If You Follow the Proven Plan, This Stuff WORKS
02:04:01 Share

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life. Specifically with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by George Campbell. We're Ramsey Personalities, and we are your guides this hour.

George will help you out on the money questions. I'll weigh in. I'll take any work-related questions. You're feeling stuck, but you're in the baby steps. Can I move? Do I start a side hustle?

What do I do to bring in more income? Think of me as just the bigger shovel guy. Shall we say that, George? What does that make me? Chopped liver. No, you're the financial guru. You're the guy. I don't want to be anyone's guru, but I see where you're going with this. All right. The point is, people are going, okay, they're new to the show. Okay, where's Dave? Money and work. Money and work. And that's what we're going to do today. We're going to help you out there. So let's get started. Heather is waiting for us in Oklahoma City. Okay.

Oklahoma, Heather, how can we help? Hi. Okay. So my question is my husband and I are currently on baby step two. And so a little over $700 a month is going towards our debt payment. So once we get done with baby step two, and then also have our fully funded emergency fund, then the next step is doing 15% towards retirement. But 15% towards retirement is like over $800 a month. Okay.

So part of how I got my husband on board with this is telling him like, oh, look, this is an extra $700 we're going to have per month once all of this is paid off. But actually now that's just going to be going towards retirement. So if we can barely afford our debt payment, how are we going to be able to afford to put even more than that towards retirement?

Well, I would take a good hard look at this budget and go, where are these money leaks happening? Because sometimes it's an income problem. And that's where our friend Ken Coleman comes in handy to go, let's increase the income. Because truthfully, 15%, even without debt for some people, it's too tight.

Now, if you've got a dollar for every name and you're still accomplishing all your financial goals, it's okay. It's good to have a zero-based budget where every dollar has an assignment and there's not, you know, a thousand extra dollars of fund money sitting around. But if you're telling me that just paying your normal bills and investing 15% creates zero extra margin for, let's say, saving for college or paying off the house early, that tells me we might have an income problem.

Which one is it for you? Do you think you have some expenses that are also hanging out or is it both?

I don't think it's much expenses. I mean, I don't use your guys' budgeting program, but I do use the YNAB You Need a Budget program. And so I'm very aware of our expenses and all of that, and everything gets a job and is accounted for. It could be an income problem, but I'm not really sure how we can make more money. Like my husband works 50 to 60 hours a week. What's he make doing that? About...

$60,000 a year. What is he doing? He works for a dairy processing plant. Doing what? Just like running the line and loading the trucks and things like that. Okay. So what would you call that? Is that like a manufacturing, I guess, manufacturing milk? Yeah. Okay. And how long has he been doing that? Almost 12 years. Okay. And then tell us about your, what's your salary and what are you doing?

I'm working part-time from home doing data entry. And one of the reasons why, and so the reason I need something flexible like that is because we have five children, five young children, and two of them are special needs. And so like I need to be able to take them to their appointments and things like that. Okay. So, and your husband's working, did you say 50 to 60 hours a week?

Yes. Wow. And so he makes like, I think, $22 an hour and then anything above 40 hours is overtime. And then he's even like Ubering some nights after he gets off work. There's days that like I don't even see him. Oh, okay. Is there room for growth in this field where he can be making $25, $30, $35 an hour in your area, working in maybe management? Yeah.

The management is salary, and he has said he doesn't want to do salary because then they can just have you there all the time. More than 60 hours? He's already there all the time. So if he can be there 60 hours and make 80 or 100, I would rather that. Is he not in some... Yeah, I don't know how much more the managers make. Well, here's my question. If I were sitting with him today, I would say, okay, based on your skill and your experience...

What is transferable out of that industry that he's in or specifically that type of company where he could? I mean, he's got my guess is he's got a lot of skill and a lot of experience that would be transferable to where he could be making seventy five, eighty thousand dollars. What does the path look like to that? Now, that may take some time, but it may not. And I think many times it's very intimidating for somebody to.

In his shoes, he's been doing this for 10 years, and he wonders, am I limited? Is it scary to look out? But it doesn't require him to take a risk to look, to talk. I would at least start looking and start talking to see what's out there because it is possible, I believe, on the surface, Heather, for your husband to be getting a nice boost right now, and that would be a game changer.

Based on what you and George have figured out. We've got to get some more income, but not the kind of income that's back-breaking like Uber. He's already working crazy hours, and there's just not a great return on time with a role like Uber in your situation, in your area. That's my guess. Is that correct? Yeah, I mean, he may be $10 to $20 an hour, maybe. Like $20 is at best. Yeah, that's not worth it. What are you bringing in with your part-time work?

$25 an hour, 15 hours a week. So you're making more money than he is. That's right. On an hourly basis. Yeah, I think that's our room for growth. I think he treats us like a full-time job. I really do. I think I would do less Uber over the next two or three, four weeks.

And I would spend that time connecting with people, coffees, talking to people, going, hey, I'm looking to kind of level up. And I just think he needs to be making well more than $60,000. And I think he can. I think there's a path to that. What's your mortgage payment? $1,200. Okay.

So it's fairly reasonable considering the income, but I still think, you know, with five kids, you're just going to have more expenses and there's going to be less to put away for college. And so that's why the only way here, if you've already cut down all the expenses you can, it doesn't sound like you guys are living super luxurious, frivolous lifestyles here. And so the only other option is we got to make more if we can't spend any less. Yeah. Yeah.

But you guys should be able to do that. With you making $25 an hour, 15 hours a week, plus his $60, there's got to be some room here. So I'm going to take a second look at the budget, do a little budget audit and see, can we do any better? Can we reshop our insurance through Zander? Because we might save $200 a month just like that. So you can do all kinds of things. Are you getting a tax refund every year? Maybe we should increase our tax withholding.

or decrease it depending on the situation in order to have more cash flow every month. But I will tell you, Heather, I mean, I wish I could take your husband on full time. I believe we could get him into a $80,000 with a path to six figures. That's what we've got to be thinking about. Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to give you the Get Clear Career Assessment. Hang on the line. This is a wonderful tool. It's my gift, taking about 15 to 20 minutes max. It's going to spit out a purpose statement, which is essentially a job description.

showing him what he does best, what he loves to do most, and what results motivate him. And I think it's going to show him some things he's not seen before. I'll also give you the book, From Paycheck to Purpose, which is like the guide up the top of the mountain, but the assessment points out both of those products coming your way, early Christmas present. I want to see him dream and then put some steps towards doing what it takes to get a sizable pay raise, which changes your life.

You guys are good people. You're going to win. Hang in there. Don't move. More Ramsey Show and your calls coming up.

These days, it's not if your identity gets stolen, it's when. And the only ID theft protection plan I have ever recommended is from Zander Insurance. It helps real people with real life situations. Like the call we got on the show recently where a woman's abusive ex opened a credit card in her name and racked up over $8,000 in debt. Then the bank sued her even though the charges weren't hers. What a mess. With Zander's help, she was able to get the entire nightmare cleared up and

and now her family is officially debt-free. Listen, Zander's Identity Theft Protection is the best option out there. They have all the cyber tools and monitoring services you need. They cover all types of ID theft, and they even include up to $2 million in stolen funds protection. In the end, though, you need an ally, someone on your side to take over the work and fix the problem.

That's what Zander is all about. Go to Zander.com to learn more or call 800-356-4282. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. We're your guides this hour. We're here to help you win. We're going to give you some hope-filled, practical advice to help you win with your money, your work,

and your relationships. George is our money guru, and I'm going to help you out in the area of work so that you're making more money. George is going to help you keep more money. So we're happy to take any of those calls. We've got a new year coming up, George, so people are thinking about, do I stay, do I go, as it relates to making a career move. So hey, we'll talk to you about any of that stuff. We're going to start it off with Nathan in Sacramento, California. Nathan, how can we help?

Hi. Well, my wife and I, we have had some money discussions recently because I was living check to check. We were living check to check, and I recently lost my job. Oh, no. What happened? Well, it's a company that was going through some changes, and within the technology industry where I've had a lot of experience, there have been a lot of changes lately. So I was one of those changes. Well, you know, listen, you're not alone.

Spotify just announced massive layoffs today, interestingly enough. So that happens in tech companies. They staff up, then they staff down. And I just want to acknowledge something, Nathan, that we know from psychology research that when someone loses a job, either laid off or fired, that it has the same emotional effect of losing a loved one.

So, you know, it's a tough thing, and I want to acknowledge that. And I've been fired, and I've been laid off. So welcome to the club. Head up. You're going to be okay. What kind of work was it specifically in technology? I was the head of a recruiting department. Really? Okay, so more on the HR side of things? Yep. Yeah, we would hire engineers and everyone else you would need for software companies. Okay, so you know this. You know what's going on. You have a good idea of the landscape. Is that true?

Absolutely. I've been doing it for about 15 years. What's great is your skills are very transferable to any company that does HR and recruiting, which is every company. I believe you're going to bounce back quickly, but let's talk about where you're at right now. How are you guys keeping the lights on? Is there other income?

Is there a severance? So I did receive a severance, and that's also why I'm calling. We do have quite a lot of debt, and we are trying to figure out what we should prioritize here over the next couple months. When it comes to the industry, a lot of my colleagues have had changes over the last several months, and my concern is how quickly I can actually get back up on my feet.

And so my wife and I are having a discussion as to whether we would want to save the money or to use that to pay off debt. And we're trying to figure out if we should wait or pay things off now and then in what order we should do that. Well, you know, I'm a big fan of debt payoff, but this is one of those times where we would call this storm mode where you want to just pause and stack up as much cash as possible to weather the storm before we go make any financial moves. And that includes paying off debt.

So the goal right now is let's maintain. Let's keep the lights on, food, utilities, shelter, transportation. That's your A1. If nothing else gets paid, those get paid. And then minimum payments on all of your debt until we can figure this out, figure out what the next step is. Is your wife working outside the home? No, she's not. I've made a commitment to provide for the family, and she's taking care of our son. Okay. How old is the son? He is going to be 12 in a couple weeks here. 12? Yeah.

Yes. Hey, listen, I'm going to jump in real fast. Just as George said, there are times where we kind of deal with the snowball. I think there's times where we have to maybe...

Be flexible with some principles and commitments. And I love the fact that you said, I've made a commitment that my wife worked from home. But you've got a 12-year-old, not a 12-week-old, not a 12-month-old. And maybe for a season, she's working at least part-time. Maybe she's working full-time. I think this is a real discussion. And I think I would not be authentic to what I believe if I didn't jump in and tell you that. I'm just going to leave that there. Not trying to convince you, but I think for a season, maybe we need to consider her going back to work.

Thank you. I appreciate that advice. So what's your plan currently? Let's say you don't land an HR job for the next three months. Are you going to just burn through the severance? That's not the plan for me right now. I am working every day looking for a new opportunity, and I'm also basically starting my own business. So putting up a shingle and reaching out to contacts for either work and or offering my services. Like HR consulting or what?

HR consulting, recruiting consulting. I've also had to run some HR layoffs recently as well. And so I've been on both sides of the table. And unfortunately, there are a lot of reorganizations going. So I can help with that as well. So on top of hitting up your LinkedIn crew, unfortunately, that doesn't pay the bills. So we need to do something that is actually creating an income right now, even if that's work in retail. And that might mean swallowing our pride and going, I'm going to do whatever it takes to make that 20, 25 bucks an hour to keep the lights on this month.

