Break the Cycle of Financial Self-Sabotage
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Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney. And we are answering your questions. So give us a call at 888-825-5225.

And I feel like we need to give a little shout out. This weekend is our money and marriage getaway. We have 600 Valentine's weekend. So we have 600 couples coming to Nashville and there's a bunch of them here in our lobby today watching the show, which is so fun. So we are here though, live taking your calls. So give us a call talking about your life, your money, your relationships. And first up we have Brian in Billings, Montana. Hey Brian, welcome to the show. Hey guys. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can we help?

Um, so my soon to be ex-wife and I bought a house, um, a year ago, last February. And then this last October, she decided that she wanted a divorce. Um, she already moved out and I decided to try and keep the house by myself. Um, after we purchased the house, she racked up like $10,000 in credit card debt.

And I've been working really hard to get this down, but it seems like after all the bills that I pay every month, I have like maybe an extra $100 I can throw at it. And it just seems like at this rate, it's going to take forever to pay these credit cards off. And I don't know if it's smart to keep or sell the house at this point. Were the credit cards in your name that she racked up after the divorce? They were. Yes. They were. And was this after the divorce? No, it was, we were still divorced.

Still legally married. Okay. At that point. Yeah. Can you afford to keep his place? So I make like $4,400 a month and the house payment is $2,360. Yeah, dude. You can't breathe, bro. What do you do for a living, Brian? I'm an electrician apprentice. And hopefully next month I'll be able to take my juryman's exam. So I would get a significant pay bump. Yeah. What would that look like? In an ideal world, how much would you be making? $4,400.

uh probably around 38 to 40 an hour okay but per month if you're at 4400 right now what would you expect it to climb to like 6 000 yeah that's that's the hope okay and what's the reality of that actually happening uh i'd say there's probably i don't know 60 chance that i'd be able to make that happen and that's going to happen in the next month or two is that what you're saying

Yeah. Okay. I would wait then because in that case, I mean, if you're making, yeah, I mean, if you're making six grand a month, then that's about a quarter of your take-home pay. I mean, that is the parameters. But you've got to get it. Yeah, I mean, that has to be the case, Brian. And I think you have to emotionally be able to detach yourself that if it doesn't happen the way you think it's going to happen, that you can't afford it. You can't afford this house on $4,400 a month. And I mean, brother, it's pretty tight on six. Yeah.

Yeah, it is. I mean, it's tight right now. Yeah. So why do you want to keep this house? Like, let's pretend you weren't married, making what you make now, and even what you might potentially make. Would you walk in and buy this house? No, but the main thing for keeping it at the moment is that there's not any equity in it, and so we're probably going to have to pay to even sell the house. Yeah, but even if you have to pay 3% or whatever, you're...

I just see most couples that go through a divorce. One person wants the divorce just to happen. And then the rest of their life just keep going on as it was. And it feels like you're bleeding money everywhere. You got this debt here. You got lawyer fees over there. You're going to get court docket fee. You're going to get feed to death. And it's like playing whack-a-mole with all these different bills. The only folks I see be successful in this transition, dude, are folks who understand everything about my life that was is now over.

Right. And really like metaphorically taking your arm and just swiping it across the table and saying, okay, would I buy this house right now? No. Okay. Then I'm going to spend five grand getting out of it. Yeah. Is the main motivation, Brian, to stay in because you feel like you're going to lose money or their kids involved and you're wanting to stay in for them or what, what's the main motivation?

Just the main is just because of the money aspect. I mean, I don't really... I'd call a realtor and get an actual real number in your head. What's making you think that... Well, because you guys just bought it a year ago, like six months ago. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, it's basically... I feel like an updated monthly report on it. And you'll have to pay capital gains because it's been under two years as well. Yeah, there'll be no gain.

Oh, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fair. I would get a realtor, dude. I'd get a realtor and get real numbers. And run some comps too, Brian, because I, yeah, that's right. I think there's probably a lot of emotion wrapped up in this. I have written a check. I wrote a check one time for like $4,600.

to get out of the house. And it's the best, it's one of the best money I've ever spent. Ever, ever, ever. And they say, nobody brings a check to closing. You get one, right? I did, I brought one. And within two months, I had basically paid myself back, if you will. And that started my entire career

process again. Yeah, getting out of debt and just stop being chained to everything. Yeah, and I think too underestimating the weight of feeling like I have to keep up a mortgage payment. It's your home. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, there's an extra weight there that you're carrying because of it. It's not like a car loan that you can sell and kind of figure out. When it

When it's your home, there's like this desperation that sets in and not always making wise decisions. And I realize my math is bad. Yeah, it's 37%. It was 30, but it was 30, it wasn't 45. It's still pretty high. It was like 38, 39%. I'd sell it, dude. So, yeah. Unless they come back and say you're going to lose 60 or 70,000 bucks. How much does this house cost when you bought it? We financed 295. Okay, yeah. You'll probably spend up to 10 or 15 grand to write a check to get out. Yeah.

And that will be painful on top of everything else. How are you doing with the divorce? Yeah. Mess.

Uh, it's, it is what it is, I guess. No, it's not. It's not. That's not a real statement. That's what dudes from Montana say when they're trying to stop from just, from weeping. Yeah. How are you? Uh, you know, I'm not that great. You know, uh, past few months has been pretty, pretty bad. You have little ones as well? We have a 19, you know, we have a 19 month old baby. Oh man. Um, and we're just trying to, uh,

navigate co-parenting at this point but yeah I don't know she just decided after three years that she was done and called it quits I'm sorry man

I'm sorry. Yeah, but there's also something about not being able to hold your baby every night of the week that it's hard to breathe, right? I get that. Yeah, I'm sorry, man. Is it final, Brian, the divorce?

No, it will be final next month. Okay, so terms and everything with the house, all of that is completed? No, I mean, technically we still, we filed the court documents and all that stuff. We just have to go to a final hearing. She was signing the house over to me. Well, maybe you pause that and say I'm going to sell it and y'all are going to split the cost of you getting out of the mortgage.

And you and or your attorney can make a case for, I can't afford this on my current salary, so I'm going to have to sell it. And since she's the one who left, then I'm going to ask her to bear the entire or at least half of the burden of selling this house and getting out of it. Yeah, keeping it, Brian, was probably an emotional knee-jerk reaction for you. But now that stuff is settling and it's not finalized, I mean, it's an option for sure. Because yeah, calling the show, running the numbers, you can't afford it unless...

Unless your income bumps up to eight to nine grand a month. But besides that, it's not worth it. So I would figure out a way out. Everybody who gets divorced, it just feels so common. Yeah. Everybody I talk to underestimates how disruptive and how destructive it is. It just blows up everything. So difficult. Brian, thanks for the call. What does the future hold for business?

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. And we are so excited. We said here in the first segment that we have a lobby full of attendees for our Money and Marriage Getaway this weekend. And we're so excited to announce...

the fall weekend event of Money in Marriage. Running it back. Coming back in 2025. So these are three incredible days to hang out with your spouse here in Nashville. And you'll join myself and John for a long weekend. And we're going to dive into some great content around money and around marriage, relationships, all of it. And we do live Q&As,

We interact a lot. I just feel like there's like this energy about this event that is so fun. It is such a fun weekend. And we're pumped to do it this weekend and pumped that it is coming again this fall. So if you go to ramseysolutions.com slash events, we are so excited. Oh, it's November 6th through 8th. I was trying to find the dates. So November 6th through 8th, it is here in Nashville. Early bird pricing is happening right now.

