For Realness Sake with Kieara Pittman
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What's good? It's Colleen Witt and Eating While Broke is back for season three. Brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeart Radio. We're serving up some real stories and life lessons from people like Van Lathan, DC Youngfly, Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, and many more.

They're sharing the dishes that got them through their struggles and the wisdom they gained along the way. We're cooking up something special. So tune in every Thursday. Listen to Eating While Broke on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by State Farm. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Yo, it's Big Bank. Check out my podcast, Prospective with Bank, on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Each and every Monday, Prospective with Bank podcasts will feature individuals, all walks of life, who come together to share their unique perspective and engage in enlightened conversation. This podcast will explore all types of conversations from everyday people, your favorite celebrities. Every Monday, listen to Prospective with Bank on Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple

God can't bless who you pretend to be or who you compare yourself to. He can only bless you and the lane that was created for you. I feel that for somebody. You don't need no edge entity. You need boundaries. What? I don't need your likes. I don't need your validation. All I need is a God fighting for me that says all things.

Oh, my God.

Okay, so maybe all isn't right, but it is when we're hanging out together. And I love that we have this time to just come and connect. This podcast episode gonna be one of your fave. Today's gonna be super dope because I get to kick it with my girl, Kiara Pittman, a fellow podcaster and recent Thanksgiving chef killer, okay?

because she killed it last year in the kitchen for the very first time. We had an incredible time. She's already my bestie in my head, but I guess we can share her because this is a sisterhood or whatever. Here we go. Kiara, I have been told that you throw down in the kitchen and you throw down when it comes to laying edges. Is it true or is it false? I need to know. Just tell me. Do you cook or was this like, I don't usually cook and I'm cooking for Thanksgiving? I cook not...

So randomly, I cook randomly. So it's like a combination of all the things that I learned how to cook over the years. Yeah. What did you enjoy the most that you cooked for Thanksgiving? I would say, okay, I don't bake. Okay. So I made a pound cake for the first time, a lemon pound cake. And it was really good. I was so proud. It was scratch. I had the flour all over my apron. I was like, you know what?

It was worth it. I'm somebody. That's how I be feeling when I do something. I'm like, I'm really somebody out here.

That's all I felt like. Wow. Y'all really let me cook a whole Thanksgiving dinner. Thanks. Thank you. I might be doing it. Well, thank you for doing this podcast with me. I did some throwing down in the kitchen last week as well, but this is not about me. It's about you. Okay. But my fellow co-laborer in the kitchen, thank you for doing this podcast with me. What made you want to be a co-host? I listen to your podcast all the time. I found you...

maybe during the height of the pandemic, I joined your Women Evolve, the virtual Women Evolve event, and I just fell in love with it. And I was like, oh my gosh, she has a podcast. So I started listening to the podcast and I listened to Girl Get Up, which I probably listened to that several times. And I just thought, why not? Why not join you? Because you're already a friend in my head. Come on, girl. Okay, well, then we're gonna

have a good time because I'm looking forward to getting to know you better. I have a few show notes, so I know a little bit of your business, but I'm going to hope to get even more in your business during the podcast. Just so you know, this is going to air the second week of January. It'll air January 12th. So if I talk about 2022, that's why, because that's when our listeners will be plugged into it.

Okay. Okay. So Kiera, I have a question for you. Last year in 2021, a woman went viral for using Gorilla Glue for her ponytail. I'm asking you this because you seem like you know a thing or two about hair. Have you ever had a hair tragedy? Like something that you were so glad did not end up on Instagram? And what was it? Because now it's going to end up on Instagram.

Oh my gosh, I have so many hair tragedies. I'm natural. So trying to figure out the twist out, the wash and go. I think culturally I skipped that part when they were having a class about learning how to twist hair, braid hair. I must have been asleep that day because I've tried to do twist outs. I've tried to use all the products.

and I definitely went to sleep thinking I was gonna be you know super curly girl and woke up looking like somebody somebody daddy okay I know it didn't work let me tell you that reminds me um I got a crochet weave before crochet weaves that look as good as they look now because you know crochet

crochet weaves are really not new. People have been crochet weaving for a long time. And I got one and it was a bad idea. It just was not a good idea. And I had it for a red carpet event. And then they put a hat on top of it and it was just all

bad. If you see pictures of me from this event, which I never post, you can just tell on my face that something has broken me down on the inside. But when I got home, I just started cutting it because I didn't know how to take it off. So now I have cornrow braids and little fuzz pieces of hair standing up. So when you said somebody's daddy, I

I remember looking like someone's patriarch, okay, when it came to a crochet weave. You're not alone is what I want you to know. This is a safe space. I feel so seen. I have a question, okay, because you're married, right?

