Never Enough: 7 Ways to Protect Yourself (and Your Kids) From Toxic Pressure
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Hey, it's your friend mel, and welcome to the movin' podcast. Alright, today I have to talk you about something that happened this weekend and I had no idea that I was internally freaking out about this topic, but I know you're going to relate to IT. Here's what happened.

So i'm in the middle of the fall of my son's senior of high school. So we are in the thick of IT with college applications, right? And one of the things that i've loved about living in southern vermont is that nobody really talks about IT.

So I haven't really felt the pressure cooker that the college application process can be, but I was out and about, and I bumped into a woman that I know, and we were just chit chatting, and all the sudden question came up. So does no, nowhere is applying to college and I said, yeah, actually figured that out there, four schools he's going to apply to and I think personally, he'd be super happy at two of them in particular. He said, does he have a first choice? And I said, as a matter of fact, he does.

He's going to apply early decision to this particular school. And SHE passed and said, oh, and I was like, I know it's a really competitive school, but he does have the grades and he's right in the range of the kind of student that they accept. But these days, everything is so competitive that you just never know and he said, well, we thought that to about our son.

He applied dd, and he ended up knock getting in. They took two other people from the school, but they didn't take him. There was something about the way that her tone of voice was that my heart went.

And I don't know what happened. I became that freak. I became that psychopathic was something in me that was like, what you mean? What mean that you mean he's not to get? You mean he's within range and we're going to take other somebody else. And I became that parents, that office is started to own their kids choices and success and their outcomes.

And I came racing home, and I was like, oak, oak, have you written your college? Sy, how is the process going? Can I take a read of IT? Can I see that is like, yes, you can read IT and he sent IT to me first draft, i'll be honest, not that great.

IT made my her cope even more and then I go to say to him, um, is this done? I mean, this is not what you're submitting. I mean, this doesn't even sound like you and he's like, mom, could you back off? I'm working with IT at the councils at school.

This is the first draft. Can you get off my back? It's all we talk about at school ba. So whether you're in the college application process or not, you have experienced IT yourself or with somebody that you love. And you know, there is something psycho weird about how competitive things have gotten.

I mean, I always joke that when I applied to college back in nineteen eighty five, if I were playing today, I would never get in because of how crazy competitive things have gotten. And I have prided myself are not getting sucked into this. I have meant IT when I have told you that I do not put the bumper stickers on my cars, that their achievements are not a reflection of my parenting, that my kids need to own the process.

They will end up where they are meant to end up, that they will get the lessons they need. They will figure that out. I believe that.

But there was something about somebody going, oh, well, that didn't happen out, that may go. And I went crazy for about forty eight hours. Well, thankfully, I bombed to do.

Another friend of mine shut out to page and page, and I were talking, and he was saying that he was reading this incredible book. And I was like, really, what is the name of the book? And just like, yet so incredible, it's called never enough.

And you gotta get this woman on your podcast. And I like, what's IT about? And SHE said, the entire book is about something called grind culture.

And the way that we are prioritising what this author calls toxic achievement, how parents we've gotten super sucked into IT, how we've gotten super sucked into IT, I said, page, say no more you are like an Angel from the heavens who is hitting me with a sledge hammer saying, melroses ins, you ve got to talk about this pressure we are all feeling and so you know what i'm going to do I reached right out to Jenny walls. That's right. SHE has written a book called never enough.

Jennie is an award winning harvard educated journalists from sixty minutes. SHE is also a journalism fellow at the center for parent and teen communications at the children's hospital of philadelphia. And I got a copy of this book, never enough. I dug into IT.

And I just want you to get ready because we're not only gona talk about how you break free from the grand culture and how you can get your life and your piece of mind and your controller, we're going to talk about a deeper topic because he says that the way that you break free from grand culture and toxic achievement is to actually focus on something else. The thing that you and I was seeking and where would explain what that is in this conversation. So please help me welcome Jenny wallis to the mill rob's podcast. Thank you so much for having me.

Jenny.

thanks so much for jumping on so quickly with me. And I just really want to to jump into IT. You have this term that you call the ground culture. And I think even though we don't know what the definition is, we all feel that we're in the thick of IT.

It's this stress and this pressure to do more all the time and that when you're not doing more, it's never enough to no matter how successful you are, it's never enough. No matter what school you get into, it's never enough. And so I want to start off with the terms that you use in your research. What is the grand culture?

Grand culture, to me, is a set of messages that tell us we are only as good as our productivity, our performance, what we make, the grades we get, the college we get into. So IT is your worth, is contingent upon your performance.