Tickets start at $749. So get yours before prices go up because they will continue to go up. And we even have some limited VIP tickets with a meet and greets and some other fun stuff. So those are available as well. And by the way, we intentionally keep this at about half the price of what weekend retreats are. And we intentionally, like we could shove another 1500 people in this auditorium. We intentionally undersell it. So we like as a team make

We choose to make less money so we can get people in here that when they leave, it's not just three days of talking to somebody. It's three days of like, you and I are both married. We're trying to figure this thing out too. It's everybody in a room figuring this thing out together. It's my favorite thing that I'm a part of. It's awesome. Yeah, it's so, so fun. So again, excited to announce some new dates, November 6th through the 8th of 2025. And they dropped this right smack in the middle of deer season.

for a whole weekend which is super not cool we did not consult John's hunting schedule how dedicated I am to this thing wow what a selfless servant you are like a public servant just being here with all of us in November thank you John listen my family will starve but marriages will be saved that's right that's all we want that's all we want oh man so so fun all right let's go to Elizabeth in Philadelphia hi Elizabeth welcome to the show

Hi, how are you both? We are doing great. How can we help? Well, thank you for taking my call. So I'll cut to the chase. I'm a licensed realtor. I'm working towards my broker's license while I'm in class now. But I have chosen this past year to stay at home with our son. And I'm feeling some regret about staying home. And I'm struggling with how to be content in that decision. Yeah.

How can I make peace with this choice and still pursue my career goals without feeling like I'm not contributing enough financially? Okay, so that's what I was going to ask. What's the discontentment over? Is it that you're bored at home? Is it that you miss your career, that you feel guilt that you're not bringing in money? Where is this coming from?

I think it's a mix. I've been in the mental health field since I graduated college and always had that job as director role and had a consistent paycheck. Real estate came into my life about nine years ago, and that was always bonus.

So that was always on the side. And when I eventually have a family, I can focus on that. And, you know, and so all we talk about is a side hustle. My husband's in mortgages. It's been a roller coaster last couple of years. But with the hustles, you know, side hustles and so forth, we've saved some money. And, you know, my son's only two. We both agreed I can...

you know, continue to focus on real estate and stay at home. So I guess that's been a challenge for me. I'm always on the go, going to work. And so I just, I'm having a hard time with that. Although it's a very, it's a wonderful thing. I'm still technically working, but I guess that's just not clicking, you know, for me, if that makes sense. No, absolutely. You know, I think it's, I think it's hard when you go from one speed to,

to the other it can it does feel like whiplash um and this and this need to feel like i what felt normal is no longer normal and it's not comfortable because of that and so i do wonder elizabeth because you're you're a high producer you know i can i can hear it in your personality you like productivity you like to do things and so i'm wondering for you um number one is is there is there a level of a hybrid you know i mean i think it's okay to always um

Okay, this isn't what I was thinking it was going to be and make a different decision, right? No one's holding you captive to stay home full time unless you and your husband agree like that's a value of ours and you want to keep that value longer. But I'm like in my head, you can always kind of shuffle around and say, okay, I've been trying this. It's not working. Maybe I go part-time. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing. Stay home completely full.

you know, 80 hours a week or something, that hybrid, or even the routine around the home, how can you make it mirror your productivity so you at least feel like, yeah, I'm still staying at home because that's what I wanted to do, but it's still matching your personality. Does that make sense? It makes, it makes total sense. And believe me, I'll make the,

there's never a moment where I'm sitting. And I wonder if that's an issue though. Is that an issue though? That's where John will come in. My friend Ian Simpkins says, if busyness is your drug, rest will feel like stress. And I'm talking to two moms, so I cannot stand when dudes are like, all right, ladies, here's what you're feeling. I'm not doing that at all, but I want to pose these questions. Um,

You have entered into what I think from the outside looks like the great guilt factory that is modern motherhood. And there was a whole bunch of people that told you, if you drink like a man, earn like a man, like if you buy into that nonsense, by the way, men kill themselves more, they die younger. Like if you buy into that track that you'll quote unquote feel a certain way.

And then there's this other side of it that is, how dare you do that? You've got this kid at home. Moms who outsource childcare are some sort of like lizard person. They're less than. And you thought, okay, I'm going to quit all this. And it's going to quote unquote feel a certain way. And in both situations, you went with you.

And so if you've been running for something for a long time or you run and move as a way to try to outrun ghosts that have been hounding you since you're a little kid, if you're constantly on the move, yeah, sitting at home and facing the fact, can we just all say this parents, parenting can be super boring.

It can be like catastrophically boring. There's only so much cha-cha in getting thrown up on and washing bottom. I mean, it's, it's, it's mundane. Yeah, it's just over and over. It's a complete selflessness versus coming to work and interacting with other adults. You know what I mean? Like it is a complete giving of yourself. Yes. And so, and so I think, yeah, what Rachel said, I think is so important is none of these decisions are forever. Right.

And if you and your husband hold them lightly and say, okay, we're going to try this for six months. And then you be honest about, I'm kind of going bananas. I need to go talk to a therapist. I need a group of friends. By the way, I think every stay at home mom needs to have a gang. This idea that women go home and you're stuck in a house with a crying baby. It's never happened in human history. And we call, we tell moms, y'all are the problem. That's insane, right? So you got to get a gang, all that stuff. Is any of this ring true?

Oh, 100%. Okay. You know, and I think, you know, what has recently stopped, and this is, tell me if you need me to stop, but, you know, I was always contributing to my 401k. Now it's like, well, I can only do that. That's unpaid. My husband does it.

He has his 401k. It's like certain things have stopped, right? But we have financially put that security in so we can hold off on that for a little bit. Hey, Elizabeth. Contributing to a human being is infinitely more valuable than a 401k. You're okay. You're okay. Yeah. Yes. And that doesn't mean getting barfed on isn't any less fun. So much of our worth is...

is... Financial. It's a number. It is poured into that. And it is this value of, here's what I bring in from a dollars and cents perspective. And even that, even you mentioning the 401k, Elizabeth, that is ingrained in you. What are you worth? And we answer that with a number. Yes. And that's insane. And unwinding that, I think is going to be a really important part of this journey for you. Because for so often, again...

I'm going to say women because I'll speak for myself, that are proactive. You're productive. You do things. There is a value. It can be like a drug. You get something out of it. There's a cause and effect and I get to see it. I've got to prove that I have worth. Yeah, and it feels good. And then when all that stops and there's silence there, that's the monster you have to face. There's no silence. There's just, can I have a snack? Can I have a snack? Can I have a snack? I know. So yeah, so give yourself some grace, Elizabeth, for sure. But yeah, it's one of the hardest moments

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. And as we've mentioned, every segment where we're going to, because they're fantastic. We have an incredible crowd here today at Ramsey Solutions. And as you can watch the show live from the lobby on the glass, right next to the lobby, right in front of us as well, is the debt-free stage. And people that stand on the stage do a debt-free scream. And today we have Tommy and Rebecca on the stage. Welcome, you guys.

Hey, how you doing? Doing great. So glad that you're here. All right. Where are y'all in from? California. Corona, California. Well, you can't get out of debt if you're from California. That's true. In Corona, California. That's pretty fun. Okay, you guys. So you're from California. Came in. Are you guys here for the weekend? Yeah, we're doing the money and marriage event. Amazing. So great. Okay, so how much debt did you guys pay off? We paid off $644,000. Oh, wow.

My gosh. Okay, so what does that include? Dang, Gina. We're weird people. Paid off the house. Paid off the house. Yeah, you. Yes, you did. Okay, how much of the 640 was the house or was that it? It was the whole mortgage. So paid off the house completely. Oh my gosh. Okay, how long did that take? Three years. Three years. And what kind of money were you making during that time? Joint 350,000. Okay. Okay.

