Permission to Feel w/ Brittany Broaddus-Smith
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It's not enough to want to stop cussing because it's inappropriate, because it makes other people uncomfortable. You need a conviction. We don't want to buy cleaning your mouth out with soap, but we may need someone to remind you every now and then, like, this ain't who you say you want to be. For women of faith, our sexual script is that sex is dirty, sex is not what we talk about, but also when you get home, act like you know. Ignore it, ignore it, ignore it all the way up until your honeymoon, and then swing from the chandeliers.

What's up, family? It's your girl, SJR, back at it on the ones and twos. What it be like? What's going on in your world? I am currently...

Probably sleep. If I see myself in the future and I see myself sleep, let me tell you why I'm probably sleep. Because on the day that this airs, I would have returned from Ghana. We are taking a trip to experience the country and to just learn more about the culture. I'm excited about, well, excited, that feels like a wrong, that doesn't feel appropriate. But we're going to go see the slave castles and

And beyond that, just experience more about what's happening on the economic side, the creative side, the artistic side. My husband's speaking a couple of places, but I am literally just going to experience it. And

we are able to take our youngest daughter. So I'm hopeful that I will be able to share with you a few things about my experience and my time there. So I look forward to unpacking that with you. Since we last spoke, I have...

Oh my goodness. My husband had his conference, his leadership conference. I think I told you all about that and how it was going to be my first time really speaking as a leader. And it was funny, per usual, as I am at the end of the school year, my school year, the kids' school year, succession, business, transitions, and et cetera, I was pretty tired. And so my husband was like, do you want me to interview you instead of you speaking? But I was like, no, I'm

There are some things that I feel like the Lord has just put in my spirit about leadership that I wanted to share with those who were going to be there. And we had a really great talk. My husband has a podcast. It's called The Called Leaders Podcast by Trey Roberts. And he actually put up...

My session. So if you want to check that out, you can. I'm going to give you a few cliff notes, though. Part of the reason why I struggled with speaking as a leader is because I really don't consider myself a leader ever since my ministry started. It was kind of like, listen, you know, I'm a leader.

I'm trying to get to the same Jesus you're trying to get to. I'm trying to be transformed in maybe a different way, but in the same way that you're trying to be transformed. And I would rather invite you into this journey than to come off as someone who knows any and everything. And I feel like much of my life has been me sharing what the Lord is teaching me about different things. And I don't necessarily feel like a leader in the way of

that I have come to define it as it relates to, you know, motivating and guiding people towards any specific direction. And as I was like talking to the Lord about this, because I obviously, I guess I am a leader as well. So like, Lord, what do we do with this? Um,

hard posture that I have. And for me, I think it comes down to servant leadership, where I really do feel like I am serving a vision that God has given me and my job is to lead the vision. And as a part of leading the vision, there are people connected to it, right? So I am leading people, but I am primarily leading a vision. And so with

conference, with themes, with even the culture of our team environment for our team at Woman Evolve. It's like, I have to have a vision. And so I unpack that and I feel like it was helpful. So if you're like me and maybe you're a little demure, a little shy, a little like, I'm just one of the girls I'd rather be in the background. I don't feel like I can really lead. I want to challenge you in the way that the Lord has challenged me to think about

leading from a heart posture of leading a vision. Lord, give me a vision that I can lead my life with, a vision of who I am to be. The first thing that happened to me when I was leaving out of my toxic relationship, it's not necessarily that I just had the strength to walk away. I came to a point where I started envisioning who I could be on the other side of that relationship, which is a word because so often when

We spend time thinking about putting creativity and imagination towards how an unhealthy relationship can become healthy. But there's something to be said about putting energy and creativity into what can health look like for me outside of this relationship. Instead of me putting all of my hopes and dreams into this relationship, give me a vision, Lord, for what a healed whole version of myself can look like. And when I began to do that, then that was a vision that I could leave.

And so whenever I am feeling like I am without direction or that I don't necessarily know what my next move is going to be, I don't ask God to make me do something, make me be productive, give me passion, give me passion. I ask God for a vision. Because if God gives me a vision, the vision is going to have

life in it. The vision is going to have excitement and passion and strategy and creativity and innovation and people connected to the vision. And so if you are a leader and you're just leading people without a vision, I would challenge that. I think

you got to have a vision for those people. The Lord, when God was creating the heavens and earth, he had a vision. When he created man and woman, he had a vision. This is the vision. This is how I see you. And this is what I want you to step into. And I'm not sure that any of us can lead our lives, lead our children, lead our businesses, lead our ministries, lead our creativity without a vision. So that's a little snippet, but the full thing is on the called leaders podcast hosted by Trey Roberts. And I hope you will check it out.

Let's get into this week's Mind Your Business question. Hi, Pastor Sarah Jakes-Rodgers. My name is Dr. Ruth. And although I'm a professional and I'm a godly woman, I preach, I do all of that. One thing I can't get over is using profanity when I'm frustrated. Every time I've done everything, put the money in the jar. Oh, I've done it all. I just...

