The Best Advice I Ever Heard: From Motivation to Paper Plates, 10 Genius Hacks for Keeping Yourself and Your Home Organized
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We got something really exciting to talk about in the last episode of the more rob's broadcast. You and I, we're talking about laundry dishes, taking care of yourself and how to find the motivation to get the little things done without beating the ship out of yourself. And we learned how to do that from our extraordinary expert therapies and besin author, casey Davis.

Now, casey blue, you and me away. I mean, if I was wearing wind pants, they would have been blown right off my body, blown away. Honestly, I personally think IT was worth more than a ticket to tailor swiss store. And if you have not heard that conversation, don't you worry, after this one, you can go back one episode, and you can hear casey teacher, how to remove the shame, that guilt, the judgment that you and I put on ourselves about the little things that we need to get done. But I want you to stay with me right now.

why? Because my mission with this part of the conversation with casey is to prove to you that if you didn't get the dishes done, or you didn't get the kids on the bus on time, or if you got dirty dishes piled high in the sink, you're not broken. You're doing just fine.

In fact, you're doing Better than fine. N, K, C, N, I will prove IT to you. Her hacks or genius, her advises a game changer.

In today, we are picking up this life changing conversation with questions from your fellow listeners, and I am just so excited that you get to experience more of casey Davis. So you're ready to jump in. Casey, i'm ready.

So let's just start with that concept. But when IT comes to getting things done, momentum is way more important than motivation. Why is IT so important to forget about motivation and focus on starting the task even though you don't think you can?

So research shows us that momentum build once we start going. So in a lot of ways, we sit around waiting for motivation to do something, when in reality, sometimes motivation proceeds the action, like you do something and then you feel that motivation and the problem with motivation is too full. You know, we talk last time about how if you're looking at your laundry and going I don't want to do that.

I don't understand why it's important. I don't care. I don't deserve clean laundry. That's a motivation problem. But if you're going I wish I could get that laundry done, but I just feel frozen into my seat. That's a task initiation problem, and that's when you really want to focus on building momentum.

Well, what do you want us to do instead?

Well, what of things i'd like to say is that we can use five percent momentum to do five percent of the task, instead of just waiting around for a hundred percent moment of to do everything. And so thinking to yourself, you know, I don't have to do all the laundry, but I can fold one thing. I don't have to do all the dishes, but I can do two dishes I can set a time for for five minutes and clean for five minutes.

That makes perfect sense, but sometimes something that makes sense isn't so easily applied when you feel like shit. And so I want to dig into our listener questions so you can unpack this further, casey, because I keep getting dm and form submitted melrose in's stock com slash cast where people are writing and feeling overwhelmed and they are making themselves wrong for not feeling motivated, they're looking for motivation.

For example, here are two questions from listeners who have recently written in here's the first one. Now i'm having that moment where i'm so overwhelmed I can get to anything. I've been laid off and it's been a couple of weeks.

Zero motivation. We're this one from another listener. After a bad, we break up with my high school sweet heart of several years. I have lost all motivation to clean the house or take care of myself. Casey, what do you hear in .

these questions? I hear a couple of things. There's a difference between motivation and task initiation. So motivation is the awareness and the belief that a thing is worth doing and that you would like to do IT or you would at least like the results of IT.

So if you're looking at your laundry and you're going, what's the point? I don't even deserve clean cloth. That's motivation issues.

Or if you're looking at your launching going I don't care, I don't I don't care about IT. I got literally like IT literally doesn't bother me to wear dirty cloth. That's a motivation issue and it's maybe maybe you could just wear.

I mean, like, who cares? I'm not your judge, right? If you're going, I am so, so frozen.

I can, I can do IT. I'm looking at my launcher going. I should do that.

I've got to do that. I wish that was done. That's not motivation.

What I hear is these people thinking to themselves. I'm not doing anything anymore. And what i'm hearing is they are doing something. They are processing emotionally a significant crisis in their life, and that takes emotional resources, and that takes cognitive.

And you are not going to have enough resources sometimes to deal with that crisis and do your laundry like that is Normal. And human IT would be weird. You don't have an unlimited amount of cognitive resources every day. And if you are using a good portion of those processing pain, caring for a child, processing a break up, being an emotional pain, we experiencing trauma, being terrified about how you're going to pay your bills, you are going to use up a lot of your cognitive, emotional resources, and that is executive functioning tools, and you are going to struggle to do these other things.

