Most of Your Poor Financial Decisions Start With You
02:04:45 Share

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, number one best-selling author a couple times over and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.

Merry Christmas, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Madison is with us to start off this hour in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Madison. Welcome to the show. Hi, Dave. Hi, John. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

So I'm in a predicament that I've actually made myself. I got married, second marriage for both of us, not quite six years ago. And at that time, I had been through a pretty bad divorce and had a pretty traumatic first marriage. So definitely was...

healing from that and met this wonderful man so nice to me and kind to me and I just fell head over heels in love with him. I knew he was broke. I knew he didn't have any money and that

that just didn't matter to me. He was just so nice to me and I loved being treated nice. So we got married. I did have him sign a prenup because I was expecting to inherit a large amount of money from my parents' estate at some point. I hadn't at that time, but I knew that that would be in the future. And so he did sign a prenuptial agreement and didn't have any problems with that. However,

I started our relationship with just paying all the time. I paid for everything. We'd go out for dinner. I would pay. Um, I already had a place where I lived that I paid for and, uh, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So I, I understand how I've kind of set a pattern. Um,

And at the time, it didn't bother me. And, you know, I also want to add, this man's a Christian man. He knows the Word of God. You know, I really have put this in God's hands and asked for his help. But I just can't figure out why there's no spirit of generosity with him. He just—I've brought up several times, you know,

Can you please pitch in? Just kick in. I don't expect half and half. I have plenty of money. I don't need his money. It's just on principle. I just need to know that I'm not just the only one that's supporting us. I feel like I'm the breadwinner. So he doesn't earn an income? He did. We are both retired now. He does not have any retirement. How old are you, gosh?

I'm 60, he's 64. He took Social Security early. He was working at that time, and then when you start taking Social Security, you can only work so many hours. You can only make so much money. So that knocked his availability down to where he really couldn't work very much. But since then, we've both retired and relocated. So what do you feel like the core question is?

I think I'm just trying to figure out if I'm being taken advantage of. Is this just something where I'm being, you know, I've brought something up several times and I just, nothing changes, nothing changes.

It just stays the same. And I don't know if I, well, I guess what my next step should be. Hold on. This isn't a money issue. This is a respect issue. You don't respect the man that you're married to. Because, like, I bring home a quote-unquote income to the house, but my wife, my God almighty, if she disappeared, the house would go away.

So I don't look at her and say, wow, you're not contributing to this thing. And I'm paying for dinner all the time because my money is our money. Right. And the home that she keeps and runs and her small business like that's ours, too. But there's a mutual respect there. This doesn't have to do with money. And you mentioned earlier, you don't want a thing. You don't want your marriage to be where you're paying for everything. It is.

That is the world you set up. So the only thing you can do from this point forward is to create something new. But this is a respect issue. This isn't a, I just need him to pitch in issue. Have you been very clear about what you need or has it been a, ah, you know, like, man, I sure am paying for a lot. And he might be thinking, well, it's our money. Have you been very clear with him? I'm not, no. I'm very afraid of confrontation. I get very nervous about

talking about something like this. And then you end up in resentment land because you spend a ton of time having imaginary conversations in your head, don't you? Yes. Oh, I do. That's cruel and unfair to him. And doubt. Yes. So if you're going to be mad at him... Kind of hard on your brain, too. Yeah. If you're going to be mad at him, he at least...

deserves to know what he could do give him a path back to relationships right now he married somebody with a lot of money and he might think he's fulfilling his duties as your husband by being the fun loving guy that just whatever whatever partridge in a pear tree he needs to know you don't respect him yeah i do i do love him and i don't want uh i don't want anything and i don't what does he need to do to be a person that you would respect

Because he doesn't need to work. You guys are retired. No, no. It's not a work ethic thing. What is it that he's supposed to do that makes him valid in your mind? I think just pitching in, say, I don't know, $1,000 a month, something. Pitch in from what? Where's he got money? He has Social Security money and he gets other money. So you guys don't have your finances combined at all?

We do have a joint checking account, but he's never put any money in it. So, no. But does he have an avenue to do that? He could, yeah. He could put money in there, yeah, because he's on the account. But if he's looking at your vast amount of money in that account and he looks at his piddly government check...

Yeah. See what I'm saying? Like he needs to know. And I, again, I think he's going to put a thousand dollars in that account and that's not what the issue is going to be. Yeah. If he started depositing a thousand dollars a month in that account, you'd be right back here in six months. I don't know if I would be, I don't, it's really, it's to me, it's like you just said, it's not about money. It's more about, um, respect. And I think because this has gone on for so long and,

You know, I've allowed it to go on so long and this pattern's been set now. I want to rewrite the rules, I guess. Well, since y'all are married, y'all get to rewrite them together. Right. And so I think it's a matter of sitting down and having a conversation and say, hey, we've been married for a few years. I need you to do this to have me have positive, respectful feelings towards you. And what can I do for you so that you can have positive, respectful feelings towards me? Yes.

Let's put all of it on the table. Let's give each other a chance for success. Yeah. A hundred percent of what you don't say, he can't hear. Right. Yeah. I've been married 43 years. I'm still working on that. Dave, I am too, man. I am too. The things that are in Sharon's head that I have never heard are amazing. But you're in trouble for them. I'm always in trouble. You better fix them. What's wrong? Nothing. This is The Ramsey Show.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills? How

I'm going to eat next week. Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You've got to say it out loud, and you've got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of a stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282, or go to zander.com.

Thanks for joining us, America. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. We appreciate you guys hanging out. Merry Christmas to you. Hey, if you like what you hear around here, we could use your help. Please help us. Subscribe. Click the subscribe button. Click the share button or share a link or tell somebody where you're listening or watching or wherever it is, you're YouTubing or TBNing or whatever it is you're doing.

you know, Spotify, right? Apple podcast, whatever it is. Maybe you're listening on a radio station out there. Thank you. Just share and leave us a five-star review, please. We'd appreciate it very much. Merry Christmas to you. Shay is with us. Shay is in Daytona. Hi, Shay. Merry Christmas. Hi, Merry Christmas. Good. How can we help?

Hi. So just to cut right to the chase, I just took out my first student loan ever. Super nerve wracking. It's for my master's in social work and it's about $45,000. That's without the interest. So I'm just trying to figure out what's a great path to start on that, like how to tackle it super fast because I don't want to be with this debt for like 10 years. You just took out your first loan for a semester or you just finished a degree program and you have $45,000 in the hole?

No. So it's like $6,000 a semester, but they just gave it all to me at once. So it's $45,000 is what they gave me at once. Who's they? I've never heard of that ever. It's financial aid, FAFSA. So they just cut you a check and deposit it for $45,000? Yeah.

Well, not into my bank. It goes directly to my school. And then they start paying it that way. So it's already given to my school, and my school just takes it out. Okay, so you're starting your master's, and you just finance the whole thing. Well, Dave, I bet what's happened is I bet you've been approved for the entire program.

I bet they don't have a check. I bet your university doesn't have a check for $45,000 because they wouldn't prepay like that because you could quit, you can drop out, it could be a whole thing. But my guess is you were approved for the program and the school gave you a letter that said you've qualified for $45,000 in federal aid and every semester you're going to have to re-up and re-up and re-up and re-up. Okay. That's my guess as to what happened. I've never heard the government prepay. So you're just starting your master's.

Yes. And you're spending $45,000 to get a master's in social work to make what kind of money? Not enough. It's about 90 grand, which would be the salary for it. There's no way you'll make 90 grand. That is the salary in Florida for it. Where? Right now. I work at a hospital. And a starting social worker with an LMSW makes $90,000? Yes.

Not starting out, no, but I've been doing social work and case management and all that stuff for years. So with the experience and once I get it, I'm already making $50,000 right now, so they're bumping it up. Wow. That's extraordinary. Good for them because that's a field that needs more people that drastically is usually underpaid. As a guy who's taught graduate school and mental health programs, I've lived this world, what I would plead to you is,

is to, you make $50,000 a year. I would cut back for the next three years and cash flow this program. Please, please, please don't chain yourself to the federal government and then try to go into a serving profession. It's a recipe for burnout and it's just going to melt you from the inside out. Please don't do this. Yeah.

Yeah, that was one of my big fears. It's just like, I definitely don't want it lingering for so long, too. And when it comes to money, I just have really bad anxiety over it. The way it doesn't linger is you don't take it. Don't take it.

Don't take the check. Pay cash for your degree is what John's saying. $6,000 a semester. Go pay it outright for the three semesters plus your 3,000 hours, whatever you have to do. Your hospital not got any financial matching for education? No, because I'm not a nurse. They only have it for nurses. Okay. And what enticed me to it was because they said at first that they would, and then when I got here, they said, oh, sorry, no, it's just for nurses. Yeah, I'd find another place to work, too, while you're at it.

I'm serious. 100% serious. If they're going to lure you in and then they're going to bait and switch you, that's a company without integrity. I wouldn't work for them. Mm-hmm.

Gotcha. And I know this is a radical shift, but I would go to the school and say, hey, I need my semester by semester cost. And they're probably going to tell you, well, it depends if you take six or nine hours, whatever, and say, what is a full-time and what is a part-time student going to cost? And then you make $50,000 a year until you find another job where you'll make $60,000. I want you to cash flow this program. So what we're trying to tell you is that uneasy feeling inside of you when you –

Called is real. It's right. And it's telling you don't do this. And we're telling you it's right. Don't do it. The best way to get this degree is pay cash for it and, you know, look for someone, maybe another employer that pays 90 when you're out, but also will help with the education like this one promised, but it was reneged on.

And so let's do a couple things here that are pretty radical. But if you kind of just, you sound pretty chill, and if you kind of just allow all this to happen to you, it's going to step on your face. Don't allow this to happen. You need to stand up, square your shoulders, and head straight into this with your teeth, you know, with a warrior yell, girl. I mean, you need to get after it. John's in Jackson, Mississippi. Hey, John, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, how's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I have a question about getting an SBA loan to purchase a business. What's your thoughts on that? Never. Never? Never, under any circumstances. Okay. It's a disaster. Why would you buy a small business? Well, so I travel a lot.

