Serial S01 - Ep. 10: The Best Defense is a Good Defense
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previously on cereal .

there is no way that he was at best by two thirty six.

Did anybody else you to find?

Yeah and on I remember he is talking to a girl he put on a phone with for like three minutes such a .

hello car to be a seventeen year old kid. And no experience with with the system, no experience and stuff. It's very difficult to believe in early stages that this is actually what's happening. This must be just some huge mitic.

This is a global chAllenge if they call from and not.

say, IT.

And he made that maryland, the correctional facility, is completely be recorded in one.

From this american life and W, B, easy chicago, it's cereal, one story told week by week, and Sarah ic. Today's episode is most are going to take place in the courtroom. And before we're get into the arguments at trial, I just wanted play you this thing from a nounce jury selection used to be a reporter for the baltimore son, and I covered some trials.

And if I haven't be in the courtroom for jury's selection, IT was always such a good reminder of what living in belt ma was like for so many people. Here's what i'm talking about. December eighth, one thousand nine hundred ninety nine, jury election for announce first trial judges William corals asks a standard question of the jury pool.

have you or any close family member ever been the victim of a crime, convicted of a crime sort of time for a crime, or have pending criminal charges?

A lot of people rise from their seats and then line up to talk to the judge. I can tell exactly what proportion of the jury pool.

but IT looks to be .

at least half my hui. good. My house was broken into and we were robbed. When morning, you tell .

my husband rush shot.

I have a brother .

that wanted peace.

Seventy in may, my parent victims, and so and and october, my on shine and head.

My husband was convicted hand and violation.

and my brother will commit convicted of attempted matter, and my partner is a rate victim. I was wrong with a small amount .

of money industry.

Next two, two, zero, seven. Good night too. And what did .

you come up to tell me? I have .

two uncles.

two service OK. One guy says, we moved from a very peaceful town in organ to a violent community. And judge coral says, welcome the bottom.

Css asks all these people whether they think they could still be impartial. Jurors on announce case, some say no. When they get dismissed, some say yes, and he sends them back to their seats. He was on the look out for prejudice, all kinds of prejudice, against cops, against prosecutors, against koreans and against muslims.

One guy tells him he doesn't think he can be impartial because he's got a friend of the muslim faith, and he's seen him and also his son, to treat their families, a friend of man that was movement paid, and I in a mistreat its families, wife and everything, you know. And actually in this tween, him and his son got up. He get married.

He did the same thing to his void. So just could you know beyond the, okay, I appreciate that. Honestly, this brings me to something shameen told me when I first interviewed her shimei ramon and none's mother SHE mean in her husband say yes, remand.

They believe that none is innocent. There's no question about IT for them, but non's father said to me, we've had no happiness in our famous. Since said none was arrested, IT has been continuous torture. I.

I, I want to say, Billy may like my, I mean, my whole bodies like, no, you know, I can. Nothing, nothing. We know more.

yes, but I don't know.

He didn't do .

IT what. I mean, how do you guys make sense of what happened? How do you explain what to yourselves?

I mean, not to the outside world, to yourselves. Like, how do you understand why? Like you, we must think about that.

You believe me, just the only thing you know, I still believe you know, because we were as muslim. This is a discrimination when everybody feed the whole community because there was a muslim child, as why they talking is very easy for them to take him. Then the other people, this was so, you know.

and do you believe?

Of course, yes, I do believe two years, because he was easy to target, you know, for them to come in picking up. We still don't know why they're doing IT, but again, as a discrimination because we are muslim and we are in a minor in this country. So this way they good that .

I don't know. I mean, you can hear me not believing her, right? The notion that the cops and prosecutors in this case were driven by anti muslim feeling, by racism and by racism alone, that I found very hard to believe, and I still don't believe that, by the way, but I didn't want to to ride off, which I mean was saying either because maybe anti muslim iss crept in, contributed in some way to healy investigation and the prosecution Operated advert inly or inadvertantly.

SHE means that SHE hadn't personally felt discrimination just out in the world in boltin before the trial and SHE didn't feel IT after not even after nine eleven, but at a hearing on a non bail status on march thirty first, one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine. SHE felt at the course that day was packed with people from a don's mosque, the islamic society about to more. They raised tens of thousands of dollars for his defense.

They offered to put up their own houses, other properties, to secure bail, announce attorneys during the bell face of his case, where two guys named Chris floor and doug colbert, the family would hit Christina guitarist soon after for trial. Chris floor remembers the bus loads of people who came to announced ae proceedings, filling the courtroom in the hallways, said he'd never seen anything like that before or sense. I remember almost every inch of the available standing space in the courthouse at the wall back, just record with the bail review happened, being full up with people. So are a lot of beers and a lot of traditional garb.

Many of the people here are people who you would almost say their extended family. They care for each other's children, old fashion, sense of unity.

but stuck kober who did the talking during this hearing.

