Harris Trolls Defensive Trump In Debate
33:14 Share

Church's original recipe is back. You can never go wrong with original. Still tastes the same like back in the day. Right now get two pieces of chicken starting at only $2.99 or ten pieces starting at only $10.99. Church's. Offer valid at participating locations. So you know normally I try to you know drink a little bit of coffee or something before these late night podcasts maybe a diet coke but uh I honestly um

I don't think I need it. You're just on a natural high. I don't think I need it. That's that you espresso? That's that me espresso. That debate was me espresso. It was like a punch in the face. I don't know. I had a cup of coffee.

Hello and welcome to this late night post-presidential debate edition of the FiveThirtyEight Politics podcast. I'm Galen Druk. We're recording about quarter past 11 p.m. on the East Coast after the first presidential debate between Trump and Harris. We thought it might be the only. It still may be, although as soon as the debate ended, the Harris campaign proposed

a second debate with former President Trump. Perhaps that's some indication of how they think they performed. We will get into it. But for starters, it was a pretty fiery debate. It lasted about 90 minutes. They covered all kinds of policy issues. They started with the economy. Trump quickly started talking about immigration. They also talked about tariffs, AI, tax

tech, abortion, the border bill, and deportations, as well as crime and safety. They also talked about January 6th. They talked about Israel, Ukraine, Afghanistan, health care, climate change. A lot came up. And we're going to talk about how the candidates performed. And here with me to do that is senior researcher Mary Radcliffe. Welcome to the podcast, Mary. Good evening, Galen. Also here with us is senior elections analyst Nathaniel Rakich. Welcome, Nathaniel.

Good evening, Galen. And ABC politics reporter from the spin room in Philadelphia, Brittany Shepard. Welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the spin zone, guys. Okay, Bill O'Reilly. Oh, that's the no spin zone. Never mind. I forgot. Brittany, I know you have some very important news that I want you to break right here on air right now.

right now. I'm going to turn it over to you. There was a key endorsement made that you have been tracking for some time now. What's in?

Just moments ago, Childish Cat Lady herself, Taylor Swift, has endorsed the Harris-Walls ticket. And that's how she signed the endorsement. Signed, like, your favorite Childish Cat Lady, Taylor Swift. Which is something that people have been waiting for. The timing is speculated. It's going to be a little bit closer to an Heiress Tour date. Is Kamala Harrison going to come out on stage? I don't know if that happened. It was the moment the debate was over, Trinidad, to launch this endorsement.

I have no inside knowledge of these things, but I think the campaign understands that a lot of the impact or potential impact of a debate on the polls and national perception is about the narrative that forms after the fact. And so, for example, proposing a second debate as soon as you are done with the first debate or organizing perhaps a Taylor Swift endorsement at the conclusion of the first debate is probably part of the plan. So we'll pull back the curtain a little bit on that and not just pretend it came after

out of nowhere. But let's talk about that narrative that may be forming. I've been pulling some headlines from some of the major news outlets to see how they're processing it. But before we get to that, Mary, what's your top line takeaway from the debate? So Kamala Harris clearly came in with a plan to try to bait Trump with

intended, I think, to needle his sensitive points. And she did that pretty successfully, I think, throughout the night. Donald Trump kept asking for additional rebuttals to little things. She talked about his rally size and things like that.

So to that extent, I think she did extremely well in executing that plan. And Donald Trump did what you might expect Donald Trump to do in those circumstances, which is he rambled on and was defensive and said a lot of words. He had more speaking time than Harris throughout the debate. I think the precise numbers there, Mary, thanks to The New York Times, which has been tracking it, was 43 minutes for Trump versus all

almost 38 minutes for Harris. And they also tracked time spent attacking. And although Harris spoke less, she spent more time, 17 and a half minutes versus 13 minutes on the attack. Yeah. And the other thing I was going to say is, you know, Harris really executed on this particular plan of needling Trump. But I did feel like

A lot of her answers were pretty vague in terms of specifics, right? You know, instead of talking about what her housing policy was, she simply said, I have a housing policy and then moved on to something else. So I don't know if that's going to have an impact on the voters that we're saying. You know, we talked about in the podcast yesterday, voters saying they wanted to hear more about Harris's plans and policies. I'm not sure if this debate did that for her.

