Unlocking Steve J Larsen’s "Dramatic Demonstrations" Event
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What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. So excited to have you guys here today. I got a really cool guest I brought into the studio, to the office here at ClickFunnels HQ. Someone's been with me for a long time, Steve Larson. Used to be Steven Larson, then went to Steve Larson, but...

And then he put a J in the middle, so Steve J. Larson. But one of my favorite people in this world and I'm excited about is we're working on a really cool project about dramatic demonstrations, writing a book about dramatic demonstrations. So I thought for the podcast, let's have him here and we'll talk about dramatic demonstrations, what they are. But what's cool is during the interview, we did some really cool things. Like we talked about some old dead people like P.T. Barnum, like stuff he did. I talked about Farmer Burns, some old things he was doing to market back in the day.

but then we went very specific on like campaigns that we've actually both run both, uh, like dramatic demonstrations to launch YouTube videos, dramatic demonstrations, launch books, dramatic demonstration, launch courses. Like, so if you have anything you're selling, uh, there's going to be some really cool ideas for you. Like, here's how you can use the dramatic demonstrations, get more noise, more attention. Um,

I shared a strategy that I've never shared anywhere except for at my inner circle group. So people pay 50 grand a year. They know about this. Nobody else. I wasn't going to share it, but I think we're like 40 or 50 minutes in. I just dropped it. And then, yeah, so now you guys have that as long as you make it through the podcast interview, which would be really cool. So with that said, I hope you guys enjoy this episode of the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. My name is Russell Brunson, and I'm what you call a serial entrepreneur.

but with a twist. You see, 50% of my time, I'm the CEO of ClickFunnels, helping over 100,000 brands to grow their companies with funnels. And the other 50% of my time, I'm actually in the trenches using ClickFunnels to grow the startups I believe in. During this podcast, I'll take you behind the scenes and show you how we are bootstrapping ClickFunnels and my other businesses from startup to nine figures and beyond. Welcome to the show.

What's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Today I'm with a special guest, and this is probably also going to go on his podcast. So this is a dual podcast. His name is Steve J. Larson. Steve, how are you today? Excited to be here. I'm excited to have you here, man. This is like when we first moved into this building, you were part of it. You were helping me knock down walls and build the whole thing, and we sat in here for...

all day and all night for years. Years. Long time. Many hours. So it was awesome having you back. And do you want to talk real quick? So people listening to mine, mine's the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Come subscribe to my channel if you're not here. For your podcast, where do people subscribe to get onto yours? Yeah, just stevejlarson.com and talk all things business and life. Cool. So I'm excited for this one because we have an event coming up really soon called Dramatic Demonstrations, which is something me and you've been geeking out about for the last two or three years.

And so I thought it'd be fun just to kind of brainstorm, talk about dramatic demonstrations and get people excited about what they are and what they're not. Do we have a link right now where they could register? I know we're doing a pre-event for people who want to come watch it ahead of time. Do we have a link for that? Yeah, yeah. Dramaticdemonstrations.com. Oh, what a great domain. How did we know?

So, and we're doing a three, like a three hour pre-event, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's like a, like a preview. Like here's what it's about. Yeah. So you can go register that for free, which you should. Um, and then come onto the live event if you guys want to come hang out with us. So that's kind of the longterm. Anyway, in the short term of the next hour. So we're going to talk about dramatic demonstrations. So, um, I'm trying to get the chicken egg. When did we first start talking about this? Do you remember? Yeah. I remember it was like 2019. The world was about to shut down and I was doing like a nerd out sesh on the whiteboard and I was like, Oh,

You know, I wonder if there's any weird patterns on how PT Barnum did these launches, you know, how he used marketing. And as I started listing out all these big famous stories, it's like, oh my gosh, he has like a launch model every time he launched anything. And whether or not it was a product that no one had ever heard of, or there's a product that everyone knew of and he was trying to out position somebody else.

And I remember I was dropping something off at your house. I don't know if you remember this, but we were getting ready for FHL 2020 and I'm walking out. I was like, hey man, you know that look? You and I have that look. It's a crazy look. Yeah, it's a crazy marking look. Like I got to brain dump this to somebody who understands it. And I remember just vomited on you for like an hour and a half.

And FHL happened. And then it was like six months later. He was like, that was cool. We should do something. That's kind of where it came from. So cool. I remember because for me, I was reading a Dan Kennedy book. And in one of the chapters, he said the phrase about, he said that phrase, dramatic demonstrations. I was like, oh, I'm like, that's what this is. Like it's,

It's not like, you know, people say, do a product demo, do whatever. It's like, no, no, no, it needed to be bigger. And I heard that phrase from Dan Kennedy. I think that's when I bought the domain name. I'm like, I need to buy this. And then we start talking. I was like, this is the thing we should talk about, dramatic demonstrations. And by the way, those who are watching the video version, in my hand, I've got a little mini P.T. Barnum. He's here with us today. This is actually Hallmark made these P.T. Barnum dolls back in 1979. So this doll is older than I am.

So this PT, so, you know, in memory of PT Barnum and all the greats we've been talking about, um, he's here with us today. So that's the, the weird little dude who's sitting here on stage if you're wondering who he is. So I'm just going to start buying a bunch of those and like stack them on your car, a little voodoo dog. PT Barnum everywhere. So I think this is fun because, um, I think both you and I, maybe it's because we hung out for so long for so many years. Like we both geek out on, um,

on people and figures from the past and marketing from the past. Right. For me, it really started because of Dan Kennedy. You know, I got in his world, I was doing internet marketing and he was talking about fax machines. And first I was like, what does this have to do with, with me? And then later I realized what, you know, how I could apply it to my business. And so for me, I started geeking out, looking at old people's stuff, just like you did. And then you've gone kind of the same route. So I don't know where that all came from, but, um,

Was PT Bar the first one you kind of studied when you were looking deeper than other people as well? No, actually, it was because of you. I was doing an event early 2019. And it's actually when you keynoted at. Okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, 600 people, right? And I remember after the fact, you said to me, you sent me a message and you go, have you ever studied Claude Hopkins? Yeah.

I was like, no, I don't know who that is. And he goes, you said, yeah, you're like, Claude Hopkins is like the original scheme man or offer guy. They used to call him, you know, you told me, right. They used to call him scheme men. But they're cool. Yeah. Still called schemes have got such a negative connotation about, they used to call people scheme men. And that was the person who created the offer and the company was a scheme man. Yeah. Such a cool name. And that's like a weird thing, but like back then a totally different meaning. And then that's when I started just kind of like peeling back the layers of the onion. And I was like,

this is awesome. And then I got into Albert Lasker and just all these, all these different people. And then that's when Barnum came up. It's like, who's this guy? And then there was like, he's the most prolific of them all. He was like at 10 X, the amount of volume and content compared to all the others. And so it was just fun to go deep. What's interesting is, uh, as you know, the very first, um, time we spoke at funnel hiking about dramatic demonstrations, we talked about PT Barnum. And then I think you had the idea of reasoning. We should get PT Barnum, but to comic club award. So during the event, like the,

the, the screen opens and they bring out a big old statue or a big, a cutout of VG Barnum and give an award. But what's interesting is he actually was the second, you knew this, I mean, he's the second millionaire in us history, right? Yeah. Second millionaire in America. Who was the first one? He was a drug dealer actually, which I think is kind of funny.