And so the people who are hearing this quarter represent the doctors and the teachers and the lawyers and the accounts and the correction officers as well as uh three religious leaders in month who are from different masks here in bolt more so the community here judge is here to say first of all, that they commit themselves to promise to vow that they will only supervise and none should he be released, should they will be said, but at the same time they will also accompany him to court as well.

After he finished, the prosecutor Vicky wash took that same crowd the people dug. Colbert describes as solid, respectable folk who make sure IT none as the right thing. Wash, cast them as a room full of ads and ebs. The same people who are likely to help him. None run away to pakistan, and that's why he shouldn't get bail.

The fact that the defendant has strong support from the community, that is what makes him unique in this case. He is unique because he has limitless resources. He has the resources of the entire community here, our investigation bills that he can um tap resources from pakistan as well. It's our position you're under that if you issue a bail, uh then you are issuing him a passport under these circumstances to flee the country. We do not want another shine by situation you on our, we are asking you.

I told I wasn't not take IT that judge David .

Mitchell telling the big crowd to settle down shine bine is Samuel shine bine, a kid who was accused of brutally killing another maryland teenager or in one hundred ninety seven, and that absconded to israel. Miss watch said. He talked to a mister Harry Marshall, a senior legal advisor for international affairs with the justice department. And mister Marshall had explained to her that the us. Had tried unsuccessfully to extradite certain criminals from pakistan.

And he cited that there is a pattern in the united states of amErica where Young pakistan males have been jilt to have committed murder and have fled to pakistan, and we have I been unable to extradite them back. He gave me a specific instance that occurring now that's pending in the car, where the factual pattern is frightening.

Similar again, it's a Young pakistan, pakistan male who was jilted by his girlfriend, who fled the country, and they have had no success. And he indicated that would be a dimmed situation indeed, if the defendant would. pakistan. We have information from our investigation that the defendant has an uncle, pakistan, and he has indicated that he can make people disappear.

That information about the bad as uncle. I think they ve got that from a non science teacher. I'm not kidding. The cops talked to this teacher on march twenty fourth and in their notes that says the teacher, mister nicholson, had had a none as a student year before.

The word brooding is in there then IT says, suspect quote, had an uncle in pakistan who could make people disappear. Unquote under that IT says they drained blood from cow at the mosque. One day he was pumped.

So that odd tidbit for mister nicholle son ends up as an argument at a non's bail hearing. I couldn't find any other source for IT and the detectives or states attorneys files I looked at, announce attorney, made a stab at fact checking washer's information, one thing LED to another. And three weeks after that hearing, miss wash writes a letter to judge Mitchell apologizing if SHE misled the court.

He said she's misconstrued information from mister Harry martial of the justice department. SHE talked to him again, and he made IT clear that there was not a pattern of Young pakistani men committing murder after they've been guilty and then running off to pakistan. In that other case, you'd mentioned the frighteningly similar one out of chicago.

Quote that case parallel sides z case only that IT involves a pakistani mail charged with murder where the victim was known to the defendant washroom, even in her apology. There's an error. Adnan is not pakistani. He's american with pakistani heritage.

And maybe this seems like i'm passing I don't mean to i'm only pointing all this out because to me, IT shows how easy IT is to stir stereotypes in with facts, all of which then gets backed into a story, something like those muslim men, they can't control their pride, their passions. They kill their lovers and flee the consequences with the full support of their families and communities. That's what shock to me.

Obviously, the state never said in was careful not to say adnan did this because he's a muslim, but they did skirt this idea few times at trial. They wanted to show that this wasn't a Normal high school romance, that this Young couple was under unusual amount of scrutiny and pressure from their families, and because announced culture forbid the very thing he wanted. That's why he reacted the way he did to the break up their various witnesses, talking about what happened at the homecoming dance or how the relationship was secret.

prosecute. Casey Murphy tells the jury the crime was not about love. IT was about pride. And in his opening argument, you've heard this language before in an earlier episode, but IT bears repeating, prosecutor Kevin europe talks about how had none reacted when he broke up with them.

Quote, he became enraged he felt betrays that his honour had been by munched and he became very angry and he set out to kill hamond. But merchant, it's not a word you're accused by accident. It's not a word you usually here applied to a seventeen year old kid at with non high school is a word from the old country where honour killings come from.

And this word, honor IT, comes up a lot to, for instance, one day I was looking through a huge set of documents from the detectives investigation, and I came upon a confidential report in late August of ninety nine. So six months after announce arrest, a woman who runs a consulting group that, among its services, helps law enforcement understand other cultures. Route report for detectives written a girl very titled report on islamic thought and culture, with emphasis on pakistan.

A comparative study relevant to the upcoming trial of a non siad. The report is eight pages long. I'm going to skip to the money shot summary as IT relates to mister quote for her to have another man dishonoured both at nancie and his belief structure IT is acceptable for a muslim man to control the actions of a woman by completely eliminating her on quote, IT goes on within this harsh culture, he has not violated any code.

