The Power of Pricing, Pamphlets & Polarization with Taylor Welch | #Marketing - Ep. 19
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What's up, everybody? This is Russell. Welcome back to the podcast. Excited to be hanging out today with one of my newer friends, someone who really fascinates me. In fact, it's interesting. In my high-end, like, inner circle Atlas programs, everyone comes back to the meetings, and it's fascinating because they all start sharing information, ideas from this guy. And we had never actually met in person, and everyone's like, yeah, like, you know,

Everyone in my world of the high end also is in his high end programs and there's this weird crossover. And so finally like, I don't know, six or seven months ago, I told Eileen, I was like, Eileen, I need to meet Taylor Welch. I keep hearing about him. You guys talk about him. Everyone's dropping his ideas and my ideas in the groups. And so we had a chance to meet Taylor.

virtually for a little bit. And then at Funnel Hacking Live International, he had a chance to come out and speak. We had a chance to actually hang out for a little bit and a great time. And now we're doing a podcast because he's got some really cool ideas that I'm excited to share with you guys and excited to hang out. So Taylor, how are you doing today, man?

Doing great. That was a bold move, bro. Giving me 45 minutes when we had never met before. I was like, Russell is brave. I was like, I have to do a good job or else he's not going to be my friend anymore. Yeah, you're never coming back. That was your...

Exactly. No, it's fascinating. After we kept talking, I started going and started. And it's funny because Eileen told me later, she's like, yeah, Taylor said, but right now you're buying everything he's got. And I'm like, yeah, I'm funnel hacking everything he's doing. I want to understand like how your mind works and what your ideas are and stuff like that. And so it was a very fun rabbit hole to go down and have a chance to meet you and actually talk with you, which is, which is, you know, obviously it made a lot of fun. So I'm excited. It was so much fun.

Okay, so we got a million different directions we can go and we probably will go. But I want to start initially just because a lot of people in my world, I think a lot of people obviously know who you are, but some may not. How did you get into this whole world of marketing, consulting, all that kind of stuff? Yeah, fascinating story. So I was on staff at a church.

in Memphis, Tennessee. And I mean, most people don't go into the ministry to get rich and stuff. It's just a mission. But we were struggling so bad. My wife and I, we had just gotten married and I was 22 and the church was growing fast and it was awesome. But I started sort of feeling like

Um, maybe I wasn't like born for vocational ministry and, and then I had to figure out what to do with that. Cause you know, like your whole life you trained for one thing and then you, that thing and you're like, I have no skills. Like, I don't know what to do with anything. Like all I knew how to do is play music and like leave worship. So, um, I transitioned because of a friend of mine and to just volunteering at the church. We, we had a joke at the time where like they were going to promote you to volunteer. Cause

It was so many hours, 100 hours, 90 hours a week. And so I went into this real estate organization and I started learning real estate. It was my first like full-time non-ministry job. And because I was trained a little bit like you where it's like, man, we'll just work constantly. Yeah.

I just, I took off because I was this kid who was what I could work 80 hours a week. Didn't get tired. I just love to work. And so I grew there for a little bit. And then one day my wife bought a course online about how to get like salon clients from direct mail.

I was like, what is direct mail? How does that work? So I started going through this course. And then I think it was like an advert or something from John Carlton. Okay. And it's the copywriting master course thing. The original copywriters, yeah. Oh, gee, yeah. And I bought it.

And I just put it on a credit card and my wife was like, what are you doing? Like we can't even afford groceries. I was like, I can figure this out. Like I don't know what copywriting is. I think that copywriting was like protecting your songs with the US government. But I think this is a different kind of copywriting. It's spelled different. So it sounds very similar. It's like, how are you making millions of dollars copywriting with the government? I don't understand that. And so I started going through it and learning that everything we see online is written in a specific way. It's not just random.

And I started practicing with my wife's salon. So I was like, watch this. Let's buy a direct mail list on a discover credit card. So she's like losing her mind. She's like, we're going to go broke. I'm like, no, John Carlton said that you could write letters and send them and people will pay you money.

So we bought this list. I wrote this letter. And if we're being honest, I like more copied a letter. I didn't really write it. I didn't know how to do that at the time. And we sent it out in the mail. And the longest three days of my life went by after we sent these letters. Waiting. And then she – yeah, I was like, this didn't work. This is a scam.

Then she got a phone call. Then she got another one. Then she got another. She got like six clients from 50 letters that we sent out. And I was blown away. I was just completely obsessed at that point. You know when you just train on something and then it works? It just makes you obsessed with it. And then I bought, dude, everything. Todd Brown was buying his stuff. I hopped into –

Dan Kennedy's, which you own now, which is crazy. Like the DKIC, I got into that. And I just became, I turned to the same work ethic I had in ministry kind of on for learning this new skill set. And I was only at the real estate company for 13 months before I was making about three times what I was making in yearly salary.

from working weekends. And so I had a conversation with the CEO and I said, look, I'm going to go do this thing and transitioned out and started taking copywriting clients. And that lasted for eight months. And then we started Traffic and Funnels back in the day, which grew ridiculously fast. And then we started another one and then that was started in about...