10 months out of the year, and my wife stays at home with kids, and it's a taxing life. We're trying to find a happy medium for everybody, and we stumbled what we think is a good opportunity, per se. What is the industry that the business you're looking at is in? Making signs. Okay, and how much is the purchase? Approximately $1.2 million. Yes, sir. For a sign franchise? Yes.

It's not a franchise. It's a person that started the business, and he's looking to retire. Okay. Let me give you a different way to skin this cat, maybe. Okay. But let me, 80% of small businesses fail in the first five years. Okay. The number one cause of small business failure when we survey them, and we work with 10,000 small businesses in Entree Leadership right now,

is what's called cash flow problems. Cash flow problems is a phrase that means a lot of things, but it primarily means two things. I can't pay my debt payments, and I didn't pay my taxes on time, and I get screwed by the federal government. And so you're going to have a million two floating around your neck trying to drag you down while you're trying to run a business this guy's already been running for a few years.

and that's like trying to swim with an anchor tied around your ankle. It's a bad plan. So let's go at this a different way. What is the net profit on his business? He pays himself a salary. No, what's the net profit on the business? On average over the last four years is around $250,000. Okay. A million twos is a little rich.

Yeah. We know that part of it. We're in the beginning process. We're trying to figure out what to do. Here's how I've taught some people who hand the business to the next generation and want to be bought out, or they have the employee or a buyer like you that want to be bought out. I don't want you to get payments on a million, too, and Fauci decide we're having another quarantine. Me neither. Okay. That'll put you into bankruptcy court, sir.

It did a bunch of people. And because nobody making signs, they were making plexiglass, but they weren't making signs. So you were screwed if that was, if you'd done this two years ago. So learn a lesson from that. Now, what you can do is agree to pay him 80 or 90% of the profits after you take a basic small salary out until he gets his million and about a million is about what it's worth.

But if you made $250,000 a year on it and you gave him 90% of it, you'd have him paid out in four and a half years. Versus getting a loan, per se. Exactly. And he'd get his money really, really fast that way. But you're living on a wage until you get him off your back. But if profits go down, you're only committed to give him a percentage of profits. So you're not bankrupt then. SBA will come take your house, dude.

Fake it till you make it. It's popular career advice, but it doesn't work for very long. If you don't love what you do, you can't fake the enthusiasm and energy you need to win at work. You also can't fake your physical health and energy. Everybody knows we should eat more fruits and veggies, but fruit chews and veggie chips don't count. If you aren't winning physically, I promise you're limiting your opportunities to win professionally.

Folks, I know you're going hard right now to pay off debt and get ahead professionally. You need another gear, and that's why Balance of Nature will help you. They help me. They give me the benefits of fresh, whole fruits and veggies in just seconds.

The blend of 31 different fruits and veggies is powdered in an advanced process that locks in the nutrients. So go to balanceofnature.com and enter the promo code RAMSEY to get 35% off your first order and lock in a lifetime price as a preferred customer. That's balanceofnature.com with the promo code RAMSEY for 35% off your first order.

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Well, it's Christmastime. Merry Christmas. You can get Meaningful Grifts for Christmas during our $12 sale right now. Our best-selling books, The Total Money Makeover, Baby Steps Millionaires, John's number one bestseller, the first one he did, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, all just $12. The Questions for Human Cards, Conversations, the Christmas edition is back. They sold out really quick last year. We've got the New Year's Eve edition today.

For your friends and family, it's a lot of fun. Meaningful gift for everyone there. Check it out, ramsaysolutions.com slash store. Maggie's in Atlanta. Hi, Maggie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Hey, so I'm just calling today. I've been listening for about two to three months now. I'm 20 years old. I've been doing an every dollar budget for about a month now, and I am needing to get my own place.

um, and I mean, ASAP, and I don't even know the first place to start preparing for it. Um, my income is fairly low and my monthly bills are pretty high. So I just wanted to call in and, and what is your advice? My income is, um, 2300 monthly. What do you do? Um, I process medical records right now. Okay. And you're 20 years old.

Yes, sir, 20, and I only have a high school diploma. Okay. Are you looking for new work? Because your income sucks. Yeah. Yeah, it does. I've been looking around to see what I can do, but with no degree and nothing but nothing. No degree is not a holdback at all. Yeah, I live in rural Tennessee. I saw a sign the other day that said McDonald's had $20 an hour.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, I do have a side hustle that I am starting after the holidays are over. I'm starting a side hustle, and that'll be like $15 an hour, but that's only the weekend that I can do a side hustle because my job now is a 9-to-5. So what? What happens after 5? After 5, I come home and I have... After 5 is when you work from 5 a.m. to 9 a.m. When you're broke, that's when you work.

Yeah, I do have a, well, I kind of have a one-year-old. My boyfriend has a one-year-old. You can't kind of have a one-year-old. That's impossible. That's physically impossible. It's not your baby you're saying. Yes. Your boyfriend has a one-year-old. Mm-hmm. I'm sorry, baby, you're broke. You're not babysitting your boyfriend's kid when you're broke, and you've got to get a place to live, and you don't have the money, right? Mm-hmm.

I don't think I have the money to know. Right now I'm living with my sister. I've been out on my own since I was like 17, 18. I've been living in people's rooms and just renting rooms. And now I kind of want a place for just me and my boyfriend and his son. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're not in a position to be taking care of people.

No, no, no. If he wants to get married and take care of you, we'll talk about it. What does he make? He's not working right now. Oh, this is real good. Maggie. Maggie, are you hearing yourself out loud? He's a firefighter. Yes, sir. Yeah, yes, sir. If you were talking to your daughter and your daughter was you, you'd smack her. Well, I wish my mama would have. Yeah, I know. But, I mean, you listen to yourself.

I'm going to move in with a guy who has a one-year-old and doesn't work. And I have to take care of the kids. And I'm supposed to take care of these people. I think you need to go somewhere where there's grown-ups.

Well, he's he why he's not working right now is he's becoming a firefighter. So he that doesn't start until the beginning of January, though. So right now he's just waiting to see. So right now he's not in school to be a firefighter. He's only waiting for which firehouse he's going to be doing. So why is he sitting on his butt during Christmas?

Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. He should be driving for Uber from 5 to 8, 5 a.m. to 8 a.m. You want to date my daughter, you work. And then work all day and then delivering pizzas at night because that's what men do when they don't have a job and they have a one-year-old. Yeah, yeah, and he hasn't worked for about like eight months now. I can almost guarantee you, I can almost guarantee you he's not going to the fire academy. You know how I know? Firemen don't live like that. That's not the character of a fireman.

I know those men and those women. They work their fire shifts, and then they have another job, and they have another job on top of that. You know why? Because they are so invested in working and going out and serving their communities. I can almost guarantee you he won't go to the fire academy. No, he's already gone, hadn't he?

Well, he's waiting to hear back. Oh, he hasn't started yet. No, Dave, he hasn't even started the fire academy yet. He hasn't worked for eight months. Oh, I thought he just finished. He was waiting to get a sign of job. Hold on. He is a one-year-old. How has he not worked for eight months? Have you supported him?

yeah oh my his mom his mom does a lot and then um maggie maggie please talk listen to two old farts okay both of us have daughters run run as fast as you can run oh no yes oh yes i don't think i hear that okay i'm sorry i can't help you darling you're running blind into the wall and you're going you're gonna you're gonna blow the car up when you hit it oh i'm sorry

Honey, you've been a survivor. You've bounced from room to room. You left home at 17 years old. Your mama didn't tell you not to do this stuff. Two guys who love you and love our daughters are telling you if you were our daughter, we would get rid of Mr. Fireman. He would just disappear somewhere. We wouldn't be able to find him. You're being preyed upon, sweetheart. I'm telling you, this is not going to happen. All right. And so, uh,

Uh, you need an ugly, angry, older brother or father like one of us. And we would tell him to go away. And if he didn't, we'd help you go away because you got the stuff to go get it done in the marketplace. Girl, you can go out there, get you three jobs, get you an apartment, start you a life, start taking a degree field. I'll send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book from paycheck to purpose. You can start working on your career. You're sharp talking to you, but your judge of men is sucks.

And when you have a man with a one-year-old who's responsible, he doesn't work for eight months, we call that a deadbeat, a burnout. And if you ever listen to me talk or listen to my show, I'm overly compassionate. And I've got zero compassion for a man who's got a toddler who's letting a 20-year-old girl living in her sister's house take care of them. Zero. None. Zero, zero, zero. You have a daughter. You have a child. Yeah. My goodness. I...

Please, Maggie. He should be ashamed of himself, man. But you're not going to do it, and you're going to learn the hard way, and you're going to call me up at 25, and you're going to go, yeah, you were right, and now I've got all this debt because I went and bought him a car, and we rented an apartment, and he didn't pay the bill, and the landlord threw us out, and I've got a judgment lien from the landlord, and you're going to be that caller.

If you go through with this, please do not go move in with this guy. If you don't dump him, that's your business. I think you're on the way to dumping him. You should be. But for sure, for God's sake, quit giving him money and don't move in with him. And let's say this. So for those of you who have grown up the last five or six years, like Maggie, you're on your own. You're bouncing from room to room to room. And you spend a lot of time on social media. It appears that things just happen. It appears that bills just get paid.

And what you're finding out is, oh, I only make $2,300, but I have an inside job in a medical community. And it feels like I'm connected to something bigger. And I'm not working at McDonald's, for God's sakes. Or I'm not going to throw boxes at Walmart. I would never do that. And you're going to realize that things don't just happen.