So see, yeah, so drugs or yeah, or entertainment. But for me, I think the first one, so when I got in this business, Matt Fury was the first people I studied. He was, he's not doing a lot of stuff nowadays. A lot of people don't know who he is, but he was an amazing marketer. I mean, he was in the wrestling space initially. So I started buying his wrestling courses while I was wrestling, not knowing anything about business or anything. And he had this course that came out. It was the Farmer Burns course.

course it was this old guy from 1919 who was a who was this uh wrestling coach and stuff remember that guy right yeah yeah it was like i spent like it was like 50 for this book and i'm in high school kids i'm like saving up money to buy this farmer burns wrestling course in the 1900s because he talked about the old guys how they were way tougher this nowadays

And I remember on the sales letter we sell in the course, Matt Fury told this story and you see to my gym. I have a pitch. I found an actual picture on eBay. So what Farmer Burns is doing, this is a perfect example of a dramatic demonstration. So he was trying to sell his wrestling course. So he would go

to city fairs all across the country, Nebraska, Iowa, whatever. And he'd go to these city fairs and he would set up a hangman's noose. He'd wrap an entire thing around his neck and then they would pull the floor and floor drop and they'd do like the six inch or six foot drop, which normally break, like that's how people die. People think that strangling, you die from being strangled. You just, the drop and it breaks your neck and that's how you die and you're laying there hung. So they would do that. He would drop

And his neck was so thick. He'd sit there and he'd whistle Yankee Doodle Dandy while the crowd went crazy around him. And then he'd sell the wrestling course. And he went from city to city to city. And that's how he became Farmer Burns. It was this crazy dramatic demonstration, right? And it's like, because back then they didn't have TV or internet or anything. It's like, we have to do something amazing to get attention. So that's what these guys were doing. And nowadays people are so lazy that they just put up a Facebook ad and a funnel and hope for the best, right? I think that's what we're trying to inspire people. It's like, no, do amazing things.

um to get people's attention and i'd love for you to talk about some of i know there's so many cool pg vardem stories but any of them that you can share that just gets people wheels in their head spinning like how people are doing then and then maybe we can dive into nowadays like what what we're doing yeah totally you know the one that immediately comes to mind is actually the jenny lynn story i love the story there's whole books on this um jenny lynn was basically america's first female rock star and uh but she was really a nobody in america so the story goes that

you know, PT Barnum is a little bit later in his career and he had this reputation with the public of being a hoaxman. And so in efforts to be seen more professionally, he's like, I'm going to go work with someone who's like big and famous, more classy, more classy. That's like the whole motivation he had for it was to just change how the public saw him. So he goes and he's like,

He's like, oh, I love Jenny Lynn, famous opera singer in America. And what if I started partnering with her? And I'm going to have her come to America. I'll sell out her shows. She'll sing her opera, you know, and she'll be a business partner of mine. And so he's psyched about it, goes into a little bit of debt to bring her to America, you know, across the ship. And as he's like stoked about it, the story goes that he's walking down the street and he's like, you know, woohoo, I'm bringing her.

I'm bringing Jenny Lynn to America. Jenny Lynn's coming to America. And he's not really getting the reaction he wants. And he's saying it to people as he walks down the street, a doorman goes to open the door and he's like, who's Jenny Lynn. And it's at that moment that he realizes, Oh my gosh, I'm bringing a nobody. Like no one knows who this lady is. I he's a centric, you know, he found out who he's, he's obviously wealthy. So he has the resources to kind of learn outside of America at that point and no internet, you know? And so he is, uh,

Oh my gosh, I have to go figure out how to basically get a no one famous. And the reason I love this story is because entrepreneurs, they, as they go create a brand new offer for behind the scenes, you know, it's kind of like Jenny Lynn. No one knows who she is. No one knows that the entrepreneurs made this offer and PT Barnum made her into us into a somebody as she's on the ship. And so he,

He first gets all these reporters to just create story about her in the news. And the challenge was that no one had ever really seen her before because there's no internet. And so these artists are like practicing pictures of her and they're trying to guess what no one ever heard her sing either. And, you know, so they start like, hey, here's what she's like, her personality, her dislikes. And so he starts creating this character that no one's ever met, but just the idea of it in people's brains is,

But then he goes out and he's starting to have like, he auctions tickets to the events. He has a poetic competition and all these poets do these, you know, she's not even to America yet, right? And these poetic competitions and on the dock where the ship's going to arrive, he has Jenny Lynn swag and bakery goods. They actually ended up coining it Lindomania. Right.

because, and she didn't know this was going to happen. So she arrives on the ship and there's such hysteria, like true, legitimate, first time in America, hysteria over a celebrity that PT Barnum created from someone no one had ever heard of before.

30,000 people show up at the docks and there's like these stories of all these men paying maids to steal hairs from her comb. Like really like weird stuff. Like people were weird back then too. It's not just nowadays. No, it's still around. It's just easier with tech, you know? So it's funny because like, this is like the first real story though, where, where,

Some like celebrity was created out of nothing, out of thin air. And she didn't know this was going to happen. And so she kind of broke up the band after a while, like 90 shows in, just got tired of him and she couldn't sell any shows.

And I think it's one of the biggest parts to it is that as soon as the noise machine ended and Barnum stopped putting stories in the press and he stopped doing competitions and JVs of that day with other opera singers, like the money dried up. Like what a powerful story. And so like at the heart of it, the thing that I take from that is that at the heart, marketers are event throwers.

And we might do an event in so many different ways today, but it's like that's really what we do. Yeah. Magnet administration is key. Yeah. And one thing for those who have seen The Greatest Showman and know Jenny Lin through that, they did not ever have an affair like was portrayed in the movie. That was Hollywood trying to ruin his image. Little P.T. Barnum here in my hand. He never did that kind of thing. He was great. Yeah. In fact, funny enough, Barnum's wife and Jenny Lin did not get along. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I can imagine that. She called PT a cow several times. Anyway, they didn't get along. That's hilarious. Okay, so I want to talk about then like for people listening to this because, you know, obviously me and you geek out on the stories back then, but everyone's like, well, how does this work for me today? What does that even look like? And so I think it'd be fun to just go back and forth on just stuff we've done in the past. I was just, as you were talking, I was trying to think like,

Funnel Hacking Live is a good example of an offer that we do every single year. And it's for us the hardest thing we sell. Events are hard to sell because you got to get somebody convinced that they got to take time off work and get a ticket and host sales and flights and figure out what to do with the kids and the spouse. It's the hardest thing we sell, right? So for us, it's always like... And people always ask me, how do you sell so many tickets to your event? I'm like, well, it's because we're selling them all the time, doing all sorts of stuff throughout the entire year, trying to get excitement and noise. I remember...

