Hello friends, welcome back to the show. My guest today is Corey Allen. He's a meditation coach, podcaster, and an author. We all face challenges in life. However, learning to navigate your emotions and understanding the role that your thoughts play in your well-being can make hard times much more manageable.
Expect to learn why so many people feel like they are drifting in life, why genuine change is so hard to achieve, how to fully embrace your emotions and feel more alive, where the negative voice in our heads comes from, how to set goals and habits that actually stick, how to learn to trust yourself, and much more.
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when they go to nomatic.com slash modernwisdom and using the code MW20 at checkout. That's nomatic.com slash modernwisdom and MW20 at checkout. But now, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Corey Allen. ♪♪♪
Corey Allen, welcome to the show. Thank you, Chris. It's so good to be back, man. All the way from episode 12 to episode something like 812 now. That's insane. Do you feel all 800 episodes in your body? I do, like a burden, like a lifetime fentanyl addict that's just been accumulating all of this stuff.
Yeah, it's like 800 track marks. That is it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 800 one night stands, essentially. But I know I tell you this, you know, every time we see each other and whenever we podcast, but man, I'm just so proud of you. And like, just seeing the trajectory and the growth from episode 12 to episode 812 is just, man, amazing.
It's one of the few things that gets me fired up more than seeing people, friends, people I care about succeed. And it's beautiful, man. So I love it. I'm so happy for you.
And this is just step one. This is phase one, man. - God, don't say that. - Oh yes. Phase one. - I very much appreciate that. That is very, very kind, dude. I've been a huge fan of your stuff for a long time. So I guess maybe a lot of the audience might not be familiar. I can give a little bit of a background.
found the best guided meditation that i've ever done was your release into now your original one with binaural beats and then we came on and we spoke about binaural beats and um
I'm always interested in the trajectory of people that have got a background in meditation and then try and apply it. Not the asceticism, live in a cave somewhere, just aim for eternal peace. But actually, okay, how do we use the insights of mindfulness and having a little bit of a space between stimulus and response? What goes into that space? What do we do tactically? What are the strategies that we can use with this experience?
little bit more open perspective that we view the world to make us a bit more effective. And I think one of the questions that comes up a lot of the time when I look at your work is, why do you think that so many people feel like they're drifting through life? Like,
life happens to them rather than the other way around. Yeah. I mean, that's first off, you pointed out like one of the most important things in all of the meditation journey, which a lot of people never talk about, you know, it's, it's being aware of that space between stimulus and response and then knowing what to do and why you're doing something in that moment and what the changes are. I mean, that's really the name of the game, you know?
Speaking of to your question in terms of why people sort of end up in the situation that they're in in life is that whenever we're growing up, we're becoming adults, we're completely unaware. We're trying to figure out who we are, what we like.
how to live, how to be a human in the world. And ultimately what we're doing is we're just caught in this momentum of distraction, of a reaction. We're just reacting to everything in life. We're reacting to our parents. Then we go insert ourselves into a social situation. We start reacting to everything in school. We react to our teachers. And then when we become young adults, we start reacting to society, right? So we're not ever really
clear in the moment about what's going on. We're just simply kind of reacting to everything that's happening around us. And as that happens, we're
that the world around us in which we're reacting to, because we are not self-aware, we're not making intentional choices in the present moment, rather we're in this kind of autopilot, fight or flight mode to where we're just reacting, the world kind of forms around us. And all of those behavioral patterns, all those behavioral habits start to take this shape. And then we start relying on those patterns because they are working for us in terms, in the sense that they're just keeping us alive. They're keeping us going, right?
But what happens is that those patterns form so gradually
That we mistake those ways of thinking and those ways of being for what's quote unquote normal and for who we are. And ultimately what happens is we mistake that for what's possible. And so that's where people get really stuck, not being able to make the changes in their life that they want. It's because they mistake what has happened to happen in their life, the chance of everything that they've experienced, and then the autopilot reactions that they've made over those over the entire course of their experience of life.
with everything that is, of what is, of how things can be. And it's not until you increase that self-awareness and begin to see yourself from the outside in and the inside out that you begin to realize that, hold on a second,
I actually have say in the matter. Like life isn't happening to me. I can happen to life. And it's that switch of perspective that allows you to start making these intentional choices in the present moment, a lot of which are breaking the reactive behaviors that have developed over a long period of time. And that's really where meditation can be incredibly useful. And that space that you were talking about at the beginning comes into play.
Yeah, what do you mean when you talk about more being possible? How do we change our definition of what is possible, given that our knowledge is largely informed by the experiences that we've had in life? How do we step outside of ourselves? What does it even mean to do that? Yeah, well, it means that you have to ultimately change the negative limiting thinking habits that you're under.
Because you spend your whole life thinking a certain way. You have a certain mindset and ultimately you're identifying yourself with a certain language and with a certain story.
And that story is what holds you back because, you know, most of the things that we look at in life, you know, that one would want to achieve, they are very possible. Like the reason we want to do them a lot of times is because we see a lot of other people doing them. Like people could see you and like, here's a successful podcast or how did he do that? Well, you know, you're doing an amazing job, but there are a lot of successful podcasters out there.
You know what I mean? So it means that it's like it's available. It's out there. So what is preventing an individual that would want to do that from being able to go and do that? And that would be their mindset and the way that they think about themselves. Right. So ultimately how that plays out. And if you break that out into real life, a person would let's use you as the example. They say, I want to do what Chris is doing. Like I have the burning passion. I have the feeling that.
And then they feel the feeling arising that's pushing them forward, that makes them want to make an action. And then what happens is that they go right up to the precipice of going to make that action. And now they're on the edge of change. They're on the edge of where something is becoming possible. And this is where we're getting into your question really is like, so now what happens at that precipice? They have a negative thought that arises, right?
and it's generally like, what are you doing? Like, you can't do this. This is too complicated. Like not you, someone else, you know, this isn't for you. You can't do this. Or they'll come up with the, you know, the negative thoughts will go, well, you know, it's the market's too populated now. Whatever bullshit that it needs to come up with, we'll come up with. And then a person goes, oh, well, there's my quote unquote proof that I can't do that. And so I'll stop working and I won't try. Now, what's really interesting about that
is I spend a lot of time thinking about what that moment is, like what's actually happening there. And I wanted to drill down into that on a animalistic level, you know, like a biological and like evolutionary psychology. Let's look, feel that, right?
So in myself, even though I'm very good at bypassing that, and I've worked with it a lot just over my entire life of creating creative projects, because whenever you're making creative projects, the first thing, you know, the second you go to release something or put something out in the world that goes up times 10, right?
