THIS Is the Key to Getting Out of Debt
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Merry Christmas, America. Open phone. It's number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, Ramsey personality Ken Coleman is my co-host today.

So if you want to talk about jobs and work as you head into the new year, this is a good day to do it. Mr. Ken's here, and he's the expert on that. I've always got an opinion, and I'm an expert on my opinion. So you guys jump in at any point, we'll help you. The phone number is 888-825-5225. But Ken, instead of going straight into the phones, which we typically do, I'm going to take a pause here and say congratulations to the Booth dudes. Yeah, that's right.

James Childs, our fearless producer, James Childs, and Austin Ben. Andrew, they all do a great job making sure that we are doing what we're supposed to do on this end of the microphones. And for several reasons,

I don't know, years, I guess. We have hovered in Apple Podcasts around number 10, number 15, sometimes number 8 in the world on the main list of all Apple Podcasts. But today we hit a milestone. We've never done this before. They refresh that list, I think, about every 20 seconds. So I don't know how quickly it'll be there. It won't be there. But as of a few moments ago, we're the number one podcast in the world.

on apple how about that and uh congratulations you guys i'm proud of you did you hear that mom did you hear what dave just said yeah very excited ken coleman's on the number one podcast in the world i gotta go call my mom and dad in any category it's not some nuanced you know southern uh double wide trailer broadcast uh number one we're the number one in that right no this is the whole freaking thing

The numero uno, and that's a big deal. I got a few elementary school teachers that are having a heart attack right now if they're hearing that. Yeah, well, I got to tell you, I do. My speech teacher is not. My speech teacher, Mr. Berner. Oh, Mr. Berner. Mr. Berner in middle school.

He was a believer in Dave Ramsey? 7th and 8th grade. Well, he sent me out there. We had these things called forensics. Yeah. Which was a speech club. Yeah, sure. And we went around to other schools and gave memorized speeches or did debates or whatever. Yeah. And Mr. Berner knew I could talk. He wasn't sure I could do anything else, but he knew I could talk. And here I am making a living. Who knew it? So way to go, Mr. Berner. This is to you. Well done. Ha!

Open phones at 888-825-5225. We'll start this hour with Canada. Megan is with us. Hi, Megan. How are you? I'm doing fantastic. Thank you so much for taking my call. I greatly appreciate it. It's an absolute honor to speak to both of you today. You too. What's up?

So I have a quick question. I have a brother-in-law who is being completely enabled by my mother-in-law and father-in-law. He is currently still living at home. He's almost 40 years old, and he has a drug addiction problem as well as he's currently not working. And my major concern is that my in-laws are getting older. They're almost 80.

And we've recently purchased a house and it has a complete separate in-law suite. They kind of, their eyes kind of got a little bit big when they saw the new house that we purchased for ourselves. And they may mention like, oh, isn't this just a lovely place for you guys to potentially rent out later down the line? Kind of hinting at the fact that potentially the brother could potentially move in with us. How do I plan?

I politely explain to them I have zero desire of him moving into our house. You don't? Your husband does. It's his mother, not yours. Absolutely. I agree with you. Does your husband have a backbone, or does he need to run down to Walmart and pick one up? I think I need to buy him one for Christmas. Okay. All three. All three at Walmart. All three. Yeah. Listen, if you do it, you're going to be the Wicked Witch of the West until they die.

Okay. Because one thing about enablers, they don't think they're enablers. They think they're nice. And if you don't participate in their enabling, by definition, you are not nice. You see this with very, very clear eyes. Your husband. Does your husband agree with you? I'm not kidding. Your husband needs to head this off at the pass. What's brother's name?

First name? Joe. Joe. Good. Okay. So brother just catches, you know, me, mom, papa at the, at the dinner table and says, Hey, just to let you guys know, uh, Joe's not moving in with us as long as I'm breathing. That's her husband's job. Okay. You don't say a word. You sit there and just kind of, you sit there and kind of dab the corners of your eye. Like you're crying. Okay. You don't say a word. What was the question? Megan? There's no way to what?

For me to politely bring this up. No, no. Why do you keep going back to you? Do you not understand? Why do you have to do it? Because I have the backbone. I know. But you can share yours with him. My wife does it all the time. She says, sick him.

That is true. That is true. Well, in Stacey's case, too, she's as sweet as she can be, but she makes it very clear what her position is on some things at times, and that means it's clear that I need to get on that page. Yeah, you don't have a brother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem. That's exactly right.

So do you pick those up at Walmart, too, new ones? Oh, that's a whole separate call. No, I mean, you have to get with Dr. John Deloney, your marriage counselor or whatever else. But I honestly, I would just say, honey, if I talk to your mom about this, this is not going to go well. They're going to be angry with me, and I don't want that. It is your family. It's actually your job. And I'm going to encourage you.

I'm going to give you a stiff cup of coffee, a stiff kick in the rump, and you're going to go talk to your mother and dad. And at some point, when it comes up gently, and be kind and just say, you know, you don't want to be as rough as I was a minute ago, but just mom and dad, look, we've got this house. And, you know, you guys were all big-eyed about the movie, about, you know, us having an apartment to rent. We might rent it out someday, but we won't be renting it out to Joe. Yeah. And you need to know that ahead of time. And Joe, you know, I go and tell Joe, Joe, you're not moving in.

I love you, but I hate what you've become. And I'm not going to participate in your drug addiction, your laziness, and your parasitical involvement with mom and dad. You're a parasite. I'll help you. I'll coach you. I'll love you and help you get up on your feet and actually become a man and go be somebody, but you ain't living in my house, dude. And that's your husband's job.

100% of the time that you say one word or even agree using your eyes, you're going to get blamed for this. Don't let this land on you. It's not your fault. Okay. Make him do it. He can do it because he does agree with you, but he comes from enablers, which are nice people, and they build a family script that anyone that goes against nice people is by definition mean people. And that's running around in your husband's head.

Am I wrong? No. Yeah. And you're not mean. And you're not crazy. And you're not, you know, you are sweet. And you're being protective of your own home space, which you should be. This is called boundaries. And when you set up boundaries for people that don't have any, they generally don't like it. So you don't need to be the one doing it. This is The Ramsey Show.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey good folks, the back-to-school madness is upon us. It's hitting us right now. We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on. My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects. And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

Here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first. And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole. And I know that you have to do those same things too. So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments. And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.com.

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. You know, Ken, I was bragging on our team here for the number one podcast position on Apple, but I really should brag also on our listeners because one of the things that has really substantially moved the needle, no kidding, for real, I'm not jazzing with you, this is the truth, is that

is that we started asking you guys, and then you did it, to subscribe to whatever format you're listening, YouTube, podcast, you know, whatever it is, subscribe, and to review and leave a five-star, and to share a link or click the share button if the format you're using, the platform you're using has a share button. So sharing and subscribing and reviewing affects these numbers dramatically.

because it lets other people listen, tells other people we're here, it's great marketing. You know, you guys are great marketing. Thank you for sharing. So like when you read a good book,

You tell other people, you got to read this book, man. Or you see this movie, you go, man, you've seen that movie. That's great. Same thing with a podcast. And we thank you for that. You guys, a bunch of you in this calendar year more than ever before have shared, have subscribed, and have positively reviewed us. Thank you for that. Yes.

We really appreciate you. There's a reason that we're number one on Apple right now. Thank you, thank you, thank you for that. And I'll keep bragging on all of you so I can keep saying it over and over and over because it's pretty stinking cool. All right, Stephen is in Chicago. Hi, Stephen. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, gentlemen. How are you doing today? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, so when I was young, I lost both my parents when I was younger, and I received a trust

um as a result of that and i kind of just wanted to pick your guys's brains and how i can continue to grow those assets um right now i'm 26 and i kind of have no idea which direction to kind of move with those okay how much and how much did you get uh 804 000 and you're in charge of the entire trust uh yes i work with a financial advisor on it i know but you're in charge of it yes correct yeah you tell the financial advisor what to do he doesn't tell you what to do

Yes. Okay. That's the way it should be, by the way. The first thing you're looking for in financial people, and you've got to be careful because the way you use your words around me, I'll catch on, okay? The thing you're looking for is the heart of a teacher. Their job is to give you ideas and tell you why those ideas might work. That's called teaching. Their job is not to do everything and you go, oh, I've got a guy that takes care of everything. That's how people lose all their money.

Okay. Because the guy that takes care of everything never does. Ever. Ever. You know, you hear these sports guys, you know, make NFL player makes 10 million bucks signing bonus. He's 22 years old, 23 years old. And, you know, then he's 30 years old and he's bankrupt because I got me a guy. That's what they tell me when I'm working with them in the NFL. I got me a guy to which I always yell at them. You're the guy.

Okay. You follow me? I do it at a distance because they're big. But yeah. So yeah, you're the guy. You understand. So that's first thing. Then the second thing is, what are you going to invest in after you learn about it that you're comfortable with? Now, you know, and I guess then the third thing is, I would set up your lifestyle if I were you where you don't need any of this money, where you work, earn your own money, and you're building your own life.

Yeah, and that's what I'm trying to continue to do. And I guess, Dave, since I've kind of known this in the back of my mind that I have it, you know, I feel guilty for kind of being in this position of having that. No reason to feel guilty unless you live off of it and become a useless trust fund baby.

Then you should feel guilty. That's what I don't want to happen. Hey, let me give you three questions that you don't have to answer on the spot right here, but I think this is a good exercise, and you may have answered them. I would give you these three questions to get clear answers on, and it'll help you do what you need to do with this money, and there's no guilt. What I want to do, that's professional.

What do I want to have? That's personal. And then what do I want to give? And that's about others focused. I think that those are three big 30-year questions. And if you get the answers to those, I would want this money to be able to advance those very clear, big goals. What do I want to do? What do I want to have?

That's some material stuff that matters to you. And then what do I want to give? I think you could add anything to those three questions, but those are real simple to be able to have a long-term vision that this money can now fuel. That's the way I want you to come at it. So, Stephen, I'll tell you kind of like we told our kids when they were your age and they were a little bit younger than you. We sat down and we showed them what the Ramsey net worth has become. I said, this is not you hit the lottery moment because as for –

Our house, we serve the Lord. And what that means in this moment of you seeing our net worth for the first time, because they didn't grow up thinking they were rich kids. We didn't allow that, although they were. They grew up, you know, having to work and learn a skill and become useful human beings.