One of the dramatic demonstrations we decided to do was a telethon. I was just thinking that one. Do you remember the old PBS telethons? I remember back in the day –

watching telethons and like PBS was like, I remember one day, I can't remember who I said to, we should telethon and usually it's Dave would be like, we should totally do a telethon. And so like in this room that we're in right now, they set up tables and people with phone calls, like phones back there and like, and Dave had the whole money suit on and we just jumped on it for, I don't know how many hours. It was like four hours. Yeah. It was like the Facebook lives and all the Facebook lives were like, call right now, call right now. We're doing this crazy prizes, get away stuff. And just, it was chaos. I think we sold,

I don't know, a couple, like a hundred something tickets that day where we are normal day myself, three or four tickets, you know, and it's just this huge thing. And then it was over, but then I still get people today. Like, do you remember that telethon you guys did the one time? And it was just a, a random, a random drag demonstration to try, to try to recreate and like, to get noise about an offer. Right. You always talk about this, like the goal is like you're creating a hook and the hook is that's what the dramatic demonstration is. Right. Can you explain people what that is? Cause I think a lot of times they,

Like the telethon wasn't funnel hacking live. It was a hook to get people interested so we could then sell them funnel hacking live. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, um, I think the danger is that some people look at a dramatic demonstration is the same thing as a launch. And it's like, they're not really the same thing. You're still launching, you're doing something to get attention. But the real key piece is this little offer hook part.

My favorite way to explain it is back when I was a door-to-door sales guy. And for two summers, door-to-door sales, I sold pest control and I sold security. And I was also a telemarketer. And I did it because I heard Kiyosaki once say in college, he's like, if you're going to be an entrepreneur and you haven't learned how to sell, you're never going to be an entrepreneur. So I was like, make it hard, coach. Put me into the toughest place, you know, and

Door-to-door sales delivered. That sucked. But I remember, though, that there was really, and anyone in sales knows, there's really two parts to the script. And not talking marketing, literally just sales. It's like when I go knock on the door and the opening was like, what's up? Hey, I'm spraying the Joneses house down the street with the truck is here. That's half our cost, so we can do it for 50% off. Is four or five o'clock okay for you today? We just went straight. Very assumptive close. Yeah, straight in. Very assumptive close. What time? What time?

And then, but the whole point though, and I mean, very rarely would someone go five o'clock and instead what it would do is smoke out their issues and we, you know, address them and get around. But the whole point though, is that's really part one of the script. And we were not allowed. In fact, my sales trainer would ask me, did you get to the question? We were never allowed to go to part two of the script where we talk about the offer.

Until we got them to ask one question, which is how much is it? Or tell me more, you know, and that key question right there allowed us to then present the offer. And I think that's the danger here.

A lot of marketers have today is they're assuming when they go put out their marketing copy, they're assuming that people are already saying, tell me more. When really you haven't done part one, which is all this stuff that you're doing. Tell me more. How much is it? And marketers get in trouble. Cause they're like, raise your hand. Come on, get it up there. Yeah. Yeah. You want me to talk about my offer? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Raise that hand. Yeah. And then it's like offensive. It's not a, it's not a collaboration, you know, communication between the two. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So how's that? Like,

So I pitch that for people to make sure they understand. So like, yeah, give me an example of something you've done. Yeah. Um, specifically that breaking dramatic negotiation from the offer and like separating those two things. Yeah. Yeah. I have one, uh, that was, uh, for you actually at the, remember the, um, you know, the weight loss, uh, thing there. So the scenario is this lady, right. The, you, you wanted to go put out, uh, products for and supplements for, uh,

She's like, hey, I said, hey, who's the dream customer? And she goes, I want to work with somebody who is trying to lose weight. They once felt like they were the pretty girl. They want to go and get more. They want to feel better about themselves, be more confident, and they just feel like life has gotten in the way. And so what we had to do is we had to identify a story that wasn't sales material. It was really getting someone to say, tell me more. And so this whole hook was like,

Hey, you just looked at the last picture of you at a party and asked yourself, is that what I look like? And you've known what it's like to get a man's sneaking glance. How come you don't have that anymore? And now you have this diagnosis you kind of feel secret about. And now maybe a relationship didn't turn out the way you want to. And then we basically said, what could you do to get revenge on all these things that have happened in your life only using your body? And we got getyourrevengebody.com.

Which is when the right person hears that, they go, tell me more. And we're not, we're not, you know, we're not walking around. It's not a sales script. It's getting someone to just go, wait, what? Just hand raising is all you're really doing. So if you think about that, like for anyone watching or listening, it's like, look at everything you're doing in marketing today and ask yourself, does it get, does this get someone to raise their hand?

or am I already asking them for money and we're not even in a relationship yet? That's really a good way to figure out what you're doing. Yeah. How do we get their attention? How do we get them to stop? How do we get them to want more? Yeah. Initially create the, create the desire. It's interesting. Cause like when I, I'm thinking about, it's funny. I'm obviously planning funnel hacking live. You don't have your tickets yet. Go to funnel hacking lab.com. Crazy. But I'm also thinking like, like what are campaigns we've in the past? And so I always think like, what's something that's hot right now? So two, two years ago in NFTs were like the thing. It was like, Oh, NFTs are so cool. So I was like,

okay, we know this is a thing that people are talking about. Like, how do I, how do I, um, how do I use that as a hook to get, like take something that already interested in and throw my, my message out there to like hook upon it and use the, use the existing attention of what's happening. Right. So we did that. So we did this whole, it was like NFT, FHL.com or something. And like, and I remember we took everyone who had ever been to funnel hack live in the past. And we, we had these like bank bags. I put a sales letter to the big old NFT. I can't remember all the stuff on it.

And we shipped it to everyone who ever bought it too. So it's like 17,000 people have come and found out in the past. We send this thing in the mail, they got it. They were able to read through it. And then it was like, there's a live event coming. This is just for you guys, nobody else. And so, you know, 17,000 people had a private invite to this NFT event. And then we came on and we're talking about NFTs and why they're so cool. I'm like, this year's FHL, Tom Billy's going to talk about NFTs, which is amazing. Show you how you use NFTs inside your funnel. Um, on top of that, like, um,

we actually created NFTs for all of you guys who've been to Funnel Hike Night. We made an NFT for each year, right? So, and then it was cool as I used, I used this whole NFT angle to be able to sit there and like present to people. So it was crazy. We had a couple thousand people on this presentation and they sat there for hours. I went through and I was like, okay, those who are 2015, how many of you guys are 2015? I'm like, this is the NFT you get if you're here for 2015. I showed them the thing and I was like,

And like, let me show you guys a video. So I showed the sales video from 2015 FHL. So they saw that. I came back and I was able to pitch, go get tickets. And I showed the 2017 one and the same thing. It's like for two hours, they're watching FHL

little video presentations about old events. They got an NFT for being there. So they got nostalgia. Like, I remember being there. I remember like I told the story behind each event. And by the time it was done, you know, people sat there for like 90 minutes, me doing like story time with Russell. And they're all like, people are crying. Like, I remember that event. I want to go back. And all these people like re-bought tickets afterwards. But it was like, it was like creating this desire and a hook and like just something different to like get out there to like re-get their attention. Right? Yeah. That's the hardest thing nowadays is there's so much, I don't know, just like,