Yeah, that's an interesting question, Mary. We talked about how Trump's approval rating has been relatively stable in the low 40s for quite a long time. Now, at some of his worst moments, we have seen those numbers drop off.

but only to rebound. And there's over a month and a half left in this campaign. So even if Americans didn't like what they saw in some of Trump's combativeness or defensiveness, he does have time to recover. But it does seem like there is a lot more volatility or malleability in Americans' perceptions of Harris. And she didn't do quite as much to maybe define herself as a

the moderate on the economy or immigration or things where she might've been seen as vulnerable. Like she addressed the immigration portion by saying there was a border bill that I supported that Donald Trump killed, but you probably could have gotten pretty specific there about, you know,

what she wanted to do on the wall or whether she thought that the asylum system was broken or things that maybe could have painted her as more of the moderate on the issue where, of course, Trump was trying to, I think, said out now, you know, San Francisco liberal, something along those lines. So if it was about defining Trump, she probably did a good job

a good job. If it was about defining herself, maybe that's in question. Although I'm curious to hear from Nathaniel and Brittany whether or not you agree with that. I don't think that is necessarily wrong overall, but it would push back a little bit. I think, you know, she mentioned a couple of times how she like grew up in a middle class family and stuff like that and gave a little bit of biographical information. She kind of made everything

efforts to, I guess this isn't really about defining herself, but she like really kind of consciously reached across the aisle or at least across whatever it was by being like, you know, basically like if the things you're hearing, you know, if this is just like kind of the same old politics, you know, like Donald Trump, like negativity, there's a place for you in our campaign, that sort of thing. So I think she did a good job with regard to that. I hear what you're saying though about like, you know, maybe she didn't go into as many specifics as she could have done. You know, her answer on

The question of like, why have you changed your position since 2019? You know, I think she still doesn't have a great answer there. Similar to the CNN interview, she kind of, you know, she pivoted and it was a fine answer, but she doesn't really have like a direct rebuttal to that. Because I think, frankly, like I was running for president in the Democratic primary at a time when people were very liberal isn't an acceptable answer. But even Nathaniel, to that end,

Trump kept saying you want to defund the police. The answer would have been as a vice president, we increased funding to the police. But there was just nothing really said there. Right. So areas where you could have sort of zigged towards the center or whatever, towards covering your ground on a vulnerable issue, you didn't hear as much.

I think on some – yeah, there were a few pitches she let go by, but I think there were others that she swung at and made decent contact at on immigration and stuff like that. So I don't know if I – I think, sure, to the extent that this debate was mostly about going in, voters were most interested in hearing about Harris and that the election might hinge on perceptions of Harris. I think this debate ended up being very much about Trump, and I agree completely.

with that part of it. But I still think, you know, like at the end of the day. I'm sorry, guys. I don't mean to interrupt you. Donald Trump just walked behind me here, clearly trying to define his. If you can see, he's right over my left shoulder. He just walked on to our set. Yeah, he is right here talking to Mark.

Rubio. I can even try to bring my camera up to show you. Can you ask him if he wants to be on the podcast? You know what? That's my second question I was going to ask him first about Taylor Swift and then. But yes, there's Donald Trump right behind me. I don't even want to. I didn't mean to interrupt you in the panel, but it kind of clearly. No, no, it's totally. That is interrupt worthy. Not to be the vibes person, but clearly he.

obviously thinks he has something to speak for himself. He's about to walk over to my left to about 100 reporters, about 1000 in the room. And this gaggle, I don't think I have to go stand on a chair actually to get a sense of how many people are actually even here. If you guys can bear with me for a second. This is my vantage point for the whole thing. I've never seen a gaggle this big before. And I covered the Trump White House for all four years.

A hundred, two hundred, hundreds of reporters are running towards him. Wow. He's trying to define the debate in his own terms. I think we're about to see live on our air any minute now what he's going to say. But clearly he is here and Harris is not. And I'm sure he is going to be making a statement about that split screen. Well, that's not that wasn't expected. Right. That kind of says something. No, this is it.

No, no, this is a total surprise. This is a total shock and surprise to why I'm standing on a chair. Yeah, that seems like a position of a candidate who feels like they need to say more to recapture the narrative. So that's interesting. And it is interesting to the point that we've made about this debate being about Trump.