So I started like really sitting with that and I'm like, what's going on here? What is this process? Let's break this down so I can explain it to myself and to other people. And we can really figure out what's going on and hijack that, move that out of the way so we can actually take the action and do what we want to do in life.
So I started thinking about it. And as I sat with that feeling, anytime it arose in me, I realized that it is the same type of animal fear that you feel in like a fight or flight response. So if you go and you stand next to a river, you feel this feeling coming off this raging river.
It's like a magnet pushing against you. And it actually, you feel that the scariness, the, the, the, there's something kind of bigger than, you know, than you coming off of it. And generally people will take a few steps back without even thinking about it. Right. They'll realize after the fact that, Oh, I backed up from the edge of that river. It felt dangerous.
Same thing if you're looking over the edge of a building, you get this feeling that you can't explain. There's like this magnetic force pushing against you. You take a few steps back because you're like, oh, scary. So ultimately what that is, is that is your amygdala. That's your animal brain sending signals to you going, hey, this isn't safe. You're going to be vulnerable. Back up.
right? Because obviously it wants your body to survive. Now, if you get into a raging river, you're going to be very vulnerable. If you fall off the edge of a building, you're going to be very vulnerable. There's no more vulnerable state than falling off of the edge of a building, right? So if we look at that, we can see that that's basically our body trying to protect us from being vulnerable and dying. Now, if we map that over to a creative space or a space of personal growth,
whenever we go to move into the unknown in within the map of ourselves, the way that we think about ourselves, the way that we think about what's possible in our world, we go to move into the unknown, that same thing triggers, but the vulnerability is not the vulnerability of the physical world. It's the vulnerability of the ego and of our emotional world. So basically the,
If we were to go, and this gets a little complicated, but if we were to move into this space where we're like, you know what, I'm going to try, I'm going to get the account and start doing the podcast, I'm going to reach out to people. What happens is that we become vulnerable to the world.
And our body wants to protect us from that because if we feel vulnerable, then we start to not feel capable and we feel like we might be injured or become inoperative in some way. A really interesting element to it too is that our ego becomes vulnerable, not even through other people, but how we think about ourselves because we have this often inflated and distorted version of
like our sense of self in the world and what we're capable of. And a lot of us spend a lot of time going around going, I could do that shit without ever trying. But we like to tell ourselves a story of like, sure I could do that. I mean, I'm me, come on, I can do that. You know? Um,
But if that were to be challenged or put into question, we could verify whether or not we were actually capable. So the point is that this process is basically our animal brain trying to keep us safe and keep us in that quote-unquote known space because the unknown is where the possibility lives and where vulnerability lives. But the second we recognize and begin to learn that that's the process that's unfolding,
Whenever we find ourselves in those spaces, we slow down. And instead of just reacting to that feeling of fear, that feeling of resistance or whatever it is,
We understand the process. We see the arising thoughts of, hey, my mind is starting to tell me a story. It's starting to fill my head with all of these different reasons and all this proof of why I need to not try this. But all this is is not real. All this is is my body trying to keep me from being vulnerable.
And so as you recognize that, you can then set that aside and start taking action in the moment. It's about identifying the negative behavior or the negative thought habit that's arising, the story that your mind and body is trying to tell yourself to keep it from being vulnerable, and then breaking that pattern, breaking the momentum of that by basically exposing it with the truth, you know?
Let's use a more acute example than something that's a protracted project, like launching a blog or a YouTube channel or a podcast or something.
something that almost everybody is going to have to do at some point is talk to someone that they're nervous to talk to. Maybe this is a guy going up to a girl that he likes in a bar or at work ahead of being metooed, or it's a woman maybe needing to say no to a friend or a family member that's particularly pushy, or maybe she's really ballsy and she's going to go up and talk to a guy and she's worried about being rejected and breaking all of the sex stereotypes. Let's just use that as maybe like a
a petri dish for you to explain these steps
So, you know, you are here, there is a person over there, you notice them, this arises, what are you doing there? What is the way that we can reframe? Could you use something like that as an example to take us through this? Because I really, I love the idea of the philosophy behind this, but I know that you're very strategic and tactical. What I want is to be able to give people some real concrete steps that they can go to so that when that feeling arises and their neck gets hot and their shoulders get tight and their hearing starts to ring, that they can
That's where I go to. Yes, great. Absolutely. So first off, let's not even start in the bar. Let's start at home. Let's really start where the journey starts, because a lot of people will be sitting at home and they'll go, oh, man, I really like to meet somebody. I think I'll go out. And then that's whenever the negative start thing starts churning up. Right.
So this is actually something I talk about in the book is, you know, I start with some mental housecleaning, you know, all of these negative thinking habits that prevent us from making the growth and the changes that we want in our lives.
Ultimately, things like overthinking, self-fulfilling prophecies, imposter syndrome, making assumptions about reality, all these things. Once we can recognize those programs that are running, then we have some offense against them once you can define them and label them. This is one of the ones I talk about is self-fulfilling prophecies. First off, before we go to the bar, or wherever it is that we're going,
We're going to start telling ourselves a story then. So really what's going to happen, that's going to affect how we feel whenever we get there. So we're going to be sitting there. We're going to go, I want to go out. I want to meet somebody. Like, but I'm not that good looking. Look, I'm a bald 40 year old, you know, I don't know. And like, well, you know, but maybe I'll, maybe I'll try. Right. And so now you start, you start chewing this thing over in your mind.
So this right here is where we can start intervening. We can start disrupting the flow of our thinking habits and our patterns right now. Because what's going to happen is that if we start thinking like, ah, no one's going to like me, it's going to be awkward, it's going to be weird. That is what's going to happen.
Because you're thinking about this. And so, you know, what you're thinking influences how you feel and how you feel influences how you act and how you act influences who you are in the world.
So if you go into the situation, say then you go to the bar and you're thinking like, yeah, well, I'm glad I made it, but no one's going to talk to me. I don't know. I'm ugly. I suck. This sucks. Then you're going to be, as you mentioned earlier, you're going to be closed off. You're going to be tense. You're going to be awkward. You're not going to look at anyone in the eye. You're not going to be yourself. And so by...
allowing yourself to believe that story and not recognizing it as a lie then you're going to manifest and i don't mean the metaphysical way i mean just not in a literal way you're going to create that outcome because you're under the influence of that story right well the precise thing that you're fearing will happen is happening and you're making it happen exactly exactly just because you're not being yourself right so let's say that we start there and we go all right so i
All right. Where's the proof of this? Right? So I feel a little awkward. I feel like no one's going to like me, but I have no proof of this. I haven't been there yet. I don't know what the, what the energy is like, what the vibe like, or who's there. So let's just go and be present and open-minded and lean into curiosity about the moment, as opposed to a story about something negative that's going to happen. Some catastrophizing. So, um,
Continuing to go into curiosity with openness is really valuable because it allows you to, one, be more of yourself and see the world and what you experience in a very clear and fresh way, as opposed to one that is like had been shaved down by your own fear. Right. So if you get in there now, we're at the bar. Right. OK, cool. I made it. I'm looking around. And now you see someone that you want to go talk to.