Oh my gosh, you guys. Okay, but that still doesn't cover, I mean, y'all. We had savings. Okay. And so part of the process was letting go of the savings. I was more of the hoarder because I came from really humble beginnings. And so I felt like having a large safety net made me feel warm and fuzzy in that security blanket. So when Tommy got me into the Financial Peace University, it was kind of like he had to explain that

babe, this is crazy what we're paying in interest on the mortgage. Yeah, for sure. So you were the math nerd. Yeah. Running all the numbers. Yeah, I was big into Ramsey, watching it all the time. But we purchased the house right as we got married three years ago. We were a blended family. We have three daughters between us.

And I was looking at the amortization schedule and I just couldn't believe the amount of money that we were going to end up paying. We bought it on a 30-year, so we were not really on the plan. Yeah.

And once I was realizing that, I started kind of talking to her more and more about it. We need to pay it off. And at first, I probably turned Dave's name into a cuss word in the household. Okay, so how long have you guys been married? Three years. Three years. Okay, when did all this conversation about selling the house start? Right before marriage? I'm sorry, I think you paint it off. I think...

Shortly after we bought the house, I was looking and I started getting anxiety and stressed out about how much money we were going to spend. So I started kind of trying to work my way into it and talking to her about it. Oh, he came in hot. And I was like, what? I was like, you are crazy. What are you talking about? Like, everyone has a mortgage. Like, this is no big deal.

But as we went through Financial Peace University, I was like, oh, this kind of makes sense. Like, okay, all right. I think we could do this. But it was kind of more of getting me on board because it was crazy. I haven't known anyone to pay off their house. So to me, it was crazy. Okay, I want to hear from you. I want to hear about your experience

you have a tension that I think so many Americans have that we don't talk about it. This both survivalist, like you grew up without a whole lot, me too. Like, and so you kind of know this can all go away. And at the same time you get that job and you're kind of successful and you get to have all the stuff that nobody ever, you were never able to have. And so you live in this constant tension of it's all going to go away because

And so maybe you have a deep freezer full of, I don't know, hot dogs or whatever. But then also you're just buying stuff all the time. Tell me about that tension that you lived with. Well, for me, it's, you know, it's a different lifestyle. We just, we do really well and we're very blessed. But,

But at the same time, we still have those same traditional feelings. Like we both wear socks with holes in them, you know, like we don't, we're both the savers. And so it's crazy to have that.

so much money and income and be able to pay off the house when we're still like, you know, the saver type. Yeah. It's almost like your emotions haven't caught up to the math. No. And like, we just... To sit in the reality of what it's really reality. We just paid off the house last month because we knew he booked this money in marriage and we were like, we gotta pay it off and do this death rate screen. And...

And so it hasn't even sunk in yet. Like this is still so fresh for us that it's like, this is crazy. Have you had the checks deposit and you don't have a mortgage to send them to yet? Yeah, no. We had one, yeah. We got to skip one house payment by the time of coming here. So it was like, what? It's the next one that y'all will be weird. And then next month you'll look at each other and be like, I think we're rich.

It's so crazy. Yeah. Okay. So tell me what, because I love that it's been three years. This has been like a short journey for you guys. I mean, for the most part. And so when you went from, okay, is this a good idea? I don't know. It's not that big of a deal. No one pays off their house. Kind of that normal mindset, right? Which is very normal. Tell me about like the emotions between just that, like, okay, I don't know, to actually having it paid off.

Yeah, I think for me, I was always like, oh no, we need the mortgage to have the tax write-off, right? And he's like, what are you talking about? And then to get to this side, it's like,

oh we don't have the mortgage anymore this is i mean the way i would describe it is just mind blown and especially because i don't know anyone else who's paid off the house yeah yeah for us it's totally we're the weirdos like he said i found out there's a whole bunch of people who've paid their house off and it's kind of like the guy at the bar who just says excuse me because he knows he can beat up everybody and he didn't have to like bark and prove it

you'll find out there's a whole bunch of people who have paid it off. They just don't feel like they have to talk about it because they have peace in their life. They haven't approved anybody anymore, right? And then they can go buy socks. They don't have holes in them.

It's fantastic. So what's a thing y'all are going to work towards to buy now? No big purchases. We want to retire early. So we keep, we're just both savers. So like, why not fuel off of that and build towards early retirement? Will you make a commitment to me and Rachel? Yes. Before you leave Nashville? Yes. Y'all here for the money marriage weekend before you leave.

I like to think of Nashville as the sock and underwear capital of America. We all go get some socks. We'll buy socks. I do want to get some cowboy boots, actually. Yes. Go get a nice pair of boots. That's what you guys need. Saturday evening after the event, y'all go downtown. You can get 19 pair of boots for like four bucks or whatever. Get some hats.

And that would be fantastic. Were the girls, were they part of this? How much did you involve the kids? So they were involved in the sense of like saving, like, hey, we need to cut back on eating out. This, you know, that really builds up over time. And they're like, but why? And, but we did keep this,

kind of private for ourselves. Yeah. We wanted to do the journey and when they're old enough, we'll explain it to them and the importance of it, but we didn't really get them too deep involved on it. Yes. No, that's great. That's great. I know, but it's so interesting each family because then those girls, as they grow up, their normal baseline is,

It's like, oh yeah. It's peace. Yeah. You just have a paid for house. That's what you do. You know, like with a normal, your setting is part of changing that family tree. It's not just the financial legacy, but it's this mindset of how you view and see money. So let me make one more quick observation. Both of y'all, this is marriage number two. Yes. Yep.

The fact that you guys came together and did not just throw your feet up on the couch and say, we're just going to give us another whirl. But whatever happened in your past, y'all entered into this new marriage, blending a family, which is hard. A picture of your girls came up, just stunning young girl. I mean, brother, you're in for a mess, my man. Yeah, no, I'm in trouble. But here's the deal. Y'all put some hurdles in your way immediately and y'all overcame them. And so I want y'all to remember back to this point when y'all get sideways with each other, which you will, every marriage does. Yeah.

Y'all can do anything, right? Y'all did it right out of the gate. It's amazing. So proud of you. So great. All right, you guys. We got Tommy and Rebecca from Southern California. They paid off $640,000, which is their house, in three years, making $350,000. All right, you guys.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Count it down. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Amazing.

Time to go sock shopping in America. And that's how it's done. God, we don't get a lot of houses. We've gotten some recently. We get some, yeah. But that's the pinnacle. But they're bucking every trend. California, you can't pay it off. It's impossible. It's this. It takes two people saying, let's just go get this thing done. It's awesome. Three years. Three years. Incredible, incredible. Tommy and Rebecca, you guys are amazing. Absolutely amazing. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Hi, thank you for having me. Absolutely. I am just looking for advice. I'm in a funny situation. Me and my dad were living with my grandmother and she recently passed away. I'm sorry. Thank you. The situation, I guess we were looking to buy the house and I didn't really want to buy it unless it was given to me and that wasn't conversation, but we didn't quite get to it.

And my dad has always been supported by her. And he, since she's passed, is still not really going to work. The reasons why he never really went is because he's an alcoholic. My boyfriend, he wanted to buy the house. And I'm a big fan. I know you're not supposed to do that. So we did start the process of

the mortgage lending. And now my boyfriend doesn't make enough. And then my dad's credit is too bad. So it really would only work if all three of us were in on it. But now that my dad still isn't proving to me that he can go to work, I guess I'm just looking for financial advice what to do here. Please, please, please, please don't do what you're about to do.