Four or five years after that, we were like, you know, doing $3 million a month. And it kind of grew out of control. And we had a lot of issues from learning how to hire people because copywriting and management, nowhere near the same skill set.

So I had to learn all of those issues, but it was really organic. And it just came because I, I got really lucky to be born on the, like the cusp of like people like you and Frank Curran and people who were like presenting information. You couldn't find this stuff 50 years ago, 30 years ago. It was ridiculously hard to do. And so I think I got lucky in that I could go to Google, find, um,

Russell Brunson, you know, I read all of your books. They came later. A lot of your stuff and just learn from these people who had done it already and then started tweaking. So what is, I think what is, is maybe Picasso was like, you have to learn how you have to learn all the rules so you can break the rules. So I went through that, learned all the rules and then started experimenting. And here we are like 11 years later.

That's crazy. And what's cool about you, like the way your mind works, there's a lot of people get in this marketing world and they just like, they hear me talk about funnel hacking, like, I'm just going to copy everybody. It's like, no, it's like funnel hacking helps you understand, like you said, like the rules and how things work. And then like growth comes from like breaking the rules and figure out different ways and different angles and just thinking through things differently. And I think that's what most people don't get to. And that's why they never get to the next levels because they're not focusing on like mastering the marketing of the thing. They're just like trying to copy something to make money, you know?

And I think what's cool about your mind that I really enjoy looking at from the outside is just how you take in ideas and principles and morph them into something new that's like, you know. In fact, I want to lead with one of the more interesting ones that I think it's the first thing I funnel hacked buying from you kind of going through the process. But which again, it's taking a concept that was structured in a way and you broke it and changed it, right? So the revolving pricing method. This is one of the first things. I bought a $3...

what'd you call them? A pamphlet or a brochure? Pamphlet, like a pamphlet. We call them pamphlets. Free for shipping pamphlet. But will you talk about just that concept because it's taking this like something that a lot of people are doing this and you looked at it from a different angle and it changed the whole industry. In fact, this is the very first time

I started going deep is because like Brian and Brad came back to my inner circle and they're like, this is stuff Taylor's doing. And then Eileen's and never talking about this revolving pricing method. I'm like, what are you guys talking about? So I love you kind of explain a little about what that is, because it's just such a unique way to look at something that changes all the back end of your business after you do it.

Yeah, 100%. So this hit me when Traffic and Funnels was getting big. It was on like the high ticket model, which I think at the time was like you have something that's like eight weeks or 12 weeks or a 12-month mastermind. So people kind of had two different program tiers. They had one and they would ascend. So they would do an ascension model. But the thing that started stressing me out is every month I really kind of had to backfill the –

The number of clients we did the previous month just to keep the wheel going.

which to an extent is every business. But I wanted to figure out a way to break that. I wanted to figure out a way to like, I wanted just the passage of time just to be profitable for me. And I was like, I know that you can do this. You can think there's a way to think this through and design it differently. And then my wife actually one day bought a new car. And it sort of struck me that

You buy the vehicle, but then you are responsible for the premium cost of operating that vehicle. Like you wouldn't buy a brand new car and then call the dealership and be like, I'm out of gas. Send me a gas card. They'd be like,

What is wrong with you? Like you're responsible for the, the ongoing utilization of that vehicle. You look through nature and nature is the same way. Things that are unhealthy die and things that are healthy grow. And so it's like, I think we can split this apart into almost modeling what insurance companies and car companies and pretty much everything else uses to price good services and et cetera. And so, um,

We created a hybrid system. So when somebody comes in and I'm sure you guys are the same way, there's the bulk of the work on the company is usually in the first engagement, like the first three months, the first one month or six months. And so we charged more for that. So that's like the previous high ticket thing. And then we put a residual on the back end that is tied to the experience of

included in the products. So for us right now, Chamber is one of our masterminds and we started it really low. We just were doing like 15K to onboard and process you and get your data and get your team's data and pull you in. It's kind of like a doctor's office. You go to a doctor, you've got to pay for them to diagnose everything and look at it. But then the solution is a different thing. You've got to pay for that separately.

And so we ended up pioneering a model where people pay us to get in and get access to our tools, our models, our diagnostic tools. We have eight different things that we go through when a business owner joins in the first 30 days. And then from there, them utilizing that on an ongoing basis has a

be attached to that. And then I also wanted to do like no contracts. So we don't do any contracts either because I wanted the issues that come to a head with clientele to be brought to the surface immediately. So this, the moment that somebody churns, whether it's month three, month 11, month 15, I want to see that issue. And our data was really dirty with, with TF because people would have a 12 month thing. They would get bored with it in six months.