Everyone's so busy and attention is the key, right? Yeah. And it's the hardest thing to get. And we're competing not just against like...

the people in their life. You're competing against like some of the greatest people. We're competing against Joe Rogan, the UFC, NFL, NBA. Like everyone's fighting for the same eyeballs every second on each other's phones, right? Like that's who we're competing against. Everybody else is like, how do you create something that's already got their interest and you're grabbing those people and then bringing them back, bringing it back in. I was thinking, yeah. And just, okay, I was thinking about this a while ago. I was like,

So what really, if attention is the goal and there's all these ways to get attention, like what really is the precursor, like the leading indicator to attention? And it's really noise. You know, like we look at the origin of sound and that's true even on a phone or whatever. Like, and you can make noise. I think the problem is that when people hear marketing and they hear the word noise, they think annoying noise.

You know, but you can make positive noise. You can make things that people are excited about. Yeah, music is right. And it reminds me of that. Do you remember when we did a long time ago? Do you remember the 24-hour funnel build that we did? Yeah. Remember we built like four different companies funnels in one day? Because I was like, I just watched like every 24-hour or from the TV show 24. I'm like, we should do that. That was...

That was a fun, insane night. Do you remember Brandon? You guys can't see him. He's behind the camera. He was there filming and editing. By like 4 a.m., he was laughing uncontrollably because he was so tired. And we couldn't stop. I forgot about that. Remember that? 100%. We should do that again. We should relaunch that episode just to show everybody that whole chaos. That would be fun.

came from that that's really fun well i think that that's like the i think where people sometimes i hear dramatic demonstration they get a little bit hung up too is they hear the word dramatic and they're like i gotta do the equivalent of bringing a celebrity from europe you know i gotta go and or whatever but it can just be doing what you do in a really unique way yeah you know just some building for 24 hours it's something interesting it's like how do you do something that's yeah doing like we just built funnels 24 hours or

And then we went to the movie theater and launched the episode like a few hours later. Remember that? Go take an apricot cake and then come back and watch it again.

Oh my gosh. That was so much fun. That was crazy. We did a lot of crazy stuff back in the day. Yeah, we did. We got to add some more chaos back into our lives. Too civilized. Yeah. It's so interesting. What's up, everybody? Really quick, I want to jump in because I am excited for our next sponsor of the show. The next sponsor is Mint Mobile. I found out about Mint originally when Ryan Reynolds bought in the company. And Ryan's not only one of the greatest actors of all time, he's one of the best marketers I've ever seen. If you've watched

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I was thinking about another recent dramatic demonstration we did, and you know about this one, but it was with Dan Kennedy, right? Yeah.

because again, me and you've been talking about so much. So every time we would have a new like offer trying to launch my next question, like what's a dramatic demonstration? Like my mind is thinking. So it's like, like what is something we create big to again, get excitement and attention. And what's interesting, those who are last years talking live, Tim Shields spoke on the late night session about dramatic demonstrations that he does dramatically, right? And he's interesting because

he was, in his past, he would do courses, right? He did courses about photography and things like that from his house. And then he thought, what if I made this more exciting for people? And so what he would do is he would go find a spot. So the very first one he did was this, he went to the Grand Canyon, it's the side of the Grand Canyon. He did his live webinar there. It's the same webinar, nothing different other than he's like, I'm taking you guys to the side of the Grand Canyon. It's going to be amazing. And he brought Starlink out there and he did the whole thing. And he actually recorded a course out in the Grand Canyon. And then he did a webinar from there.

showing them the stuff and then like sold them the course. And I, well, he's, they got the course free when they signed for his continuity program. So he's totally doing the MIFG, you know, doing my, playing the playbook. But it was really, really cool. I had him share it with everybody, but I, he said it, but it didn't really click. I was like, that's cool. I wish I was a photographer because I could do that. And he showed how he did it in like Banff, Canada and this other place, like all over the world doing these cool things. But again, I don't know.

I'm sure people at home are similar to me. Like that sounds really cool. I wish I could do that. And I kept saying that. And then he joined the Atlas groups. Then like three weeks later, he's here on the stage in Boise and he's shown the whole thing again. I was like, Oh, I wish I was a photographer. I could totally do something cool like that. And he said, see, it's something that got me a little closer to realizing, but I still didn't pay attention. He's like, he's like, the key is this. And so this is like for anyone who's taking notes. He said, the key is this. He's like, you have to take your customers to a place that they wish they could go, but they would never go on their own.

And I was like, Ooh, that's so cool. Took a note. Still didn't, didn't drop. They didn't, didn't sit in my head and they looked at me directly. I was sitting right there. He looked at me. He's like, Russell, you know what I'd do if I was you? I'm like, what? He's like, your people would love to go to Dan Kennedy's basement. You hear, you always talk about it. If I was heard about, they can't go there. There's no internet there. He's like, you should bring a Starlink to Dan Kennedy's basement and go live from there. I was like,

oh, I had to be handed me on a silver platter before I got it. But then I got it. And hopefully like from that process, I'm like, we'll now get it. But I'm like, now in my head, I'm like, where else could I be doing these things at? Right. I was like, we're supposed to go out to Wise Virginia, which is Napoleon Hill's home. And we're just gonna go do a mastermind there. I'm like, I'm so stupid. Like I should be doing it from there. Like we, last month we were at, in Chicago, Earl Nightingale's place. And we were in the archives and all this stuff. And I didn't, I didn't even think about it. Like I should have brought it there. Like it's just like, if you're doing something anyway, it's like,

like whatever you're doing as a business owner, like bring them there. Right. Like, what are you doing anyway? And like, and they let people experience that journey. That's part of like the intrigue. And that's part of, it could be another way to look at a hook. You know, it's just a little bit differently. So Dan, we did that and we ended up,

By doing that one dramatic demonstration, we signed up more people in the 15 minute window than we had in like eight months with paid ads through our traditional funnels. It's like the power of it's insane. It wasn't that hard. It was just like, we had to tell the story that the hook's gotta be something interesting enough to be like, wow, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta register for that. I gotta show up for it. You know, like a typical webinar you get, you know, whatever people register and like

15% show up, right? For Dan Kennedy's basement, it was like, first off, we had way more registrants because there's over 10,000 registrants because people are curious, right? And then we had like 70% show up live. So it's just like, it shifts the whole dynamics. Now you're pitching to more people because you created something different than just like, I'm doing a webinar for my office today, you know? And now we can evergreen that webinar and show it for the rest of our lives. So, yeah.

Anyway, I believe fun ideas. No, I think it's so cool because I really think it's the antidote to like how the world has gotten. I mean, it's more ads have just gotten crazy, you know, and you actually said something at Inner Circle last week that was like, I thought really cool. It's like the final speech you gave the final day and you go, you said, yeah, in the past, like 10 years ago, these masterminds were all about ways we could do unique JVs together. But now we're all talking about ads 24 seven.