Okay. So what's the severance? How much do you guys have in the bank right now? Yep. So the severance is two months worth of pay. Um, and it's going to be gone in two months. So, um, and you have no savings? The savings is very minimal. Um, I have my 401k, but I don't want to really cash that one out right now. Okay. So yeah, give it, give us a number. How much money are you going to have in the bank?

We have $30,000 right now. And that will only get you by for two months? $15,000 are monthly expenses. How? We have a lot of debt, and I was making a lot of money. You guys have a car you can sell? We do, actually. It's on our list. I think that needs to get sold today. I mean, how much money were you making? I was making $190,000 a year. And what's the total debt load?

We have a mortgage that is at $480,000 with the second at $80,000. And then we have about $60,000 in credit cards and about $60,000 in loans. And the car loan, $60,000? The car loan is separate. That is at $30,000. What's the other $60,000 in loans you said after the credit cards? Those were debt consolidation loans, so credit card consolidation loans. And then we...

We're dumb and ran out of cards again. Man, you guys make way too much money to be this broke. This is a sad wake-up call. I wish you didn't have to land this way with the layoff, but I hope this is your I've had it moment where you guys start looking at these numbers and you're scared. And that's a good thing because it means you're never going to be in this position again.

And that means doing hard things like selling the car because we were living la vida loca, living this fake lifestyle that we couldn't keep up with. And life happened. And we had a stay at home spouse. And that adds, you know, the consequence of that is it adds risk. If you lose one income, you lose all the income.

So I think we have to make some more sacrificial changes, and we're going to start with selling the cars and getting beaters to get by. And I'm now going to say I think the wife needs to work full-time. The 12-year-old can let himself in after school. Is the 12-year-old in school right now full-time? He is. He is, and he can let himself in. Yes. Hey, man, let me tell you something. I hope you're receiving this with the right spirit, but it's time for her to work. I mean, it doesn't have to be forever.

But that is a game changer. Maybe three months from now, you're back to making $200,000. But even then, you guys have a giant pile of debt to clean up. So maybe she works until we're totally debt-free. 100%. Because living in that area, you know, the Bay Area is where you're at? Sacramento? Where are you at? Pretty close. Pretty close. I can drive to the Bay Area today. So life ain't getting any cheaper out there. And so this is a scary moment where you go, are we going to have to move?

If we can't sustain this lifestyle out here, you know, that's a tough spot to be in. So I would just have some hard conversations with your wife and say, honey, you know, I wanted you to be able to stay home full time forever. Right now, here's the sacrifices we're going to have to make. We have to sell the cars. You're going to go back to work for a little bit. And I'm going to work my hardest to get a land that job again to where we can get some stability in place. Yeah. Okay. You got it, Nathan. There are your marching orders. I mean, this is doable.

I mean, it's not impossible, but I can't stress this enough. I was on Wharton Business Radio this morning. The guy asked me, the host said, what would you say to people who've been laid off? And the first thing I'd say is, is that you got to heal. You got to have a day or two of just kind of cry it out, cry it out, hang around friends and family, get all the support necessary. But you're getting back to some type of work immediately.

Don't sit. The best thing to kind of recovering from this emotionally is getting busy, keeping some income coming in because the worst thing that can happen after getting laid off or fired is to feel the financial pinch. That doesn't

That makes everything else worse, George. Yeah. Well, you know what, Ken? This is going to be for our friend Nathan. It's going to be a comma, not a coma. And he has to remember that. Don't get stuck. You're going to move on, man. You'll get there. Get busy. Keep bringing money in. Do whatever it takes. And then it's going to get better. All right. Good stuff. Thanks for the call, Nathan. We're cheering for you here. He's George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz here to tell you about a faith-based alternative to health insurance that can make healthcare more affordable, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM allows members to share each other's healthcare costs and it's as easy as one, two, three.

Step one, choose the healthcare provider you want. Step two, submit your eligible bills. And step three, get reimbursed. CHM members take care of your eligible medical bills. With no network and the freedom to choose your healthcare provider, CHM is the best option for Christians who want to take care of their families and help other believers. Find out more at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. We're here for you this hour. The phone number is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. George, I was with Rachel on Friday, and at one point, coming back from the break, I mentioned that it was a toll-free number, and she made fun of me, and now I'm getting hit on Instagram.

You might as well have mentioned, hey, go to your nearest pay phone and give us a ring. Yeah, some guy on Instagram was like, oh, yeah, from the pay phone, the toll-free number from your home phone, all of the things. So I've got to work on the old man references here. I like that you remind us of what a different time we live in based on how you grew up. I think that's what I'm unwittingly doing. That's the sad part.

but we're still helping people no matter if it's toll free or not. To your credit, there is no toll. It's a free show, which is amazing. I know. I'm just trying to keep the young kids attached. Let's go to Hayden who's in Lansing, Michigan. Hayden, how can we help? Hey guys, um,

First off, I wish you understood the impact you've had on my house in the last 12 months. You have flipped the place upside down, and that's the reason for my call. My wife and I have been married for two years now, brought a little baby girl in in the spring, and before that, we have kept our money separate. She had her account. I had mine.

She paid these bills, I paid these. Well, in the last 90 days, we've knocked our heads together enough that we're ready to merge everything together and we're just looking for some guidance. We're in baby step two. Over the last six months, we've cleared out probably 40 grand. We got another 30 or 40 to go before we start getting crazy with the house. We were your typical middle class Americans. We had 0% this and 0% that and credit card here and that's

that's all stopped. We did some plastic surgery and, uh, we're on a better path because of you guys. I walked away from a 10 year career. Um, thanks to you, John, and not entirely because of you, you gave me the courage to do it, but, um, it's been a whirlwind of 12 months and we want to just keep doing the right thing and merge our finances the right way. Cool. Well, I'm glad you called. Sounds like you're ready for some more life change. You guys have already been at it, but you're saying we're ready to fully combine. What does that mean?

So she has a checking the savings. I have a checking the savings. She pays some of the smaller bills. She's

She's a stay-at-home mom with a side business that keeps her busy. I'm a full-time sales guy making anywhere from $100 to $150 a year. So I pay the mortgage, you know, the big stuff. She kind of takes the little stuff, but I hate that. I don't want to do that anymore. Is it as simple as just open a savings and a checking, put both our names on it, and push everything in one bucket? You know, should she have her account for play money? I have mine for play money.

It's this simple. You can actually make your account into a joint account. So you don't even have to go make a new account. You just go to the bank and say, hello, we'd like to make this a joint account instead of just mine. And then she can shut her accounts down and you guys just use one checking and one savings.

And that's it. That's exactly what we did last week. The only hang up there, we have her car that we're both paying on very quickly to make it go away. That's on her account. So we can't kill hers yet because we got to pay that car off because we don't want to refi it. We've got a great interest rate at what it is. Where does it get paid from?

She takes her side business money, and that is her sole bill today. I have taken over pretty much everything. I'm confused. Can't you just pay that car loan from this other bank account starting tomorrow? We could, yes, but you can't close the account. I'm not asking you to close the loan account, but you're saying it's tied to that bank account? It is tied, yeah. I guess, like, well... I don't know. I think you can just pay that loan from this different checking account. It's not tied to the checking account.

I think you're correct. So I don't think there's any excuses left. I mean, you guys are done living like roommates. Combine it all. And you asked about what about his money and her money. Just in your budget, there's a line item for Hayden's fund money. And that gets spent from the same checking account. And when your money runs out, it's out. And so if anything, it's going to create more accountability as you guys get on that budget together. It sounds like you haven't been making one budget using every dollar, for example. Yeah.

We just downloaded EveryDollar. We just dug into it. We laid everything out, what comes out every month, when it does. So we're probably halfway through a budget, I would say. Okay, I'm going to hook you up with EveryDollar Premium that will actually connect to your bank account, which is going to make this whole process a whole lot easier. Would you use it if I gifted it to you?

Without a doubt. Okay, wonderful. Hang on the line. We're going to gift you one year of every dollar. You guys are going to get together on a weekly basis right now and just take a look at the budget. And before the month begins, you're going to make a new budget and go, what's coming up this month? And that level of communication and alignment is going to take out all the money fights, and it's going to take away all the stress of button heads,

And whose money is this? And it's not her car loan. You have a car loan, my friend. And so the sooner you guys get aligned on that, the sooner you're going to make progress even more than you have.

recently. So I'm proud of you guys. That's a big step, Ken. It's a big paradigm shift to make for couples out there who are so used to, well, this is my money. And well, that's her money. Cause she stays at, she's got her little business. Let her have that money. I don't subscribe to that. I think anybody out there that's been married for any amount of time knows that money can cause a lot of stress issues. You've probably seen the data about how it's probably the number one issue of stress in a marriage. And, and, and, and one of the things that when we're separated on money, uh,

that being in the same account and then on the same page does is remove all that. There is unity. And that's a huge deal for your marriage, not just for your money. So really important step. Love taking a call like that where they say, we've just made massive amount of changes in 12 months, which is the best way to do something like this. Yeah.

you know, when you've got to take on massive change, whether it be in your physical life, your relationship life, your money life, your work life, just get after it. Go ahead and make the change and go. So I love that. All right, let's go to Kansas City where Troy joins us. Troy, how can we help? Hey, guys. Appreciate you taking my call. Sure. Just wanted to...

Ask you quickly. So I'm 33, my wife's 32. We are going to be able to pay off our house here in the next probably month and a half to two months. Awesome. Just depending on what our expenses are. But really what we're looking for is the next steps, right? Neither of us are very comfortable or experienced in investing, and we're looking for

what would be a good strategy for us being the age we are, you know, kind of what we should be looking into and what we should be putting our money into. Fantastic. You guys are crushing it, man. You're going to be in your early 30s without a house payment, which means baby step seven, which means instead of investing 15%, you can increase that. And you're going, hey, what do we do now as far as investing? Sure. Yep, exactly. Cool. What's your current retirement options through your employers?

Yeah, so me currently, I get a 4% match. So I've had that maxed out since I've been working, you know, just the 4%. But, you know, I haven't personally been doing the 15%. My wife is closer to that. She also gets the 4% match, but I can't remember what. She also gets like an 8% match for some sort of stock ownership, I believe. Okay.

So let's get some clarity on what all the options are, and then you're going to filter it through this really simple strategy. Match beats Roth beats traditional. So if you both have a match, let's invest at least up to the match. If you guys have Roth options, like a Roth IRA, let's max those out for the year. Beyond that, you can go back to the traditional side. Now, if you max out all of that, including an HSA, if you guys have a health savings account, which you can invest through, then you might want to look into a taxable brokerage account outside of retirement. Okay. Yeah.

Did any of that click? Are you like, what the heck did he just say? Yeah, no, no, I do. I do believe. Well, my wife does have Roth currently through her work as an option. So I know that is an option for her. I don't. So I've been kicking around the idea of getting one, you know, outside of my employment. What kind of account do you have through your employer? I just have the 401k. A traditional 401k. They don't have a Roth option for that? Correct.

