The Sunday Story: Media "Failings" In Covering Trump
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Am I jasko? And this is a sunday story. In the fourth and final republican debate on december six, governor Christie addressed the elephant in the room.

He warned americans of what may come if Donald d. Trump gets reelected. President.

let me make IT clear. His contact is unacceptable. He's unfit. And be careful what you're onna get.

If you ever got another Donald trump term, he's let me, you know, I am your retribution. He will only be elisabeth. He only be his own retribution. He doesn't care for the american people. It's Donald trump first.

how to cover trump is a question that haunted the media and trump surprise win in twenty sixteen, a twenty eighteen studies showed that trump received around two billion dollars in free media, got substantially more coverage in his opponents, adding his campaign. Now trump is dominating headlines again as he faces federal and detects and civil lawsuits while campaigning.

at the same time making every executive branch employee by the president. As I said, I will keep men out of women sports, and I will sign a law prohibiting child sexual. Today we will rule out the communist, marx's fascist and the radical left bugs that live like verman within the confines of our country without the largest domestic deportation Operation in american history.

In my other job is host, a weaken edition sunday. I didn't interview recently that really made me think about prop and how we cover him as journalist. I wanted to share IT with you.

I spoke with two people who believe the media is fAiling in the way is reporting on trump and warn these failures put our at risk. Brian class is an associate professor of global politics at university college london and a contributing writer for the atlantic. He's written extensively on democracy and authoritarian Margarett Sullivan is a media, culture and politics columns for the guardian.

Sullivan was formally a media columns at the washington post in a public editor at the new york times. So let's begin with a general assessment of how the press is covering down on trump right now. How would each of you rate the quality of the coverage of prompt his legal proceedings and reelection campaign? And and let's start with Margaret.

Well, I think that it's not great um but it's getting a little bit Better. I am you know the press has not covered trump very well since the very beginning when he first came down the escalator in twenty fifteen um there was this sort of non chance you know both fascination with him and also not really understanding um that he could actually get elected and you know so now it's been many years throughout an entire administration and we have another campaign. I do think that the mainstream press is starting to reflect the consequences of a second trump term a little bit Better, but I don't think they're there yet.

And what about you, brian? Yeah.

I ve gotten pretty pessimistic outlook on this because I think that what's happening with trump is that a lot of the things that he's doing, both in terms of what he's posted in on truth social is social media network and what he's saying at rallies, is not cutting through to the ordinary voter. And that's important because some of the stuff he's saying is the most extreme rhetoric of any presidential candidate in the last four, five, six decades. So i'll give you example this.

There was a rally in october where trump floated the idea of shooting shop lifters on site so anyone who commits a petty crime gets killed it's an extra duce killing that the leading contender for the republic c and nomination floated and right after that he floated the idea of joking about um paul polo c being nearly beaten to death of a hammer and there was no coverage of this for three days in the new york times at which point IT appeared on page fourteen. And I think what the Price is doing is that thinking people know trump s says crazy stuff lots of the time and that's fine. But it's still very important that they see IT because there's another bit of rhetoric he recently uh, posted on treat social where he effectively implied that the former top general of the united states, mark milli, deserved to be executed.

And that is one of the most unbelievable things that a presidential candidate could say, one the most extreme things. IT was not covered in most of the press. And I think that is a real fAiling where we're not understanding the scale of the threat that proposes because it's been baked in and sort of what I call the penalty of crazy that is so routine that is not generating headlines.

What do you think about? Because obviously, I covered the trump administration. And so IT seemed like during that time, like there were different lessons that could be taken from media coverage of the two thousand and sixteen election.

And then some of some people would say a criticism that was often, you know, leveraged against the media was that you're putting too much attention on trap. You're giving him too much of a microphone, you you're giving him a platform. And then there was a the question of this idea that you just bought a Brown that you you're not covering enough. You not covering what he's saying. So I guess how do you baLance that from people who would say he is a candidate if you give him a whole, whole bunch of coverage? Is that actually helping him um uh to spread his message?