That makes a lot of sense. And I think we all understand what that is because we all feel this like vice on our heads right now. But you also use the term in your research, toxic achievement. What exactly is toxic achievement?

Toxic achievement is um you know running for the next goal because you feel like you are not worthy until you hit that next go. Like you've got ta get a good grades.

You've got to be on the winning sports team. You gotta make the team. You've like be at the best school.

You ve got to be in the A P classes. You gotta do great on the S A S. Like this constant I am mosaic grind culture that is created by the parents, putting the emphasis on the achievement.

I worry about our kids because I don't feel like I felt that pressure when I was their age. And I know a lot of you were worried about either your kids or your nieces and nephews ws or your grandchildren or you felt this pressure. And even though you're through college, you feel this pressure to climb the latter, you feel this pressure compared to what your friends are doing.

You feel this pressure because you're not making the money, your friends and finance or making. So that's toxic achievement. What is healthy achievement?

Healthy achievement is recognizing your strengths, recognizing that you need other people to reach for these high goals. And if you miss IT, if you miss a goal to not feel as though it's an indictment against your worth.

that makes a lot of sense. And so here's how I want to handle this because your work is primarily focus, Jenny, on the toxic achievement and grand culture aimed at children and teenagers and Young adults and how it's impacting their mental health and how it's back firing and not working. But IT relates all of us.

And so here's what we're going to do in this conversation. Number one, I want you to unpack your research for us. okay.

And then what I want to do is I want to go to the deeper conversation that relates to all of us, which is the root cause of toxic achievement. We can all feel IT. It's never enough. But how the hell did we get here?

yes. So what's happening today is that parents are becoming, in the words of researchers, social conduits. They are trying to prepare their kids for this uncertain, competitive future.

And IT comes out in our parenting. We tend to become more controlling. We tend to become more perfectionism and what we're demanding of our kids, and not to blame parent.

but why not hold on a second? I D blame myself. And I don't have a problem with IT. By the way, this is so relevant to me, as boss do, to take responsibility for how you take the pressure that you feel and pass IT on to somebody else.

You have a huge impact in other people's lives based on how you process and handle the pressure that you feel. And you just jam that down your kids or your colleagues or your friends throats because you can't tolerate IT yourself. And so I think there is a massive role that parents play that they need to wake up and start taking responsibility for.

I don't disagree with you. Lame is is the word that I am tired of. I guess what i'm trying to tell parents is to zoom out and put into context the anxieties and the fears that they are feeling so that they can see them.

It's not personal. Every parents feeling this. I worked with a harvard researcher to conduct a first of its kind parenting survey, and we were hoping to get a symbol size of a thousand parents. And within a few days, sixty five hundred parents had filled IT out, and there were these universal themes that parents today feel responsible for my children's achievement and success.

Does that concern you? IT concerns me when our .

parenting behaviors are not conductive. Ve to raising healthy achiever. S, when I was growing up in the seventies and eighties, like my parents, yes, they would buy me a tannis racket or a pair of running shoes, but they didn't feel like they had to push me to the front of the pack.

And I think today, parents, not only do they feel that responsibility, they think other people are judging them on that as well. I asked how many agreed with others think that my children's academics success is a reflection of my parenting. Eighty three percent of parents agreed with that statement. So it's not only that we feel responsible for making sure their successful in the future, but other people are judging us.

I agree with you. And in fact, this reminds me that this is the first time in U. S. History anyway, that kids are worse off than their parents, worse health outcomes, life expectancy, higher anxiety rates, higher depression rates, worried about the environment to changing job market. It's no wonder everybody is stressed out.

Yes, I asked parents. So we're talking about the stress that their feeling in their homes, right? I said, how many of you agree or disagree with the statement on a scope? One of four, I wish today's childhood was less trustful for my kids. Eighty seven percent of parents agreed with that statement.

I wanted know who of the thirteen that didn't? My god, maybe I weren't the question wrong. At the .

end of this survey, I asked parents if they would be willing to be interviewed, and hundreds of parents reached out. And so I traveled the country listening to these stories over and over again. IT was the same story, the the, the sleepless nights by their kids in order to cramp, ban all the p classes, the weekend spent at soccer tournaments, missing family gatherings, missing birthday parties. The mother in alaskon me, her kids never understood what a thanksgiving meal really was because they were always on the road going to socket tournament on thanksgiving ving. So um I guess what what surprisingly the most was how universal this feeling was and how honest .

parents were about IT. That's exactly what we're talking about, that there is the ability to strive and to want to achieve something and to do IT in a very healthy way rather than amp up the pressure and the stress that we feel.