You know, we have sparse data in a moment like this, but I have been tracking Google Trends data on searches for Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. And we actually saw higher peaks in terms of search interest for Kamala Harris than for Donald Trump. So if you are trying to regain control of the narrative, maybe it's because Harris sort of has the wind at her back and

at the moment. There were various different moments that Harris was most searched versus Trump. I mean, Trump's one of Trump's highest peak actually related to Victor Orban. And if you look at overall search volume on Google over the past four hours, number one is Kamala Harris. So she at least sparked interest in herself. The debate sparked interest in her.

The next thing on Google Trends right now is Victor Orban. I mean, quite remarkable the amount of times that Donald Trump said Victor Orban's name, who is...

an authoritarian head of state for Hungary, not somebody that the mainstream Republican or Democrat looks favorably on. But to give somebody like that so much airtime is indicative of the fact that Trump was not

I mean, we talk about whether or not Harris was positioning herself in a way that could shed any concerns about her being too far left. I mean, Donald Trump.

was overwhelmingly speaking to an audience that is already familiar with the kinds of narratives that get repeated on conservative media. I mean, talking about eating pets or, you know, lauding Victor Orban. Yeah, I kept a list of just like

Right wing memes that Trump was talking about throughout the debate. I have Springfield, Ohio, Aurora, Colorado, bacon busing people to rallies. I hadn't even heard anything about that. Quote, she wants to do transgender surgeries on illegal aliens in prison. Something about a Nancy Pelosi, January 6th tape, some Victor Orban. What else I got?

The mayor of Moscow's wife? The mayor of Moscow's wife. That was my drink. That was the shot that I took. And I mean, I think, you know, this is what I was talking about before. When you see Trump taking the bait, when Harris needles at him, he goes to these talking points that you have to be pretty well versed in mega media to understand what he's talking about in a lot of these cases. Right. I think it was, Galen, I was talking to you during the debate. Like, I think like Trump turned in what like

Could charitably be described as like a base first performance, like maybe to his the type of person who goes to his rallies, the type of people who follows him on truth social or whatever. It sounded OK. And he was certainly giving a lot of red meat and saying kind of a lot of the same grievance fueled stuff that he has been saying for many years and like to that type of voter. Yeah.

you know, maybe it sounded good, but like he was not reaching it out at all beyond that like conservative media bubble, which obviously is a problem when you're trying to win a majority of voters or a majority of voters in certain states. Whereas I do think, like I said before, Harris was kind of in some time, a couple of points, like explicitly saying like, hey, if this sounds crazy to you, come over to me. So in that sense, I think, you know, it was a missed opportunity for Trump to say the least. Which is why I think

Oh, sorry, guys. I think this is why you're hearing people scream over me. He's trying to redefine the narrative right now. I was trying to get a sense to figure out what he was saying. It's almost impossible to hear him even from our vantage point. But I would just like to say it's like he's so aware, let's put it that way, of how important that Monday quarterback is, right? And how much that second and third day narrative is going to be and how Harris came up. Just to answer your question from the beginning, Galen,

Was Hera successful in defining all of her policies? No. But I think there was a success in defining who she is as a potential commander-in-chief, right? Unflappable, unable to get under her skin, even if she's not producing the most viral moments, she's able to

Yeah, and to the point that Nathaniel just made about welcoming people to the room.

people into the Democratic tent. Never in my life as a high schooler during the Iraq war did I ever think I would hear a Democrat in a debate say, I have the endorsement of former Vice President of the United States Dick Cheney, and then not say, oh, there are many things that we disagree on, but on this we agree. It was just

I have the endorsement of Dick Cheney, full stop. There was no qualification. And Liz Cheney, of course, she mentioned as well. There was no qualification of, you know, we have our differences. It was just and I think it was more towards the January 6th democracy part of the conversation.

the conversation, a pitch to Republicans as well. Mary? I was just going to say to Nathaniel's point about this being really from Trump, a base first debate. The Washington Post was running a little focus group of 24 swing voters during the debate, asking them to respond to some of the things the candidates said and so on. And they just posted that of their 24, 22 out of 24 said Harris performed better.

A little anecdata. Yeah, exactly. It's always tricky for us on these immediately after debate reaction podcasts because obviously we are the data analysts. And at this point, we have so little data and it does feel like we're only slightly better than the giant CNN panels. Yeah.