Okay. Okay. So for you, you might go max out the Roth IRA and then go back to the traditional 401k and max that out. But that would be my goal for you guys is can we max out all of our retirement options that are tax advantage for the year? That's a really great goal to have. Because if you both do, what's your household income? Yeah. So I make, just depending on the bonus for the year, I make around $120,000 to $150,000 a year. And my wife is right around $100,000 a year. Oh my gosh. You guys are amazing.

So you're making $250,000, about to have no house payment. You absolutely, both of you should be maxing out those 401ks, maxing out an IRA. If your income is above the threshold, you can look into something called a backdoor Roth IRA. And your next step, because I can tell you need some homework here, you need someone to walk you through this, give you some perspective on the stock market, squelch some of the fears, come

contact a SmartVestor Pro. You can connect with one at ramsaysolutions.com. And through our SmartVestor program, we've got investing pros out there. They're not connected to our team, but we trust them to help you take the right next step to build wealth, and they're going to take good care of you. Yeah, I love it. You guys have such a bright future. Love it. Good stuff, George. So fun when you kind of see the light bulb for people. Yeah. It's really fun. All right, don't move. More of your calls coming up. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Taking your money questions, of course, and I'm in today, so we'll be taking any work-related questions as well. And hey, if you're enjoying the show, you can help us grow by subscribing, leaving a very nice review if you don't mind, and sharing with a friend. That all helps us

help more people get some real hope in their life. So thank you for that. 888-825-5225 is the number. Let's go to Simone, who joins us in Baltimore, Maryland. Simone, how can we help? Hi. Well, I'm 25, and I don't have a college degree, and I'm unemployed. But I'm in a lawsuit right now that's about to reach settlement. And so I'm going to have about

three, around $3 million after I pay my lawyer, and I don't know what to do with it, and I don't want to mess it up. Wow. Now, how confident are you that this number is what you're getting? You said it's about to settle. So is this just all about signing, dotting the I's, crossing the T's? Just curious, before we jump into the advice on the money, how confident are you that it is, in fact, $3 million that you'll be walking away with? Like 85%. Okay. Do you have any idea what the range would be? Uh,

Definitely, definitely $3 million or more. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. I got you. $3 million or more. Okay. There you go, George. How about that? Wow. That's a lot of money. So my first question is, is this going to be taxable income or are you confident that it will be tax-free? Yep, it's tax-free. Wow. And how much money do you have currently?

Zero. Well, not zero. I probably have like $100 going in right now. That's pretty close to zero. Yeah. Okay, so this is life-changing money, and you're calling us to go, I don't want to screw this up. I want to be a good steward of this money and use it wisely. Do you need any of this money? I want it to last as long as possible. Absolutely, and I think you can do that. I'm glad you're calling us and not going on a spending spree and then calling us later saying, I blew $3 million. What do I do now?

So I'm glad we're on the other side of it. One question, George, before you break the numbers down in the investing side of this and saving, are you planning to work in the near future?

Uh, yeah. I mean, I was a college student and I left school cause I had to take care of my family. Um, and now I'm kind of just kind of figure out cause I don't want to go back into debt. I already paid the college loans off. Um, and I am in debt $12,000, but not from a student loans. I just like, if I go back to school, that's, that's another thing. I'm like, should I pay it out of pocket or should I, or should I take the loans out? And then I'm like, no, no,

You're going to have enough money. I don't got to go to college. That's the issue. That's why I'm asking that. Like, what is it that you want to do? I just want to, I mean, I don't really want to work for anybody. You don't work for yourself? I don't work for anybody.

But I do, I mean, I don't mind having my own business, but that's never really crossed my mind. Okay. Well, I'll tell you what. I don't want to sidetrack you here. We've got some resources, George, I want to give her towards the end of this call to kind of help you kind of forge your path. But I was just curious. Here's what I don't want. I'm just going to say this.

I don't want you, even though you don't work for anybody else long-term, short-term, I want you to start working, even if it's just a day job, to be able to bring in income so that we're not just living off this. Excuse me. Yeah, this is... I did have a job. I just quit it in October. I mean, my job is really inconsistent with communication, and I just was over it. Okay, good. All right. Yeah, there's two pieces here. We've got to find you a career you love regardless of this money, and then the other side is we want to steward this wisely. So do you have any debt right now?

Yes. I have maybe like $15,000 in debt. Okay. What kind of debt is that? It's probably like $3,000 in credit cards, and then the rest is from the car loan. Okay. So when will you get the settlement money? When will it actually show up in a bank account?

In the next three months. And is this a lump sum? You're getting $3 million just on a check or wired to your bank account? Yeah, it'll be wired to my bank account. Well, my lawyer said that it's going to be a check with both of our names on it. Who's our names? Like my name and my lawyer's name, like the law firm. Okay. Is he getting a cut of the $3 million?

No, it's going to be, we're actually selling them for six. Okay. And then, but I was like, if I do- Your cut is three. Yeah. Okay. So there's a few things I want to tell you. Number one, the best thing to do with this money is just filter it through the baby steps. And so as soon as you get that money, let's pay off the debt and get you a fully funded emergency fund in place, which is going to be six months of expenses for you.

So we pay off 15K and then let's stack up, let's say, what, 30K? Would that be a full emergency fund for you? Yeah, that should be good. And what that does, that's a never get into debt again fund, isn't it? You never need a car loan again. In fact, I would cut up the credit cards today and be done with them forever because you just became your own bank. You don't need Capital One's help.

And it's going to cause you to make different decisions when you use Simone's money versus Capital One's money. So I'm going to encourage you to card up the cards as well. Now, beyond getting out of debt, getting the emergency fund in place, I want you to have a reliable, reasonable car and maybe a home that's reasonable as well. And you could pay cash for those things now, couldn't you? Yeah. Are you renting right now? Actually, I live rent-free right now because I'm living with my sister. Cool. Yeah.

Yeah. And do you plan on staying in Baltimore long-term? No, I want to move to Korea. Whoa. Well, that's a dream. Yeah. Okay. And this money could set you up for that if that's your goal. Now, are you going to be working there? What's the goal of moving to Korea? I do want to work. Actually, I think I want to work for an American company and then work in Korea. Now, wait a second. What happened to the person who said they didn't want to work for anybody, wanted to work for themselves?

Well, either whatever I've done. There's like this part of me that's like, I have to work the rest of my life. But then there's, I've been reading so many books in the last six months that I'm like, well, I don't want to work for anybody. But there's still this part of me that's like, I need to get a job. Yeah, well, a couple things. You don't have to work for the rest of your life. You do what George tells you right now with this, and you invest this wisely, you're going to be fine.

And there's a point where you'll get to decide how you work, when you work, whatever. But you read these books, and I'm not going to make you name these books, but be very, very careful of how we let content sway us. And that clues, by the way, anything I say, George says, like, you've got to be able to receive something and then process it and not let it completely change your direction unless you decide.

So I think that you need to figure out what is it that I'm really, really good at doing? What is it that I really enjoy doing? And then what results do I want to put out into the world? Right? Does that make sense? Yeah. And I think if you play around with that, you can figure that out. In fact, I'm going to give you my get clear assessment. It takes about 15, 20 minutes. It's going to measure your skill set, what you do best. It's going to measure what you love to do, work that brings you enjoyment. And then what motivates you?

And we'll give you the book From Paycheck to Purpose as well, which kind of gives you a very clear path of how I go from ideation to activation. Make sense?

Okay. Those are my gifts to you, okay? But you're going to be fine financially if you take George's advice. So, Simone, here's your next steps on the financial side. You need to assemble a dream team around you. And what that's going to look like for you is a really great insurance broker because you need an umbrella policy to cover you now on top of great auto insurance, homeowner's insurance, you name it. And on top of that, you're going to want to have a great lawyer. That may not be the lawyer you currently have.

You may want to have a great accountant in your corner to handle all of the tax implications as you move forward, and maybe a real estate agent as well. And good news for you, you can connect with all of those trusted pros at ramseysolutions.com to help you. But let me encourage you, even if you pay off debt, you put $30,000 in the emergency fund, you buy a $450,000 house, that still leaves you with $2.5 million, correct?

Uh, yeah. Now, if you invest that $2.5 million and you can get connected with an investing pro at RamseySolutions.com, they can help you with this. If you just invested that into the stock market and you saw returns of, let's say, 8% to 11%, you could have anywhere from $40 million to $100 million when you turn 60. Does that blow your mind?

And so that's the power of compound growth and letting this money grow for you so that you never have to worry about money again. And I have faith you'll get there. Don't go blow this money. Walk slowly. Use the resources that Ken's going to send you. Yeah, you got this, Simone. We believe in you. Hang on. We've got some goodies for you. Appreciate the call. Good hour, George Campbell. Thank you, sir. Thanks to James Childs, our fearless leader, and all the gang in the booth to keep us on the air. Thank you, America, for listening. This is The Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money, your work, your life.

And in your relationships, 888-825-5225 is the number for you to jump in. We'd love to talk with you. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. We're Ramsey Personalities, and we are here for you. I'll help you on any work-related questions. Chime in on the money stuff. George will help you out on the money stuff. Chime in on any work-related stuff. So we love taking your calls. We're all about helping you win. So let's get to it. Sonia or Sonia? I never know, George. We're going to find out. You feel like it's Sonia?

Yeah. I'm going to go with Sonia as well. We'll see. Sonia, is that how we say your name in Dallas, Texas? Hi, George. Hi, Ken. This is Sonia. Yes. Yes. We got it right. Okay. It's such an honor to speak with both of you. I'm so nervous. My heart is pounding. Oh, my goodness. Well, first of all, all right, take a deep breath and know that you're already doing a wonderful job. So we're here for you. You can't mess this up because it's all about your story. So what's up?

All right. So we have two residences. We have a rental property out in Arkansas and we have a primary residence out here in Dallas, Fort Worth that we just bought last year. And my husband and I have been at a

a tug of war between whether we sell the arkansas property it's a paid for rental property um to pay off our primary residence or i should repeat a rephrase it's not to pay off but to expedite the process of paying off our primary residence he wants to keep the rental i want to sell it so is this rental property changing your life financially um

Yes, in a way, because that would mean that it would very quickly pay off our primary residence. I mean, currently, with the rent you're getting from this place and the headache, is it just like, wow, we're making $50,000 a year from this rental? No, we're not, because if it's okay, I'd like to give you some numbers. Sure.

So we make pretty decent income. We make about $220,000. And our rental property is worth about $350,000. And our primary residence, which we still have a mortgage on, is about $548,000. We have no other debt. We have a pretty decent retirement 401k set up. And we're

Yeah, both under 40. So I think, you know, either way, I know that we'll be okay. It's just that for me, I'm in a hurry just to clear out all my debt so that we can, you know, utilize that money towards putting it towards so many other things. He, on the other hand, wants to keep his investment property because he feels like he's never going to get another opportunity, you know, at that price that we bought about seven years ago.

Okay. What is this rental property bringing in? It's bringing in about $24,000 a year. Okay. And that's on top of your $220,000? Correct. And what's your monthly mortgage payment? Here, it's about $4,000. So you're telling me if you pay off this mortgage, you would have $4,000 back in your life every month? Yes. Which is double what you're making from the rental property?