One of the things that I love saying to anybody enter myself, when that happens in life and you feel paralyzed, the profoundly overwhelming you're in a breakdown is the pile of laundry and the break down on the paralysis is a sign that you're mentally well yeah.

like that's how you're supposed .

to do IT because your body is processing IT. Of course, you are breaking down, of course, after a major break up or getting laid off or losing somebody that you love, of course you're going to go through a period time where you just don't have the energy. I think the problem becomes when that you everyday life where it's chronic and is not functional, yes, when it's not functional because you realize you would like to get to the stuff but you can't even get to the beginning of the task, you're that depleted yeah. And when that happens, what do you recommend people do?

So that's when we want to look first. We want to go into self compassion immediately. Because we know from studies, shame is arresting, self compassion is motivating.

We see greater psychological functioning with people that can exercise self compassion. So we get in that place where we're feeling froze and we can't get things done. We want to first address, how am I speaking to myself about this? And I saying i'm not doing anything.

What is that true? It's not. I am doing something right now, doing something very important.

I'm listening to my body. I'm processing pain. I am being tender with myself. I am giving myself reasonable expectations. Ans and you still deserve clean cloth. So that's when we want to look at some of these little life hacks. That's when we want to look at good enough is perfect because the options aren't lin bed all day or get up and do all your laundry. What if the option was lay in bed for ten hours today and then get up in laundry, one outfit?

I love what you just said. So I want to take my little yellow highlighter and make sure that you listening, heard exactly what casey said. Because this is an important distinction.

Shame causes paralysis when you start to make yourself wrong and you feel paralyzed, you are likely in shame, self compassion. I'm allowed to be human. I'm doing exactly what I need to, which is processing all this emotion a little bit later.

Maybe I can wash one outfit or I can throw some water on my face. But right now, i'm just gonna give myself the rest that I need, because I deserve to process this. That is a life changing distinction.

And you now know kind of the emotional feel of both. One is paralysis, that shame, and that's the beat down. And we want you to get out of that cycle and to use this monitor.

You talk about a lot. I'm allowed to be human. I allow to be.

I'm allowed to be human. And I we talk a lot about like, nobody has to be perfect. But in our head, we still have categories of acceptable imperfection and unacceptable imperfection.

What are some of the big categories that you see in your work that people say are unacceptable categories .

like being mean to somebody.

what you mean.

like if you were rude or you were mean to someone, or if you blew a huge deadline, if you didn't show up to something that was really important, and now you look absolutely ridiculous in front of your whole profession, like things where you've upset someone as someone's angry with you, or you've let someone down. And we're not saying that that that was, you know let's repeat IT because it's not functionally.

We're not saying that people don't get to have their feelings about whatever you did or sad or or however you showed up. It's just that like I can make like a genuine Bonnie ed mistake and IT can be very wrong of me to have done and I still get to be human humans do very wrong things sometimes and what I want to respond to IT by going, okay, I don't like that. I don't want to do that again.

How can I grow in heals that I can move away from that? Um and I think that that's kind of what IT comes down to. And if you're someone who finds yourself in this state chronically, that's when we want to start thinking about accessibility.

How can I make my home more accessible? How can I make these tasks more accessible? Because there's a difference between, you know, I am nine months pregnant for only three months and it's hard for me to bend over.

And so just kind of a pile up and I just let IT because I have the right priorities and little good. But if you're someone with chronic backend in, that's not really something you can just go ow, i'll pay up and feel Better, right? That we need to think a little long term, which is like maybe a grab what's a grab a grabber? Know what a grabber is? What you've ever had like surgeries and you can't like which down. You like pull the handle and it's a long stick and there's like a little tongue at the end that pick things up for you. Wow.

what i'm getting from you, kc, is that when you get caught in this loop where everything's a moral obligation and everything that you're not doing is evidence that you're a loser and that you can't get yourself together, you get so stuck in making IT a problem that you don't see the obvious solutions that are right in front your face. If you were to simply just give yourself a freaking break.

yes, because if what's wrong with you is that you're fAiling, the only solution is try harder. But if if the issue isn't as a moral failure, then you trying harder on the same kind of broken wheels isn't going to produce anything else. But if you go, this is a morally neutral problem. But I deserve to function.

How can I great creative? How can I fix this? All the sudden, the world opens up, and there's all of these creative possibility that, can I stop folding my clothes? Can I use paper plates for a bit? Can I get a, can I get a grabber? Can I, you know, can I do a toy library for my kids where two thirds of their toy stay in this? They only have some of their toys out, and they can check them in and out as much as they want.

