Learning To Set Boundaries With Family
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

The one and only Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. You jump in, we will talk about you right in front of you. Kathy is going to start us off today. Kathy is over in Austin, Texas. Hi, Kathy, how are you? Great, thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up?

So I've heard you all advise against using credit cards in favor of debit cards or cash. So my question is, why shouldn't my husband and I take advantage of getting credit card points for travel expenses that are required for work but are going to be reimbursed by the employer? So your employer is so poor they require you to advance them for your own travel? No, sir. Okay.

Well, why do they require you to advance them for your own travel? You're traveling on behalf of an employer and they're not paying for it in advance? Why are they making you pay for it for them? Well, that's the established protocol. Yeah. Why? I don't know. We haven't asked them. You understand that if they decide not to pay you one month, that those are your credit cards.

This is true. And you understand that I'm the guy that's been counseling and coaching people for 35 years, so I'm the guy that had the guy walk in with $11,000 on his Amex that was supposed to be reimbursed, but when he went to the office that day, there was a padlock on the door, and they had filed Chapter 11. He got nada. He had $11,000 on his Amex. Amex didn't care if his company had gone broke. They wanted their money. Understandable. Hmm. Yeah. It's kind of a problem, isn't it?

For him, absolutely. For you, too. Why are you different? Well, we haven't experienced that same situation that you just described. I know, but you're exposed to that exact same risk. This is true. And all for an airline mile. It's almost impossible to use. So I think if you're willing to take that risk, I'd be very scared about it.

It is standard in corporate America. Somehow corporate America has conned its employee base into taking a loan on their behalf with the promise of repayment and taking the risk for that and acting like it's no big deal. But it's a real deal. I've noticed it many, many times going sideways on people. The other thing people do is they run up stuff on their credit card.

Uh, cause they're just not watching. That's not reimbursable. And so they end up with a reimbursement check. That's less than a balance. That's right. Yeah. You could, you could spend something on that credit card and think, Oh, I'll get reimbursed for this. But Becky down in accounting might not think so. And so you're on the hook for that, but you got an airline mile, but you got your airline mile.

And when you use a debit card, the strangest thing happens. You pay more attention because it's like real money. So here's the deal, Kathy. A couple things. Number one, when you use a credit card, you are likely to spend it to spend more than when you use a debit card, period. Tons of research showing that because it doesn't have the same friction, marketers call it, in your brain. A lot more. So your chances of spending more are higher, right?

Where you're doing it on behalf of an employer hoping for reimbursement, your chances of making a mistake are higher. Obviously, you don't think that any of this applies to you, but it does. It does. And so you're just more susceptible to risk and to problems. And then the third thing is this, and I think the most compelling argument is this. I have never met a single millionaire that says, Dave, you know,

I made it all on my airline miles. That was my breakthrough. My financial difference, the difference maker in my financial plan was

I took a billion-dollar company that studies consumer behavior in depth, and I was smarter than them. I whipped them. I didn't spend more, and I got airline miles. And I actually used the airline miles. I actually gamed the system, and I became a millionaire because of it. Never met one, not in 30 years of doing this. Well, let me take it a step further. I know a lot of middle-class broke people who think they're gaming the system.

and are strutting around acting like they got something with an airline mile, but they really didn't at the end of the day. I'll take it a step further, Dave. I don't like supporting companies that their entire model for having revenue is built on failure.

Failure to pay, failure to pay on time. I don't like that. I like companies that offer a service that really would like to help you and they get revenue from giving you something or helping you do something or giving you a service. I can't support a company where the only way they make money is by people failing to pay, failing to pay on time. That's the top seller right there. I don't like that. The way they get them in the churn is they offer an airline mile. And oh, by the way, Consumer Reports says 78%.

of the airline miles are never redeemed. So I know Kathy's maybe in the 22%, but, and she may get a hundred percent reimbursement and she may never overspend, but you are playing with snakes, Kathy. Look, everybody says I pay my card off every month, but all I know is this, there's a trillion dollars.

in credit card debt. So somebody's lying. Yeah, and it's up right now. Yeah, somebody's lying. And I gotta tell you, the number of people that we've coached out of credit card debt over the years that said, you know, it all started because I was trying to get a free airline ticket. And here's the other one. This one's humorous to me. This is not, Kathy didn't bring this up, but we'll just keep on this subject for a minute. The Discover points, you get two points back. Yeah. So you get 2% back. 2%.

So here's the deal. You spend $100 to get $2. Big whoop. Now, explain to me how that causes wealth. Ugh. That you, in order to get $2, you spend $100. Yeah. What math class did you people go to? The school of the broke. Yeah. I'm telling you. That's the kind of stuff that's out there. And so what I studied and the way we came up with the process that we use here is we

Common sense that grandma had. And I studied where companies are being predatory and stay away from snakes. And I studied wealthy people and I find out what wealthy people do. Yep. And yes, some wealthy people, Kathy, do have a credit card and some of them do pay it off every month.

But none of them claim that that was somehow a financial breakthrough. That's right. And you're already spending more mental calories on this than it's worth, even if you're getting full redistribution on this. So...

You ask why, that's why. You spend more, you're more likely on a travel expense account to spend money that's not reimbursable because, oh, I'll get my airline miles back. Oh, I'll buy two instead of three. I'll buy three instead of two because I get my airline miles back. And so you're more likely to spend more. You're higher risk when you are loaning this corporate America characters your money, hoping they're going to pay you back each month. Scary stuff.

And we have seen the times that they didn't. You can't just assume. Assuming will get you in trouble. You know what they say about it. Yeah, I've heard. This is The Ramsey Show. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Nikki is in Montgomery, Alabama. Hi, Nikki. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

Okay, we have just recently found out that my husband's boss is actively trying to sell the company.

We're the only ones in the company that know this right now simply because my husband is kind of the financial guy who was going to be the one to gather all that financial information to potential buyers. So we do have a heads up, which is a blessing. The boss has also indicated that we would be getting a severance of about $200,000. Of course, taxes will have to come out of that.

My question is, after taxes, how should we manage this knowing we're going into a season likely of no income? Well, if you know that you're going into a season of likely no income, can you prepare on the front end so that you don't have a season of likely no income? Well, with him being the financial person of the company, we just kind of feel like it's the right thing to do.

to stay until the last day. I'm not suggesting not staying necessarily. But why not go ahead and have a job lined up that after the last day you start the next day? Well, we have started looking. We don't know if this will be in 60 days or six months. We're just not sure yet on that. Yeah, but you can go ahead and get some leads in the pipeline that you tighten up as you do know.

Right. And we're working on that. He's already had a few interviews. Nothing real substantial yet, but he has had a few interviews. That's great. So he's the CFO. Right. Okay. And how large a company? Um...

I'm not real sure. Just in our discussions with these brokers who are kind of, I guess, the middleman on trying to get this sale completed, we're in the very beginnings of it. But these brokers have indicated this would be tens of millions of dollars. Yeah, okay. So they've got how many employees? Yeah.

My guess is probably $250,000 to $300,000. So you think he'll fire all of them? I don't know. We don't really know how that's all going to shake out. Okay. All right. Well, in order for me to stay, if I'm your husband, you're going to have to sit down with his boss tomorrow and just say, you know, I'm willing to stay with you and help you complete this transaction like we've been talking about.

But my only requirement is that you put the severance package in writing in order to do that and that you keep an open line of communication with me so that I have good timing issues so I can line up my next thing to line up with this. If you surprise me since you're not telling anybody else and you decide you're not going to tell me something and I get surprised, I'm going to leave you with this.

I totally agree with that. Your husband's obligation to him goes away if he's not willing to, A, put the severance in writing, B, put a promise to an open line and perform to an open line of continuous communication about timing and probability and whatever. We're not asking for any...

Of the $10 million. We're not asking for any of that. That's not yours. That's his. He owns it. But he does owe you, if your husband's going to stick with him, he does owe him communication and the severance in writing. Otherwise, I'm going to go ahead and leave now. Yeah, because where's the negative side of his boss doing that for him? I mean, I can't think of a negative. There's no downside if he's really going to do it all. Right. Okay. But this guy is secretive and doesn't want to tell anybody. And...

You know, you don't need to blow off all your customers and all your employees. I agree with that. But he's really, really holding this close. I mean, the phrase that scared me, Nikki, is when you said the only reason we found out was because he needed my husband's help, meaning that this guy really isn't discussing this with his senior leadership team, and he really owes them a discussion.

Right. That's how I'm interpreting that is that he needed my husband. Otherwise, you would have known nothing. Otherwise, you would have known nothing. So the other senior people are going to be hung out hot and dry. That's what you're telling me. And so that scares me dealing with this guy. This guy's

He's hardcore. So I'm going to be a little hardcore back and just go, you're going to communicate with me and you're going to put the severance package in writing. And then you can keep working the interviews and line up something where you start the next day and the $200,000 severance package actually becomes a signing bonus then. Right. It's extra money. Now, should we get this $200,000, of course, less taxes? How do you think we should manage that? Okay.

If you have a new job that's equal, you just throw it on the baby steps wherever you are. Okay. Well, basically, we're debt-free. We have just a tiny mortgage, like $40,000 on our mortgage. Okay. Would you say, hang on to that? If you have the new job, I'd pay off the mortgage the day you got the severance. Mm-hmm.