Yes. How did you, did you, was it a thing? Like when you have those moments as a woman where it's like, Hey, for a minute, I'm not going to look like the woman who was on the first date. As a matter of fact, I'm about to look like your homeboy. Like, have you gotten to a stage in your marriage where you don't mind those moments where you look like your husband's homeboy or like, how does that work? Yes, I am.

I frequent that stage often. That's just what it is. We work from home now. So, you know, I can't always be on all the time. But I had the pleasure of being with my husband for 11 years. We dated very young. So he's seen me basically as a child, you know, and up until now. So, yeah.

he's been we've been through a lot he's seen all the stages um that's a blessing i'm i obviously my husband sees me without my wig on and it ain't nothing but queenly tip foot braids up underneath this wig but i am a little sensitive about like when i take it off like if he saw me like if i go into the bathroom and yank it off and then he calls me into the room i i because the way you just saw me and who i am now

I just I'd be like, I just stick my head out like that. Kim Kardashian, me like this. So, you know, I'm back to me. So that's that's funny. You guys have been together for 11 years. What is that like? Like growing up with someone? I think everyone wants to have like the whole, you know, we were together from childhood story, but not many people get it. What is that like? It is. It's different, especially now because I don't get the.

A lot of my friends are still unmarried. And so when they talk about like the dating scene, I'm like, wait, what is it? It's a Tinder. Y'all fishing on a website. What's going on? And so I'm just totally out of the loop when it comes to that. So sometimes I feel out of place sometimes.

when they talk about dating. But on the flip side, I love being with the same person. We had to grow separately. I think that's something that people don't really think about when you are with someone for a long time. You're not the same person that you were, you know, when you're 18 as when you're 30. And so it was a journey to get to this place. But I think I got to really grow with my best friend. That is amazing. Do you ever...

feel like or maybe early on like did you ever feel like you missed out on something like because I feel like that is something that people battle with when they get married young you know like did you do you do you wish that Jasmine Sullivan could have had some lyrics about you in her latest album or do you like how do you overcome those feelings?

Yeah, absolutely. I definitely felt like I missed out. That was a whole section of our relationship. We actually dated long distance for five years because I was in the military and he was in college doing his thing. And so during that time, I was like, you know what?

Do I really need to be with this man? You know, I'm over here. He's over there. And it was challenging to kind of keep the relationship going. So I think that for the majority of that time that we spent apart, it was me trying to figure out, do I want to be long term with this? You know, him doing the same thing. We ended up breaking up for a little bit of time just because we were trying to figure it out.

But I guess it worked out in the end. But I still, in my mind, I got a hotel or two. Come on now. It's made up. It's imaginary. Imaginary hotels matter too. Or not. I don't know. It's up to you. You decide on your own. I'm going to keep it. I'm with my sis, Jazz, at the end of the day. Yes.

2022, we've got new year, new me, new year, same me. What are you on for 2022? What are some of your goals and your visions?

So many goals. I think the main thing is new year consistently because I will start something and, you know, get really excited about it. And the next thing you know, I've moved on to something else. And so I'm trying to be super consistent in life because we can't just continue to just be all the things. I got to be consistent with something. And so one of my goals is to just try my best to just,

create my brand, keep my brand flowing and be everything for myself first before I start being all the things for everyone else. This show is brought to you by BetterHelp.

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I love that. And I think that when you talk about brand building, I believe that that's where so many women find themselves, especially at the top of the year, right? We want to really become more intentional about those goals. What birthed your brand? Like what I know that there's like maybe this end result you have in mind, but when did you come to a place where you decided like, I am more than just a person. I have a brand that I want to build.

Ooh, okay. Well, I would say my brand is about sisterhood. I have a podcast too. It's called For Realness Sake. And it really came out of a need for myself.