But then that fear comes up again. So you start getting awkward. You start thinking negatively about yourself. And that whole script starts running again. Basically, it's a matter of repeating the same process. So you stop, zoom out, and look at the situation from outside of you. Like what's really happening? What's actually happening? You're just a guy standing in a bar. That's what's happening. Yeah.
Nothing like those are some low stakes. You're a guy standing in a bar, one of millions of people that are doing that in the very moment that you are doing it as well. Now you think, well, that person, I don't know. I'll go talk to them. Maybe they don't like me. Stop. Zoom out. Look at it from the outside. Where is the proof of that? Well, there isn't any. That's exactly right. There's no proof. You have no idea what the outcome is going to be.
All of the idea of this person is going to like me, that's all projection. It's all you creating, you know, manipulating your own perception and creating a story and then believing, deciding to believe that it's true and then having it influence your actions.
So by taking those moments, whenever you feel the fear in the body, whenever you feel the tension, when you feel the stress, it's using those alarms as reminders. And this is one of the things I like doing is like the quote unquote bad habits of the negative things, use them as positive reminders.
So whenever you feel the tension in the shoulders, they, oh yeah, that's my reminder to zoom out a little bit, relax, take some deep breaths and look at the situation from the outside. Let's look at reality, objectivity, as opposed to this weird little festering story that I have going on in my brain. So now,
Now you can look at the situation. I want to go talk to that person. And then you go, no, I'm not, uh, can't do that. Not good looking enough. You go, stop. There's no proof of that. Let's relax, calm down, take some breaths, relax the body again. Now you start to approach and now you're like, well, hold on a second. Now I'm feeling anxious again because what if, what if they turn me down? I'll feel like a dickhead and I'll feel embarrassed and I want to run out the fire escape. Right. Um,
Again, you stop and you go, look, let's zoom out. Let's look at this. There are no stakes here. You're just a guy that's going to go say maybe 10 dumb words to somebody and either what's going to happen? Either that person is going to go, it's great to meet you. Let's talk a little bit more. Or they're going to go, I'm actually here just with some friends. I don't really want to meet anyone right now. That's what you're worried about? It's not a big deal.
It's, you know what I mean? If you really look at it from the big picture and you catch all of those little, the, the story compounding over time, as you're approaching that situation, you see, it just doesn't matter. Right. And the beautiful part about doing that is that in, you know, in a person may go through that process of, okay,
watching their body, noticing the tension, relaxing, recognizing the story for a story, breaking that down and working that in gradual steps so that that becomes easier for them each time that they would say, go up and talk to someone in a bar. But the beautiful part about doing that once is that once you've done it once, then you see, you expose the illusion of it being a big deal. Once you do it once and if they say, do they want to talk to you or they do, either way, it's fine.
But after you've done it once, now you have a receipt. And this is where we can get into some beautiful self-trust and self-confidence building stuff. Because after you do that one thing, once you go, you know what? I actually, I did that and it wasn't a big deal. I'm still alive. You know what I mean? I wasn't like strung up by my feet in the town square and put on the internet and ridiculed. It was totally like nothing. It's all good. So then the next time comes around, you can do it again.
And you go, hey, I was able already to do that once. Let me check this out. I'll just do it one more time. It's no big deal. I wonder how many people go through life obsessing over a thing that they never do once.
Exactly, exactly. Everyone, man. It's because the story that they start believing turns into this huge, complicated, cosmically weighted thing that becomes scarier than reality. This is where you're saying that this sort of thought patterns and your previous experiences, or not even your previous experiences, your previous imagined experiences,
begin to form reality. They become more real than your reality. They define these new boundaries, despite the fact that these boundaries have never even been defined, set, or tested. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And so another good mantra to think about in terms of this is, this is something else I touched on in the book, is like,
We are so self-conscious. We always think the camera's on us, but really we are not that special to be honest with you. You know, like we all, people have this idea of this kind of main character syndrome is they're like, I'm the one, everyone's paying attention to me. Everyone's looking at me in this bar.
If I do something stupid, everyone's going to look at me. If I do something cool, everyone's going to look at me and celebrate me, you know, whatever. We just feel like the attention is on us all the time. And it makes sense not to go too deep into like a philosophical idea again, but it makes sense. It's because from our point of view, our consciousness is like this flashlight moving out of the front of our head and everywhere we look in the world, it seems as though the world is looking back at us.
you know? So like we look at people and like, they look at us, we look at a tree, like, oh, there's a tree I'm looking at. We feel like the world is looking at us because we are looking at the world, but we forget that it's just from the fact that our point of view is where it's at makes it seem like we are the center of all things. Like our head, our consciousness feels like the sun radiating light,
Well, one thing that I always think about is the asymmetry between what you see of your own thoughts and what you observe of other people's thoughts in the actions that they take. And it's 10 billion to one. Even the twin that you were born with that's your best friend, even the wife that you met when you were 16 and you've remained, even the mother that you've been so close to your entire life, no matter how well you know a person, the best you can ever hope for is some low-grade 1960s internet buzzword
bandwidth, like crackly CRT TV bullshit. Like that's the best if you see them every single second of the day, because the amount of information that you see of your own, the texture of your own mind as you vacillate back and forth between this thing and that thing and all that you get to everyone else looks like a rational, slick agent that's got their life together because you don't see the permanent sort of ping pong game that they had to go through in order to
pick that cup up off the table or put the cup down right that was it whereas you saw yourself like argue am i gonna pick it up i might not pick it up they're gonna think what if i pick it up by the handle like all of that happened and i think that it it can cause a kind of like sort of narcissistic solipsism uh that that that not only are we special but we're specially flawed yes
Yes. Anything to keep us enamored with ourselves ultimately, you know, and that's just another evolutionary tool. I believe it's like, as long as we're always focusing on ourselves, we'll continue to show food into the lowest hole in our head and trying to procreate. That's really what we're doing here, you know? Um, but yeah, no, you're totally right. I think about that all the time. And what's even crazier is that not only do we know, you know, less than 1% of what's actually going on inside of someone else's universe, like in their body and their mind, but
but we know less than 1% about what's going on within ourselves. Like you think you have a bunch of brilliant ideas and that you're this person. And again, this is another thing I offer in the book is like, write all that shit down, like write it all on a piece of paper, tuck it away. Like your most incredible theories, all the big ideas that you walk around thinking, all the things that you think about yourself, like write it all down, stick it in an envelope and come back and read it in a week.