But they would never say anything because they had access for a year. So they would just kind of stick in. I wanted to pull that data back up further so we could optimize. So it's super risky to do this because you can have people come in and leave in two months or people come in and leave in three months. But what happens to a machine is like a garden. Like as soon as you see like a plant that's not looking so hot,

You like go outside. I was like, the plant doesn't look one plant is not like the others. That was like wilting. It doesn't look very good. You fix it immediately because the feedback is, is very up into the optics. And then there was a secondary benefit in that I realized six months in that I had no fixed burn anymore. All my burn was covered from just the membership fees.

And I think he's like, Brad, this Brad got all lit up about this. I remember him standing up in London at an event. It was, it was like the 30th of September into like the 1st of October. And the second day he came in and he stood up and he's like, look at this. And he's got his phone out and his stripe. And he's like, my whole burn for the month of October is covered. I was like, bro, that feels really good. Doesn't it? He's like, it's incredible because you don't have to sell anything this month to pay for a fixed cost structure. Yeah.

And so if you do it right, you end up building your client services around this monthly fee to ensure that people want to be engaged. And we just find it really easily. Our churn right now is like 7.5%. Average client retention is 18 months, which I think is going higher. The business is only two and a half years old. Still a really new business. What's the... And so what we're using is 15 grand up front. What's the monthly...

roll into 8 to 12 percent of the onboarding so we we've raised the prices since like once we tested it yeah so if you're going to do 30k onboarding then you know 2500 to 3500 a month interesting yeah huh what other industries have you guys helped implement that in besides just like what you're doing like some of your clients i'm curious other other interesting ways that people are using it

chiropractic it works well in chiropractic which for them they're just now getting to that point of like um you can pay a monthly fee and get like unlimited adjustments so you have to price it right or else you're just underwater you know somebody comes every day for an adjustment you're gonna lose you're gonna lose money um but yeah we have we have chiropractors who are using it obviously consulting is easy because you can you can build the tools and

We have a couple of gyms that are starting to use this. So like when you come in and sign up for the gym, it's like we're going to do these tests and, you know, we're going to basically help you set up a plan. But gyms are already on monthly. So the only thing that's different with gyms is you put an onboarding on the front of it. But most gyms are already doing it. So I think it's less of a revolutionary idea for all industries because most industries are already doing a lot of this.

It's super revolutionary for a consulting program to have both of the high ticket structure and the monthly recurring structure at the same time. That's where people are not doing it as much. So I'm curious because I actually tried after going through, I tried to pitch it on a thing and it was a little hard for me to pitch because I'm like, there's this thing up front, then there's this other thing. And for me, anyway, I'm curious how you pitch that either on the phone or an event or something like that. How do you structure that when you're actually explaining it? You know what I mean?

Yeah. At events, we typically comp the price of the event. So we discounted this kind of down. And then at events too, the only difference with the pitch is like at an event, we'll typically take the onboarding and break it into chunks.

So let's say it's, you know, 20K onboarding and $1,500 a month. So it'll be, let's say somebody paid $5K to come to the event. We'll comp that. And so that's discounted out of it. And then it's $5K for three months for the onboarding. But the recurring starts month two. So we have $5K, then $6,500, then $6,500, then

And then when people end up, sometimes they'll pause, like they'll leave for a second, but then they can come back in and they never have to pay their onboarding again because we already have their data. So there's no reason for us to re-onboard them and charge them. So we have a lot of people who will say, hey, I'm really busy right now. I can't come to any of the events. So I'm going to take a break. I'll come back. And then four months later, they'll come back in because it's like, it's $1,500 a month for this event.

Compare it to like 50, 60, 70K everywhere else. And so it almost creates this asset. Like there's an asset that I've paid for. I already have my onboarding covered in this community. So it's super easy for people to come back in. That helps retention too because reactivation just plays against your turn. Yeah. You know? Interesting. Interesting.

They make it fast, simple, and super effective.

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I remember back when I was in college, I was first getting this game. There was a guy that had a membership site. I still remember it was $97 a month or $97 to join. And it was 20 bucks a month. And so I remember I went and I saved my money because a hundred bucks is a lot of money for me back then. I paid the 97 world, the $20 a month. And I've kept, I stayed on the membership for like four years because I knew if I canceled and I wanted to come back, I had to pay the 97 again. You know what I mean? It's like, it kept me for, it kept me so long. And it was just interesting. Like,

the psychology behind how it shifted things. But it sounds like you just keep them, you let them pause. Anyway, so when someone leaves... We let them pause just because I'm like, I feel like

97 to like 30 grand is a big, it's unfortunately a big jump. So something like, okay, well if you need to take a break, like you're having a baby or something, like just take a break. Call your baby and come back. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. People are more likely to come back. A lot of times in a coaching program, if you're in there for three months, it's not successful. You're leaving, you're not coming back versus what you've got now. Now it's like,

They've already prepaid for the first part. Like they still feel a part of it. And they, yeah, it's really cool. Cause they lose, they lose all the curriculum, you know, like in, in older, the older models is if you, if you paid, you know, I think our first high ticket program was a thing called client kit back in the day and client kit. We ended up getting into like 12 K and it was 12 K for eight weeks. And, um,

If you left, you sought access to all the material because you paid $12K for it. But with this, it's like it's different because you're not really just paying for the curriculum. You're paying for the onboarding, the audits. You're paying for us to look at someone's business. Like you're paying a lot to get us to like peel back the layers. And then the curriculum, which there's right now there's 1,100 hours of curriculum. So nobody's going through 1,100 hours. It's way too much.