Yes, and I can't wait to hear what we need to focus on in order to get back to the kind of life where you are focused on healthy achievement instead of being driven to the race to nowhere based on this toxic grand culture and this pressure that we feel. So how do we get there? You.

at the root of all this suffering, is an unmet need to feel like we matter for who we are at our core. seriously?

Yeah, I mean, I thought we were talking about achievement. Now you're talking about mothering, kind of a wishy topic. You don't have to break this down for me and for the person listening because you're talking about doing, doing, doing as the problem but somehow being being, being and feeling like a matter how are we going to get there? Yeah as part .

of my research, I went in search of the healthy drivers. I wanted to know what, if anything, they had in common. What was home life like for them? What was their relationship like with their peers? What was school like? And I found about fifteen or so common threats that these healthy achiever s had in common.

And as I was looking for a framework to present my findings, I came across the psychological construct of motoring. It's been around since the nineteen eighties. IT was first conceptualized by marris s rose enberg, who brought us the idea of self, a steam.

And what he found in the eighties was that students who thought a healthy level of self a steam felt like they mattered, that they were important to their parents and known for who they were at their core, that their value was in contingent on their performance or what they looks like, or what team they made. And they were also depended on to add meaningful value back to their families, to their friends, to their communities. They experiences this high levels mattering, because they had social proof.

They believed at their core that they were valued, and then they saw IT in action with how they were adding value to those around them. So when they stumbled, when they had to step back, they didn't feel like I was an indictment of their worth. They were able to bounce back.

Oh, wow. yeah.

Mattering is a core need that we all have to feel important, significant and like we make an impact on the world to matter. We need to feel valued for who we are at our core, by our families, by by our colleagues, spe our friends and our larger community.

And importantly, we need be dependent on we need to be relied on to add that back to our families, to our colleagues or friends and to our larger communities when we experience that feeling valued and adding value. That's when we have a high level of matta ing and mattering acts like a protective shield against anxiety, depression. It's not that the students that I met who experience this high level of mattering who were striving in healthy ways IT didn't mean they didn't have failures or setbacks.

But what mattering IT is IT acted like a boy. IT helped to lift them up when they had to sit back, when they felt like that they were fAiling. IT wasn't an engagement of their worth.

The kids who seem to be suffering the most were kids who felt like they only mattered when that their mattering was contingent, their value was contingent. The other group that seemed to be suffering the most where kids who felt like they were valued at home, but no one ever dependent or relied on them. So what happens is they lacked social proof that they mattered.

This is the exact same thing that all the research has proven to be true about people who succeed at work and people who don't, that there is this underlying theme of feeling like you matter to the people that you work with, to the person that is your manager, and that your contributions are important. And so that makes sense to me that this would be the exact same construct that would either make a student feel invisible, or that they mattered, or make a student feel like I only get the attention I need at home when my grades are amazing and my parents have something to brag about. I wanted to pull this apart just a little bit more, because I immediately .

latched .

on to you saying, if you don't have social proof that can plumb yourself a steam, what is, what do you mean by social proof?

right? So social proof tells the student or an adult that you, you are important in this world. You make a positive impact on the world around you.

The the idea of mattering, whether it's for students or four people at work, for people who are retired, mattering matters throughout life, Young, old, rich, poor, there is what researchers call an instinct matter. So beyond food and shelter, IT is the instinct to matter that researchers say drive all of human behavior for Better or for worse. When we feel like we matter, we show up in the world in positive ways we achieve and healthy ways.

We want to get back to society. We want to be a good neighbor or we want to be a great colleague. We want to lift people up because we have this deep core of mattering.

When we feel like we don't matter, when we are made to feel marginalized, we can either fall inward, get depressed, anxious, lean on substances to defeat our, our, our lonely ess, or we can act out. So a school shooter is, you know, among the most tragic examples. You don't think I matter, i'll show you I matter.

This is a universal need that we all have. And we are living in a society where IT is going on, met for too many people. And that, to me, is the driving force behind the loneliness we're feeling, the anxiety that we think we're not worthy, the depression when we, when we feel invisible, when no one cares about us, or when we think no one cares about us.

So IT sounds like we all have this innate, important, critical need to feel as though we matter in the world at large, or to other people that we have something to contribute. And that is the core issue that most of us are struggling with. And the symptoms that is not being met are things like loneliness, feeling angry, anxiety. All of those things rise to the surface when this core need isn't matt I wearing.

I really wanted on like dig deeper and deeper into this because I think when in our audience, which is now in one hundred and ninety four countries, when people write in I have no friends, I don't know what to do with my life, I believe this is an issue that this person has no social proof that they matter. Can you give us examples of what is social proof that you matter? yeah.