I need to get closer. I fasted, I prayed. It don't matter. It's a minute later. I'm on the road and here I go. Bleep, bleep, bleep. I don't know. This is one thing that I need to try to overcome and it seems so difficult. Now I'm starting to feel bad because my husband continuously calls me out. Do you have to say this? Do you have to say that? But

So I start to call him back and I'm going to be tabby and call him out when he makes mistakes. But I really want to overcome this. This is just something. I want to be one of those girls who make my sister, she never curses. In fact, if you say a bad word, she stops listening. She doesn't hear nothing. She just realizes her and the conversation is over. I don't want to be that sensitive, but I need to get to the point where I'm not using the type of profanity in

I love the keep it real nature of what's happening here. I love that you

you went on and told it like it is because we need more people telling it like it is. Thank you so much for your honesty and your transparency. I believe that this is something that many people can relate to whether they want to admit it or not.

I would like to offer you a few perspectives for you to just consider. First of all, I want to say it's not enough to want to stop cussing because it's inappropriate, because it's frowned upon, because it makes other people uncomfortable. You need a conviction from God about the type of language and vocabulary you should be using, about the types of reactions you should be having in moments of frustration, about

I personally believe that cussing is a habit or it is an organic reaction, a reflex that has become a part of our nature. And so if you get to a point where you're really like, and it sounds like you are, I am really, really frustrated that this is something that I cannot break off of my life. I would challenge you to invite the Holy Spirit to really give you a conviction about it, a heart conviction about it. And in those moments where you find yourself feeling

Lord, it just came on out my mouth to just take a minute and be like, God, I'm sorry. And I apologize. I repent. Help me, Lord. Allow me to have more access to your power, to make space for your power to function in my life so that I can break this off of me. I would like to offer you a few scriptures as you are in pursuit of what...

You know, how to break cursing off of your life. I also want to say this, though, to be like to keep it a book. Like when we are talking about cursing in the Bible, they're not talking about the language that we use. So there are a lot of scriptures that speak to cursing, but they are not in context of like the words themselves.

that we know in the English language that have become synonymous with cussing. However, there is a scripture that I think may speak to what you are experiencing. And it is in Colossians chapter three, verse eight. And it says, but now you yourselves are to put off all these things, anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. It could be said. But

that the language, though it is not necessarily cursing in the way that the Bible speaks about cursing, it is certainly a case to be made for it being filthy or inappropriate language. Having said that...

I do think that it can be a part of our reaction. So if we're angry, we're frustrated, we're upset, maybe instead of attacking the cussing, maybe we consider like, what are some ways that I need to cope in these moments of frustration and anger to make it less about the symptom that cussing is and more about the trigger that produces the cursing in the first place? What's happening in my world right now?

when I lose control of my language? What's happening in my world when I lose sight of who I want to be and how I want to show up? Am I tired? Is it a certain friend group? Is it something that's happening at my job? Is there certain people who just press this button inside of me? And maybe while I'm trying to get my language together, I need to stay out of environments that can trigger that response. What would a healthier response be? I don't want to have to cut you out, so I may need to stop talking to you altogether. I don't want to have to cut you out,

So maybe I need to be vulnerable instead of being passive aggressive. Maybe instead of being aggressive, I need to take a minute and figure out what it would look like to have some open, honest communication. There's something to be said about accountability. I'm personally not a fan. I'll be honest, though I need it. Like if

I'm on a diet and I tell you that I'm on a diet, I don't need you food policing me, but I might also need you food policing me. If this is something that the Lord has really laid on your heart, it's something that needs to change. There is nothing wrong with having a little accountability to help you stay on the straight and narrow. We don't want to buy cleaning your mouth out with soap, but we may need someone to remind you every now and then, like, this ain't who you say you want to be. So take that into the Lord in prayer. Consider it. Let it simmer.

Let it marinate and hopefully it will help you on your journey.

You know, speaking of cussing slash cursing being different and how many people are of the belief that cussing may be inappropriate, but it is not actually a sin. I think there are a few things that we have deemed as inappropriate in our, I think, really religious mindsets and mentality that have kept us from having the types of conversations that really bring about healing and transparency in health and

in a way that

healthy relationships and healthy connection with others. And I think an improvement in our self-esteem when we don't know how to deal with something in religious context, most of the time we just vilify it because we don't have solutions. And when we don't have solutions, it's easier to be like, well, let's condemn it until we can figure out how to deal with it. I truly believe that sex is one of the... I should put a disclaimer on this episode. I'm going to go back and record a disclaimer.

that sex is one of those things that it is taboo in our faith spaces because we do not want to give anyone access

to have risky sexual behavior. And yet when people are married, they can't even have healthy sexual behavior because it has been vilified and condemned so much that when it's actually time to engage in its beauty and its pleasure, we have difficulty. And so here's

Here at Woman Evolve, we're going to have a tough, tough, is it going to be tough conversation. I will say the flip side of that, and obviously I didn't have that story where I waited till marriage and then struggled to, you know, why is there something wrong with me? Because all of the things that I did not struggle to...