It's just exhausting. So we actually go on a QBR system, which is part of the revolving price method, which is every quarter we're auditing somebody again and then pointing them in different directions based on what their business needs, which keeps the wheel going. And then if somebody is like, I need to take a break for a couple of months, they don't get access to all of the curriculum because they didn't pay for that. That's not just part of being in the community. And so some people even are like, some people get upset with that. They're like,

How – I paid $30,000. How am I not going to have this? So you can have it for $1,500 a month. It's yours. It's a membership. Like you can't – Netflix, you can't join Netflix and cancel and be like, where are all my movies? You're like, what? I haven't paid in the last three months. It doesn't work that way. That's cool. So it's working really well. We like it. That's cool. Okay. So I want to –

I'm going to ask you a question because I want people to see this and learn to go deeper on this topic. So the brochure for somebody to go and buy to learn more of the revolving pricing method, do you know the link or should I put it in the show notes or where can they go to go see this funnel? And then we'll talk about that funnel next.

If you go to wealthyconsultant.com and then go to products, the link is right on the page. So it's wealthyconsultant.com slash revolve, but it's also on the site. Cool. And it's $3. Yeah. Nothing. So it's $3. Okay. So now I want to talk about that now. So before we started recording, you started telling me, I'm like, stop, I want to talk about this later. So this is not a free book funnel. This is like...

You said it's more like a brochure and you talked about this concept though. Explain in your, uh, to us like this concept of brochures, how you're using them. Like I want to understand the whole psychology behind it all. It's really cool. Okay, cool. We lucked into this and then I started studying it. And when I started studying, I was like, Oh my gosh,

bro, this is going to change the world. So we call them pamphlets because it's not a full book. It's like revolving price. I think it's 50 pages. And then we have five or six others. They're 40 to 80 pages each. So it's not a full length book, which is why it's cheaper. But we're one of my marketing guys was like, we need to do a course on like how to scale your business with pamphlets. And I said, that sounds great. Let's do it. So we started writing the copy and I started researching it. I was like, bro, you know, what's crazy is,

And pamphlets were the like the way that you got messages out in like the 1700s. We didn't write books. Their books were way smaller. And the book industry actually started changing what they would put in the books, the bookstores, because if they were going to go through the labor of putting it on a shelf, they wanted it to be a full length book that they could charge, you know, twenty dollars, twelve dollars.

But like the American Revolution, like it's all pamphlets, these newsletter things. They're like, you know, 20 to 30 pages at a time, just chunks of material that are sent out on different topics. And as somebody who's a book hoarder of the old times, like I literally have

thousands and thousands of pamphlets from the early 1900s, late 1800s on all my favorite topics. And you're a hundred percent right. They're really cool. They're small. They're usually very topic based where it's like, I want to learn this one cool thing versus the book. It's got like 12 chapters. It's like, it's like a hardcore chapter on one thing. And, um, and that's like both like from the gospel standpoint, people are using them as tracks to get people in, but then also on the business side. And so, um, yes, I can confirm that's true because I collect them as well. Yeah.

That is epic. I didn't even think to ask you. I should have asked you. I was like, do you have pamphlets in your library? I got some. They're so fun. It's almost like when you look at history, you see what civilizations and cultures get used to. And then technology will advance and economics is a piece of technology. So we have to look at economics as a technology in and of itself, like the financial systems of the world.

And a lot of cool stuff that we used to do, we don't do anymore because it wasn't beneficial to the profit centers. And so I started writing this page and I was like, dude, Benjamin Franklin used to write pamphlets. And he lived like, what, 300 years ago. So we're going to basically position this as like a lost 300-year-old technology company.

for getting messages into the world and scaling movements. So how do you build a movement? Look at the American Revolution. They were all pamphlets. That's what built the movement of the United States, pamphlets. And that's being forgotten because now when people think about publishing information, they think about writing a book. But back then they didn't. It was more rare. They would just write a theme, put it in a pamphlet,

And so that's going to be our big idea for it is re bringing back this forgotten technology of disseminating information and how to create a movement with a pamphlet. So was the revolving pricing method without the first pamphlet technically you guys, you did it. Yeah. You have more of them right now. Is that still the core one you're using?

We have a lot of them. We have a revolving price. We have offer design toolkit. We have automated upgrades, which is really cool. That's our biggest pamphlet. It's like 80 pages. And I'll send it to you because it's awesome. It's our CS director who's a day data analyst. And so he, he has figured out in the last year and a half how to basically take a, a community and run data analytics through it. And so we like know that,

How many times people log in? How many times they send messages on platform? How many times they come to an event? And there's a correlation between the most fascinating piece of this is the number one data that contributes to retention is messages sent on platform.