But then they, right, like all the sun, you have so many ideas. What if I had a thirty two gallon trash can on wheels in my kitchen instead of these tiny little trash cans? Because I seem to fill up trash cans twice a day, and I don't seem to take out trash enough to keep up with IT. And so most of us think what the answer is, make yourself, take the trash out, make yourself more motivated, make but what if we focus less on that? And there was just a simple upgrade, the trash can to be bigger.

It's so great. I I was recently thinking about how much we aim criticism at who you are. I gotta be more little bit as something wrong with me. Instead of looking at what, what are you doing and what could I change about what i'm doing like putting a bigger trash cannot wheels in the space, instead of making fifty five trips every day and where things are like, what's what is IT about the environment? What is IT about the way that you're thinking about things?

I want to give you a couple of our listeners sort of chAllenges and role play a little bit with you about what hacks or mindset flips or what you would want them to do as a first step one, listener rights. In the mist of my son's autism diagnosis, every single task felt like I would kill me. I had to talk myself through everything, stepped by step, to avoid the anxiety for months when somebodies in that kind of A A state, I felt I I used, I said this about eighteen months ago, out loud.

I can't handle one more thing. If one more thing breaks down in my life, if one more bad thing happens, I, you're gonna have to check me in to an impatient facility. I can't handle one more thing. SHE was talking herself through coaching, step by step by step. What's another strategy somebody could use?

We often picture a highway as life and these sort of like side roads as like not life. And we're we're off on the side road with a broken car kind of go and i'm pushing the car and pushing the car and I just want to get back to life. This isn't how I ppos IT, I can.

And I think it's more hopeful to envision that like there's not this like mystical place of life for everybody's firing on all cylinders, like life is, in fact getting an autism diagnosis for your child and dining to process through that and just figuring out how we move forward. There is nothing that this person is doing wrong. They are using so much cognitive, emotional energy to process the diagnosis.

I would also just say from a personal perspective that your son's gonna OK, your autistic child can have a very happy for life and so can you and and so you're going to be OK. You're not doing anything wrong. You are not supposed to be able to do more than what you're capable doing now.

And you're right, what can we do to keep things survival, you know, level functional while you get through this? And that's when I would save if this person, first off, I want this person to start using paper plates immediately. Paper plates I want. Paper np ends, I want you to be able to throw everything away right after a meal.

I want you to as much as your budget allows outdoor anything you can, whether that cleaning or laundry or grocery delivery, I want you to um pick one tiny corner of your house that you can make beautiful and you can get a beautiful and under five minutes and that's where you get to go and sit when you just can't look at anything else. I want you to make a hydrant kit for yourself with baby wipes and dry shampoos and something that smells nice. And I want you to go on amazon.

I want you to buy those tooth brushes that are single, use tooth brushes that are pre tasted in individual packages. And I want you to put little hygiene kids all around your house because you're just going to be in the middle of IT and smell yourself and go go gosh and then you you'll never be more than a few steps away from ability to take care of yourself when you can't leave your child and alone in the room. I want you to put a laundry basket and a trash can in every room of your house so that any time you create laundry or trash, you're only a few steps away from being able to be done with IT in one step, not three, four, five steps. And I want you to rest.

I feel like that's what your best friend would do for you, what you just. Did was beautiful. And I think it's also an extraordinary tactical example of your space should serve you and so is the visual of the highway.

And i'm thinking about one of our daughters who is, you know, just processing a breakup. And SHE sounded so good today. This is like twenty four hours and she's like, yeah, it'll be crying probably in an hour because that's my process.

So i'm going to take myself on a walk and i'm not gonna forced myself to do anything today. And as I was listening to unlock, oh, that's exactly right. You don't have to molder through.

You don't have to get on a revenge diet. You don't have to gossip about IT all day. You can just take a step back and allow yourself to be human.

I have another listener question that writes and male personal care. I get completely overwhelmed by taking care of myself. I hate how I look, and I hate how I feel because nothing ever changes.

And judging by the look on case, see his face as I was reading that I can see that casey has got a lot to say to this person. And here's what I want to do. How about we hit the pause button? We hear a word from our sponsors.

They allow us to bring all this few at zero cost when we come back. Casey, I want you to help this person. I want some more of that kc wisdom drop in the knowledge that is gone to help this person, because I know you got IT are everybody stay with us? Oh, i'm so excited to tell you about one of our response or or a friends.