And so I said, what you've got with this money is not the blessing of never having to do anything. What you got is a tremendous responsibility. You are going to be what I am, a manager of God's money for him and his glory. And if you are not going to manage this money for him and for his glory, you will not be getting the money.

And so that's how this goes. That's how I told our kids. And so what that does, if you step back and you say, my job is to manage this for the legacy of my family, whoever it was that did such a great job with money that left it to you, you want to honor that by saying,

By furthering this, and the first way you do that is you earn your own living and you don't live out of this money. Number two, you take this money and you manage it well like you were managing it for someone else that you care deeply about, which would be the memory, the legacy of the family, for the Lord, however you want to view that. And that means you get with someone that has the heart of a teacher. Then I'm investing it. If I'm you, basic stuff.

I would start with a series of just good growth stock mutual funds, just very simple stuff. Like this was your 401k. Like you had 800,000 in your 401k and lots of people have 800,000 in the 401k, by the way. So I've just started like that. And I put my personal 401k and a lot of my mutual fund investing in four types of mutual funds, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth and international growth.

I personally spread my money out 25% on each of those four. And I look for mutual funds that have long track records that have outperformed the S&P. And that's how I pick them. And my financial advisor, my Ramsey Smart Investor Pro that I work with, that has the heart of a teacher, will bring me three or four funds that meet those guidelines. We'll discuss those three or four.

And based on his input and his work to get it to that point, I will choose then what I want to do with my money. And he will go do with my money what I tell him to do. And that's what you're supposed to do. You see the difference?

Yeah, definitely. So, and you go ahead and put in your corner a tax person that you trust. You put in your corner an estate planner that you trust. You put in your corner an insurance person that you trust. All of these people are in the financial arena, which means all of them are required to have the heart of a teacher.

When I hire a lawyer in a lawsuit or in some other situation, their job is not to tell me what to do, although some of them took that class in law school, and occasionally they get fired by me for doing that because I'm not putting up with an arrogant butt attorney. So you're going to do what I tell you to do in my situation, but you're here to advise me and teach me the law in that situation.

That's different than my lawyer said I have to. My lawyer don't say I have to do nothing. He has to do stuff. I said that's the way that works. Same thing with you, dude. That's what I want you to do on all this. And I'm not being a smart aleck. But the point is that people get this stuff backwards because we feel insecure and lacking in knowledge. And so we want to trust the professional, turn our back and walk away. And that's how the patient dies on the table. Don't do that.

You stay in the surgery. You want to learn how this happens. You get your hands in the blood and guts and you make sure this stuff goes. You're managing it. You're the manager. These other people are advisors. They're helpers. They're teachers and build you a little board of directors. And you're going to be worth $8 million in about 20 minutes. If you'll do this time, you're 40. This will be 8 million. If you watch what you're doing, this is the Ramsey show.

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. If you're listening to us live, the Ramsey Cash Giveaway ends at midnight tonight, December the 20th, Wednesday. If you register for free, no purchase necessary,

You will be registered to win and possibly be one of the winners for the $5,000 grand prize giveaway. RamseySolutions.com slash giveaway. Jared is in Milwaukee. Hi, Jared. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thanks. Sure. What's up? I've got some cash stashed aside for eventually a house purchase. Right now, I'm 23 years old, renting.

apartment i'm single i make about 90 000 a year um my monthly rent is right around a thousand dollars and i've got around 270 000 saved up for a house you're a stud man way to go i'm so proud of you thanks you know how weird that is right

Not really. It's weird. It's a good weird. When I call you weird around here, it's a compliment because normal is broken, stupid in America. Okay. You don't want to be normal. You're amazing, man. Way to go. Thanks. 275,000. Where is it? Under the mattress?

It's a lot of banks, a lot of local credit union. Right now it's making about 4%. Not bad. That's okay. So, I mean, in all reality, that 4% covers my monthly rent right now. I just don't know if there's a better route, better plan, better something that I can use that money for to make more. What's your timeline? When do you think you're going to do the house purchase?

Probably in the next three years. Okay. All right. Well, here's some numbers for you. There's really no medium investing. There's conservative, which is in a savings account, and you're not going to lose any money, but you're not going to make much money, which is where you are right now. You're making 4%. Okay? And there's nothing wrong with that.

If you park it there for the next three years, you're not going to make a bunch of money on your money, but you're not going to lose any money. And it turns out we already figured out what the secret sauce is. It's Jared. You're the secret sauce. It isn't the investment. None of that money, none of that $275,000 is in there because you are some kind of big-time investor. It's in there because you're a big-time saver, right? Yep. Okay. So you're the secret sauce, so it's okay if you leave it there. You follow me?

Now, the other end of the spectrum is you could move some or all of the money towards something like an S&P 500 index mutual fund.

All right. If you did that this year, I haven't pulled it up in a while. I'll try to do it. Hey, Ken, pull up S and P 500. See what the return is for the year. While I'm yakking. I think it's North of 15% for the year right now. Okay. But the mutual funds are that S and P follows what the stock market does. The stock market is up this calendar year from January to December. You follow me? Yep. I think it is. I'm pretty sure it is. And, um,

Last time I looked was a couple months ago. It was up 15% for the year. But anyway, it could go down, though. If it went down 10%, you'd lose like $20,000. 26%. 26.2%. For the year. For the year. Yeah, I thought it's way up. That's not realistic. Well, yeah, we've had a big jump. Yeah, we've had a big jump because interest rates went down and we got an election coming, all this stuff. So, okay. Okay.

But anyway, the S&P has averaged about 11.6% since it began. So what I do, Jared, is I'll throw money in there knowing I could lose some, but if I make 10 instead of 4, that's pretty good. That's another 6% on your $300,000, so that's another $20,000 or $30,000 you're making on your money. Okay? Okay.

Yep. Okay. So if you want to move some of the other, but you got to understand that can go down. Here's your actual numbers. 99% of the five-year periods, any potential consecutive five years, 99 times out of 100 have made money in the S&P since it began. Okay. Safe bet if you're going to leave it alone five years or more that you're going to be okay to put your money in that. Okay. Okay.

But 67%, two out of three times, it makes money on a three-year period. Okay? Yep. So you've got a one in three chance you lose some money with your plan if you move some that way. Now, I have been investing a long time, and I've got a little extra money. This is very precious money for you, and you're young, and this is your first ride. So I don't know if you can emotionally handle losing $10,000 on this.

Okay. But if you can and you want to move half of it over into S&P, you could do that fairly safely with a three-year horizon. But you don't have to do that. You can just sit where you are because, truthfully, the reason you have money is because of Jared, not because of some sophisticated financial strategy. Okay. And so, you know, let me just tell you, I think in your case, if I woke up in your shoes, I would just tell you keep it in that 4% account.

If you're just dying to try something, move $50,000 or something over into an S&P. But I just leave it there. I just think I don't want you to become disillusioned because you've worked so hard for this money. Yeah, and I have the feeling he's planning to save up for an all-cash purchase. It feels like that. We didn't ask. But he's already got $270,000. So at that rate, what's he going to save over the next three years? A lot. Yeah. I mean, if you're Jared's mom and dad and you're listening –

touchdown yeah way to go you raised an adult freaking amazing he's not a victim he's not whining he's not afraid of work god that's awesome lord help us get us more jared's that's awesome way to go man well done trish is with us in maine hi trish how are you

Hi, Trish. Hi, I'm doing well. Good. What's up? How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So I just, I sold my house over the summer and I paid off all of my debt except for my Jeep and I got my CDL and I'm a truck driver and I was just wondering how to manage my money, like where to put it. I do want to purchase a house in the future. You're living in the truck right now? Yeah.

I am. Okay, cool. Driving over the road. Got a sleeper. Yeah. Look at you, girl. How old are you? I'll be 39 in January. How many states you been in in the last year? All of them except for California, Oregon, and Washington. California made it no fun for a trucker to come in there, didn't they?

Yeah. Not really. There's some taxes and stuff. You be careful there, girl. Anyway, way to go. You're seeing the world. I like you. How much do you make, Trish? Well, I mean, I get paid by the mile, so it varies. I mean, what are you going to make in the cap? What are you going to pay taxes on in 23?

Probably $55,000, $60,000. Okay, good for you, and you're seeing the world. Pretty much, yeah. So what's your question? What am I doing with my income? I know from like I have to save a certain amount, and I have to invest a certain amount, and then I have the rest. But obviously I have a little bit of money. Have you got any money to pay off the cheap?

I do. The only reason why I didn't pay it is because the payoff amount is the same as the remainder of my payments. The remainder of your what? The remainder of the payments that I have. I only have like two years left. Do you have the money to pay off the Jeep today? Yes, I do. Pay it off when you get off the phone. That's step one. Step two is you need to have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Do you have that done?

If you pay off the Jeep, do you still have that? Yes. You've got a lot of money. You're doing good. Okay. Then you start putting 15% of your income into retirement. Get online at Ramsey Solutions and click on SmartVestor for a SmartVestor Pro near you. They'll sit down with you and help you get started with your first Roth IRAs, and you can rock and roll with that. If you've got a 401K with a trucking company, you may want to look at that. I want you putting 15% of your income there.

into retirement with a paid-off Jeep and an emergency fund, and you're on your way. Have fun out there. Drive safe. Merry Christmas. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. A young lady driving and seeing every state, but I guess somehow I had in my head Overroad was making more than 50 grand, 60 grand.

Well, they absolutely can. So giving an idea, you know, depends on the company. But Walmart famously was hiring drivers last year,

uh for 90 000 starting pay so it depends on the company depends on the experience but yeah she will eventually make more than that i would guess that in her situation it's either the company or it's her status so she's early on okay that could be yeah it's on the low side caitlin is with us in chicago hi caitlin how are you hi good how are you um so i'm

So I've got a question around renting for another year or buying in a few months. So 26 years old, right now I rent with my husband, and we've got a three-year-old, and we've got $125,000 saved, but that's like all of our savings. Okay. What's your household income? Well, like every month after taxes and everything, we take home about $8,500. Okay.

Okay. So that's a hundred thousand a year. So you're making about 140 probably. Okay. And, um, 130, something like that. Um, how much debt do you have? Nothing. Nothing. No car debt. Nope. Nope. No student loan debt. Nope. Good for you. What do y'all do for a living? Uh, I work for McDonald's and then my husband works for like a digital marketing firm. Okay. What do you do for Mickey D?