That's it, which makes sense if you think about it because it's community, it's engagement, it's relationship, it's all of these things. And so if we can get somebody to start sending messages and connecting with people inside of our ecosystem, they stay way longer than if we can just get people to events.

So that book goes through all of the five human emotions that we program into onboarding and the four different styles of connection that we have to make with clients so that they stay longer and get what they want. And it's just a bunch of data. He's like a big nerd. So it's super cool. But that's $3 too. And then we have a pamphlet coming out in March called Quantum Growth Trackers.

which is about a value design. So everyone is focused right now on how do I 10X? How do I scale to the moon? But then you see a lot of people who can't do it, but they're really smart. They're brilliant, but they can't get themselves to do what they need to do. And I started studying values. And what I realized is that self-sabotage is the brain trying to protect itself from

from a value that if you scale a business, that's one value. And then if you're a bad parent, if scaling a business means you're a bad parent, that's a conflicting value. And these values just fight to the point where you get so unhappy and so unmotivated. And so it's got a lot of neurochemistry in it as well around like, dude, what happens to a person when they have no norepinephrine, no serotonin, and no dopamine? That person just...

falls asleep. Like they can't do anything. And so people get hurrah and they get all excited. But if they don't find the values, no discipline will help a person self-cannibalize or self-harm. You know, you can't do it. Like you can't lay down in front of a train coming on train tracks. Your body will force you to get up off of that out of self-preservation. And if we view something that we've set as a goal as a train running at our head,

We will turn it off. And then we're like, what's wrong with me? Why can't I scale anything? It's like it has nothing to do with your skill. It has everything to do with two values that are fighting each other. And so that's going to be 65 pages. When's that one coming out? I want to read that one. End of this month. I'll just send it this year. Are you doing this all digital or are you doing physical or both? They're all digital. No physical.

No, but maybe we should. After hearing you talk about collecting the pamphlets, maybe we should do physical ones. I'm changing my mind on that. Even if you just like three bucks for digital or five bucks for the physical or something like just to, you know. Yeah. We still do. People love the newsletter too. Do you send the success secrets? Do you send in a physical newsletter or just digital? No, the Dan Kennedy business, we still have a physical print newsletter we do monthly. And then the secrets of success is all digital. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we do. We get a lot of people who, a couple thousand people who still get the physical newsletter and they kind of love it. It's just a different, it's a different thing. I'll get pictures of people who have it like on their kitchen table and coffee, you know, but I think the pamphlets, you've changed, you've changed my psychology. I think I'm going to do that. I think it's cool. I still like when we first launched, I mean, this is pre-ClickFunnels, my very first, you

free plus shipping book we put together i was like i want something that sits on someone's desk so every day when they're the computer they see me so our first physical book we did was called 108 split test and just split test results i mean that's the kind of book you leave on your desk to always like flip through and like as you're making stuff and i had people years later like i i see pictures of them like talking and you see it still sitting on their desk you know and i think the pamphlets is the same thing digital you forget about but if it's physical it's like

they're just stacking them up and they're keep seeing you and every day I want them reminded like oh Russell oh Russell you know and so yeah and then in a hundred years it's still it's like me should have I'm uneven yeah

Bro, like that's the thing. I'm like, man, you know, there's no physical copies of this stuff. So I'm screwed. So we need to get that out into the world. Are you reviewing this entry? Like there's this backend thing you want to, you want to sell. And so you're creating a pamphlet on the front end. That's going to create desire for that thing. Is that how everything is being, is being created?

Yeah, I think about it like an automobile. I was talking with Garrett White about this like a year and a half, maybe two years ago. With this dude, seeing him speak at your event, I was like, bro, this is a full-grown grizzly bear in the wilds. Dude is just a force. But...

It's like a automobile. So you have your vehicle that is your core premium. Like it's, it's everything that you want for people. It will take someone anywhere they want to go, which is quite difficult to, to sell mass market. Cause like not everyone's going to buy a Ferrari. There's not enough of them and it just won't work. But then you take pieces of this vehicle pieces, parts, and you can offer this to the market. So if they don't need, like if somebody just needs to repair a,

a car they can get on and they can buy the part that they need and do it themselves. But there's a lot of risk and we're very upfront about this. If you want to like go into your like Tesla and just buy a piece and get under there, there's a lot of risks to that. Like, first of all, you could blow up.

You could also break the car. Like you don't know what you're doing. And if you weren't like licensed and certified and trained on how to do it, there's risk involved. And so it's the same concept. Like revolving price is my method of pricing psychology.

How do we build the psychology of pricing for an entire business and a little bit of client services? Then offer design toolkit is my philosophy on how to build something that people are like they need, but now they don't just need it, they want it. So aligning need and want together. Then quantum growth track is when people know that they're not moving fast enough and it has something to do with their brain.