I had a dream one night and, um, I, okay. Let me back up. Hold on. So I learned about podcasts like 2018 and I had no idea what they were prior to that. And I was like, Oh, podcast sound cool. So I started listening to one random podcast.

and I was like, okay, I like this. I went to sleep, had a dream, um, and God gave me the name for realness sake. And I was like, Oh, I woke up in the middle of the night and I was like, okay, I got a name for my podcast. And so I just kept kind of kept going with that. Um, and so I, the reason why I created it is because I needed a safe space to be able to talk. I

I'm one of those women who couldn't find my voice for a long time. I was whoever anybody wanted me to be. So if that was it wanted me to be the funny girl, I was a funny girl. Wanted me to be, you know, the critical girl was that I had so many masks on.

And when I realized that none of those things were really me, I needed a space to be able to just share who I actually was. And that's how For On The Sick was created. And all the women who I spoke with, they talk about, you know, sisterhood. They talk about their mental health. They talk about...

And relationship failures and successes, we just kind of talk and have girl chat. And it's been so amazing and so freeing for me and for them. Man, Kiera, that is so good what you talked about. Basically, just being whoever you needed to be for the room that you were in.

And I know that I can relate to that because at the end of the day, I was transforming myself to avoid rejection. When someone is constantly shape-shifting, it's not that they just enjoy being a different person depending on who they're connected to. We're trying to avoid rejection. And so I wonder, when was that idea of trying to avoid rejection birthed inside of you? Like when did you first experience some rejection and then want to avoid it?

So funny that you asked that because I was bullied in the ninth grade. And that was like my first sort of experience with bullying because prior to that, I was in a private school for like the first or no, two.

Like the third through the eighth grade, I was in a private school. And so my first real experience in a public school with all the folks was in the ninth grade. And this one girl just really took a disliking to me, I suppose.

And she just really laid it on me. I had never experienced anything like that. It was the first time I think that I had questioned my looks, my character, my clothes. And so from then I was like, oh, I must be doing something wrong. And so that when the bullying went on for about a year and she ended up transferring, thank God. I don't know where she at now, but I still think that it's on site. God hasn't...

So I do think that if I see her, it may be on site. But so from that, I had to kind of just change who I was or I felt like I had to. And so I was laughing at the jokes. I was, you know, being supportive. I was doing anything so that people didn't have to see me because I felt like me was wrong. And yeah,

I lost myself. - Okay, so I wanna talk about bullying because I feel like in the culture of my family, I won't make it a black culture thing. I'll talk about the culture of my family, at least amongst my siblings, right?

Like, I feel like bullying was kind of something that we like was we were just joking with each other, like playing with each other. And I feel like the culture of bullying within some family relationships can make a person feel rejected, especially in those formative years. Can we talk about how important it is that we see bullying?

rejection, those forms of rejection, even if they're layered in humor as bullying and also connected us to how that can affect our self-esteem and how we show up in the world. And I want to ask you that because I know you're a therapist. And so I'm hoping that you can help us kind of unwind some of these things.

Yeah, I think, of course, the first experiences that you have as a child really do shape how you become as an adult. It's your core feelings, your core values. I usually like to relate those feelings to, I don't know if you ever saw that movie, Inside Out. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and how, you know, the little girl, she was able to, you know, see her family value and her friends and the things that she really held dear. Yeah.

And so likewise, it's like that for us where when we get to experience rejection, even from my family, it's like instead of joking about it or laughing, it's almost taken super personally. Like, what does that mean about me? You know, and maybe if you didn't think that something was wrong with you for me, I never thought that I had any like crazy looking features or anything like that. But once, you know, it was pointed out by other people, I was like, oh, well,

Maybe I do. So now I find myself looking in the mirror trying to make sure that this looks right. And I think the same can be said for kids, whether in a joking way or not. I mean, I'm black. You know, I come from a culture of that, too, where we talk about each other all the time. It's a term of it's a form of endearment. It's love. Right. In a sense. But everybody doesn't joke the same. Yeah. And so I think for parents or, you know, closer families to be mindful of that, because it's

It sounds funny in the beginning or, you know, but they could take it a little bit deeper and it could hurt. Words do hurt. I did a podcast with a woman who talked about how her uncle used to just like call her ugly, like, hey, ugly, hey, ugly. And he was like he wasn't trying to call her ugly, but that is what she received. And so she grew up thinking that she was ugly. It is possible to have bullying in your family, right?