You have to make enough money. It's a math problem to make enough money to pay for your rent and for your water and for your food and for your electricity and for your car. All these things are very expensive, which means you got to go get one job. You got to get two jobs. You got to get three jobs. And then you develop a plan that is a career where you don't have to work 80 hours a week. There you go. But it takes a few years to get into that. But most of us that are older than 30 have worked more than 40 hours a

like more than 80 hours, the first five years of our working life or 10 of our life, um, or more. Yeah. And so, um, and, and that's not a, uh, you're, you're, you have no life balance. No, I have a life that you wish you freaking had. I can tell you that you just wish you had a 10th of my life.

But I've worked my tail end off to get here. That was a good self-censor, Dave. I got that. You got it. Just right there. Right there. This is The Ramsey Show.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey good folks, the back-to-school madness is upon us. It's hitting us right now. We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on. My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects. And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

Here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first. And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole. And I know that you have to do those same things too. So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments. And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at betterhelp.com.

BetterHelp is 100% online therapy staffed with licensed therapists. It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule. And therapy can help you learn positive coping skills, how to set and practice boundaries, how to become the best version of yourself, and most importantly, how to find peace in all of this chaos. In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first. Never skip therapy day.

Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Delaunay today for 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Delaunay. Dr. John Delaunay Ramsey, personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. This show has become inordinately successful with 30 million of you so far.

are so out there in a given month on YouTube's podcast, on the various platforms, the 680 radio stations that carry us, because we understand that personal finance is not math. The problem with my money is the guy I shave with. The mathematics of becoming wealthy are somewhere, you learn them somewhere around the sixth grade.

This is not an intellect problem. This is a behavior problem. If I can get the moron in my mirror to behave, he can be skinny and rich, but he's got issues and he engages in stupid people tricks to the extent that I have dysfunction in my relationships. I'm going to struggle to build wealth to the extent that I have a

dysfunction in my behaviors, like a lack of work ethic, a lack of integrity, other character issues, I'm going to struggle to build wealth. And so there is a tie-in between your emotional well-being, your relational acumen that is more

predictive of your ability to become wealthy than your income. In other words, it doesn't matter what you make if you're addicted to cocaine, you're going to lose everything. 100% of addicts, as an example of this discussion, end up broke eventually, 100% eventually, some in 10 months, some in 10 years.

And they lose everything. That's a misbehavior that caused that. It's not a math problem that caused that. It wasn't they didn't understand how mutual funds work. It wasn't that they didn't earn an income. A lot of cocaine addicts earn a great income. And they hide their addiction. But if you don't know how to interact with the opposite sex and you continually choose poorly in your mate, you are going to

make it almost impossible to create a sustainable financial life. Isn't that weird? Yeah, and I'm just haunted by like that last call haunts me because when you say it, like you won't accept this for your own child. Everyone goes, no, I would never accept that. But you just become blind to it and you just keep doing it and you just keep doing it and you keep doing it. And you wonder, you keep going back to the money issue. Why are we broke? Why are we broke? Why are we broke?

You gotta let this predator who is preying on you and your time, you gotta let him go. I ain't doing that. All right, well, there's not like a crypto secret we can tell you to help you make money. There's not like a budgeting hack we can give you.

you and him have to go work. It's just tough, man. If you're not connected with your spouse, you're going to have trouble. It can be a relational thing. I mean, it's, you know, one of the jokes that we had in the early days of the show was, you know, if you marry a woman that likes spending, you better enjoy working. Right. You know, and so, but it's also the opposite way. Absolutely. If you marry a man that likes spending, you better enjoy working.

Uh, and so, cause you can't, but you cannot earn it and you can't keep up. And the correlation among millionaires between spouses that work together and that both shoulder the load together, it's almost a hundred percent of them. Yeah. There are very few people build wealth dragging a deadbeat along.

are dragging someone who's misbehaving in some area of their life along. Someone who won't work, someone who can't tell the truth, someone that won't file their taxes, someone that, you know, lies all the time. You know, just these dysfunctional people that are in all of our lives to the extent that they were wrapped up with them

pretty much ensures that we're going to create a situation where you can't build a sustainable financial situation. Yeah. And one of the reasons I've been able to build wealth is my wife is a freaking rock. Right. She's a rock. I mean, the amount of drama in 43 years I've had at home when I got home at night with little kids at home was precisely zero. Yeah.

The only drama in my house, I bring it. Occasionally there was drama before I got there. Right. But it's not like wait till your daddy gets home. No. Fear the wrath of Sharon instead. You know, I mean, it's like there is not a, you know, I was not having to carry three or four things around while I was at work. I was carrying work around. And it's why we were able to make such progress. Yeah, it's fun. They say that one of the greatest determinants for success

joy happiness in your life is marrying well it's the most important decision you make because marrying poorly um it's disproportionate how bad your life is and marrying well it's disproportionate how wonderful it makes your life but our friend dr henry cloud with the book boundaries whether it is your marriage partner or not just the other people in your life your business partner your your buddy suck the marrow out of your bones right

Because you won't put up a boundary. Right. Or for some reason don't know to put up a boundary. You weren't raised in such a way. Well, I was raised, you always take care of daddy. Well, did you notice that your daddy is a problem? Right. Or, well, that's just so-and-so, like, stop. That's just the way he is. I would love, a great exercise for folks is to write down the top five to 10 to 15 people in your life. They can be coworkers, they can be family members, they can be friends. Right.

If you're lucky, you got 10 in this current world we live in. If you're exceptionally lucky, if you got 15. Write them down and just draw a line across the paper and say vampire or contributor. Is this a person that when I get done being around them, I'm just like, ugh. Or I get done being around them and I can't wait to go hang out again.

They are somebody that brings me up. And I challenge you in 2024 to find opportunities to be around vampire people less. Yeah. And be around those who...

pour into you who are excited who challenge you more and that doesn't mean you get along all the time like some of the people who contribute most of my life man we are button heads all the time and i love them and i i believe there's very similar things with some of the most vampiric people i just made that word up that just you get done you're just like golly dude i feel like i was just slogging through quicksand well i mean when you come out of a meeting or you come out of a social uh gathering with someone and you feel like you need to take a shower

I don't want to repeat this. Right. I'm done. Right. And my wife's like, well, we need to be nice. No, I don't need to be nice. We need to be nice to us so that we can be nice. I'm not going to be nice. I can be nice from a further distance. I'll wave from over there, you know? But this close physical proximity with slime is a problem, you know? And it's, you

And it's okay. It's not that I'm a snob. No, I like you, but I'm not going to hang out with you. I can be nice to you. I can help you. I love you. I'm not going to. I can encourage you, but you're not going to be part of my crew. That's right. Yeah. Because you become who you hang around with. And if you find out that you're married to somebody who is more of a vampire than a contributor...

This is the year. Let this be the year that you put that on the table and say, let's build something new. Let's build something new. I'm taking your sharp teeth. Yeah. Or like the first caller of this hour that I'm going to be clear for the first time because I find myself, I don't like you. I don't want to be around you. The things you do annoy me. And I kind of hem and haw and hint. I've never just been honest with you. I've just never told you. Let's put all that on the table this year. Turn the lights on. Decide to...

heal this thing moving forward because at some point um there are people on the margins that are struggling that's not who i'm talking to i'm talking to most of us most of us at some point choose the relationships we have and we choose the the dance that we choose to do in those things and at some at some point somebody's got to pull pull the pull the ripcord and say this this one's over this one's over we're going to build something and the reason for the sidebar right now is this this is the time of year to look at this and say

Okay, I want you to leave from this little rant that we've done for the last five minutes. I want you to leave with this idea. Who you hang around with and who you are going to create relationship with is 100x more important towards whether you're able to build wealth than whether you understand how a mutual fund works or what your income is. They're going to screw up your life if you let them. This is The Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, host of The Dr. John Deloney Show, one of our more popular podcasts.

On the Ramsey Network's number one best-selling author of Building a Non-Anxious Life is the latest number one that we did with him. It's a great book. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Merry Christmas, America. Travis is in Baltimore. Hi, Travis. How are you?

Hey, John, thanks for having me. Sure. I'll make this as quick as I can. I'm 31 years old, married. We have two kids. We don't own a home yet. Currently five weeks into Financial Peace University. We've paid off $1,000 of our debt so far. We have currently $44,000 in debt. My question for you is my previous employer had a profit sharing system set up

Uh, so, um, in March, I've been away from them for a year now. I went back over the road. Um, so in March I can decide whether I want to roll my money over to something or if I want to cash out, however I want to do it. I have $51,000 in that account. Should I, or could I use that money to wipe out baby step number two and start baby step number three and freebie? I think that's a qualified plan, meaning it's a type of retirement plan. Am I right?

Yes. So if you cash it out early, you're going to get a 10% penalty plus your tax rate. So what do you make a year? What's your household income? So I make $100,000. My wife works part-time. She makes about $20,000. Okay. All right. And so you're in 35% tax bracket. So you're going to pay 35% plus 10% on the money. So it's kind of mathematically like asking, hey, Dave, I want to borrow money at 45% interest rate.

to pay off some of my debt, that would be a dumb thing, right? Mm-hmm. So we're not going to do that. Yeah, we're going to roll it over. Go to Ramsey Solutions and click on SmartVestor Pro and find a good solution.

a good financial broker in your area that we recommend that you can sit down with and help you do that rollover, and you need to roll it over into an IRA and not pay any taxes on it at all and let it grow. I just don't want to give up half the money or so to the government in the name of getting out of debt. That's a bad plan. But you're making $120,000 and you only owe $44,000, right? And you're just getting started.

So the good news is you've gone into attack mode, and if you just keep turning up the heat on the attack mode, you'll probably be debt-free in under two years. Okay. Hey, Travis, can I challenge you a bit? I'm sorry? Can I challenge you a little bit? Sure. You've been in the class five weeks? Yeah, tonight is week number five, yes. Excellent. So you make $120,000.

Have you only paid off $1,000? Do you have a pretty expensive lifestyle you're living? Well, no. We started budgeting with every dollar, and we literally just started. So John's point is this. If you look at the big number, $120 minus $44,

would be like $76,000. If you lived on $76,000 for one year, you'd be debt-free, not counting taxes. So that's his point, and that's not $1,000 a month. That's more like $4,000 a month. I challenge you to get radical. Find what you can sell in your house. Do you have tractors, guitars? I want you to lean down. That's what I'm saying. I think you're going to lean down into that budget. If you did it in two years, that's $2,000 a month.