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Welcome back. I melt robbins. And right before the break, I read a listener er's comment about taking care of themselves.

They hate how they look. They don't take care of themselves. And so i've turned to casey Davis, who's a therapist and beston author of hat key pose while drowning.

And kc was about to give this person some advice. And I want to read the comment against, we're on the same page. Now I get completely overwhelmed by taking care of myself. I hate how I look and I hate how I feel because nothing ever changes. K, C, what do you want to say to this person?

So I assume that this person maybe talking about, I hate how I look physically, so I A lot of body conscious ness, things like that. So the first thing that would say there is that if that is somehow related to difficult I and showering and doing things like that, because that happens, that I want to see myself naked in the shower. We're just going to cover the mirrors.

You don't need to look in the mirror to shower. I want to get a smaller pocket mirror so that when you want to put your makeup on, when you want to check, is that when you, anna, look at your hair, you can do that in pieces as you need to, but you don't have to look at yourself all day long. And i'm not saying, oh, that's onna cure the way you feel about yourself, but I am saying that's going to give you some relief today.

You should be able to have a place in your life where you get to exist without constantly pondering how you look, where you can have a first person experience of life, not a third person experience, where you're always sort of going, what do I look like when I do this? What do I look like when I do that? Um then depending on what this is but this is a good one one thing and again i'd have to know more about this person but this is just sort of a ten gentle thing, is that I go into your closet and get rid of the things that you bought because you don't think that your body deserves clean, cute cloth.

The things you bought just because IT covers you, the matter n ship that you bought because you don't think you deserve to wear X, Y, Z. Now get rid of the things that are three times size is too small that you'll never fit into again. But you're going on one day like, let's let's dress your closet.

Because what I found is a lot of times when I was disliking my body, IT was not information I was getting from my body. I was information that I was getting from my clothes. I didn't look right on me.

I didn't fit right on me. I did. Whether close, close, your body is not made to fit close clothes are made to fit your body.

Hello, ia, casey Davis, drop in the knowledge again. Say IT again.

Your body is not meant to fit into clothes. Clothes are meant to fit your body.

You know, I can, even i'm going through menopause, and I know a lot of you see me and you like, get really skinny, but my body has fricken changed. And the things that fit me two years ago don't fit. I was wearing a pair of jeans yesterday that I absolutely love that got cute little like cargo things on side legs.

The waste is so damn tight. And I thought to myself, why am I holding under these? Because i'm waiting for my menopause middle to go down. And yet i'm sitting here in basically a turnout around my waste and IT reminding me all day long that i'm changing and i'm aging and that makes me feel like something's wrong. And I would say half of my closet has closing IT that I actually cannot IT into and IT does when I walk and remind me of where i'm not. And I love the analogy that you gave about the fact that life is not like all these little side roads, and some days you're gna get back to the highway. I'm on the leg of the journey at mile fifty four, and there's a lot of close in this closet that need to be taken out of the trunk of the car that i'm driving and left on the side of the road or in a donation bin because they're not a part of this stretch of the road trip called life.

And I would also tell that person that you don't have to care about yourself in order to begin caring for yourself.

You say that, again.

you do not have to care about yourself in order to begin how to learn to tenderly care for yourself. We so many times we feel as though we don't deserve to be clean and we don't deserve cues. We don't deserve that share.

We don't deserve to get up and do these things. And I think that when we look at that belief system of, I have to wait to like myself before I start treating myself a certain way, IT actually happens backwards. We begin with self compassion and tenderness to care for ourselves.

And slowly but surely, IT helps us to begin to care about ourselves. And I kind of like in this to, you know, if you go to the pound right now and pick up a dog, like you could pick up the radius dog there, there is no dog that's like all this dog deserves X, Y, Z. Now you can go pick up the most behavior prone, yy, dirty, flea invested dog.

And you bring at home. And why do you care for that dog? Because you just decided to, you literally just decided that you're gona care for that dog. You just decided IT was worthy. The dog can have to do anything.

Can we break this into just a simple series of actions? Because so many people around the world look in the mere and see a person that they do not like. In fact, you know, in the research that we did for the high five habit, fifty percent of men and women don't even look at themselves in the mayor.