I'm on the menu team over at corporate. Yeah. I know you're corporate probably Chicago. Okay, cool. Good for you. Well done. All right. Good. Um, what's the house price we're looking at?

Like 424-ish is like what would be get us like enough bedrooms, enough space, and something that's like not a fixer-upper. Yeah, good. So like 424. I like that plan. So here's a couple of rules we use to cause people to be in a healthy situation, not a I got house fever, lost my mind, and did something stupid situation, okay? Okay.

So rule number one is to be debt-free, which you are. Rule number two is when you make your down payment, you need to retain enough to call your emergency fund, which is three to six months of household expenses. We'll call that $15,000, $20,000 in your situation. Okay. So you've got $100,000 or so to put down now. Okay. The third thing is don't take out ever, never take out more than a 15-year fixed rate.

where the payment is more than a fourth of your take-home pay. That's the max. You can qualify for almost twice that much, but that doesn't mean you need to be that stupid. Don't do that. Keep it conservative so you can get the house paid off in less than 15 years. That's the goal, okay? Okay. Because that's a key to building wealth long-term. It's a pinch short-term.

But I think all of that will still work for you. Then the last thing is if you can figure it out, and you're right on the bubble on this one, if you can make a down payment of 20% or more with a conventional Fannie Mae loan, you avoid PMI, private mortgage insurance. And PMI costs you about $75 a month per 100,000 borrowed.

So we're talking about $225 a month on 300K. That's pretty substantial. And all that is is foreclosure insurance that you buy for the mortgage company. If they have to foreclose on you, it covers them. It does nothing for you. Okay. But if you put down 20%, you have an 80% loan-to-value ratio, LTV, then you avoid having to buy that ridiculous PMI.

So I'd love for you to do that one. It's not mandatory, but you can see from the numbers that it's a really cool thing to avoid that. But the other things I would call mandatory for your future wealth building, and I think you're right on the bubble of being able to do all that, depending on when you do this. And I would go ahead and purchase sometime in this coming calendar, in 24. Now, if rates right this second have been coming down for the last 30 or 45 days.

All right. And people are all worried about interest rates, interest rates, interest rates, interest rates. Listen, don't worry about interest rates. What I want you to do is buy a house the way I just described. That's what I think will cause you to win. And you marry the house and you date the rate. You follow me? Right. You're buying the right house. And then if the rates come down, just refinance. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you get a six and some change right now and they come down to three or four, refinance.

Okay. But you've still got the right house. So you marry the house and you date the rate. Mortgages are temporary. Houses are a lot less than temporary. They're not permanent, but they're a lot less than temporary. Yeah. Okay.

I've got to ask her two questions, Dave. Okay. First, earlier today, Caleb, we're very excited, proud of the team. We were rated the number one podcast on all of Apple iTunes. This is stuff people want to know from a Mickey D's menu expert. Anything exciting coming out in 2024 on the new menu? I'm not asking you to tell us. That you're allowed to tell. I know you can't tell us. What can you tell us? People want to know.

I don't know. I don't know. You do know, but you don't know what you can say. There's something exciting coming. Can you tell us that? Yes or no? Every day is exciting. Oh, great corporate answer. You're amazing. You should run for office. That was a great answer. That would work on Meet the Press every Sunday. All right. Next question. What's your all-time favorite menu item?

Probably double cheeseburger or the nugget. The nugget. Interesting. Mine's the Big Mac. The Big Mac. Special sauce lettuce cheese. I mean, that's it. That's a good one. Child of the 80s right there. So there you go. Child of the 70s, too. I'll get you that one.

In 1976, it was $1.16 to get a Mac and a small Coke. No way. And we'd go through drive-thru when we were in high school. Wow. Yeah, that's a different world. You're old, Ramsey. Get dad gum right, and I'm proud of it. I'm alive. Shut up.

By the way, Dave, you were talking to her about a 15-year rate. Today, right at this moment, it's at 6.2. That's what I thought. I thought it was at a low 6. For a 15-year. But, I mean, it was up 7 and some change just 30 days ago. That's right. Yeah, so we're seeing the rates trend in the right direction. And what's happening is, here's what's weird. It's Christmas time, which is a weird time for people to put houses on the market, but a bunch of people listed their houses in the last three weeks. Without question. The inventory's coming back up. So we may see a real estate revival in the spring. Yeah.

which you can pretty well count on the Fed trying to make sure that Biden stays in office and drops this rate. What are you saying, Dave? I'm just saying that there's a plan here. There's a plan that's sus, as George would say. Suspect. Apparently that's a thing to say sus now, but there you go. I don't know. It's about like that student loan forgiveness thing that wasn't ever going to happen. That's something I never thought I'd ever hear you say. Why in the crap did they run these rates up so they could run them down and look like heroes? Oh, there's that.

Yeah. Okay. What do I know? Yeah. Had to stop his inflation, so then he can be the hero, stop the inflation, be the hero and stop and get rid of the all-cause by self-induced. Yeah. Okay. What do I know? Yeah. I'm a little cranky about it, Dave. I have the gift of cynicism. It's a spiritual gift. You do. You do. I have insight into these things. I kind of got into that higher rate on my savings account on that –

that, that, uh, it's going down a little disappointed about that in years. I was telling one of my buddies about this. So in 1981, I was in college, right? My grandpa who never touched the stock market with a 10 foot pole, but he saved like a crazy man. He saved everything he made, uh,

had money markets. He was so proud of his money markets over at the Savings and Loan. I got money markets. Those rates. You know what? He had dadgum money market paying 14% at one point. Yeah, that's no joke. That was crazy. I mean, that's a savings account paying 14% in 1981. That's right. But, I mean, fixed rates on mortgages were 17.5%. Yep. So there you go.

I said, what a wild world. It's like a credit card or something. Yeah. Yeah. Distant memory, foggy, way back there. But I can still see him talking about it with that gleam in his eye. He was so excited that his money markets were performing at such a high rate. The only time in history you saw a double-digit money market rate return over 10%. I'm guessing, though, he wasn't carrying a mortgage or would he have been? Oh, yeah. He hadn't seen any debt. But he also didn't touch the stock market because he was a child of the Great Depression. He was 20.

He was 26 when the market cracked. Too speculative, yeah. He wasn't going to touch that. That's gambling. I'm not doing that. He saved every dime he made, though. He was amazing. He was a good man. Wow. This is how it's done, boys and girls. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work,

that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose. Is my host this hour? The phone number is 888-825-5225. Merry Christmas to you, America. We're glad you're here. Kate's in San Antonio, Texas. Hi, Kate, how are you? Hi, how are y'all? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Um, yeah. So basically I kind of like just started, uh, I just got introduced to you. I started binging everything and I'm going to like try to be as fast as possible. Um, but, and so I'm trying to get working on the baby steps. Um, I'm like, yeah. So, um,

My problem is income. It's really not that great. And so I'm wanting to increase it. And I found some like courses that I think could really help me increase my income so that I can really like get ahead on this stuff. But unfortunately, like it kind of does involve

I guess still borrowing money a little bit. And I don't know if that might be a good investment to make or if I should like, I don't know, try to figure out something else.

Okay, let's start with some facts. What do you make right now and what are you doing to make that? What's your income? Oh, yes. Yes, sir. So right now, I make like $30,000 with one job. I work, you know, I have a day job. I have a job on the weekends that I make a couple hundred with as well. What are you doing? What kind of work for the $30,000? I work for the state. Okay. Doing what? Yeah. Like clerical work. Okay. What are these classes you're thinking about?

So it's a business analytics class, and I did a lot of research in my area, and the salary for that can be up to, you know, 30 to 60, or sorry, not 30, 50 to 60,000 entry levels. What's the class cost? The class costs 9,000. You don't need to go in debt for that.

Well, I don't have any way to save for it, really, because everything that I'm doing is kind of keeping me at a baseline and paying off the base of my debt right now. How much debt do you have now? Like $30,000. On what? For student loans, my car, and stuff like that.

Oh, I didn't finish. That was just for one semester. $30,000 for one semester? Well, not, sorry, for one year, not one semester. Still? Okay, wow. How much is the car of that debt? $10,000. So what are you, 25? Yeah. Okay.

You sound like it. Yes, sir. It takes about that long to make a mess this big. Okay. You're okay. Yeah, I'm trying to get out of it. That's why I wanted, like, for example. Here's what we need to do. We need to back up. Yes, sir. The thing that's motivating you is I need a better job. I need a better career field. That's what's motivating you, and I agree with that motivation. Is that correct?

Yes, sir, basically. Yeah, I don't want to be a secretary at the state making $30. I want to be doing something that makes $60, $80, $90, or $100. That's what was running through your brain. That's what got us here. It wasn't you woke up one morning and go, you know, since I was six, I always wanted to do business analytics. That didn't come up.

You just are looking for some more money. Am I right? Yes, sir. Okay. Yes, sir. So that means you have called on the perfect day because Ken Coleman's goal in life is to help you find the highest paying possible job that you are passionate about and good at and love going to work every day, not just more money.

And it's not business analytics for you. So you're on, Ken. Ready? Go. Yeah. Well, I think you've done a lot of thinking about the type of work that you love. You thought about it when you went into college. What do you want to do? And don't get hung up on job title. What kind of work would you love to do? If you knew you couldn't fail and we got you fast forwarded into the type of work, what kind of work do you want to do?

Yes, so really, I would love to be an educator, and I did work in education. That's kind of also what was helping me with school and stuff. I was like, okay, I can get this job, and I can be an educator. Teaching who? Teaching those people what? For me, it was typically about middle age to high school kids. Okay, middle school to high school.

Yes, sir. Middle school, high school, I'm very passionate about, like, you know, geography, social studies, and world languages. So I would really like to teach them those about these things. So the problem with that is, or it's not a problem, the requirement for that is you've got to have a degree. And we can't afford school right now.

So as long as we know what the long-term play is, now we begin to back into this and we go, okay, we know what it takes to get out of debt, and we're going to walk you through the baby steps. We can help you there. But we've got to take care of that now so that we position ourselves for the next. Yeah, so the 35-year-old Kate is in high school teaching geography. Yes, sir. Now, what are the steps to get there? Yes.