He has defended his honour. Finally, for many ethnic pakistanis, incidents like this are commonplace. And in pakistan, this would not have been a crime, but probably a question of honor.

I have no .

idea what the cops made of this report, whether they looked at IT and thought, old deer and stuff ed in a file, never to be considered again, or whether they thought, huh, interesting. But they were, at the very least, in regular communication with this consultant, especially during the early stages of the investigation. Finally, I noticed the j also gives a shouts out to islam.

It's during the second trial he's testifying about what happened after he picked IT. None up at best, bias. They're driving back to school, jay says, quote, this is when we started to talk a little bit.

I don't know. He said to me that kind of hurt him, but not really. And when someone treats him like that, they deserve to die.

How can you treat somebody like that, that they're supposed to? And then all knowing is a law, you a gases? Him did explain what he meant by that.

No, jay says it's a detail. Jay mention ons neither to the detectives in his taped statements nor during the first trial. So why now? A lot only knows.

Reporting this story, I found plenty of examples of casual prejudice against muslims. One of announced teachers, for example, quote, think about what he would have been taught about women and women's rights. Another teacher I had talked to told me he was terrified at the time that announced relatives were going to come after her for talking to the detectives.

SHE told me SHE assumed his parents were evil on that website that list all the bodies found a leaking park. The author's commentary about haman lease cases. So maybe my prejudice is showing through, but who in their right mind lets their daughter data man named a non mouse ed sie?

The jurors we spoke to said announced religion didn't affect their view of the case. Lisa flyin said maybe at first had interested her, but then SHE pretty quickly realized that, more to the point, adnan was a teenager in amErica doing american teenager things.

He said once they all understood that whatever stereotypes they had went went out the window, which is exactly what you'd want in a jury but when we press them a little more IT seems stereo pes about a non culture were there lurking in the background? I don't feel religion was why he did what he did. IT may have been culture, but I don't think IT was religion.

I'm not sure how they culture is over there, how they treated women, but I know some cultures of women or second class citizens, and maybe that's what I was. I don't know, he just want to control and he wouldn't give IT on. That's jura.

William oons, here's still a armstrong they were trying to talk about in his culture, in the eric culture. Min rule, not women. I remember red her in there.

One were deliberating when were rare when were deliberating so um he had put put his whole life on the laugh for her, you know and he wanted SHE didn't want above anymore. The first thing Christino guiterrez announced, trial lawyer said in her opening statement about her client, this is in the first trial was, quote, a non massage. Sie is an american citizen.

He was born in this country like most american citizens. SHE obviously knew, despite what happened, a jury selection, that the jurors might be prone to anti muslim, anti foreigner sentiment, which probably explains why he spent what seemed to me a nutty amount of time during her opening talking about what an immigrant is, what a mosque is, what pakistan is. Quote, a country formed in the arab world in the tip of the landmass called a and quote, SHE talks and talks about how adnan was raised about Young romance.

The judge interrupts her four times. How much longer will you be? Misguided five minutes. Misguided as one minute miss cuts. She's rushing at the end when SHE rather quickly throw a suspicion onto j and then finally unto mister S, I know i've talked about Christinia guiterrez in earlier episodes about whether he should have talked to asian claim or whether her style might have graded on jazz. But now i'm gonna address this question head on.

Did he blow IT? You might be surprised to hear that ann's only beef with Christina in terms of what happened a trial is that SHE never contacted asian cline. He thinks IT wasn't deliberate on her part.

He just thinks he made a mistake like a surgeon slip of the scalpel. And personally, he was nothing but compassionate towards him, he said, always asking him how he was doing. He made sure he got the skin medication he needed, the glasses he needed. SHE was his .

protector. Then I love, I mean, I still see you just man and I just like a great view of thanks for back. You trusted .

her that like, he knew what he was doing .

up completely. I mean, completely honestly, I could no one could explain that. No one could understand that. Unless there, in that situation, the first thing I can think of, you combine a doctor and nurse, a school teacher, coach in your parent, you combine all that, then you may have an idea, and how much, you know, I trusted this good ears, yeah. In that situation.

your life, your life is really in her hands.

literally, right? literally. I mean, no, he never really mentioned what her plan would be. I never knew what I would be.

Christina died in january of two thousand four. So obviously I can't ask her what her strategy was for conger's reasonable doubt. I have to go by what we've seen in her notes and in the courtroom.

And based on all that, I can summarize her defense theory in four words. Someone else did IT, such as j. Or the new boyfriend don, or mr.

s. The guy who found the body. After all, he argued, we don't even know for sure when he died what day IT could have been.