Okay. But if you don't, then I'm going to hold on to cash like crazy until we land the new job, and then I'm going to pay off the mortgage and do some investing and some generosity and some enjoyment. After going through the stress of this, you guys may want to go on a really nice high-end cruise for two weeks. And you should. Oh, yeah. That sounds great. Can I go too? Yeah.

That's great. I'm not talking about the Walmart on the seas. I'm talking about the good stuff, okay? The good stuff, yes. Sounds good to me. Hey, thanks for calling in, Nikki. Good stuff. Hunter is in Houston, Texas. Hey, Hunter, what's up? Hey, Dave and Jade, how are you all doing? Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help?

I am 26 years old, exploring a company change in the residential construction field. It would be good for the debt paying off, but I'm not sure if it's a great move for the career. Why would it be a bad move for the career?

So the current company I work for is a high-end custom construction residential homes, totaling $63,000 take-home. I have no benefit except the gas card that pays me $6,000 annually. I just received a 5% raise last week after 10 months of the company, but I'm still underpaid for my industry. Due to this, I've picked up a side hustle, giving me an extra $8,500 annually. All in, I'm about $77,500 take-home. What's the new guy offering?

The new guy at the Fortune 500 company offering $90,000 to $95,000 base plus bonus. That's not a good career move. Why? My gut tells me, sir, I'm building three custom homes totaling out to $11 million, and something tells me if I'm busting my butt in front of people that can afford this kind of stuff, when it's my turn to start my own company, I might just land in the right network. Nah.

You don't think so? No. You're 26. Yes, sir. Nobody's hiring you to build an $8 million house. You're right. Sorry. I don't mean to be mean, but... It's okay. I'm just being truthful. I like you. I think you're a sharp guy.

And but, you know, I'm thinking, you know, in five years, maybe. But in five years, you've lost two hundred thousand dollars of income not working for these other folks. So, right. Yeah. And you stated to me that even after a five percent raise, you're still underpaid by the industry. It's disturbing. Why would they do that? Yeah.

Yes, sir. I agree. There's something bothering you about your current company because of the statement they're making by underpaying, and it feels like you know they know they're underpaying. Mm-hmm. Is that right? Yes, sir. If there's other reasons to not change, maybe. But I think I'd go ahead and take the other gig. You've got plenty of time to become a custom builder, and you'll build up your own network. But working for free or cheap...

and somebody taking advantage of you is what you're talking about, that doesn't sound appealing to me. No, I'm walking. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Um, and, um, since you are our marketing plan, uh, we need your help. Thank you very much. Todd is with us. Todd is in Miami. Hi, Todd. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Oh, Dave, thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Uh, I have a problem with, uh, parents saying no to parents. Uh,

I did your course. I did it back in 2016. It was hard. One of the worst things I went to, I didn't even know I was in debt. So I want to thank you for that. Sure. I built up a nice little cushion. Bought me some income properties. Everything cooked in the crock pot. Did everything I was supposed to do, you know? Mm-hmm.

And my mother's husband passed, no life insurance, knowing that they were together for 30 years. Now she's in my hands because my other siblings can't do anything. So she wants a nice condo. I get it. I have a real estate license also. So it was kind of easy, but it wasn't easy because you have to put 20% down. There's a 30. Who has to put 20% down?

You? We did. Who's we? Well, I bought it for her, but I put my name on the team. Okay, so you bought a condo for your mom to live in. Why? Why couldn't she live in her own? She didn't. That's what she wanted. How old are you? 52. That's what she wanted. Oh, yeah. Well, I don't care what she wants. And why are you saying it like, if she says it, that's what it is. You're 52 years old. Yeah. How old is mom?

75 in good health. Yeah, and she has absolutely no money? You know, when he passed, I said, well, okay, well, this is good. I mean, they lived well. And I thought automatically you had some kind of, I just, the way they were going and the presences and the things, I thought that was already taken care of. Does she have any money?

Well, she has two pensions and social security, but it's not enough to cover the expenses. They just went up on HOA fees over there. Uh, and we had to put six months in reserve. So that's like $6,000. So, uh, and I want my kitchen done and I want the, I said, so that's your mom talking. That's your mom talking. Yeah. Yeah.

I bought the book. I just told your producer, the guy, I read the book two times. I don't know. I'm struggling. I said no yesterday. Which book? Boundaries. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So the answer is no to all of these things. You got to start learning how to say no. Yeah. So how much is the condo? I'm not getting any phone calls or anything. I don't care. How much is the condo payment? It was a, the condo. Payment. The monthly payment.

uh 972. okay and she's supposed to be paying that right and she has two pensions and social security so she can pay a 900 payment right good good okay and you know and the h.o but there's no but i know the only button i want to know you doing this for your mom what's the implication financially for you

Well, my kitchen is on down substantially. I wanted to buy some more income properties because I want to retire. I work in construction and I don't want to be, you know, I'm doing things to change my whole career. What's your net worth, Todd? My net worth gets to two properties. I have about $200,000 equity. One

But about now, $50,000 in savings. I have a small pension from a couple of government jobs I have. What do you make a year? About $125,000. You do not have the money to help your mother any further. I know. I know. Not like this. You don't have enough money. You didn't call me up with a $10 million net worth. If it was chump change and you wanted to go fix a kitchen, fine.

But she's basically completely out of control emotionally. And I don't know where you got or she got the idea that you're obligated to give her a condo and fix the kitchen and, and, and, and, and. Now, when people don't respect boundaries, and Henry Cloud talks about in the book Boundaries, and then you set a boundary, please don't expect them to accept it graciously. So I suspect her little spoiled self's pretty pissed off at you. Yeah.

Yes, Terry. Yeah. So, oh, well. Oh, well.

I know that's right. I'm sorry. I'm back on when you said, and she said she needs a nice, you know, is almost making these demands on you. Have you said to her, Mom, you know, I'm doing the best I can with my money. I want to help you get set up. I got you into a condo. You can afford it. And if you can't live with that, then I guess you'll need to move and I'll sell the condo. But I'm willing to let you live here. I've already done this much and I just can't do any more. And...

I can't. I can't. No, you really can't. You don't have any money. You don't have enough money. No. Not at this age. And I was doing well. Not any age. I mean, you don't have enough money. It's a math thing. And so you don't make $600,000 a year and have $10 million. That's not your numbers. And you know the reason you called her is you know she's weird and out of control, right? I know. Yeah.

I mean, she's your mom. I'm sorry to say that, but I mean, what she's doing is whacked. So you just got to smile and go, nah, done all I can do. Sorry, mom. Love you, but not do anymore. My love for you does not indicate that I have to be out of control, nor am I at an age or a net worth where I take orders from people. Are you the only kid, Todd?

No, but I'm the go-to person for the whole family. I've said no like three times this year, and I don't get any more phone calls. That's all right. Keep saying no. It's good practice. Yeah, you just got to build your muscle, and she'll figure it out eventually. She'll understand that no actually means no. It's a complete sentence.

Sad. I'm sorry, honey. It's hard when it's your mom. But she's being whack, dude. Yeah, she's out of control. That's whack. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Delaunay today for 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Delaunay. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're talking about your life and your money. It is a free call, 888-825-5225. Stephen is in New Orleans. Hi, Stephen. How can we help?

Yes, my wife and I are navigating a family tragedy and have recently gotten a reasonable check to deal with as well. And I was hoping to get an outside opinion on what we should do with it. Okay. Tell us what's going on.

The check is from a two-year battle over a homeowner's insurance claim. A couple of large hurricanes came through Louisiana and damaged our home, and it's a $70,000 check. We have very little debt. And two months ago, our five-year-old son died. And it's very difficult to know

What to do. It's difficult to breathe. It's nearly impossible. Yeah. What happened to your son, huh? My son was born with a series of heart defects. He had to have an open-heart surgery when he was five months old and had to have a second one last October that we knew was coming. And it was supposed to last...

for, we were hoping for decades, but unfortunately, after the surgery, he, his heart function took a dive, and we got him on the heart transplant list, but he didn't make it that long. I'm so sorry. Yeah, he fought a long time, didn't he? He was in the ICU for five months, and yeah, he won a hell of a fight. What was his name?

James Edward Cochran. James? No, Cain. Cain, okay. Cain. Okay, wow. Wow. Stephen, I'm so sorry. So I can't even imagine, you know, I can't breathe, and I just met you a minute ago. I can't even imagine being in your old situation. What I tell folks to do, and this is from decades of doing this, is anytime you're in a situation where there's a tragedy happening,

The loss of a loved one primarily. Try not to make any big decisions while you can't breathe. And your memories will always be there and the pain will always be there, but your mind will clear over the coming months. The fog will start to lift. And right now you're just walking along and you see something or you hear something and it activates and a wave hits you right now. Is that right? Yeah.

That's exactly right. Yeah. That'll happen less and less and less, and it's not because you're going to forget him. We don't want anybody to do that. It's just because you're managing through the grief process. But no one is thinking no one.