Yeah. Please don't do that. You know in your guts that this is not a good idea. Please don't. And I know it will be hard. It'll be uncomfortable and your dad will get mad and you're going to feel guilty. All those things. Please don't do this. Yeah. Because I'm still in debt. My boyfriend is still in debt. Do we just buy a different house? Think of it this way. The bank's job is to lend money. And they looked at your boyfriend and looked at your dad and they said...

situation is so uncertain and unsafe that we can't, we will not do business with you. Please don't. Like, not to mention, Nick, you know the mess and the legal mess of buying a house with a boyfriend and how to untangle all that mess. And I know you're going to be together forever because we're in love. I know, but we wouldn't have a show if that didn't work out all the time. And then you throw a dad with some significant challenges, man. It is just a recipe for you

You being just destroyed financially, your romantic relationship ending up in ash, and then you and your father having no, I mean, you've tangled business with substance abuse, with lifetime of y'all, you two having challenges with grief. I mean, it's just such a wreck. Walk away. Go get an apartment. Please, please, please. How old are you, Emily?

I'm 24. No, please don't. Yeah, there are so many things in this. And in a weird way too, Emily, I feel like sometimes you can call it God, you can call it life, whatever you want. There's just closed doors that happen.

And it's like there's closed doors continuing to happen. You didn't have the conversation with your grandma. The bank isn't allowing, you know, your dad to fully have it. And then also then the boyfriend. And then you're going to have to come into play. I mean, like, there are all of these things that are stopping you. And I think is it your sentimental, you know, the sentimental idea of owning this house from your grandmother? Or is it just I want to own a house? Like, give me some of the thought behind it for you.

Right. So this year was, we just got on the, you know, my boyfriend and I were like, Hey, we're going to pay off our debt. We were going to, you know, get engaged and buy a house this year. But then when this happened, I guess now it just kind of feels like, you know, I know my dad has that credit and it, when he gets this money from once the house is sold, um, there's

three other brothers so he'll probably get like fifty thousand dollars I know if he gets that he's just going to drain it he can't go buy a house so I guess part of it kind of felt like an obligation to what's going to happen to him I know that's not my responsibility and I thought it would be easier to move on until it really came to like I don't know what he is going to do you know this is a really really hard thing for me to say yeah but you can't save your dad in this situation

No, it's not my responsibility. I understand. Well, and I'm glad that, I mean, I know the cool thing these days is just to write off your parents. I don't believe in that. And I believe hanging in there as long as you can outside of like really abusive situations. And the thought of taking care of my parents, like that consumes a lot of my thinking. So that's not a bad thing. This isn't you helping him with bad financial decisions. And this isn't you helping an elderly parent. This is you...

thinking that maybe now he's going to look at you and say, I'm proud of you. He's not going to. Yeah, no, you're right. And you've been looking for that since you were a little bitty girl wondering why is he picking the bottle over me and has nothing to do with you. It has to do with the fact that he's got demons, man. And alcohol for him works right now. And he's going to have to walk through that. Yeah, I understand. And I hate that for you. I hate it for you. I do. I really do, man.

And Emily, too, I would give you a little bit of word of caution with your boyfriend and even just the mixes of finances. Because as you were saying, we were trying to pay off our debt and all this stuff.

Keep everything separate. And if you're working to pay off debt, that's incredible. But be paying off your debts. How much debt do you have? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Me doing mine, Tim doing his. Perfect. Okay, good. Good, good, good. Yes. That's great. The number of people who call the show and one, she's paid off all his debt and then he finds some new hot young thing at the water park or whatever weird. Like, you know what I mean? So, yeah, you pay off yours. Y'all can be each other's cheerleaders. Y'all can high five each other. But yeah, don't pay off his debt yet.

Okay, and so you guys recommend apartment, save to buy the house, then get engaged? No, no, no. Get engaged whenever. Yeah, get engaged today. Yeah, I mean, if you guys are doing it, just do it now. Get engaged. Get married. Okay. Yeah, I would be completely debt-free and have a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and then save at least a 5% for a down payment. Okay, 5% for a down payment. Okay. And so that's probably going to be, what do you make?

What was that? How much money do you make? I make, I think it's like 35 after taxes. How much do you owe in debt? I have one auto loan and it was for my grandma actually to get her boat around. She bought a boat her last summer because she said life is too short and she spent her funeral money. So it's a truck. It's a $14,000 truck. Can you sell it?

I'm thinking about it. Yeah. I would sell it this weekend. Yeah. Have you looked into, if you sold a private seller, what it would come to?

I haven't yet. I think this all kind of just hit me today of like, well, I'm not going to be able to do this. Yeah, for sure, Emily. No, and I'm so glad you called. So I would just go on Kelley Blue Book, type in the information. It'll ask you some questions. Don't do a dealer. Do a private sale. You'll get more that way. And that would be huge. You're free. Then go buy a $5,000 Camry that will run forever. Yes. And then you're off to the races. And can we... Okay. Can we...

I want you to see this. You have a real life picture. Most don't have this. You have a real life picture of what it looks like to not take care of your finances, to burn yourself to the ground trying to prop somebody else up who's not interested in your help, and then asking your granddaughter to buy a car so that you, in your last few months and years, can YOLO. You have a picture of that. I want you to try to consider what it would feel like to not owe anybody any money.

to have your own house, to have a job where you're making more than $35,000. Savings in the bank. You got savings in the bank. You get what I'm saying? Peace. Peace, peace, peace, peace. Let's all for peace. Yeah, Emily, stay on the line. Christian's going to pick up, and we're going to give you Financial Peace University. This is our nine-lesson course, and you can just binge those videos just to kind of get the basics. Make boyfriend watch it. Yeah, yeah. You guys sit down together and watch it. Seriously. That was already the plan. Oh, good, good, good. And we'll give you every dollar premium so that you can start learning

really working this feeling of what John's saying, kind of painting this picture of, yeah, what does this look like to actually have a plan for my money? Not only month to month, but in the next three, four, five, six years. And it's an amazing thing. I mean, it is so possible. And you're 24 years old and you are going to be able to make so many changes, so many changes in this. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm a huge fan. Yeah, no, we're so excited for you. And there's some relational hurdles there too in your life. Yeah, hey, can we make no mistake? This is going to be awful.

Yeah. Your dad is going to make you feel so guilty and he's going to blame you and you can block him and you cannot respond, but this can be hard, but just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not the next right thing. Emily, thanks for the call. Stay away from water parks, right? I'm telling you, those boys go to water parks and they find new, they find new. Oh my gosh. All right. Thanks to all the guys in the booth. Thanks John for a great hour and thank you America. We'll be back.

Hey, what's up guys? It's Jade Warshaw. And look, if there's anybody who knows student loan debt is a problem, it's me. My husband and I had $280,000 of it, but we were able to dig ourselves out and you can too. If your student loan payment in

interest rate are burying you, refinancing could be the solution. Now, I recommend contacting my friends at Laurel Road today. Through their online application, you can get an initial rate quote in less than five minutes. And if you have a more complex situation, you can schedule 30 minutes to talk to an actual human being. Thank goodness. Laurel Road makes it simple. There are no fees involved and you could save $50

over the life of your loan. Remember, you should only refinance if it makes sense in your situation. So if you're looking for a low rate or a shorter term so that you can pay off these student loans fast, talk to my friends at Laurel Road about their competitive interest rates and how you could actually get a lower rate by signing up for auto pay. Listen,

Nobody's coming to save you from student loan debt. If you want them gone, you can't mess around. Go to laurelroad.com slash Ramsey to find out more about student loan refinancing. Again, that's laurelroad.com slash Ramsey. Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bank National Association. All credit products are subject to credit approval.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney. And we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225. So give us a call. Talk about your life, your money, anything and everything. We'll see you next time.