How interesting is it that I almost feel like the scale is tilting the other way? And to me, the concept of dramatic demonstration is the antidote to how much ads world has gone nuts. And there's kind of...

I think there's a skill increase here that's going to be necessary for companies because they're going to have to learn how to get attention without just rushing to pay ads. You know what I mean? Which now they get to go more creative and make some more attention. But it's actually easier, faster sales if you do it right than eight months worth of ads. I think it's easier too because I used to think creativity came in like making better ads. So we hired the Harmon Brothers like four times and they're amazing, insane.

But each time it's like a half a million dollars to make an ad campaign. Most people can't do that. Instead, it's like, I'm going to go, insert whatever you do, I'm going to go take these guys to my high school gym where I grew up and I'm going to show them me shooting baskets at my high school gym. Just something new or it's unique. We can tell a story behind it that becomes interesting and dramatic. Now, I also talk about

The very first funnel I can have when we talked, in fact, you requested this to me. I want you to show the campaign you did to actually sell the Expert Secrets books. Most people saw the funnel. Like, here's the funnel of how we launched Expert Secrets, and they thought that's what it was. And it was fun preparing for that because I started going back in time, and I was like, I can't believe how many little mini –

things we were doing all the way up leading to, to the big thing. I don't have a list of them all right now, but it was like, we were, we had dramatic demonstrations to our affiliates specifically and to our audience, the people who were like following us, like there were multiple things all coming together. The ads were dramatic demonstrations. There were so many fun things we did. Um,

And I don't know, can you remember? I'm trying to remember off the top of my head a couple of the things we were doing. Totally. It was like 13 things that you did. All unique different things, yeah. They were crazy. I think we're going to show at the event too. So those who, if you've registered DramaticDemonstrations.com, we're going to show that presentation so you actually see the screenshots and the videos of all the different things that are happening, which will be kind of fun. And that's, I don't think people realize that like,

launching a book or launching a Harmon brother video or whatever, you know, it's, it's the same thing as launching a product, you know, and, and really a lot of times the precursor to it. But I mean, you remember this, I remember it was like two days before that book came out and you sent me a message and you go, dude, we should probably figure out how to put the funnel together because all of the marketing energy was in promoting it. There was no funnel yet. Yeah.

Yeah, that was a little stressful last two days. I had so much caffeine more than I had in my life. We should have thought about that ahead of time. But we focused more on dramatic demonstrations. I was missing. Even after the launch happened, because remember we launched the book and then it was like, how do we keep momentum going? I remember Howard Berg, the world's fastest reader, he had messaged me something. I was like, I have an idea. I'm like, hey, can I fly you to Boise and I want you to read my entire book and

It will time you off as you can read it. And I'm going to drill you on questions. And that became just a dramatic demonstration. Like the world's fastest readers here in Boise. I gave him the books where he read it. I think he read the whole book in like four minutes or blown away, something crazy. And I was like drilling them on questions and he knew all the answers. And it was like, like, what's the point of that? Nothing except for to get people excited and like make it like intriguing, interesting. They make it, you know what I mean? And it was like, or like when you sent the book to everybody and they thought they got the real book, but there was nothing in it. Yeah.

There was thousands of people. Yeah, the book wasn't finished yet. So I was like, how do I get affiliates to be interested about this book? Yeah, so we printed out blank copies. I had people texting me like, bro, this book is so good. And I was like, there's nothing in it. It's all blank pages. I was just sending you something to let you know a book is coming, get them excited about the whole campaign. Yeah, but it's like thinking through all those different things. What are the things we can be doing? I forgot, you mentioned the Harmon Brothers video. We launched the video and it wasn't just like, okay, the video is going live on YouTube. It's like,

Like, what can we do to make this special? And how can we get people talking about it? How can we get the right people talking about it? Like, if we want to get influencers to share and promote it, how do we get those people there? Like, we're going to throw a party. And so it went from throwing a party to throwing a party at Boise State Football Stadium. It's like, what if we, like, did a bubble soccer game? It'd be fun. Like, what if we tried to set a Guinness Book of World Records? You know, like, it got chaotic. So sometimes...

you know, this is not a good example of how to like do small ones, but it's, it's a good example of big ones. But how do you make it more fun and more exciting? And, you know, to launch a YouTube video, we had,

I can't remember, 300 or 400 people in the event. Gary Vee came in, all these influencers, and everyone together talked about and pushed and promoted this video, and that helped it to go viral. I think it's such a key thing to understand, too. I think that's actually one of the biggest things people struggle with when they think dramatic demonstration is they don't realize when you're an entrepreneur, that mentality affords to think minimum viable product. What's the fastest thing I can do to get it out the door as quick as possible? Right?

But like marketers have a totally different mentality where it's like, what's the loudest thing I can do? How can I make the most? There's no such thing as minimum viable really with marketers. It's like, I'm going to go big. I'm going to throttle hard. And that doesn't mean complicated or chaotic, but loud, you know, getting that attention. I, my favorite part of that bubble soccer thing.

was when you made the list of dream 400 YouTubers. And the script was that you had to act like you were getting out of the car for each one. And I remember looking at you out the window and you got out of the, what's up, this is Russell Brunson. I've just got this cool thing coming up I want to invite you to. And you're like getting out of the car. You got out of the car faked 400 times and I'm building 400 pages of the guy. I was like,

It was like every influencer was like, hey, what's going on, dude? Perfect. So excited to see you. Yeah, like over. Yeah. I think the reason why I've been successful a lot of times is I'm willing to do what most people are not willing to do. You know what I mean? It was hours and hours of me doing that. In fact, it's funny because I think back about, man, this is pre-ClickFunnels, pre-anything anyone would even remember. But yeah.

My brother just started with me as my video guy. We didn't have a video. We had just a cam recorder that you could film video clips or a camera, a photo camera you could take videos on as well. And so same thing I was doing a joint venture or trying to do a launch with JV partners. And so I had my brother stand there and film me do like 300 videos talking to each person. But what's funny about it is, again, this is,

It's a little handheld camera, but we didn't have a tripod or anything. And so this is like his first day working for me. So he's standing there holding this camera, like start, stop, start, stop, start, stop. And I remember like after like 30 minutes, he's like, my back's hurting, my shoulders. I was like, sorry, man, like we can't stop. Like we have to keep going. And so for hours, he's filming these things. And I feel so like looking back at Scott, if you're watching, thank you again for sacrificing your body. Uh,

for this thing but it was like four hours of that like after a while we're setting up books to put his hands on the books to like hold it steady you know yeah but it's like yeah like I need everyone to I need to make enough noise like you know people aren't going to listen to like a mass email to 400 people except be a specific video specific for every single person same thing we watched click funnels the exact same thing we made those video cards and I made a video for every single joint venture partner that's right specifically for every single one of those things yeah