But that bullying is masquerading as joking. It's masquerading as that's just what we do. That's just a part of our culture. But then we have people who are taking those jokes. They're taking those cultural moments back home and changing the way they see themselves. How do we undo the labels that have been unfairly and abusively placed on us from family members?

Hmm. That's, that's a good question. I think what I've done, I really didn't get a lot of that from my family, but I have clients who have experienced that. And what I always say first is to acknowledge that it is a feeling for you because a lot of times people would try to dismiss that thought or that feeling or, Oh, that's just my family or, Oh, they didn't mean it. Or I know it was a joke or,

But really, it hurts. So first, let's give the feeling a word. Let's acknowledge it. And once we do that, we need to put an emotional boundary there because I don't want this to hurt me the same anymore. And so while I'm healing, let's not have that sort of connection when it comes to me talking to you about my feelings or when it comes to sort of expressing my hurt to you, because right now I don't know if you're a space to hear me. Right. Right.

And so I think that's always a good place to start. And then once they kind of break down their own feeling process of what, how it hurt and what happened, then maybe they can communicate with their family member if they feel like it's necessary then.

That is so good because at the top of the year, so many of us are wondering, how do I change myself and change the way that I interact with the world around me? And you used a word that I don't think I've ever heard before, but that emotional boundary. Of course, I've heard boundaries, but specifically emotional boundary. What is an emotional boundary and how do you create it?

Ooh, okay. So emotional boundaries, I think are my specialty now because I've had to create so many of them, but I think at its core, it's just,

I think a lot of hurt that we experience comes from the expectation from the other person, right? And so it's not always that what they did hurt you. It's that the expectation was for them to do something different. And that hurt because you thought they were going to do something different than what they've always done. And so you essentially hurt your own feelings.

And so what I think the emotional boundary comes in is saying that I'm not going to allow this person to have control over my emotion or how I see them or how I want them to be, my expectations of them.

And so while you're healing, it's important to put a block there because when you're as you know, when you heal, you're kind of all over the place. Once you learn something new in therapy or when talking to your friends, you're like, you know, let me call them and tell them how they hurt my feelings or what they did to me. And it's like, no, because you're in a space of feeling, but maybe they're not.

And so putting that boundary there allows you the time to heal without feeling like you owe them an explanation or continuing to hold them to an expectation that they can and may never meet.

So, Kiera, you're telling me that my healing doesn't require an announcement because if we're honest, low key, some of us are healing for the sake of an announcement. I want to heal so that I can go back and tell you, look at me, I heal. And what you did to me didn't really hurt me and look at me thriving. But you're telling me that if I'm going to heal, it needs to be for the sake of healing alone and not to prove anything to anyone. And I don't like that.

Ooh, I'm sorry. I gotta tell you though, because that's what it's about. And I also want to say let's not make healing our only identity because we are so much more than that. Like when people are healing, it's like, oh,

I'm just trying to fix myself. But in the midst of fixing yourself, in the midst of healing, you're still a person. You still are allowed to love. You're still allowed to, you know, self-care, still allowed to be out with people. So just kind of embrace healing as a part of your journey and not your entire journey.

Well, if you wanted to read us for filth, you could have just said that. Because like, listen, we can do one thing at a time. And now you're telling us we can do all of these things. And I feel empowered and seen at the same time. What made you want to become a therapist and you specialize in addiction? What made you choose that particular path?

So I don't specialize in addiction, but that was my first introduction to being a therapist. So what had happened was I didn't even know I wanted to be a therapist.

I was in the military at the time and I was trying to get to Jacksonville because, like I said, my husband and I were long distance for like five years. And so I was trying to get to Jacksonville. He was going to be able to transfer there and it was going to be great.

And so the only way that I could transfer to Jacksonville is if I went special programs in the military, which was addictions counseling. And so it was like this long, drawn out process, like 10 weeks, put you in a mind of like a sped up master's course. And so I didn't know anything about therapy before that.

And they put me through the ringer. They, you know, caught me out. They told me I was fake. They said I need to take my mask off because I'm not going to help anybody until I help myself. Oh, yeah, they read me down. They read me down.

And through that, I learned so much about myself. I ended up being able to go to Jacksonville. I did addictions counseling for three years. And in the midst of that, I got my bachelor's degree in human services. And then I realized that I don't have to do this in the military for my whole life. There's other options for me.