And for somebody that feels such a low level of self worth that they're unworthy intellectually, they can get that you can start caring for yourself in a kind and loving way before you feel like you care about yourself. But what are wonder? Two actions for someone listening that gets that intellectually but doesn't know how to put that in the physical practice.

sure. So I think one of the things to remember is that self steam is really overrated and it's actually not connected to like Better outcomes and how you feel um that is self compassion that is connected to Better outcomes in your life and that's great because self compassion doesn't require that you like yourself because we can show compassion to people we don't like I do at all time.

I would also say that if you are looking for an action to do, yes, um some of the things that we've talked, I think would work like the hygd kits and just like making things easier for yourself is in itself and active compassion. It's saying I deserve to access this attack but I also want that person to pick one thing, one little like weird bug abo about their morning. And I want you to be in consequent.

L I don't want you to be big. I want to to be something like, I don't like the way that my feet are cold when I walk from my bed to my bathroom, or I don't like when I wake up and I have to be chilly when I take the dog out first thing in the morning. I don't like something really simple, and I want you to pick that one thing, and I want you to start doing IT for yourself at night.

meaning what? So give me an example.

I want you to go before you go to bed. I want you to move a pair of slippers in front your bed, or I want you to move a robe by the back door, or I want you to set your coffee to automatically make coffee. And I don't want you to be dishes I don't wanted to be cleaning.

I don't want you to be. I, I wanted to be something specifically that has no reflection on, oh, you're doing good, right? So, oh, I claimed my kitchen because I deserve IT know something that literally you experience an immediate that does feel good. Just that. One thing .

I love that I absolutely love that. Let's talk a little bit about thinking about rest because we're in this cultural moment where women are feeling all this pressure to be everything work up model for us in our households. Growing up was mom did everything. And at the same time, there's also this incredible grind and hustle. Le culture at work and hybrid work has made IT worse. I have never experienced in the ten years that I ve been coaching people, the amount of burnout, the amount of people who can never catch a break from work or family or chores, th Epace t hat k ids a re b eing p ushed o n t ravel t eams, and like everybody, y's just running this race to nowhere, and we forgotten how important rest is. How should we think about rest so that we don't feel guilty?

We should think of rest as a right and not a reward?

oh. Can you unpack that for us or right?

Not a reward. We we often get the message from childhood that rest and recreation is a reward for productivity, right? You do well. You get something extra.

So you you have to do do your chores, then you can go play, do your homework, then you can go play with O O K. You know, if you don't work, carden class can't go to recess. And there's something wrong with that necessarily.

Like, you know, people want to teach children responsibility and priorities and all that. But sometimes the unintended message is I can't go do the fun thing. I can't go do the rest thing until the productive thing is done.

And that's fine when you're a kid. And your list of things that must be done is finite, right? If you're twelve, unpack your backpack. Yeah unpack your backpack. You know, take out the trash and do the dishes and great, then go and off and do whatever and then you become a thirty five old woman and you're like weight.

But the things that they have to be done is like unpacked the backpacks, then do the dishes, then take the trash out, then feed the cats, then fact in the floors and scribed the baseboards, and then call the doctor. And and it's like, we think we have to get the whole list done before we can rest and relax. And that do we never relax? And when we finally burn out or we get overwhelm and we collapse and more frozen, and we think to ourselves, i'm resting now, but you're not because people who rest in shame work in shame.

People who work in shame rest in shame when you think that all of those tasks are moral obligations and you're not going to be good enough. If you can stay on top of IT, then if you do go and sit down, all you're thinking about are the things you should be doing and you don't actually rest. And so you get up now, you're behind and you're tired and you think I can do this.

And then for a lot of people, they they get so overwhelmed and burnt out that they can't go frozen and can't do anything. And then they go, why? I must be lazy. I must try hard. I gotto do more when it's like, wow, maybe you need to do less.

How do you put that into action? Because as you were talking, I like, hum, that's me. I don't know anybody, at least no women, that are able to truly take a break, rest and not feel guilty about IT.

Yeah so I think that there's been a lot of talk about taking breaks and important that is, and I want to go on a slightly different direction one because a lot of people can't yeah they physically can't yeah um things will fall apart. Things will not be functional if they right. And I think that if you are someone privilege enough to have the time, money, energy, to be able to take breaks, then you've heard that advice.

You can go do that, right? right? So instead of thinking about how i'm gonna a break, i'm gna break, i'm gna break.

And yes, we need breaks. However, let's think instead about how we can get rest by just making things easier for ourselves. So the example that I use a lot is, let's say, you have a mom and she's overwhelmed.