Yes. And not to mention interest because, you know, that's the killer because we ended up buying it, I think, at the peak. Well, it's still pretty bad, but I know last year, right before it kind of slowed down, that's when we bought our current home that we live in. So what's your interest rate on the primary? 5.5. Okay. And what's the mortgage? You said the 548. Is that what's left on the mortgage or is that what it's worth?

It's worth about $675. We have about $548 left. Okay. Yeah, that's a hefty mortgage. Makes sense that it's $4,000 with those interest rates. And you're going to take all of the equity, all the proceeds you get from the rental would go on to your primary, knocking it down to about what? That's what I would like, yes. Close to $200 left? Yes.

I mean, after capital gains, because we haven't lived in that, we've been running it out for the last like four years. So after the capital gains, I'm not sure. But it's still a very substantial amount that we would knock it down to. And, you know, it's just about, you know, I guess us trying to be on the same page about it. But I am always, you guys have really changed our lives because I know we've

We found you in the pandemic and we had two kids since the pandemic. And we're just trying to make sure that, you know, we're, we're on baby step four, five, six. So, you know, we're, we just want to make sure that, you know, we're, we're,

going to get to that millionaire status very soon. Absolutely. Well, I'm on your team, maybe not for the same reasons, but I think, you know, the way we look at it is this, and Ken, chime in on this. If you were living in Texas and you said, hey, we're looking at this investment property in Arkansas that we want to buy,

You wouldn't do that, would you? It doesn't make sense to be a long distance landlord. And so that's kind of how I reverse engineer it to go. I'm selling this thing. I know it's beautiful. It's paid for, which is awesome. I love that for you guys. And the money's nice, especially when it's cash flowing like that with no mortgage attached to it. But at the same time, I think you guys are going to be back there because think about this. You're going to have a little over 200 left on the mortgage. You're making 220. You're going to pay that thing off in two years.

And now you're making 220 with no mortgage, which is going to free up 50 grand that you can then put towards saving up for a new investment property.

Right. And his argument is just that he does not want, he doesn't think that he's going to get an investment property at such a low. Cause when we bought it seven years ago, we bought it for like 200,000. And so he just feels like it's just, that's not going to happen now. Um, even after we pay off our primary residence, which I disagree with, but I'm just, I'm trying to make this call just so that, you know, I'm able to persuade him, um, uh,

you know, that he does, we end up selling it and putting it towards our primary resident. It was kind of like a little challenge because he was like, why don't you call Dave Ramsey and find out? And I'm like, you know what? I will do it. I'm glad you did because he can watch this. You can actually watch this back. George asked me to chime in. This is what I'm going to say. I think that what he has to understand is,

is that he's looking at this from a scarcity mindset versus abundance. That's all a bunch of fancy stuff. Let me just break it down. What that means is he's going, if we sell this now, we're never going to find a property like this again, as opposed to what I thought George laid out beautifully. Focus on what this property, because it's debt-free and you can now sell it, what does it do for your future?

He's kind of in the past on this and he's going, well, it's paid for. It's thrown off this, but George is right. It's long distance. It's a pain in the neck. And instead of looking at what do we got to do to keep it, it's celebrate what we are going to do with it because we can sell it. I just think it's a shift in mindset and he's worried about the wrong thing as opposed to going, wait a second, this is a massive fast forward button.

That's what I think. Absolutely. And he also needs to remember that he almost doubled the home appreciation here. He bought it at $200,000 and now it's worth $350,000. Let's celebrate that. That's a huge win. And it's one of the beauties of real estate. Leverage it. That's what you have to think of is how much further do we get ahead in life by leveraging this investment?

That's the right kind of leverage right there. It really is. Instead of debt leverage. So you guys have done a great job, though. I'm proud of Sonia and her husband. I'm excited. They're not even 40 yet, and here they are making these kinds of choices. Yeah. Hopefully Hubs gets on board. For the record, Hubs, George and I are with your wife. That's three against one. It's three against one. I'm not a math prodigy, but I think we're winning. I think it's one if it's a vote. We voted. We'll see. We'll see what happens. If only Congress handled things that easily.

We'd be in a better place. But I digress. He's George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show. Don't move. More coming up. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel joins me. We are here for you, America. 888-825-5225. Taking your money questions and your work questions. The money work thing. Very, very... Inextricably tied. Very...

Thank you. That's the word you were looking for. You knew it, too. I love a good usage of inextricable. By the way, use that at your holiday party. It's a little bonus. And that's a 50 cent word that people go, okay. I was going to go $10, Bob, but... You think it's $10? It's a $10 word. Okay, very good. Um...

Hey, listen, let me tell you what I think is maybe one of the most invaluable shows we do here at the Ramsey Network and the Ramsey Show, and that's our giving edition of the Ramsey Show. It's a fan favorite. We do this every year around Christmas time. What does that mean? We want to hear your stories. You're always the star of the show as we take your calls, but we want to flip it a little bit and say you're the star.

But you're going to share stories. It doesn't have to be a story about you specifically. It could involve you, but it is a giving story. Maybe you've tipped the waitress $100 or you bought Thanksgiving dinner or toys for tots that needed it. Who knows? Maybe you've been on the receiving end of an unbelievable gift.

and you want to thank that person or persons who gave to you, we want to hear it. Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash ask. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash ask and put giving in the subject line. And we do this every year around Christmas time. It's coming up. It'll be here before you know it, George, December 18th. By the way, it's probably time for you to start shopping for your old pal.

Ken Coleman? Yeah, your desk mate. That's speaking of generosity. We'll see how generous I feel this holiday season. I'll try to be nicer throughout the rest of the show. How many cashmere sweaters do you need, Ken? That's all I'm saying. Well, you know, you need one of every color. Don't forget the cardigan cashmere is the double combo. That's right. If you really love me, that's what you'll get me. Just so you can make more fun of me.

But I digress. December 18th, The Giving Show. As you know, for decades, Dave has challenged us all to live like no one else so later you can give like no one else. We'd love to hear your story. All right, it's time for our question of the day brought to you by Neighborly. I feel like we need a jingle on this.

this. I don't think they want it from us. I'll tell you that much. I think they probably would like it if you and I harmonized neighborly and kind of went up kind of just the octave. Yeah, let's work on that. Yeah, we're going to work on that. We'll see how that goes. James is shaking his head vociferously right now. Um,

Your hub for home services is Neighborly. When you need to make repairs, schedule routine maintenance, or get local help for home improvement projects like George and I need because we can't do anything around the house, go to Neighborly.com slash Ramsey, your source to find and schedule reliable home service providers in your area. Today's question comes from Maria in Arizona.

I'm trying to make a decision. I recently started a new job, but I feel like the nature of the work is not my passion. However, the job pays really well. I'm making around $91,000, but I'm thinking about going into another position where I would be taking a drastic pay cut, more like $42,000.

but I feel like this other position would be less stressful and somewhere I could make more of an impact, but I'm not sure it's the right decision. How do you balance pay with something you feel called to? Oh, I love this question. I love this question. And can I just tell you, tell me he's not here today, but Dave kind of doesn't like it when I throw this out there. And, and, and let me tell you what I think about this. And I base this on fact.

Ramsey Solutions, George, as you know, has done the largest study of net worth millionaires all time, over 10,000. Number three in the top three group of net worth millionaires were teachers. So what that tells us, all of us, is that you can become a millionaire by living on less than you make. And that is largely driven, George, by contentment. Contentment with your contribution.

You know, as Deloney says sometimes, are you willing to live a civic life? You know, a Honda Civic. Are you willing to drive these things? Are you willing to live in a ranch that maybe was built in 1955? That's the idea. And in America's consumer culture, it's more and more bigger, increasingly newer, nicer. That's right. So that's philosophically setting up my answer here. And I believe that if Maria can live off of

42 K versus 91. That's a big cut George. But if she and her family in that situation, they don't go into a super tight paycheck to paycheck style of living, uh, then, then I'm all for it. So if you can afford it, do it. Now the caveat there is what must I do to be able to afford to

working in a $42,000 job. And if you can do it and you're content in it, I say absolutely do it. And I think that we're seeing this younger generation. I'm having some fascinating conversations with Ty, my oldest. You know, Gen Z is thinking more and more about contentment. They really are about the kind of life they want to live. Well, they've seen their parents work jobs they hate. They don't like the rat race. They're watching it and they're going, I don't get it. We're seeing more and more of these videos pop up on TikTok and I actually applaud them.

And so in this situation, if you can manage the drastic pay cut, but on the backside of it, you're not hurting yourself financially, putting yourself in a negative situation, and you are content and fulfilled, I say absolutely do it. Yeah, I like that caveat. How controversial is that, George? I think you have a great point. It's not all you can't just look at, well, I would never take a pay cut.

I've been there, and you might take the pay cut temporarily. Now, my goal for Maria is that if it's something she loves doing, that tells me that she's probably going to be really good at it because she's focused and intense about it, which tells me she's probably going to be making more money soon. And so I would be looking at the overall trajectory. Maybe. Maybe a different ceiling. I want to caution against that. She might not be making $100,000 ever doing this. We don't know. I want to use an extreme example here to make a bigger point, if we could. Mother Teresa.

lives her life in poverty. That's an extreme example. I understand, but the point is made. This is a woman who was given to ministry and service, and she decided to live, she changed her lifestyle to be able to do the things she was called to. I'm not saying we all are called to poverty. But are you willing to make the sacrifices needed to do that mission? That's the issue.

what's driving you, stuff or significance? I do think it's that simple. And I think you can change your lifestyle to fit that. I really do. I believe that. I believe that. So just hold on to that help. Yeah. If we were on the phone with Maria, we'd have a lot, a better picture of what her financial life looks like if this is a good idea right now. But that's a great answer, Ken. All right. Let's get to Joe in Washington, DC. Joe, how can we help?

Hi. Yeah, I was just calling because I have some student loan debt, and I was just wondering the best ways I should go about handling that. Okay. How much student loan debt do you have? I have just under $40,000, $38,000. Okay. And are you working in a job right now? If so, what do you make?

I am. Right now, I make $4,000 a month after taxes. Okay. Any other debt besides the student loan debt? Nope. Just student loans. No credit card or anything else. Great. All right, George, how many student loans do you have? If you broke them all out, how many are there? I believe four. Okay. Awesome. So if you look at the smallest debt,

You want to attack that one first while making minimum payments on the rest. That's called the debt snowball method. It's just smallest to largest balance, focus intensity on the smallest one. And I had a very similar situation to yours. I had $36,000 in student loan debt and I paid it off in 18 months and I wasn't even making what you were making.

How'd you do it, George? It was side hustles, lean cuisines, living on less than I make, saying no to friends, keeping my lifestyle in check, all of those things. Over 18 months, you start to go, all right, this becomes a math problem, doesn't it? If you make $4,000 a month, you have $38,000 in student loan debt. I want you to pay it off in 18 months. You need to be putting over $2,000 a month toward your student loans. Can you do that currently with your budget? No.

I believe I can, but I also have $42,000 in savings. Oh, my gosh. Joe! My one predicament was if I should just wipe that clean. Why'd you bury the lead, my man? Okay, this becomes a lot easier. Tell him, George, we got about 50 seconds. Pay it off today. That leaves you with $4,000, right? Yes. Now we're going to build a fully funded emergency fund from there with this newfound money because you just freed up all those payments.