And so I saw that some of my supervisors had master's degree in social work and they were, you know, therapists and things. And so I took a leap of faith.

I applied to one school. I got into that school, USF in Tampa. I got out the military. I did the program. I didn't want to do therapy. When I got there, I was like, oh, I'm just going to do hospice because God called me to the old people. So I'm just going to help them on their journey to heaven. And that's what I'm going to do. And in the midst of that, pivoted again. And I started doing therapy. I went to a bereavement clinic.

internship. And I was like, oh, okay, I like this. And long story short, I graduated, got my first clinical outpatient therapy job and here I am. It seems like what you did out of

convenience slash necessity for making your relationship work actually turned into purpose for you, which is really encouraging because a lot of people feel like everything in my life is kind of random right now. Will I ever discover purpose? And yet we miss the reality that purpose is hidden in the very now

the very present that we're living in now, just because you don't know what your purpose is now, it doesn't mean that your purpose isn't present in your life. You just follow the breadcrumbs to what is available, what is important, what does matter and purpose. You have an encounter with purpose from there. That's what happened with you seems like. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. I did not know what I wanted to do. I didn't think I could do anything. I was, you know, I joined the military because it was easy, not because I thought that, you know, I wanted to serve my country or anything like that. Sorry to say, but it's the truth. It was just something to do. And through that, I learned so much about who I was and really who I wasn't in that process. And yeah, it got me here.

I'm always glad when there's a therapist on the show because when we have advice questions, I no longer feel responsible for saying the right thing. And anything I say wrong, you can clean up. So...

If I give you terrible advice, whoever sent this question, you know, Kiara's going to fix it. I'm going to go first so Kiara can fix anything that I say. So here's our question. It says, hey, TT, hey, which I am auntie status now and I'm learning to embrace it. It's my truth. Okay. So,

So, chow. Okay. I'm 23 and I can admit that I have trust issues along with abandonment issues. I always feel like I can't trust nobody and I do mean nobody with my feelings, with my vulnerability or with any personal information. And I feel like that is hindering me with a relationship. And yeah, no.

That makes me super lonely because I'm usually the go-to friend for everyone, but I don't have anyone I can go to when I need someone. And I get it. I'm not a good communicator as well. But how do you think I should navigate this? I hate to feel needy and alone, but it's really hard for me to be vulnerable and open up. Anyway, I love you. I'll call you TT in my head. Well, hey, niece, listen.

You've said a lot here and because Kiera is here to fix anything I say, I'm going to shoot my shot and then I'm going to turn you over to the good doc. Okay. Um,

Okay. So you said, I always feel like I can't trust nobody with my feelings and that it is hindering me in a relationship, which I have to tell you, relationships thrive off of vulnerability and intimacy. So you're right. It is hindering you from having the very relationships that you need.

You said that you don't want to feel alone and needy. And I want you to know that as a human, you were not meant to do life alone. To feel like you need someone else's support, someone's love, someone's encouragement, those are all natural things that you should have had access to.

Now, maybe you didn't have them when you were growing up. And because you didn't have them growing up, now you have tried to teach yourself and coach yourself that you no longer need them. And I'm telling you that the story that you're telling yourself is not true. You do need to have connection. You do need to have valuable relationships. And you do need a safe space where you can practice vulnerability. So my suggestion to you is that you should practice vulnerability within yourself.

that the first place, the first person who's going to hold your heart, hold your feelings, hold your emotions, it's you. And so to begin to dig into your own emotions, it's so funny. I was just having this conversation about feelings. I have a feelings wheel. When I'm feeling something, I'm like, what is this? It feels foreign. I go to my feelings wheel and then I mark it. I'm like,

okay, this is what happiness feels like. This is what sadness feels like. This is what grief feels like. And those are just like the big words. It's all kinds of emotional vocabulary words that I am yet being exposed to. This is what optimism feels like. This is what gratitude feels like. Girl, it's words out here to help us with these feelings. And I'm going to need you to tap into them because you cannot express to anyone what you do not first...

comprehend for yourself. So tap into your own feelings, your own emotions, practice them, get to know yourself so that you know what you're offering someone else. And there may be people in your life who you can open up to, but you can't open up to them unless you have opened

up. So practice with you, allow it to overflow into safe spaces that can honor those feelings and emotions. Everyone's not meant to hold them. But once you do have someone, allow there to be a beautiful exchange instead of you just being the one that's holding everyone up. Anything I fix, care is about to fix. So here you go.