It's just the mentality. I think that's the piece people just struggle with. They don't realize it's a different mentality than entrepreneur. And they work together, but one's kind of like the builder, one's the noise creator, and they're just so unique. One's like, I can just go do this in a cave. I'm going to build my offer. I'm going to sit in a cave. I don't think you should do that, but you can build a whole product in isolation. But you really can't do it as a marketer. I know it's stupid, but sometimes I'll like,

take a hat off and put another hat on i'm like okay i gotta change mentality otherwise i let the entrepreneur mentality start to drive the marketing seat and that's when it gets dangerous because i'm like doing minimum viable copy minimum viable noise minimum and it just doesn't work that way that reminds me um as you said that so this is a good example so um my book i'm writing a book i'm gonna write like five years so who knows if it'll come out but um check this out so

Let me pull up here on Instagram. So I realized I was like, if I'm going to do this book, like I need to make more noise and talk about it more often. Right. But also it's like,

if I can take my audience on the journey with me, they'll be more likely when the book is done to want to buy it. Instead of me being like, I wrote a book. Here it is. They know nothing about the backstory, the pain, the anger, the anxiety, the stress, the fact I'm bleeding from my fingers to type this book. So I decided I was going to start documenting this journey and start filming it. I shared this inner circle so you've seen it, but this is fascinating. So I started this series on Instagram. So follow me on Instagram. You can go see it. And so I

I started in the very first one. So video one says day number one of writing a new book and hopefully selling a million copies. So very first one I posted, I got 43,000 views, which is not bad for a real, like not great, but for me it's like, this is, yeah, this is good. It's great. Um,

And then episode number two, I posted. So day two, I'm writing a new book, selling a million copies, 42,000 views. So about the same, a little less. It starts getting momentum. Then day number three, best-selling book, selling a million copies, 30,000 views. So still not quite there, but then it starts getting a little more traction. Day four, 25,000 views. And then day five, 49,000. It starts growing. Then day number six, 192,000.

Day number seven, 594,000. So I'm seven days into this. This is me sharing this thing in a direct demonstration. It's like slowly, slowly, slowly starts picking up speed. So day seven, 594,000 people watch this video. Day number eight will launch, I think, on Monday. So once a week, we're launching this little series. And think about this now. It's going to take me a year to write this book. So in a year from now, I'm going to have like, who knows, maybe 100 of these little episodes.

I don't know if this trajectory would continue to go, but imagine like I'm, I'm doing this little mini, like it's a 60 second dramatic demonstration, right? Just, just writing the book. Here's the chaos. Here's the stress. Here's the thing I'm learning. Here's like, you know, whatever it is.

Like a year from now, imagine if these videos are getting, I don't know, 3 million, 5 million, 10 million views. And then my book comes out. There's 10 million people who every single day for a year have been anxiously anticipating the launch of this book that's eventually going to come. And that's like, hey, my book's ready. Like boom, New York Times bestseller in five seconds. Cause I've been doing this journey long, right? And I think that for anybody like,

Instead of building your offers or your funnel or your course or your coaching or anything in isolation, start sharing the journey. Like this is what I'm doing. This is why I'm doing this. And just like start taking people on that journey. And then when you get to the finish line, now you have the noise and the audience and all that kind of stuff versus like, okay, the book's done. How should I sell this? I get people come to me like, hey, I just created my course. I killed myself. It's done. What should I do? And I was like, you missed it. You should have started. You missed it.

Build the audience first. Like that's the, like, that's the key. It's been, it's been actually interesting. As you know, my obsession now is like, how do I get traffic? That's not,

like non Zuckerberg traffic. Yeah. Not a nice non Zuckerberg, not why I have to pay him. Right. Yeah. And so I've been doing a lot of interviews on the podcast, talking specifically to people about that. And we had someone talked about Facebook groups and their whole key was like how simple it was, how cheap was to grow Facebook groups. I was like, think about this. If you're going to start a new offer, create a Facebook group and just start organically growing and dropping, same day dropping. Here's what I'm doing. Here's what I'm doing. Who's doing. And all of a sudden, like in a month from now, nine days from now, you have an audience of 500,000, 2000 people, uh,

for almost no cost in this group now who are part of this process they have an audience to sell to right or whatever the thing might be it's just like start that the noise like the creation of noise early so that when you're ready to make a lot of noise like that you know the level of I don't know how to explain this shit but it's waiting for you instead of you like dude Barnum did the same that's one of the biggest lessons I learned going through all these campaigns was he's like

a lot of what internet business owners will do is they'll be like, I finished my product yesterday. Therefore today I'm going to launch it. And it's like, ah, darn it. You know, they start emailing their list or they start posting. They start immediately approaching the traffic that they can control. But what Barnum did is he never talked to traffic. He can like reach until step four. Like the first thing he always did was he'd always get credibility for the offer and involve another influencer always. Like, and I think that's a big key piece to it is like,

Every single time he would go involve another influencer and then always involve the audience in the launch. You know what I mean? Like he would never, ever launched in isolation. He launched with the audience, but always like, it's like a little carrot thing. Can't have it yet. Can't have it yet. Can't have it yet. It reminds me of, um, interesting dude. Uh, you remember, uh, it's like eight years ago. I was about to leave working for you. I was sad. And eight years ago, isn't that crazy? That left almost eight years ago. I had him. I was like, it was like 18 months ago. I know. It feels like it was last week. Right.

That's crazy. Nuts, right? A lot of times go by. But like the last project we ever did together was for Software Secrets. Do you remember that? I didn't know we were doing anything for them. And so three months before that, I was looking at different podcasts on software and I started listening to this podcast called Software Secrets. I was like, oh, sweet. And for three months, I mean, every time I mow the lawn or like fold clothes or whatever, lift, you know, anything, I would be listening to this podcast and they're like,

All right, we got a crazy thing for you today. We're building our software and we're just documenting what's happening to us. We had a coder hold us hostage and we had the, you know, and he's, they're telling this backstory. And then the next episode they're like, and I'm binging it. Cause I feel like I have to catch up now. And they're documenting them building the software. And there's this little feature. I remember in the top left, this one little feature was right there in the corner.

And there was three or four episodes about how hard it was to get that little feature. And I remember I got to the very end of that show mad that it wasn't live yet because I was totally sold and ready to go buy. And then I remember I walked in and looked at your board and we were building. I was like, this is them? Are you kidding me? And I was like the first guy to buy. They're building all the anticipation before. Yeah, yeah. You include the audience in the launch. Yeah. Yeah. Just like Hollywood. It's so interesting that like…

I feel like we all, the market got lazy. Yeah. A little bit. Literally because of Facebook ads. Yeah. Cause like, Oh, I can just flip a switch and people will show up. And it's like, that's getting harder and harder and more and more expensive. And again, more and more noise. It's like, man, the people who can, who can engineer the stuff correctly ahead of time. Yeah. Uh, it, it's the, it's the key.