So we got to get out of debt first, right? We can't go to school. We're not going to get a student loan. I just pulled up a headline. Today, millions of people are not paying their student loan payment right now. So I don't want you to do what everybody else is doing because what everybody else is doing is going to make you further broke, all right? So we've got to get out of debt now.

And then we've got to cash flow school so that you can come out and make the median income for teachers in the United States right now is about $61,000. But that could be higher depending on where you teach. The next class you take is going to be after you're debt-free, and it's going to be towards becoming a geography teacher in high school. That's right. That's the next class you take. It's not a business analytics class.

And you're going to pay cash for that class when you take it. In the meantime, what are we going to do? Every high-paying side job that you can come up with. You don't need to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there. You don't need to go on vacation. You need to go get your life back. Because right now, all this crap owns you. You don't own it. And so you're about to get in gear. I want you working 80 hours.

90 hours a week every high paying side hustle i don't want you taking anything cute or fun on the side i want you to take stuff that makes a lot of money as long as it's legal and moral and you're not ashamed to do it i want you to go do it right now i want you to make as much if you walk dogs or you pick up dog poop i don't care what it is i want you to make as much money as you can make in a short period of time ready set go because the faster you get this debt paid off and the

faster you have $10,000 in the bank is how fast you take the first class and then the second class and then the third class and then you become a geography teacher. Don't worry about overworking. Just before you die, you will pass out. Don't worry about it. Have at it. Go for it. Go for it. Go for it. Go for it. Hustle. Grind. Get it. Get it. Get it.

Get it. That's how you do it. Hold on. We're going to have Austin pick up and get you signed up for Ken's stuff. We're going to give it all to you free. It's the Get Clear Assessment. You need to take that and make sure you're right on track. And the From Paycheck to Purpose book. We're going to give them both to you. Now, get it. Get it. Here's the deal, Kate. $2,500 a month would knock this debt out in one year. It is doable. Doing it the way Dave told you.

It's just working really hard and putting every cent towards the debt. Get it! Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, the book Proximity Principle, both of them number ones. He also did an assessment that we gave that last caller called the Get Clear Assessment. It is one of the most popular things in the Ramsey store right now.

A ton of you come and get that. Ken, what do we charge for it? Like $30? $30, yeah. $30. And it takes you about 20, 25 minutes to take the thing, max. Oh, yeah. Maybe less. Yeah. And then it spits out the things you are good at, the things you love, the passions, and helps you identify the direction you're going. It's not merely a personality profile. We have the DISC.

personality profile in our website, in our store as well. And a lot of people take that. I love that. I've used it for almost 40 years now. But this Get Clear assessment is a step, two step, three steps beyond that in that it takes that same kind of information and then says, okay, here's where you'll end up, right? Yeah. Well, it's a self-awareness profile. It lets you know, okay, if I have a lack of confidence, maybe I'm feeling a little imposter syndrome. This is what I'm really good at. In other words, your skills. Think of your skills.

or talent as power tools. Then the second measurement is passion. In other words, what work do I look forward to and lose myself in? And then the third element is what motivates me? You ever wondered if you need to go to a conference or read a book to get motivated? The answer is you really don't. Motivation is about understanding what gets you up out of bed because these results, thought

fire you up. So the three elements come together. We call it a purpose statement, and it shows you what purpose in work looks like, and it's actually a job description. If I spend most of my day using what I do best to do what I love to produce results that matter to me, guess what? I'm on fire. And you have a famous phrase, you know, you can't light wet wood. It's the idea of you want to hire people who know what they're supposed to be doing with their life. And that's what this is. It gives you great personal and professional direction. Yeah.

I think that probably comes from that guy that came in one day and said, I'm burnt out. And I said, that's impossible. You were never on fire. I love that story. Yeah, and that's an example, right? Like, he had no idea what seat on the bus or even what bus he belonged on. And here's the key to that to get clear assessment of why it matters. If you want to increase your income, you'll do it by increasing your impact.

And when you are attractive as a candidate, as an actual employee getting promoted, that all leads to a bigger paycheck, which means we get through the baby steps faster. That's the time. And in the hiring and firing sections in Entrez Leadership, when we're teaching businesses and leaders about proper hiring and firing, one of the things I tell people to look for, one of the 12 hiring principles, is hire people whose eyes light up. That's right.

when they talk about doing that job. So good. You know, your body language changes, their octave changes, their eyes sparkle when they talk about the opportunity to do that job. That's the kind of thing you need to be aiming at with your life. Yeah. And Get Clear helps you do that. That's why I'm so proud of this material. It does really well, Ken. It's wonderful stuff. Thank you. All right. Ah, Daryl's in Roanoke, Virginia. Hi, Daryl. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave and Ken. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, sir. How can we help? Thanks for taking my call. For my question to make sense, I'm going to lead in with a couple quick points. I'm getting ready to turn 53. I'm already retired. My wife is scheduled to receive my pension if I pass away before her. We just paid off our house. We are otherwise debt-free.

And I'm 30 years into a term life policy, and I really want to let go of it before it gets expensive. So I was just calling to see if that would be the good thing for me to do. How much have you got in investments? How much do I have in investments? Yes, sir. I have my pension from my former employer. That's a pay stream to your wife if you die. I'm talking about investments. I have very little because we were...

Kind of a low-income family, and I didn't really have much to put away. 30-year term is out there, but 30-year term is unusual. You sure you have term insurance? You sure it's not whole life or universal life? No, I've already been paying it because when I was in the military and I was 23, I started it. Yeah, that doesn't mean it's term insurance necessarily. I'm asking, it's unusual to have a 30-year term insurance policy.

You mean it's been a level term for 30 years? You've never had an increase in pay in the premium? No, no, the premium's increased. I'm just saying I'm 30 years into it. So every year it's increased? It started out at $5 a month. How often did it increase? About every five years. I'm up to $40 a month now. Okay. And for how much insurance? $100,000. Okay. All right.

Well, the way we answer your question is, it sounds like you did buy a renewable term, and it's just your age is catching up with you because, of course, statistically, the older you are, the more likely you are to die. No kidding. And they charge more for it. That's how that works, right? So the way we answer the question is, if you died a day without $100,000 in term insurance with a paid-for house, the kids are grown and gone or no kids?

We have one left in the home, but he's an adult, and he'll probably be out in the next couple years. Okay. Well, he might be out tomorrow if you died today, because I'm not sure your wife can afford him without $100,000, because all she's got to live on is your pension, right?

I have a 457 of about $35,000. She is a teacher's aide, a teaching assistant with the local schools, and she has a retirement with the state's pension. Okay. So if you die, can she be okay without the $100,000, mathematically, not emotionally? Yes.

That's why, yeah, without any professional advice, I feel like she would, but that's... Well, I mean, it's pretty much math. I mean, her pension, your pension, and no bills except insurance on the house and taxes on the house because there's no debt. She's not going to be supporting a grown person who's going to be gone.

And with your pension, her pension, and whether or not she works the little teacher's aid job or not, can she pay her bills? That's the question. You know that. You don't need professional help for that. You can do a budget and look at that. Yeah. Well, right now, with my pension and her pay and my VA disability, we're beginning to have to pay. Your VA disability goes away when you do.

Right, yeah. She wouldn't have that. She wouldn't have that. So can she pay her bills on your pension, which she gets, if you die, right? To my calculation, she could. Okay. And talk to her about that. Right. Before you drop this. Because if $40 means your wife is taken care of, you keep the policy. But if your wife's taken care of without it, and the two of you agree that we're paying for something we don't need...

then you can release it because basically the rule works like this. The way you think about it is this. If the kids are, because you've got to feed kids if they're little. We've got to pay debt if we have debt. But if the kids are grown and gone, everything's paid off, house and everything, and we have a pile of money and you die, mathematically she isn't going to notice. You don't have a pile of money, but you've got a pension. So mathematically, that's when you become self-insured with financial planning.

So you have, you know, for the rest of you out there, you know, you're 56, the kids are grown and gone. The house has paid off. Everything's paid off. And you got $700,000 in a 401k and you die. I think she can probably make it. You've become self-insured by investing and getting out of debt and your need for insurance and raising the kids and kicking them out. That's, that's what does it. Okay. But if you buy, you know, if you keep the mortgage, keep the kids and keep the debt, you're going to need it. You're going to need to keep insurance.

So the financial planning, working the steps that we talk about, puts you in a position that you're self-insured. I think you may be. You're right on the bubble. I mean, if you told me you had $300,000 in a mutual fund in your 401k, I'd feel a whole lot better. But you don't. In your case, I think she's okay, but I want her to be okay with being okay. This is The Ramsey Show.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Joel is with us. Hi, Joel. How are you, man? Better than I deserve. Very cool. Merry Christmas to you. Good to have you. Merry Christmas to you. Where do you live? Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Lancaster. Awesome. Welcome. Good to have you, brother. And how much debt have you paid off?

$65,437 and one penny. Love it. How long did this take? 33 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? $42,000 to $106,500. I like that.

And a little under three years, you triple your income, almost triple your income. What in the world? What do you do for a living? IT. And were you in that field before? I was in the field during. And I did take a side job for about three weeks at McDonald's. And during that time, people from town went through the drive-thru and they were asking me, what are you doing there? And I said, I got bills to pay.

There you go. So I had a few people ask me if I could help them with IT problems, networks. And long story short, I helped a lot of local businesses wire up computer networks and do Wi-Fi for large buildings. Yeah. Good for you. And they made some good, that's some great side money. Yeah. Good side hustle. Using your skills. Excellent job. What kind of debt was the $65,000? Yeah.

- Yeah, so I had two credit cards and a lot of healthcare debt and a bunch of stuff pop up from a divorce. So I just had a lot of surprises along the way. And during my debt-free process, I had a lot of health issues. So I had a lot of ongoing expenses. So the majority of my debt was actually paid off in the last six months. - Wow, okay. How you doing now health-wise? - Much better. - Good, I'm glad. - Getting out of debt was probably the best medicine. - It is good medicine.

Your body doesn't have to carry around that stress. Yeah. And it's heavy. Very heavy. Yeah. So that's very cool.