I'm telling you, it's worth it. You wouldn't be calling on the show if you were debt-free. And that tells me you don't want this debt in your life. You have the money to pay it off. I know it hurts because you've worked so hard to build that $42,000. But it had Sally Mae's name on it. And it still does until you're free from her. Break the chain, my man. Pay it off. You will not regret it. And you're going to be back to having that $40,000 in savings real soon.

Sally and Fannie Mae, the Sisters of Misery. Get them out of there. Sisters of Misery. It sounds like a rock and roll. Nice ladies, though. Really? If you get to know them. I'm kidding. Sarcasm, folks. I'll tell you a fun story coming back right after the break. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're so thrilled you're with us. We're here to help you win in your money and in your work today. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. Folks, it is that time of the year where you've got to get that gift. And can we be honest with you for just a moment, as if we're not going to be honest the rest of the show? I don't know what that means. What a nice change of pace, Ken, that you're going to be honest. Yeah, we're going to be honest. So the amount of gifts we feel pressured to buy.

In America around Christmas time. It's endless, George. I feel it. It used to be the family. And then it was like, well, our Uncle Larry and Aunt Maude coming in. Well, we got to get him something. We got to get Aunt Maude. And then at what point do you go, well, we're not going to send gifts away anymore. It's all the stress around gift buying. It's a lot. All right. Then you got the office gifts.

Do you buy a gift for the boss? Do you get it for the co-worker? I mean, I try to put as much pressure on you as possible to give me a gift. Well, the Ken Coleman Show team, I know they're getting some nice gifts this year. Yeah, the Isotoners are going to be great, thanks to Dan Marino. But, you know, it's like, okay, so what do I get? What if I get a gift that keeps on giving? And this is not the Jelly of the Month Club from National Lampoon. Is it Jell-O or Jelly? I think it's Jelly. I think it's Jelly. How about meaningful gifts...

in our $12 sale at Ramsey Solutions. Our best-selling books like Total Money Makeover, Baby Steps to Millionaire, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, Don't Forget from Paycheck to Purpose, just $12 each. Quests for Human Cards, there's only 300 of those decks.

Something for everyone. Something for everybody. I think they have it for dogs at this point. I saw one the other day. It was a question for humans octogenarian version. Wow. If you're hanging out at the old folks home. For those that have some years experience. Yeah, you know, because it's like a decade sensitive type deck.

there. That's true. So that's out there. All kinds of great stuff at RamseySolutions.com slash store. RamseySolutions.com slash store. Check it out. You can't beat that sale. So there you go. Fun stuff. All right. To the phones we go. Detroit, Michigan is where Andrew joins us. Andrew, how can we help? Hi, guys. Thank you for taking my call. You bet. What's up? A few years ago, I stopped working my nine-to-five to do rideshare.

And recently they said that we can't do the luxury rideshare anymore. So I've been going through my savings. But most importantly, my daughter helped me purchase the car for Lyft. And I've been hearing her show that we should just sell Lyft.

these bad loans or cars with bad loans but um we're pretty underwater on the car and i was wondering how do i go about selling the car that you're uh underwater on and how can i improve my situation until i find another job basically what were you doing before ride share i was working as a technical writer okay were you making more money doing ride share is that why you quit it

Exactly. I started making about $300 more a week and I had more time for myself. So I said it sounds like a better gig. So I started working less hours doing rideshare and earning a little more money. Okay. Now what happens when you get rid of this car? Because you just lost your full-time job, essentially.

Exactly. Basically, I haven't paid for a car, so I have a car that I can drive. Oh, you've got two cars. One is for ride share, one is your personal, essentially? Yes. Well, now it is. I had an old Beater send in a backyard that I never drove, but now if I can get rid of the car, I don't mind driving it. So you're upside down? My wife has it very, very much so. All right, give us the numbers.

I still owe about 50, a little more than 52, and it's only worth about 25. What car is this?

This is a Tesla Model X, and I used it for luxury driving. And Lyft has said, we're not going to do luxury driving anymore in my area. So I can't support it. When it was going strong, I had no issues at all. I got a nice budget, but now I'm going through all of me and my wife's savings, and I'm trying to see what my best course is. What year is it? Why do you think it's only worth $25,000? Is it just super high mileage because of how much driving you do?

Uh, the mileage and the condition, and they don't have a good resale value to begin with. So I looked up. Well, what year is it? This is a 2016. Okay. So it's older, but you bought it brand new back in 2016? I did not. I bought it used a few years ago. And you still had a $52,000 loan on it. Exactly. Yes. Oh, man. Well, you probably bought at the height on top of, you know, the market, car market taking a dip. Yeah.

Oh, boy. Okay. How much money do you have in savings? I went through my savings trying to find another job, so I don't have anything. I have about $1,200. And my guess is your credit is shot, considering your daughter had to co-sign for you. Indeed it is. Goodness gracious. Yeah, when you said my daughter helped me, she did not help you. She enabled a terrible financial decision that she's now caught up in.

What is her financial state? Yeah. I think y'all need to stop helping each other because it usually ends up with bad decisions being made. Yeah, I was going to say. Let's let her do her thing and you do your thing.

Yeah, no decel. So, George, I think there's no short-sell option here because he can't get a loan from a credit union for the smaller amount. Yeah, they're not going to give you the difference. I think you're going to be working yourself to almost asleep. You're working like crazy and way better pay. You're not driving anymore, but you've got to pay this thing off or at least pay it down to where you can make a little something on it. You still owe $52,000? I still owe a little more than $52,000, yes. What was the original balance?

Oh, boy. Going 60 grand into debt for free energy.

Basically. Yeah. Okay. Well, you can try going to where the loan is held and walking into that bank and saying, I need to talk to the manager. Here's the situation. You guys have a bad loan on your hands because this car is only worth this much. I owe this much. I need the difference in a loan so I can pay down that $25 or $27 or whatever the difference is in order to get out from under this. That's the only way you're going to get out of this thing other than just paying it down.

Okay. Or saving up the difference and then selling it. And you've got to fight for it. Those are three tough options. But you've got to fight for it. You've got to really convince them that they're going to get their 25 or 27 back. They're probably not going to get the 50, whatever. And you've got to hope that they look at that and they believe you, and there's your shot. And you can pay that off a lot quicker than you can the 52. But, I mean, you're going to need another job. A couple of jobs. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm looking out to do a replacement. I thought I could try to find something that makes the same amount, but I'm going to be selling here shortly, and I need to get back in the workplace. But again, two or three jobs, four jobs, selling everything else. You got anything else you can sell? My house, actually. Well, that's an extreme situation. But then you're going to have a—you said you own it free and clear? Yeah.

Uh, technically because I bought it and then I maxed out some credit cards to get it, but to get it, uh, operational, but yes, it's technically free and clear besides the credit cards that I maxed out to make it right.

Okay. And I would do some more homework on that car value because I'm looking it up right now. It seems real low. What I'm seeing online right now is anywhere from 33 to 40 is what that car should be worth. So before you just go, it's worth 25, you might have a shorter gap or smaller gap than you think you do. And that could give you some hope to get out of this thing sooner.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Tell him what, tell it. That's just a same area as he is. And then I just did my zip code with a hundred mile radius and see what these cars are going for. 2016 model. Okay. So that is so Andrew, let's go, let's go multiple sites, get the value up on that. Let's get the most we can get to the bank and get busy.

You've got to change this stuff. And I would not right now sell that house. We want to hold on to that. If you own that, there's no debt. That's a last-ditch effort to avoid bankruptcy. Don't rush into that. Thank you for the call. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. So excited to have you with us as we talk with you about you, specifically your life. We want to help you win financially. And a big part of that is winning professionally.

And so I'm Ken Coleman, the work personality here at Range of Solutions. George Camel, one of our financial and money personalities, is with me today. 888-825-5225. How can George and I help you in those areas? We'd love to hear from you. 888-825-5225. Speaking of how we can help you.

For years, we've talked to people about knowing where your money is. Where is it going? Why is it going there as a part of the process of the baby steps that we teach to help you win with money. And EveryDollar is our world-class budgeting app that helps you manage money the Ramsey way. You can start EveryDollar for free and immediately to see where you stand with your money. It helps you get organized, personalize your budget, stop overspending, and save money.

If you're brand new to EveryDollar, we'll show you a long-term financial roadmap, track your net worth, debt-free date, retirement date, baby step progress, and so much more. It's just walking alongside of you, taking the stress out of this process. We want you to actually engage in this app.

It'll help you build wealth and reach your financial goals. You can download the free app for iOS and Android or go to everydollar.com to get started. That's everydollar.com. By the way, do you have something going on, a webinar of sorts? Has that already happened? Rachel did one today, but we do them ongoing. Oh, that's right, a lot of times.

And so Rachel, Jade, and I have been doing these really fun webinars at everydollar.com slash budgeting. We always let people know when the next one's coming up, but they're just free. They're an hour long and we kind of onboard people, show them all the features and show them how it can create margin and peace in their financial life. So look out for that, everydollar.com slash budgeting. Get on board in the next one. It's really a fun way to kind of kick the tires and realize it's easier than you think. So there you go. All right, to the phones we go. Chicago is where Kyle joins us. Kyle, how can we help?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. How are you doing today? We're doing great. What's going on with you?

So just a little bit of backstory. I'm on baby step number three. So trying to say three, six months of emergency fund. But I own a townhouse in the Chicagoland area, but my cousin goes to university of Tennessee Knoxville and my uncle and I were thinking about going in on a townhouse for her and a couple of roommates together. So I was just wondering your opinion, if I should go in with my uncle on that financial investment or if I should hold off until I

I basically pay off my town home mortgage until I basically try to invest in real estate further.

Well, I think you know the answer. You called our show and you know when investing in real estate would fall into the baby steps. And that's after you have your primary home paid off and you do it with cash. And so, no, I would not step into this. And there's other reasons, too. This just sounds messy. You're going into this deal with a family member and equity and deeds and it's long distance. There's a lot that I don't like about this plan, truthfully.

In your financial position as well, being in Baby Step 3, you don't have an emergency fund in place. You don't have your townhome paid off, it sounds like, correct? Correct. I do not have it paid off currently. I've paid off about $58,000, but there's still about $182,000 left to go. Okay. And this would obviously slow down your financial progress there. Correct, yeah. And you don't have any money to put into this investment. Do you have separate savings? No.

Yes, I do. So I have about $13,000 in a CD right now that would mature before we would go in on the investments. So that would be around $14,000. And then I have $10,000 in my savings, which is kind of the building blocks for my emergency fund. And then I have about $5,000 in my checking. And then about $33,000 between a 401k...

HSA and stock market. Okay. Well, if you have anything that's non-retirement, I think you could liquidate that to help speed up the emergency fund. And I would use that CD money to fully fund your emergency fund. And I wouldn't have done the CD to begin with because of how illiquid it is, but that's for another time. But I would focus on the baby steps. Right now, you're doing a lot at once. I assume you're investing as well?

- Just through my 401k, but in the stock market, I'm kind of holding off on that for now until I get in a better financial position.

Yeah. So, I mean, you're doing Kyle's plan, which is fine. I'm not saying you won't succeed in that, but I'm telling you, when you follow a proven plan and you just pause investing, let's get the emergency fund set up and baby step three, let's begin investing the right way, 15% into retirement, let's pay off the house and let's save that investment property for a later date. And I would do it on your terms and I would not do a long distance and I probably wouldn't involve family because that just is, it's going to get messy. Yeah.