If Dr. John Deloney has two PhDs and one of them is in counseling, were he facing this, he would not be thinking clearly. It takes the best of minds and brains and puts a fog on them to go through what you all are going through. So we always tell folks, if you can, try doing nothing wrong.

with it that is a big money expense so for instance if someone calls and uh had a lady call the other day had been married 50 years and her husband passed away and she got a six hundred thousand dollar life insurance check and she said what do we do i said well it's been two weeks you're not doing anything i want you to park this in a high yield savings account and then six months from now when you can start to breathe a little bit better

Your mind will be a little bit clearer. We can talk about it or even a year from now. And so if you don't need, it sounds like you don't have any debt. You said except a little bit and on the house and, and I'm sure you guys are zombie mode, robot mode, whatever you call it, going back to work, trying to reach, you know, restart lives. And are you back to work or are you still out?

My, well, I quit my job, uh, two years ago and got back in school. And our plan was that I would stay home with him and do school while my wife worked. And this has left me, I, I am still not working the prospect of trying to go out and find a job and meet people. Um,

Usually, some days that it sounds okay, most days I can't do that. Yeah, I understand. My wife is a little bit different. She still works. She was kind of established at her job, so she finds a little bit of solace going in when she can, when she wants to. Well, I would be working with someone to help me walk through the grief.

And they can help you figure out the timing of plugging back in because there's a positive element to plugging back in. It's not punishment. And it's not disrespectful to your son to go on and have a life. And so you're going to do that. And you're going to do that in reasonable timing, and you're going to do that. But in the meantime, if you guys can make your bills, and I guess you can off of your wife's income, I'm going to just take the $70,000 and park it in a CD for six months.

And just cry for six months and get through the get through the worst of this. And, yeah, get your new your new reality, the new career saddle and climb into it. And, you know, I got to tell you, January is going to look a lot different than June. Mm hmm.

It is. It is. And again, it's not disrespecting your son, his memory by any stretch of the imagination. But but the best thing you can do is to be healthy.

and to walk the path to get healthy and to part of that's being plugged back in and so if you're working she's working we're working a plan we're looking back into the future again we're not living in a dark cloud in January or less of a dark cloud then you're going to be able to make much better decisions so try not to do anything with big money or big money decisions for six months at least I like a year but at least six months and but you know I'm so sorry man

I can't even imagine, but I am going to encourage you to lean into the grieving process and maybe even get somebody to talk to about that. It won't hurt anything at all because as bad as it sucks, the only thing that sucks worse is for you to still be sitting in exactly the same place six months from now, and that's not okay for you. I want you to have a better life than that, but boy, I can't imagine how sad. I just can't get my head around it.

Hey, thanks for the call. If we can help further, Stephen, you call us anytime. We're here for you. So there's an element, Jay, that we talk about here all the time for the listener out there to us talking to Stephen. They're listening in, 20 million plus of them. Anytime you're in a trauma situation, the brain shuts down.

Dr. Deloney talks about this. He does. Like, for instance, during COVID, we had Dr. Deloney on every day telling people, okay, you're in a weird situation. A whole bunch of people are freaking out. You remember how nasty people got during COVID? They were

mean. Man. They were scared. Going off. Because your brain shuts down all the critical thinking skills when you're in trauma. It floods the chemicals over the critical. So if you're standing in the middle of the interstate and you hear a brr and there's a horn coming at you and you're like, God, I'm about to die with an 18-wheeler, your brain does not have time to say, well, let's discuss what will happen if the 18-wheeler, which weighs a whole lot more, continues to come at 74 miles an hour and impacts your body of 160 pounds while

What will the physics of that be? Your brain does not have time to do that. So your brain naturally shuts down in a traumatic situation and says, get out of the way! And your most primitive part kicks in, the lizard brain, we call it. And so anytime you're in trauma, you don't make big decisions because your lizard brain is making the decisions. Your critical thinking skills are shut off. So don't make big decisions in those situations.

And we all have different things that cause that to happen to our brain. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work.

that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Greg is in Sacramento. Hey, Greg, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you. Sure. What's up?

Well, I, my adult son had an event two years ago and which is heart stopped and he had little to no blood flow for 15 to 30 minutes or so. And as a result, he suffered a brain injury and, um, was in the hospital for, uh, six months and they, but the amazing thing is he survived and he's actually doing remarkably well, uh, even though they didn't expect him to survive. Um,

He's still in recovery, but he's hoping to be able to work and live on his own again, and hopefully within a year or so. But he did incur a lot of medical debt, given that he's not working yet, and he had some debt before that. Fortunately, the hospital itself forgave $2.5 million, for which we're extremely grateful. So he had no insurance? No, that was with insurance. I mean, the insurance covered...

whatever they covered, and then the hospital said the total bill was $2.5 million. Yeah, but they got some money out of these. They got a lot of that from insurance. They got some money. They got a lot of that from insurance. Yeah. And then they forgave the rest. That's very nice. Okay. Right. Yeah, we're grateful for that. But he does still have about $45,000 in medical debt, and that's to about 30 different providers. Okay.

Additionally, he had, I think, about 15K in personal debt prior to that. Most of that's all in collections right now. And I'm just trying to, I'd like to know how I can best help him deal with the debt. So how's he doing with the brain injury? What is he back? Is he 70% back, 89% back? How's he doing? Well, it's hard to tell. In some areas, he's probably...

He's probably 100%, but in other areas he's got difficulties. He's taking a course at a junior college right now, and he's actually doing really well on the course, but it's hard for him. He says it takes me a lot longer, and it's very draining physically on him. How old is he? But anyway, he's doing well. He's actually 39. Wow. How old are you?

So you see, starting over, kind of. I'm 67. Okay. What does your wealth position look like? We're in pretty good shape. We've got some... Did you ask about my position? Yes, sir. What's your net worth? Oh, if I count the house, probably $2,000.

$200, $250, and then 401k about $250. Okay. So half a million to a million dollars. All right, good. Something like that. And actually, we started following you in 2014 because my daughter introduced us to your show, and she actually used to groom your dog. Oh, wow. Okay. And that's how she met you guys and then told...

told us you should follow this and so we it changed it changed things for us okay so can you help him financially um well we have been in that he's living with us and we did cover everything everything for him and all of his uh like medical co-pays and things up until he just started getting ssdi a little bit ago and now he's um paying for for most of that um

Okay, so how can we help you? Well, I'd like to know how best to deal with his debt that's gone into collections. He has some money saved up since he's been getting SSDI. How much? And he's hoping to get RRSO. About $15,000. Okay, you can settle $45,000 for $15,000 on bad medical debt.

So now if he has the emotional strength, if he doesn't, then you help him with that. Yeah, he really does. Okay. He can sign over the rights for you to discuss this account. And here's how this goes. You call the collector that $1,000 is owed to, and you say, he does not have anything.

but 25% of what is owed. So we are offering you 25% of what is owed, and if you do not take that, you're going to get nothing. So it's up to you. Do you want to do this or not? No, we're going to give you 25 cents on the dollar, or you're going to get nothing. What do you want to do? No. No.

We're going to give you. You're going to have to repeat it because these people are dumb. Okay? Over. You're going to have to just stand there and just over and over and over and over. If they want to get nasty, say, no, we're not going to have nasty conversations. You're going to get to talk to a Dalton. Okay?

I'm going to push that little end button on my phone if you get nasty. But we're going to do 25 cents on the dollar. And if you don't want to do that, I'll call you next month and see if you've changed your mind. And until you want to do that, you're not getting anything. Oh, and by the way, you're not having electronic two things. Under no circumstances do you give them money until you have the agreed amount in writing. Right. And under no circumstances do they have electronic access to accounts.

So they cannot have, give me your checking account number. We'll just draft it. Absolutely not. They will clean him out. They lie. Yeah. You're going to have to call a couple of times to get this locked in. Yeah. You can tell a collector is lying if their mouth is moving. Yeah. I'm usually not the person to tell. Yeah. You're not going to be comfortable finding out that this level of humanity exists in our culture.

It is the underbelly of what's going on out there. But you just got to be really tough and really firm. You can have a little fun with it and be sarcastic and mean back if you want, or you can just be really tough and really firm and go, look, we're through talking now. I'll call you next month. Beep.

Okay, you're gone. Next, hey, we have 25 cents on the dollar. You want to take that? Give it to me in writing. I will send it to you certified mail, return receipt requested, cashier's check. We'll get a prepaid debit card for that amount, whatever. We can find some way where they can access his account and clean out the 15K or clean out 100 cents on the dollar after they agreed to 25 cents on the dollar. And you got how many of these creditors you got to deal with, Greg?

About 30. Yeah, this is going to be fun. Not. I know. Not. And I heard that once you do, then they all start hounding you again, hounding my son again. No, no, no. Once it's settled in full and you have it in writing, he's done.

Just keep that forever, though. Keep it in a file. You're settling this on his behalf. He's going to give you a sheet that says in writing that you have permission to settle this account for him because he's disabled. He's got a brain injury. Right. And so you could get nothing, people, but we're trying to give you what he does have. So you're being honorable. You're going to give him everything he's got.

You're being honorable and settling it. So, you know, and just keep talking to them and talking to them. But you're dealing with people that couldn't get a job shoveling out a septic tank. And so they're sitting on the phone being a collector instead. This, that's honorable, by the way. That's not. This is the Ramsey Show.

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All right. Today's question comes from Jim in Arizona. He says, we pay extra on our mortgage each month so that we can get rid of it more quickly. Very good. We're wondering if refinancing while still paying extra will put more towards the principal and help us pay it off faster, even though the interest rate would be slightly higher. So here's the details. Our current mortgage is a 15 year at 2.75%. The balance is $103,000.