It will be very enlightening. One, you go, you'll go, what the fuck was that talking about? Yeah. Well, like it's sort of short term psychosis is what like an emotional state feels like. Did a couple of my friends, uh, have journaled more aggressively than me. And, um,
They say that they go back and read some of the stuff that used to bother them. There's one in particular where I have a journal that I use for like big shit. It's make-ups and break-ups and I'm about to leave country or change career or do whatever. So there's maybe like a hundred entries across my entire life.
And one day I decided that the MC that rapped over the music in the second R&B room of the Saturday club night that we ran, he told me he was leaving to go to another night in a different city. But I was adamant that this was going to be the end of the business. And because...
the Asian society, they only went because he was wrapping upstairs. And then if, if Asian sock doesn't go, then that's going to be the beginning of the cascade. And I'm going to be homeless on the street and I'm going to have a gluten intolerance and live under a bridge. Like, you know, this, this huge fucking snowball. And it was to me salient enough to put in my fucking day one journal, like the most important stuff that's been in there. And, uh, back in the go, like,
What the fuck are you thinking? Like, why was that of all of the things that you could have had in your mind? But for that period, it was a big, big, big, big deal. Yeah, it's wild how, you know, we confuse our emotional response with the intellectual material moving across the stage of our mind many times.
So we have a feeling about something and our nervous system is reacting to it and whatever You know mental formations whatever thoughts may be pinging around our brain at the time get wrapped up in the emotional reaction And then those get supercharged with whatever it is that we're feeling and then what happens to you happens You know, um, I think to wrap up the the notion I was talking about in terms of like feeling self-conscious um, you know if you
consider the fact that we all feel like we are the center of the universe. And there's a saying that goes, you know, no one's ever thinking about you. They're always thinking about themselves. Now, like to add on to that, that, and even if they are thinking about you, they're thinking about how you relate to them, you know? So they're still thinking about themselves. They're just using you as this kind of interpersonal, uh, like U-turn. Um, so if we think about that for a moment, it's like, hold on a second. We're all background players, right?
Like there is no main character. We're all background characters. And that's a really freeing thing to consider. It's because if everyone is going around thinking about themselves, that means that we are even the most famous person you can think of. Like you're still thinking about how they relate to you.
you know i mean it's not about them it's about you you know even more so i think even the more attention that is on somebody the more it is about how does that person relate to me absolutely and so that's a very freeing concept because it means that whichever in that bar and you're like oh my god everyone in here is looking at me you go look we're all no one is looking at me no one cares no one gives a that there's some dude in here you know
Trying to chat with someone for 30 seconds. It doesn't matter. It's all good. And just remembering that is a great way to, I mean, some might hear that and go like, oh, well then, okay, now nothing matters. Everything falls apart. I'm going to turn to a nihilist, but that's, that's not what we're talking about here.
What we're talking about is just turning the volume down a little bit and just easing up the pressure on yourself, relaxing, remembering that you have some space in life. You can move around. You can do your thing. You're not under the microscope, and you don't have the spotlight syndrome on you all the time like it feels. The more that you start moving like that in life...
the more that you can start to trust that because one of you are just like, you know, I'm going to just like start giving a fuck about all this, this like fear that people are judging me all the time. And you just kind of relax in your skin a little bit and start doing what you want to do, paying attention to what, you know, what you want to focus on, not what other people are focused on. And you'll realize that like, not only does that feel good and it's true that people don't really care what you're doing, which allows you to do more of what you want to do.
But then ironically, when you start moving in that way, then other people do become interested in you. But from a positive perspective. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy in the other direction. Exactly. Exactly. What role does bravery have here? So I think that a lot of people think about bravery in terms of the world outside of them. You know, we think about it like I need to face this thing, right? There's a challenge in the landscape and I'm going to meet that challenge and overcome it.
I think about bravery in terms of the other direction. I think about bravery is being able to hear what is arising inside of you. What is the thought that's coming up? What is the feeling and the intuitions coming up that you know in your gut is going to make you happy, is going to be something that's going to become meaningful to you, that is the thing that is pulling you forward in life, not the thing that you're trying to force in life.
The more you can start listening to that voice and trusting that voice, as opposed to this big, complicated script that we're told we should care what other people are doing, care what other people think, care how other people are operating, care what other people find important, hit all of the beats of life that everyone says you're supposed to do this and you're supposed to do that. All of that stuff is total noise.
It's what will make a person feel alive, what will make a person build meaning is listening to that thing inside of them and being brave enough to trust it in the face of what's going on outside of them. I think a lot of people that listen to podcasts like this one,
that are unreasonably reasonable and they're not crazy and they're not angry. You know, they're thoughtful, they ruminate, they consider how to do things well. They want to do things well. And I think that there is a big battle between intellect and intuition.
And, you know, most people I think need tightening up, not loosening off. Most people need to be more thoughtful. They probably need to pay a little bit more attention to things. They probably need to not react quite so quickly. But there is a specific cohort, maybe quite a large cohort of people
all of whom are listening to this podcast, that could do with actually allowing that intuition to come through a little bit more, to give a little bit more faith to the voice that's inside of them and to not rationalize away, to not come up with a good justification. And if you're smart, then your rationalizations and your justifications are
pretty well walled off. They're very well fortressed and buttressed and they're strong and sturdy because you use your intellect to disregard, ah, you know, that little voice. It's just a little voice. Look at how powerful my intellect is. Look at the, you know, all of this cognitive horsepower that I can apply to this thing. Look at how well it served me when I was in university. Look at how well it served me when I'm at work. Look at how well it served me when mum got ill and I did that thing. And it really, really, I didn't act from intuition there.
But there's a time, I think, when that needs to learn to be turned off. And the problem is you have evidence that in the past, using your intellect made your life better. And you now need to give a different, a whole other wing of thinking
faith. You need to kind of have faith in that, a degree of faith and bravery. So how do you think about this sort of tension and this balance between intellect and intuition, between the rationalization and the little voice inside of you? Yeah, no, that's a great question. I mean, you know, and you're talking to someone who spent their entire life in the camp that you just described, you know, or most of their life. Really, whenever I drill down into it, what I see is, first off, the intellect is just a beautiful processing machine.