Next up. Dude, I'm so happy right now. This is my favorite weekend of the year. I love it. It's money marriage weekend and people come from all over planet earth to hang out with us in Nashville, Tennessee. And it

If you think we get wheels off like on our individual shows, this particular event is so unhinged. It's the best. It's the best of the best. A lot of Rachel just shaking her head on stage with John. You are the queen of accidental double entendres. Okay. It's like your superpower. It happens sometimes. All right. Let's start us off this hour with... Actually, Ken Coleman is the king.

Always. The king. Number one. Number one in the book for sure. All right, let's go to Courtney in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Courtney, welcome to the show.

Hi, how's it going? I hope you guys are doing good. I just have a question about debt consolidation. So I have a vehicle loan that's like over $23,000, and I'm wanting to sell it to an auto dealership, but the options are either lease or get a rebate and lease a car, which I don't want to do, or pay the rent.

part where I'm underwater. And so I was thinking if I go ahead and sell it and get a loan out for maybe $9,000, I can pay off my credit card and have my car also paid off and have that debt gone because my ultimate goal is to be able to get a house and just get rid of some of that debt. Okay. So the car, you owe $23,000 on it. And have you looked at other options like private sale?

And what you could get? Because usually you can't get as great of a deal through a dealership. Yeah, I haven't looked at private sale. I mean, there's a dealership right now. Like my car, they're offering like around $20,000. Okay. That's pretty good. I'm just concerned about how long it'll take to do a private sale while I'm putting more mileage on the car. Sure. If they're offering you $20,000, then I bet you can get $27,500 for it.

27.54. I just made that number up, but I guarantee you they are low-balling you like swing low sweet chariots. They send these emails out that they have and they're fishing for desperate people. Yeah. If you wait two weeks, you can get this thing sold private sale.

Okay. Okay. So should I just stay away from the debt consolidation? Yeah, I would because it's not going to really fix your problem because how much do you have in credit card debt that you're wanting to use some of this other loan that you're going to take out, right, to pay off the credit card debt? Yeah. And how much is that? How much is the credit card debt? So the credit card is about $4,000. $4,000. Okay. And how much do you make a year? Around $70,000. Around $70,000. Okay, great. Okay.

Okay, honestly, Courtney, if I were you, I mean, I think John's right. I think you could probably break even on this car. If not, maybe make a thousand or so. So I would Kelly Blue Book it and really look into private sales just to sell to an individual. And I think you're going to get more doing that. Again, the dealerships always lowball you because they have to turn around and resell it. And so they have to.

make their margin on it and so instead of all of that you get the profit instead of them but they're also going to turn around and resell it but you you kind of unveiled their plan they're going to make a little bit of money on that resale where they're going to make most of their money is taking somebody who bought a car and trying to trade them into a lease yes that's it too Courtney they're trying to make a lot and you you've heard that when you drive a new car off the lot it instantly loses money you you know that one right

Yeah, it definitely did. It went down like 10. That's right. All a lease is, it's an awesome scam that car companies came up with to get regular consumers just to pay for that depreciation. So they get their car back in two years. Somebody has paid the depreciation and now they can turn on and sell it for what it's worth and they win. Don't play that game. Okay. It's just they are looking for desperate people. Yeah. Courtney, do you have any money saved at all? I

I don't. Like, I just made a big move, honestly. And I had, like, life happen. And then that's kind of what happened. Sure. I had to buy a new car. Yeah, because... A little huge, but, you know. Yeah, and, you know, and I don't think you're in, like, a... Not at all. You're not in a desperate situation. So if I were you, Courtney, I would make it a goal, get an extra job, get a side hustle, and I would make it a goal to save...

five to $6,000. I mean, in the next like four months, like make a big goal, try to make a thousand, 15, 2000 a month extra, right?

And when you do that, you'll have that margin. Go and buy a $5,000 Honda Civic. Sell this car. And maybe you'll break even on it, right? I mean, the worst, it's going to be $23,000. If they're offering you $20,000, $23,000, maybe you'll get another extra $1,000 or two. And I don't even mind if you have to go to a local credit union and take out a loan for $2,500 to get out of it. Because then you only owe $2,500 versus $2,000. Is your credit pretty shot? Yeah.

Well, no, my credit, I think the car is so new on my, I've only had it for a couple of months, but. Yeah, you're not underwater on it. So breaking even, you know, I mean. It's a win. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And then, yeah. And then, Courtney, you'll be able to work and pay off this, pay off the credit card, the $4,000 in three or four months. I mean, your whole life could look different, honestly, in the next eight to nine months. Yeah.

And I don't think, yeah, the debt consolidation loan, I mean, that's just moving around, you know, the interest. And you're not going to be in this long anyway. So for the long game, from the math perspective, it's not going to make that much of a difference. And majority of the time with debt consolidation, not as much in this example, but for a lot of people, they try to shuffle around their debt.

to fix a math problem, we're realizing that so much of this is a behavior problem, not a math problem. So you Courtney going and doing it and, you know, understanding like, oh yeah, I can totally pay this off. I think you'll do it faster in that way than trying to kind of shuffle the debt around. Can I ask you a personal question just between me and you and a couple of million people listening? Sure. Why did you move?

For a job, I got an actual, like almost a $16,000 increase. And I just, everything was great. I had my money saved for my house. Everything was going. And then something popped up on my credit that I didn't know about. I didn't get an apartment. And then I, you know, I just couldn't get the house at that time as well. So I started shoving out money left and right next to me. I know my savings was drained. There you go.

So sometimes like when you have a big transition or two or three, or you mentioned, it's just, things got chaotic real fast. All of a sudden you look up and the smoke clears. You're like, what happened? Right. I'm all super stable. And then this thing happens. The temptation is I want to fix it all right this second. It's like somebody who has like a really just bad gets off the rails with their diet on a weekend. And they think they're going to solve it by just starving themselves Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Yeah.

And what they end up doing is creating such a teeter-totter inside their body that they end up overeating Thursday and Friday, right? So the hardest thing for you is just like you make great money. You're clearly awesome at what you do. And you've had a little bit of chaos in your life. You've transitioned. You've moved. All this stuff. Just do the next right move.

Like get rid of the car. Don't get in bed with any. I said that kind of weird. Don't take out any loans. Don't get in with, don't get in with any consolidation. You'll pay this $4,000 off in no time. You'll have your savings back in no time. And then you'll be back on your feet. Like Rachel said, in nine months, this whole thing is behind you. So just do the next right move.

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I still remember 10 years ago, 23 years old, I was frustrated, anxious, and flat broke. I had followed all the ways that toxic money culture had led me down from well-meaning parents and misguided guidance counselors, and it left me with a pile of debt. But I'm telling you, it doesn't have to stay that way. Over a decade, I went from broke to millionaire, and I break it all down in my new book, Breaking Free from Broke. I'm

I'm going to show you just how toxic this money system is and how you can break free from credit scores and credit cards and student loans and auto loans and investing traps and finally live a life that you're not exhausted by, a life with more margin, more options, and more peace. If you want to check out the book, go to ramsaysolutions.com slash store to get your copy of Breaking Free from Broke. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash store.

Today's question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. WhyRefi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay.

Now, you guys, private student loans are different than federal student loans like Sally Mae. So to learn more about this custom refinancing option and a lump sum payoff option that you could qualify for for after 24 months, go to YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right. Before I read today's question out loud, I need everybody to relax. Relax.