Our current monthly payment is $1,700 a month and we are paying $2,500 a month. Very good. Right now, we would pay it off in four years and the house is worth over $600K. If we refinance, our monthly payment would be $760 a month. And from what I've read, the interest does not apply to the overage amount paid and is directly applied to the principal interest-free. Is this true?

Dave, have you ever read something and it makes so little sense that it makes you question your own level of intelligence? Yeah.

everything on the internet is not true abraham lincoln said that so yeah there you go yeah no i wouldn't refinance number one you have 2.75 percent why would you go up to a six plus you know interest rate for this you've got because he thinks that the interest is all charged on the front end and he's not and and that he's he doesn't understand how this really works that's why yeah okay so here's how it really works

The interest is calculated on a mortgage just like a simple interest loan. Now, what does that mean? It means you take your annual interest rate, in this case 2.75%, you divide that by 12. When you do that, you're going to get 0.22, so about a quarter of a percent per month. And so whatever balance is outstanding that month,

One quarter of 1% or 0.22% is going to be multiplied by that, and that is the interest that is owed that month. Now, let's say that's $100,000, okay? And so if you paid that tiny little bit of interest and you paid $5,000 more towards your mortgage, the next month the amount of interest would be $95,000 times 0.223%.

And if you pay down $1,000 the next month, it's going to be the interest is $94,000 times .223. And so the only way a mortgage gets paid off faster due to a refinance is if you get a lower interest rate, not a higher interest rate. It's mathematically impossible for your mortgage to be paid off faster than

with a higher interest rate. There is no scenario in which that works. So whatever you read confused you or was just wrong, and most of what you read these days about finance on the Internet is just wrong because it's just really basic math. The amount outstanding that month, the balance, the principal balance that month times the monthly portion of the interest, your annual rate divided by 12.

Okay, that tells you how much of your payment is going to interest. Yeah. Everything else is going to reduce principal. So let's do some quick dirty math, okay? $100,000 at two and three quarters. That's $2,750 per $100,000. Yes. Per year. Okay. Okay. If you pay $2,500 a month, which is what he's doing now, that's $30,000 a year. Mm-hmm.

30,000 times three is 90. Okay. During that time, we've had around $3,000 in interest build up per year. So he should be debt free in three and a half years if he just pays $30,000 a year.

Wow, that's not bad. Because in three years, he would have paid off 90 plus a little interest. Okay. Or minus a little interest, so call it 85. Right. All right, which will leave him about 15 more thousand. So in about three and a half years, he's debt free with a two and three quarter percent mortgage. That ain't bad. If you just keep doing what you're doing, dude. If you add more to it, of course, it's going to go away even faster. Right. And if you add a lump sum to it today. Right.

It'll go away even faster. The next month, you're not going to pay interest on anything except what is left.

That's how simple interest is calculated, and that's how a mortgage is calculated with any standard mortgage that's out there. Now, there are some rip-off finance company mortgages that use the rule of 78s, which has a prepayment penalty built into it, and you do not get credit for the interest by prepaying principal on those. But that's if you've got an 18% interest rate and you went to the storefront like beneficial, which is not...

or something like that, right? You go on one of these rip-off. It's right next to the pawn shop. Oh, gracious. You know, you get a 38% interest rate on a personal loan of $5,000 in there. Those kinds of places, right? Yeah. So you can go in there and get a different mortgage. But all FHA, VA, Fannie Mae, home equity loans with a traditional bank or credit union, they're all run on simple interest with no prepayment penalty.

And so you do not prepay the interest. The reason that your payment is X and most of it goes to interest. And when you have a 30 year mortgage on your first payment is because your balance is so stinking high still. And when it's multiplied by your interest rate divided by 12, right, takes up most of your monthly payment. That's right.

That's why it starts out. But if you look towards the end of paying it off, almost all of it is almost all your payment. Then if you just pay in your regular payment is going towards principal. Why? Because your balance is infinitely small at that point. You got five grand left on your balance and you're, you know, you're paying a thousand dollars a month. So of course, most of the thousand is not going to be interest because there's not a lot of interest on five grand. That's right.

Well, Dave, this is why you've got the goat status. I think that was a great job of explaining that. Wonderful. I mean, it's just, it's, you know, and so, Jim, thank you for coming to us because the problem with this kind of stuff is it causes people to do stupid butt stuff. It does. And here's the thing. Here's what's scary. There's people in the mortgage business that don't know what I just said. I guarantee it.

And they will sell you a 6% mortgage as a method of getting out of debt when you have a 2.75% mortgage. Well, they're also going to get paid off of that. Well, there's that. But some of them do it out of ignorance, not malicious. I mean, they just don't know.

People, this is really basic stuff. But let's just take it one step further. Just be real nerdy, okay? You and Sam ever get your amortization schedule out? Yes, yes. You got the columns of the interest and the principle? If you go take your calculator and do what I just said to do, it's exactly what you're going to find. That's how that's developed. That's the spreadsheet formula that I just gave you that you plug in the spreadsheet formula and it creates those amtables, those amortization tables.

All right. Because that shows you the portion. You know, I got a payment of a thousand. This much is principal. This tiny little bit's principal at the first. The whole big thing's interest. And then it goes to the bottom and to the bottom. That's why it's exciting to look at because you start seeing more of your money go to it. And so if you take your AM schedule and you say, okay, I'm currently owe $200,000 on my AM schedule. You find that place on your AM schedule. And you say, what would happen if I paid $50,000 in principal next month?

Well, you slide down to where you find $150,000 balance and you'll see how much of your payment is going to go to interest and how much is going to go to principal. Yeah. Because so what you're literally doing is you're sliding forward in the M schedule by prepaying principal to the next level or to the next place that that principal amount equals that. That's how it works. And that's but it's all based on the idea of.

The interest is charged only on the outstanding balance monthly. It's not biweekly. Right. Once a month. So you could pay four times during the month. Doesn't change a thing. Doesn't change a thing. Because they only reset once a month. And so at the beginning of the month, whatever's outstanding...

times your monthly interest rate is going to give you your interest charge. And so that's how this process works. That's a good question. It was, and a great explanation. And I'm glad, Jim, that you sent it in here. We're not making fun of you for not knowing because most people don't know this. And a lot of people think that because the interest is so large on the front end that they're paying all the interest up front. And you're not. You're only paying the interest that you owe each month. That's all.

This is the Ramsey Show. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. The phone number is 888-825-5225. This is common sense for your dollars and cents. Gwen's with us in Tampa. Hi, Gwen. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. My issue is my husband and I restored a 1966 Airstream and used it. Unfortunately, he passed away and it's time to let it go. So

My question is, my niece and husband expressed an interest in it a long time ago and said, hey, if you're ever interested in selling it or that's the way they put it, you know, let us know. So I had written them a letter. My question is, we're supposed to talk tomorrow. And I thought, you know, I don't know how this is supposed to go. What's fair? I do have another niece and another nephew, and we have a trust as well. But bottom line is, I thought, you know, I just want to be fair. I don't know. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Slow down, slow down.

How long ago did your husband pass? Pardon me? I'm sorry? How long ago did your husband pass away? He passed away four years ago. I'm so sorry. And you guys rebuilt this camper together. Well, we had it restored. Oh, you had it restored. Okay. So what is it worth if you were just to sell it on the open market? I actually, it was valued at, surprisingly and shockingly, it's valued at $33,000. Why is that shocking? Is it shockingly low or high? Well,

Well, it is high. For me, it's 1966, but my people that we have at service regularly said, oh my gosh, these are really in demand. It's kind of a cool rebate. It's a fad right now. Yeah, it's a fad. That's a cool thing. All right, so you have a $33,000 camper, and one of your family members wants to buy it.

Yes, they expressed it probably three or four years ago and said, hey, if you're ever interested in selling it, please let us know. Okay. I'm letting you know it's $33,000. I'm letting you know. I'm getting ready to put the camper up for sale for $33,000 in two weeks. Would you like it before I put it up for sale? Did you already do that, Gwen?

If they're offended by you selling your camper for what it's worth, then that's their problem. Do you think they're expecting some sort of a deal because it's family?

Is that what you're worried about? I would guess that. I would guess that. Why? I don't want to presuppose, but I'm not very good thinking on my feet. I get a little flustered. Well, you don't have to think on your feet. You don't have to think on your feet. You're going to sell your camper for $33,000. Or if you want to give them a deal just because as an act of love and you've got a pile of money and you don't need any money, do you need money?

Well, this is the thing. I would like to use that money. We're establishing a scholarship in my husband's name at the high school. Then they're helping with that if they buy the camper. And you can tell them that. Yeah. I'm going to sell the camper, and whatever I get out of it is going to go into his scholarship fund over at the school.

And so, and the guys at the camper place tell me it's worth $33,000. So I'm going to put it up for sale for $33,000. If you want to sell it to them for $30,000 and just say that, that's fine. But you don't have to think on your feet. This is not a negotiation. This is you just putting a price on something and what it's worth. There's nothing to be flustered about.