Very cool. And you get the health issues behind you. You end up with more money because that's expensive. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry you went through that, but I'm glad you're here now. Well done. Well done. So what started this whole process 33 months ago with the Ramsey process? That's a good question. It actually started with a really low point in my life. Woke up one day and I was separated. So I was scared. It was the first day of the lockdown.

So one of the first things I did is I actually emailed the show. Someone reached out and responded and said they would hook me up with a Ramsey coach. Your wife leaves on the first day of the lockdown? Yeah. Her timing sucks. Yep. Wow. So I actually, it was a four-year process, but the first year I had to move on from that. But regards, it started with that financial coach, and she really calmed me down. You got one of the Ramsey coaches. Yeah. Okay. And...

she pointed out that I didn't have to pay all the expensive money for a divorce, so I found a lawyer that did it pro bono. - Oh wow. - Yeah. - Okay. - So from there, and the secret I found to get out of debt is I had to surround myself with people. So whether it was support groups, going biking with the guys,

just finding more work, getting to know people, gotten involved with the church. I had just found myself surrounded. And the most important people were my parents. My father's actually here with me. And to be honest, I think a big part of the reason why I got out of debt is because my parents brought me up right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, your life has been completely turned upside down and transformed. And in the middle of that, you said, I am not carrying this debt. Wow. Yeah.

I mean, you're facing health issues, a divorce, a pandemic. I mean, God almighty, you get the Fauci quarantine and a dadgum separation and divorce all in the same lick. And that had to mess up your income simultaneously. And was your health bad about the same time? Quite bad. I mean, you got like a perfect storm crap going on there. That's amazing. Wow.

So I want to follow up there because I think there are a lot of people that are watching and listening to your story right now. And they had a lot of other factors going on in their life that are bad and maybe causing the money issues.

And they look at getting out of debt and it seems insurmountable. I'm just curious with everything that Dave just laid out that you've shared that you were going through, how much did the focus on the baby steps, the focus to get out of baby step two, how much did that help you overcome all that other garbage that you were dealing with? Did it play a factor? A huge factor, to be honest. How so?

I was in the first and second step going in and out. You know, there were some months where I would deplete that $1,000 emergency fund. And again, going back to people and surround myself, you know, there were some months that were tough. So people from the church would feed me. Mom would feed me, stuff like that. And God showed up in amazing ways. I should have actually owed more debt, but I even had a local church step up and help me pay off some of my medical bills. So God was behind every corner of it.

That's powerful. Wow. Look at you. Well done, sir. I'm proud of you. You're a hero. You fought through some pretty serious stuff there. It's amazing. I mean, and now you're the other side of all of it. Wow. Yeah. And a funny fact, actually, when I first started off with my debt-free journey, I didn't have any feeling behind it. Like, it was like, why get out of debt? There was just no emotion behind that at the time. So one of the things I said to myself, well, if I get out of debt, I'm going to do a debt-free screen.

So here I am today. Oh, so that's like your motivation to come stand on that stage. We have to mark this puppy. Got to have some reason to be excited about this, right? We're going to Nashville. Load up the truck and head to Beverly. I love it, man. Good for you. Well done.

well done i like that that's fun well you gotta have something to aim at it's one of the reasons we do this people have this as a milestone the main reason we do it is all the people listening they're going to be inspired because there's somebody out there right now that's facing a job loss a health problem and maybe even a relationship problem all at the same time and they probably have 65 000 in debt and look at that and they and you're sitting up here going you can do it just your life says they can do it the way you've lived your life so well well done proud of you very well done um

You did most of it in the last six months. Yes. So like half of it. Just about half. So you've been, but your income came up from 42 to 106. So you had a great income. You had your health back. You could see the end of the finish line. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. It's not a train. And so you're just running hard the last six months.

Yeah, it actually got a little easier because I figured out how to do my side work more or actually work less and get more done. So it was really neat. It was a great learning experience. I got probably the best part of the debt-free process with finding out what I am made of and who I am.

That's awesome. I was going to ask, what's the emotional kickback now that you're done with this? You're about ready to do the scream, so we're not at the finish line yet, because I know that matters to you. But emotionally, as you look forward in life, relationally, professionally, how do you feel about yourself?

Yeah, for the first time I'm hopeful, happy, and I can truly say that I'm resilient. You are. You are. So the Ramsey coaches, that's one of the things about the Ramsey coaches. There's several thousand of them that we've trained around America. Some of them watching right now, some of our best and brightest right here. Some of our best coaches right here right now came down to watch this from inside our building, but we've got them all over the nation that have been trained by us. And one of the things they do when I occasionally get someone intersect my life that's at the very, very, very bottom where you were,

when all that stuff happened. And then you don't have the,

to carry yourself right then. They just pick you up and carry you through that. So true. They get the first few steps under you and just hold you up. And then once your feet start touching the ground again, they'll let you go and let you run. But sometimes you just got to have somebody walk with you. And you had a coach step in and do that exact thing with you. I'm so proud of you guys. Well done, sir. You and the coach that helped you. Well done. Very, very, very well done. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Do the baby steps one at a time.

In order. In order. There's a reason that one is before two is before three. Yep. And if the next one doesn't make sense, focus on the current one. Yeah, I like that. That's good. Four is after three for a reason. Yeah, that's good. I like that. Very good. All right.

All right, we've got the live and give box for you, the Baby Steps Millionaires book, which that's the next chapter in your story, the Total Money Makeover book to give to someone that's struggling and hurting, Financial Peace University membership. All of that is for you to enjoy or give away, and our way of saying thanks for coming down from Lancaster, Pennsylvania to do your debt-free scream. Joe, you're amazing. Yeah. You're amazing, dude. You're a hero. $65,000 paid off in 33 months, making $42,106.

while life happened. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! There it is! That's the reason he's been pushing it for that moment. Boom! Boom! This is the Ramsey shot.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. We're glad you're with us. Merry Christmas, America. Eric is in Indianapolis. Eric, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Gentlemen, thank you for taking my call. It's an honor to speak with you. Honor to speak with you. What's up?

Uh, my question is about a month ago, my wife and I decided that we were going to take the final amount of our mortgage, which was about 49,000 and pay it off. Good. Um, because, because we wanted to be debt free and we didn't want it just sitting in our bank account. Uh,

My concern is since that's occurred, I've not received anything from the bank saying that I paid it off. When I look on my account online, it's all zeros. That's good. But I don't have any sort of documentation other than that. What kind of mortgage did you have? A traditional mortgage or a bank loan or what? It was a VA home loan. Okay, with who? It was through Chase. Okay, all right. Chase is...

roughly the size of the federal government and about as efficient. Okay? So not to panic. All right? Number one, you've got zeros on your account, so that's a good sign. I think you have paid it off. There's not a question they think you paid it off. You think you paid it off, right? Correct. So technically what needs to occur is they will file a lien release, a mortgage payoff,

at the release of deed, a release of the deed of trust, a release of note at your federal, at your local county seat courthouse. If you live in Indy, it's Indy. Okay. Whatever, whatever county you live in, the courthouse records the deeds and they also record the mortgage release. That is the important thing because that clears your title.

Typically, they will send that to the deed when they finally get around to doing it. It might take them three months. Okay. I wouldn't worry about it, but they'll typically send it to the register of deeds, the mortgage release. The register will file it, stamp it, send it back to them, and they'll send it to you.

If you are worried about it at some point and maybe they never sent it to you, you don't have to have the receipt. The only person that has to have the receipt is the courthouse.

It needs to be recorded as being paid off, a lien release, a mortgage payoff release, okay, form at the courthouse. So, you know, that's what you want to verify has been done if you want to be nerdy about it. You want to call the courthouse or go down there and say, hey, look up my mortgage. I paid it off. I want to see if they have released the lien yet. I want to see if they've released the mortgage. And it's a one-page thing.

You're going to get a little bit of it. It looks like a little legal document that's one page long. It'll be folded up, have a couple of red stamps on it from being filed at the courthouse. It'll be in your mailbox. They'll send it to you. It's like the final paid receipt kind of thing. But all they're doing is giving you a copy of what was filed at the courthouse. You can lose that, and it won't matter. What matters is that the register of deeds at the courthouse doesn't lose it. That matters.

Follow me? Understood. Okay, so check courthouse into January if you hadn't heard anything and start calling Chase and go, dude, y'all need to release this mortgage. What the crap? It's been 90 days. Get off your butt, you know, and start jacking on them a little bit because they truly are. I mean, it's like working with a DMV. I mean, they're just awful. It's just they're horrible. These mega banks are just the worst.

But they will get around to it. They do have a system, but they are in no hurry. To them, you're one of 80 bazillion people that they're doing this with. Yeah, I love that quote when you said they're bigger than the federal government. It's really true. The amount of people, they're not going to move quickly for you because, honestly, they have to be in a state of shock that someone actually paid their house off.

That's part of it. No, they get, I mean, it's just, but it's, you think about how many mortgages Chase owns. Yeah, it's a lot. I mean, how many credit cards Chase, I mean, how many towers full of people who work for them and don't do their work most days because they hate their job. And, you know, oh my God, it's just pitiful. So that's what you're dealing with. Yeah. Eva is in Brooklyn. Hi, Eva. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave and Ken. Thank you for having me. Sure. What's up?

So I currently have credit card debt at a 0% interest rate, which will begin occurring interest in May. This was before I was a listener. And I'm contemplating whether I should use stocks or mutual funds to pay it off. Alternatively, I could become Morgan Sell intense about paying it off over the next five months. How much credit card debt do you have? $18,000. What do you make a year? Now I make $150,000. Good for you. What do you do for a living?

I work in the architecture field. You're amazing. Well done. How much have you got in a single stock? So I have $30K in stocks, and that would be considered short-term gains. And then I have $160K in mutual funds, which would be long-term, and then $40K in retirement. Good for you. Well done. I'd pull enough out of the mutual funds today, pay it off today.

Okay. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Why are you kidding me? You're playing footsie with this stuff. It's just a, it's, you got a mosquito in your house, you know, just shoot the thing. Okay. And I won't be charged more taxes or fees.

You'll be charged taxes on whatever you cash out in those mutual funds. You said it's long-term gain, so it'll be a 15% gain on the gain if there is any gain. And I don't know when you put the mutual funds in, what your basis is, but we know 100% of it's not a gain. So let's say there's a $2,000 gain on what you pull out. You might have $300 in taxes, but I don't give a crap. Get rid of this credit card debt and cut up those stupid cards too.