The thirteen th or fourteen th or fifth Christinia wanted to show that once the cops zero in on a non, they ignored other viable suspects. So rather than pinning down an alby for her done, SHE dumped as much suspicion as SHE could onto these other players. I mentioned before that announced first trial ended in a first trial.

Here's what happened. Christina was what Chris floor described as a fighting person, generally a good quality and an attorney. That scratchy part of Christina, though sometimes IT could illicit a response, shall we say in the court room, obviously it's an adversarial situation. Both sides and announced case were suspicious that the other was playing fast and loose when they could and IT could get briefly. Here's prosecutor casey Murphy during a bench conference at the first trial before judge corals.

So I had object to defense council calling my co council as her at the trial table.

I should do just, I denied here that I wish I could complain to a judge every time someone called me and asho. Anyway, coral says he knows Christinia to be a quote, pit bull on the pant leg of justice on quote, but an otherwise curdish person. And how about everybody just behave themselves? Okay, but five days later, corals loses his patients with Christina is over something small.

Kevin york asks if he can show exhibit thirty one to the jurors the nt call records from announce phone join calls from january twelve, thirteen th and fourteen th Christino says he hasn't seen IT before. York says that's not true. SHE has.

They're stipulated to the call record SHE says, yeah, but I had actually looked at IT before. I haven't physically seen this exhibit. Corals calls him up to the bench, miss guiterrez.

He says, if you're going to stand there and light to the jury about something that you agree could come in, i'm gonna permit you to do that. Christinia says, judge, the fact that I agreed, but he cuts her off. That was a lie.

You told a lie. I'm not onna permit you to do that. That's not a light.

Judge, I resent the implication. Christinia starts getting heated now. Coral says, please be quiet. Please be quiet, SHE says. It's very hard to be quiet when a court is accusing me of lying.

I don't want to overdo IT here, but it's possible that had this bench conference not happened announced, her life could have been different. That first trial, according to a none to Christine's colleagues, to people who were watching IT, seem to be going well for a nonne. IT was moving fast, and j seemed to be more on the defensive.

Then this happened. And of course, jurors overheard IT despite the White noise they turn on during bench conferences to muffle sound. After a break, cristina asks for a mistier.

Coral says he's gotten note from alternate number four, in view of the fact that you've determined that miss guitars is a liar, will SHE be removed? Will we start over coral sea? Christinia? Your motion for this trial is granted.

Julie remi was a lawd clerk for Christinia this time and he said moving into the trial number two, Christino was confident I mean.

looking at the juries pulled after the first uh to the end of the stay state case and they're giving in the indications that they're going to acquit and then you turn around and try in front of a different jury and IT comes out completely know the opposite way.

So you guys pulled the jury after the mistral.

I wasn't part of IT, but I knew the jury was pulled after the mistral by her was by her and I believe in block outside OK Michael involved not not sure but the jury was pull and IT was at the end of the state's case um they enter view the juries and and they gave every indication that they were getting tour in a clear in fact.

IT wasn't quite at the end of the state's case that A T and t expert hadn't testified about the cell tower technology and jen hadn't taken the stand either which is significant but it's true the jury had heard the bulk of the state's case to .

have that information. I mean, got to feel pretty good about that. The defense, turney, I would expect him being a trial turning myself that you would kind of want to stay the course and you know keep doing the same things and hope you get the same kind of result. But you just never know these juries.

true, different jury, but also different judge, slightly different arguments, different weather, for all we know, winds blowing slightly more this way or the at. There are so many factors, including chance, which no one wants to think about in a first trick murder case. But of course, luck is part of IT too.

About a month later, they start all over again with trial, too. Christine strategy is the same, try to show that someone else killed her. SHE did a lot of research in hopes of linking mister s to the crime, or at least trying to link him to j.

Did he patronize the to where they worked, for instance? But he never succeeded. During that second trial, IT takes him doing, but SHE finally gets mr.

s. On the stand. He's so desperately didn't want to be there. The quota staff basically had to prevent him from leaving the building. So even though he's her witness, his hostile witness, her Christinia trying to get him to explain how work orders at his job got filled, we could get to .

episode job we would do IT at the time. We can't do IT at the time. We do IT when we can get you .

as my answer, which might be the .

next day.

whenever when you work, David and you then need.

I guess.

ouldn't get well just now it's a yes.

When you work day, don't you leave? Of course, mr. S was more of a side dish. Christina's main prey was jay, SHE tells the judge.

And I just like to be heard that is our entire defense theory to make jay was the person who committed crime um with all the ways in in which he acted guilty and describing ways in fact in which you acted with consciousness of guilt by concealing evidence his plus his boots, his outer coat, his shovel, wiping shovel to conceal evidence, as he said, but in a statement and on cross to conceal evidence of women casino cross examine on five .

different days SHE was exhaustive and exhAusting her questions are detailed and deliberate but somehow the way he questioned him and maybe IT was the half speed passing or the sing song I aggression somehow to me IT added up to something less than effective. Her punches, and there were many, many punches, don't always appear to land.