You know, that's really what it is, is it just processes data so wonderfully. And it is very useful, as you said. But it's not very magical. You know, it's not very, there's not a lot of whimsy in the intellect a lot of times. And people could hear that and they could come up with criticisms of that. But, you know, I would say to them, you know what I'm talking about. I would hope, you know. And so, like,
Ultimately, seeking balance, I think, is really valuable. We want to be a full spectrum human. You want to be able to have all the intellectual power to be able to understand and logicize and strategize and all these things. But you also want to be able to feel yourself. You want to feel your life. You want to be able to feel what's coming through in your life.
in your experience. And generally, people that are so high in logic and low emotion, they're very closed off to what they're feeling, right? Because like any system, these two things are sort of a shifting balance. Like you're either moving into a more intellectual and logical frame of mind, or you're moving to a more emotional mind. These two things generally don't overlap in intensity because they really can't. It's sort of like being, if you were like,
And laughing hysterically at something while being super sad at the same time, you would just look psychotic, right? Same type of thing. And so finding some balance in these two things is really important. And the main reason to me, I think that it's important is because, and I just speak from experience on this, is that whenever you are in this intellectualizing state all the time, ultimately what happens is you isolate yourself.
You isolate yourself from being able to really connect with other people, being able to connect and feel yourself in deeper things in the world because you come up with this self-proving idea.
system of thinking, which, as you said, doesn't have a lot of flexibility. It doesn't have a lot of growth. And ultimately it makes it to where you don't, you know, one of the keys is it, you don't allow yourself to be vulnerable to the world, to feelings, to other people. And in that vulnerability of our emotions comes connection.
And connection is a huge part of the human experience. And it took me about 40 years to really understand this and feel this. But only until we stop relying completely on hyper-intellectualization can we open up and expand and allow ourselves to connect with other people because it's that like,
It creates the space for us to have new information flow in, to have even new thoughts about ourselves and other people arise, to have new feelings arise. And someone who is always relying on intellectualization,
is probably trying to protect themselves from feeling those things because of some negative past experience. And generally, I find that people that are hyper-intellectual have had some sense of trauma from a pretty young age. And so they had to become hyper-independent.
and create a system in which they could not only defend themselves, but also teach themselves the world because they didn't have a parent, a father figure, something like that to teach them what they needed to learn. And so then you become reliant on that. And ironically, you then make your own intellect change
the father figure of the God figure, whatever symbol it needs to represent to you. And then it makes it to where you're fearful of disrespecting it and actually not minding it because you'll get in trouble by the God, you know, by this thing. And so create, so the ultimate to sum that up is,
being able to take the foot off the gas pedal a little bit and let a little space in there will allow you to be gently vulnerable to feeling, to new ways of thinking, to new ways of being in the world. And that being will create a new type of connection in your life. And that connection will broaden your human experience and make you kind of what I like to refer to as a more full spectrum human. Have you got any...
Practices or mantras or places that you go to when you notice that happening when you notice you pulling yourself away from feeling and intuition? Yes, what I do is and this is just me is I like to to slow down and to sit with whatever it is that I notice I'm feeling and I start treating it like a glass of wine or something and
I just go like, what, okay, what notes are these? What am I, I'm smelling this, I'm tasting this, I'm feeling this. And it's just gently kind of labeling what's arising without trying to judge it or shape it or anything and just listening to it, you know, because like those, the feelings that arise, that's information. Like we have that. And if you need to process this to your logic filter here, here's something for you to run through there real quick. Like,
Our bodies are designed with that functionality for a reason, right? Everything that's inside of us in our mind and our bodies, it's all evolved for a reason. And that's because our feeling and then ultimately also our intuition is trying to tell us something, if not about us, about the world. The fact is, is that it just speaks a different language than the intellect. But whenever you can hear the information and the wisdom in your feeling, it's
Outside of the language you're used to and if you're using for your intellect, you can learn this whole other dimension of life that exists. And it broadens your understanding and your awareness. And ultimately, it makes you a stronger and more rich and deep human being.
But really the practice and stepping into that experience is recognizing whenever you ultimately, it depends on where you're at. I would say starting at kind of the peak level, like recognizing whenever you're blocking something off.
Like we can feel it's like saying like the soul knows, you know, but the mind doesn't. You can feel that kind of dull, weird sense of feeling in yourself and your body. Maybe it manifests in like tension in your stomach or something like that. But you can feel that in the body. And if you recognize that, that's whenever you use your mindful awareness to slow down and just start listening.
And just go like, okay, what is this? I feel tension in the stomach. What is this? It's like, oh, it's, um, it feels like fear. It feels like, um, insufficiency. It feels like, uh, like, uh, unlovable mess or something like that. It feels like, what am I feeling? And then the more that you start just noting and like quickly labeling without overthinking, just intuitively labeling, uh,
these notes of feelings that are arising, then they'll start to expand. And that's where your really strong intellect comes into play. That's where you can reuse that thing that a person has cultivated over their entire life. Cause now that's the superpower and you can use that to work into this other place in yourself.
So if you are in a conversation with someone like a partners and like that, and for example, this is a classic, you know, move. It's like, let's say you start talking about finances or something like that. And you like, Oh, you get closed off. You feel tension. Maybe you feel a little like anxious or weird, or it might, you know,
might present as frustration, you know, but really, that's, there's a lot more than going on. So you notice, okay, why do I feel that way? Every time we talk about this, we touch on this topic, and you go into it, you just go, Okay, what is that? What is this feeling? It's like, I feel, actually, I feel anxious, I feel a little frustrated, I feel scared, I feel like I'm in trouble, like, what are all these, and the more that you kind of sit with that, and
allow it to unfold and use that strong intellect processing center to sift through and be able to label and identify and track back those feelings ultimately what will happen is you'll go oh i feel this way because my family struggled with money and my parents were like
emotionally abusive every time that the concept of money came up. And so now I'm scared that this is going to manifest in my relationship and I'm going to have the same problems and basically have a reenactment with my partner that I had whenever I was a child. I love the idea of treating a sort of wall of unobserved feelings like a glass of wine.