Is selling this camper, is it making you feel some type of way? Is that what it is? Because you feel like it sounds like this is just ringing you out right now. Well, you know, it's the uncertainty of it. I know it's the right thing to do. I truly do. We enjoyed it. And I haven't used it in a system for it to just sit. So it feels like you're selling a little bit of what was your husband's in your dream. Mm-hmm.

Yes, we loved it. Yeah, it's going to be kind of emotional the day it leaves. Yeah. Well, I have to tell you, it's beyond me. It's beyond me. And he would love it to go to them if Andy, that's the thing. But I don't think he meant for you to give it to them for free, do you?

I think he would. I'm not sure. My husband was extremely generous. He was. I know. But do you think he was expecting you to give this camper away for free? I don't think so. Okay. I don't think so. I don't either.

You're not being mean when you sell something to anyone for what it is worth. Now, if it's worth $33 and you sold it to them for $43, that's being immoral, right? Okay. Okay? But when you sell something for what it's worth, you have done absolutely nothing wrong. If you choose to discount it slightly, not as an act of...

Being pressured or feeling some kind of guilt trip, but just as an act of generosity, then that's your choice. It's your item and you can do that too. So you say, you know, they, the guys at the store tell us it's worth 33. That's what I'm gonna put it on the market for. But because my husband would love it if you guys had it and knew that, and we knew that you were using it, you know, we'll sell it to you guys for 30 instead of 33. And the money is going to a scholarship fund. So it's, it's still, it's,

generosity yeah does that make sense but i don't think i don't think we're going much lower than that okay and if they have an expectation of that that's their problem because no promise was made ever in any conversation to these people that they were getting a free camper yeah they said when it goes for sale let us know not when you give the camper away let us know

Well, can I add something? A family member that was kind of involved. There it is. There it is. This is what's called nunya. Nunya business. I don't know who this family member is, but they're not in this transaction. But I just figured out what you're worried about and what you're feeling guilty about and what all your feels are about that Jade was smelling. It's this family member.

who was a member of his family, not yours, correct? Actually, no.

Your husband's family. A member of my family. Oh, of your family. Okay. Then you can really tell them where to... Yeah, exactly. This is called Good Boundaries. And I don't think I asked you, and I don't think I will be asking you, and this is Nanya. That's what you call it, a taco burrito conversation. Nachos. Nachos.

Nachos. Nachos. Nachos. I love that. I have never heard that. That is fabulous. Henry Cloud will love that. The author of Boundaries. Nachos. Okay.

Mic drop right there. Last time I looked at the title, it says nachos. Nachos. It says mine. That is so good. I don't know if I'm going to get out of here or not.

Get me to a commercial, Lori. Oh, that's so good. That's the ultimate boundaries joke right there. It is. I'm going to email that to Henry right now. Oh, man. I knew something was going on in that, though. You're right. You smelled it, and I thought it was the grieving over her husband. At first, and then I'm like, there's something with this. It's her mama or somebody that needs a nachos burrito. Nachos.

You don't get to speak into this. That is so great. Whoever it is has been sniffing around that camper for a while now, too. Yeah, they got their own little game going, don't they? Or they just like to screw around in other people's business. True, which some folks are like that. Nacho's is so much better than Nunya. Nunya dadgum business works pretty good. They're cousins. Mine's your own. Mine's your own.

Mind your own. It's a full-time job. This is Nunya. Nunya. And it's nachos. So great. Well, I'm glad I introduced you to something new, Dave. I bet Deloney doesn't know that. Oh, well. We'll hear that on the mental health show, The Dr. John Deloney Show, when he's helping people set boundaries. This is The Ramsey Show.

Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, is my co-host. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. This is The Ramsey Show. When you graduated from high school, did anybody give you a copy of a Dr. Seuss book as a gift? I hope not. High school? Oh, the places you'll go.

That's the one. That's my guess anyway. Yeah, okay. I was thinking, what the crap? At first I went to Green Eggs and Ham. Dr. Seuss is not for high school. Okay. But here's the, let's just try something. Let's do a graduation gift that actually matters over the places you'll go, okay? The Get Clear Assessment is built specifically for teenagers.

They spend some time answering questions, and in just a few minutes, they get customized results about their specific top talents, passions, and mission. And that is the kind of guidance that gives them confidence about the major they choose, the career field they lean towards, and avoid wasting years and tens of thousands of dollars on courses, on degrees they don't need, want, or hate. People spend years of their lives trying to figure this stuff out, and you can give them the Get Clear Assessment program.

For students, for $30 at RamseySolutions.com, go to the store, or you can give them Dr. Seuss. Your choice. So now we're trashing Dr. Seuss in our ad copy? Well, you know... Is that how un-American is that? The point is it's better to get the... I love Dr. Seuss. I'd rather have the assessment, though, than the book. I would, too, but why can't we pick on somebody other than Dr. Seuss? Do both and. I'm like Anchorman. I just read whatever's put in front of me, apparently. Oh, my God.

This is awful. No, I'm not going to trash Dr. Seuss anymore. Tell those mean people in marketing to rewrite their copy. They're just meanies. Just big old meanies.

So seriously, all joking aside, get your kids to take this assessment. Wouldn't you have loved as a high school senior to have a freaking clue about what you were leaning into? Love it. Would have loved that. RamseySolutions.com slash store. What's the name of the book we're telling them not to buy? Oh, The Places You'll Go. Oh, I think you ought to get that too. Not to be confused with Green Eggs and Ham. We need to just throw that in with the Get Clear assessment. We don't have any of those, so we can't. Oh, The Places You'll Go.

Rodney's in Washington, D.C. Rodney, how are you? I'm very good. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

Well, I'm 58 years old, and I'm retired. My bring-home pay is $3,800. I have about $36,000 cash in the bank, $135,000 in one retirement account, and $230,000 in the other retirement account. I owe $43,000 on my house.

and I want, want, babe, to buy a new car. I'm not 100% need it right now, but I want to. So I'm trying to figure out, should I take a little bit of money out of my retirement account and buy the car outright, or should I just pay the house off first or something else? How much are you thinking about spending? Actually, the car is going to be approximately $40,000.

Yeah. So about close to the same amount that I owe for my mortgage. Well, I mean, you're certainly allowed to do that. It's not against the law. But you called us and asked us, okay? Yes, sir. And you said you're how old? I'm 58. Okay. All right. I'm a car guy, so I can relate. I mean, I like a great car. I got my big Raptor with loud mufflers and my sports cars, and I love that stuff. So I'm with you on all this.

But the problem is that these toys are going to cost you parts of your future that you don't want them to cost you. So we don't, A, number one, we don't recommend buying a car, a brand new car, unless you have a million dollar net worth, because they go down in value so fast. So we don't do that, and you're not there. So we're not buying a new one anyway. So let's talk about a used one. And a used one, we don't recommend buying anything you can't pay cash for, and that the total of all of the items that you own that has motors or wheels...

does not equal more than half your annual income. And you said you make what a year? Again, I'm retired. My bring home for my pension is about $3,800. Oh, yeah, that's right. Okay. And you're retired at 58. Yes, sir. You don't work at all. I got very lucky. I sell some stuff on eBay, but that's it. Okay. Are you married? My mortgage is only...

No, sir, I'm not. Okay. So what do you spend your time doing? Besides looking at new cars. Right. I sell stuff on eBay, just nothing much of anything. What's the car you're thinking of? Probably like a Hyundai Santa Fe or something like that. Okay. All right.

Well, what I would tell you is that I would do if I woke up in your shoes. What are you driving now? What's the car worth you're driving now? The car I'm driving now is a Santa Fe, and it is probably worth around $12,000 or $15,000. Okay. Again, you're more than welcome, sir. We'll still be friends if you do whatever you want to do, but you called us. What I would do is I would drive the car you're driving and pay off my house.

And I would pick up something fun that I make money, really money, good money doing. And you're only 58 years old. You're just a pup. Yes, sir. I mean, you could go make 50 grand and not even think anything about it and then use that money to upgrade the car after your house is paid off. I love that plan.

You got all this potential right in front of you. And so if I'm you, I want the car. I agree with you. But I'm going to do it smart. And that way, have you ever bought something, Rodney, and by the time you finish paying it off or by the time you owned it a little while, you knew you shouldn't have bought it and you hated the stupid thing that you thought you were going to love? No.

Yeah, that's what this is going to be if you do this wrong because you're already too smart to do this. Yeah. Hey, you're not done. I think that you've still got something to offer. And I think the longer that you sit around, you're going to be looking for more things to buy. So you got to go make some money if you're sitting around all day. You know what? That's going to be me. I have to do that. I have to be careful because if I'm sitting around.

I'm planning the next trip or the next car purchase. I'm just like that. I hadn't even thought of that. Oh, my God. It's true. I've got the money. That's different. But yeah. I used to work from home before I came here. And now that I've come here to Ramsey, I come in here every day. You don't spend as much money? I don't spend as much money. Yeah, you're working. Man, I used to sit around. It's like you're sitting looking around your house just looking for things to replace. Yeah, it's what happened during COVID, man.

Well, Home Depot stock went up. Man, so true. So Rodney, let's go ahead. Let's keep an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Let's start chunking down on that house. Let's get that house paid off. And then let's save up beyond that. And the best, the fastest way to do that is just make some more money.

You could double your income without a lot of effort. Yep, yep. You're only making about $45,000 a year with your current retirement income, and you could easily go make another $35,000 or $40,000 just screwing around. I mean, really, you don't have to work that hard.