But $1,000 a month is not enough out of your budget. You need to cut more than that and get after the debt. But all of that to say, that's the way to go. John's exactly right. And let's go ahead and roll that money over so you don't give the government half of that. And then just, you know, beans and rice, rice and beans. We're not going out to eat.

We're not going on vacation. We're going to attack this using the every dollar budget, and we're going to get it cleared up. And for the first time in your life, you're going to be free, and it's going to be worth it. It's going to be a complete pain in the butt for the next 18 to 24 months, but it's going to be worth it. Hey, thanks for calling in, man. Joe's with us in Atlanta. Hi, Joe. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, John. Nice to talk to you guys. You too. What's up?

Yes. So I got a question. This is about 529 plans. I have two kids, one six, one four, and then we just found out we have two coming next year, so we'll have a total of four. Yay! All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty exciting. Once we got over the shock of having two at a time. So my question is, we have a surplus of

funds for this year we are 100 debt free no mortgage no cars no debts of any kind no credit card i hate it when i know it's it's hard where you go would you run for congress if uh if i have any interest i would hear you he's like brother i was thinking dave but i'm also thinking about setting myself on fire yeah yeah yeah yeah

So my question is, on the Georgia 529 plan, it's tax deductible up to $8,000 per kid per year. And we can only have two right now because I think you need a Social Security number for each account you set up. You do. That's right. Would you recommend, so we have a good amount of extra just for,

Putting a lump, I know we can put more in than 8,000. Would you consider putting like 50 grand in for each kid and just being done with it? Yeah.

or put it somewhere else and then every year put a little bit more in. No, I mean, you can do that. The downside is 529, of course, has to be used for education, and any growth on the money is going to be taxed if you pull it out for something other than, and penalized if you pull it out for something other than education. So that's your downside. So...

along with making a commitment to put $50,000, which pretty well finishes it up if you're doing this for young children. That'll be it. They can cover undergrad with that. You're done. Check the box. You're out. I'm not sure if this is a new rule, but you can do $10,000 a year for...

for a private school k through 12 i believe that that's true what it is so if we would do like high school private school that's true you could drain it down during that but but the uh if you don't put them in private school and they don't go to college you got some money trapped in there that's my only point and that's okay yeah we just say that out loud which means when i started my kids college funds they were young like yours and i just brainwashed them i said this your college fund your college fund is your college fund which presupposes you're going to college

And so, you know, now we're going to college and study left-handed puppetry. We're going to go study something that actually works in the marketplace, right? We don't want to get some nuanced, useless freaking degree and then be a barista. That's not the plan. But, but yeah, we, we, but yeah, all of that. Yeah, I would do that. I would do that. And now with a Georgia 529, do not do the prepaid tuition. You do not do that. You're investing in mutual funds that you control the options and

and that you can decide where they go to school. You're not trapped in with prepaid. Don't do prepaid. That's not a good deal because the rate of return suck on that. And your options are very limited. So good question, man. Thanks for calling. Thank you for joining us, America. This is the Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host. Tonya is with us in Philadelphia. Hi, Tonya. What's up?

Hi. So I'm calling because I have a question. So I'm 25 years old. I'm a single mother. My income is about $47,000 a year, and I have about $18,000 in debt. I have $16,000 of that is a vehicle that I'm

So they repoed it.

Yeah, so I'm in a situation where the car that I have right now has 192,000 miles on it, so it's going out on me, and I'm in need of a new vehicle. And being that I have that repo on my credit, I'm having a hard time getting approved for another vehicle. Good. It's the greatest thing that ever happened to you, honey. Last thing you need is a car payment, kiddo. You're broke. Yeah. But you do need a car.

yes wait when you say it's going out on you my truck has 197 000 miles on it is it just ugly or is it no no it's not ugly the um it's just starting to fall apart on me like i just put 1500 into it trying to fix it and it's still giving me problems okay all right so so the car is probably worth what two thousand dollars

No, not even with the problems that it has. And you said you make what? About 47. Okay. How many kids you got? Just one. How old? He's three. He's four. Okay. Who watches him when you work? He is a daycare. Okay. So, yeah. Because the reason I'm asking is I'm trying to find you some money because I want you to scrape together. Like you found the $1,500 to fix the car?

I want you to scrape together $1,500 to $2,000, sell your car for $2,000 and buy a $4,000 car, which is a whole lot better than you've got now, but no car payments. Okay. And then I want you to do that again about a year from now. Okay. I don't want you to drive that car the rest of your life, but car payments are going to hold you back so much. It sounds like it's going to be, you're just so sick of having a crappy car that

That's unreliable and the stress that goes with that, that it makes you jump ahead. And in your mind, just having something that's reliable is worth the pain of the payment. And I'm trying to tell you before you get there, it's not.

Yeah. No, I'm just getting to the point where like I'm a little frustrated. Yeah. You know, you're a lot frustrated. I would be. I'm frustrated with you. Yeah. I understand and I agree with your frustration. I don't want it to lead you to a bad decision and it's about to. So let's avoid car payments. I'm so glad you did not get approved because if you had gotten approved, it would have been at a high ripoff subprime interest rate because you have a repo on your record. Yeah. And so you would have been screwed double.

Yeah. Yeah, don't do that to yourself. Let's go pay cash for a... The difference in a $4,000 car and a $2,000 car is very dramatic. Yeah. Okay. Now, are you in a good church? I do. I do attend a church. Do you have some guys around anywhere that could be your ugly uncle for a day or two and help you pick out a reliable car and not let someone mess with you because they think they can?

but instead the ugly uncle standing there and saying, you know, this car is not real pretty, but it's a really good, reliable mechanical car. That's the one you buy when you're buying a $4,000 car. We're not trying to buy a sex appeal. We want reliability. Of course, yeah. And sometimes when you're negotiating with someone on that, people are sexist, and they'll do stuff for an old, ugly uncle they wouldn't do for a sweet young lady.

Yeah. Or put a note in your church bulletin or let your folks know I'm looking for a great $3,500 car. I'm a single mom with a three-year-old and I need a reliable $4,000 car. Would someone help me find one? Okay. You'll have people that raise their hand. Yeah, you might have somebody give you one. Hey, and by the way, you don't like asking for help, do you?

I'm not. I am actually a police officer. So that's really hard for me to be that kind of person to, you know, like reach out and ask for help. All right. Hold on. This is important. You have cast, quote unquote, those kind of people as people who ask for help. I want you to reframe that.

I want you to know that the wisest people I know ask other wise people for support and help about things they don't know. Okay. And so it's not those people that ask for help. It's you. It's me. It's Dave. It's all of us. The wisest people I know reach out to other wise people and say, Hey, what do you think about this? Can you help me out with this?

And so this is you stepping into a whole new identity. I don't go in and negotiate on something myself, and I'm a really good business guy and a real good negotiator, but I don't go into an item or a situation that I know nothing about. I don't have any expertise in. I bring along the old ugly uncle myself.

Okay. And that's a really ugly uncle for Dave to bring. If Dave says he's an ugly uncle, oh my God.

yeah well yes yeah that i mean i mean you know that's you bring in the heavy you bring in somebody besides you and so if i'm negotiating on a tech thing i don't know nothing about tech i got 400 people at work here that do that though and so i'm going to bring in my top guy who's going to razzle dazzle him with his academic and says all the tech words right and and they're like oh god these people know what they're doing you know but when they're looking at me they're pretty sure i don't well and similarly um

I guess the appearance is we have all the answers to every one of life's questions. A bunch of acres behind my place went up for sale, and I immediately thought, oh yeah, I know a guy. His name's Dave, and I work with him. And so I said, Dave, this is what they're asking. And you said,

That's too much. And so I moved on. Right. And so it's every wise person I know asks other wise people. I don't know anybody that knows Middle Tennessee real estate better than you do. And so why would I? I'd be foolish to not ask you that question. Right. So ask people in your life for support and help however you can, man, whether it's wisdom or whether it's handy to come help me do this thing that I can. You can do it better. I can do it better with you than I can do it by myself. That's right. And that's all we're saying. And yeah. And thank you. Thank you for being a policeman.

In Philadelphia. Policewoman in Philadelphia. Policeperson, whatever we call that. I don't know. I cannot figure out how to do it. But anyway, I was trying to be nice, and then John screwed it up. Got all woke. All right. Anyway. Good stuff. Open phones at 888-825-5225. So, guys, here's the thing. Cars, her situation with cars is a big deal. We did the exact thing.

I did exactly this. A guy loaned me a car that was probably worth $300 because I didn't have a car. Well, I had one and I need a second one. And it was a 1978 Cadillac with 478,000 actual miles on it. The vinyl roof was torn loose across the front. So when you drove it, it filled up with air and looked like a flying parachute. And the predominant color was Bondo. That's the car I was driving. When you're driving that car,

anything is moving up a thousand dollar car is a thousand dollar car is moving way up and i got a thousand dollar car i did and i gave my buddy his car back it was a loaner he loaned it to me for a month and i found a thousand dollars miraculously because i wasn't driving that i can see you honking i've been driving a jaguar and i went bankrupt and now i'm driving bondo buggy with a parachute on top

But I drove it to $1,000. And then three months later, I bought a $3,000 car. Five months later, I bought a $10,000 car. And every time I just move up a little bit. But the difference in a $10,000 car and a $1,000 car is very dramatic. It's significant. It's very dramatic. And none of that was with car payments. I did it. So I know Tonya can do it. Honking the horn. Look, shirt, I got a $1,000 car. When you pull up to the stoplight and your top is settling down,

and people are looking at you, you just turn up the rap music, right? I mean, come on, man. This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Merry Christmas.