Get out of that business. I already have. Yeah, you're too smart for that business. Get away from those people. They're not good for you. Okay, will do. Thank you. The percentage interest doesn't matter. The idea of being free matters. It's just strange. We have completely...

And I guess it's, Ken, because we got trained by these rip-off industries with these debt products. Sure. But to be normalized. It's normal to have a credit card. Everybody has a car payment. Everybody has a mortgage. Everybody. Oh, shut up. Everybody's broke and dumb, too. I don't want to do that. That won't be everybody. That's crazy. But we get so normalized with this stuff that they have tricked us into

into only analyzing our personal situation through the lens of math. Yeah. We are leaving out the emotional, relational, spiritual bandwidth that is being taken up. Now, let's just talk about this. It's a great point. Seriously, this woman makes $150,000 a year. She is smart. Yeah. She's a brilliant lady. Very accomplished. Okay. Okay.

And the amount of bandwidth, she had to make a phone call to a national radio show because $18,000 at 0% has taken up bandwidth when she's got $100,000 laying in a mutual fund. Correct.

Because the 0% we've been taught, you're exactly right. This is the matrix. She didn't want to feel dumb. Right. She didn't want to feel wrong. Yeah. She wanted somebody that's an expert, somebody with a briefcase 20 miles from home, to tell her what to do, right? Right. And I'm not picking on her. It's just the state of our psyche is my point is to consider this whole debt issue only through the lens of math is extremely naive. Mm-hmm.

There are so many more layers to slavery than the simple math. Slaves don't have choices. Slaves lay awake at night worrying about where they're going to eat. Slaves aren't generous. Slaves have a different personality style. Slaves keep a job that they don't want to keep because they've got to pay the bills. Slaves are not even as nice to their own spouses.

The borrower is slave to the lender. There are elements, there are layers in our lives that are much bigger than the 0% interest, and yet we've been taught that, oh, well, I mean, you can borrow money at 0% and put it in a mutual fund. We're not going to, the psychological weight, the anxiety of that is not even brought up. That's right. This is really about freedom.

And everybody longs to be free to make a choice to do what they want to do when they want to do it. And you can't do that when you're shackled to debt. That's the big takeaway. And she's not shackled in a way that's limiting her. No. But it's just interesting. But it changes the way she thinks. My point is, in a brain as smart as hers, and she's just an example. I mean, I think she's awesome.

Oh, yeah. I'm not picking on her. But in a brain as smart as hers, this 18,000 at 0% was taking up way more space than she realized it was. That's exactly right. In her brain. That is not 0%. That's correct. That's a very good point. That's the matrix, though. They've trained us to think, well, the number's good, so put up with it. Because it's a good number. Yeah. I'm smart because I got 0%. Yeah. It's their money. I mean, this couch I'm sitting on, 0%.

90 days, same as cash. It rooms there, they win. Oh my gosh. This is the Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Merry Christmas. We're so glad you're with us. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author.

Host of the Ken Coleman Podcast, he is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thank you for joining us. Nate is with us in Austin, Texas. Hi, Nate. How are you? What's up, guys? How are you guys doing today? Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? All right. So I actually just turned 30 yesterday. Happy birthday.

Debt-free. Thank you. I am debt-free. I am on baby step four, five, and six, I guess. And my income is about $85,000 to $100,000 a year. So my question is...

I'm trying to save up for a house, but I was thinking of going a different route. So I want to try to save up as much money as I can for the next two to three to four years, right? And I want to basically buy a piece of land and put a mobile home on it and just try to pay it off in one big chunk. Okay. I can save up...

Pretty much 75 to 80% of my income. You're single? I have a girlfriend. But my point is you're not married, and so you don't have to talk her into living in a trailer. No, no, no. Okay. Yeah, so my question is should I try and save up as much money as I can and try and just –

pay something off cash. If you bought a piece of land and put a very, very, very, very inexpensive trailer on it, that would mean you'd be living rent-free, and you could very quickly then save up the money to build a house and get rid of that trailer. But whatever you pay for that trailer is going to be lost money. So we're not talking about $30,000, and we're not talking about $20,000. We're talking about $10,000 or less.

Yeah. Which ain't much, dude. Mm-hmm. This is not a high standard of living here. Yeah, correct. Yeah, your girlfriend's not going to be impressed with your abode. Yeah, so we already kind of talked about it. She doesn't really care where she lives. Well, she's not living there. You are. Yeah, but...

Don't tell her this, but I'm probably going to marry her in 2024. Oh, okay. Now we've got a different part of the equation. Yeah, yeah. That's what I've been naming it in this whole conversation. Your secret is safe with us. Us and 30 million people. I was going to say. There's just about 30 million of us that have to keep your secret now. But anyway, let me just tell you, it's a whole different equation for you to live in a $10,000 trailer for four years or your wife to live there for four years.

And I know what she says, but it's just a different equation. You can count on it. Guys, we can sleep under a bridge. It doesn't bother us. Not me. Ladies are, well, I know. That's true.

And, you know, we get accustomed to the finer things we do, Ken. But, I mean, Motel 6 is roughing it. I'm just saying. She may change her mind halfway through this deal. I agree with you. My question is, why are we in a, I'm not saying it's a hurry, but why is this the scenario? Why isn't it, let me save a little longer. Why not just rent an apartment and save a bunch of money?

If you're going to get married, I'd rent an apartment and save a bunch of money. Me too. I don't get living out on the land. I might live out on the land if it was me by myself, just because I love the math part of it.

No, so yeah, so I'm actually hammering a duplex in Austin, and I'm probably going to be there for the next two to three to four years because my rent is like insanely low. Well, yeah, just stay there with her then after you're married, and then you don't need the trailer, but just pay cash for the land and then save up and pay cash for the build. I'm okay with that. Yeah. That's a no-brainer. I like that better. Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.

But we've had over the years, Nate, we've had a lot of people that are listeners that have done the I'm going to buy a piece of land and live. We'll build a barn with a bedroom in it, a barn dominium, and live in the barn while we build the house. I've had people do that. I've had people buy the $10,000 trailer, put it on there. They do that. But I always answer questions like what would I do if I were in your shoes or

If I woke up and I was you knowing what I know now, and what I know now is Sharon's not living in that trailer. Yeah, that's a great point. Not because she's a snob, because she's not, and not because she wouldn't follow me anywhere, because she would, because you know that. You know she'd do anything for me. That's right. Oh, my God. Yeah. She'd follow me anywhere as long as it's to the Ritz or the Four Seasons. But the –

I'll follow you to the pool at the four seasons. I'll follow you to the pool. I'll follow you to the resort. You just know better. I'll follow you to the club. The point is you just know better. Yeah, well, I mean, we're old and we've done it. We've been there, done that on the sacrifice thing. So, but yeah, but the point is...

If I were 26 and married, that would not – that would be a different equation for me to do that by myself than I would ask my wife to do that. That's the truth. Now, some ladies are perfectly fine with that and some aren't. And there's nothing wrong with either camp. It's not a bad –

It's not a moral judgment, and it's not a snobbery thing or anything like that. I'm not too good to do that. So just keep your stupid little trolling to yourself on that. But that's not going to do with that. You just got to do thinking through what is realistic, what is sustainable, what am I going to be able to do for a long enough period of time that it has the effect. Yeah. Yeah. And it's going to take a minute. That's right. Carla is in Lansing, Michigan. Carla, how are you?

I'm good. Thank you, Dave and Ken, for taking my call. I really appreciate it. Sure. How can we help? Well, my question is, I have an indexed annuity, and I have an income for life rider on it. I'm thinking that it might be a good idea for me to exercise that, but because I don't know a lot about this, I thought I would call and get some expert advice. How much money have you got in this thing?

Its accumulation value is $103,000. How old are you? I'm 75. You have other money. And I'm debt-free. You have other money. Yeah, I have $32,000 in a high-yield savings. This is all your money. And I have a paid-for home. Yeah, and I have a paid-for home. I think the best route is going to be for you to cash the whole thing out.

and put it in a much better investment in a good mutual fund. I think. But without doing a detailed analysis on it, I'm not positive that's the case.

I would not do what you're talking about. It's not the best use of your $100,000 for you to take in a lifetime. I don't think. So sit down with one of our SmartVestor pros. Click SmartVestor at RamseySolutions.com. They can help you do a detailed analysis and show you what your options are, and then you'll be able to make the decision. They'll come at this not telling you what to do, but with the heart of a teacher showing you how all the math works, and then you can decide what's best. I can't.

I think it's going to come out best for you to cash it and put it in some mutual funds. But I'm not 100% sure. This is the Ramsey Show. Merry Christmas, America!

The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services for over 40 years. Neighborly has an exclusive network of trained local service providers, backed by the Neighborly Done Right Promise. If it's not done right, Neighborly will make it right. It's a great company, you guys. Check them out. Visit Neighborly.com slash Ramsey right now and you can learn more. Today's question comes from Joyce in New Hampshire. I am far from a helicopter mom.

but I'm desperate to find extra guidance for my son. He lives in Georgia. He's 25 and graduated. I'm sorry. You may protest too much. Is that how the phrase goes? Graduated from SCAD. That's Savannah College of Art and Design, for anybody wanting to know what she's talking about. In 2020, with a degree in digital and game design, he got a job in e-sports industry using his design degree. Loved his job. But in October 2022, 20% of the company was laid off.

The same has happened at several companies. Since then, he has applied to literally thousands of jobs. I'll come back to that in a second. Four digital design project management UX UI jobs. He has had interviews and several times he's made it to the final rounds, only to lose to people who were hired because they had just a bit more experience than him. He's currently at a restaurant, exhausted, deflated, and just existing. As his mom, it's been devastating to watch. I'm so proud of him for his strength, faith, and resiliency. However, I fear all of these will run out soon. Okay.

A couple things to point out here in the question. I'm not sure he's applied to literally thousands of jobs. That takes a long time. If he's done that, that's part of the problem. This is the online submission only where folks, you might as well be playing the lottery. Go look up the

odds on winning the lottery and you know what I'm talking about here this is you're getting filtered out by AI you are basically a nameless faceless person and you're playing the job odds we don't we don't use AI at Ramsey but we'll have 15,000 applications this year yeah

And we're not going to look at all of them. Yeah. It's not. I mean, we look at all of them, but like for half a second. Yeah. And so if that's all you did to apply for a job here and you count that as I've applied for thousands, you've wasted your time. 100%. And I hate to say that, but that's the reality. No, you waste your time. If all you're doing is monster.com, LinkedIn, and you're just dumping, you're downloading, ZipRecruiter, you're downloading thousands.