And we just see that too much on this show. Okay, yeah, no, that's understandable. But thank you for your opinion. Absolutely. Yeah, thanks for the call. Not the answer he wanted to hear, I could tell. But, Ken, the amount of times someone called into the show and said, I went in on this investment property with my uncle long distance, and it has worked out amazingly well. That's right. It's usually, I went in on this deal with my uncle, and you're the last call we make until we go to the people's court. You know what I mean? There we go.

By the way, who's there now? Judge Wapner's long gone. Who's... You know, as astute as I am, I've not kept up with the roster of who's running people's courts. Who's the latest judge? We're having a little fun with the fact that it's just a mess. Yeah. Because what happens later on down the road? Uncle wants to sell. He needs the money. You don't want to sell. There's capital gains. That's right. Who's going to go deal with the HVAC situation? Well, if Uncle Larry's taking care of it.

And he can't do it anymore because of his gout, kind of kicked up, no pun intended. And we got a problem. Just stay out of the family real estate. Everything looks good on paper until life happens. And that's what we deal with on the show, is on the other side when life happened and it didn't work out. All right, life happens caller after caller. Pat is now joining us in Birmingham. Pat, how can we help?

Hey, how's it going? My question is, I have asbestos in my popcorn ceiling, and I'm wondering if it constitutes an emergency fund draw. I'm trying to save up for my three- to six-month emergency fund of about $6,000 right now, and the job would cost around $8,000 to $10,000. They've offered to do, like, payments from...

three payments, three equal payments. But I'm just not sure if I should pull the trigger on it right now. Could you cash flow it with the three equal payments? I think so. And this isn't no interest, correct? Right. George, what do you think about that? I mean, that would be, you've got to fix this ASAP. You can't live there, right?

Yeah, I mean, from what I've heard, as long as you don't like touch and you don't mess with it, then it's fine. A lot of people have said just remediate the one spot, you know, but for retail purposes and just for peace of mind, I would rather get the whole house done. And that would cost you eight, you said?

Yeah. Have you got a few bids? Eight without the drywall finishing, the ceiling finishing, and then probably about 10 with the ceiling refinished. How quickly could you save up two grand? If you sold stuff, got a side job, whatever it took, could you do that in a week or two, three weeks, a month? Probably about a month or two. Okay. Okay.

I'm wondering if we start on this thing and you attempt to cashflow it, whatever's left, you make a payment the following month and finish it off with them. You make that agreement with them on paper. Yeah. But, and this is not ideal, but just from a cashflow perspective, George, if you could put up with it, um,

If you're okay living for three, four, five, six months with just the ceiling not... Yeah, if it's not a health safety issue. Well, once the drywall's in, if you're comfortable looking at that dry mud... Finish it later. Finish it a little bit later. I'm just saying it's an option. Yeah. When we talk about cash... Is this your entire family? Is it you? Yeah, it's my family. It's my wife and two children. Oh, the wife is probably not going to go for that. I got a strong feeling. Right? Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, like, it would be better if we had the ceiling finished. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, again, George is okay with the cash flow. And that's what I was thinking. As long as it's not debt and we're not any interest payments on that and they're giving you, they're going to work with you. I think that's fantastic. And I'd still get a few bids. I would too. And even say, Hey, if I do all six, you know, six grand upfront cash, would you guys be willing to work with me on this?

And they may be willing to do that to have some instant cash flow. Maybe. Don't get your hopes up on these trades. Sometimes a cash deal makes, I get, you know. Even on the trades where they're just in demand? Well, sometimes you get cold hard cash and they like that when you flash the green, Ken. I'm just saying. Did you say cold hearted? Cold hearted.

Hard cash. Oh, hard. Cold-hearted cash. Cold hard. Okay, I see. But to the question, if it's urgent, unexpected, and necessary, you pull from the emergency fund. If you can't say yes to all those, it's probably justification. But I like this case. I like this situation. I think you can cash flow this. It's pretty serious. I think you can cash flow it, which is a good move. All right, good advice, George, as always. Good hour to my friend and to James Childs, our fearless leader.

And the crew in the booth, thank you. Thank you, America, for listening. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. Honored to be joined by my pal George Camel.

Who got a special delivery. We'll talk about that a little bit later. We'll just tease that. What a tease. Yeah, special delivery during the break, but we're excited to be with you. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Knoxville, Tennessee. And I believe this is Allie or Ali. I'm not sure. Is it Allie? It's Allie. All right. Excellent. Good guest today. All right. So what's going on, Allie? How can we help?

Yeah, first I want to thank you for taking my call. My husband and I are leaning towards the idea of selling our house, and we wanted to get an idea if we're doing the right thing, and if we do sell the house, that we have a good plan with the money. Okay, what's driving you to this decision? I'm drowning in bills, and I'm pretty much the sole provider of

Um, and I just want relief. We've grown out of our home pretty much. Um, we've done pretty much everything to it. Part of the reason why we're in debt is we had to get new plumbing. We had to get a new HVAC. And with all those loans, I'm pretty much taking all of my take home pay and paying the mortgage and we're drowning in the interest from the loan. So what, how much consumer debt do you guys have?

Um, so as far as like credit cards, um, everything but the mortgage. Okay. I would say 40,000. Okay. And what's the mortgage? Um, we owe 105. All right. And what is the household income? Um, seven to 8,000. A month? Yeah. Is that gross or take home? Um, gross. Okay. Okay.

So you're making close to six figures, and that's just you? You said your husband, is he not working outside the home? Is he with the kids? What's he doing? Yeah, he is going to school and mostly stays home with our daughter, but he does go to work two days a week, so he's making about $1,200 a month. Okay, and that's adding to the seven or eight? No, that's combined with it. Okay, got it.

So why are things so tight? It doesn't sound like the payments on the mortgage and the consumer debt payments, you shouldn't be drowning. There are multiple loans, so the interest with the loans, like we have a few payday loans. Oh my gosh. And just like, yeah. Why'd you have to turn to payday loans? Was your credit shot? Yeah, my credit is shot.

Okay. Well, the good news is you guys have a great income, and I think we can even up the income, and Ken can help with that, to get out of this debt fast. These payday loans are scum of the earth, and when you look at what the interest rate amounts to, it can be 300%, which is why you feel like you're drowning. Yeah. It's just a vortex where the balance never goes down because of how high this interest is. So I'm sorry you're dealing with that. We want to get you on a path to get rid of all of this. What is your smallest debt that you have right now?

The smallest debt, I would say a credit card. Like we have a few credit cards that only have about $200 to $300 left on them. Okay. So you can knock that out today probably, correct? Not really. No, I think they're paycheck to paycheck. So you have nothing. Are you able to cover all of your bills currently or are you behind on any?

Oh, yeah, we've had to not pay some bills because at the end of the month, I mean, there's still stuff that needs paid. Okay, now I just want to jump in really quick because I'm just curious. Is it all the debt payments that are making you be delinquent in other payments? Or is it you guys have no idea where your money's going? You're not doing a budget and you guys just, you're not even sure where it's going.

I would say it's a little bit of both. It's like we have so much in debt, I just pay what I can in debt, and then groceries I try to set a limit. But regardless, we're always short, even whenever we do set a budget. I'm really confused where all this money is going. What does your total consumer debt add up to in payments every month? About $5,000.

$5,000? And that's aside from the mortgage? What's the mortgage payment? $500. Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, we're going to have to up the income and start knocking these debts out until you get rid of some of these ankle biters. It'll free up a payment. Is there anything you can sell? Are any of these debts like a car or something? Before you go to sell the house, is there anything else?

I mean, I have a car, but I'm upside down on it. And my husband's truck, I mean, it's worth $500. And that's included in the $40,000 of debt that you mentioned? Yeah, his car is paid off. My car is a part of the $40,000 that I mentioned. How much? How much do I owe or how much is it worth? Both. Both. So I owe about $8,000 and I think it's worth...

$6,000. It's $7,000, I would say. Okay. So it's probably worth just keeping that and paying it off and driving it. Yeah. And I would like to add that my income, the amount, it's pretty new. I started making that income around August. Okay. So that's another reason we've been behind. So this is going to help. Yeah. But look, you guys are working extra jobs. What's he doing in school? Can he pause that while we get out of this mess?

Um, well, he's going on the Tennessee promise. So he gets free schooling basically if he doesn't quit.

Well, he's going to need to be working full-time as a student and full-time working because we can't sustain this as Vortex is with interest. We got to get rid of these payday loans. Yeah. You guys aren't even talking to each other other than to say hi, bye, and the budget meeting. You're working like crazy. You have got to do this. But if you get after it,

and you really work like crazy, get a true budget, and start knocking these debts off and getting yourself out of this, you can recover from this and change your life. But it's going to have to be super intense to start to chip away at this. Yeah. But hear me say it's doable. It's a great math problem. When you're making $100K, you've got $40K in debt. If you can throw $6K a month at this debt, it'll be gone in about six months. Yeah. Talking short-term sprint, can you do that?

We lost her. I mean, you know I'm here. I think it's just trying to up the income. That's not hard. I'm not really sure. That's part of the equation. Sweetheart, you are doing anything and everything. There are people that are looking for people to work all the time. This is not another career move. This is extra jobs, side hustles. You're doing everything. I'll tell you what I want to do. Hang on the line. We're going to get you a session, a free session on us with one of our financial coaches.

just to kind of help set this path forward so you can believe what George and I are telling you. I think that session is going to help you, so hang on the line. Austin will take care of that. You guys can do this. Get busy, though. This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by George Camel. We are here for you to answer your money questions, your work questions, and on and on. And we love coaching you up. So we'd love to hear from you. 888-825-5225. Okay, real estate reality here. Let's talk about this in the news all the time. The average interest rate for a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage, George, dropped...

dropped from 7.03 percent to 6.56 in the past month hey hey i mean that's nothing that's not nothing when we start to see rates like there were they were sniffing eight and you know we were just thought it was going to continue to go up and up and up yeah so if this trend continues george what happens what do you what do you see well a lot of people that have been on the sidelines that have been waiting trying to kind of time this market they may want to take advantage of these lower rates and the

That small drop in percentages, that can actually mean huge savings, talking about thousands and thousands of dollars over time. But here's the thing. It doesn't change our home buying advice. Only buy a house when you're ready. Whether the rate is 2% or 7% or more, buy a house when you're ready. Here's what that means in the Ramsey world. You're debt-free. You have no consumer debt. You have a full emergency fund of three to six months expenses, and you have a solid down payment. And I only recommend the 15-year fixed rate mortgage option.

which I know with current interest rates, you're like, dude, that's going to blow up my payment. Well, we don't want you to be house poor. And if more than a quarter of your take-home pay on a 15 years going towards the mortgage, you're not going to have enough money to, you know, do things like invest for retirement and upgrade the car and go on vacation and save for the kids college. And so that is the reason for those parameters, those guidelines. And so if you are in that market, you've been waiting on the sidelines, hoping, praying for the rates to take a dip, uh,

now's a good time to jump into the market and work with a pro. We call them Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agents, and they're handpicked by our team. They actually care about you and your financial goals, and they'll take good care of you. Yeah, absolutely. So, ramsaysolutions.com slash agents, ramsaysolutions.com slash agents to get connected to one of those pros who will take great care of you. And listen, it's going to be interesting to see.