Ramsey Show Question of the Day is sponsored by Neighborly, your hub for home services from repairs and maintenance to remodeling and upgrades. Neighborly's trusted home service providers have trained local experts to handle almost any job. Great company. Download the Neighborly app and connect today. All right, today's question comes from Sandra in Florida.

Sandra writes, my spouse's spending is crippling our finances and our marriage. Each month we have only about five to 600 left after monthly bills and minimum debt payments. And we only have a thousand dollars saved. I've tried to speak lovingly to my husband and let him know how much the overspending scares me and affects my mental health. I've also had moments of frustration and have blamed him for financial struggles, which I realize is not a healthy approach.

Seems all my efforts and approaches are futile. I understand the Ramsey principles behind joint accounts and have lived this way for years. But at what point in my marriage do I say enough and separate myself financially? Right before divorce. Yeah. And I think we're here. I think we're close. This is way bigger, Dave, than... I'm glad she had the courage to write, is crippling our finances and our marriage. Because this type of behavior tells me there's other issues in that marriage. It's not just money. Yeah, this guy is...

Kind of got the axis of the world stopped through the top of his head. Everything spins around him. He's the most important thing that ever lived. I'm telling you. His mama told him that. Yep. And now nobody tells him anything. Yeah. I just can't imagine, Dave. Again, I don't have a psychology for this. I can't imagine Sheila taking me out and saying anything I'm doing. You're scaring me to death.

And me going, yeah, I don't care. I just, I don't have that in my, I don't have that in my body. I don't understand that. I don't understand how you could respond to anybody that way. If the, if the waitress at, at Waffle House sat down and said, hey, the way you're doing things scares me. And I'm not, I don't feel safe. I don't think I could be like, I don't care. Like, I just don't have that in me, man. So I don't understand this dude at all. What a scumbag. I just don't get it. Don't get it.

So, yeah, it could be just an immaturity. It could be a lot of things in all seriousness, once I get past all my frustration and my name calling. So there's two issues with this email. Number one, you guys need to sit down with a marriage counselor, and if he won't go, go by yourself so that you can start to get language to how you're going to decide what

How much longer you're going to do this? Because my experience with this, and I'm not a counselor and I'm not trained like John is, but for 30 years I've done this and sat with couples. And my experience is particularly ladies, more so than men, they reach an end point and it boils and boils and boils. And then suddenly they go over the edge and the switch flips. And once it flips, there's no getting her back. Right. She's done. When she's done, she's like...

like roadkill, it's over, it's done and you can't get it back. And you're going to reach that boiling point. And if you don't do it intentionally with some help, with a good coach, a good marriage counselor to give you words, to do this in a very wise and reasonable way, it's all, it's going to sneak up on you and him.

And you're just going to go, I'm done. When somebody says the word futile, everything I've tried is for not, is for nothing. Yeah, that's lost hope. That's lost hope. That's right. And so you're getting really close. And I'm telling you, if there's a chance that you save this marriage, it's going to be with some help guiding you through how to communicate to him if you can get through to Jell-O brain here and get him to do this. Okay. Now, if you can and you turn it around, that's great. That's thing one. That's the route to go.

Hidden inside of this email is the question that I've been asked a bunch of times as a separate issue. How can I handle my money separately in a messed up marriage and it be okay? And the answer is you can't. You've got to make the marriage okay. If you want to have prosperity in your relationships and prosperity in your net worth,

It has to be done from a functional standpoint, not surviving a bunch of misbehavior and still prospering in spite of it. That just doesn't happen in my experience. We see almost never does someone overcome this guy not changing and somehow you create a tactical way to separate your money. And while you're still married to him and he continues to do the exact same thing, somehow you go off and become a millionaire. That does not happen.

That's just, that's mythology. There's not a tactic, a legal document, a process that causes you to be able to swim with an anchor around your ankle. And so you guys have got to work through this or work your way out of it to be able to have a great life for both of you. And he's, I think it's important to call out. This husband is not, um, being a person of fidelity. He is not upholding the marriage vows that said till sickness, um,

to sickness and health until death do us part. This is ours. Mine is yours and yours is mine. He's not doing that. He's saying, I really don't care about you. I just don't. I just don't. And it breaks my heart for you, Sandra. Breaks my heart. Sad. Very sad. Josh is in Illinois. Hi, Josh. What's up?

Hi, Dave. I really appreciate you giving me your time. I'm going to try to make this quick. So in 2021, so my family and I have always used a tax assistant to file our taxes. Now in 2021, apparently the taxes of both my dad and myself were filed incorrectly. And basically it's showing on

at first the CP 2000 notice. Now it's CP 32, 19, eight, uh, showing, uh, $0 was shown on return for several of my employers. And then when it says reported by others, and then it gives how much money I paid and the increase in tax or the deficiency on this is $9,548. And then a substantial tax understatement penalty is $583. Now, uh,

My question is... So the guy that did your taxes calculated your taxes wrong? That may very well be the case. Is that what you're telling me? I'm asking you. I'm making sure I understand what you're saying. Yes, yes. The taxes were filed incorrectly. Okay. And so you have a $10,000 tax bill that you didn't think you had. Right. And this was from 2021, and ever since 2021, even though they just found it, they've been charging interest and... Yeah, that's what they do. ...and stuff like that. Yeah.

Yeah. But the bottom line is, if they had been filed correctly, you would have owed $10,000. Correct. We received a refund that we probably should not have received yet. Right. And did you go, and have you had another tax professional look at the return and make sure that the IRS's proclamation is accurate?

Yes, sir. And here's the thing, actually, we know that this is accurate because it was a lady that did our returns that year. We are actually doing business right now with her sister. And not only did this original lady ghost our family,

over all this she's not even talking to her sister anymore and her and her sister had a fallen out over that that doesn't mean anything doesn't matter doesn't matter asking the question have you had a tax professional that knows what the flip they're doing this time actually go over this return and verify that you do owe nine thousand five hundred dollars plus penalties yes and so the sister is reliable right yeah you think why is she an enrolled agent a cpa what is she

She's an enrolled agent. Okay. All right. So you had a tax bill all along. You just didn't know it, and it's cost you $500 in addition to that. You're just going to pay it, man. I mean, there's not a lot you can do about this. They're not liable for your tax bill because they calculated it wrong. Are they liable for the penalty? Maybe. You might get $500 out of them, but it's not worth the dadgum trouble. Everybody in this story makes no sense. Yeah. So, you know, yeah, I would just pay it.

I mean, you can get an attorney, try to get 500 bucks out of the deadbeat if you want, but I don't. That's not. You'll pay more than $500 in fees. You're going to have to pay more than $500 to have a meeting. This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Renee and Edward are with us in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Hey, guys, how are you? Okay, we're good. How are you? Good. How can we help?

Well, so last year my wife ran in that apartment and the, uh, she really said she has mold poisoning and she went and the property manager guaranteed her an apartment that was bold three. Uh, she moved in, uh, three weeks later, had to move out, go to the emergency room, extremely sick from mold. She hired a independent mold inspector who came in, found, you know, test results showed that the

that the place was unlivable, toxic mold, and needed remediation. So the property manager said she could move out, pay an extra month's rent, and she'd release her from her lease agreement. Well, yesterday, we get a call from the credit collector saying she owes them almost $4,000.

It's $5,000. Well, right. They're willing to settle for $3,800. So I'm confused why your wife moved out and rented an apartment. I'm confused. Because we were separated. Oh, okay. That makes sense. And now you're back together. Yeah, because of this. Because of the mold? Because I had nowhere to go. Oh, okay. So my question, Dave, is should...

They're threatening that if she doesn't pay this, it'll ruin her credit, which is obvious. But should she pay them? Should we fight it? Should she not worry about her credit? But I can't work right now. I'm still very, very sick, so I can't work. Okay. What is your financial situation? I assume you don't have any money.

Well, I mean, we're debt-free. I work. He makes good money. He makes plenty of money. Yeah, I mean, she lives with me. She doesn't work. She's sick. But when she gets well, she wants to move out. So she doesn't want her credit ruined. Okay. Well, obviously the lesson learned is you didn't get it in writing. You got a verbal from the landlord, right? Right. So that's the lesson learned. This would have been a lot easier. Right.

The landlord is an individual or a manager of a complex? He's the property manager of the complex, but not the property management company, which is the one trying to collect the fees for the property contract. But this guy's an employee of them? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. So hardball would sound like this. Contact an attorney.

Um, first thing I would do is the two of you get in the car right over and meet with this manager that made you this promise. Okay. In person and say, look, you told me we were out. Now I'm getting hassled for five grand here.

I'm not going to pay the five grand. You told me we were out. I'll put you on the stand as a witness. And unless you're willing to perjure yourself, which is a criminal act, you will tell the court that you said I was out of the lease, at which point I will be out of the lease.

And so you need to get with your team over here and get this collections effort stopped. And I need in writing from you in the next couple of days that this is all going away and there's no problem. If you do that, I will not sue you for my medical bills because you misled me and put me in an apartment with mold.

If you do not do this, and I'm not out of this instantly, my attorney is going to sue you personally, sue your company for my lost wages and my medical bills and for release of this. But I don't want to play that. I would rather you just keep your word and your company keep your word and release me and we'll go on our way.

In person, very clear, do not raise your voice, do not use swear words, but very direct with deep eye contact representing anger. You follow me? I don't care. This is your best place to start. This is the cheapest way to fix this.

Okay. Because people that think when you get lawyers and you get into the court system that you get justice, there is no such thing. The only one that gets justice is the lawyer's kid whose tuition gets paid by you. Okay. This is not going to go anywhere else. But if you have to hire an attorney and go after these people, you go after them for your lost wages because they fraudulently misrepresented and cost you your health.

So we're not only going to go for release of the lease. We're going to go for compensation on top of that. We're going to make your freaking life miserable if you make me make a hobby out of you. Right. Right. We don't want to do any of this. You don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. They don't want to do it. And they need to hear that real clearly from you. The best thing they can do is just quickly get me a piece of paper that says I owe you zero, and I will simultaneously release you from your liability for lying to me and making me sick. Yeah. Yeah.