In a corporate event, a thirty year old raised his hand and he said, sometimes I feel like I don't matter. Is there a montreal I could say to myself to help me put myself in that matters mindset? And I said, no.

I said, here's what you need to do. You need to go down to your cafeteria and you need to smile at the cafeteria lady who always smiles at you and asks you how your day is going. And you need to say to her, these days have been a little rough for me, but knowing that you're gonna be there are greeting me with this delicious meal, making me smile.

You brighten my day every day. I just wanted you to know that unlocking the mattering in other people fees are own Mandarin. So instead of a mantra, go out and behind and caring to the person at the drug store who's ringing up, who's probably being attacked day in and day out or not moving vast enough, and just thanking them, just thinking everyday, people thanking a friend who's been there for you.

Just a quick text IT IT mattering is felt, you know, in big moments, right, when we are celebrating a milestone birthday and somebody gives a toast to us and tells us why we mattered to them. But it's also found in little everyday moments, too. I just remember distinctly tly.

I was at at an office party with my husband, and a guy was talking to me, but on his phone, in texting the entire conversation, and I thought to myself, well, W, I really don't matter to the sky. He wasn't being rude to me. He was just showing me, yeah, you don't matter as much as the stone. So when we when our kids come up to talk to us and we're scrolling over doing a working email, they can be getting those small signals of not matter oring like I got at A T at the office party.

Wow, that is fascinating. And I want to take a quick pause. We need to hear award from our sponsors who allow us to bring this amazing content to you for free.

So let's take a listen because they matter, and we'll be right back with more from Jenny walls. Stay with us. Oh, i'm so excited to tell you about our our sponsors or a friends. I love them.

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Welcome back. I'm here with Jenny wallis, who's just finished a four year long research project. She's written a book never enough, and she's helping you in me break this cycle that we're trapped in of toxic achievement and focus on what actually matters in life. So Jenny, you recommend when kids come home from school that there's one question that you ask that shows that you matter. What is that question?

I lead with lunch. What does I mean?

So.

so what I used to do before researching this book is my kid. I would come home and thinking how you do on the spanish quiz, how to go on your report today. And what I realized in doing the research was that the city I was sending my kids, one, was that achievement mattered to.

This is what i've been thinking about all day, what they were in school um and so instead now when they walk in the door, I lead with lunch. I ask them, what do you have for lunch today? And I got that idea because my grandmother, in every conversation I would have with her shy since passed away, he would always be, what did you have for lunch? IT was, I care about you.

I care about your nourishment. I care about things that have nothing to do with how you look, look great. You got how your career is going. I just care about you and your basic needs.

And what did you see change in the dialogue with your kids when you started asking about launch instead of the spanish test?

I well, first of all, what I have realized and what the research shows is my kids don't need me to ask about their spanish test. They already are getting the signals everywhere. That achievement matters so much.

My home needs to be a place for kids to recover from the pressure they are feeling from their peers, from their pierce parents, from teachers, from the college admissions process. My home needs to be a haven from that pressure, though. I don't need to ask about their spanish quiz because they're going to tell me it's already on their minds.

So is the same true when your partner comes home from work or your roommates come home from work? How do you signal that they matter to you? What's the question that you ask?

What was the best part of your day? What mattering to me is, is that I value for who you are at your core. IT is not contingent on your performance.

It's not content on how you look that day, is not contingent on how many days you're going on. You matter no matter what unconditional mattering. And we need to be a source of unlocking IT in other people.

I love the advice that if you want to unlock this sense of mattering and if you, anna, build your own self, estee, put your attention on other people and unlocked in them, make eye contact, smile, point out what you appreciate the people are doing through thank people, compliment their nails is so easy to do. And not enough of us are doing IT.

And you do get back this recipe, al, exchange of energy that makes you feel important because you just made somebody else smile, or you just made somebody else light up when you set their name. There was a gale study that was done that I found to be shocking, that something like eighty percent of people haven't been told by their boss that they're appreciated in the last year. Not a single acknowledgement that what you do here matters.

And I appreciate you for doing IT. And that, to me, is stunning, except for the fact that the same research showed, if I recall correctly, that most people assume you know how I feel about you. And that's the huge mistake that we're all making, that we assume that our kids know that we love them.

But we never say that, that we put our attention on other things like the spanish test, which then cues to somebody that's what he cares about, that's all that he cares about. She's really happy when the team wins. She's not so happy when we don't. And so I think what you're revealing is this real thin veil that separates us from one another that we don't realize we need to have to get super, super about.