Maybe he is a single mom, she's overwhelmed. And so the traditional sense of a break would be like, what can you get someone to babies at the kids that you can take a few hours a week? right? right? That's fine. That's nice. But but you know what?

That doesn't happen because then you think it's onna, take me time to find somebody and then i'm going to have to IT and then i'm going to owe them the two hours. And so that's a wonderful thing for researchers to recommend. But in a Normal person's life, IT doesn't fucking happen.

yeah. So instead, let's go. How can we make something easier? So what if friday nights at this woman's house, arrest nights, and instead of cooking, SHE orders a pizza, or instead of cooking, SHE makes a giant grazing plate for her kids, and he puts IT out and goes, eat what you want or they are older.

What if he goes to make your own dinner night and I don't care what you make IT the ice cream of the freezer, I don't care, right? So so you you find a way to give yourself a big break on how you're feeding. And then you say friday nights are also movie nights and that means we all make a pilot in the floor.

We turn on the T, V, and I don't care what time you go to bed, and in those few hours, maybe she's not good to go anywhere. Maybe she's not. Maybe you can step away and do a fun project, but at the least he gets to sit there and do nothing, and things are just easier.

There are no additives to clean up SHE use the paper plates SHE doesn't have to do the bedtime riga, a role of who? You know, I don't want to sleep and reading another story. now.

We're just going to sit here and watch T, V, R. That's the night we all sleep in. Mom's Better. That's the night, right?

Like, let's find a way to make friday or sunday afternoons or saturday mornings easier for a period of time where you just kind of a go hands off needs are met. Your kids are gona think it's fun. You're onna give yourself .

a break amazing. I think that's why, I think that's why too. And just hearing you say that my shoulders just stopped and now it's going to a movie night and fend for yourself night at the Robin's household on friday nights. All right.

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Welcome back, I melt Robins and we're going our laundry, dirty dishes, messy houses, taking care of yourself and how do not feel Better guilty when you don't get everything done on your to do list and casey Davis is here to save us from the judgment that we are hurting at ourselves. And one of the things that I read that I love is this great line that he has about paper plates. Casey tells about paper plates.

yeah. So my monta, about paper places, you can't save the rainforest of your depressed. And this came about because I was making a video trying to help somebody in a deep depression about how do they do their dishes.

And I brought out, like, everyone's gonna have that toper wear molding in the back of the refrigerator. And that's what's keeping you from doing anything around your kitchen. And what I want to say to you, just throw the tap away, away. Just throw away. You can save the reinforce if you're depressed. Better that we take some shortcuts now to get you back to being a functional human being where you can actually have the energy and the capacity to contribute to environment causes in a way that matters, right? We know that there is a way to contribute that makes a big impact and that is you know through your politics, through perhaps your donations, perhaps your volunteering um but we're not going to save the earth just by convincing depressed people to hang onto their muli tupper ware and their cardboard boxes.

Fucked and awesome. I just I wish you live next door to me and by the way.

i've never seen an environmental ashamed of diabetic for using single use plastics arranges, and yet I have seen so many people in the name of environmental m shame and mother, or a person in grief, or a person with really bad A D H D or autism for using a single use toothbrush or a paper plate.

You have a concept called fair rest. And for those of you that are living with family or roommate and you feel like you're the one that does everything, what is the concept of fair rest? And how can you use IT so that the kind of division of labor, so to speak, which almost never really works in people's households and in the apartments that you share with roommates, how do you use this concept of fair rest?

So this is a different way of looking at division of labor, because the traditional way of looking at IT is equal labor, so the work should be equal. But when you talk about the work should be equal, let's just say we're talking about a marriage.

What that sets you up for is comparison competition and uh like every man for himself because then it's me having to prove the labor that i'm doing IT at how worthy IT is and then my husband has to prove how valuable his labor is and who's doing more and unless you have the exact same job and even then it's like who's onna compare a corporate attorney to A A author or a state home mom like you can, you know a coal miner to a teacher, to a psychotherapy, to a, you know, a doctor, like there you can. There's all sorts of different ways why people's job or difficult, or any of those things. So IT IT makes I have to look out for me, have to prove the value of my labor, and then fight for, you know, only getting what's gonna there?

No, no, no, back IT up. IT doesn't actually matter whether the the work is equal. IT matters whether the rest is fair.