I'd probably have a manila folder with your medical bills, the report from the mold folks too. And I would ask him in that office to print off all of the bills he sent you over the last calendar year because it's probably going to be zero. Okay. All right. So subsequent to that, let's assume that that person is no longer employed there, which is most likely the scenario. Well, then talk to the current manager there and tell them what happened and tell them what you're going to do.

And let that manager see, if I'm the manager sitting there and you tell me that, I'm going to the regional manager who turned this over to collections and go, look, the doofus that was here before me screwed this lady. She's giving us an opportunity to get off light. We need to let her go. Right. Okay. In the event that... They don't get a lawyer.

Well, okay, but the collection guy, the guy from the collection company. He's an idiot. They're no longer involved. Bull crap. Bull crap. That's what they all say. I don't give a crap. The collection agency is an idiot. Just move on. He sits in a cubicle and calls people that don't pay their bills all day. He's got no power at all. The company turned this over to collections. They did not sell it. They still own the problem. They just hired a hitman.

The hit man's got no ability to do anything but pull the trigger. You don't negotiate with the hit man. You go to the mob boss and get the hit man called off. Yeah, you're right. And all of this sits on some manufactured principle you guys are carrying around that I just want to burst a slow bubble for you. Who cares about your stupid credit? Nobody cares.

Don't borrow money. And whenever you decide to move back out, you're going to need first and last month's rent. So you have to figure out work. You're going to figure out money. And then you're going to pay them. You're going to move on with your life. Yeah. Right. But if I don't have credit, how could I do that? Right. You don't need credit. You don't need credit. It's a myth. People buy people rent apartments every day without credit with first and last month's rent. Well,

Really? Because everything I've ever tried, they wanted to see my credit. Really? We called 22 apartments the other day around here as a test and found every one of them but two would rent to you. And that was over the phone? That was just over the phone without even telling me. I'm new. I'm moving to town. I'm moving out. My husband and I are separating. I've got a job. I make first and last month's rent. I got no credit. And they'll rent to you.

you know and just go on now corporate idiots like you've been dealing with are the ones that won't they'll pull a credit bureau on you but look you've got to go deal with this if you don't deal with it it's not going to get anything but worse and so get over there why not it's christmas time go over there this week sit down go look if it's the moron that was here before you do it's not your fault but he made a promise and we're going to hold your company to that promise uh and if you don't then we're going to sue you for the health issues

And, you know, I'm not contacting an attorney yet, but I'm leaving here and going to contact one unless you tell me you think you can get this fixed. And every email that was sent around this is going to be public record. So all those emails that he sent his bosses. Everything anybody ever said on a text or said on an email is going to be part of the deposition. Let them know. We're going to completely give you an anal exam. That's what's going to happen. Get ready.

And that's what lawsuits look like. There ain't no fun. Nobody enjoys the process. Oh, my gosh. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth.

Do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney. Ramsey Personality is our co-host today, number one best-selling author.

of the book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, and the latest one, Building a Non-Anxious Life. He's also the host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, where we talk about mental health issues and relationship things. So we're here to help you today, guys. Merry Christmas. Glad you're with us. Ozzie is up this hour. Ozzie's in El Paso, Texas. Hi, Ozzie. How are you? He's going off the rails. How do you feel, Dave? Thank you for taking my call. This is really awesome. See?

Cool. I was going to make an Ozzy Osbourne joke, but I screwed up. So there we go. What's up, Ozzy? Hey, guys. I started listening to you guys about three months ago with my wife. We saw you guys on YouTube, and I think this is the best thing ever. Well, thank you. Thank you, Dave. So we're working on Baby Steps, and basically we have about $25,000 in student debt and $20,000 in car loans. Okay.

And basically my question is, should I extend my lease in my apartment to pay those off and then get a house? Yes. Or should I put a down payment? Okay. Yeah. We tell folks not to buy a house while you're in debt because it's going to cause you to buy a different house than you would buy if you were debt-free. And if you move into a house with a bunch of student loan payments and a car payment, the first week you're there, the hot water heater will go out.

Okay. Yeah, you want to have everything cleaned up to where when you move into the house, the house is a blessing. So, yeah, extend your lease and lean in. Get on that every dollar budget. Cut down to nothing on your lifestyle. Let's get this debt cleaned up as fast as you can. So it sounds like you've got $40,000-something in debt. Did I hear that right? Yes, sir. Okay, and what's your household income? We make about $120,000. Okay. So how fast do you think you're going to pay this off?

uh really fast what's really fast i think maybe eight months eight yes i love that you are down to nothing i like it boy man get it that's that's intensity right there man and be weary of people who know how much money you make and are wondering why you're living like you're living

Right. If you live Spartan, people are going to say like, man, you got all this money. You don't need to just put your head down and get it done. Keep it going. Man, that's a, that's the number right there. I love it. You can do this in one year or less. I'll call on you a stud. Okay. Have at it. Do it. That's the best thing you can do. The faster you get clear, the faster you get to save a down payment and an emergency fund and the faster you get your house. And so you're probably about two years from buying a house, which is perfectly fine. No problem with that at all.

Charles is with us in Jacksonville, Florida. Hey, Charles, how are you? Doing well. Thanks so much, guys. Really better than I deserve, I guess. And just wanted to say thank you, first of all, Dave. We're on Baby Step 6. We've got six kids, and you've really just changed our lives, our family's lives. So first and foremost, thank you for all of that. Well, thank you. Way to go, man. I'm proud of you.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So quick, quick question for you. We, I'm supporting my, my mom financially. She's got some retirement, but, but really kind of not a lot of savings. We've been able to get her to pay off all her debt and just been very fortunate in bringing her on board as well. She does have a $200,000 whole life policy that she got back in 1996. She's probably put about

Yeah, $60,000 or so into it at this point. And it just jacked up in price. There's no cash value in it. So it's $425 a month, not something that you can afford. There's no cash value?

there's no cash value. Yeah. That's, that's, I've been looking into it. I always knew it was there, but I realized it was kind of a mess. And, um, you know, and what makes this more complicated is, is she and my dad had, uh, both got into this, um, back in 96 and he passed away about eight, nine years ago and they had ended his, um, policy 10 months before he passed away. So they sunk a lot of money into that one too, but they couldn't afford it anymore. They, um,

um yeah so so you know okay this is not an investment it's just a bad story yes so just cancel it just cancel it unless she's is she terminally ill she's not and we've looked at selling the policy no and no don't don't get into viaticals just sell it just close it just shut it down just a bad idea you got a hole in your pocket quit putting money in the pocket yeah absolutely it's uh

Is there any way to convert it into a term? I mean, is there anything we can do that it's just... No. It's got no cash value. If you convert it to a term, you've got a term insurance policy on an old lady. It's going to be expensive. I mean, life insurance is based on age. The older you are, the more likely you are to die and the higher the premiums are. It's a pretty simple formula, right? Yeah.

Absolutely, and she's in relatively good health. Yeah, so I mean, if you try to get a term policy, that's what you're going to run into is my point. And she doesn't need a bunch of life insurance. She's not supporting anyone. If she passes away, you're taking care of her. Absolutely. I should say, I'm sorry, when she passes away, we all are going to pass away. None of us get out of here.

So, yeah, I mean, it's just a matter of timing. And the bottom line is she just owns a bad financial product that she never needed but for sure doesn't need now.

Absolutely. Mourning the loss of that $60,000. Yeah, that's what's causing you hesitation. You're still trying to get something out of this and say, God, we got screwed and I don't want to admit it. Yeah, and you know, I was 10 at the time or whatever, right? And certainly that $60,000 could have grown to a lot more right now. It would have been a ton of money.

Yeah. Your mom and dad both would have had so much money if they'd have bought inexpensive term insurance and done real investing instead of getting screwed by some whole life agent, probably some guy they knew. Crazy that it's legal. I mean, obviously, I didn't know any of this when I was 10. They're the payday lender of the middle class. Yeah. Here's the deal, though. Here's the deal. The first step I put in my book about building a non-anxious life is you have to choose reality because what you're doing is you're spinning up stories. You're angry. You're thinking about what could have been. I was 10 years old. I was 10 years old.

And all that does is spin up your body. You go to war on a battle you can't fight. Yeah, there's no winning here. It's just ending it. Just stop. Just stop. It's just, you know, oh, I put $60,000 in my pocket. There was a hole in it. I lost the $60,000. Now, what do I do now? Well, you sew up the hole, and you don't put any more money in that pocket until you sew up the hole. So we're canceling this stupid thing and run the guy off with a stick.

That's all you're doing. It is that simple. I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry your parents got ripped off. Yeah, I hate that. But, I mean, it's car leasing, whole life life insurance, timeshares. I mean, these are the things that just eat credit cards or the credit card interest rates. Oh, my God. They just eat people's lunch. They just tear them to pieces, man. And, you know, when you actually understand how these products work, you go, God, that is a legalized fraud. Right.

But it is legal. It's perfectly legal. It's just a horrible product. Never buy life insurance ever that has a savings component to it of any kind. There's not a place. There's not a time that it works. Only one person that works for that's the life insurance company. That's it. It's screwing you 100% of the time. Hope I wasn't unclear.

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thank you for joining us, America. Merry Christmas to you. Jason is in San Antonio, Texas. Love your town, Jason. What's up?

Thanks. I'll start off by thanking you. You've changed my life. On our last three real estate transactions, we've definitely been blessed and we are on baby step seven. Thank God. Way to go. And

Thank you, sir. We are in a position where we could potentially be looking at a real estate investment. And I know you have prolific experience in investing, and I wanted to ask your opinion on setting up potentially a business to invest in, like an LLC or under my name, and then how to prop

find investment properties to invest in? And then obviously, you know, how do we manage it? You know, do we do flips? Do we do rentals? What's your opinion on stuff like that? Okay. Well, there's a lot of different things you can do there. That's a whole real estate course you're talking about in a sense. But as you probably have already figured out, I'm unusual and I pay cash for all mine or I don't buy it.