One of the reasons that people research finds us that, that we don't tell people how much they mean to us and how much we appreciate them is we because we think they are going to be embarrassed by our feedback, really. And yeah, there's a research on gratitude about why people don't express their gratitude because they underestimate how the other person will receded. And sometimes they think they are embarrassed the other person. But the research does not bear that out. So just to clear up any misconceptions.

you said that eighty plus percent of parents believe that if your kid is doing poorly on a tester, gets bad grades. IT is a reflection on your parenting. But you've got this amazing reframe. What does a bad grade mean?

Yes, I got this wonderful advice from child psychologist lisa demo, and I have used IT in my own home as well. So when a child brings home a bad grade, instead of dismissing IT or saying that, okay, help them, why than their perspective, here's what, here's what a bad grade on on a one off test tells you. That tells you that that's what you knew that specific day IT.

IT doesn't mean how much your teacher loves you. IT doesn't mean how well you're going to do in the future. IT doesn't to find who you are as a student. It's one test on one particular day, and we all have that days.

I love that. I love that. You have this incredible family model. I would love for every family to adopt this. Can you share IT with us?

So in our family, we have a mantra, which is to never worry alone. And that's true of us as parents and also of our kids and what I what I hope to instill in my kids with that, monta, is the idea that we are worthy of support. We are worthy of being held and nurtured and um and supported when we are having setbacks.

We are not our setbacks. Our worth is our worth. And when we worry with others, we feel validated.

We hear our worth. We see IT in the support that others give us. We get that social proof that we are valued no matter what.

Whatever you do, don't don't worry alone. That's when we get into trouble to reach out for support. You know, we think as parents, our job is to raise self reliant, independent adults, and that is an important thing to do.

But there is a more profound lesson that our kids need to learn if we want to raise them to be healthy. And that is the skills of interdependence, how to rely on others and how to have others rely on them in healthy ways. And so that's where they don't worry alone comes from, is part of the skills that i'm trying to teach my kids of independence oh.

wow, that's so important. You're write. And we do focus on pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and being self reliant and taking responsibility, that modeling healthy connection and interdependence, getting support when you need support, talking about your feelings.

We got a model that too, and if you're not, you're teaching somebody to suffer in silence the way that so many of us have for generations. One of the thing that I love that you wrote about was that being good enough is way Better than being perfect. Why is that?

yes. So I talk about this in the book that when my oldest was born, almost eighteen years ago, I thought about going back to graduates, want to get A P. H.

D. In psychology so I could be the perfect parent with the latest research. And I know, yeah, what I found is that perfection as a parent does not serve me, and IT does not serve my kids.

What serves as both Better is this idea of being good enough. And the good enough mother is responsive to her kids needs. SHE doesn't meet every need because SHE can't only, you know, no one can, but to be responsive, to acknowledge IT, to validate the need and to do the best that you can do.

And that takes us off the hook. S parents, not, you need to be perfect. And that helps our kids regulate their emotions when they get a little bit disappointed and frustrated that they can have the perfect parent in this situation.

IT reminds me of this thing that you wrote. The difference between getting a ninety one percent on a test and a ninety nine is having a good life.

That is IT, that is IT. And you know, as parents, I certainly fell into this trap myself, the idea that we had to put our needs behind our kids at every turn. And I certainly subscribed to the idea of meaning to be the perfect mother. And then I realized that I was getting burnt out. I would say the thing that really changed my mind about all of this is the research. The number one intervention for any child in distress is to make sure the primary caregiver, most often the mother or the father, that there well being, their mental health is tapped, because they child resilience rest fundamentally on their caregiver resilience, and caregivers resilience rest fundamentally on the depth and support of their relationships.

I want to make sure everybody heard that you are saying that based on the research, if there is a child that is struggling, the most important intervention that works to help the struggling child is to give the caregiver of that child deeper levels of support.

Yes, if you are somebody that listening to us right now and you're like jene email, that sounds great, but I don't have anybody or I don't even know where to start, who the help I can, because everyone that I know is also burnt out. You have a framework for this. So can you lay IT out for everybody listening course?

So this is, uh, a study that was originally started by sonya lusa, one of the leading researchers in the world on resilience. And SHE did a series of studies, including people who were busy mothers and also had a busy professional life. And we wanted to find out if one hour a week for three months, one hour a week with a small group of four to five people in the same sort of kind of world, if they could be sources of support for each other.