Thousands of applications simultaneously, and all you're doing is just spraying and praying. That's exactly right. Second thing that's jumping out to me in this question is he's gotten to final rounds a few times, only to be hired by someone who had a little more experience than him. There's two things as his mom, if you want to give him some wisdom and encouragement in this, we want to point out here. Number one, he's made it to some final rounds, so get back up on the horse.

Welcome to the real world. This is competition where people are applying for these jobs and you got to win and you're not going to win every time. This is what sports has taught me that I could give my absolute best and

and it's not good enough. And that's just the reality. It sucks, but it's the reality. Second thing is, it might be that he's applying for jobs that require more experience than he has. We see this a lot with young people. My goodness, I've coached thousands of people in their 30s and 40s who make this mistake. So what we want to do here is, we want to make sure that we're applying for something that I know he has the experience for, and now he's got to win the interview process.

And other than that, there's not much advice I can give you. I would add one thing. Go for it. Okay. We have a digital art student. Right. Right? Am I missing something? No. Okay. So I'm going to work on interview skills. 100%. I'm going to work on my grooming, my dress, my smile.

My engaging eye contact, a firm handshake, the ability to connect with the other human. Sometimes people in the creative community and the technology community haven't worked on those skills. That's right. Sometimes. Sometimes they have, but sometimes they haven't. And they could be excellent programmers, excellent digital artists or whatever he's doing in the gaming world here, and have crummy people skills. Yep.

That's possible. It's possible. And he's dejected and deflated, and he's coming in with his lips stuck out and his tail dragging behind him. That's right. So you've got to get your tail up and be wagging. That's right. Wagging the tail. Wagging the tail, baby. There are seasons where you have to do things like this, but I think there's three words that gets him where he needs to be. Relationships. Relationships.

Proximity principle. 100%. Wrote an entire book on that, number one bestseller. And it's how I started in my early 30s and broke into the broadcasting industry. Took me nine years to get to this personality role, something I dreamed of. So I'm not an overnight success. Very few people are. But it is about relationships, folks. Listen, that's where you get in the interview process, and you pretty much just have to do a decent job.

Well, your friend will get you the interview. That's right. But they've already heard good things about you. Or your friend's dad will get you out of the stack. That's right. Your friend's mom will get you out of the stack. And then you get the interview. So I was talking to a young man this week who just graduated with his MBA, and he was top of his class. He won the award, number one guy in the class academically. And he goes, now that I got my MBA –

And he said, he's changing jobs. Right. And he said, what's your advice? And I said, don't tell anybody. Right. I love that. You need to tell everybody that you want a new job and you got an MBA. That's right. That you're an awesome guy and you got an MBA. Not now that I got my MBA. Because I got to tell you, nobody gives a crap. Yeah. Nobody gives a crap. You know what MBA stands for? You're the number one guy, but nobody cares.

I'm a real encourager. Well, no, it's really true. I mean, it's just, oh my gosh. But the good news is that guy was sharp, and he already has two job interviews set up. And I said, how'd you get those? He goes, one of the guys was in the NBA program with me.

Works at the company, got me in, got me in the job. That's the deal. I said, see, the relationship got you the interview. You'll go hold your head up, look the guy in the eye, firm handshake. You'll get the job, and the MBA will just be a little window dressing to the whole thing. It is not the key to the door, baby. It is not. You're the key to the door. MBA stands for means barely anything. Yeah.

I came up with that the other day. I'm not crapping on NBA students. Oh, that's mean. No, it's not. It just means that it means barely anything. You nailed it. As his mom, I would tell him to get the proximity principle.

I tell you what, can we look this up, James, and send them one? We can find out who that was. That'd be great. We'll just mail it. If he's a caller, I'll just give it to him right now. But send him a proximity principle and have him go to KenColeman.com and look at the interview technique. Yeah.

We have a free guide there, how to win the interview. How to win the interview. And it includes grooming. It does, actually. It does. It does. I tell guys, iron your stinking clothes or steam them. Some guys are a job. You look like you just slept in them. Yeah. What's that all about? And then you come in for work.

And take a bath. Oh, my God. Yeah. It's amazing. It's true. Yeah. I'm not saying this kid stinks. I'm not saying that. Yeah. But he could. By the way, since the lady led the question with, I'm not a helicopter mom, this will blow your mind, Dave. That's like when you're dating a girl and she says, I'm not crazy. Right. It means she's crazy. You shouldn't leave with that. It means you're a helicopter.

mom. 100% of the time it means she's crazy. We're seeing more and more Gen Z parents show up to job interviews with their kid. No. It's absolutely truth. What is this? This is from HR data. No, actually physically showing up at the interview. Showing up with the kid. That's 100% means I'm not hiring that kid. No. Mommy walks in, you're done. Yeah. We're not even going to have a conversation. That happens at Ramsey. I'm going to tell them, don't even conduct the interview. Yeah.

The wussification of America. Mommy comes on the interview. Yeah. We should have a bat phone for Dave if somebody ever does that, and we call him, and he interrupts whatever he's doing. He walks in there and tells the parent what he really thinks about that. That would be brilliant on television. But this is happening. This is real. That's...

that's just you got to let these kids go i mean you have to let them live i can't breathe that's something i knew you weren't going to like that but that is absolutely real that is a growing trend where parents just cannot allow their kid to face this lady you know we're picking on this lady but she's she's just oh yeah i don't think she's a helicopter mom but don't lead with it if you're not that's that's a hint there too but

But seriously, she's worried about him. He hasn't been able to get a job. So she's asking a solid question. It's tough. It's tough when you get kicked out of an answer. I appreciate getting the deal with it because it is hard out there and learning to. But I think the most important thing I've ever learned about getting a job was from you. And that's the proximity principle. Yeah. I think that is more effective than any. There's no resume technique.

There's no guaranteed thing that makes you stand out. No. That's a bunch of crap, and it's certainly not a degree. You've got to get in the interview. You've got to win the interview. But the first thing is you've got to actually get the interview. Yeah. And that's the proximity principle. You've got to know somebody inside there that will open the door for you. That's a big deal. Huge. It is who you know. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. This is The Ramsey Show. Merry Christmas, America.

Bill is in Indianapolis. Hi, Bill. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking the call. Sure. What's up? I wanted to find out how bad of an idea it would be to gift my 18-year-old son my childhood home. Okay, so you own it free and clear. Me and my brother. Your brother wants to give it to him as well?

Yes, my brother, he's willing to give him his half. What's the property worth? Roughly right now, probably $100,000. Tell me about your son. He's stuck in...

Great kid. I mean, couldn't ask for any better kid through school and stuff like that. He has no ambition. He didn't want to go to college. And I wasn't going to push him. You know, just to send him to drink beer for two or four years. What's he do? He got him a job working at a same factory where my wife works at. Making what kind of money?

He's 1850, 1875, something like that right now. What's he going to do with his life?

Well, he doesn't know yet. So you led the question, how bad of an idea is it? And I'm not trying to read too much into that, but me thinks that you think it's a bad idea. Why do you think it's a bad idea? Yeah, what's going on? Well, I mean, just handing an 18-year-old kid a house, you know, the financial responsibilities. It needs...

It hasn't had anything done to it since the 80s. It is stuck in the 60s from when it was built. Wood pandering, acoustic tile ceilings. I mean, honestly, to make it a really good flippable house, I mean, it needs to be gutted. But he could sell it today for $100,000.

I think it would bring $100,000 right now, just the way it said needing to be flipped. So really the thing is this 18-year-old kid is making $18 at the factory, and we don't know what he's going to do with his life. You're handing him $100,000. Yeah, basically, yes. Yeah, you are. Because he could sell it right after you hand it to him.

Yeah, he could. He could. That's the term. I don't think he would do that. My thing was, you know, it was gifted to me and my brother by my mom. You know, she claimed it to us 10 years ago. So we have... You were an 18. Yeah.

Well, no, no. But, you know, if we sold it, it would all be, you know, capital gains, every bit of it. If I give it to him, if it's his, or if he holds it for two years, then he could sell it as his primary residence, and that capital gains would be gone. Yeah, that's true. You don't have capital gains on it, though. I mean, unless you got, did you get it as an inheritance, or did she give it to you proud of death?

She just, just, just private. Mom's still living, but she just, she just deeded it. She deeded it to you. Well, you are right then. You've analyzed that properly then. I wouldn't do it if I were you. I'm trusting you. You would? Yeah, I'd give it to him. Really? Yeah, but I'm going to put some terms on it. Here's my terms. Okay. I want to hear this. Okay. I want him to have a plan. Yes. For his life. Right. And for the renovation of the property.

Right. That's his sign that he, and the third thing is he promises never to borrow any money. Yep, I agree with that. I want to see a plan for renovation. I want to see a plan for your life.

and you sign a letter that says, I promise Dad and Uncle and Granny I'm never going to borrow money. I'm going to use this as a way to become wealthy. I'm going to live here. I'm going to renovate it. I'm going to sell it for $300,000 or $400,000 in three or four years after I fix it up and pay no capital gains on it. Meantime, I'm going to have a career, and I'm going to go do something and be somebody. I don't want him 38 years old still working there.

I want him to go do something with his life. Don't you? Yeah, I do too, but, you know, today's 18-year-old boys just don't have that drive anymore. Yes, they do. Some do. It's not about this generation. It's about the person and the environment. My question is, do you think your son, be really honest, do you think your son will honor that agreement that Dave laid out? I like that agreement. Do you think your son will honor it?

Yes, I do. Okay. I'd like to see him have some more hardship. I don't disagree with Dave's conditions. I love Dave's deal. But I'd like to see an 18-year-old have to work hard, save for something. Giving him that is a big leap forward. Might let him live there for a year rent-free with the promise of giving it to him if he does a couple of these things. I want him to do something hard. Let's put a little skin in the game. Yeah.