And, you know, like a, um, like a musical sound, you're an audio engineer. Um, and you go, that's, that's sound. You go, well, yeah, it's sound, but what is like, let's pick this apart. Oh, well, there's sort of that sort of low rumble. There's sort of this sub bass and that, oh, there's like some sort of high notes up there as well. Um, yet this idea of using, just giving yourself the mindfulness gap again, and, um,
allowing your intellect to be the superpower that you can deconstruct this thing with. What's the trigger, you know, for the non meditationally inducted that are listening, this thing arises. And I think that this is the point that some it's that zero to one, it's the never talking to the girl in the bar. It's the never noticing when you actually get carried away. How can people just be a little bit more deft and adept at doing that?
Yeah, I would say you just start paying attention, start paying attention more to, and you have to do anything and there's no real skill to learn. It's just notice where your focus is, start paying attention to that. And if you're in a social situation or whatever, and you're hanging out and normally maybe you start talking shit or something like that. And you realize like, I don't, that doesn't really feel good. I don't want to do that. Then you just kind of note it and you're like, all right, well, next time,
You'll just pay attention. And the more that you start doing that, it's kind of like your tongue going to a sore tooth in your mouth. Like it can't resist it. Your attention will start doing the same thing. So then you'll notice again, the next time that you start doing that behavior and you'll be like, Hmm, there it is again. You just notice while it's happening. Right? So it's just,
labeling the thing that you want to change and then start watching for it. And then as you start watching for it, then you will slowly over time notice that there's some space around those things. And that space is where you can start to take action. So it's really just paying attention more to what you're saying in the present moment, how you're acting in the present moment, noticing your reactions, right?
And as you focus more on those things, that awareness will start to expand more and more and more. And you'll see that you can actually apply intentional choice making in those moments as opposed to just repeating the autopilot behaviors again and again. What have you come to believe about imposter syndrome? I think a lot of people want to live boldly. That's a desire that they want in their life to take control, to do things. Where does imposter syndrome play a role here?
I think that imposter syndrome, if you are in a situation where you start feeling it, it's pretty simple. It's like you wouldn't be there if you weren't good enough. People don't invite you to go, you know, to be like, hey, let's I'm going to give you a raise and give you a promotion. And then you're like, oh, God, I don't I don't know if I can go, you know, hang with all these executives. It's like they didn't invite you by accident.
like they invite they brought you there because you belong there because you are capable because ultimately you probably were more impressive than the people that they have that's why they want to get you in there to try and add value and you can just map that on to any other area in life it's like whenever you're sitting around thinking like oh i'm here but i'm not good enough to hang it's like you were invited because you were good enough right um but if it's in a situation where you um are you've yet to enter that space again i would go back to
recognizing that imposter syndrome as just a narrative that's in your mind and looking for the proof. Where's the proof of this? Because, you know, our negative thoughts hate facts. They really hate facts because facts shatter and, you know, delusion ultimately. So that's what imposter syndrome is. It's just a delusion because it's something that hasn't happened yet.
You're thinking like, oh, I don't belong here. Well, you don't belong where? You're not there yet. So whenever you apply this notion of like, this is again, just this narrative that's arising for you, you can help. You can start releasing that and then actually taking the action to move into where it is that you want to go.
One of the strategies that a lot of people rely on, I think, in an effort to keep moving life forward, to feel like they're happening to life, is setting goals. Long-term goals, medium goals, 90-day sprints broken down to daily actions. Where do you stand on goal-setting and habits? Yeah, I think that both of those are huge. I mean, especially goal-setting is really good for people because...
And I would say setting attainable goals is really valuable because, you know,
One of the negative thinking habits that really haunts people is not being able to thinking that they can't achieve something. So they start like, I'm going to try meditating, you know, and they try for five minutes and then they never try it again. And they tell themselves the story like, oh, well, I guess I'm not someone that can meditate now where they say, I want to try and go to the gym and start working out and get in better shape. And they go one time and then they're like, well, that didn't work out or whatever. I didn't have a good time. So I'm not going to go back to the gym.
But really setting these attainable goals is a great way to evolve in any direction. So one, it helps you clearly define what it is that you want to achieve. And I think that that's really important because a lot of people have, as you said, they have a feeling that they want to live boldly. But I would say to that, like, well, what does that mean to you?
What does that look like? What does that look like in six months? What's that look like in a year? How are you going to live boldly? What will that feel like? What will you need to achieve to then reach that definition of your own success?
And so setting goals is really valuable because it clarifies what you're doing in life. It clarifies the direction that you're going and the path that you're making. But I think it's really important to make those goals easily attainable because you need consistency because everything that you want to, you know, if you want anything that you want to achieve comes through compound interest, everything is consistency plus time equals lasting change and results. And so for example,
If you're like, I want to learn how to meditate, you don't go. And this is what most people do is they go, they get really excited because again, the emotion influences the thinking. And so they go, all right, I'm going to go and be, I'm going to become the best meditator. I'm going to meditate two hours a day and I'm going to be levitating before Thursday, you know? And it's like, so what happens is they go, you know, for maybe three days in a row and then they basically spend all the energy, uh,
and don't get the results that they're looking for because they never really define the results they thought they were looking for in the first place. And then they go, oh, well, I guess that's, I'll get distracted and do something else. Now that didn't work. That didn't give me the shortcut to whatever success I thought that I wanted. The right way to do it would be like, I'm going to start for five minutes a day for, you know, let's say two weeks. And let's look at like, what is it that I want to achieve with this?
I want to feel less anxiety. I want to have a clearer mind, like be able to think more clearly. And I want to have, let's see, let's pick a good meditation benefits. I want to be able to sleep better.
So you could say, let's put those three things down. Those are the goals. That's what I'm moving towards. And now we'll meditate for five minutes a day for two weeks. And then you revisit that and you go, first off, it's easy because it's only five minutes a day. So you achieve the goal, which is really important. And then you can look and see if the action that you're taking is actually getting you to where you want, because, you know, the, the,
life is so such a moving target that we typically, we can have, you know, uh, outcome that we're looking for. And then week will go by and we'll completely forget what that outcome was and things will change. And then we'll go like, okay, what was I trying to do here? You know? So defining that's really good. But, um,
Being able to get there, you'll see that you've accomplished a thing and see if what you've done has actually met the outcome that you desired. And the really important thing about setting the 10 goals is that like we like feeling good. And so if you can do something simple for yourself that is easy to do, but do it consistently, you'll keep doing it. It feels like self-trust.
