsors, do not go anywhere because we are going to be right back.

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Welcome back. I am so glad that you're still here with us. We are talking to the awesome doctor Scott lions and more on emission. Let's get rid of the drama in our lives. So doctor Scott, what made you want to call this drama? Because I feels a little bit more um accessible like it's it's like in some way, if I were to call that resting or that on edged sensation in my body and having bent somebody that really struggled with anxiety for forty five years, I really understood that I was in my body, not in my head. Calling IT drama feels way nicer and actually more accessible than calling IT something like, I like, I like that okay, drama in my nervous system yeah like why did you start to study this? Why they were drama?

Yeah I am dramas we claiming so we have the is like derogatory terms like drama queen. And when most people go there's such a drama. A queen or drama addict is usually in a very derogatory context.

That's true. And I wanted to reclaim IT and I wanted to say, okay, so we had this familiar term that all of us are, most of us know someone walks in, they take the air of the room. We know that person. We know that they have some like proclivity towards drama, some addiction to IT.

right? Or or is this also the kind of person that they just can't get out of their own way? Yes, they get sober, then they relax.

They dating the person that hurts them. Yes, why? And it's it's like, yeah, we can look at attachment patterns, but IT all leads back to the same physiological process, which which is that IT helps you distract, IT gives you energy and its a pain reliever.

That is what drama does and drama yeah is anything that what .

that gives you a stress response basically, that raises those quarters of levels that makes you raved up. And part of IT is when I talk about the exaggeration and the intensification of something like most people think of drama addix as performative.

right? exactly. This is what i'm getting at that you're actually talking about a much larger spectrum. Yeah like what does that look like for somebody who is not, quote, the drama queen or doesn't quote, suck the area of the room, but is suffering from an addiction to drama on the inside? Yeah, well.

IT all has the same physiological IT all gives you that read up stress response OK. So that's one of the important things, is that whatever the behavior is, so whether were over scheduling ourselves, whether we're gossiping, whether we're getting into another fight with someone in order to feel closer to them, whatever IT is, that is the behavior IT all has the same. Physiological IT gives us that boost of energy.

IT gives us pain relief. Stress is an anesthesia, just like when you go running. Do you run .

used to before the later surgery and three children?

Or jumping into a cold pool? yeah. I mean, those types of stress responses give us a flood of pain reform. S right. You're right.

But I don't think about IT that way, because when you think about drama in your life, IT caused a lot of pain. Yeah.

drama is not about making sense. It's about making sensation. And that sensation gives you a sense of feeling alive when most of your internal experience is feeling them.

So gives you enough the disciple of volume of sensations high enough to rise, about the threshold ld of nominees to go, I feel something. And that nominee's comes from a trauma response that's protective, that survival response. Then we start to feel like we don't exist, we don't belong.

And and so we start to crave sensation, we start to reach for, we start to manifested, we start to find ourselves in scenarios or even create scenarios in our head that give us some type of experience, give a sensation to go, at least I feel something, even if it's bad, and especially if that something gives me that heightened stress response. I feel energize, because that's the first stage of a stress response as IT release his energy into our body. And the second parties is that releases a flood cascade hormones that gives us some taken relief or disconnection from the underline pain and trauma that we are hiding from, that we have to hide from as a means of survival.

Or that we don't even know is there.

or that we don't even know is there, but is playing ging us.

huh? This is so how did you buy, get into this? Why did you decide to research this? yes. How did you discover that you had an addiction to drama?

Yeah, well, I was always in the arts, and that was an indicator that I like performing in front of thousands of people's, like that moment where you feel like the the rise of excitement and energy. I was like, all my god, I feel alive. And I don't feel that in the rest of my life interesting.

And I was going through divorce, my late twenties, and I was depressed. I was at the lowest point of my life. I had a moving with my parents. I just can function.

And I found that when I called my ex or gotten to fight with my sister, or watched brother, whatever IT was that, that created some type of tension. I felt alive again, and I started to reflect about back on that. I was like, weight.

So these moments of tension, of angst, of anxiety, of anger, that's when I feel alive. That's not the life I want to live. When I would watch the news and I would go a friend, like, did you that and I feel alive.

I feel part of something. I feel like we were an in group and we had something to share, and I thought belonging. And then the mm hung up. I felt alone again. I was like, oh, so that I don't want to live a life where the moments I actually feel relationship, either in fighting or in gossiping.

That's how a lot of people bond, I know, is by complaining or gossiping about other people, or complaining about their life, or raping about what's wrong.