At least we're slightly better. That is exactly right. We have a little bit of data. We have knowledge about how data has worked historically, right? And that kind of thing. But anyway, it will be interesting. Obviously, we'll be watching closely the polls that will presumably start dropping in the morning about who performed better. And we'll have an article on the site about that as soon as we have enough polls to write about it.

I wouldn't be surprised, like my guess based on having seen this debate and how past debates have worked out is that most people will say that Harris won. I won't be surprised if it's like narrower than maybe like the narrative quote unquote has it because obviously like Trump has a significantly sized base and like a good share of those people will probably think that he won even maybe more than like, obviously normally you're always going to be like, oh yeah, my party's candidate won. But like a lot of those voters might genuinely think he won because he was speaking their language.

Yeah, I think that's right. I think, you know, in the post-debate polling, one thing I'll really be watching out for is not just the margin between the two candidates, but Trump's vote share specifically, because we know that Trump has a certain percentage of the population that is going to vote for him. So if we see his vote share drop a lot, I would expect that's more due to differential non-response than to real shifts in opinion, and it would be pretty fleeting. Yeah.

Today's podcast is brought to you by Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, or OCI. AI might be the most important new computer technology ever. It's storming every industry and literally billions of dollars are being invested. So buckle up. The problem is that AI needs a lot of speed and processing power. So how do you compete with costs spiraling out of control? It's time to upgrade to the next generation of the cloud, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, or OCI.

OCI is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds. It offers one consistent price instead of variable regional pricing. And of course, nobody does data better than Oracle. So now you can train your AI models at twice the speed and less than half the cost of other clouds.

If you want to do more and spend less, like companies Uber, 8x8, and Databricks Mosaic, take a free test drive of OCI at oracle.com slash 538. That's oracle.com slash 538. The numbers, not the letters. oracle.com slash 538.

Today's podcast is brought to you by GiveWell. You're a details person. You want to understand how things really work. So when you're giving to charity, you should look at GiveWell, an independent resource for rigorous, transparent research about great giving opportunities whose website will leave even the most detail-oriented reader

Busy. GiveWell has now spent over 17 years researching charitable organizations and only directs funding to a few of the highest impact opportunities they've found. Over 100,000 donors have used GiveWell to donate more than 2 billion dollars.

Rigorous evidence suggests that these donations will save over 200,000 lives and improve the lives of millions more. GiveWell wants as many donors as possible to make informed decisions about high-impact giving. You can find all their research and recommendations on their site for free, and you can make tax-deductible donations to their recommended funds or charities, and GiveWell doesn't take a cut.

Again, that's givewell.org to donate or find out more.

So, Brittany, I know that we have made you answering this question difficult by asking you to jump right on this podcast with us as soon as the debate ended. But what are you hearing in the spin room about how the surrogates are trying to...

spin the performances of the two candidates. Well, I mean, I just heard from Donald Trump, who is right behind us again, trying to claim that he won obviously so hard to qualify because he was able to prove that this administration has made a mockery. The economy is so bad. I think a lot of it is stuff you've been hearing from the base this entire time.

arguments that are not new, I really think, at all. I think they're unable to point to really any one moment for her where she flubbed. She didn't call anybody the wrong name. She didn't fault her. I mean, look at her performance versus Joe Biden. Of course, the bar is tectonic, right?

But, you know, and so they're not able to say, well, look how bad of a job he did and she is made in his mirror image. They're playing Freebird. It's all the classics. Right. And you from what I could get bits and pieces, Trump was trying to replay the same thing. And I mean, it helped. And Kamala Harris even said something that I forgot, that she's a gun owner. Yeah. You know, she's like kind of throwing out these things, talking about median voter. Right. Like say, hey, Tim Walz is a hunter and a gun owner. And guess what? You didn't know this about me. So am I.

Right. So he can't even come out and say the NRA voted him and, you know, and she's so horrible for gun owners. Right. So she really, I think, preempted a lot of the incoming. Of course, she knew it was going to happen because she knows what the playbook is. Yeah. Maybe trying to pivot back to the issues that they know are the most important to Americans, like the

the economy and immigration. The moment that you brought up about gun ownership, Brittany, was funny. I know you weren't quoting directly, but basically, Lindsay Davis asked a question about health care. And Harris said, thanks for the question. I want to follow up on something that was just said about whether we would take people's guns away. Both Governor Walz and I own guns and then sort of

moved on. I thought for a second that that might be news, but she had talked about owning a gun previously. We mentioned that we don't have a ton of data in this moment, but our producers have been very diligently tracking the mentions of different words throughout the night. And so I do want to cite some of that data, which is that the economy was mentioned 20 times, which is it's it's towards the top.