And I started thinking about this, like I was out visiting Andy Elliott yesterday. I think I told you, and I look at what their company's doing. And it's like, they're, they're posting two YouTube videos a day, five reels a day, all this kind of stuff. But they're not just like them, like sitting behind a desk, like, let me tell you three tips to what, you know, it's like, it's very, it's very like these little mini dramatic, little things are doing to like get attention, to get you engaged, get you like, like I want, like whatever that feeling I'm seeing, I want that. I need to feel that. I want to feel that, you know what I mean? That's what they're just driving with over and over and over again. It's like,

if we start looking at everything we're doing as, as producers, as content developers, whatever you want to call yourself, a creator, it's just looking at like, how do we change this from scripted things to like experiences we're giving people? You know what I mean? Like, yeah, we're in the experience stage. Like, like someone asked me the other day that I, that I, you know, information used to be the thing, you

you know, like in fact, when we bought Dan Kennedy's company was fascinating because they gave me like the newsletter I read every, every month, like 20 years. They also had a CD of the month club and the people pay an additional $97 to get a CD each month with an interview on it. And like that was worth $97 a month back in the day, which is, that's a podcast interview now, right? There's no value in that anymore. And like courses used to be better, but like, and, and they asked me like, what's, what's the difference? Like if information's now free, like what's the next, it was the information age. What's the next thing? And,

And I thought about, I think that there's two things. One is like, I think implementations where money's at help implement the ideas. But number two is education and entertainment and like getting people involved. So it's like, if you stop looking at what you're doing is like,

As anything else, I'm trying to educate my audience. No, no, no. You're trying to entertain your audience. That's why they stick. That's why they pay attention. That's why they get on board. That's why they fall in love with you. That's when they show up. That's when they buy your stuff. And the people that are winning today at the highest level in our markets that I study, that I geek out on, it's those who are using this entertainment, engaging the audience, and that's the audience that are sucked into it. So it's like thinking about it through that lens. And that's why P.G. Barnum –

A little PT here, by the way. They call him the great showman, right? That's the thought. How do you become the great showman in your market where it's not just running ads? If you just put a billboard telling people that the circus is in town, it would not have happened, right? It's him creating these things that make it bigger. I think that if we can all just look at it through that lens a little differently, we're doing the same work. It's just how you are

the frame your mind's going to as you're doing those things. That's what makes a dramatic demonstration powerful. You know what I mean? Do you love the Marketing Secrets Podcast, but you don't love listening to the ads? If so, we've got great news. We just launched an ad-free version of the podcast you can get subscribed to for just $4.99 per month. As one of our premium members, you'll have ad-free content that seamlessly integrates with your favorite podcast listening app like Spotify or Apple.

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Did you ever read a book called, it's by Daniel Pink called, I think it's Whole New Mind or something like that. It was one of my design classes in college. They had us read it and I've never forgotten his claim. His claim was that in the near future, because of tech and all this automation, so much of the left brain activities of our life will be automated. Therefore, the future belongs solely to the right brain thinkers.

Isn't that interesting? Wow. The more creative people are really the ones who own the future because all of the rest of it is going to be analog automated. But AI can't be, at least as as now it's not creative, right? AI is, is you still have to be the input. You know what I mean? And so like, I think that's, what's powerful about it is like, okay, AI and all this stuff is so powerful, but you know, you,

I was trying to explain this to someone actually on my own podcast. I was like, hey, I love AI. It's really powerful. It's a step in the creative process but never has the final say in it. However...

You know, if I go ask like ChatGPT, hey, what are the 10 steps to start a business? It'll load like 10 steps out. But what it can't do is give me personal experience. By the way, watch out for step three. That one's a beast. When I executed it, it was, you know, so I think there's going to be, that's where it sits in. And I think it's where it overlaps with dramatic demonstrations is like, come with me while I show you my creative process, because the rest of the stuff is the value of it's dropped.

Yeah. Yeah. So fascinating. All right. I want to talk about what we're doing. We have some cool stuff coming up. The long-term goal is, which is not here yet. We're making a book about dramatic demonstrations, which is going to be amazing, right? Like, and you've seen the cover design. It looks so cool. Yeah. I'm excited for that, that book and everything about it. But to do a book, and those who may not know this, like,

I've written three books, working on book number four now. Book number one, I wrote the book, hated it, deleted it, threw a three-day event, taught the book, people went crazy. From that, I made some shifts and then I wrote the book and it became Dotcom Secrets. X

Expert Secrets, I wrote the book, hated it, deleted it, threw a three-day event, did the whole thing, and then came back, and then that became the book. Traffic Secrets, ah, I learned this time. I threw the event, and then I wrote the book. Much simpler process. I probably needed my Secrets to Success event. Maybe that's what I, anyway. It might be. Yeah, maybe that's the thing I'm missing. But for us, that's the plan. We're writing this book. We're going to do a three-day event. Before the three-day event, because...

And obviously it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be in your office. I'm excited to do a full event there, which would be cool. And everyone should come to that. But prior to that, obviously we want to provide value first. So we're doing...

I don't even know, a mini, we're doing our own dramatic demonstration to talk about dramatic demonstrations. Get to come to the dramatic demonstration event so you'll buy the dramatic demonstration book eventually. But the first one's coming up and I don't even know, by the time this podcast drops it's probably in a week or two or, you know, it'll probably have coming really soon. Maybe it may already happen and hopefully the replays are there. But there's a free event coming up. Do you want to talk about kind of what is going to be happening in that event and why they should go register for free at dramaticdemonstrations.com? Yeah, yeah. Honestly, like,

you know I think this is a cool thing too that you've really been teaching everybody about also is you can go use things of the past

you know to go be dramatic about it so yeah we're doing a three-day event it's all about um well actually first is the three hour i'm getting a mix up three hours free three hours it's a free one yeah yeah and we're gonna go through and teach at a kind of a high level really what all the dramatic demonstration what it is and then the next part is like really the copy like that's really where i think people get it messed up is again they're acting like a salesperson when they should be marketer or they're acting like an entrepreneur when they should be acting like a marketer

And so it teaches those. And just like we teach those, the ramp up process to the next thing and then the next thing and then the next thing. Yeah. It's been cool. And I think for those who were at Funnel Hacking Live, they saw our presentations. Like we're actually gonna be showing those again. Yeah. For free, which is cool. So that'll give you guys the context. The very first year we talked about, it was very deep into like, like launching extra secrets book and showing all that stuff. We talked about those kinds of things and a bunch of other things, which was really cool. And for me, that was probably my favorite presentation I've given on stage.

like I came off stage. I was like, that was so much fun. It was amazing. That was number one. And you're number two, we switched more to the copy side of things. And so they're gonna have a chance to watch both those presentations for free during this live event, which would be cool. Um, the second one, like you say, we go more to copy and there's a phrase that you use, which I, I, I think you nailed it with the phrase one. Like, yeah, what's it called? It's called the offer hook, the offer. So you're going to learn about the offer hook, which is cool, which is,

Um, this is something you knew you brought to my thought and my, and you got for a couple of my businesses. Now we were talking about potentially even doing it today. We're out of time, but doing it today for one of my, my projects I'm working on, but it's a really cool process. And those who are coming to life, but you're actually going to be doing it for them. It's one-on-one offer one-on-one. Yeah. One-on-one he'll build out your offer for you, which that's worth 20 grand just by itself.