Yeah, we drama. Ond drama logs on each other's fire and we feel like we're part of something. Yes, and I bring you into my tornado of chaos. And all the time I feel a sense of connection because my internal world is matching the external world and you're in IT and that just isn't a sustainable form of the relationship.

Is that true that you even fake your on suicide? Yeah so tell me that story.

Yeah I was in high school and I I was at my wits end. I was being bullied by teachers who told I was stupid by teachers that would never pass. High school has been shipped in a lockers, and I needed and out.

I needed a way of surviving, and I didn't want in my life. But I wanted people to feel the pain I was feeling so that they could somehow empathy finally, with me and save me. I wanted to be saved.

And so I set the scene, I wrote the note, I put the pills on the ground, I procreated the performance of my death. And what I came to understand later is what I called web ized apathy. Even though there were people in my life who could relate to me, let in my guard down, was too painful, was too scary, and so I couldn't actually recognize that there were people who could empathy with me.

The only way I could understand empathy was if they were in the same pain I was in or something in close to IT proximately to IT. It's like an eye for ee, right? And so many of us do that.

We see these fights with partners like if you don't like, you don't truly understand my pain. And so we we bully them into being in the same sense of pain we are in. So I did that as you know.

as a Young adult.

sixteen, the first time.

Wait the first time.

Yeah, I did. I didn't. I didn't get what I needed. And part of writing get what I needed is because I wasn't safe enough in my own body to receive people's love and care validation.

And we see that with those who addicted drama, and we say, like, i'm here for you and they don't hear IT. Because hearing that would mean they have to let the drawbridge down of relationship. And that would also let the bad things in.

That makes a lot of sense. You know, my mom is often, often said to me, why would I go to therapy my age? Yeah, so I to dig up all that stuff I don't want to deal with.

What if I find out I don't like my life? Yeah, what if I find out I don't like your father? What if I find out I don't like you? I got I don't want to like, let that in. And so there's a huge part of this that I can see is you're telling the story. What I see in myself, yeah, is that same business that trying to out run all the things that I did not want to have to face and realizing when I finally slow down these past couple years that I was actively blocking the love that people were trying to pour into me yeah, because I hadn't yet face the stuff yeah, that needed healing. So doctor Scott, let's take a quick pause, but we will be right back with more life changing information from doctor scotland's stay with us.

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Welcome back. I'm so glad that you are still here listening and hanging out with me and doctor Scott lions because we are on a mission to help you identify and remove the unnecessary drama from your life. So doctor is got your first attempt was when you were sixteen.

And then did they like, what how did your parents respond? What did they try to do to intervene? Like, did they send you the therapy? Did you go impatient? Like.

what did patient .

and did IT help? Did IT not?

Did IT? Yeah, I love IT. OK was a place of safety. K, and so they would let me out because I was doing so well, and i'd have to go back to that school where I was been bullied and I know, harmed by faculty. I mean.

and where you out at this point your life?

No no okay. So I wasn't even part of the conversation as to I actually got more bullied because I had such severe learning disabilities ah then I did about my sexuality. Goa, sometimes i'd be pushed in in the lockers because in called fag or other names. But really, I was like, that dumb kid.

H and then they started to, that was the error where they would, like, take a sad class and put you in the special track. And so you just know, yeah. And so this continued on, yeah, this seeking attention and wanting to be seen but not feeling seen yes.

seeking to be seen, not feeling and not able to accept being seen. And that's the conflict rate there is because even though it's something we want IT feels too dangerous to get IT. You know so many of us to be seen means that we're also been seen in the things that we are trying to avoid, the things that are too painful to be in contact with.

And so one of the aspects of addiction drama is to keep ran away from that point of contact, wishes ourselves, know when we have a really traumas. We disconnect to myself, we get a divorce for myself. We called that association right. And IT leads a void. K, and when we start filling that void up with anything, we can become dependent on IT, where IT is alcohol, whether it's drugs, whether it's sex, whether it's stress, and when we feel that void, what is also doing is it's helping us stay away from what's underneath that void, underneath that hole, at the pit of that hole, which is the root of so much suffering, which is our trauma.

How do you identify that it's drama that you're addicted to you keeping in mind that this might be the first time that the person listening yeah is considering? Wow, i'm always waiting for the next shooter drop. I'm always turn some up. Yeah I do bitch with my partner or pick fights.

or if you closer to them after a fight, then I do in moments of ease.

yes. So what you're saying that we pick fights to feel closer with somebody.

it's the places where we feel safer.

Why do we feel safer when we're fighting?