James, this may be the end of the show because this is a you're going to get canceled question because I have strong opinions on this. Today's question comes from Renee in Iowa. Oh, geez. Here we go. My husband and I are on baby step two with about $50,000 left to pay off. We earn around $250,000 a year. Our question is regarding how much we spend for our 13-year-old daughter's travel softball team.

Between club dues, private lessons, weekend travel, food, hotels, and I could go on and on, it's about $1,000 a month. Rachel, $1,000.

We're doing well paying off our debt and I don't want to squash her passion for sports. Then take her out of travel sports because she's one of the top players in the state. She still will be. She's a hardworking kid and doesn't take our support for granted, but I feel like I'm breaking the rules for paying off debt and baby step two. What are your thoughts on this? Oh, this is a, this is, this is the killer question. The knife in the heart question. Our debt is not her fault because,

So I feel like it's unfair to take this from her just to save some money. I'm going to have probably a less harsher take than you will. Go for it. Okay, you make $250,000 a year. You have $50,000 in debt. So, you know, cut everything for six months and...

pay off the debt like in my head and then you're fine and then you pay the softball stuff and you're fine do you know what I mean like it's not like yeah my problem with this has nothing to do with math I know I know but it's the yes you make a quarter million dollars pay off your debts yeah that's so like in my head I'm like

The $1,000 softball thing, yes. Is it slowing down your debt snowball? Sure. But I think there's way other problems out there for making $250,000 and not being able to pay off 50. Like in my head, I'm like... Yeah, you're taking home 18 to 20,000 bucks a month, making a quarter million dollars. And you take five or 7,000 of that a month, pay off 50 grand in six to 10 months, it's over. Yeah, get an extra job or whatever. Like, do you know what I mean? Like you, yeah, to do it. I don't like the...

Oh my gosh, this is the thing. I'm like, I think there's other issues going on besides the softball thing. Yes, I would be shocked. And Renee, I can be wrong. I'd be shocked if there's not a whole bunch of other...

that we quote unquote have to do. Yeah, it's that feeling. Or I'm going to use her words. We're going to squash our kid's passion. It's not her fault, so it's unfair. All this stuff. So here's what I've spent my career. I did travel sports in their first iteration. I was a college athlete for a couple of years. My whole life has been around athletics and I love it.

And I've got to sit. Some of my buddies are collegiate trainers. That's what they do for a living. I also work with some of the top physical fitness folks in the world. So I love this. I love sports. I love all of it. And we are destroying our kids at the altar of...

every weekend, private lessons, club dues, performance, and we say things like, "She's one of the best players in the state." Great. That doesn't mean you spend a thousand bucks a month. If you go ask people who work with professional athletes and even the top collegiate athletes, they're gonna tell you, "Let your kids have time off. Make them play other sports.

go do other fun things. Go camping. Have weekends. Have a childhood. I was going to say, a whole rounded childhood. That's right. And the problem with this is it's so segmented, so early in life too. That's right. And I've got collegiate trainers and collegiate medical staff, friends of mine, that said they see repetitive joint use injuries in 18-year-olds that have always been reserved for geriatric patients. Shoulders, knees, it's madness, right? In this intense specialization and the intense focus. And so, yeah,

I want every parent, like you said, it's not about money. It's not about money. If you make 75,000 bucks, let me put it this way. Everything is on the table when you're trying to get out of debt. It's an emergency for your family. And I do like kids having some skin in the game and moms and dads, you're not robbing from your children. If you're robbing from your children,

If you don't shell out $1,000 a month for soccer or for softball or for whatever the thing is, you're not robbing a childhood. And you know what I hear in this too, Renee? I mean, this was what, five, six sentences? Yeah.

all around this it's guilt it's guilt and i'm like there's a level of this like idolization and her i'm like renee chill like you don't even 13 if she if renee was like yeah i mean it's fun it's fine but she's like no no i have it's this like pressurized momentum for the parents going on to the children yes and here's what here's the ultimate the ultimate problem our kids are being made the center point of the family of the house

Your 13-year-old knows that her life dictates every weekend, every evening of the week, all of the driving, the money. They know that, and kids cannot hold. They're not strong enough to hold the entire weight of a family. That's the parent's job.

teach your kids to be disappointed teach them hey me and your dad got into a whole bunch of debt and so all of us have to sacrifice and they're gonna learn resilience for one year and frustration right and your 13 year olds will say things like i hate you they're 13 right there's a reason we don't let 13 year olds buy guns or beer or vote because they're 13 right and so if you are playing this it's unfair and i don't want to get mad and i don't want to take their passion you're

You won't do any of that stuff. You won't do any of that stuff. You will give your kid a stable, as Dr. Becky Kennedy says, a sturdy presence to anchor into. And that's way more important than shelling out private lessons and traveling hotels and

and all this madness. It is stone madness. And if you talk to any professional coach, they'll tell you, geez, Louise, man, do something else. Go play soccer, go play basketball, go take a karate class, go play guitar, do other things that make you a well-rounded human being. Yes. Well, and I even think, you know, the well-roundedness, I was even hearing some dads talk and they were like, you know, their goal is to go do something outdoors once a month with the

with the kids, with the boys. Right. Because they were like, if you look up, it's a sport, sport, sport, sport, sport. And I don't know why, I don't know if it's like this area or if it's all of America. It's turned into all of America. And here's the thing, I have great sympathy for parents, Rachel, because they're told at four, hey, your kid's pretty fast. You,

Or how good does it feel when someone's like, hey, your kid made this team? And you're like, yeah. It's going to cost $900 because I see something in your kid. And if they get on this team, then next year they can get on this team. By fifth grade, they can get on that team. And then in eighth grade, they can get on this. And you just got put into a rocket ship that is so expensive. I was going to say, and if we just, I would love to do like an investigative reporting on how much these leagues make.

And the league owners made it. It is a money-making machine. It's a printing press. And every parent's like, take my money, take my money, take my money. I mean, seriously, it is wild. I would love to see a parent who is awesome who would be willing to go back and say, okay, here's how much money we spent. And I would love to just give it to you or George or Jade and have y'all run it through. If y'all invested this, just put it in a 529 or put it in a Roth for your kid.

So how much of all of this from your perspective, how much of it is the kid that's like, no, I want it, I want it, I want it versus the parents that's saying, do this, do this, do this?

13 year olds 9 year old 7 year olds they're gonna want Twinkies and Skittles and to stay up late and to play games and have other recognition from other adults Kids are just kids. I heard somebody say recently that I just love I don't hear another person say quote-unquote the kids these days. They haven't changed kids are kids They're always gonna try to push the boundaries. They're always gonna say I want the next shiny thing. That's because they're kids what's changed as adults who are worshipping their children's feelings and

And they don't have their own psychology. They weren't trying to relive their childhood. Everybody's Uncle Rico. If I had just gotten my shot. But I think the bigger thing is the more honest take is parents are so worried about how their kids feel on a minute by minute basis that they end up

with 19 year olds that can't pick up their arms and that have no resilience and no, no psychology for disappointment or frustration. Well, and it's funny too. I'm like, as a parent with three little ones in this, I mean, literally they're like, Oh, well if they don't do this and they're not on travel by fourth or fifth grade, then they're not coming to the middle school team. Then they're not gonna make the high school team. Then they're going to do drugs and they're going to die. Like that's like what it feels like happens. And you're like, Oh my gosh. Right. So yeah. And it's categorically not true periods.

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That's churchillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSConsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here. All right, I'm about to say what everyone already knows, but budgeting is a good thing to do. Now actually starting, well, that's where people freeze up.