What happens over the next quarter to two quarters in the housing market? Well, remember, we did the real estate reality check event, and people were freaking out that the whole market was going to crash. And we kept telling them, it's not going to crash. And here we are today. The market still has not crashed. In fact, home values are going up. And the reason is, is because inventory is still very, very low. Supply and demand, baby. It's going to be interesting to see how it shakes out.

As the housing industry goes, so goes the American economy. Just a fun little, if you look at historical, not headlines and all the crap you see on TikTok and the gram, I'm telling you historically how the housing industry goes is how the economy goes. So historically,

We're in this kind of an interesting situation with the American economy as it is, with inflation still stubbornly high, even though it's dropping a little bit, still above what the preferred rate of growth would be, which is about 2% inflation growth. We're still not seeing that. And so it's still squeezing Americans a lot. We're seeing credit card debt all-time high, consumer confidence rising.

You know, not great, starting to slow down a little bit. So what's going to give? Something's got to. We don't know, but here's what we do know. People who follow the Ramsey plan aren't stressed out over the economy. They just aren't. They're not that worried about interest rates. When you don't have a mortgage payment, you're definitely not worried about interest rates. That is true. So let's get to the phones. Steven is now joining us in Houston, Texas. Steven, how can we help? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's up?

Hey, so I'm a pretty new listener to you guys, and I started the Baby Steps like a week ago. We got our emergency fund, the $1,000 emergency fund set, and then we're obviously based at two, but I'm having trouble with the budget. We don't understand if we're supposed to...

Sure. So give me an example of something that would be unforeseen.

Like maybe a car repair or a house repair. I have a home warranty, and I don't even know if that's a smart move or not, but something like that. So when it comes to Baby Step 1, $1,000, that's meant to cover these kind of ankle biters. That's why Dave, you know, originally Dave's plan was get out of debt. And then he realized people would fall off the wagon trying to get out of debt because a $100 emergency would pop up throwing them off the plan. So that $1,000 is meant as just a starter emergency fund, and if something happens...

let's say it's more than a thousand dollars what would you do realistically you're going to pause those baby steps and you're going to save up and you're going to cash flow that expense and most of these expenses aren't going to be much more than a thousand bucks i mean the chances of something crazy happening a five thousand dollar emergency expense is uh those are going to be low chances in the next 18 months as you tackle your debt what's your household income

We make $110 combined gross. So if you paused everything, making $110, chances are you're going to be able to cash flow an emergency expense with the next paycheck or two. Yeah, the thing is I was adding up all my credit card and I have $810 of minimum payments every month. I know that's killing us.

So we want to pay this off, but that's the problem. Do I take every bit of extra money I have and put it in that, basically bring the account down to zero? Anything beyond your food, shelter, utility, insurance, all of that. Now, when we say zero-based budget, what that means is every dollar of income you have coming in has a job. It has an assignment. It doesn't mean you have zero dollars in the bank. So I would have a threshold in your bank account. For you, it might be $300. Okay.

And we don't go under $300. We budget down to $300 every month. Okay, okay. Yeah, because the budgeting program I use right now, it's kind of weird with that. But okay, I got you. Well, let me hook you up with EveryDollar. Have you tried that out? No, I haven't tried that one.

This is the only budgeting app you need. And a dimwit could use it. And so someone as smart as Steven can definitely use it. It's super easy to navigate. Our team made it very consumer friendly. And I'm going to hook you up with a year of the premium version. So you connect to your bank account, track transactions, use the paycheck planning tools that you know you're not going to run out of money and hang on the line. Austin will pick up. We'll gift that to you if you're willing to use it, Steven. By the way, there's no need to call me names to make a

point. I looked at you when I said dimwit and I didn't mean to. I mean, you did. I thought it was more than a cutting glance and I'm a little sensitive. I'm trying to use 1950s insults these days. Well, you know, I understand that, but you could have made your point without taking a shot at me. Fair point. I apologize. But he's right. If I can use it, anyone could use it. All right. Amanda's up next in Vancouver. Amanda, how can I help?

Hi, thanks so much for taking my call. I have a bit of a different question today, and it really ties into what you guys, your segment about just talking about the interest rates. My question is, should I buy my parents' house? I am concerned about the interest rates, but it is my family's home, and I'd like to be able to keep my parents in it. But I'm also afraid of mixing family and money. Oof. What happened with your parents? Wait a second. What is going on? Um,

Well, I live in a low cost of living area. I make a lot of money. I have no debt. I have a lot of extra income. I don't have a mortgage or anything. My parents live in an extremely high cost of living area. They've gotten themselves into quite a pickle with some crippling debt. So I thought I could buy their house and turn it around and rent it to them. It would be kind of a debt consolidation for them. But also I have a bit of savings. Maybe it'd be a good investment for me because, you know, in the Vancouver area, the real estate market is,

It could be a good investment for me anyways and kind of help them out. Okay, hold on. So let's stop for a second. Okay, it could be. It's not it could be. It either is or it isn't. If we take Franklin, Tennessee, George and I both know, we both live in Franklin, we know what neighborhoods would be an absolute good investment. So is that just the wording you're using or you're not quite sure if you were to even do this, that this is in fact a good investment for you?

I think it would be a good investment for me. My only concern is, yeah, the interest rates are, you know, not great right now. But you don't know that it's a good, is this a good neighborhood or not? This is a great neighborhood, good neighborhood, okay neighborhood. What is it? It's a good neighborhood. The house was built in the 80s and it's a family-friendly neighborhood. My huge worry is that you are solving nothing for them because their behavior and choices is what led them here and they're going to continue to make those choices even if you rent to them. Then they can't pay you rent.

So I think they need to accept the consequences of their decision as grown adults and go rent somewhere and rent something they can afford and clean up this mess. I think the reality is with their situation, they would never be able to afford to rent. But you can't handhold them the rest of their life. And that's what's going to happen here. There's no end game.

They need to change their situation by making more, spending less, getting out of debt. And you can help them do that with some tools and resources. But I would not step in as the savior here and try to do two birds, one stone, investing in real estate and trying to save my parents at the same time. They need to grapple with the decisions they've made. Even if it's a good investment and she can afford it. She's going to hold back her own financial future, renting at below market rate to them forever. I agree. That's why I brought that up. Very good point. She doesn't have money to buy her own place. Feels like she might do it anyway. Hope not. This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman, and I'm joined by George Camel. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Okay, so how many of you out there, whether you've been listening to us for a long time, just a little bit of time, or you're brand new, realize that there's so much going on in the financial world, whether it's credit cards, buying stuff, paying later,

cars, investing. There's so much out there where you feel like the game is stacked against you.

And you're kind of like a lot of anxiety going, I feel like they know more than I do. And everybody's doing this. And I want to win with money. Like think about your credit card, student loans, car loans, mortgages. How about all the different investing strategies that are out there? How about the marketing messages and all the things that are coming your way? Buy, buy, buy, buy, buy. And you're like, I just want to get out of the matrix. If that's you.

I'm very excited to tell you that my pal sitting right next to me just got this during the break. It is the official hardback first copy of his new book called Breaking Free from Broke, The Ultimate Guide to More Money and Less Stress. Now, let me just say this, okay?

Listen, Dave Ramsey's got the Baby Steps book, you know, the Total Money Makeover. Then you got the latest one, which is, you know, the Baby Steps Millionaire. But this is a very different book. And I'm going to say that it's very different in that you are getting right into what I believe is the matrix that traps people.

From everything from comparison to just messaging, that sounds like it's a good move. You've always been great at the traps and what trips people up. And I want you to know, if you're feeling broke or you're scared to become broke, you're getting ready to adult, this is the book.

that will help you become a millionaire just from simply not making dumb decisions that, let's be honest, most of us make. I said us. That means me and George and even Dave Ramsey. And so I think this is a great book, George, and that's my take on it. As I look at the chapters, I mean, here's what I want. I want to know, what do you think the reader's going to take from this if they actually read this?

It's one of those books where I want you to read the whole thing and you walk away just with this stupid grin on your face because you go, I know too much now. Ignorance was bliss. And now I know too much. And not only that, I'm confident in my financial future for the first time because I've cut through all the noise of all the ways I could invest. And do I do this? Do I get the house? And how do I actually live life without a credit score? Right.

And I walk people through, how can we turn wealth into just a game of patience? How do we walk through life with peace and joy and margin and self-control, knowing that we're on track, knowing that we're not going to fall for these traps anymore? And it's the book, you know, I wish I had.

When I was in my 20s, it's a great book, whether you're 25 or 55, because I write on a fifth grade level because that's how my brain works. I'm looking at it. It's funny. It's got a couple scratch and sniff pages. Riddled with research. There's 130 sources in there that really do deep dives and enough jokes that Ken might laugh.

You like the new book smell, don't you? Smells like money. That's what it smells like to me. Smells like fresh dollar bills. Well, you know, speaking of that, Ken, you mentioned broke and you want people to be millionaires. This is my story in here as well of how I went from broke to millionaire. The money mistakes I made, what I've learned in 10 years here at Ramsey, and the first two-thirds of the book are helping people understand...

How this matrix is stacked against them. How the system is designed to keep them broke, and then I show them a path out. So let's tell people, when it comes out, it's on pre-order right now. You can order it now and get it when it comes out. Give me the details. So this book launches on the streets January 16th, but if you pre-order before then, by January 15th,

It's $20 for the hardcover copy sent to you, but we're going to also include $100 worth of bonus items, including the e-book version, the enhanced audio book version, which I'm very excited about. The team has some exciting production elements we're adding to that, spicing it up. An online Q&A event, live stream we're doing in January. And for anyone that buys a book before or after, we're going to give you three months of every dollar premium on us. So that you can actually live out this plan. Even your face has got a little snark on it.

And so I expect we're going to have some snark in the book as well. And it's bright, bright orange. This is going to stand out in the crowd, Ken. That's the hope. All right. It's time we break free from broke. So you can get it at ramsaysolutions.com slash store. Get it for you. Get it for friends and family. This book is going to give people a lot of hope. That's my prayer for 2024. It is. And one little bonus is that if you're a small man, you can see a great outfit. You can wear denim too.

So George is doing it on the cover, just a little extra bonus. This is just proof the little man can get ahead in America today. He can. It starts with me. He can. You have done it. Two little men, by the way. I'm not much bigger than you. Thank you for making that clear to America. Yeah. People always ask how tall I am. I think what they're really asking is how short is he? Yeah. Which is a very different question. I get that a lot from people. They listen to you. They hear you. Some of you never see you. And they're always like, well, you're a lot shorter than I thought you would be.

Thank you very much. Heartful, but true. Just because I have a big personality. Come on. But I get that a lot from people, but it is what it is. All right, let's get to Justin in West Palm Beach, Florida. Oh, boy, wouldn't it be nice to be in West Palm sipping on a lemonade with Justin right now? The studio's going to have to do. Justin, what's going on? How are you guys doing? Well, not as good as you in West Palm, but we're going to press through.