Well, one of the symptoms of addiction, damas, there's always a sense of disease. There is a sense of constant urgency. And from the outside, that looks like someone with addiction dramas like bulldozing, but on the inside, they feel out of sink.

But their own sense of timing feels disproportionate to the timing of other people. And their energy, their attention, their emotion are disproportionate to other people. And i'm going .

into physiology here IT.

The best example I can give is I was renting airbnb. And you know, there's a carbon oxide tetra. When the batteries that goes beep, yes, beef and a doesn't stop, yes, is so and so annoying. They somebody hit the carbon oxide detector and I couldn't .

find IT .

in this airbnb. And I was going, like every fifty five seconds I time did. And then I started to notice, oh my gosh, i'm actually in an anticipation state.

So i'm already getting ready for the next beat. I feel my body tencin. I feel my attention, zoo ming, in onto where could be.

And that's what trauma does. So often we think trauma just stored in the body. But trauma is also about how we get ready for the next possible trauma. X me more about that. So all of our senses, the way we smell, the way we here start to a tune like A T, V channel, to the next possible .

danger to we're looking for IT.

That is the filter of our life.

like IT could be your boss, that could friends could be all this stuff.

So all of our senses are more attuned towards danger than safety. So that is what we find. So when those who addicted to drama are like saying it's always something, it's because that is the channel to which they see the world.

That's the channel that's on the world that is dangerous. And so they constantly feel and are responding to that world of danger. They failed in the whole nervous system.

There's a sense of disease. There's disease is also because they feel disconnected to themselves. There's so much suppression, repression, because they had to disconnect from the trauma that stored in their body. In the symptom of that, that let us know there's a disconnection, is disease. We feel that sense of urgency because we're out of sink with the world as we know our world, if addicted to drama feels dangerous, the world that everyone else is just that look easy. So there is a sense of being a dissents out of sink with everyone.

So can I see another question? Because when you said yes, that word is always, are there other catch phrases that people that have this addiction to drama like i'm thinking about the fact that one of my daughters always says, and I used to say this too. I always feel like i'm on the outside, yes, looking, and I always feel like everybody else has not figured out. But I don't like, is that like a catch phrase that you might say yourself?

One ever gets me yeah. No one's ever here for me. No one's got my back. And then someone next year like, but i'm here with you. My friend picked me up from the airport maybe a year ago, and SHE brought all my favorite food and my favorite water.

And I had just gone through a break up, and I got in the car and I was like, she's like, how are you? I like, sad. I feel like, no, no one loves me and she's like, I just part you, your favorite food.

I picked you up from the airport and I was like, oh, gosh, you're right. Thank you for breaking me out of that. It's such an old script that I replace sometimes when i'm not feeling well or not feeling now secure in myself, but through out is I know there's love out there, but in my childhood couldn't be with IT. He wasn't safe.

You know, you're just helping me have a little bit of empathy for a friend of mine who I will not name. But this particular friend has this extremely annoying habit, yeah, of texting in the past, of aggressive way. What are we ever going to see you? Or heaven forbid, I am in the town that this person lives in.

Inevitably, if this person sees that I am in town, instead of getting a, hey, I see you in town, you have time, let's hang out it's, oh, thanks a lot for not saying that you were coming and i'm like, fuck you. Like, why? Why are you unloading this on me? And what you're making me see is that this person isn't a jerk. This person has an addiction to this drama. And they feel a sense of not being important.

There's a sense of not in an important, there's a sense of not been seen, which is a chronic and issue of the original trauma. And i'm assuming they go from seeing something on the internet and creating a narrative of story and then having an emotional response to the story as opposed to what's actually happening. yes.

And so what you could sometimes says, I hear the story you're creating, is that i'm not here for you, but if we can take a step back, i've love to get together and connect because this is the hard part about being someone, being around someone who's addicted. Drama is often they're rolling down the hill of drama that a ntia you cannot stop. I don't know about your friend, but if you were to say, like, i'm here, let's get together they're like, no, it's too late.

Yes, a thousand percent. You've hurt me. I don't know what I can do. Yes, everyone hurts me and they just keep pulling all these logs on and to burn their fire higher to drama fire. Yes, and you can't stop IT.

Well, I was doing this to myself. So that's an example of somebody and the external, internal river. Let me tell you the internal one. When I would say, boy, probably five or six years ago, as I was really starting to feel lonely, my kids were getting older and I was no longer seeing a lot of friends because ball super busy and i'm working all the time.