But you learn about that during the free event as well. So both things happen. The free event's going to be amazing. You just go watch it. And then here's the behind the scenes. We're going to pitch you to come to the three-day event at the end of it. That's it. So either way, they give value. And then you should come to the three-day event. Because the event will be amazing. It's going to be a really small group. It's not going to be a ton of people there. It's going to be you with a really small group of people going through it. And then the fact you're building people's offer hooks is –

worth buying a ticket just for that. It's a lot of work, but I love doing it. It's always like, it feels like a jigsaw puzzle and like, ah, this is why you have, don't have leads anymore. Yeah. It's really fascinating watching you do the process too. You've done it for me twice. Um,

and just watching the way your brain goes because for me it's like first i'm like why is he asking these questions this is so weird and all of a sudden like you pop like blah blah blah i'm like what the where did you pull that from that is amazing and so i'm hoping you're gonna i know you're gonna be teaching how you do that framework but i'm sure it's a hard thing to teach so the fact that they're gonna have a chance in a three-day to learn it but then have you just do it for him is like is is gonna be special so i'm excited for that so um yeah i'm i'm

I think what else we need to, we need to cover dramatic demonstrations are fun though. It's like the thing that's number one on my mind right now is every campaign, every offer, every everything. I'm just like, how do we, what are all the, the, the big, you know, for me it's like a webinar could be dramatic demonstration, a challenge, be damaged, direct demonstration, but videos are ads are like, so for me it's like, what are all the different things we're doing out there to really create the noise to get people to buy the offer we actually want them to do. And so like I,

I'm glad that we coined this phrase because at least for me personally, now it's like the whole team's like, what are the dramatic demonstrations around this? Like, yes, we got tons. Like, let's start throwing out the ideas and then that's when that's all the fun. We channel our inner mini PT Barnum. Yeah. You know, to be able to do that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, remember there's a while ago you talked about, you know, the who, not the how kind of a thing. I think we're about to go through that as a market because the more I've talked about dramatic demonstrations, it's been interesting to see who,

who is like drawn to it versus who's like, and I think if people, you know, they watch a listen and like, I don't know that I'm really the person to go do that. That's okay. You don't find the who that is. That's psyched about that. And I think there's going to be more of the, the true marketers to raise their hands coming up, you know? And like, ah, I love that stuff. That'd be fun. For sure. You had to become a student, this game to be, yeah, it's the biggest thing I've learned in the last 20 years is like those who become obsessed with the marketing of their thing, uh,

Do way better than those who are obsessed with the thing, you know? So be obsessed with both. Be obsessed with your product, the thing, but be more obsessed about the marketing because that's, if you really love the thing you're trying to sell, you should be obsessed with the marketing of it because that's like,

that's the fulfillment of the thing you, you created, right? Like without, without that, like there's no point in it. Like, you know what I mean? You create something no one knows about it. Then what's the point of you even creating it? Like, why did you do it? And if you really love the thing you create, like you got to become obsessed with the marketing because that's when you get to share the gift. And that's when, that's when all the, like all the, the benefits of creation come. You get to see it, work on the people, you see it change their lives. You see like them have the ahas, you know? I remember listening to Ryan Holiday and he talked about how,

uh, writing a book is such, it's like such a private thing, right? Same with creating an offer or whatever. It's like privates in your head, but then like the sharing, it was very public, which is why a lot of people get scared. Um, for me, I remember writing the doc on secrets, but I, I, I killed myself. Like that was my first, like my mind, the first real art I'd created, you know, I'd done other stuff, courses and stuff. It was like, this was art for me. It was like,

And it was so personal. I was so scared to share it with people. In fact, I remember I sent copies to a bunch of my friends. There's one friend who I – it's Rich Sheffrin. He's like one of the most voracious readers I've ever met. I was like so scared for him to get it because I'm like this is my art. I don't want to share it. And then we were at TNC and he came to me. He's like, dude, all these people said they got your book. Can you send it to me? I'm like, oh. What are you going to say about it? Because I'm scared of you. You're the one who could like destroy my soul in like one negative review. And I had one there. And he's like, can I take it on the flight with me home? I was like –

yeah, man. So he took it and I was just like, what if he hates it? Like then, and it's crazy. He read the whole flight home and he, he finished on the flight and he texted me. He's like, bro, this is good. This is really good. And I was like, Oh, you know, I think that's the, the, the thing is most people are so scared of like, what if my thing's not good? But it's like, yeah, man. Like, but then when I got that feedback, like, this is good. There was like,

like so validating. Then I was like, I want to tell everybody in the world about it. You know what I mean? That's how I feel about this book. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, this better be good. I know it's going to be a good book, but I'm like, man, like what if it sucks? Oh, for sure. Yeah, man. I definitely feel that pressure with it. It's going to be so fun though. I'm excited, man. It'll be great. You've, I mean, I know just watching you iterate on these frameworks and stuff last two years or so has been really cool to see. And I think labor love spot now where it's like, it's simple and, and,

and replicatable where people can actually use it and i think that's the exciting thing so yeah uh yeah and i think it'll be fun because we can share a bunch of stories from old dead people i'm gonna bring some of my my favorite scenes as well like some of my favorite marketers are just watching what they've done you know reading what they did in the past is really really cool and then uh i'm gonna bring a lot of case studies to the event of just like what people are doing right now i've been watching i've been last two years my eyes wide open watching everybody so it's like it's

you know, I'll bring my swipe file of cool things people can look at and you can model in your business as well. So it's going to be awesome. I am pumped for the event. So those again who are watching this or listening to this, wherever you are, go to dramatic demonstrations, plural, no plural, plural, direct demonstrations.com. Go register for the free event, three hour event. You get the two, you'll be able to watch the two presentations from, from fun hiking live plus a bunch of other cool stuff. And at the end of that, we'll invite you to come to the, to the live event, the workshop. If you're interested in coming out with me and Steve in a really small room with a

you know, dozen or so people will be, it'll be intimate. It'll be fun. Yeah. Uh, you can't get that anywhere else. I don't do events like that anywhere else. I'm only gonna do it one time too. It's like it,

It'll be fun. It's going to be amazing. It's going to be great. I appreciate it, man. I'm excited to do this with you. It's going to be awesome. And dramatic demonstrations, everyone, that's the key. That's the next step in your business, your journey. Make some dramatic demonstrations. Come learn how to do it live with us. And if you enjoyed this podcast episode, if you're listening on my podcast, please rate and review. Let me know how I liked it. If you're listening on Steve, same thing. They should probably tell you how cool you are and then go subscribe to his podcast if you're listening on mine and vice versa. Yep.

And I appreciate you guys listening. Any final words before we bounce? Just excited to have you guys. It's going to be awesome. I really think this is going to be the final thing that helps people get their lead flow back up where it should be. Yeah, it's going to be awesome, man. Anyway, I appreciate you. Thanks so much. And we'll see you guys all at the live event. DramaticalDemonstrations.com. Let's go.