But just go do something all with the idea that when I get my car and I got the emergency fund, I got the house paid off. I'm going to quit that. And I may sit around, do nothing again, except you'll be trying to spend again. But yeah, but yeah, that, that, that's how I would do it. If you'll do this after you have figured out a way that's fun and reasonably easy to make some more money and you have paid off your house and you have your emergency fund and then you pay cash for the upgrade on the car. If you do it, then you're,

and buy a one or a two-year-old one, you're going to feel really good about Rodney. You know, so many people treat work like it's a sentence. And when my sentence is over, I get to, and it shouldn't feel like that. You know, you should be able to find work that you enjoy doing. And for him, it doesn't have to be eight hours a day, you know, all this time. It doesn't have to be a grind. Yeah, it doesn't have to be a grind. It can just be something you enjoy doing. The weird thing is your highest,

potential across the board. Now, that's not true of everybody, but I mean, the average is people in their 50s. Wow. Between the age 50 and age 60, you make the most money of any decade of your working life because all the stupid stuff you did in your early years is now called experience. And you got it dialed in and you hit the sweet spot every time you hit the ball. That's cool. You know, and then 60, you start to slow down and calm down. But most people make the most of their money in their 50s.

So you've got a real opportunity, Rodney. Still got two of those years left. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

Jade Warshall, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Starting off this hour is Jill in Dallas. Hi, Jill. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Good afternoon, sir. I am so grateful that I have been able to get through the lines. Thank you so much for your time. We're honored. How can we help?

I have an investment question, please. I value your opinion very much. We have a question about paying off a reverse mortgage for my father-in-law. My husband and I make between $180,000 and $200,000 a year. We have no debt. We have about $1.2 in our savings.

retirement accounts. We own our house and we also own two other houses. Wow. Very good. So your net worth is north of $4 million? Probably between $2 and $3. One of the houses is pretty small. That's a story in itself. But anyway, my husband's father has a reverse mortgage and we would like to pay it off

The interest rate seems to be quite exorbitant. Ridiculous, yeah. Yes, and in another six or seven years, the interest will have eaten up the complete value of the home. I just want to know from your perspective, we were considering taking out the money. There's $160 owed on the house. We were considering withdrawing it. My husband is...

59 and a half. We were considering withdrawing it and making it like an investment since real estate does appreciate. I realized that it would, his father is 89 and so this could be tied up for 10 plus years that long-term investments usually are just that long-term. So I just, from your perspective would really value your opinion in what, what do you think of this? What, what pitfalls do you see? Very sad that,

Your father-in-law is 89, and he's got himself in a position where these rip-off reverse mortgages to be in a pinch. I'm so sorry. The great news is you guys are in great shape, and you're able to do this. So does your husband have siblings?

He does. Our thought was at the end that if we took out what we spent on the house plus the same gain that we had made on our 401k, and let that be ours because you can't take the money out and not make something on it. What is the house currently worth? The house is worth about $330,000. And none of the other siblings are in a position to help?

No, sir. We bought one of the siblings a house so that he could live in the county and get county health care. That's one of the houses we own. So he is very ill and needed to be inside our county line so that the county could cover his health care. So no one's going to object to anything here then? I don't think so. His dad would like to keep it a secret until after he's gone and let it be a surprise. I think that's a bad idea. Nope.

That's how everybody gets, that's how people spend the rest of their lives, pissed off. Nope, we're going to tell everybody in the family what's going on, and here's what we're going to do. Yes, sir. We're going to deed the house to you guys. Yes, sir. And you all just pay it off, and it's your house. Okay. And then you pay for the insurance, and you pay for the taxes, you pay for the maintenance, and dad gets to live there for life. Yes, sir.

Or as long as he can stay in the house, that is. If he has to be cared for in some other way, then that would be different. But, yeah, just, you know, we'll get you out, Dad, but go ahead and just deed it to us now, and that's our return. And we're also going to have to invest more because we're going to have to cover the maintenance and we're going to have to cover the taxes and insurance for you to live there for free as long as you're able to live in the house.

Yes, sir. And that's a fair deal financially. It's also a very kind thing for you all to do, and you're in a position to do it, and you'll be okay financially. You're not stupid. But I'm not doing this and keep it a secret. Secrets are ugly and stuff like this. Okay. All right. Well, I don't want to cause a problem. You will. Okay. Well, then we won't keep it a secret. Yeah. It's just fair. Okay? And if anybody has a better plan, you'll be okay.

Y'all can do it. But if you don't have a better plan, you don't have the money. We're standing here with the money. We can do this. But I don't want some character in the family to be yelling later, oh, Jill took advantage of Grandpa. Yeah. And it has to be the house has to be deeded up front. It can't be, hey, we'll give him the money to pay the house off, and then he wills us the house. Like, it can't be that. No, no. You get the house in your name now. Yeah.

Now, OK, and we were taking the money out of our 401k to pay it off. But, you know, I mean, we've got plenty in there and we've still got another many years to still. And you don't you don't have enough in a side investment account. That's not 401k to do it, do you? No, we've only got about 50 in another account. We don't have enough to pay it off. You're going to pay taxes. So it's going to cost you 200 grand to get this out.

To clear 160. And so, yeah, I'm still doing it, though. It's why you work. You're able to take care of dad. But I'm not going to have anybody objecting to this. And we're going to control the variables because he obviously has...

We know that he doesn't always make good decisions because he made the decision to put a reverse mortgage on there. And so I can't leave the house in his name hoping he's going to make good decisions. No, we're going to take care of this so that we can take care of him.

Okay. All right. I just want to do the right thing. That's all. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. You have such a good heart. You do. And hopefully everyone will see the good in this and there won't be a relative that objects. But if there is, at least they'll know it on the front end and we can just go, this is what we're doing. And unless you've got a better plan to take care of him, he's otherwise going to end up losing his house. So what do you people want to do here?

Yeah. These reverse mortgages are from the pit of hell. They're horrible. Terrible. Absolutely horrible. High interest rates, high fees. And what's weird is, of course, the reverse is they pay for you. Those of you don't know how it works. They're paying the old man payments until it gets to 65% loan to value. When it gets to 65% loan to value, they stop the payments.

And now they just add interest to the 65 until it eats up the entire value. And then they foreclose. That's so sad. Or if he doesn't keep up the taxes and insurance, even after they stop the payments, that throws it in default and they foreclose. So regular home mortgages have about a 2% to a 3% foreclosure rate. Reverse mortgages have a 15% foreclosure rate.

So I'm not kidding when I say this is a ripoff. Yeah, that's true. And they're sold on television on ads by washed up actors between the walk-in bathtubs and the Sluggy commercial. I saw Joe Namath, Montel Jordan. Yeah. Yeah. My greatest fear in life is I live long enough.

To do one of those ads. Oh, no, Dave. You would never. You would never. You're right. I would never. I'm not that desperate to be in front of a camera. This is The Ramsey Show. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. The phone number here is 888-825-5225.

Whole bunch of you are brand new. We appreciate that. We're glad you're here. You can help us out if you would, whether you're old timer or whether you're brand new. We need the help. You can do three things to help us move this show out and help America and serve America by telling them the truth because we love them.

and that's simply this share the show tell people about it click the share link if you're on a podcast or youtube or something like that click the share link share the link however you want to do it i don't care but pass this along to your friends you can subscribe or follow if you're on a podcast and you can leave us a five-star review for your podcast or youtube say something nice like five stars because mama said if you hang anything nice to say don't say anything at all just move along and

Now I think we're number 11 podcast on Apple's ranking. It comes and goes in the entire world of podcasts, which is some two or three million podcasts that are out there. That's not a nuanced category. That's of all of them.

And so thank you guys. We appreciate that. We have not spent $300 million on marketing this year. Instead, you guys are just telling us you like it by telling each other about it. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Katrina is in Chicago. Hi, Katrina. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thanks. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up?

So I own a condo in Chicago, and I am looking to buy a second home in Nashville, Tennessee. Why? And what I'm wondering is why? Because my boyfriend got transferred to Nashville, and then I've been doing long distance, and so now we want to live in the same city to figure out if we're going to marriage. So you're going to move from Chicago to Nashville? Well...

I'm not planning to. So I'm trying to work it out with my job so that I could be fully remote. But in the meantime, I have to come in. I'm supposed to be around 60 percent. So I'm I'm still doing that by going to Nashville. But it's a little painful. So you want a second home in Tennessee. Is your current home in Chicago paid for? It is.

Wow, okay. So I don't have any debt currently. Okay. And I really don't want to get any because you know how this works. Yeah, I do know how it works. Well, my question is, why do you feel that you would have to, just hypothetically, why do you feel that you would have to buy a home so soon? Well, she just rented an apartment for six months.

The rent is so expensive. But even if this wasn't, even if there was no boyfriend or anything like that, we would never say to just walk in and up and buy a house. You would just want to get a feel of the area, figure out what life is. I have been getting a feel of the area in the last, I've been doing this for a year and a half, like going back and forth. How old are you? I'm 46. What do you make?

I make $183,000 and then a bonus that's about $100,000. How long have you been dating a boyfriend? Since more pandemic love. Pandemic love. Only good thing that came out of it. That's much better than puppy love, I'm just saying. Perfect.