And I started to tell myself a story that I have no friends, and I started to tell myself a story that all of my old friends were always getting together, yes, and they were getting together without me. And I kept repeating the story, and I kept me isolated. IT kept me feeling lonely.

IT kept me from reaching out to people. yeah. IT made me feel separate from everybody else that actually made me miserable, because I convinced myself that all of our old friends, we're having wonderful parties and enjoying life, and everything was fantastic.

And we were the losers that nobody liked or ever invited anywhere. And of course, now I know nobody was getting together with anybody. Everybody was busy as hell and starting to feel lonely yeah. And IT was a complete dramatic scene yeah, that I had created and was the main character in yes.

yeah, that sounds so fucking painful.

What I think based on the number of comments and topic request that we get, yeah, I would be willing to put money on the fact that ninety percent of you listening can relate to that story yeah.

I think it's so common how we internally reb, we create these stories that reinach our childhood traumas that keep us further away.

Well, so for somebody who's never even consider this, could you give us an example that is relatable, yes, to how some kind of trauma that a lot of people may have experienced in their childhood might not even consider IT to be trauma. Can you give us an example of how that can create an addiction too drama as an adult?

Yeah so so most of us have some sense. Our life have not been seen and heard. That's A A kind of a very familiar wound for many of us.

And so especially as Young kids, what do we do? We don't have very many options. So we disconnect. We disconnect from the feeling we focus on something else. And it's a suppression, repression of IT.

I think I have an example. Yeah, and it's what I did to my kids. Okay, tell me so. When our kids were in middle school.

yeah.

I was starting to travel a lot, and my husband was the stay at home dad. And one of the things that are daughters in particular, say that we did terribly as parents is that my husband, because of how he was raised, would always say to them, try to get a ride home. yeah.

Meanwhile, i'm off traveling. I have no idea this is happening. I did not grow up in a family where anybody ever said try to get a ride home.

Yeah, I lived close enough to the school like a walk home, if worse came to worse. But our kids could not walk home from where they were. yeah. And so Chris, because of his frick and childhood where nobody picked him up, yeah, I was constantly telling our middle school daughters, see if you can get right home and so they would be feeling at the end of a soccer match the panic yeah, that they're responsible for bombing, ride home with somebody.

or abandoned.

or abandoned all of them. And and, and fast forward. Now, yes, I realize you that there is a lot of drama in our family around getting out of the house because IT becomes this like experience in our family yeah yeah because they have this unresolved issue yeah a feeling abandoned and then it's getting triggered when we as a family are trying to go somewhere and they're starting to feel like nobody is is going to be there on time. We're not going to be there on time. This is a very familiar experience and that is this an example of that?

Yeah, it's a beautiful example of the disproportionate like response to a very basic stimulus. Yes, it's like blowing out a candle with a firehose IT doesn't s it's like, oh, it's sprinkling outside. We Better go to the bomb shelter.

It's like we percent in our kitchen right now that the blowing out a candle with a firehose yeah less just pauses on that race because. I think we all know a number of people in our lives that blow the candle out with a firehose, that they get triggered and they completely tantrum.

Yeah, let's talk .

about what is IT like and how can you, in a healthy way, be in a relationship with somebody yeah who is addicted to drama?

Yes, because most of us knows someone who is addicted. drama. Important to recognize that a stress response, so someone who's an rony stress response that can happens in addiction and drama is that it's contagious. And so let's say, I was pretty nervous when I saw you today. Still am a little god.

I don't know. You're great.

Your great. And it's intimate all please. And someone in this room, or even you might start to pick IT up on a level you won't recognise.

K, yeah. So step consciously, you your physiology is responding to my physiology. That's evolutionary design. I'm running into the house or into the studio because I just got chased by snake and you don't even have to know it's chasing me. Your physiology is gna mere mine and preparation to be responsive.

I would imagine this is even faster and more addictive in a family. Yes.

because you registered the cute quicker.

I was shopping with our daughter this weekend and IT happened to us, yeah, yeah. She's stressed about, you know, life after college. And so she's already baseline, you can tell, starting to save her self up yeah to use the language of drama.

We are out shopping and SHE comes out of this dressing room and she's got on a pair of motorcycle boots. Just like, what do you think? And I said, those look just like the ones that I bought you five years ago.

And he says, why don't have those anymore? And the energy shifts, yeah. And I immediately feel the drama. And SHE then spins on her heels and stops back into the thing.

And then I feel myself ever up, because some thinking is SHE pissed to me because i'm not buying her a pair of boots like. And now i'm tense. yeah.