What I would say to this is that I think that the criticism in twenty six was applied that they gave him too much coverage in this two billion dollars of free year time, because trump was not the leading candidate of the time. He was low in the polls, and this catapulted him international prominent. So he was a mismatch between novelty again and magnetite, right? He was very exciting.

He was very interesting. He generated a lot of coverage. He wasn't actually the most important candidate the race of the time.

And the press, I think, enabled that to a certain extent. Now he is the most important candidate in the republican party by far. He's very likely to have a significant chance of retaking the White house.

And so the magnitude is there, right? It's important to cover him. And I think the risks of covering him are no longer that people will find out about Donald d trumps via retaliate they have been exposed to previously.

It's that we'll forget how via IT was because when you see trump through the prism of just new york times headlines as opposed to some of his truly dragged truth social post, I mean, really, really danged, he's talking about executing a top general in the united states. People need to be reminded that this is not Normal. This is not you're run of the mild republican.

So I think the risks of amplifying him now that that ship sailed, he's incredibly prominent. He's the most famous person in the world. So i'm less worried about that. I'm more worried about the sort of swing voters who have forgotten that this is a very extreme, very dangerous person who doesn't support democracy, has plotted against IT and has some viewpoints that are significantly out outside of the mainstream of what democratic politics can and .

should be in market.

It's sort of like, well, you you don't want to elevate this um this kind of thing, especially when it's a bunch of lies, which is often is with trump but at the same time, you you want the public to understand what's going on. So you know how do you get that across? And I think IT has a lot to do with how the story is told, what the framing is, how much context you bring to IT.

And now I would just offer as an example and you know not to pick on the associated press because they do a great job in many ways. But you know recently there was uh there was a story about how trump and his allies, we're basically planning to um use the military, if he gets reelected, to quell protest civil protests on the street and to invoke the interaction act on day one in order to do this. This is really outrageous stuff, and the ap headline says trump hints at expanded role for the military within the united states.

A legacy law gives him few guard rails. And it's it's this kind of very quiet presentation of something that's completely outrageous. That's like it's not really getting across to the public the magnitude, the outrageousness of these kinds of ideas.

I think that newsrooms need to be thinking about how to get across the public what is going on here because i'm convinced it's not coming across. It's just sort of like, oh, trumps kind of crazy. He said he's got a free wheeling style, the country's polarized over and out.

Brian, you gave some examples of the things that trust is said in some of the violent retaliation. A another thing that he has talked a lot about is how he wants to get the quote deep state um which is you know basically just government civil servants and that he wants to install loyalists.

He wants to read nize the justice department against political opponents and marked as you just mentioned, um there is reporting that he is talking about the interaction act and using the military to put down protest. I do you think that it's fair for the media, for reporters to call trap a threat to america, ais democracy? And if in doing so, does that make them biased against job?

So I think that the press has an obligation to be objective, not baLanced. And I think that this is a case where I study the breakdown of democracy. There is nobody in my field who thinks the Donald trump is not a threats to democracy.

Every single person does, who studies breakdown, democracy, political science. And it's it's so clear cut, right? I mean, you listed several examples, but it's so obvious what's happening. And you joe biden, there's plenty of reasons to criticize him, but he's a relatively mainstream democrats.

And you know, I think this is where the press, when I often wants to sort of convey baLance to be to be seen as fair, is fAiling to meet the moment the press learned this lesson really effectively. I would say, with climate change, right? You don't both sides climate change, because the science is clear.

So you put on a scientist, and you don't put them next to a climate change denier. When IT comes to american democracy, because is partisan, I think the press ends up chasing shiny objects that are around novelty. Give you two quick examples.

One is, after trump floated the idea of shooting shop lifters that I discussed, I did a google search to looking at news articles. There were more articles, substantially more articles, about joe budd's dog biting the secret service agent. Then they were about trump threatening to shoot shop lifters if he returned to power.

The other example is that there was this massive story when hilary clinton talked about how some trump s supporters were deplorable in a way where he described them in negative language, not saying he would go after them with the power of the state, or I think that just criticize them. When there was an analysis done by media matters for america, they found there was eighteen times more coverage of that remark. Then when trump recently said that his political opponents were vermin, who he would use the power of the presidency to quote, root out, right?