And what he found was no mother doubt out, even when the business, you know, of their professional and and home lives were calling for them one hour, the week they met, they talked about their struggles. And at the end of IT, SHE measured their cortisol levels. Those had lowered SHE measured well being the relationships with their kids and relationships with their parents. And what chief down was that you only need one hour of deliberate support a week, one hour. And after the three months intervention, the mother's reported stronger connections with their kids, less stress when I came to work and home life, and lower levels of court is all.

And for those of you going, but I don't know where to. A churches have free day care and they have a lot of support groups. That would be a great place to serve community centers looking in your towns facebook pages for events that are going on.

You're not going to find IT sitting on your couch complaining to yourself about IT. You're gonna have to put yourself out there. You also say it's critical that we tell our kids and our colleagues and our friends our failure stories. What does that mean?

So my daughter was in seventh grade, and SHE considered herself a good writer, and her seventh grade teacher have gave her her paper back and have red Marks all of the place. So he was so discouraged, and I said, Caroline, come to my computer. And I pulled up an early article I had written for the washington post science section.

And IT was edited by a really seasoned, wonderful editor. And IT was a blood death. There were comments. There was, I don't understand this.

Can you add more here? I need another interview. Where is the study where and my daughter was, like, all my god, I can't believe that they let you write for them.

And I said, see, at first I was embarrassed. I told her to need all that work to seal those reMarks. And then I thought about a different way.

I said, all this person is trying to invest in me. They are trying to make me a Better writer. So I now welcome feedback is what I said to my daughter.

I sometimes even say out loud to myself in my office. Well, that's enough for the day, because I, I, I have a tendency to overwork. And so I have to put the breaks on myself, and I want to model that out.

Love to my kids. You have an ice a way of saying, I always like, well, fucked up again. And then like, mom, dollar in the swear jar, like I to be paying for your college tuition with the amount i'm wearing around here because I scrip all the freaking time I could talk you for hours.

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Welcome back, I mell Robins. I'm here with Jenny wallis, who's written the book never enough. SHE is researched the topic of the grand culture and toxic achievement for over four years.

And her research concludes that what we all actually need is to feel like we matter. So lets learn more research back tools that we can use in order to achieve that. What are the top things that parents say or do that we have no idea, is eroding or erasing the value that your kids need to feel. yeah. So the first.

first thing that we do is criticize. And most of us know not to be harsh critics of our kids, right? We we this generation is is very aware of not being overly critical. But really criticism impacts our kids up to five times more than a compliment .

is really yeah.

So what I try to keep in my mind is that to create this kind of healthy environment in my house, I need to keep a ratio in mind. I need to think that for everyone criticism, I need to at least have five positive interactions with my kids. We are wired as parents to look for the negative and to try to help our kids overcome the negative.

But really, what we need to do to have that kind of connection is we need to focus on the positive things that are inherent about them. What is IT about them that's unique. And so when you look at the research on achievement culture or on healthy connections, IT is having that warm relationship with a parent, a minimal criticism and prioritizing affection.

That is what helps us create this connection form. So when I ask the leading researcher, tonio lutha, what one thing I could do tonight in my house to buffer against any achievement pressure in my home, SHE gave me a phrase that i've kept my head, which is, minimize criticism, prioritize affection, SHE said. The kids who were the health est in her studies who went to these competitive schools at home, their parents were not critical of them. They were able to separate the deed from the dower.

So can you define criticism? Because i'm thinking about a situation with her daughter the other day where she's moving back to L A. She's out college. I still consider her a kid because this stuff about mattering is for all of us. And we were talking about the fact that today, while you and I talking, she's on an airplane heading back and he got her nickers in a pinch because he wanted to put all of her shoes in a box and then ship the box.

And I was like, no, that's going to cost like a hundred dollars for crying out loud, you get two checked bags for twenty five bucks, and I can check a bag with your so I criticize, right? Is that what you're talking about? Are you talking about criticizing her for being stupid?

Criticising her? That's exactly right OK. It's separating like you did the deed from the dower. She's not dumb spending a hundred and whatever to send shoes that kind of them when you can spend twenty exactly.

And now on a budget, it's amazing how you don't have champagne taste anymore when you pay for you know, i'm saying, and I do, and that leads right into something else that I think is super important for everyone to hear based on the research. Chores, chores, chores, chores matter. They not only matter because you need the people that you live with to be helping with chores, but chores impact this instinctual desire to matter how. So what chores .

do is not only build a work ethic and you know A A sense that they're competent. More than that, IT shows them that they are an important part of the family, and family is the first introduction to society for a child. To show them how to be a contributing number of the family is one of the most important lessons that we have his parents.