And IT escalated from there. yes. And i'm realizing that the dynamic that you've described of somebody having that flood of emotion.

嗯， 哼。

and then blowing out the candle with a firehose and stopping into a dressing room, she's feeling something deep in the moment, which is painful, which is, I don't know what i'm doing with my life, and i'm afraid i'm gonna figure IT out and the surface level fights are her seeking that connection with me? yeah.

SHE might not be able to be in contact with a pain. So what do we do? We distract ourselves from that pain by ding more sensation.

Well, so how do you deal with somebody who's constantly like this? Yeah.

so for one, recognize what's happening in your own body, kay, so the fact that you have that experience with your daughter, you started getting up from her riving, yes. So you got to find your anchor, find your ground shake IT off.

Oh god, what do you do? I texted somebody while he was in the dressing room yes, and i'm really black, just deep breathing and using the latter's theory because kindle is in a mood and then all of a sudden kendall responds back because he was in the group check and just said, you know, i'm in this group chat with you in land and then I wrote back to shi, and you are in a mood. What do you need?

And did that work.

You know, we stayed in the drama cycle yeah kinder for the rest of the day yeah and then the next morning.

yeah.

I text her and said, i'm out here for two days. I really, we want to have today go, well, what do you need for me? And you said, why don't we talk? And then we get in the car and in the safety of the car.

There's something about, I think, talking to somebody when you're side by side. Yes, first is looking them in the SHE just burst in the tears and she's like, you think I have at all figure out I don't like i'm I afraid i'm gonna make IT I don't I don't know what to do. I don't even know i'm out here.

I don't know how to get into like in IT all came pouring out and then I just apologize and I said, i'm really sorry you're right. I look at you and see and accomplished, put together confident Young woman who is doing the work. I don't ask you if you're okay because I assume you are and i'm sorry. Wow, IT was a deep level of fear and pain yeah that .

a lot of us experience .

when we're going through a major life change, which he is, those those first years out of college or out of high school or out of a relationship or out of a marriage are scary yeah as you're finding your way and I forget that yeah and so I can see that in that example that I just lived in the last four, eight hours, the drama yeah escalated ah because he didn't know how to talk about the painful thing which is i'm lonely out here and I feel lost and I don't know if i'm gonna make IT yes, in this big world as a singer, song writer, yes, and that's a lot. And so instead, we started fighting about the motorcycle boots. And that LED us to this existential.

beautiful conversation. It's such a prime example of how this little thing over here that's blown so add proportion that's so disproportionate to what's actually underneath the hood yeah. And if we can get underneath the hood, the drama often like settles. And how do .

we do that? Doctor, no, seriously. Because I think like I can think I see this everywhere. Yeah I see the fact that when my parents came to visit me in vermont, yeah at the first time visit us since we moved there three years ago, and they came IT was a beautiful visit. But as soon as my parents relieving, my mom started to go, well, I guess we'll do things giving in fla when the plan had been for all of us, an extended family to come. And SHE started just saying IT and saying IT and saying IT and saying IT and the old me, yeah, would have gotten .

pissed off. I would .

have felt controlled. I would have been angry about the campaigning to change your plan. And I would have felt offended when he said, well, you and your brother can get together that that might.

The fact that i'm going to florida doesn't mean that, you know, you can't do what you're doing all i've ever said as I want our family to do thanksgiving together, I seen in that moment yeah and so here's the thing though, when I really unhooked myself and I went under the hood, here's what I thought. When was the last time that we were all together? When was last time we actually did all travel to them? And I was quite a while ago. And so when I didn't get into the drama cycle and I just took a deep breath and I was like, what's actually going on under here?

That's exactly the question that needs to be asked me.

Okay, so that's the technique. If you you're dealing with the friend, the text you I see you in town, oh, not too late or not to getting together or the fight .

about shopping or the the part of that we can use like functional reframes. So we go, what do we imagine the story underneath their story, the feelings underneath their story? What is the unspoken needs that are actually present? And that takes a fair amount of empathy, but is a skill set for ourselves.

So we don't get involved in the okay, that's part of a boundary OK. So you know, again, recognizing what's happening in your own body, settling yourself, do not attempt to take them off the rolling hill. Okay, that is never onna work. It's like, hey, what's going on with you?

Yes.

that just is a fucking log on their fire. Yes, you are .

square, so quiet. Put your hand on your heart and take a breath and literally go let them, yeah, let them spire. Let them blow the candle out with the firehouse.

Yes, sometimes you have to let them run their cycle OK so that you can then enter in. And usually the cycle ends with the collapse in the drama cycle.