So that's thing one. I do put all of our properties in an LLC. We don't buy residential houses anymore in our situation. We've got a bunch of them, but we're not adding any. When we were buying those, we would put up to $5 million worth into an LLC, and then we would form another LLC. The reason for that is if an LLC owns the rental house,

the tenant gets drunk and falls off the porch and decides it's your fault and sues you, they have to sue the owner of the house, which is the LLC. Exactly. Okay. And if they were to win, they can take what that LLC owns, but nothing else. So your other assets, like your personal residence are then protected. So by, uh,

Putting your properties up to a certain point in an LLC and then it once the target on the LLC gets too big you do another LLC. So I've got a bunch of them. Like I've got one building that's a 15 million dollar office building. It's its own LLC.

Okay. You see what I'm doing? But if somebody falls over there, the worst case scenario, if they get past the insurance, they get past me pipe paying lawyers to sue them for being stupid and so on. The most they're going to get is that building. You follow me? Yes. So if you're going to buy a house or two, form an LLC, throw them in there. Now, then as far as whether you're flipping them or whether you're, uh, uh,

holding them then that's a completely different strategy in in terms of what you're looking for uh and what you want to do and that kind of stuff flipping is um been made famous of course by cable television everybody thinks they're chip and joanna and um

I've probably done 2,000, 1,500 flips in my life, but mostly in another life before I did this. I hardly ever sell a piece of real estate now. I buy it and hold it forever. And so flips are a pain in the butt because you're basically in the business of renovating properties and reselling them, finding another one, renovating it, and reselling it. If you want to do that as your business, that's okay. But it's time-consuming work.

You know, you're running subs, you're running paint colors, picking faucets. It's like building a dadgum house, you know. I mean, you're going to pick roofs, you're going to do all these things, and then pull building permits. You're going to have to do all this stuff, depending on how much work is being done to the house and the proximity to a city, the municipality, that you've got to do that. So you've got to go through all that stuff, and after you get through all of that,

You can make some money doing it if you bought the thing right. So you just decide if you want to do that or not. On rentals, the best rates of return are cheap properties, but they're the highest hassle. In other words, the more expensive the rent, typically the classier the tenant, right? More stable. Yeah, and they're more stable. But if you've got lower income property, you know, you're having to fight,

all kinds of other misbehaviors and other stuff in the properties, but the returns are excellent. So right now I'm looking at about 125,000 is about what we have left over from the most recent sale. Okay. And I just parked it in an S&P, not knowing what to do with it. Yeah, that's fine. So we can take that and buy one or two. If you want to buy one and flip it and roll it up into something. But think about what it is you want to own for 10 years if you're buying a rental.

Right. And from personal experience, I'll tell you, you know, you're a brand new landlord. You don't want to deal with lower income property. It's a pain in the butt. I mean, it becomes its own business. It's your own. You have to have a brain adjustment when you do it because you have to think different.

Um, but if, you know, all the, all the residential I have today is, is really high end single families. And I don't know how I got 10 or 15 of them. I don't have a bunch of them. Most of our stuff is commercial, but, uh, but, uh, uh, so all of that to say, you just got to decide what you want to do, but the more, um, don't underestimate the hassle factor of what you're stepping into.

A flip is a big hassle, I'm telling you. You make some money, but it's a job. You know, dealing with lower income people, you make a great rate of return, but it's a hassle. It becomes a job and it requires a cultural adjustment in your brain because it's a different psyche that you're dealing with as a customer.

And so, you know, by and large, not all the time, but as a generalization, call it a stereotype if you want to. But then and then the same thing on the other end. So if you're going to buy something to hold, look at it and go, how's this going to age in 10 years? Is it already 50 years old? Then it's going to be 60 years old.

When it's 10 years from now, you're going to start to, you know, so how old are you, Dave? I know, but I'm talking about houses. I mean, I look at the house I grew up in and I think that stinking house, how old it is now. Oh yeah. You know what I mean? Wow. I wouldn't buy that house. No. Yeah. You know, that's, that's old. Same than when I grew up in. Yeah. You know, so that, that's the thing, but it's a great question. Um, and, and, but I think the biggest mistake, um,

This frenzy we have, John, and people, and Jason, the people we have out here wanting to buy real estate right now, the biggest mistake is that they probably understand about 10% of how hard it's going to be.

I like the way you're framing it because you're saying, you're asking, what life do you want? And then we're going to buy a house or flip a house based on that. Because if you want to get in there and get your hands dirty and deal with knocking on doors and, hey, you can't do this and you can't light fires in the yard. That's a life, right? You can't run drugs out of our house. That's right. And if you want to mess with subs and have fun with doing that and flipping it and pick faucets, and that brings you or whoever your business partners enjoy, knock your lights out. But that's a different kind of life, right? Yeah, yeah.

If you want to set it and forget it. But this idea on TikTok that you can just buy houses and I've got this passive income. People who say passive income on real estate are morons. Right. There's nothing passive about owning real estate.

It's active. Right. It's very active. I don't own a single piece of property that's passive. Right. And I own about several hundred million dollars worth. It's very. It's not passive. It's just. There's nobody. Crypto. There's nothing that. What passive is, is mutual funds. They send me a statement in my inbox. Right.

That's all I deal with. That's passive. But, no, there's no real estate passive income. That's somebody trying to sell you a get-rich-quick seminar on TikTok or Tic Tac or whatever the flip it is. Real estate is a wonderful investment, but do not go into it, folks, with rose-colored glasses thinking it's going to be easy.

It's a process. Are you going to get rich quick? It's not quick. It's not easy. There's a hassle. It's a problem. It's like starting your own business. It's the meanest boss you'll ever work for in your life. The guy will work you into the ground. Don't start your own business and think it's going to fix all your problems. It just makes all your problems come home on your plate. This is The Ramsey Show.

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. Jeremy and Dauphin are with us on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. How are you guys? Blessed. Better than amazing. I love it. Very fun. Where do you guys live? Waxahachie, Texas.

Which is? It's about 20 minutes south of Dallas, just out 35. Oh, okay. Off 287. Yeah, exactly. Look at you Texas people talking code. All right. I love it. Way to go, guys. Congratulations. Welcome to Nashville. Merry Christmas. How much debt did you pay off?

$128,849.83. I love it. How long did this take? 57 months. Okay. Way to go. And your range of household income during that 57 months? It

was 65k to about 110k neat what do y'all do for a living we're both teachers uh and i'm actually a high school football coach oh wow very good good for you guys so what kind of debt was the 129 uh it was a mixture of school loans there was a we i owed something to the uh some money to the irs there was a car loan uh credit cards there was an old medical bill uh and a past uh eviction from my college days

Okay, cool. Very good. Way to go, you guys. Excellent. So what happened 57 months ago? I was actually teaching multiple math classes. One of them was a financial math course. And I was just kind of, during my lunch break, I was scrolling through Facebook and the Rachel Cruz show came up.

And I was just kind of listening to her. And then she had Chris Hogan on and they talked about the third job for being millionaires is a teacher. And I was always a person that I was like, oh, well, I'm just never going to make it or I'm just going to always be broke because I'm a teacher. And so when I heard that, I was like, okay, I'll bite. Like, let's hear about this. And then that's when I started listening to your show more. And I got hooked immediately. And then I kept trying to convince her and she...

She was not really having it. Yes, I was like a budget. What? And then after a while, you know, we started talking about our dreams and things like that. I was like, okay, I'll buy it. Okay. And then right after that, I finally convinced her to let me buy FPU. Uh-huh. And...

Then she decided to go on a spending spree that weekend. Yes, of course. Well, you got to eat chocolate cake when you start your diet. Yes. Okay. All right. So, but we, we ended up binging basically all nine episodes and probably about four or five days. Okay. So we like, we didn't have a group to really get plugged into. So we just started listening. And I mean, after,

after the first lesson, she was hooked and we were like, all right, let's go. Oh, wow. So once you're on your own. Yes. Okay. All right. And then we, two teacher salaries, you plow your way through 129,000 bucks. Uh, well, she actually wasn't a teacher at first. Okay. She, uh, I was actually, um, wanting to, we had moved up to Houston so that I could go to optometry school after we both graduated from college. And then I changed my mind during COVID. Um,

Because I was also working for an optometrist and shadowing him. And I realized that my passion is to help people and to serve people. And I felt that I could still do that through teaching. So that's why I changed my mind. And we plowed through that and getting my teacher served. And I started just focusing and learning.

teaching kids and we started focusing on that debt and we ended up taking up extra jobs on the weekends and everything so our shirts yeah we worked at Gateway Church we worked in the children's ministry so yeah okay yes Pastor Morris a good friend of mine yes good people way to go guys good for you guys I'm proud of you so what was the hardest thing you guys fought about over almost five years

She looked at you like she knows exactly the answer and you are looking like, we never fought. Everything was great. Okay. For me, it was having to stick to the budget was the hardest thing for me. And I felt like I was always trying to

Push it, push the nodule on trying to spend and trying to be socially acceptable all the time and feeling that I always could not be empty handed because that's the way I was. I grew up, you know, if you, you know, show up to events,

family get togethers or birthdays, or even, you know, if you're at your job and they have like a party and you have to bring something. And I always felt that pressure of we have to spend so that we can keep up with everyone.

And I realized that I had to just stop caring about that so much and focusing on our dream together and being out of debt. That's powerful. How has your marriage changed over the five years of working through this? Well, we actually starting off our debt-free journey within the first three months, we were actually on the rocks. And so we actually went through marriage counseling like almost immediately after we started FPU. Wow.

And like about two months after we started marriage counseling, I actually lost my job. And so just to make ends meet, I ended up getting a job as an assistant manager at McDonald's. This is when we were living in Beaumont. And so, I mean, ever since then, though, I mean, like our communication has gotten better. Money, I don't feel like ever was like the biggest fight. It was always just something lingering. It was always usually just kind of communication errors. And then we had arguments about cars, too, because...