But here's the thing. I'm slightly, well, no, I'm robbing the cradle a bit. He's much younger. I didn't know that, but it is what it is. So that's another reason why I,

That's just another reason we think you're awesome right there. Okay. But here's the deal. You're making a permanent real estate decision in a temporary situation. That's a bad move.

This is a situation where you rent until the permanent shakes out. There's two issues on the permanent. When the relationship goes from boyfriend to husband and when the job allows you to move, now we have permanent.

Then we buy. As a matter of fact, then we buy you and him because you're married until then. You know, you're doing this gypsy thing back and forth, corporate gypsy thing and remote semi and long distance love affair and all this. And all of that just screams rent.

And not to mention, if we're really playing this out long term, okay, you got the paid for house in Chicago. Let's say you come to Tennessee, you rent for a while, you got, you know, your work thing works out, you get engaged, you decide to get married, you can sell the Chicago house and you can probably end up buying whatever house you get here in Tennessee in cash.

As opposed to trying to... Do you see what I'm saying? This just screams rent for six months. Yeah, long term, it's better to do it this way. Okay, but then... I hear what you're saying, but then can I ask... Yeah. My question was going to be, when I buy that place, I have cash in three different places. Pay cash for it. And I'm wondering...

Okay. Yeah. But you're going to sell the place in Chicago. Yeah, you've got to sell the place in Chicago. So the end of the story, if it goes like you think, unless I'm missing something, is you're married and live in Nashville, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's the end of the story. So you're going to sell the place in Chicago, and you've got cash, and you've got him. Hopefully he's worth something. We didn't even ask about that. Please tell us it's good, Katrina. Yeah, no, it's good. He's just fun. You know, he's...

He's more puffy in his, you know. How young is this guy? I don't mean that, but like compared to, like there's a lot of earning potential between 32 and 46. Okay, okay. All right. I see you, Katrina. I see you out here. All right. Hey, yeah, just what's happening here is this is an exciting adventure in your life, and don't confuse that with real estate.

Real estate's when things are stable and boring and you pay cash. So I would not buy right now because if you buy, you're going to end up selling what you buy and doing something different when this all settles. You're going to end up saying we want to set up our lives and it's not in this house or not in this condo. And so it just bothers you because you're cheap to rent.

Because you feel like you're wasting money. But rent, when it's in a proper scenario, and this is a proper scenario, is called paying for patience. And look, if you move all the way down to Tennessee, your boy better put a ring on it. That's all I'm saying. If you're making this type of transition, he needs to come through. And I hope that he does for you. Mama Jade with relationship advice. There we go. Right there. Ding, ding. I love it. Good stuff. Stacy's in Bakersfield, California. Hi, Stacy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Oh, thank you for having me. Sure, what's up? Well, I listened to your podcast on the way home from a trip and I was really, you pulled me in. I'm very newly divorced. I've never operated on a budget at all. I have some debt in this new single life of mine and I have a little bit of money in a brokerage account. How much debt and how much in the brokerage account?

Only $22,000. I have about $38,000 in debt. Half of it is a medical bill and the other half is credit cards. And I really need some direction and help. What do you make? I make, I gross about $107,000. This year I'm going to get a 5%, so $113,000 a year. Mm-hmm.

I pay into a pension. I have a pension. No kids, right? Right. All right. You know, if I were you, I would probably do that. You know, if I had money set aside that was not retirement, I'd probably...

pull some from it to pay debt, especially if it's single stocks. Yeah, I'm going to cash it all in and clear the debt because we're going to get you on the debt snowball. We're going to put you on a budget. And a budget's not a beans and rice thing. It may be for a little while until you get some of these bills cleaned up. But then after that, it's just you telling your money what to do and giving you confidence in this new stage of life for handling your own money. And I also want you to download EveryDollar. That's the budgeting app that we use here. And it's great. It's going to help

It's going to help anybody who's never budgeted before learn how to do it because it's not just an app where you put the numbers and it's teaching you. And there's teachings that are built into the app that help you throughout this. So that's what I would do. And I'm excited that you're on this journey. I think that it's exciting that you're finally getting in control of your money. And that starts with you budgeting. It starts with you getting out of debt. And make sure before you do all of this that you put aside $1,000 for emergencies because you need that first things first. For your starter, beginner emergency fund. Yep.

So every dollar will do that. And I'll tell you what, let's just go ahead. Since you're starting a new phase of life, put you into Financial Peace University. That's a nine-week class, a nine-lesson class on how to handle money. Give you your confidence in this area, and we'll help you do it. We're going to do it all for free. It's just our gift to you to help you start fresh.

Jade Walsh, all Ramsey personality is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Nicole in Syracuse, New York. Hi, Nicole. How are you? Hi, Dave and Jade. How are you guys doing? Great. What's up?

Um, so I, my husband and I are on baby step two. We just paid off one of our cars, well, our only car, um, with a huge $9,000 payment to eliminate that debt. Um, it took a lot of strong arming my husband to let go of that money to pay it off, but we did. So, um, last year we sold his car to get out of that debt and save money since he's able to walk to both his jobs.

It's worked for us for almost a year. My husband has a full-time job for $22 an hour and part-time with $17 an hour, and I get $16 an hour for my part-time job. We take home about $4,530 a month. So my husband is looking for a better job that would pay him about $25 to $28 an hour. If he gets this job, we would have to come up with at least $7,000.

quick to get a new car or a used car. Where did $7,000 come from?

So we've been working with a car broker, auto broker, and that's like around the number that we have been looking for. But yeah, if he gets that, then, you know, we can get down to one job and I won't be going crazy with the kids at home all day alone. So my question is, is

Is it worth it for him to go for that job that cost a little, I mean, pays him a little bit more? Or should we just continue what we're doing? So let me get this straight. I want to make sure I'm tracking with you. You're saying that if your husband gets this other job, it's going to require you to get another vehicle. And you want to know, is his pay increase worth that cost?

Yeah. So he because he works a job and a half. And if he gets this other job, he could eliminate the other two jobs. Yeah. And then we would actually see each other once in a while. How would you pay for it? How would you how would you pay for that?

The new car, that's the thing. We don't know how he would come up with, since we just did that big payment on that car, and I took a lot of convincing to get him to do that. And you don't have to pay $7,000. Having to convince him doesn't enter into this discussion.

The only thing that enters into the discussion is what makes sense for your family. He shouldn't need convincing on that. He should just want to do it. You should just want to do it. What's best for your family? I'm very cautious. You don't have $7,000, right? No. Right. You can't buy a $7,000 car then. How much could you scrape together to make this happen?

I think if he got hired after the hiring process, if he got hired within two months, we might be able to get $5,000 scraped together. But you're starting now. You're starting to put aside now because you know that this is on the horizon. So we wouldn't wait until, you know, don't wait until the cards are on the table. Start putting aside now so that he has it. Let's just be real clear. Your household income.

If I understood you correctly, if he takes this job does not go up. He just is going to be working less because he's making more at the new job. Your quality of life goes up. So the numbers don't change at your house when he gets the new job. Am I right? Correct. Okay. That's what I thought I understood. So Jade is exactly right. Then you can save up starting right now.

and buy a $2,000 car or a $4,000 car or a $3,000 car, whatever cash you can scrape together. There's no magic to seven. The only magic to seven is you don't have it, so you can't do it. Right, right. Because you're not going to, listen, if you continually figure out a way to rationalize borrowing money, you're going to borrow money the rest of your life and just be normal broke people.

You've got to stop that. You have to draw a line in the sand. Debt is not an option. Now, what do we do? We want a better life. He wants this better job. I'm with you on both of those things. Got no issue with that. Now, how do we get started over there, or how do we scrape up some money? When do you think he's going to hear on this job? He's got an interview on Thursday. Is it a one-and-done interview, or is it a six-week interview process?

Well, he's had an interview for this job before, and then he applied. He keeps applying to the same job over and over again. Same company, I mean. So why is he going to get it this time? I don't know. Hey, what kind of job? What is it? What is it that he's interviewing for?

A grocery store manager for Aldi. Is there any other chains that he can be interviewing for the same position? Why has it got to be the same Aldi? Can he look at Publix? Can he look at Kroger? Whatever it is by you, Hy-Vee, whatever the grocery store chains are. Is he just putting all his chips in one bag or can he, you know, I'm just trying to get a beat on what's really going on.

Right. Yeah, I guess we were just kind of like I think he's putting out a lot of feelers for different jobs, but that's the one that that's the one he wants. I want to be serious again. I'm not trying to be sarcastic or mean. He's applied for this job multiple times and has not gotten it. Why is it now you're more sure? What evidence do you have? I don't. OK, so let's stop then. You're tired.

Of him working all the time. And so you're trying to wish this into existence and somehow figure out a way to buy a car that you don't need to be buying until this all goes down. Right. You're just tired. You've been fighting this baby step two stuff and your tank is starting to get empty. Am I wrong? Correct. I hope your wish comes true. I hope he gets this and you all get a better quality of life making the same amount of dollars. How much debt do you all have left?

We have a home equity loan for about $10,000, and then he has his student loans, which are on pause, for $39,000. And then our house, we have $61,000. So baby step two is the home equity loan and the student loan. So you've got $49,000 left, and your household income total in a year is what?

round before taxes, round 55 to 60. Yeah. Okay. I have a question for you and I don't want to dig the hole deeper. Are you guys working towards your long-term play for careers?