Well, a lot of times, what I saw from the listeners that wrote in is that there's the eruption, yes. And then there's the silent treatment because the person doesn't know or doesn't want to, or isn't emotionally mature enough to repair the situation. So what do you do when you get the .

eruption and then .

the ice silent treatment, or the pretending like nothing ever even happened. How do you handle that?

Go talk to a friend, a therapist, to validate your experience, okay, you know, don't rely on their sense reality to match yours. The more you try to put that pressure on yourself or them to have that neutral reality, the more chAllenging you will find IT to be in your own sense of piece. The one diagram of where the overlap of realities happen is small in those moments because they are pulling in the past, in the future as opposed to the present.

What's help me a lot of understanding that when somebody does that.

yeah they are .

having an experience in their bodies where they experience some wave of emotion that they literally can't tolerate IT. So they puk IT out of you.

The relationships become the depository for the emotions.

So is the reason why this is an addiction is because emotional outputs, or creating this raved up state your body or keeping yourself in a loop where your like nobody gets me, nobody gets me, nobody loves me, nobody takes care of me how is the classified as an addiction scot?

The addiction typically has at least five characteristics, okay, including you build up a tolerance level to IT um you have with raw symptoms, you don't care about the social consequences of the action of the behavior, IT occupies a lot of your energy and attention and all of these things really fit into addiction drama. An example of tolerance is you need more to feel more. You need more to get drunk.

And the same story with stress, that we start to need more stress or more of anything in that regard to feel more. I thought I was super capable of dealing with stress. I just built up a tolerance level for IT, which are meant that I needed more over scheduling.

I needed to be in more grad programs. At the same time, I needed more intense relationships to get that high, to get that hit. That then gives me a sensation of you and alive.

That gives me a sense of energy, gives me that pain relief. I needed more to feel more. So that's tolerance. Withdrawal symptoms shows up as things like anxiety and boredom. It's part of the collapse. It's like, i'm so bored and we struck in that age, you know that each of, like, I ve got to do something gotta get tattoo or I I don't know what he is, but I feel like that each gets mad if I get into a little friction with a friend, or I go watch the news or go domes, screw len, something feels stimulating, takes me out of that bodow and more importantly, out of the society, because at the base or the bottom of the anxiety is all the things I am trying to avoid, all the feelings that have been tuck down or haven't had the spacetime permission support to process.

What's interesting about what you're saying is if you're bored, you could pick up a book .

of mary Oliver poem.

pick up a book of, like fabulous fiction. But if what you stimulate bottom with is doom scrolling or turning on, uh, some crime junky thing. I remember when we had the extraordinary doctor, tam a brian, on the podcast, and he said something that really struck a nerve and has gone crazy viral. And its social idea of, if you have trauma your background, you really want to examine why you to watch, yeah, these crime shows or these horror shows or these violent entertainment shows at night. And SHE was saying that that is because it's familiar to you.

I would kill a little further OK for million. So we're in the reinstatement pattern. But what does that do for you?

What does that do for you? That gives you that goes back to the three things that gives you pain relief. IT gives you distraction and that gives you energy.

How does he give you pain relief?

I still don't understand that. So we have two main natural pain relievers OK. nobody. We get IT from connection art, and we get IT from stress.

So how is stress of pain reliever? Because I hear the words stress and i'm like that pain.

So it's in preparation for what we do as part of a stress response. You're going to get into a fight. You already need the pain relief, the cascade of ormonds that gives you the pain relief in preparation, to deal with, in adapt to the circumstances. So also in in love IT like IT releases the hormones that then blocks the pain IT. IT essentially gives us a distraction technique.

gotcha. So you're basically feed up on the couch, your watching some sort of like dramatic, violent you're in in, entertained everyone. yeah. And the stress is rising. But because you're distracted and the stress is flooding your body, IT relieves you of that boredom and of the restlessness that you felt which made you not want to sit with a book of poems or historical fiction.

What is IT that we're not attending to yourselves when we're attending to something on the outside that is stressful?

I want to further break this down because I think it's really important what you just taught us. So so if I were still in a space of my life where I was frustrated with my inability to control my emotions that used to be me out nasty tone .

of um unloading .

on my family when I had a stressful network venting all of IT if you had told me to just take in myself awareness I would have thought for a second, okay, i'm taking in that I am not in controlled my emotions and i'm taking in that I wanted change this and that a good thing and a millisecond later I would go, doctor Scott, that's not enough what do I need to .

do up even the reaction yes that well that's .

not gonna work ah is you raving up those old negative pathways yes. Holly, should you stay out of relationship .

with yourself at any cost, including blaming me or creating a narrative, whatever other form of revenue you use? To stay out of relationship with what feels vulnerable.

how long do I have to just sit with IT before i'm doing something else? So that's we build up a tolerance.