I mean, this is echo in some of the darkest moments in, in, in history and and the the language use is not Normal read rec. I mean, this is not met romney, john, mci, georgia, to be pushed. This is something entirely different.

So the press an obligation to convey the magnitude IT. It's not novel, it's not the shiny object, is not going to generate lots of clicks because IT is a repetitive story, but it's by far the most important story in america. And in my view, in the world right now, because of american democracy breaks down, the reverberations around the world are going to be catastrophic.

And I think the trump is not doing this in the shadows. I mean, we have stories that are just showing there is a plan. And to my mind, the press has an obligation to report on that in in a relentless, very visible ways that make sure that every voter understands the stakes of this election because I think that's really what this is is all about of the stakes of american democracy.

Mark, did you have follow up on?

I do I I think that one of the traps that we fall into and one of the reasons that the coverage is, is weak is that we don't want to be seen as partisan, and that is a very reasonable concern. We we shouldn't be partisan and we're used to covering elections in which you know there's a pretty Normal democrat and a pretty Normal republican. You don't have that now.

So really what we're covering is not a republican versus a democrat, but I mean, assuming that we end up with biden versus trump, which who knows, but we're not covering a republic inversus a democrat or covering A A would be authoritarian versus sort of a Normal, uh, pro democracy candidate. And I think if we reframe our coverage that way, which is a very legitimate thing to do, we get away from that fear of being called partisan. And you know, I think it's fine.

You know, I think journalists need to sort of grow up a little bit and realized that they may be called partisan. And the right wing apparate is very, very good at making the press feel like it's doing something wrong. And I think we just have to be a little braver than that and and get away from that fear.

To what extent is like if you start talking about authoritarian is um some people start around know words like that ism and things like this a if you if you frame IT in a way like the you know the election as like if trump wins, U S. Democracy will fall IT is that detrimental to constructive political dialogue? And is there A A rist that people will kind of just go all you're just exaggerated know they tune IT out because it's so extreme. I mean.

I guess I would say to that um IT is an extreme. We do have an extreme situation and we do have A A frightening in a situation. So that makes sense to to tell you clearly and to not wafer mean one of the ways that the the press kind of gets around that, which I think is not good, is by saying critics say, you know, so there's A A washington post headline about the sort of post election power grab that we are talking about. That said, critics have called the ideas under consideration dangerous and on constitutional. Well you know that seems to sort of really downplay IT and put IT in a way that feels again feels safe and okay and not partisan um to traditional newsrooms and traditional reporting and you know IT just doesn't sort of get IT across brian.

Um what do you think about this idea that framing IT in this way, like that trump winning would cause democracy to die and that IT leaves out a constructive political dialogue because he trump is very much representative of the republican party. There are only two parties in this country. Um you know we're basically a two party county. So how in what way if you come out against trump, does that leave off all of his supporters in all republicans?

I don't think the journalists have an obligation to frame things in ways that are comfortable for voters. I think they have an obligation to frame things in ways that are true. And this is not speculative.

I mean, trump has inspired an insurrection where there was an attempt to not only attack the capital, but a systematic attempt he's being prosecuted for, to overthrow an election that he lost. This is not speculation that happened. He's facing ninety one fell in indictments.

He's telegraphing the idea that he's going to use the formal power, the presidency, to go after his enemies, which he calls a verman and says he will ruled out. The press isn't supposed to cottle us. The press is supposed to tell us what's happening.

And a lot of really bad stuff happens around the world with an authoritarian m gets invoked in the political system. That's the moment in. So you know, if people don't understand that, they're making a vote that's not informed.

And so my view about democracy is that one of the key aspects of democratic systems is informed concern of the voters, and that means that they have to know what's going on. And this is not done in the shadows. It's not speculation.

It's not hyperbole. I mean, this is stuff that happened. It's happening right now. And I have studied the three terms around the world that i've done, field research all over the world where democracy is broken down and IT is scary. I mean, it's really scary because the problem is when IT goes away, you don't get IT back.