But I'm a little like that. None of this is anything except I just don't want – I want this to be a blessing and not a curse. It's a curse if he says, since I don't have rent, I don't have to work much and I don't have to work hard. That's what I'm worried about. And I can sit here in the old wood paneling and drink beer all weekend. That's right. And that's worse than having sent him to school to drink beer for three years. I agree with that. So, yeah, that's what you don't want to do. So, if you get something where we put him up on a track –

and he has an obligation that he's going to fulfill for his own good, then that's good. But maybe let him sit there a year, and at the end of that year, we will deed it to you. If you are doing these three things, you're promising not to borrow money, you have a game plan to do the renovation, then you've already begun some of the light work on the renovation while you're there. And I want to see some movement in your career. I want you to get up off your little butt and get in gear. And if you're going to do all that, we're going to give you a free house, buddy. If you're not,

then you're going to go be somewhere else. I like that. Might go for a year on it and try. I want to use it as leverage to get him moving.

That's where I'm at. I want gumption. There's an old word we don't use a lot, but I think I want to see gumption out of the kid, and I think the dad is worried about that. Yeah, well, he's just worried. The downside is it's a miniature version of a trust fund, baby, not quite. I agree. That's why I wouldn't give it to him yet. Yeah, I think put some stipulation on it, maybe do a delayed handoff, that kind of thing. I like the idea of where it could take him mathematically if he plays through.

And what you're saying, Bill's very true. He holds it two years. He sells it. He's going to have all that money tax-free. It's a tax-free up to $250,000 gain, and it'll probably be a full gain for a single if he's married by then.

It would be $500,000 that he can make on that house and have no taxes. So, yeah, fix it up, live there until he's 25, he's married, and he makes some serious bank. And by then his career has taken off because he's got a whole game plan. He's got up and got moving. Yeah, I like that kind of thing. If he's just going to sit on his butt and work as little as he can work, I'm going to get there late and leave early and not do much while I'm there.

and uh look i'm working for the weekend i'm huey news right huey lewis in the news that's right you know and it's just uh now if that's you then i'm not supporting that activity because it's not a blessing that's not going to give him the life he wants because i love him that yeah that kind of thing that's what i'm looking for bill but it's a great discussion and what a generosity move on your brother's part wow on your part but on your brother's part for sure yeah that's very kind to him i

I mean, that's $50,000. He's handing his nephew. I was sitting there thinking, well, you and your brother could fix that sucker up and flip it and then give the young man some investment. I get it, but I'll pay taxes if I got a bunch of profit. Yeah, that's true. You could go there. It's interesting. It's a great— Mama's house, Mama's still alive, so yeah, it's interesting. She'd rather have her grandbaby in there. Well, that's true. But you know what? You've nailed it. I'm worried about him getting adult camp.

You know, he's working at the factory where Mama works, and then he's got this free place and party hardy and all that garbage, and it's not real world. And I think that's what we need more of. I mean, you and I don't know anybody that would have done something like that at 18, other than the two people sitting here. But, yeah, we're the only guys that know anybody like that. But, yeah. Yeah. I would have messed that deal up. I'm afraid I would have as well. Oh, I promise you I would have messed that up. This is The Ramsey Show.

Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 29, 24. Those who are confused will gain understanding, and those who grumble will accept instruction.

Jordan Peterson says, in order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive. Well, Jordan, you got it down, man. Yes. You got that one dialed in, buddy. Proud of you. You scored. Yes. So, fun stuff. Yeah, I went to our friends at Daily Wire here in Nashville that have Jordan and I

ben shapiro and others on their team and uh of course jordan has spoken for us and i've been on ben's show i've known ben a long time and uh sharon i went to their christmas party the other night oh i didn't know this and uh they were kind enough to invite us and uh so we went down hung out with them and got to talk to ben a little bit i hadn't talked to him since all this stuff has gone down in israel and uh man it's pretty rowdy around their place the um imagine the death threats that he is getting right now uh

with the anti-Semitism that has risen is just nuts. Um, he, um,

He's just pretty nonchalant about having 24-hour-a-day security in his home. The only security I've got is the Second Amendment laying by my bed. But not as many people. I mean, people are mad at me and hate me, but nothing like those guys. Oh, yeah. Those guys, man, they get crap. Wow. It's amazing. But they were having a nice Christmas party. It was nice. I'm doing that. That's fun. Ben is a really, really genuinely nice guy. Great.

great great folks all right i'll name drop a little max is in toronto canada hey max what's up okay hey max how are you hey you doing well sir great to speak with you again you don't remember but two years ago we spoke my parents were going through a messy divorce and you helped me get in touch with a pastor who really blessed my life so i wanted to thank you with that first very cool very cool how can we help today sir

Yeah, the reason for the call today is I wanted to, I guess I'll just give you the question and then give you the background information. I'm wondering if I should quit my job to pursue a full-time career as an entrepreneur in the social media space. Okay, what kind of space? Yeah, so kind of my idea right now would be to do predominantly on YouTube as well as longer form podcast content.

What's your content? What are you offering on social media? What is the career area you're in? What are you helping people with? Yeah, so it would be self-improvement kind of show. Your phone's breaking up. Try one more time. It would be for self-improvement for young men, kind of in fitness. You broke up again. I think you said fitness. Did you say fitness? Yeah. Okay. All right, so what do you do now, and what do you make in that job?

I think we're having all kinds of problems with Max on the connection there. Max, you there? Can you hear me? No, we can't hear you at all. I'm going to put you on hold and see if they can get you fixed up. We'll come back to you. Sorry about that. Cadren is up and in Seattle. Hi, Cadren. How are you? Hi, I'm well. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. How can I help?

So, my husband and I are recently married in our 40s. We each own our own home. He has sold his. We are now living in my smaller home. He has a stepdaughter who we have about 50% of the time, and so we need to buy a house that is closer to her school district, and we also just need a little bit more space. So, my question is, we have a couple of options.

Option one is for us to keep this current home we're in, keep it as a rental, and buy a house up near this other school district. I assume the home that you're in has a mortgage and your new home will have a mortgage. Correct. Okay. I would not do that then. Okay. Yeah. You're becoming a landlord by default, not by plan.

If you were living over in that other property and had a mortgage, you wouldn't look up and go, I'm going to go buy a rental over there in that other neighborhood with a debt. This is by default. It's not by plan. You need to use every bit of equity you have and put it on that other house to have as little debt over there as you can have and get that other house paid off. When your personal residence is paid off, save up and buy a rental with cash later on.

If you can, when you can. But until then, right now, what you all need is to get a paid-for home to live in. Okay. Does that make any sense? That's the direction we always take people. Yeah, and that makes perfect sense. I'm just wondering, our 10-year plan is that in 10 years we would move back to this area where we currently live because this is ultimately where we would want to be after my stepdaughter graduated from high school. So even if that was our plan, would you still give that same advice? Yes. Okay.

And I'll give you another reason now then. Okay. On top of that, I own a home that we lived in for 13 years. I raised our children in, and then we built a home about the time they all left. That home has been sold. We're in a third home since then. But we've kept the other property as a rental. It was all paid for all along. It is an emote. And I know this. I've known this for, I grew up in the real estate business. I've been warned about this since I was 18 years old.

This is returning to a property you used to live in after tenants have lived in it is emotionally rough. They didn't do what they did. They didn't take care of your old baby, you know, and moving back into it is really hard because it shrinks after you leave.

It's like when you go back to your elementary school. Like, what'd they do with those rooms? They were huge when I was a kid. And they're tiny. How did we even get in the door in these little bitty rooms?

And, you know, I went back to one of the houses we lived in when we first got married, and the people were kind enough to let us go in. I found the shower I used to take. I don't know how I got in the thing. It was so small. Yeah, it just shrunk considerably, and I couldn't have gotten any bigger. That's not possible. But, no, it's emotional. You will have 10 years' worth of renters that you will have to rehab and clean out, and you'd be better off just to buy a different house. And...

That plan might not take place also. You might not be moving back there. You got a lot of fresh change in your life right now. And to anticipate what's going to happen 10 years from now in light of all this fresh change is very difficult. I would just make my life simple, clean, sell it. Let's go take care of this teenager, get her in the right school, raise her when she's gone. Then we'll reevaluate where we want to live. We might come back there. We might not. And you're not tied to it in any way by decisions you made a decade before.

I just dump that money over into the other house, get that other house paid for, build you a big old pile of cash. So you got options from 10 years that are completely unlimited. Put yourself in that position. It is so weird. You ever done that? Gone back to a house you used to live in? Yeah, I went back to my boyhood home about 10 years ago. We went back where my dad had started in pastor church for a long time. We moved away when I was 12. Went back. So excited to show my family.

And it looked like a dollhouse. And my vision was, I remember playing in this room and I thought it was massive. And I looked at it and it was like a cubby. So yeah, for my boyhood home, it blew my mind how small it was. Yeah, the house I grew up in was an incredible home. And it was 1,004 square feet. Yeah, that's about what mine was. My dad said it was just a little bit over 1,000 square feet. Hardwood floors, bath and a half. Yeah. Three bedrooms, bath and a half.

And, um, my, my parents bought it in 1963. Yeah. Um, and, uh, for $12,575. And, uh, um, the, we did not, I thought I didn't know living rooms all had furniture because ours didn't have furniture. I, when my, when we made enough money several years later to buy living room furniture,

And prior to that, that room sat empty for five years or more. I mean, I was a little kid when we got living room furniture, but I was a little kid with, and we played in that living room. It was like our own little gym. Yeah, of course. Because it was empty. And, uh, but they, they, you know, finally got living room furniture and put in there and oh my gosh. Did your mom put plastic on it?

No, that was one of their things. They said you should live in the living room. I agree. It should not be a museum. Love that philosophy. It should not be a museum. They loved the idea that when great rooms came out, they did away with the form of living room. Oh, yeah. And it was just one big family room. Yes. Yeah, big great rooms. I remember when great rooms came in in the 70s. Wow. Yeah, so that whole thing. But, yeah, it's interesting. It's an interesting idea.

Set of emotions. I like what you said. The advice is so great because you said options. That is the operating word. Give yourself options. Make a whole pile of money and options. And simplicity will add to your pile of money. It's good stuff. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Hey folks, Dave Ramsey here. You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind. And that's EveryDollar. The EveryDollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money. Start budgeting with EveryDollar for free right now. Just go to ramseysolutions.com slash EveryDollar and download the app today. That's ramseysolutions.com slash EveryDollar.