is a big part of this, this, uh, sort of need and to build momentum and, and to start off small. I think it's so true. People want to have the best outcomes that they can. They're maybe even a little bit embarrassed or ashamed about the fact, God, I knew that I should have started meditating. It was in my, it was in my new year's resolutions in 2019 that I was going to start meditating. I said, I was going to do it during COVID and I didn't do it
And now I'm going to start. And oh my God, I need to catch up. And how pitiful of me to have not only not started, but now to set such a low goal. I'm going to set a big goal. But there's so many places that high achievers find to castigate themselves for falling short. I think.
purposefully programming in something which is so difficult that the chance of you not doing it is quite high is you basically just racking up another l before you've even stepped out onto the field of play right right totally yeah and a lot in in that like the setting the crazy high goal that that's kind of like a different problem you know that's more of a motivation issue that's like um
And you can use that to your advantage, I would say. So like, you know, but these are macro and micro. So the micro is setting these small goals, right, over a long period of time. That's basically, you know, in my view, to get you into action because a lot of people are so sedentary or don't ever try at all. And so what you want to start doing is getting into a relationship
repetitive behavioral habit moving towards something. And so that's where the self-belief and self-trust comes in because you're, okay, I can do a thing consistently. I can get there. And then you start to believe in yourself. So that way, whenever you go to do something else, you can go, well, yeah, cool. I can change my diet as well because now I started going to the gym three times a week. That feels good. And that's possible. So I can change my diet. And then you do that and you're like,
Like, great, wait a second. I actually have some say in my life. Now I want to go do this thing. I can do that too. And you follow the same process. But if we want to talk about like reaching wild and crazy heights in life,
I think that, you know, that's the groundwork, these small consistent goals that we can use to build up the strength, to build up the dedication, to build up the clarity and the self-trust to then go for something really big. But we just follow the same process. But that setting that giant goal is basically like once you clearly define a big thing that you want in your life.
some, you know, some huge aspiration, you then, I always say like, think even bigger. So it's like dream as big as you can and then dream even bigger and then try and dream even bigger. Like, okay, now what's that look like? And really clearly define it for yourself.
And then go, okay, let's go towards that. Let's try and do that. And what's going to happen is, of course, that you're probably not going to actually reach that. But by looking that high, it's going to change your mindset so that the way that you approach all the steps in trying to get there will be a lot more aggressive and ambitious and serious than you would have if you were looking at something that seemed really small. Why do you think it is that anxiety is the perversity
pervasive emotion. It's the most in vogue of all of the emotions for the modern world. It's super hip, man. It's, I mean, it's a hot new girl in school. Yeah, it is. I think our nervous systems are just frazzled, man. We're fried. You know, it's like we have, not only do we have all this technological input that we're always done with all the time. It's like, you know, we're basically like air traffic controllers. We're just dealing with these notifications, like a million of them a day. And, yeah,
We've got notifications. We have the bits of information that our mind is like hopping in and out of constantly. So we're looking at our phone, we're looking at our email, we're looking at like the texture of the internet. It's basically our mind just like playing chess all day, like getting in this, getting out of that, getting in this, getting out of that. And so that's just bad. You know, that's a bad diet for our brains and our nervous system. Um,
But also I think that, you know, a philosophical part of it is that like humans aren't designed to have this level of like cultural and social and self-awareness, like in terms of like everything that's going on all the time. I think that it's sort of existentially overwhelming for people. You know, it's like if whenever people, if we look back at like someone is, they have a farm or something. Of course there's problems. There's things to think about, you know, life is never without suffering, but
but they were sort of just aware of their little, you know, five mile radius. And that was all they really had to worry about. But now, you know, you wake up and you, you, you look at the internet for two minutes and you're like, Oh,
okay, well, in the Philippines, there was an earthquake and, you know, in Round Rock, there was a mass shooting yesterday, which unfortunately was real. If you, there's a tsunami coming, there's this political shit going on. There's this happening. Oh, cool. There's a new bacteria, a flesh eating bacteria in Japan that's claimed three lives already, you know, better cancel my trip to Japan. Yeah. It's just like so much shit. And then you look at like the, the tension of social change and difference is always happening too. It's like everyone's like,
a lot of people struggle, I think, with like, well, like, who are we? What's happening in the world? You know, like how, how do I fit into this? Because everything is changing. And then of course it's being manipulated by, you know, a lot of different forces out there in the world as well. So I think it's just, it's really overwhelming for people on an existential level and it makes it difficult for them to understand sort of how they fit into the world. Does
There's this weird blend between short-term predictability and long-term unpredictability. I think, you know, we know what the weather's going to be tomorrow, but we have no idea what the economy is going to be like in a year's time. And the reverse was true ancestrally. We knew that really over sort of years, stuff was largely going to stay the same. We had no idea what was going to happen tomorrow. Maybe a tribe was going to come over. So you have this flipping. And I think the problem with that is we are given...
a sense of control, an illusion of control, because even if all hell broke loose tomorrow, I bet that Starbucks would still be open. I bet that you could still get, you know, some nightmare happens. Washington, D.C. gets hit with some, like, freak airplane accident or there's a bomb
attack of some kind. I bet that the Starbucks on South first street is still doing whatever spice latte is available right now. So you go, okay, so I have short-term predictability, but long-term turmoil. And this gives us the illusion. Why should be able to, I don't think we ever had that.
previously. I think that people were a lot more open to the vicissitudes of life coming and smashing them in the face. And a lot of it is expectations versus reality. And if your expectation is that things are going to be, well, you know, why, if my Amazon Prime delivery can be done by to the hour, I know when the toilet paper is going to arrive here, why is it that I can't X or Y or Z?
Yeah, totally. And not only you're so right about Starbucks and not only would it be, you know, open and operating, but they would have branded the disaster somehow like the post-apocalyptic pumpkin latte. Yeah, come get it. Just three packs of cigarettes or one, you know, one pound hunk of random meat, whatever you want to barter with, come on in, you know. Yeah, it's an interesting one. So you've spent a lot of time doing
all manner of rejuvenation practices. What do you think that most people get wrong when it comes to designing a routine for physical and mental relaxation and rejuvenation?
Yeah, I think that really getting too precious about it, man. I think that's the big thing that messes people up is like, because again, we're living in this ecosystem where there's like, okay, okay, what do I have to do? Okay, at 6am I have to wake up, I got to view sunlight and then I got to take a cold plunge and then I have to activate my heat shock proteins and I have to do this and this and this.
Like there's so much of that shot there is I think it makes it really overwhelming for people. And basically they get a bit of like there's this sort of signal to noise thing that's lost. Right. And so then they go to try and create their own routine and they're like, it becomes too complicated and too difficult. And then they get frustrated and they give up, you know? So I think really just keeping it basic and doing stuff also like looking at
And again, this goes back to kind of what I was talking about earlier that touch on the book is it's like, stop worrying so much about what all of these other people are telling you that you need to do to feel better. Like experiment, like figure out what works for you and what feels good to you and build your own routine out of that stuff.