The prosecution is like A A mash ful job of presenting the facts.

Announced Christina. Actually, he calls her misguided, as that miss good areas did do some great things for him. He was successful. Embarrass the school nurse from testifying at a second trial, for instance, that was a woman who said he thought, and none was faking his reaction after his death, but he says he wishes some of her arguments had been clear. The state argument, flawed as that meant, have been IT.

was at least linear. IT seemed like ristal midy eras. I don't say he was confusing things, but he was to say IT wasn't like a clear outline like the prosecution had.

IT just seemed like everything was kind of jumble. But he took so long to question j. SHE took so long across exam people, IT was just like, IT was almost like, you know what?

You remember what we started talking about? You lose the thread of what is you right?

right?

To give you an idea. Jays first and second tape statements to detectives. He tells them different stories about when, and none first told him he was going to kill. Hey, in the first statement he says that none mentions IT that same day, january thirteen s while they're driving a non back to school at lunchtime.

In the second tape statement, he says a non told him the night before, and also that a non had been talking about IT for four or five days already. When he testifies at trial, though, he goes back to the first version that he first heard about IT from a non on the thirteen th. So obviously Christinia questions, jay, about all this is further territory for her side. Listen to how SHE does IT this tape goes on for a while, by the way, but I want you .

to get the full effect occasion you told them. Well, the conversations I had without one sight, they care red, four, five days early.

this man.

and let me make sure, because there are no later. The first is very first interview occurred at a time when they research, recording what and on dedication. Did you tell me good on thirteen?

Then you're .

second in a year after the take reporter got turned.

On the fifteen of march. I. Believe so in fifteen, the. You told them that and then told you that he was gonna kill that. So on the fifteen, you actually told them that you knew a whole day at a time when.

no.

So something just happened. Jay just admitted something or didn't admit something, but I honestly can't tell if it's a point for the defense or for the prosecution or if it's a draw. There are lot of stretches like this where IT seemed as if cross examination went so far into the weeds. IT was hard, even for me reading IT years later, to hack back to the main trail. A jury that dana interviewed, a good name, theater votis, said Christinia strategy was a little lost on them too.

Defensive change, everybody would know, spend a long time ago, but everybody would seem to think that they are talking, but do not say .

enough there.

not making a point, so they would just like a lot of words.

right? IT talked and talked and didn't prove anything.

Inking I me I think there's a good chance, though, that Christina leaves these threats hanging for a reason. As another defense, a turn explained to me during cross examination, you don't anna tie each point up in a bow in the moment you don't want to tip your hand because on the other side might come back with questions on redirect examination that could undo what you've just laid out.

So you save all the threads and then tie them up in a nice, fat, unassailable bow at closing, after all the testifying is over, N N D. Christina does revisit jays testimony at her closing, the gist of which is the detectives arrested in non because of what j told them. And what j told them wasn't true, quote.

And he lied to them about many, many things. IT wasn't just that. Things didn't match up. They were lies. They called them lies.

J called them lies on the fifteenth of march, on the eighteen th of march, on the thirteenth of April, every single time lies and quote. Clearly, Christinia put a ton of time and effort into discrediting jay, but the fact is the jurors believed them. They didn't think you'd be sitting.

They are talking about this, if I weren't true. SHE was less rigorous ous on other aspects of the case, the cell phone records, for instance. Her main argument there was that the way the state's expert, abana waz, tested the sites wasn't valid because he used in erick and phone to make the calls a different brand than an nance, which turned out to be a bad bet on her part.

The brain of the phone doesn't matter, but what he didn't do with the cell phone evidence was attacked, the state's timely, called by call, tower by tower, or point out with clarity that a significant swath of the day, the hours between noon and six pm on the colleague, do not match jazz testimony. There did come a moment in the second trial, though, when Christina really came to life and just kicked us, SHE teased some information out of j SHE hoped would change the course of the proceedings IT had to do with jays plea agreement with the state and specifically the attorney who was representing jay according to a none. When he figured this one thing out about jays, lawyer SHE told a none. This was their big chance.

Number of people get really excited about that. Like this is like a huge nag.

Jay had been charged with a felony accessory after the fact of first gree murder. He pleaded guilty and had an agreement with the state that, if he CoOperated, basically showed up in court and told the truth, his sentence would reflect that. In the end, he got no jail time for that plea.

He had his own lawyer, a woman named and Peter oia. SHE was representing him. Probe ono. SHE wasn't a public defender. SHE was a private defense tourney.

Now Christina had been complaining to the court that the prosecution hadn't been totally forthcoming about jays plea and how IT came about, which isn't unusual in a trial like this one. But in the middle, the second trial, jay says something, something that kristina would later call the magic information. IT happened on the stand when he was asking j how benarbia came to represent. SHE asks, did anyone help provide you a lawyer?

anyone? Helps by to our all this.

mr. York.

the prosecutor in this case, help provide you a lawyer.