We titrated IT OK. So maybe it's a second OK, maybe it's literally one second. And then we build IT up to five seconds, ten seconds. IT doesn't have to all be at once.

What a good way to ask for help.

So we build awareness, we build acceptance. And and in that acceptance or that validation is also a bit of starting to open up to be seen because underlying the explosion is something that isn't being seen. So I don't feel like anyone's got my back in the family.

I don't feel like anyone helps me clean. So I feel all alone. And that reminds me of that my part yeah, when I didn't get picked up from soccer practice. Thanks for that.

Yeah on and so we're starting to build enough space between the reflection of response like because IT goes like that, right? It's in the blink of an eye when we get into the drama cycle. So we start to recognize, okay, can I build enough space between when I start to read and when I go into that total cathartic blow up of OK.

then you're a shame cycle.

Then you're in the I live .

that for so long. And one of the things that helped me a lot, and it's a very hard wait to ask for help, but I at one point SAT with my family and just said, I don't want to be like this and I need your help. I need you to tell me when my tone of voices demeaning.

I need you to tell me when I am venting, because it's gotten to be such a level that I pull reflexively. And what was interesting is that the more they would be like, mom, watch your tone, the more I would then have to practice feeling the engine rev up. But here's what happened that was really interesting is that IT forced me when I no longer could get away with unloading my stress and drama on my family.

yeah. IT forced me to focus on the reality that I was profoundly overwhelmed at work, yeah, and had not prioritized building an exceptional team. And I felt very alone and I felt unseen and I felt like nobody got IT.

And the drama was keeping me trapped in a broken system in my own business and in communicating with my family. I think what ultimately happens when you have the courage to look at where you're driving yourself up yeah or where you're in the cycle of picking fights or exploding on people and then you know it's not working. I think that there is the potential that this unravel. Something incredibly beautiful and deep that you didn't even realize was the issue in .

the first place.

I love what you're teaching us. I want to read you a question from one of our listeners. Sha, my oldest is thirty and constantly blames me for things.

And then when I get upset with her, SHE likes to label me and call me an abuse er because you can't get way, whether IT be for ride somewhere or a new cell phone. And we have tried that. No, you're not getting IT to just giving in and giving her what he wants.

Her father and I are very passive people. We do not like confrontation. What do you suggest for changing this dynamic with our daughter?

It's parted that you put a boundary up .

and how do you do that?

So it's saying, what are you actually willing to say yes and no to how much of of that OK? So it's like, okay, abusers, not to worry, allow the family that can be a boundary. It's like, hey, when you call me that, IT shuts me down. IT doesn't give me closer to you. IT doesn't give me closer to what your needs are and what I care about most of this relationship.

What I hear in this dynamic, yeah, is a child using their parent like a lanky life is hard. So i'm gonna call and vomit on you and and a new cell phone, because I think a new cell phone is the way to solve all my other problems in life yeah. And if you're still making your parents buy your cell phone plan at the age of thirty, you ve got bigger problems than needing a new cell phone.

That there is a dynamic where the dramatic person is in control of the relationship and the drama is what makes everybody jump. So I just styles up and up and up and up. yes.

And when we say, like, avoids confrontation, avoids conflict, that's a flag to me, where I go, who we got to pick under, what's on the hood.

And that, well, here, the other thing, if you are in a situation with somebody who's dramatic, you're always in conflict. Because not saying what you feel and not calling people out on their shit causes a ton of editor, an engine driving for the person whose passive.

absolutely, if you are the person who is enabling someone addicted drama, guess what? So are you?

Oh my god. Say that again.

I would get into the space between my parents and referee their fight. Been in that position. Look IT IT IT.

Create safety for me. But I found that I was a referee in my entire life. I I did a profession doing couples work, working with people. And I realized that I am getting something, a physiological review response, by being the murder.

Well, I think actually for you, if you're listening to this and you're the past of one yeah or you don't want confrontation, or you think is just easier to let IT slide, doctor Scott, here to tell you that getting kind of trapped by somebody else's drama is your own issue with drama.

When you recognize you have choice in agency, when you have power again to say no or walk away, then you can actually be in relationship with someone who's addicted a drama, when you are being trapped done, when you have no choices even for yourself, then you are part of IT. And i'm not turning to victim blame. That's not what it's happening here, but to recognize our own contribution to our suffering is imperative.