Because not only does that actually get it to where you're interested in it, but then there's a sense of ownership and meaning that is built into your routine. And that means that you're actually going to be more likely to continue doing it, right? So, because if you look online and you're like, okay, well, this influencer says do these five things. This guy says these two things. This person says eat these things every day. I'll do all this stuff. It's not really an intrinsic type of motivation, you know? And I would say you should try some of that stuff.
And experiment with that, with what's offered because there's so much incredible information out there. But if some of it doesn't work for you, it doesn't matter. Like just use the shit, like don't worry about it. Don't try and force it into your routine because I know they say I have to view sunlight at 6am. I haven't been up at 6am in 10 years. I'm fine. You know?
It's like, I'm thriving. It's all good. Pick the shit that works for you and that speaks to you and actually that you feel results from and start calling that and building your own routine. I'm a huge fan of model eclecticism.
And that come, I would say, spiritually, health-wise, mentally, and by that, to define it as basically looking at all the information that's out there and then playing with it, messing with it, seeing how it feels for yourself, and then cherry-picking the pieces from all the different schools of thought that happen to speak to you, that feel good to you, that mean something, and then create your own school, your own path, your own version of the thing.
Parasympathetic non-monogamy. Well, you know, it is the rest and digest system, man. So, you know. That's true. New book is out now. What is something that you think people are going to gloss over in it? And from the people that have read it already, what is it?
that you wish that they didn't? Is there something in that is a really big element where it's maybe not as flash and sexy upfront, but you go, you really need to focus on this? Yeah. I think that one of my favorite things in there is I talk about this kind of magical thing that I realized and started noticing throughout my life. I wonder if people will read that section of the book and go like, oh, that's interesting.
but they might not really embody it and try it. And I'll talk about it here. So really quickly is I talk about this thing called portals and life. And these are these moments that I've experienced and I've noticed that have every step of the way where there's been a big advancement for me, whether it be personally or professionally or whatever it is, it's this weird culmination of things comes together and
And this opportunity starts to open and arise and you have to be watching for it. And it will seem weird. And if you're not watching for it, you'll miss it. But every time that I've been watching for that and I've noticed it and I've walked through it, it has changed kind of my universe as it were. Not literally, but, you know, well, I suppose literally, but symbolically.
And so what those are is, and I go, I share like kind of, I actually use Miles Davis, the jazz musician as an example for all of the portals that he walked through in his life. And I share some of mine, but really these big changes are,
happen every time and I look at other people and it's the same thing for them. And I love how we started this conversation. I don't know if we were recording or not, but you talked about how much you love kind of Zen koans and things like that. I love those too, because what are they? They are two often conflicting pieces of information.
intentionally. And it is by putting both of those things in your mind and reconciling them, that in the process of reconciling them, it makes you think of a third thought. And that third thought can only come through the computation of those two conflicting thoughts. And that's how wisdom often arises. That's why those work. That's why I love them. This happens in the same way. It's whenever there's one part of yourself that
that you understand to be valuable and you feel some sense of mastery in. Then there's another aspect of yourself that is valuable and you have some natural mastery in. Something outside of you will arise that will ask those two parts of self to join together. And you would never consider joining those two parts of your skill set or your personality.
But in the opportunity that arises when you join those two things together, it creates something new. It creates this feature within yourself that didn't exist before. And it opens up this whole different world of possibility for you. Like it just happens again and again and again. And I think it's the same principle as the koan. It's because for things to like cut in culture and to break through in life and in the world, they have to be new.
The problem is that people see the stuff that's out there. They try and look at the edge of the horizon and they go, well, I'll copy that and I'll try and kind of embody that and that'll be the thing. I'll get out there and I'll do whatever's trending. That doesn't work because you're already late. So the thing, the new quality that's being asked to be born out of these two elements of self is
It is new because there's not a template for it, not even within you yet until these things connect. So like as a few examples, I know this sounds rather ephemeral, a few examples of this, like whenever I was like starting my, whenever I used to be like I had my own audio engineering company for years before that, I thought I was going to be a composer.
And problem is I like really weird music and that's not a good way to make money. Actually, it ended up being one, but at the time it wasn't a good way to make money. And I was like, huh? Well, I don't know. But then my friends that were also making music, they started saying, Hey, uh, your music just sounds really good, man. Can you, I don't know what you're doing, but can you do that to mine? I'm like, yeah, sure. Cool.
then, you know, their friends would hear their thing and they'd go, man, that sounded really good. Do you think Corey, if I paid him a hundred dollars, you know, would he do that for mine? And this is, you know, when I was in my early twenties and I, and I have time, I was a hundred bucks to do what I'd like doing. Like, hell yeah. And he kind of dawned on me. This was one of those early portals was like, Oh, I want to do music professionally.
but my skill my skill set of being able to make like produce music really well those two things connect i hadn't thought of connecting those two things and actually moving into a music career as a producer as opposed to an artist like holy and when i realized that and the opportunities that were sort of arising around me i started doing them and then that turned into this big chunk of my life
This has happened with my podcast too, where it was like these type of conversations that we're having today. This is just what I sit around and talk to my friends about all this type of shit all the time.
And then I was on a mutual friend of ours podcast way back in the day, like over 10 years ago. His fans started hitting me up and being like, dude, you have to start a podcast. And I was like, huh? I was like, well, I guess I talk about, this is all I talk about my friends anyway. And I have a studio full of audio equipment and I know how to produce stuff.
Maybe I should put those two things together and then boom. And it just keeps happening again and again and again. So that's one of the things that it's a really interesting thing. I hope people will read and enjoy that. And I hope they'll start looking for those kind of cosmic winks in their own life. It's like lifestyle alchemy in a way, taking individual elements and sort of spinning them up into something which is really useful.
Yeah, yes, absolutely. Corey Allen, ladies and gentlemen. Corey, I really appreciate you, man. Let's bring this one into land. Where should people go? They want to keep up to date with everything that's going on. Yeah, thanks, man. I really appreciate you having me. People can go over to HeyCoreyAllen is all my social handles. And if they go to BraveNewYouBook.com, they can check out the book. And also, of course,
uh if you want to go to my website you want to take a look around see what's going on there this guy meditations there's the release into now course that you mentioned um that's just corey.shon.com hell yeah corey i appreciate you man thank you thank you man