But all of these pieces by themselves only fix like that one thing. And there's risk in the improper application of that thing, just like fixing a vehicle. So what people will do is this has happened last week. Somebody came in, brand new client. I think they're like two weeks old.

They bought Revolving Price like three months ago. They started implementing it, but they missed the piece. So the way that the pricing was set up on the back, it wasn't correct. And so they sort of have it, but they sort of don't. And they're like, I should have just hopped in to like implement it. And like that, that's the point. Like you can buy the piece online, but unless you have the mechanic who can actually install it. So that's like, he read that it's in the first chapter of every pamphlet. It's just like, look,

This is awesome. This will work. It'll do what it's designed to do. But if you aren't trained on how to actually build it, have a conversation with us. And we'll tell you. If you don't need us, we'll just be like, do it on your own. And if you do, we'll tell you. Because we have a pretty limited cap on our main crew because I don't really want 5,000 clients again. And maybe that's like my values that I need to fix. Like maybe you could depro.

But when we had that many clients, it was so exhausting. So now I have the cap to where it's like I can only really work with like 200 people at a time. So there's like a legit waiting list. So people get on the call. Maybe we can't help them, but they have to wait a little bit. And that's kind of a different piece of revolving price too is like pricing psychology. People always want what they can't have right now.

And you have to play with this line because if they want it but can never have it, it will hurt your business. But I like the waiting list concept in the middle, and that's in the very beginning of the book. So we get a lot of calls that people are just like, I want to make sure I'm implementing this right. And then we're like, bro, your whole business is screwed. Don't even worry about revolving price. Like you have nothing. And then sometimes they'll become clients, sometimes they don't. But it's fascinating how fast these pamphlets move. And they're just liquidating at 100%, 150%.

for a lot of different reasons. I think it's the price, like $3 is instinct buy. You don't really have to think about it, but it also, it's so specific that people don't spend a lot of time thinking about whether they need it or not. They just kind of know, because we're not trying to sell nine things at once. Do you need help with your brain? One thing, like they know they're self-qualifying quickly. And then with the way the ad platforms work, they're only like, you know, then looking for people that are like that, you know?

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- So in the funnel, someone buys that for three bucks. Is that it or do you have upsells and downsells? Or is it from there to a phone call? What's that part of the business look like? - We do, we have upsells. I think you bought them all. - Sure I did. - When you went through it. It was like, yeah, Russell just brought nine things. There's a one click, we're using ClickFunnels for it. So there's a one click on it. I think that that is a full length book. And I think it's $10. So it goes from three to 10.

Then the first upsell is $60 to $65. And then the second upsell is $297. That's revolving price. And they all float in that same type of like plus or minus $10. They float around there. I think revolving price, the last time I checked, which was probably January, I need new data. But the CPA on it was in the mid-30s and the AOV on it was low 40s.

So people will buy stuff that's in the campaign, that's in the funnel. Once they buy though, we don't have any funnels that are hitting them, which is because I'm just using salespeople. We just call them and then they get put into, this is really cool. We're pioneering a little bit of AI with our SDR conversations. So I've been training in LLM. TAF, we have like 700,000 phone calls per,

from that business. So I have so much data on like how our market sounds. So we're training this language model on how to just like text people. And we're testing it really slowly. Like every week, we're finally to the point where we'll put 100 people in once a week, which is like nothing.

and we put 100 people in last Friday and have four booked calls Sunday afternoon. And so that's going to be crazy when as soon as somebody buys something, they're getting a text from us, and then that LLM is selling them other stuff and qualifying them and putting it on an A's calendar. So that's going to be a big piece of what we do with the pamphlets so we can scale. You know what's funny? I think I must get that segment because I did get a text from you last week

And I was like, you did a little while. That's interesting. Yeah. So probably sell a dude. Probably just play with it. That's so cool. Be like, I don't know how I feel about business. It'll be like, interesting. I totally get where you're coming from. Let's talk about that. Yeah.

Okay, next we're talking about, we talked about this before we started recording, but I think it'd be fascinating for people, and even I want to dig in a little more. So in last year, you shifted your YouTube strategy. It's blowing up right now, and as I watched it, what I noticed, I was like, you're not just talking about business. You're talking about business and your faith

And I want to know about what you're doing, the thought process behind it, what kicked it off and any ideas for people who are struggling. Like we, our YouTube has been, been doing well, but not great. Like it's kind of struggling. And, and I'm wondering if this is my, my problem and you're going to solve it all right now for me. So.

Yeah. So here's the story. We were, we get a YouTube for about three years. In three years, we got to like 10,000 subscribers. So it was brutal. It was just a slog trying to figure out what people relate to and what they don't. Last February, one of my video guys was like, what would you talk about if you were just hanging out with a friends? And I was like, well, what friends? Like, have we got to qualify? I mean, it's like just, just somebody from like, you know, business.