It's the topic that they started off with. And it was something that Harris did tend to come back to when she said, Trump isn't talking about things that are important to you. I want to build a middle class opportunity economy. A distinction with the first debate

debate between Trump and Biden is abortion. So abortion was mentioned a total of one time during the first debate. And I think that was used as evidence that Biden was incapable of sort of pivoting the conversation towards Democrats' strengths.

Whereas this time around, it was mentioned eight times, either abortion or reproductive care. And I think Harris's response to that question where she detailed the circumstances under which somebody might need an abortion were one of the most stark moments of the debate.

Yeah, I mean, I think that abortion exchange coming so early in the night and I think really establishing the tone was really what...

kind of grabbed my attention. Like, I think she had some of her strongest lines. She's clearly more comfortable talking about it than Biden was. And like, you mentioned this, Mary, in some of our internal Slack chats is that like Trump wouldn't let it go. Like, this is not a topic that Donald Trump should want to be talking about. It's literally of all we at ABC News and Ipsos asked a question like on like 11 different issues, would who do you trust more, Harris or Trump on 11 different issues?

Abortion was the issue that had the biggest gap in favor of Democrats. And so that is an issue that Trump should want to move on from as quickly as possible. But he kept on bringing it back up and like doubling down and like defended the Supreme Court, which is also not popular. And it was just a very bad strategic move.

decision from him. So I thought that was a really bad exchange for Trump and kind of set the tone of him being on the defensive throughout the rest of the night. I think related to that, Galen, what I thought you were going to say about that first debate with respect to the economy was that you saw a very disciplined Trump in that first

debate where he kept on bringing everything back to either the economy or immigration. And this time around, he was kind of taking the punches and like reacting rather than being in control of the narrative and pivoting things around. And I think that is kind of maybe the one biggest difference between these two debates, although that sounds silly because I think the one biggest difference between the two debates was that Joe Biden wasn't there being extremely incoherent. But

Anyway. Which was, I know we mentioned this in the beginning, but which was Kamala Harris' campaign's goal? And I will say, I think we will have a CNN poll probably as soon as tomorrow morning. So I am really curious with those stat poll results, because I feel like it might be really interesting to see if they have anything on women. I mean, Donald Trump knows that he lost the last election from no small part because he lost suburban women, and I'm sure we can get into all the numbers there. But as the vibes lady, I thought that he would go

go out of his way and his campaign would go out of his way to make a point of a thing they've quote unquote done for women. Maybe mention Nikki Haley said an endorsement. You know, Nikki Haley said just a couple of days ago, don't talk about Kamala Harris personally, what she looks like, her form, her fashion. I'm curious what women for him, like if I'm looking to my left, I see Stephen Miller spinning, right?

Not exactly the Trump campaign's strongest surrogate talking about what women in the suburbs might want to hear. But I'm looking around at Democratic surrogates. Governor Lou Han Grisham is right in front of me talking about abortion. They have the former group of pro-choice NARAL. They have all these reproductive groups, you know, spinning on the floor for Harris. Well, Democrats have the opposite issue. They got to win men. Yeah, young men. Yeah, men are the real swing voters, right? I think women, especially suburban women, are pretty blue these days, but...

Yeah. Yeah. And the last time we checked in on crosstabs in polling, this was looking like it might be a historic gender gap to rival 2016. So we'll have to see if either campaign can really turn that around. But yeah, I think you're absolutely right that...

Harris has been significantly overperforming with women. You know, Nathaniel, you were saying something about, you know, he kept coming back to this abortion issue. And actually, I think he did that with everything, right? Like, he seems to have last word syndrome. He can't let anything go without being the last word on the topic. And I think that really worked to his detriment tonight. Yeah, it was interesting that he took the opportunity to ask for rebuttals far more frequently than Harris did, right?

And to your point, Nathaniel, as well, about how Trump was disciplined in the first debate and able to gear everything towards his strengths on the question of the border. There were 15 mentions tonight. It was one of the most mentioned issue, but that's only half.

half of the mentions of the first debate when it was mentioned 32 times. And so he did keep coming back to it, but he was still less... He had less opportunity to keep steering the conversation in the direction that he wanted it to go in. So...