IT takes generations to rebuild that can die in one election and I don't think it's the case that you know, trump wins is going to lead to some massive dictatorship on on day one, which is, by the way, what trump said he would be a dictor on day one. But I do think it's going to lead to the breakdown of democracy. And that will happen in a way that erodes the sort of integrity of our institutions.

Rule of law becomes hyper politicize. People no longer have faith in the system. I mean, trump has talked about shutting down press outlets that criticized him.

So know for my perspective, I don't really care about the framing in in terms of what's going to make people comfortable. I care about what's true, what's important. And these things are both true and important. You know, I think the press has to make sure that people, when they go to the polls, understand mistakes of this election.

It's not a Normal election you're listening to. The sunday's story will be right back.

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We're back with the sunday story. We're talking with brian class in Margaret Sullivan about how they think the media should be covering former president Donald trump as he runs again for office. A market you recently rode in appear titled the public doesn't understand the risk of a trump Victory that the media's fault.

I in IT, you argue that if the public were more aware of trumps platforms or a trumps positions on issues like immigration or national security or gender affirming care, that the public might be disinclined to support him. I guess, why do you think that? And do you think that it's possible that maybe a lot of people do understand exactly what a former president trump is offering and they they want that?

I think that most americans at their core want to live in a democracy. I don't think they want to give that up. And so there may be some agreement on issues, which that's fine, but this were in a different realm here because of the very serious kinds of anti democratic things that we're talking about. Granted, they may agree with him on a number of things, the immigration and, you know, all all these kinds of things. But but I don't think that if americans truly understood that they could lose their democracy, that they would support that.

What are some key things that journalists, immediate organizations can do to improve their coverage of trump this election cycle? Look, what are the some of the main things you think need to happen? Brand, i'll start with you first.

Well, I think that they need to sort of show trumping is unvarnished extremism. And I think that does turn off people because I think a lot of people look at some of the ideas he's suggesting and and they are they're not on board of them. And you know certain part of his base is going to love whatever he says.

But a lot about the people uh, when they see trump unfiltered, there's they're actually quite appalled by IT. Sometimes you just need to print what trump is saying to people and and I think that is so, so important. It's also to to describe the unprecedented nature of the selection.

I think that's incredible important because that's where the critique about partisanship just falls by the wayside. I mean, none of the previous republican candidates would have ever fathered supporting the idea of shooting shop lifters. I mean, can you imagine what have been the coverage john mccain in his race with obama had said, oh yes, we're onna.

Execute people who commit petty crimes. IT would have been the biggest story in american politics for months, and then that would have forced team out of the race. So I think this is the kind of stuff we're depicting, the scale of the difference from this election and the stakes of IT. That's the focus, not the horse race, not the polls, not who's up, who's down, but what's important is the stakes of the election of what could happen depending on how the american elector decides in twenty .

twenty four in march.

So I think that newsroom leaders need to be and maybe they're doing this, you know, maybe some of them are doing IT and maybe they're doing IT a little, but I think they need to get together with their politics staff s and their staff s in general and talk about what I wrote my call about. We we the public is not getting uh, the importance of this election. They are not getting what the stakes in the consequences are.

How can we go about um how can we go about changing that? How can we get across the extreme nature of this? And you know IT IT has to do with emphasis. IT has to do with where you put stories, what kind of articles you do, what the headlines are. But we're still sort of stuck in an old way of covering both sides, trying very hard to make sure that no one ever says that we're partisan and IT calls for a rethinking in newsrooms of how to communicate to our readers and viewers and listeners .

that market taliban of the guardian and brian class of the atlantic. Thank you both for joining us.

are welcome for you.

This episode of the sunday story was produced by Andrew greg and Andrew mambo and IT was edited by ed magnet engineers mt. The engineer for this episode was magi lutha. Our team includes leanna symptoms m just in and and our executive producer is iran in a gucci we always love hearing from you.

So feel free to reach out to us at Sunny story at in pr. dot. G, am I jasko up forces back tomorrow and your feed with all the news. You need to start a week. Until then, enjoy the rest of your week.

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