I think that was perfect. Honestly, I mean, you said everything. Vulnerability definitely starts with you. You cannot expect for anybody else to hold your feelings to a higher standard than what you hold them for yourself, right? A lot of times I think people will say things like, oh, well, it doesn't matter. Well, if you don't think it matters, then, you know, why should I? And so I think you said it perfectly.

Learn yourself, know yourself, give yourself that space. What you said about no one will have the ability to hold your emotions to a standard that you don't hold them to is like a sermon unto itself because a lot of times we're like, why don't you care about my feelings? It's like, why don't you care about your feelings? If you

cared about your feelings and started making some decisions to no longer feel this way and creating boundaries to make sure that you're not in this position, then someone would get a revelation by how you show up for yourself. And that's a word we want people. Let me tell you something. I'm talking to somebody. Who are you? You want someone to come in and care more about your feelings than you care about them to get to make them

feel valid, to make you feel safe, to make you feel protected. And that is once again, handing over your identity, your being into someone else's care and then being upset when they fail you. But if you set the tone, the only thing that someone else can do is start to learn to dance to this rhythm or get off the dance floor. Okay. That was for free. I don't know who you are. Okay.

I love that. Yes. Either on it or get off the dance floor. Okay, here we are. This is my rhythm. Kier, before we close out, do you have anything for me? Any questions I can answer? Any, you know, thing that I can talk to you about with my life for the new year?

Man, I honestly, I'm just happy to be here. I put in this email to you as a just, you know, thought. I was like, let me just go ahead and email Pastor Sarah and let's see, you know, what happens. And just the fact that I'm sitting here with you is all the confirmation that I need for myself. And I just I love everything that you do. I don't want to cry because I'm a crier, but I'm so grateful to be here.

Don't cry because I'm not emotionally mature enough to handle when people cry. That's not my thing. Kiera. I will cry. Oh, are you a crier? I am a crier, but I will cry, keep moving. It's natural for me.

and use the bathroom all at the same time. It's all good. I love it. Kiera, let me tell you something. I love what you're doing for other women. I love the safe spaces that you are creating. I love that so many of the Woman Evolved listeners are now going to become For Realness Sake listeners because they've been exposed to what you're doing. So thank you for answering your call and saying yes and for spending this time with me. I really enjoyed you. Thank you so much. Take care. You too. Bye. Bye.

I knew it. Kiara, you are so, so dope. I could just tell that we were going to have an incredible time. Sis, thanks so much for kicking it with me today and sharing your wisdom. Delegation, she kept the seat warm for you. And now it's on you to be my next co-host.

send us an email to podcast at womanevolved.com. You can also submit advice questions to that email and I'll try my best to suppress my inner Eve and allow my inner Mary to answer your questions. Okay, this was fun. Let's do it again next week. Same time y'all with that and the week after that and the one after that, you see what I'm saying. See y'all next week.

What's good? It's Colleen Witt and Eating While Broke is back for season three. Brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeart Radio. We're serving up some real stories and life lessons from people like Van Lathan, DC Youngfly, Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, and many more.

They're sharing the dishes that got them through their struggles and the wisdom they gained along the way. We're cooking up something special, so tune in every Thursday. Listen to Eating While Broke on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by State Farm. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Yo, it's Big Bank. Check out my podcast, Perspective with Bank, on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Each and every Monday, Perspective with Bank podcasts will feature individuals, all walks of life, who come together to share their unique perspective and engage in enlightened conversation. This podcast will explore all type of conversations from everyday people, your favorite celebrities. Every Monday, listen to Perspective with Bank on Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple

Presented by AT&T. Connecting changes everything.

Hi, I'm Katie Lowes. And I'm Guillermo Diaz. And we're the hosts of Unpacking the Toolbox, the Scandal Rewatch podcast where we're talking about all the best moments of the show. Mesmerizing. But also, we get to hang out with all of our old Scandal friends like Bellamy Young, Scott Foley, Tony Goldwyn, Debbie Allen, Kerry Washington. Well, suit up, gladiators. Grab your big old glass of wine and prepare yourselves for an even more behind-the-scenes Scandal.

stories with Unpacking the Toolbox. Listen to Unpacking the Toolbox on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.