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Every dollar keeps budgeting simple and stress-free, just the way you want it. So go download the app for free and get started today. Again, go download EveryDollar today. Welcome back. Again, we have a big weekend here for our Money and Marriage event, and tickets just came on sale for our November event. We just opened up these dates to the public. So November 6th through 8th, you can come

Come out to Nashville with your spouse And come hang out with us The greatest marriage retreat on earth I'm a little bit biased but I think it's the best one that's out there We have so much fun this weekend you guys It's always great conversations Great hanging out time We really pack in an incredible weekend So you can get your tickets for the fall event November 6th through 8th At RamseySolutions.com Up next we have Susie in Phoenix, Arizona Hi Susie, welcome to the show

Hi. Hello, hello. Glad to be with you. Yes, thanks for calling in. How can we help? So I want to know how can I go on in the ways I can trust my husband after he had moved all...

our savings without telling me. I discovered it and he keeps on making financial decisions without telling me or asking me. Where did he take your, where did he take your savings? Um, well, he, um, moved it to another account and, um, that, well, part of it that has higher interest and some of it went into some investments and,

But like, that's not a concern because we kind of talked about it, but it's just not the only, in the last two years, not the only time that he did things and I discovered it. Well, I guess there's two things here. One is you can't, like you're asking yourself to do something, like you're asking yourself to find trust within yourself and

And the person you're trying to trust continues to violate the trust. And so if you want to reestablish trust, then you have to put down on the table, lay it out there, here's what must be true for me to trust you again. And we're going to have to practice and we're going to have to go step by step to reestablish trust. And then the other person has to participate.

Yeah, so, like, relationally, I know what to ask of him. Like, I want, I know, like, first you do this, this, and this, and then we can, like, work together and, you know, I'll...

I can start trusting you after these steps. But financially, I don't know what to ask of him because I thought we had like a joint bank account and it turns out like probably I don't know what a joint bank account is and what should I ask of him to be sure that money doesn't disappear like all of a sudden, that I have some...

Yeah, I mean, you need to have a spreadsheet that has every account on it and what every password for every account is. And you should both be sitting down with an investment professional, smart investor pros, we call them here. And they're walking both of you through your retirement accounts and how much money you have in those accounts.

and you should know how much cash y'all have. I mean, all this stuff you should know. - Susie, what does he say his reasoning is for doing this without telling you? When you find out and you say, oh my gosh, you moved the money, what does he say?

He, he, he couldn't explain it. Actually. He started saying, well, because you, because you, and I'm like, I stopped, like my mind shut off. I stopped even listening. Cause like, what do you mean? Because you, you did it. You didn't like, he's, um,

Well, he's trying to put the guilt on me somehow. Well, the worst thing is that for 15 years, like money wasn't something that we ever had fights or...

Did you ever talk about it in those 15 years? And you saw everything, you had access to everything and you knew where everything was for 15 years. Yeah. And he would always say, we would discuss it or sometimes like, he'd say, I want to do this or I did this. And I'm like, okay. So he always said what's going on. And then he just. Is he in trouble? Is he making, is he making, is he struggling with gambling or is he seeing somebody else? Like, where's this money going? Yeah.

I want to say that it's not going, I don't think he has problems with gambling, but, and he, I don't know actually what's going on because this is like the last two years there's been a series of betrayals. Okay. So here's the thing. Here's what you need to do. Yeah. Go ahead. So there's been other betrayals, Susie, in your marriage. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

On his end or your end? Relationally, what to ask. But then how do I make myself financially safe? Have you caught him having an affair? He was in an emotional affair with somebody. Okay. My guess is if there's missing money or suddenly money's getting moved around all over the place, that if you went and did a forensic deep dive into that, and forensics just means you went line by line to see what stuff's being spent, you're going to find stuff spent on flowers and hotel rooms and things like that.

It's just very rare for things to just be bebopping along for 15 years. Everybody's on the same page and then suddenly all the money gets moved and you don't know where it is. Some of it's getting spread out, all that kind of stuff. If I'm you or if you're my sister, you're my mom, I would tell you pull your credit report

today to find out what loans have been taken out with your social security number. I would freeze my credit. And then I would tell my husband, we're going to have a meeting with every single account, every dollar amount. I want to know what is in all of our retirement accounts. I want to know what's in all of our savings account, what's in our checking account and accounting for where all the cash actually is. And it's just going to be a sheet. And by the way, it's not hard to do. I've got one. My wife has one.

And Rachel, it's pretty common that somebody just instantly gets into a mess. And I see it more and more with online gambling over the last few years. Yes, yes. Well, usually when there's, yes, when there's shuffling around like this and then suddenly there was transparency, now there's not transparency. Yeah.

There's a red flag. Something else is going on. It's the biggest waving on top of a mountain red flag there is. Yeah, yeah. So sorry, Susie. Yeah, and I would say even from a relational standpoint, I don't feel like you guys have probably fully healed from that, obviously, because even the way he's speaking to you or what you told us, he's shifting the blame. The gas lights are burning brightly. Yeah, I mean, seriously, like it is pretty wild. So, yeah, I would be – yeah, I mean –

It is so difficult because if it's not under your name, he could have a secret account that you never know about either. So there is a level of his transparency that he has to come forward as well. But you can pull things in your name. If you know the banks you guys are banking at together, whatever name account or whatever account is in your name, you will have access to. You will be able to see it. And then asking him to do the same, because I'll be curious, as you do your digging on the side and he brings information, if his doesn't line up with what you even found. Right.

Then there's another distrust there. But this is, Susie, usually with these people

types of situations we always say around here and it is true it's at this point it's not it's not a it's not a money thing it's a marriage issue yeah big time because of the marriage issues it's coming out as this money issue and so um yeah i mean you guys have you have a road of healing i mean you really do and if you guys want to well you got a road of fact finding for for the time that's fair yes yeah yeah and you're not getting the full story yeah and and that's

really, really difficult and always scary. I'm like, that's the, it is the betrayal. That's always so difficult. So difficult. So, yeah, I'm sorry, Susie. Thanks for the call. I hope, I hope that helps and I hope it does give you some empowerment and,

to go and to look. And I think for some, I'll say women who do allow the husbands just to basically do majority of everything when it comes to the money, this is one of the issues that we find because you do feel overwhelmed of like, oh my gosh, I don't even know where to start. Like, I don't even know what to look for or what to ask because you were saying that, Susie. I don't even know what to ask from a financial situation. So again, just to repeat and

and help you in this. I mean, it is asking checking accounts. It's asking savings accounts, high yield accounts, money market accounts, investments.

retirement accounts. I mean, any outstanding debts, any debts that are there. Yes. And what John said to pulling your credit report and seeing if any debts have been taken out. But that's, that's kind of the, those are like kind of the categories to walk through to ask him. And then for you to go in this investigative mode. Yeah. And let me flip it on its head to the men out there. You are not helping your wife financially.

have any sort of peace in her life by saying, I've got it. I've got it. Right. At some regular interval, whether it's every month or every quarter, twice a year, once a year, sit down and say, and of course, there's somebody who pushes the button and pays the bills or somebody who moves the money. I get that. Have some sort of, hey, just so we're all on the same page. Here's where everything is. And here's where we are. That brings so much peace to your house. And it keeps these nightmares from happening.

I think we'd all agree that it's a lot harder to run a race if you don't know where the finish line is.

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All right, up next, we have Ashton in Madison, Wisconsin. Hi, Ashton. Welcome to the show. Hello. Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

Okay, so basically, I own a residential painting company here with my longtime childhood friend. We basically are splitting the profits right down the middle at around 50%, despite me running the business full-time year-round while he's in school, and he only works for about three and a half months out of the year. How'd y'all come to that arrangement, man? You're getting hosed on that deal.