This.

what guitar freak out, this is the magic information. J testifies that after his last interview with detectives in April of ninety nine, he had no contact with the cops or the prosecutors until september six, so a long stretch where he doesn't know what's going on. He says he called the office of the public offenders to try to see if he could get himself a lawyer, and they told him, unless you've been charged, we can help you, which is true.

So j is the next thing that happens is the cops come to see him on september six and tell him he's about to be charged with accessory after the fact and that he'll be able to get a lawyer the next day, september seventh. They can pick them up, they book him, and they take him to states of chinese office. He meets Kevin york.

The prosecutor jane says he's never met york before. And then he says york introduced him to and benaiah, who can represent him for free. Jane Peterson, ia talk privately for a while.

Then they signed a plea agreement. Then that same day, they all go across the street to the courthouse and present the signed plea to a judge. If you were a loved one, is an attorney your jaws hanging open right now, correct? Prosecutors do not find attorneys for witnesses they are prosecuting, but is not a thing.

A former prosecutor worked in the bottom or office at that time, said sh'd. Never heard of anything like that happening before. IT sounded very strange to her. Hence, good teas is freak out.

There is no jurisdiction in america. Their forms of prosecutor not want to pick capture for its witnesses.

Nowhere if jay got a free lawyer, thanks to the state, cristina argues. That's what's called a benefit. It's worth money. And IT could look like j is being paid by the state for his testimony, or else maybe j felt, behold, into the state for giving him the benefit, and therefore might lie to please them.

And if I could look like that, he says, then the defense was entitled to know about IT before the second trial or the first trial began. And here SHE was learning about IT at this late date that he said was a violation of the rules of discovery. SHE sounds so mad, the jury is not present for this ranting, by the way. But probably SHE was also giddy with gotch excitement. SHE told the judge, this is so patently .

improper to have a witness who has this benefit and they feel inject IT in a way that may affect what he justifies to to the menu, providing a mlada to the new selected year. Once you'd bitten into this.

Christinia did not let go. He wanted to rest from IT everything he could, maybe a mistier, maybe some other. They spent hours on this issue over several days of the trial, sometimes in front of the jury, sometimes night.

I called them a roy about this to find out if IT was true, that europe saw her out, and that the first time SHE met jay was in eureka's office. On the same day they signed the plea agreement, SHE said. No, IT could not have happened that way.

Absolutely not a trial, though york doesn't dispute IT and IT j sentencing in two thousand Better roy access to the judge quote, when mister yuk first to asked me first mention this case to me and asked me if I would consider speaking to j and quote, the judge warned to heard, agreed with Christina that this arrangement looked fishy at best. SHE was not happy about IT, but he also said the witness in question, that is, jay, he doesn't seem to be aware that it's messed up. He doesn't appear to think he's getting a benefit or being paid in some way for his testimony or did anything untoward went on.

So IT would seem his testimony isn't tainted by any of this, and that's the main thing. So a for effort judge heard tels, kristina, but overwhelmed. And that more or less was that.

In terms of defense witnesses, the case Christine abroad was swift or took about two and a half days for her arrest. Aside from the cops, a private detective and the guy who surveyed the barrel sight in the in park, the other witnesses Christinia a put on the stand were mostly character witnesses who had either neutral or nice things to say about IT.

None, whatever his assignment, had not strive for excEllence at all times. He is serious, remarked that he is a bright continents and hardworking student who approach to study with .

the priest that's a non's guidance counsellor but stucky reading from a college recommendation SHE wrote for um which incidentally SHE printed out for a non on generate thirteen .

the same day hay disappeared he was the last defense witness a trial place in central competition into the kansas black free furthermore.

When robby, a child ery first told me about announce case SHE, knowing he thought Christina had bugled IT on purpose. Even so, SHE could make money off the appeal. That was the only way robbia could account for screwing up the asia thing. And SHE said he thought Christine's defense, the witnesses SHE brought, were laughingly weak. I do not agree with roby's assessment of Christina. I do not believe Christina through this case on purpose, because from reading the transcripts and watching the trial videos, you can see her scrapping unannounced behalf at every opportunity, sometimes in long, in rather beautiful ly constructed temporary ea's paragraphs SHE made a thousand strategic decisions about what to pursue when SHE had four clerks, plus and associate to five people working on the case is not like he did some sloppy rush job.

You know, I know that losing the case, he was sick over work. I don't think you ve ever got her with that case.

This is Julie reme again, who worked for Christina, the time of announced trial.

And I can take the physical effects in the depression that, you know I saw first hand SHE was um I think he wanted to kind of a deep depression after that case and I don't think you ever really bounce back and SHE really was impacted by the loss of that case.