This is the fun part of the evening where I am going to read you some of the headlines, the early headlines that are emerging from the debate. And you get to tell me who's done the best job describing it. Okay. So number one, the New York Times, Harris puts Trump on defensive in fierce debate.

Number two, Fox. Tune in full analysis after Harrison Trump trade barbs in high stakes debate. CNN Harris baits Trump in contentious debate. BBC Trump and Harris clash on key issues in fiery presidential debate. A lot of these are quite similar. Newsmax Harris Trump go on attack over inflation, abortion, borders and more.

These are all pretty similar. Although I do have, I've got one for you from the drudge report. The night Trump lost it all. Yeah.

That's a little bold. Uh-oh. That's a bad use of headline right there. Like, debates are not won or elections are not won and lost in debates. Like, this could be forgotten in a week. The election is eight weeks away. Well, ask Joe Biden. I mean, he might not win it. That's fair. You might certainly lose your job. I guess that's fair. But, um...

True game changers are extremely rare. And like the campaign, you know, it was to to paraphrase Nathan Gonzalez, friend of the podcast. This election was extremely close before this debate, and it will be completely extremely close after this debate. Well, not if you listen to Breitbart. Breitbart says soundbite tsunami. Harris unloads barrage of canned lines. Soundbite tsunami. I do like that. That's kind of a new one to me. I never really heard that before.

Nice alliteration there. I do think she did have, there were a couple of lines that she had that I thought were quite effective, but were also obviously like things that she had rehearsed. Like the, you're fired one, the American people. 81 million Americans fired you. Yeah. That was a great line. She did that one in the mirror a bunch of times.

It's no Donald Duck. We're going to call you Donald Duck. Not to bring back a vintage, but... Was that Hillary Clinton or was that Joe Biden? That was Chris Christie. That was Chris Christie. That was Chris Christie calling out Trump for not coming to the primary debate stage. He's going to, you know, dodge the debate so much we're going to call him Donald Duck. And we have from MSNBC, Harris's forceful attacks put an angry Trump on defensive.

That's a pretty good one. They're all kind of madly to the same thing. Yeah, you know, I see. Yeah, I think we get the point here, right? Is the media broadly correct? Have they correctly summarized how this debate went? Well, you know, we're part of the media, so I don't know. That's how I would summarize it. But I think we need to wait and see how the American people reacted. Quite frankly, call me quaint.

I mean, we don't matter in the face of the 100, somewhere between 150 and 160 million of Americans who will cast a ballot this fall. Folks, it is all about you. It is not about us. And with that, any final words on the evening? I am sure we left some things out.

I am curious if Donald Trump will do a second debate. Now, we know Harris has made the proposal she had and Trump has floated certain dates. You remember that Mar-a-Lago conference when he floated a couple of dates?

I wonder what this means for him or if this is his one and done. He showed up to the spin room and he's made his mark and see you in November. Yes. You have to imagine that his advisors would not be champing at the bit to make

Yeah, you never know. He kind of goes, you know, he's a rogue, a rogue wolf, a lone wolf in this pack that we call political life. Yeah, that's the question. Whatever his advisors say, will he listen to them? I guess I would just say that, like, the format of the debate worked well with, like, the muted mics and everything. I think, you know, it was, as the headline said, you know, it was...

kind of fiery and interesting throughout, um, you know, despite, you know, lasting almost two hours. I guess, I guess like, you know, an hour 45, but, uh, I wasn't bored, um, which has not always been the case, uh, with, uh, with political debates, um, particularly primary debates, but, um, yeah, so I think it was a pretty crisp, uh, and, and good engaging debate and hopefully the American people felt the same way. And with that folks, now it is up to you. Oh,

Thank you, Mary, Brittany, and Nathaniel for joining me on this late night podcast. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having us. Thanks, Galen. Glad to be here.

My name is Galen Droog. Our producers are Shane McKeon and Cameron Trotavian, and our intern is Jayla Everett. You can get in touch by emailing us at podcasts at 538.com. You can also, of course, tweet at us with any questions or comments. If you're a fan of the show, leave us a rating or a review in the Apple Podcast Store or tell someone about us. Thanks for listening, and we will see you soon. ♪