That reminds me of what doctor rusal Kennedy said we interviewed them, which is his research and belief is that all anxiety stamps from your unmet need to be loved when you're little, it's the little you, it's a little you saying I need help break now, yeah, I always .

think of anxiety as the telephone ringing, as the sound of the ring of the telephone. And so when I feel anxiety, I go, okay. I can either participate in anxiety and worry about worrying, or I can pick up the phone and see what's present in my body.

a beautiful for image.

And so healing addiction to dramas, not about beans. Then what is about that is symbol shit. What is about? It's truly about being able to be OK.

I can accurately use the right amount of energy, emotion, attention to ride and serve the chAllenges. I can be in flow. I can be involved.

I can belong to myself. I can belong to community. I can be a part of this world. Feel and sink and adapt.

functionally adapt. I think what you're talking about is a game changer. And IT makes IT accessible for somebody.

对， because you can spot drama a mile away. You can fill the rising up in your own body. And IT is very hard to cycle down the drama and someone else. But if you want to, the best way to do IT is to create more peace in yourself. Because if somebody else is getting all dramatic, or triggers red, or they are blown out the candles with a fricking firehose filled with sewage, if you can stay in your centers place of peace, yes, because you have trained yourself, yes, to not join in with somebody else is stress and drama, which you are capable of doing. This is a freaking superpower.

And when you talk about finding your feeling peace, I would go the next step and ask you, what can you do with that piece? You can function in so many environments, you can be around someone who's addicted drama and be untethered to them. amazing. So .

doctor's scot, you give us just a couple very simple things ah that someone can do today to start to break the addiction to drama or remove unnecessary term oil from their life.

Yeah, coin phrase, critical safety word with your family, with those you trust and you love of them signaling back to you. Like, hey, you're starting to rev up.

I like rev up. V up sounds good. Like that fuel, right?

Yeah start to recognize what are the things that review up. I I always, I say, take a media fast. Yeah, part of recognizing the job.

But the media is to get and gain your attention to capture IT. And they use the devices of drama to do IT. Yeah, they use our in anger as the three main devices to capture you and to get you to share what they are sharing.

I don't even watching this because I figure if there's something very significant knowing on everybody will .

be talking about IT boston marathon bombing. They found that those who watched the news, hamid, showed more significant signs of P, T, S, D than those who are there at present at the bombing. Well, because of the massive repetition over and over and showing, and the added language that they threw on top of that.

So take a media break is a big one. Choose your words wisely, recognize that the words you use have impact not only on other people, but yourself. So I am using the word like, now, when you said that, I just feel like you're total abuse.

Can I step back and choose my words more wisely? That feel aligned not to the dramatic, to the intensification of things, but to what is true. It's like, uh, when you said that, I felt kind of paint.

So stepping back, choose your words wisely. Forgive yourself is a big one if you are listening to this and you're like, oh, shit, this is me, me, or this is everyone else I know. And maybe, maybe it's me, who knows? Forgive yourself this, this is not your fault. There are certain conditions that created this, this survival mechanism, this way of needing drama. To avoid the underline drama, forgive yourself for the action you've done and take responsibility for them at the same time for the change that you can make as part of your own healing.

great. Well, doctor scot lines, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here with us and for giving us not only this really interesting insight, but also specific things that we can do to and the unnecessary turmoil that we create for ourselves when we become addicted to drama. Thank you for .

being such a beautiful support and vulnerable, the time to share your own life experiences to make this so much more accessible to people.

My pleasure. I got a lot of drama, or I did, oh my god. H. I got more out of that.

Then I thought I would, and I also found IT so helpful to use the framework that we were just learning in real time to really unpack what happened with my daughter kindle this weekend. And I hope you found IT helpful too, because you deserve to protect your peace. You deserve to get rid of all of this drama that is not serving you. And when you do that, you will create a Better life. And one more thing I want to make sure, I remind you that I love you and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to do just that already talking a few days.

We're roll in, right? Did you fall this? yeah.

Oh my god. Look at you. OK. Here we go.

So if you say the word stress and then notice what happens .

to your breath, but because I will sell kind of calm, and then you said, say the words stressed and I if I say the I think like stress. Oh my god, you have a lot of degrees. I think .

we got IT.

ladies and gentleman, doctor Scott land. Alright, let's go.

Oh, and one more thing I know, this is not a bleepers. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers, right? And what I need to read you.

This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a license therapies, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional.

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