And so he was like, we won't release it. I just want to I want to capture something from you that's like more real. And we can go for 30 minutes to an hour and a half. And so he hit record. And I just started talking about like what's really important to me, which is the same as you. Like our faith is going to come up in a conversation. And so I did. And I started talking about God and

and how I think poverty is not the goal. And God has a plan for how to equip people with resources and being a good steward. And then the dude releases it publicly. Didn't tell you? You didn't know what was happening? I didn't know. Yeah. But he had been trying to get me to talk about spiritual things for a while, at least a year. So I called him, and I was like, dude, I feel a little betrayed. You told me that we were just going to talk like...

What could have possessed you thinking like this was maybe a mistake or something? And he said, have you looked at the comments? I said, no, I haven't looked at the comments. And I started getting messages about this video, which is how I found out that it was released. I started getting messages, bro, that that episode about God was incredible. I was like, what episode about God?

I was so frustrated. And I saw, dude, like the realest comments on that video. People who were just like, I didn't even know that, you know, you talked about this stuff, but this is exactly where I've been. And so I just was like, we'll try this for a couple of months and we'll see what happens. Because I was sort of under the...

The idea that I just didn't want to talk about something that was that important to me to enrich myself. Like I didn't want to talk about my faith just to build a platform, you know? And so we just went with it for three months and I was blown away by how much people needed the both ends. Like it was, it was almost like the intersection between business and God was grabbing people that didn't realize that the two worlds could be together at the same time.

And so we just kept going with it. And we didn't pioneer like what was happening until afterwards, like a year after. In fact, I sat down last month for the first time to try to codify it. Like what are the playbooks? How does it work? And what I found is any of our clients who have an intersection always do better than the clients who take content to the market that are singular.

I don't know why, but I think that it has to do with there's a layering of like lenses. So like how Russell talks about business, bro, it's already coming from your faith.

But the market doesn't always make that connection. And then when they do make the connection, it's like – look at the huge podcasts. And most of them you'll see they're interdisciplinary. They talk about multiple things and connect them in the middle. I was just listening to – you know Cal Newport? Yeah. Yeah.

deep work and he's got this thing called deep questions. He's like super interdisciplinary and then dispensa and then Tony. And I was like, bro, I think that this is a secret because when somebody just comes talking about business or when somebody just comes talking about like physical health, there's, there's always a gap in the market that is preventing people from seeing themselves in your story. But when we layered them together, so now we have three buckets, God, business and money.

And those three things. So you usually have, from our study, you have a big macro principle type of category. So for us, they'll be like God. Every time we talk about God, we're talking about it from a big principle standpoint. Spirituality would be like a big one. And then you have something in the middle that is like mass market. You only really have three mass markets. You've got

health, wealth, and relationship. And so you get one of those three that's kind of like mass market. And then the third one is the rapid changing to keep you really fresh. So it's where the market changes really quick. It's like AI, business changes really quick.

But these buckets are interchangeable. So you have some people who can talk about business. Like for me, business is on like the right end of the spectrum. Whenever I talk about business, I'm talking about something that happened like right now. So I'm never talking about like principles. I'm talking about like this is an example that just happened and it's very quick just for relevance purposes. But then you have some people that talk about business, that business is the macro principle thing. And they're –

like really relevant thing to the right is like crypto, you know, because that changes all the time. So the categories are more of a layering. Every time I talk about God, I'm at this level. Every time I talk about business, I'm at the bottom level. And every time I talk about money, I'm in the middle, which is like the mass market. And YouTube is super, super touchy because people come to expect the same thing the same way every time. So we're building it like a TV show.

So you all see like event recordings on YouTube from, from us. I know Myron crushes that with, with events, but he does a lot of live streams. You don't see like behind the scenes. You don't see, you only see one thing. And it's because like when people get, imagine if you're like watching Yellowstone or something. And then episode two, season two is, is like behind the scenes. People would be so confused. Like,

I want to watch the episode. So they get into these episodic rhythms. And as long as you don't disturb that episodic rotation, they'll just keep coming back and coming back. And we do long form. This is really long form. So people will watch it on like their TVs, the theaters and watch it there.

Um, but that was a big, that was hard for me because I wanted to do like one time it's like this, it's like a podcast. And then one is a behind the scenes, you know, it's like me on a trip. And then one is like a, an event recording and our video guys were like, no, we studied this. This is not going to work because people will get so confused and overwhelmed. They never know what they're going to get. And so when we changed that plus the layering, it started blowing up and it's like, you know, 30,000 subscribers a month, uh,

30 to 40 we haven't spent any ads on it and it's just weird like as a marketer like a paid marketer i'm like what it doesn't make sense i was like it doesn't compute like yeah and so it's it's kind of fascinating once you get it yeah when you're preparing for those you do a lot of prep ahead of time or more like you start the camera you know kind of the direction you're going how do you start i know the direction i'm going and i have some bullet points

And if I'm talking about something I'm not really comfortable with, I have more notes because I haven't got it. But if it's like, you know, we're going to have an episode on like what God thinks about money. I don't have any notes because I'm just like –

I know what God says about money and how it works. And I have a guy in the room too, that this is another interesting piece. It's the producer, which we just sort of accidentally did. Like it was not me talking to a camera. He's the producer. And so it's gonna be really interesting even with, with you because there's so much in our heads all the time that like, if we just go and just start talking, like,

It's making a lot of sense, but it's over the head of like most of your audience. Like they're not actually at Russell Brunson level. They're not fully understanding, especially if you're in flow. And so what the producer does is he just slows us down.