People who worked with Christina back then. They also the same thing that he was tireless and SHE cared a lot about her cases, including a nance. She's always going going one hundred million hour.

One guy said she's sort of fly into the office in the morning sun, glasses on hair flying in barking orders. SHE smoked and SHE cursed, and SHE fiercely mentor her clerks. SHE could be a giant pain in the ash, but also he was a giant in the profession, not just in maryland, but nationally.

SHE did the first, or at least one of the first DNA cases in maryland to figure out how to explain IT to a jury. I heard a story that he went to a grade school in practice. Each time a kid said here, SHE didn't understand the science.

SHE started over, created one of the first cases in maryland that used luminous to track bloods Better. But six people told me he was brilliant, not in a hyperbolic way either. Despite her Stellar reputation, though, IT does seem as if something not right was happening with Christina around this time.

Everybody says he is the best. She's the best. So she's we was like, you know, we was begging her to take her place that's .

shameen a nonce mother. Shiner has been consulted with friends and leaders at the mosque about who to hire. Everyone said Christinia sounded great. They felt like they we're lucky together.

Whatever he asked for, you know, we will just going gait before SHE we lose her, you know, because we was afraid we lose that we don't have not, you know, like a atterley. SHE means that .

Christine's bedside manner, at least with them, lacked a certain delicacy. SHE said they were both intimate by her and that they could never get her to talk to them about a nce case or what was going on. And SHE means says he thought kristina had lost some of her magic in the courtroom by the second trial that SHE seems sort of agitated so .

in other time he would be smoking in and out in SHE was ready in a risk of person before SHE was. Unlike that, the first trial .

kristina initially asked for fifty thousand dollars to represent a non. That fee would more than double by the end of the second trial. Members of the moss had donated lots of money to help pay her, but SHE meum says that told the end of the second trial Christina had begun to bully them about money if they managed to get Christinia on the phone or in a meeting, smiths said. The only topic would be money, money, money, smee said. At one point, SHE means, says Christinia told a non's parents SHE needed them to bring her ten thousand dollars cash to the courthouse to pay for jury expert.

So it's what kind of you know strange but when I told my friend I know don't know she's doing her job.

you know that's weird .

that's strange was rude to me because .

as if so you know how could you even .

fit ten thousand dollars in your you say bring IT cash. Imagine I mean, usually they supposed to take the check like you know, but he said not bring IT .

cash at the only time that .

he has forecast. Yes, yeah, he is for yes.

But evidently SHE never hired the expert. SHE mem says there came another time toward the end when Christinia insisted announce parents owed her money and that he could take their house if they didn't pay up. They said they had paid for everything.

They are so scared they transfer their house into their oldest son's name. I bring all this up because announce parents were not the only ones who had dealings like this. With Christina, I spoke to another couple, ron and sue, White men, and to hear them tell IT on the heels of announced conviction in early two thousand, cristina began to go down help pretty fast.

The whitman's hired Christinia to defend their fifteen year old sun and what might be the worst in sattest case i've ever heard. Their son's act was accused and ultimately convicted of killing their Younger son, greg, who was thirteen, is just a terrible gsm confounding case. And so the parents, I can even begin to imagine, but anyway, they seek out Christina because she's been recommended to them, and they are read about her defense work in the paper.

And at first he was great, they said. SHE successfully argued a couple of important, pretty al motions. Ron women said he was magnificent in the courtroom.

But then it's time when on things start to get weird. This is around the same time he was working on a non's case. SHE be late, really late.

Filing brief s with the court. The women's case was in pensylvania. They live right on the border with maryland. So that meant the briefs had to be filed in the course.

And harassment g they'd check in for weeks in advance with Christina, they said, asking, how's IT going? When can we review the brief? No brief day of, even no brief.

Twice, ron had to go wait for the brief in person at Christina's s office and ball to more, and then raised the eighty miles to Harrisburg, meeting up a zu along I D. Three so they could get IT stamped by four thirty P. M.

At the court. Ron said one of them would have to run in while the other waited. They didn't even have time to park the car.

The women's talk about many of the same things. Chemie told me that they couldn't get a hold of Christina or saw that things weren't getting done. But when they ask people who knew they were told, don't push IT, it'll be fine.

Here's suit, man. And they would say, me, this is how tina works. This don't talking what to do.

This is what he does. She's very good at IT. Don't worry about IT.

So someone that has worked with tina for years tells you that this is just her way. Then you think that this is just awake. Brown says he got worse and worse, announce trial.

And in in late february of two thousand. By the end of that same year, Christina had been hospitalized at length. SHE had diabetes.

SHE had M. S. SHE got very, very sick. Her law clerk told me they bring files to in the hospital. One of them told Christina with sneak cigarettes in the bathroom. In other words, he was still added and maybe SHE shouldn't have been. Ron wood, man, says he should have been cleared to everyone around her that Christina couldn't keep up with her cases, but no one cried uncle.