If we want to start developing a healthier society than what we're seeing now. So it's set of saying your kids, you need to set the table. I'm sick and sit in the table you could reframe IT were you here last night? You could reframe IT and say, hi dad, cooking dinner on working on a deadline, who can pitch in and set the table teaching kids how to look at other people's needs as well. Does that make sense?

I love that, and i'd like a few more scripts. So lets role play here because the old male, what i've been doing today is oak, your room looks like shit. Look at that pilot under smell disgusting.

I'm not. You're made. There's no laundry ferry that lives in this house. You've gotta get the laundry done. What would be a more a effective and Better way to say that?

Say, I am really busy this week. I have so many deadlines. Can you do me if favor? I really need these pants cleaned when you do your larger, can you throw a couple of my things into?

Wow, I just got something. Jenny, I hate doing laundry. Ry, and so I resent the fact that it's building up because I do ask him in a very kind way. Hey, bob, could you stop by the grocery storing your way home from practice? Be huge help if you could pick up these three things because I need him to make dinner tonight and he's delightful but we are in the stand off where unlike let's go get your laundry done and I am kind of making fun but i'm not as supportive and effective in the laundry because I don't want to have to do IT I don't but I like what you think helped me with this can you throw a load and to be a really big help?

yeah. I love that yeah and then it's not a power struggle, then is asking for help. It's reaching out for support.

That's true.

That's true. Yeah I would say one of the things that um was an I opener for me was how important IT is to ask our kids for their opinions about things. When we don't ask our kids for their opinions, we tell them your opinion doesn't matter right now.

And instead we can empower them. We can ask them advice. We can, you know, planning a vacation, having them go on and look for the best rate on a hotel room or the best Price for a rental car.

Show them they have an impact, show them they can add value to the family. To matter is to feel valued at our core by family, friends and community, but also being relied on and depended on to add meaningful value back to the family, to the school, to the community. So you know, knowing about matter has changed the conversations I have with my kids.

So there is a phrase by a brand university to skeleton ter sam gregory Elliott that really resonated with me. And he said, what gets in early gets in deep. And when you are growing up and you are told you don't matter, we don't want your opinion, we value your brother more than we value you when you're interrupted, when nobody sees what is interesting and unique and special about you as a human jackets in deep and IT takes a lot of work to get that out.

And I don't know that IT ever leaves this unmet need to matter. But I do know that IT doesn't take much to let people in your life, strangers, the people you love, to let them know they matter what happens in small, everyday interactions. IT doesn't have to be a big grand gesture, these small interactions built.

I feel like there's a number of things that you stop doing, you stop criticizing, you stop ignoring their opinions. Is there anything else that you stopped doing or that you changed after doing this research project?

So a lot of the wise parents that I met had a volunteer Mandate in their family. So you know how some parents say, I don't care what sport you play. You could play soccer, anything you want to play, but you have to stay active.

That's a value in our family. I now have a volunteer Mandate and is for everyone in our family. We devote time every weekend to that, just like some parents would with sports.

I love that. I love that.

I'll tell you another thing i'd stop doing, please. I used to praise my kids. I used to say, um, you're so good at this. You're so good at that while you're strong enough.

I have found in the research that a child's sense of self become stronger, less by being praised, which can feel like pressure, and more by being known for who they uniquely are. So i've gotten what I call a PHD in my kids. I study them just like they're studying me, and I see what makes them tick.

And that used to be something that was hard for me. You know, my peers and and colleagues would talk about their kids strengths and this and that, and I said, I don't know what my kids strange are like. IT doesn't stick out to me.

And so as a family, we did something. It's a free online tool that is called the V A survey, V I A values and action survey. And IT tells you your five or strength things that are inherent about you.

And so as a parent, I now focus on these strength. We are no longer are looking at weaknesses and sort of the zooming and focusing on weaknesses, which are sort Normal for a parent to worry about a child's weakness. We are we all have this negativity bias, and we are, we are programmed by evolution to focus on the negative. But what taking the ba survey did is that IT helped me see the inherent strength of my kids, and I made my kids feel seen unknown by me.

I'm stealing that for me.

yeah. So the research on values was I opening for me? What the research finds is that the environments that we are living in, our homes, our neighborhoods, our workplaces, activate certain values.

So if you have a child that's going to a competitive school, they are saturated by these values that are saying, which that goal get, that G, P, A, make the eighteen look good. Downes Operate like a zero sum game. So the more you spend on those extensive, the less room in your life.

You have to focus on the intranet ones. You just have so much time in the day. So what the research says is that parents need to really focus on the intrinsic values at home to baLance out the values, our environment, the values that tell our kids.