And this would be like, what is that? Can you explain that for people? Like, what does that mean? Like, what is, when you say a funnel, what are you even talking about? What's the CPA? Whatever it is. And that makes the episodes long. But dude, our average view duration went from like two and a half minutes to like channel wide, it's like 35 minutes an episode, which is really, really, really high. We're in the top, I think we're in the top 2%

of YouTube channels in the world based on you duration just crazy it's like 1400 or 1.4 million hours a month

And if you were just watching two-hour videos – I got a comment a couple weeks ago. They were like, I've binged all of your YouTube episodes in the last week. I'm like, dude, how? Like, two XT times. Did you get fired? Like, that's crazy. But, dude, they're just – to get into this, like, it's the episode, then that goes to the next episode. They just get really comfortable, like, watching a TV series.

And that's how we binge. Like people will binge Game of Thrones in a weekend, which is ridiculous. Like you just literally sit on your couch the whole weekend and watch Game of Thrones. They're doing that on YouTube. Yeah. That's so cool. Man, this has been fun. So I got three big takeaways for me and hopefully for everyone from the episode. Like revolving pricing method, looking at pricing structure. Number two, removing the pamphlets.

topic-based, very simple front ends to bring people into the world. And number three, looking at YouTube through a different lens of like, how do you find the different modalities or different, different things and layer them to, and I'm sure with that too, it's interesting. Like we were kind of talking about this before, but it's like,

When you're doing that in YouTube, there's like, there's a section of your audience now who loves you more because it's like you're talking about and there's a section who probably doesn't like you, but either way, they're both commenting more, which then feeds the algorithm and everything else starts happening versus when you're just talking about a business principle, for example, and it's like, yeah, it's really good. No one's commenting, but no one's excited. Like the, like weaving in the second thing either brings in controversy, positive or negative, but either way, it's good for the algorithm, right? Which makes it good. And then you have like these haters, right?

They're on your videos. And then you've got your fans that are arguing with the haters. And dude, there's chains of like 200 comments of just a threat. And it's like my crew fighting with some new person. Yes. It's weird. You like almost learn to talk about the things you're afraid to talk about because other people are afraid of it too. And then they just like resonate with it. Hardcore. Yeah. Yeah.

That's really cool. Okay. Well, my next YouTube video, I'm going to spend some time and I'm going to bring in a second thing and see if I can, if I can have similar results, man, I'm excited to actually try that out. It'll be, it'll be fun. Well, awesome, man. Okay.

Dude, this is really fun. I appreciate you jumping on. So for those people, I think the first thing everyone should do is go get the Revolving Pricing pamphlet because they're going to first off get that, but they're also going to see the pamphlet funnel. And number two, then they should all go subscribe to your YouTube channel. Is the YouTube channel just Taylor Welch? Is there a name on it? It's youtube.com slash taylorawelch. And the TWC book, we do have a link for you. It's wealthyconsultant.com slash Russell. Yes. So there you go.

Just a little thing. So that comp slash Russell put in the show notes down below as well. But that's awesome. Yeah. So they have a chance to go through that process and see, I think from a couple of things, number one, like learning the model better is really cool. But number two, I think seeing your, your, your pamphlet funnels are really unique. It's funny. Cause like, I mean, you know, this in the consultant world, but a lot of people come to my world and they're like, I want to launch a book funnel. And then they spend two years trying to write a book.

You know, or they have AI write a book. It's like this is such a more powerful, simple way to do something. And it's more topic based. So it's easier for someone to say, yes, I want that or no versus let me explain why you need these 19 chapters of whatever. It's less overwhelming for you and the audience. It's less overwhelming on both sides. Yeah. So fascinating. I'm going to go through all my old pamphlets now and.

Yeah, it's going to be awesome. Let's go. Well, thanks, Matt. I appreciate you. You're awesome. Anything else for my people where they should go to connect with you besides YouTube and the funnel?

That's it. Thanks for being you, man. I look up to you. So a lot of people do. Well, thank you, man. It was really fun at FHL to sit there and, you know, for those who know off camera before you got on stage, we sat and talked about religion stuff. And it was cool because you were asking about my beliefs that I asked about yours. And it was kind of fun to, to the first time hanging out. That's what we talked about. So I think it's really cool, man. I appreciate it. It's fun. So love what you're doing. And thanks for hanging out, dude. I appreciate it. Cool, man.