And to make the rest fair, IT might be that one person's gonna be working more or harder than the other in different seasons. An easy example, let's say, to take that corporate attorney in that state home. Mom, and he's going, eyes work so many hours and she's going, I work non to stop two. And we look at how can we work together to make sure each of us is getting fair rest. And you can look and OK, well, what if that corporate tourney, you even though he works all the time, he's still off the clock .

sometimes and .

he still gets that lunch break. He still has what we call time autonomy to decide what and when to do things. And do you have this state home parent who you know has a more flexible schedule? Maybe he does get to have that rest in the mild day or something, but she's also doing care task, which are cyclical in nature.

They never stopped. They never stopped. She's always on call.

She's always on call, right? And so IT might be that they need to have a conversation about on saturdays. You be the defauts parent.

right?

You be the one that changes the diapers and makes the dinners and you know, listens for the fights and does those things. And on sundays, i'll be the defauts parent. And and on on, you know, when you're not the defauts parent, you get to just exist in your home.

You get to go read a book, you get to do this, you to do now that's not a prescription that's not going to work for everybody. But if you have a dentist and a teacher, let's talk about fair rest. Let's talk about both of us deserve at certain point at night to clock out.

I love that .

all to deserve a functional house, but everyone deserves to clock out of home labor and out out of house labor. IT shouldn't be the case that one person spends most of their time facilitating the life of the other.

wow. And what I liked best about what you said, because you once again flip the paradigm, is that for most of us that are struggling with division of labor in our relationships and households, we're in a deadlock and a fight about the importance of the work that you're doing, justifying that you need time off.

And when I started my career, this this part of my career and my speaking business really took off, IT was at a moment in time where Chris had left the restaurant business and he was what we started calling the first call parent, which meant he was the first person on the list at school that got called when there was something going on, and he was a stayed home dead. And what I noticed was very interesting. As I took on the role of primary and solo breadwinner, I also took on the gender stereotype a feeling like my work was more important.

And here I had been the first called parent for over a decade. And yet, now that i'm making the money and i'm doing all the things and i'm out and i'm traveling and i'm working and i'm bringing home the bit and i'm doing all this stuff, I as a woman, valued my contribution as much more than what my husband was doing by taking care of the kids. And we would have all of these battles about, you know, I need time, but you've been out and I haven't had a break like, but we were in the non stereotypical gender roles in our marriage, and I found that extremely. And lightning, how work out of the house or the type of work that you do makes you .

think you deserve more .

yeah and by making the conversation about rest, because we all believe that and can see that we deserve rest. And in talking about the fact that when you're the first call parents, you're in a never ending cycle, there is no lunch break, there is no time off while somebody's taking a nap because you're probably trying to fold laundry, you'd need rest.

And so by talking about IT in this way, IT actually brings compassion instead of competition into IT. I love that. I love that. I love that.

There's been a lot of talk on my tiktok channel about division of labor, and especially this idea of wealth eye, bring home the bills, you know that they should be taking care of everything else, actually being in homes, hardship actually and then we get in the competition. Yeah, but think of IT this way. There's a big difference between a couple saying, hey, this is how much I work and here are the things that need to get done and how can we divide these so that you and I have the maximum amount of free time um it's not about what do I deserve what like I shouldn't have to take out the trash because I did X, Y, Z. If I take out the trash right now while he's doing bad time, then we'll both get to hang .

out afterwards.

It's not a tit for that. Yeah, it's not. It's OK. We decided that, you know, i'm gna stay home and you're going to do this. And because of the amount you work, i'll do most of this stuff not because, oh, I have to pull my way or you don't have to do this, but because IT just makes the most sense because then we can both have time.

But the other half of that is having an explicit conversation about what is sort of the minimum standard of functionality because everybody deserves to function right and letting go of perfectionism. Like one of the reasons why I think we miss this conversation is that is not just about who's taking out the trash. It's also about when one of you comes home and the trashes and taken out, how do we respond that? Do we go right to accusatory? Do we go right to you should have done IT? Or do we go to Grace? Do we go well, wonder they had a hard day to day.

I am guilty of all of this chron. I have had all of these issues in our marriage like I the one thing trigger ing for Chris is when I stack the cardboard boxes by the garage door and I don't flat them, and when he sees the tower of cardboard boxes, he says, look, I feel like you think i'm made here. And so we've had that conversation.

I got a lot out of this concept, a fair rest and maximizing the amount of free time. And i'm going to bring that into my conversations with Chris because we haven't talked about IT that way. What flipped IT for me, casey, is that I started to see how gross IT was that I was adopting this very masculine traditional value work hare, even though I like, didn't feel that way at all.