All right. I think it should be pretty simple, but my wife's transitioning into a stay-at-home mom. And once we clear out this debt the next month, I'm wondering when we start investing the 15% take-home pay, do we split it 7.5% in my retirement and then 7.5% in hers? Or because she's not working, do we not put to her retirement? Great question. So you guys are in baby step two still? Yeah.

Yep. Then we should be done by the end of the year. Okay. And then you got baby step three, the fully funded emergency fund to save up for. Yep. But we're talking mid 2024, you'll be starting to invest 15%. Yep. Yep. Perfect. Yeah. I just, I'm an accountant, so I just think numbers. So you're thinking ahead. I love it. I'm excited for you guys to start building for that future. And when is she going to stay home? It started this week. Oh, wow. Okay. How old's the child?

Uh, four and a half months. Oh my goodness. So exciting. Have you had a good night's sleep in a while? Uh, no, like a month ago. It feels like forever. Yeah. Yeah. You'll get through it. Trust me. I feel that. Oh yeah. It's worth it. George is on the same bus. You're about a month ahead of us and it's a lot, but I'm excited for you guys. Okay. So financially, are you guys still on track to pay off debt aggressively and you still got a great income?

Yep. Yep. And I think with year end bonus, it should be all cleared out before the first of the year. So cool. Excellent. So you mentioned 15%. That's going to be of your gross income instead of your take home. So what is your household income going to be now that she's staying at home? 120,000. Awesome. And so if you start doing the math, 120 times that 0.15, that's going to turn into $18,000 a year.

And so to make matters easier, we'll divide that per month. You're going to do $1,500 a month is what it amounts to. And so the way we look at it is match beats Roth beats traditional. So if you have an employer match, we'll start there. Then you can fully fund a Roth IRA. And you do have the option to fund a spousal Roth IRA, even if your spouse stays at home.

Okay. So that's something I would encourage you to do depending on all of your options, but both of you having a maxed out Roth IRA every year is a great thing to do, a great habit to get into. Okay. So I split it between my retirement and her retirement, even though she's not working right. Perfect. So look at all of your options. And as part of that, you may end up funding her Roth IRA if you still have more Roth to go before you go back to a traditional. Do you have a 401k at work?

Yes. Is there a Roth option? Yep. We've been doing Roth before we started and stopped it currently. Okay. Yeah, but I wouldn't worry about splitting it 7.5 and 7.5. I would focus on we need to invest $18,000 this year and we're going to filter it through this Match Beats Roth Beats Traditional. And that could turn into funding that Roth IRA every year. But way to go, man.

Gotcha. Thank you. Can I throw one more thing on life insurance? We got 10 seconds. Go. Speed round. Do we do life insurance on her if she's not working or no? Yes. Absolutely. Dude, if something happened to her, God forbid, you need Mary Poppins. It's going to cost you $150,000 to hire 17 people. So absolutely get 10 to 12 times her income. That's probably going to be, you know, I'm going to go, let's say she would be making $50,000. I'd get $500,000 on her today.

Interestingly, you mentioned Mary Poppins because I always got the idea that she was free. She just kind of flew in one day and helped out. Well, not in today's economy. I agree. I agree. Wow. Good stuff. Very serious stuff. Absolutely. Life insurance is a must. Connect with our friends at Zander. They can help you get this in place. Zander Insurance. It's who we use. They're great. Term life only. That's exactly right. Good stuff there. Thanks for the call. We'll talk soon, Justin. Hopefully you'll hear some good stories. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me this hour. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. Our scripture of the day is Hebrews 4.12. For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any double-edged sword. It penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Our quote from Jack London, you can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.

I like that. How about that? It's aggressive, but it's good advice. I like that. Pound it, you know? It's like whack-a-mole. Get after it. That's another throwback. There it is. See, I can't help myself. Whack-a-mole and toll-free calls. That's what you get. You know what you could do? You could put in your own little time phrases. You know, where's your stuff from the 2000s? I'm not that relevant. I just don't think they said things interestingly.

That's true. We've gotten a whole lot less interesting as a society. All right, let's go to Greensboro, North Carolina. Joshua is there. Joshua, how can we help? Hello, George and Kim. Thank you so much for your time and having me on the show. You bet. What's up? I guess I'll dive straight into my question. What are my next best steps in my career to help me get towards my dream job? And I can give you some background. Yeah, tell me what the dream job is. Give me the background.

All right. Well, I'll try to keep it very brief because I know I'm on time, but I'll give you a quick background. You're doing great. I discovered Ramsey in my sophomore year in high school through y'all's high school curriculum and fell in love with y'all's plan. Since then, I've been through FPU and continue to learn from Ramsey Solutions books and various shows on the Ramsey Network. Y'all have basically just consumed my life, and I've dedicated my life to sharing y'all's plan of hope with everyone I can, which led me to my goal-engineering job.

I've had multiple people tell me that I will never make it, but I've also had a lot of cheerleaders in my life that encouraged me that my dream job is possible. And I truly believe through hard work, my faith in Jesus Christ and my passion for AMSI, I can obtain my dream job as an AMSI personality.

Oh, the dream job is the Ramsey personality. He buried the lead. I didn't see that coming. I did not see it coming. Okay. So your question is, what are the steps to take to try to do the kind of thing that we do? Is that right?

Yes, sir. All right. Well, how about we tag team this, George? Sure. I'll give one, you give one, and we see if we run out of them. That's great. How does that sound? All right, first, I'm going to start, and I'm going to say the first thing is you're going to have to be equal parts persistent. That means just getting after it, trying, trying, trying, trying, trying, trying, trying, putting in the work. I mean...

Like when no one's looking, you're doing the little things, you are doing everything it takes to be able to develop a voice to speak with conviction, to speak with passion, but to also speak with some expertise. And so you're going to have to have equal parts persistence, right?

and equal parts patience. That's where you got to start. That's a mindset at 17. I don't care if you're 17, 27, or 37, you want to do what we do. This is not easy to get to the spot. Am I right, George? I know our stories are very similar. So I start with that. Patience, persistence, equal parts. That's the mindset getting going. Yeah. And another piece of this equation is, you know,

I can't guarantee you anything in life. I didn't think I'd be here, to be honest with you, Joshua, on this side of the microphone. Neither did I, man. You know, miracles happen. For both Ken and I, it took a whole lot longer than we thought it would and we would have liked it. You know, this could be a decade journey for you. And so it's going to be hard. And the good news is if it's what you're called to do, you're just going to get up and do it anyways. And you're going to have that podcast even if four people are listening and three of them are your family.

And so you've got to want it that badly. But there's some tactical things I want to tell you that you could start with that will get you on that path. And number one is following the principles. So you're already doing that, it sounds like, correct?

Yes, sir.

beginning to develop a social media presence. Maybe you start creating financial content and you start a YouTube channel or whatever that looks like for you. And you start speaking at your churches and your local community and you get any opportunity to get on a stage and practice and have some at-bats. And it's going to be bad at first and it'll probably stay bad for a long time before you get any good at it. And that was my story. Ken was a prodigy probably since teenager, but he had some natural broadcasting skills that I didn't have.

But I say that all to say, you got to just start doing it regardless of Ramsey. And so it's great to have your eye on the prize, but I want you leading this and being a financial coach and helping others, whether it's here or in your hometown. Yeah. I'll just add another one here that a lot of people don't think about. And that is you've got to figure out what your unique style is. So-

You know, you look at the great music artists, you know, they were all inspired by somebody. So you think about the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Garth Brooks, think of some of the most iconic artists out there. They're all influenced by other artists, but they, while inspired by it, they put their own spin on it.

And I think it's really crucial for anybody that wants to get into this, whatever you want to call this space, the content and providing space, personality, you know, whatever influence. I hate that word. But I think you've got to go, what is my unique offering as it relates to,

My style, what I'm good at doing. George is good at doing it one way. Maybe Ken's doing it, is good at doing it another way. Don't forget that beyond the messaging and the cuts at the plate, at some point, there's something unique about you and you need to settle into that and not try to be a knockoff version of somebody else. Be that unique version. And I think that's the advice I would give there is that with all of that, you still got to settle down into, this is how I'm wired. And last piece is,

And I want to make this to the large audience. If you're trying to start a business and you're looking for that idea, you're trying to start a podcast, YouTube channel, whatever, make what moves you. So for authors that want to write, I always tell them, write what you would read. If you're writing a song, write what you would sing.

Because there's a lot of people out there who have the same taste you have. But if you try to figure out what everybody else is doing and go over there, you're going to be really frustrated. Make what moves you, and you're going to turn out, you're going to be okay. And that's the journey. But it is a long journey. And I love what you said, George. You've got to try a lot of stuff too. I don't think you can start soon enough to write, to speak, to try to broadcast. Just try it and just see, where am I at on all this? I remember the first time I did radio, I showed up.

And my pulse was through the roof. I bought my way on to a local radio station in the Atlanta area. And I had done a lot of speaking and been on stage before, but this was a total different ballgame. You've got all this stuff around you, and the producer's in my ear going, 10, 9, you know, and he's like, you're live, and the light comes on, and it's just like, ah!

You know, it was just an unbelievable pucker moment. And you've got to learn how to handle stuff like that. That's a lot of pressure under the spotlight. How does that hit you, Joshua? I'm curious. Oh, I think I put him on hold. He's still there. Oh, he's there. Joshua, are you there? Yes, sir. Does that help? I really appreciate it. Yes, sir. I do have a second. If time allows, I do have a second part to my question. All right, real quick because we've got about a minute.

All right. What can I do? Because I unfortunately had to quit my job last week due to illegal activity. I was calling mainly to see if there's anything I can do right now, me still living at home. So having more of like a flexible lifestyle.

plan to work with since I don't have that many expenses, what's the best option for me to do right now, career and job wise to gain experience? Well, so if you're 17 and you just need an hourly job, I would be looking to work at a radio station, television station. You know, if you work for a local organization where there's writers involved and you're just some type of, get in the room is my point.

with people that are doing what we're doing. I think that would be my first step. But you're 17, you've got plenty of time, just go get a job that replaces the job that you had. My goodness, illegal activity. I want to ask more, but we don't have time. But I'm glad you got out of there, Joshua. Hey, if you're working in a place where there's illegal activity...

Go ahead and quit. That's one red flag. Yikes. Probably a lot more where that came from. Yeah. Wow. Great question. When you think back on it, George, it's crazy to think,

where you can end up if you just stay with it and you did that persistence is key it was a nine-year journey for me how long was it for you it was an eight-year journey for me i believe i had six jobs here and uh here i am that's what i want people to hear we've do we are very blessed and dave believed in us and gave us a shot but i will say this we both stuck with it and didn't quit and it doesn't happen overnight

And that's the biggest myth out there. The overnight success doesn't exist. George Campbell, my good pal. Great show today. Thank you. James Childs, our fearless leader and all the guys in the booth. Thank you. Thank you, America and our live studio audiences here today. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey folks, Dave here. You want to hear even more life-changing content from Ramsey? Download the Ramsey Network app so you can catch all your favorite shows all in one place like the Ramsey Show, Smart Money Happy Hour, and the Dr. John Deloney Show. You'll get real talk about life, relationships, money, and your career. Plus, the app lets you browse by topic like debt, business, or selling your home. Get the content you want whenever and wherever you want to listen.

Download the Ramsey Network app today.