You need to look a certain way. You need to weigh a certain thing. You, your hair needs to look this way.

You need to get all these lives. You need to make them into this college, make IT onto that sports team. So at home, you need to focus on the other things.

The intrinsic values are such a good brother. Thank you so much for always, you know, cleaning the table and taking up the trash without even anybody asking. You just always see when there is a need in the family and you meet IT.

And there are different ways that we can point out these intrinsic values to our kids. One way is to do that via survey that we talked about. Another way is to listen to what adults in our children's lives say about our kids.

So, for example, the teachers in my kids schools write a little narrative along with their grades, and i've stopped focusing on the grade. And instead I focus now on the narrative. And it's always about their strengths.

And I do IT with a high later and a pencil, and I annoy them and like, oh my god. H, I see this two at home. Wow, you always do this with your sister.

I try to baLance out their values. And I here's why. Because when we are overly focused on a extrinsic values, research finds we are more likely to suffer from anxiety, depression and the disorder. So that is .

why .

IT is so important at home. For a parent to focus on the intricate values that act is like a protective force of .

our sub worth. One of the things that Chris and I did that I want you to steal, because we know our kids went to public high schools. We didn't get really big right ups.

So when will we go to the teacher meetings? We would always just say we don't want to talk about the grades in the school. Tell us what kind of a person they are when they're here.

Talk to us about who you see here and how they are with their peers, how they are with you. And it's a way for you to get that intel from another or adult if you're not getting those kind of reports from whatever school. And by the way, I just keep coming back to the fact that all of this is roll into all of us. I just assume most people are walking around with a deficit in feeling as if they matter, that most people feel that they don't.

Most people have a deficit when IT comes to the amount of times they are celebrated, the amount of appreciation that they get, and that if you go through your day, whether it's with your kids or your colleagues or with your friends, your partner, and you really just assume most people have not been told that they've been appreciated in a week or year or ever in their lifetime, people need to be lifted up, especially now. And we all have a small part to play. And I would argue, a responsibility and unlocking at another people.

And you'll be surprised how when you put the focus on calling out what you truly appreciate about other people, the difference they make for simply smiling, for simply being, therefore IT really comes back to tenfold. You know, I always think about that saying, be kind everybody, because you have no idea what they're dealing with. And I think it's safe to assume every person that you meet is dealing with a tunny ship. And the most people have not gone on to therapy. They do not have the tools.

It's one of the reasons why i'm here twice a week because most people IT is a gotten early and a gotten deep and IT doesn't even have to be your family if you are like the only Brown kid in your entire elementary school class that keeps in, if you experience racism and bias that sheeps in, if you struggle with constant poverty, if you're being neglected or abuse physically, emotionally at sea pin and come in in just infinite ways, and your research and the simple things that you're saying actually make a difference in your life and in anybody else's life when you bother to use IT. So Jenny wallace, thank you so much. The book is never enough. Get IT read IT apply IT because IT matters.

Thank you so much. Well, thank you.

everybody. Let's give you up for jane. Thank you for your expertise, your insight and for really going deep on this very real problem that we all face. And I think you gave us incredible tools. And what I find the most empowering is that you and I hold the keys to helping other people feel like they matter in this world.

And when you really think about that, isn't that a beautiful thing? Isn't that a beautiful thing to be able to do for another human being? To tell them and to make them feel that no matter what you do or you don't do, you belong here. I see you, you matter to me, and simply calling somebody by their name, looking them in the eye, putting the phone down, being present, telling them that you appreciate the little heart of a little leaf they put on the top of your coffee. That's enough, that's enough to flip the switch for somebody.

And IT also explains why I always, under conversations the same way, I always end by telling you that in case nobody else tells you, I want you to know that I love you and I mean IT, and I say that because I want you to know that you matter to me. But I think about you on this walk with me, and that's why I say IT. So thank you for spending your time with me.

Thank you for sharing this conversation with other people in your life. Thank you for showing up for yourself. I love you. I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a Better, more meaningful life. Are right of talk to in a couple days.

Are you ready for me, Jesse? Yes, okay. So it's cold to do that.

Yes, okay. Can you turn on the return? Just a little? Oh, some.

Thank you so much. I don't have to do that. okay.

I mean, I don't have a pro in a second. I may try that one more time like that. good.

Okay, great. Oh, I think we should add one more thing. Oh yeah.

Do you want the this know? Okay, great. great. Thank you guys.

Oh, and one more thing I know, this is not a blueberry. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers, right? And what I need to read you.

This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a license therapies, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional, coach, psychotherapist or other qualified. Got IT good. I'll see in the next episode .

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