Um, I'm kind of just like working part-time jobs. I don't, yeah. Because it kind of sounds like... Go ahead. Long-time play. Okay. His jobs are like grocery store managers. Like he doesn't really have a long-time play either. I want you guys, okay.

In the break, let's pick up and let's get you guys paycheck to purpose. Let's do the career assessment, all that stuff. Because I feel like... The Ken Coleman materials, you guys need to get the career thing moving. Yeah, yeah. Because that's what's going to give you... You're grabbing at little things and you got this one thing, this one Aldi store, this one managership. What Jade was telling you earlier, we want to...

We want you to earn more for your sake, and that's going to make this whole thing get better and go faster. I hope he gets this one, but if he doesn't, we need a better plan. Because you've still got, at your current income, you've still got two years to go. Maybe step two, and your debt's snowballing. You're tired, and you're already tired.

I do think you all need to get a car. I think the one car is adding to the family stress, even not counting this job stuff. Is that right? Correct. Yeah. So, yeah, we need to do that. And I want him not to have to be coerced into these things. I want him to be leading into these things with you, the two of you holding hands and walking towards the light. Right. And doing this together, that's going to make that's going to lower the stress for both of you as well.

Because he's not giving up his life. He's living his life. It's through and with his family. That's what he chose. And that's what he's doing. And because he's a good man. But it's not like your mommy and telling a little boy he can't have candy. That's right. That's not what's going on.

So this is a man who's leaning in good for him. And he's, he's working with his wife and we're fighting for a better future together as two grownups. And that's how it should be. And so you got a good guy there. He's a good guy. Yeah. You probably, you guys probably do need to budget in a car into your debt snowball and let's start working on the career stuff too. So, um,

But hang on. We'll have Austin pick up. We'll get you a Paycheck to Purpose book for him and for you by Ken Coleman and the Get Clear Assessment to help you figure out what kind of careers to aim at, where there's serious money that can be taken off the table. I'd love to see you all double your income in the next five years. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 14, 23. There is profit in hard work, but mere talk leads to poverty.

Stephen King says talent is cheaper than table salt. What separates the talented individual from the successful one is a lot of hard work. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Stephen is up next in Cookville, Tennessee. Hi, Stephen. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, thanks for having me on. Sure. How can we help? Well, essentially, all my life I've really been earning below the poverty line. You know, living in a low-income area, it kind of goes with the lifestyle, I guess. But with recent years of people not wanting to work and...

you know, and that tailored with, you know, a lot of, a lot of, uh, houses and, and, and mortgages going up and everything. I, I don't, I simultaneously see a, uh,

opportunity to make a lot more money which I don't really know how to do as well as having the dread of not being able to afford a home within the next 10 years so it's kind of like a duality sort of thing and I'm wondering what would your advice be for trying to jump on the opportunity to earn as much income as possible for somebody's in my situation what do you want to do

Well, I've always been enamored with film and the art of it. I did go to film school about 10 years ago. Didn't get to finish it because I didn't make enough money. I'm currently in an acting class right now, but I've always wanted to be able to have something to fall back on. Yeah, the thing with the arts is you've got to make money

until you make money, basically, is the way that works. You know, whenever I hear people talk like this, or it's like, I've been below the poverty line, I'm kind of caught up into this. I think you've got to drill down. And instead of looking at all those outward reasons, why just look at your specific situation? Why are you not

Getting up and finding work that's paying more. What is it that's keeping you from that? Is it that you don't know what you want to do? Is it that you don't know how to what the actual next step is like? What are you need to start asking yourself those questions? Because that's what's going to give you the next step forward. So you said you went to school for acting. You tried the acting thing. I mean, I would want to drill down more on that and find out what happened. But in the meantime, what kept you from doing other work?

Well, I'm currently in an acting class. Thankfully, it's pretty cheap. I can at least afford that. And I get that done in August. But from what I can tell, it's because I've done a lot of job hunting, and it seems to be an educational boundary that I've not been able to crack. What do you do now? Currently, I'm in security for an entertainment venue.

I've got about three years worth of experience in security. And what are you earning? After taxes, a little over $30,000 a year. Full-time? Yes, ma'am. Okay. That's not the poverty level. You know that. Well, yeah. It's lower income, but it's not the poverty level.

Oh, okay. I mean, poverty level for a single guy in Cookville would be $15,000. Well, I commute to Nashville, too. Do you have any debt? Why do you commute to Nashville for a $30,000 job?

It's just I've not been able to find much in Cookville. So move. In terms of debt, yeah. That's a two-hour drive each way. Yeah, where I live, I kind of have the ability to afford rent. Okay, let's stop. My friend Henry Cloud says,

that what we need to do is lay in front of ourselves when we're setting goals, when we want to move, when we want to level up,

We say, okay, here's what I want to be doing. And that's our desired future. And then once we have the desired future figured out, then we have to say, okay, what must be true about me, about my life, about my education, about my location that is not true now in order for me to have my future?

My desired future. Now, you ask us about a desired future that makes more money than you make today. We've had an exploratory conversation around that. All right. And so, number one, there's not going to be acting jobs in Cookville, Tennessee.

Done. You have to move if you're going to do that. You got to at least get to Nashville. You got to at least be in a metropolitan area, minimum Nashville, but obviously New York or L.A. Even Atlanta. And Nashville's got a lot of film work going on, a lot of stuff happening, but it's not exactly nirvana for actors either. So it might be for music people, sort of.

But anyway, so you've got a location issue if you're going to be there. That must be true. You can't live in Cookville and do your dream.

That's one of the, and so you just, you have to start saying, okay, what are my barriers? What are my blockers? And I'm going to knock those down. And I think the next thing you've got to do too is what Jade was indicating is you need to find something making 50 to 60,000 a year, working 40 to 80 hours a week to start piling up some money so that you can afford to work on entering into the entertainment business, which you have to have the side hustle, the side gig, and it may last a decade, but

until you break into those businesses. That's right. Whether it's music business, acting business, or whatever. The joke in Nashville is, how do you get the next country music star's attention? Waiter!

And I know it's possible. Like, I think sometimes people in the arts, they kind of have that. Well, it's be, I'm broke because I'm in the arts. No man. Like you're broke. Cause you ain't working. Yeah, man. Sam and I went to dinner the other night and the valet was parking the car and I went to tip him and I said, you know, do you have the QR code so I can tip you? He said, yeah. He gives me his card with the QR code on it. He's a guitar player. Yeah.

And he's a musician, but he's working as a valet at night. And I'm guessing he probably has a day job as well. And if he's in a high-end restaurant, he's making bank. He was at a high-end restaurant. So don't talk yourself out of the fact that you can't make money until you become a successful actor. That's a lie. So two blockers I see immediately is location.

for your long-term dream and willingness to do a whole bunch of side hustle big time fast. You know why you took the security job at the venue? Because you wanted to be around entertainment, not because it was a good job. Yeah.

You just want to be around it because you love it. You love the stage. You love watching those people on the stage dream, and you're going to be that guy someday. And you might be. I hope you are. But the security gig is not, I mean, obviously, it's not making a lot of money, and commuting from Cookville to do it is just plain mathematically ridiculous. Yeah. Just does not work. So, you know, you're working all the time, and there's plenty of work, and it's not education-based at all.

There's plenty of work from retail to restaurants to Uber to cutting grass to construction to

Uh, man, there's construction jobs on Nashville. There's more cranes in Nashville and the skyline right now than there are buildings. So it's just, you know, there is all kinds of work you can do at 20 to 40 bucks an hour in a town like Nashville. If you can't find that in Cookville, now Cookville is not a small town anymore. Right. Everybody in Cookville is not at the poverty line. I can promise you that. That's true. And I know several multimillionaires there personally. You know, I've said it before and I'll say it again when it comes to this stuff, you've got to,

until you write it down on paper, step by step, what your steps in this process are going to be. It's floating around in your head and it's causing chaos and it's causing you to either paralyze you and not do anything at all or it's just causing you to go in a million directions. You got to get this on paper and write down, all right, step one. My desired future, and I'm Stephen, is to be in the acting world, in the film world.

I've got two things I immediately see already in a five-minute conversation. We move and we work side hustles more to eat.

really well while we're pursuing this dream. Then there's probably more blockers that have to do with actually entering into that industry. You need to get an agent. There you go. I don't know anything about that stuff. You need to get an agent because your agent's going to give you feedback onto what you need to do next to actually be able to land work. So make sure you're sending your things out to people who will give you accurate feedback. So hang on a second. We're going to send you Proximity Principle by Ken Coleman.

and From Paycheck to Purpose by Ken Coleman, which both deal with these issues. You're a good man. I'm honored to talk to you. Thank you for calling. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Hey, what's up, guys? It's Jade. Look, if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps, go to ramseysolutions.com and click the Get Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. That's ramseysolutions.com and click Get Started.

Hey, folks, Dave Ramsey here. You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind, and that's EveryDollar. The EveryDollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money. Start budgeting with EveryDollar for free right now. Just go to RamseySolutions.com slash EveryDollar and download the app today. That's RamseySolutions.com slash EveryDollar.