It's almost as sive society itself had me absorbed those messages because it's so insidious the way IT can impact you. I I started to realize I can't do what I do and have the family life that I want without him hearing time. Oh yeah, there's not another person I can pay like even that well, what I pay somebody, right? It's not the same because that's they're dead.

And so it's Priceless. And so when I finally absorbed that and I believed IT and felted, we became equal in terms of the contribution. But I ve never had the conversation about what rest you need.

How do we maximize our time together? How can we be in Better partnership? And I think that's a game changer.

complete game, especially a game changer when you have that first called parent. Because in less than person who's not that default parent, they have to be proactive. About inserting themselves into situations in order for that first call parent arrest even if there's still the house, right? You'll often have a dynamic where OK partner a is the default most of the time.

And so when someone cries, do I wait to see if they're gonna do IT and if they don't OK, i'll do IT. If they're busy, i'll do IT I help I do, okay, but it's not just if they're busy you do IT, it's sometimes you have to get up and do IT. So they don't have to they don't have to be busy. That's not the only justification for being able to just sit on your couch for more than five minutes at a time.

It's a right to rest, not a reward. Um I remember when I was struggling profoundness with post part time and I know you had a very significant struggle too I was so sick and so weak and so depressed that I was in bed severely medicated for twelve and IT was a really awful moment in my life and you know was severe enough that they didn't want me to be alone with the baby with.

And I remember during that time that our cousin's, listen, Steve paid to have their cleaning person come to our house once a week. And IT was one of the greatest gifts somebody could have ever given me. And I also had my parents who could stay, but just know, they stayed for a couple weeks.

And then Christian parents came. And then I had a very dear friend, Jenny, sit with me while Chris could go off to work. Because I couldn't take a shower, I couldn't brush my teeth, I couldn't get out of bed, and I needed to be recovering.

And i'll never forget that. And I wondered what thoughts you had about what the person listening can do to help someone that they love through a really tough time, like post part time or depression, or the loss of a love won. Just those moments where something happens, or you find yourself in a stretch of the highway called life, where laundry is overwhelming, brushing your teeth is like scaling motel s. What can someone do to help?

So, you know, taking in to consideration that, you know, you have to kind of look at who that person is to you, right? The way you would show up at someone's front door of your best friend maybe wouldn't want to show up at the front door of someone who you know you work with.

Um but that being said, um one of the things that I have found that almost works for everyone and I know that sounds like I just like the paper plate queen, but like if you take someone in a hard time, a giant stack of paper plates, paper, but like all paper stuff, magical because here's what happens. It's already there. They may not ever go out to do that because we know they care about the environment. But if you already put IT there, they're not making any environment impact by just using IT.

That's true. That's my favorite .

like gift because I don't need to know their dieter restrictions. I don't need to go into their house if they're not comfortable with that. I don't know. Like everyone can get a break from doing dishes and you take all the guilt away by just being like i'm living in on your front watch.

I love that. Casey Davis, you are a treasure. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Oh my god, I told you you would love her. I feel like that conversation was such a gift. And do me a favor if you got anything out of this conversation, pass IT on, pass IT on to everybody that you know because everyone is struggling with this topic and we're not talking about IT.

The fact is at some point in your life or in your best friend's life, or in the life of one of your family members, you're going to go through a hard time. And what's so amazing is you now know how to help yourself and you know how to help someone else through IT. I say at all the time that these low moments and the high moments are temporary, but together we can help one another through them.

We can get rid of the shame and the judgment, and be a little bit kinder to ourselves and one another. And one more thing, I don't give a ship what your house looks like. Her, how high the laundry ry pile is, or how many dirty dishes you have, or whether or not the milk in the fridge or sour or fresh, your plan pace, I love you, and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to stop folding laundry, to stop making yourself wrong and to start being kinder, more compassionate because you'll immediately create a Better life. Already have talked in a few days.

Hey, it's well, here you are in for an absolute OK. 这就是 O K， 啦啦啦 啊， do I have chocolate? My teeth? Jessie? OK, okay.

Oh, shit. Okay, you create that. I did, but I didn't. Okay, I don't know that. Like, I should probably start over.

So I clear my throat.

Oh, and one more thing I know, this is not a blue per. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers right? And what I need to read to you, this podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes.

I'm just your friend. I am not a license therapies, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional. Got IT good. I'll see in the next episode stitcher.

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