Well, I dropped out of school to start the business. And so when we created the partnership, you know, we just made it 50-50.

And then we kind of assumed that it was going to be the same setup as when we worked at a different painting company together. But now, you know, now that we're into it, I'm booking all the work. I paint and run one of the crews year round. I'm expanding the network daily and I'm making most of the gradual improvements to the business. So what's he saying? Have you brought this up to him feeling like it's unfair? How has he responded? Yeah.

Yeah, we've had multiple conversations about it. And the main argument that he uses is that I currently make, or he and I, I guess, both make over six figures. And so why do I need any more money? You know, that's kind of his argument. And he just doesn't back down on it.

Did you guys put in investment up front, equal investment, and that's how you got to the 50-50 partnership? Or did you guys, you guys were just two friends, and you're like, yeah, we'll just open up this together and see what happens. I'd say it's closer to the latter. It really wasn't super expensive to get into the business. And I know that I don't need the extra money to, like, stay alive. You know, I'll be fine. But my contribution to the business... Or past need a long time ago. So it's not that. I mean, yeah. No, no, no. Hey, just...

Bro, this guy is not your friend. Yeah, he's my business partner. I understand that there's got to be a divide there. And he's a bad business partner. You might be right. You got to dissolve the saying. Because I'm just thinking, if one of my buddies came to me and I was in school and we had a business and suddenly he was running the whole thing, it wouldn't even occur to me to respond the way he did. Take 50-50, yeah. Yeah, dude. Okay, so Ashton, what would it look like? Have you guys...

I don't know how it's set up, how you guys formalize the business, but do you buy him out? Do you dissolve the business? Start your own thing? Like, what are you thinking? Because he's obviously long, like long-term, it's not going to work. It's not working. Yeah. He's not who you want to be in business with long-term.

Yeah. The, the, the assumption is that it's going to kind of work itself out because, you know, once he graduates, he's, he's committed to, or verbally committed to coming and working full time for the business, you know, and making up for the fact that I kind of built it from the ground up single handedly. Um, but I don't know if that's going to happen. And you know, I'm, I'm only 20, I turned 21 pretty soon. Um, we're doing about half a million in revenue each year.

So here's the thing, dude. For me to just throw this away. Like as a 21-year-old, you, A, you're dealing with like, I wish I had another word for it because it's got romantic connotations and that's not what I mean. But you're dealing with a breakup, dude. You're dealing with a friend who's not treating you the way you treat him. And I wish this wasn't the case for the rest of your life, but people are going to hurt you for the rest of your life. It's just kind of part of it. And you'll find a group that will ride with you to the end no matter what.

But just hear from me and Rachel, what's happening to you is categorically unfair and he's revealing himself as a person who lacks integrity. Or maybe he's 20 and he's just incredibly immature. But I would not trust him as far as I can see him because he's proven to you he's not a person of character and integrity.

And he wants to take the money that you're earning and take it and say, this is mine just because of some handshake we made. And it's just not accurate. So I wouldn't throw the business away, but I would dissolve the partnership. And I would say, I quit this. I'm going to go open my own business down the street. And I would do exactly what you're doing and make all $300,000 or half a million dollars a year on your own. It's what you're doing anyway, right? Yeah.

Pretty much. I guess I just got to call it what it is. What are you worried about? It's not as much as of a worry. I kind of just have like this hope for the future based on our plans and what we've talked about that we're going to be expanding into other industries. And, you know, we're like,

We're a really good team. Our skills and our attributes complement each other. You're breaking my heart, brother. You're not. This is like somebody talking to somebody who's like, I know she cheats on me, but we're really good together. She's so nice. She's pretty. Her dad takes me hunting. I get that. That relationship's over. Same here, man.

I hate this for you. I mean, because just think about it, Ashton. As the business continues to grow, the problems you're having are going to magnify. So if you are having issues now with you carrying the weight and he doesn't care about that at all,

That's going to magnify. He's going to get married and want to take three months off and you'll just keep doing the job. He'll want to go to his kids games and you'll keep doing the job. And he'll want to start another side business and you'll keep doing the job. So either put in some stipulations for him to continue moving forward.

on what what you want him to do right i mean i think that's fair of like okay we need to work x amount of hours or profit wise i take a percentage of the profits from the percentage of work that i do like or that i book right yeah i mean whatever it looks like but you know structure it where it's fair and and then from there if he can get on board that's fine but let me just i will tell you we work with small businesses all the time through on trail leadership and

And it's not always the case, but I'm saying 98% of the time, we always say the ship that doesn't set that never set sail as a partnership. Like it's the one ship you just don't want to be on as a partnership. Again, small percentage of ones, they work that Ashton, you're going to run into this and versus if you just do it on your own and maybe he's a manager under you or something, you know, works for you. But, but long-term I would not continue down this road because there's been no proof that

of change at all from him him initiating it right yeah yeah i'd say that's and i feel like you're bitter too ashton yeah i mean you're starting to here's the other thing don't resent him because that's on you that's because you didn't set up a boundary and hold to it you just kept going along with it and going along with it and going along with it and now you hate the guy every time you see his phone pop up like his caller id will pop up on your phone you're mad

Like, don't do that to him. Just like, let him go. Let the person who lacks integrity go. And dude, he's a childhood friend. Y'all wanted a business. Y'all had big dreams together. And by the way, can we just say this? For a 20-year-old making half a million dollar top line, you are absolutely crushing it. You must be amazing at what you do. Imagine if you had a team working behind you and beside you that had the same work ethic and drive you did. You'll be painting the entire city, right? Yeah.

Yeah, that's a whole other... You just got to grieve it, dude. You got to grieve it, man. I hate it for you. If there was some deal, Ashton, that said, yeah, I'm going to go to school for three years. Can you run this thing? Take the profits for what you make and I'm going to get back in after I graduate or something, right? I mean, there's common sense ways to approach it, but this doesn't feel like common sense at all the way he's gone about it.

Yeah, I, um, I mean, I, I guess in a, in a perfect world, and I know this is not what you're advising me to do, but just have to say it, um, in a perfect world, we would have a conversation where we do set boundaries. Um, but I've, I've tried to do that before and he kind of just like talks around it and he gets really emotional and I feel like I can't have a real conversation. And then we get done with the conversation and, um,

Nothing changes. That's right. And then, you know, after a week, I'm back to being like, damn, you know, I'm still getting the short end of the stick. And in a perfect world, another thing, Dave Ramsey would send me an email and just say, hey, I just deposited $5 million into your checking account just because I love you. You're handsome. That'd be awesome. And in another perfect... You get what I'm saying? We keep doing this all day long, right? It's just, unfortunately, and you're finding it out...

We don't live in a perfect world. We live in a messed up, sideways, jacked up world. And I want to commend you, dude. You've tried to have the hard conversation. You're doing great business. You had dreams for you and your buddy. And he bailed on you. And reality. Yep. Yeah. Thanks for the call, Ashton. Thanks to all the guys in the booth. Thank you to our wonderful audience today at the Money in Marriage Weekend Getaway. Thank you, John, for being a great co-host. This is The Ramsey Show.

The right questions are the key to unlock personal and professional potential. That means if you're not where you want to be, you are not asking the right questions. I'm Ken Coleman, and this is what my new show, Front Row Seat, is all about. Over my career, I've had the distinct privilege to interview successful people from all walks of life and to coach over 10,000 professionals who wanted more. What sets successful people apart is a never-ending desire to learn and

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