You'll like this one. So throughout our entire debt-free journey, we went through 10 vehicles. Good Lord. Nine of them were in the first two years. Yes. Yeah, we had a- You're driving junkers or throwaways? So starting off, we had a 2015 Chevy Cruze and a 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer. Both a piece of junk. Yes. So the Chevy Cruze was the one we had a loan on. So after I lost my job, we sold it.

And then we ended up getting a 99 Toyota Camry. That's better. And so when we moved to Houston, I actually wrecked the Mitsubishi Lancer. Wow, you are not coming out the hero in any of this. Oh, it gets better. It gets better. So then we ended up getting a 97 Toyota 400. That's not bad. Yeah, so then the 99 Camry, the Tommy belt breaks while I'm driving up the freeway in Houston. Sure.

So my dad ended up helping us out, giving us a 2000 Toyota Camry. That's better. And while she was driving it, right after a melded hit, the wheel popped off the axle. Oh, my gosh. Yes. So my dad felt bad. He gave it. So he brought us a... He almost killed his daughter-in-law. Yeah. How fast were you going? The speed limit. In Houston? No, you're not telling the truth because nobody drives speed limit in Houston. Well, it was a back road, so... Oh, okay. Yeah.

I had to be careful. I'm not used to being on back roads all the time. Well, because the thing was, she was driving to Beaumont from Houston, which is about an hour and a half to two hour drive, because that's where her job was. Hard to do it on three wheels. And then we were living on the north side of Houston. I was actually working on the south side, which, John, as you know, Houston is an hour away from Houston. That's right. So I was actually getting up at 4 a.m. in the morning. In the middle of all this bull crap, how many times did you almost quit?

getting out of debt uh too many times yeah to really count what caused you to stick with it that's amazing i'm impressed um for us it was just having those dream talks yeah and re-watching it's worth the trouble it's worth the trouble now that you're there and you look back on all that stupid car i mean that's like a book you ought to write a book on bad cars the bad car experience uh

Was it worth it? Yes. 100%. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I would do it all again. You need to write all those cars down in detail so you can tell your grandkids because you'll forget them. I've had to go back and figure out what cars I've owned over the years, and I didn't go through 10 in 10 months. Oh, my God. That's incredible. Way to go, you guys. I'm so proud of you because the perseverance that you built,

And the locking arms, even though you hated every moment of it and at times didn't like each other while you're doing it, you still, what the calluses that you built, you're going to be able to do anything you want to do with your life. Yes. I'm so proud of you.

So very cool. All right, count it down, guys. $129,000 paid off in 57 months, making $65,000 to $110,000. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Ready? Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! That's how that works. This is The Ramsey Show.

Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 16, 28, a troublemaker plants seeds of strife. Gossip separates the best of friends. Thomas Sowell says, you can't stop people from saying bad things about you. All you can do is make them liars. That's fantastic. That's pretty good. All right. Patrick's with us in Nashville. Hey, Patrick. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, John. It's good to be talking to you all. You too, man. How can we help?

Yeah, first of all, and I'll be quick. First of all, I just wanted to say thank you for the work that you all do, you and your entire team. I'm on baby step number two still, so very early on in the process. But I can already tell you what education you put out and the things that I've learned from you all have changed my financial future. And honestly, even more than that, my kids and maybe children's children's financial future. So thank you. Well, thank you, Patrick. We're proud of you. How can we help? Yeah.

So I guess my question ultimately falls around manual underwriting. I want to give a little context. I work in higher education, so Dr. John knows my world very much. Essentially, my question is regarding a potential job opportunity. There's a position that I've been asked to apply for. I am applying for it. That essentially will give me free housing, housing,

meal stipend, phone bill paid for. So cover a lot of my essential expenses. And essentially I'm wondering what that looks like with, if I do go through this entire process, become debt-free, no credit score, uh, figure out,

If that affects any way negatively manual underwriting. No, it does not. I did the exact thing. I lived on campus. I had all my bills taken care of. It affects nothing. It's all good. Yeah. Take advantage of that glitch in the matrix and pay off everything you own, put tons of money away. And, um, you know, manual underwriting does not require a rental for it to be approved, a rental background. Now it, um,

If you have paid, you know, if you've paid rent, they're going to want to see that. But in this case, you're not. So, for instance, another place you would have this happen is if you were in the military and you're using base housing. Yeah. That wouldn't count against you. It just becomes part of your compensation at your job is what it amounts to. So it's very explainable because the essence of manual underwriting is that instead of looking at a number,

that says that you can pay your bills. They're actually looking at your life. Okay. Can you pay your bills? Manual means a human being is making a value wisdom judgment on behalf of the mortgage company and saying, okay, I've got this piece of information that says he can pay his bills. I've got this piece of information that says he can pay his bills. I've got this piece of information that says he can pay his bills. And that's what they're looking for.

When I was a pup at 18 or 20 years old in the 70s and 80s selling real estate, we would take – there was no FICO score. We would –

put a house under contract with someone and we would take them over to the savings and loan, the bank, and they would sit down and say, "All right, sign this. It's a verification of deposit." And they would mail it to the bank to verify that you had a deposit. "Sign this. It's a VOE, a verification of employment." They would mail it to your employer to verify your income and that you had a job.

Sign this. It's a verification of that. And they would gather these data points, and then they would look at them and go, this guy can pay his bills. There was not any shocking revelation out of a magic number that somehow falsely said you were eligible. And so that's what's going on here. That's the essence of the idea of manual underwriting, and that'll put you right where you want to be. I'm proud of you, Patrick. Go take your job, man. That's great. Yeah, go get it. Get it. That job changed my family's life, so go get it.

Where were you? I was in Texas and I was over, I would have been his boss and I had an empty apartment. And this is when my wife and I decided, hey, if we sold our house, we moved in this house, we could pay off everything we own in the next. So we paid off

A jillion dollars. Oh, so you sold your house and moved into the house? I moved into an apartment. That was provided? That was provided and had all the bills. And then Hank had 175 college students as his roommates in the building we lived in and ended up being a pretty magic year for us. Wow. Yeah. Very interesting. But it transformed our lives. Denise is with us in Houston, Texas. Hi, Denise. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave. Hi, John. Thank you guys so much for taking my call. It's my birthday today, so I'm definitely happy to have you on my call. Happy birthday! Thank you so much. My question is, I am wondering if I should, or how I can get out of my car situation. I currently have a 2020 Kia Forte, negative equity in it, unfortunately. I purchased it last year, and I just feel like it's draining the ability for me to be able to make money

Um, have higher savings and just kind of get, get to a better place. I don't really know if it's a 22,000. Okay. What do you make? 57,000. And what's your car payment? Car payment is 460. Okay. And, um, so what do you think it's worth? Uh, from KBB, I looked up, it's worth about 14 grand, 13 or 14 grand. That's trade in. No, she rolled in negative equity. Oh, you rolled in negative equity.

Correct. Oh, I missed that part. Oh, geez. Okay. So is that private sale you owe $14,000? Yes, private sale. Or it's worth $14,000. I'm sorry. So you're eight in the hole. I would owe roughly $8,000, yeah. And I thought maybe pretty soon I could start trying to double up on payment and get out of my balance sooner. How much other debt do you have?

$6,000 in student loans, $2,100 in a credit card. That's it. Now, I'm just going to work your debt snowball, pay your minimum payments, and pay everything you can on your smallest debt. And then when that was gone, pay everything you can on your next smallest debt. That's $10,000. Clear that.

And then when you don't have those two payments anymore, then we're going to tear into this car and we're going to pay not double payments, but triple quadruple payments or whatever, you know, pay $3,000 a month on it. I don't care. And let's just get it paid down because the car is not the problem. The car before this car is the problem. And so you're not solving the math problem when you go from 22 to eight. If you go from 22 to two, you'd be solving the math problem, right? Right.

Right. But you're not, you don't make enough headway here by getting rid of this, by sacrificing this car. In this case, what I would do is just tear into it with a vengeance and say, okay, I've got, um,

you know, $32,000 worth of debt. I make 57. I'm going to work six jobs, do nothing, go not go out to eat. I'm going to pour everything I can get my hands on onto this 57. I mean, onto this $32,000 worth of debt. And in 18 to 24 months, I'm going to be a hundred percent debt-free car and everything. And then if you want to sell the car, sell it, but get it paid off. Perfect. That's kind of what I was thinking. Thank you guys so much. Yeah. You got it. Have you been through financial peace university yet? Marie?

uh denise i have not no i'm sorry denise i'm sorry i'm looking at the wrong screen younger i did my family like how old are you when i was i'm 29 today that's happy birthday hey we're going to give you a birthday gift and a christmas gift i want you to go through financial peace university as my guest okay thank you so much yeah i want you to go do that stuff because i i can hear it in the way you're looking at this and you're you're the way you're forming your language you're actually going to do it you're you're going to do this i'm

I am. I'm very passionate, and yes, I definitely want to knock it out. Denise, can I ask you a quick question? Yes, sir. How many years in a row have you been 29?

Zero. All right. A real 29. Well done. It's the 33rd anniversary of my 29th birthday. Oh, my gosh. Well, happy birthday, Denise. Hang on. Austin will pick up and we'll get you signed up for Financial Peace University as our guest.

We just passed 10,000 classes that were taught this year. Wow. I just did a little video thanking all the coordinators before we got on the air. 10,000 classes. 10,000 classes were taught this year. And it gets away. The numbers are astronomical. They're staggering. I mean, that's a lot of people. Yeah. And we're starting to add up now how much charity has been given.

by all these people. And it's astronomical how much of the economy you can affect by doing something like this. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Hey, folks, Dave Ramsey here. You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind, and that's EveryDollar. The EveryDollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money. Start budgeting with EveryDollar for free right now. Just go to RamseySolutions.com slash EveryDollar and download the app today. That's RamseySolutions.com slash EveryDollar.