Ultimately, in january of two thousand, one, if I had my ears correct, we had a brief deal at the supreme court of the united states in ten days. And SHE had told us that he had a university of bolton law professor who had SHE had worked with many times before doing the draft. And finally I called him and he said, I am to talk to tina about your son's case for a year in a hf for two years.

The government say Christina asked them for an additional sixty five thousand dollars for work. He had to know full well he couldn't do that. They gave her twenty five thousand dollars for an expert, but Christinia never paid the guy.

So he came to them for the money. They said that happened with a second expert, two for a few thousand dollars. If he was too sick, why didn't SHE tell them? Why did he leave them hanging?

City's career had collapsed by the spring of two thousand, one a year after announced trial ended. According the newspaper stories in the baltimore son written by me, cassini had gotten in trouble with the attorney grieve van's commission of maryland. Clients were complaining that he had taken their money and had not done the work SHE promised or not used at the way he said he would.

The state fund that compensates people when their lawyers misuse their money paid out a total of two hundred and eighty two thousand and three hundred and twenty eight dollars on twenty eight claims against Christina. The largest payout was to the Whiteman's. The women's feels though he was lying to them, trying to get as much money out of them as he could.

A more generous assessment would be that Christinia was denial about how six SHE was. And people who work with her told me he was never much interested in the business side of things. IT wasn't her fourth e one former law partner of Christa told the womens that Christinia had been slipping for a while past five years even.

They're been a lot of news stories this week that a non's gotten an appeal. That's not quite true. He had an initial appeal, which was denied, and he had a hearing for post conviction relief also denied.

But he appealed that denial to a higher court, the maryland court of special appeals, and recently that court ordered the state to respond to one aspect of an once petition by january fourteenth. So IT is still alive by a thread. Announce petition is based on a claim of ineffective assistance of council, meaning Christine guera screwed up.

The brunt of the claim is about asian claim that he might have provided an alias for than a trial if Christina had talked to her. But the part of the petition that the higher court wants the state to answer is actually about a different complaint, namely that adnan had asked Christina to seek a plea. Al, twice he had asked, and cristini ever did.

IT prosecutors in announce case said they never made an offer, but Christino also didn't seek one, even though at nance says he asked her to once before his first trial and once before the second. When I first read his petition, I told the non that I found IT hard to believe he'd asked for a deal. He's been so unshakable for fifteen years that he's innocent, that he had nothing to do with his death.

And IT also seemed me as if he trusted back then that the system would sort all this out and he's go home. But annan told me there were times when he was really scared. He was trying to be brave for his family. But then he, your stories, or watch guys he knew, get fifty year, seventy year life sentences and he would hit him. I could be in prison for the rest of my life.

I think he is so difficult to understand these things. Not ever haven't been S H like. I would always think before I ever came to jail that a person only would plead guilty to something because they did IT.

You know, no way would a person never be guilty to help her. Once you come into, like, this whole system, one thing that you really learn is that no one really beats cases. And when IT comes to, like, first degree murder cases is almost impossible.

I can think in all years have been in prison. I could, I think of a handful of people who ever beat the first Green. Better case, simply because, you know, the other, just so that issue. So there are people that like, i've met and I known and i'm so jealous with them.

And no, not the best way in a good way, because when we were over the jail, over the city jail, they know your advice and look, and you should take a real life suspended at thirty years, life suspended for twenty years, whether you did IT or not, because the way the elements in the case are, you know, you don't have like a strong alibi. You know, someone come in a court saying that you did IT, whether you did IT or not, you gonna in front of a jury as well. People are going to conviction because they have never sats in your shoes for for.

So it's really a choice if you have in a life sentence. There is a choice if you have in my life, because now I still communicate with some of he's guys. They're actually getting rate to go home. You know, fifteen, sixteen years later.

anna says when he's seen Younger guys come in on paro violations or for whatever reason, he tells them take the deal regardless of whether you did IT take the deal. Because that none has maintained his innocence, he's got no hope of getting out or very little hope. That's how the system works. He understands that now technically a none is eligible for parole, but the chances of getting IT are so slim for anyone with a life sentence for first agree murder, but especially if you don't show or more, because you know one of is a psychopath right next time on cereal.

Serials produced by Julie snyder dana hivin me, Emily conn is our production and Operations manager. Hour glasses, our editorial advisor research, in fact, checking by michele le l. Harris administration of support from a east burger son. Our scores is by mark phillips, who also mixed the episode. Our theme sung is by nick thorburn, who provided additional scoring special thanks to john bee minor, tario corner from purdue e university, Scott covert, crag tibert maritz kn liza's lic truck, softer, Blake Morrison, David cone and anti lesser our website where you can listen to all our episodes and find photos, letters and other documents from the case, and sign up for our weekly emails, serial podcast that org, serial reproduction of this american life and W B E Z chicago.

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