I'm trying to figure out what to... I don't... Is this part of being uncomfortable with having conversations about sex? I did not struggle with rewiring my mind because it had been vilified as much as I struggled with rewiring my mind because it had been commonized, which is not a word, but here we are. I think that...

Because I very much grew up in a culture where the language and imagery was explicit and hypersexual that I think I had to really work to get to a space of honor and sacredness as it related to sex in that way. So

All of us are learning in some way. And if we're not, we need to be teaching so that the rest of us can learn. I am about to have a conversation that I believe is going to be helpful for you as you navigate your own sexual identity, whether it is in the context of marriage or you're trying to rewire your brain from the culture or you're just trying to understand and make some choices about what health benefits

healthy sexual behavior looks like for you, I believe that this podcast is going to lay a brick in that foundation. And if you are struggling in general with this subject matter, I think that you've got to, you know,

really gauge whether or not this is a conversation that you should listen to. I will say that it is more informative than it is directive or descriptive. And so hopefully that helps you in making your choice. If at any moment you feel uncomfortable, you're like, oh, it's not for me, definitely log off and no judgment here. I'm looking forward to hearing your feedback though. I definitely want to know what you think about this conversation. So with that being said, let's talk about

Sex, baby. Let's talk about... Why you know that song? See, that's what I'm talking about, rewiring. Now, which one of y'all remember that Salt-N-Pepa song? That talk. The first time I had a conversation with my mother about sex, I was in the car. Oh, my goodness.

We had seen The Nutty Professor and The Nutty Professor, there's a part in the movie where they talk about having relations. And my mother goes, do you guys know in the movie Nutty Professor when they talk about having relations? We were like, mm-mm. And she goes, do you know what that means? And we were like, no. And she goes, that's what it means when you're going to have a baby. And we were like, okay, okay.

I'm pretty sure we didn't know and we were confused after that. Obviously, I figured it out. But yeah, we got to become more comfortable having these conversations in our own way. Not every way is going to fit for you, but I think we have to be more comfortable with saying the words, hearing the words, having these conversations with women, as women, with our partners, with our children, so that we are able to advocate for healthy behaviors, boundaries. We're able to more...

to more accurately navigate our total identity because we're not keeping some things hidden or thinking that some things are off limits as it relates to the Lord giving us wisdom, honestly, on how to share our body. So anyways, I've got with us

a licensed social worker, Christian sexologist. Yes, you heard it. International speaker and founder of the intimacy firm, Brittany Broaddus-Smith. If you've ever struggled with the intersection of faith and sexuality, if you've wrestled with shame or just need a safe space to explore intimacy in a healthier way, press that play button sis because we're about to get spicy.

Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. I'm so excited to have this conversation. I'm so excited too. Thank you for having me. I'm ready to go wherever you're ready to go. Let's go. The question is, where am I ready to go? I find my, this is my problem. I grew up

I was born in 88, grew up in the 90s, early 2000s. And during that time, everything from purity culture to music was like lady in the streets, freaking sheets. And I think that it has made conversations about intimacy, about sexuality, whether it's healthy and in the context of

healthy relationships and marriage, or it's just something that we're doing casually, it still just makes it very taboo for women to be having these conversations. And so I love that we're going to frame it with the integration of faith and Christianity and womanhood and sexuality, but I still feel like I'm about to get a whooping, like I'm about to get kicked out.

Like I'm going to be kicked out my house talking, having grown folks conversation. And I'm grown. I got kids. Okay. Been married and divorced and married again. And yet it still feels very taboo. What do you think that is? What has been ingrained into us as women that makes conversations like these feel like we're breaking rules? That's exactly what you said. We have been

socialized and literally steeped in this idea that this conversation is not for us.

for women in general then you add in women of color there's no black folks don't talk about certain stuff like this and then you add in women of faith and now that's even more erasure from such a necessary conversation so then when you become a mother a wife and all the things where you are now having the license to you know come and go as you please you can't seem to shake all

All the other things that have been so deeply ingrained, that's what's called your sexual script, right? And for women of faith, our sexual script is that sex is dirty. Sex is not to be talked about. We keep it a secret. We keep it in the dark. We whisper about it.

But also when you get home, act like you know. And ignore it all the way up until your honeymoon. And then swing from the chandelier. Turn it on. I mean, yeah. Exactly. And then we get the messages of what you won't do, another one will. And it's this idea that your sexual prowess is necessary investment in keeping your partner happy.

or your husband's faithful. And that is alongside men who get a different type of purity message, right? Because that's what we're talking about. Women, we get the purity message to keep us pure and chaste and keep us a viable candidate for marriage leading up to, and then you get

Then you get allowed to get, you know, filthy with joy, right? But men, their period message is to keep them faithful in their marriage. And their expectation during their singleness is that it's just going to happen and boys will be boys and that kind of thing. So that kind of dichotomy keeps us in this whirlwind of what am I supposed to do? But we are still, folks are still having, you know, the sex. Yeah.

But the thing is that people aren't happy about it. It's not really good sex because we are not giving ourselves permission to enjoy it because of everything that you just said. Okay, so some would argue that...

that the reason why we receive these sexual scripts is because if we let on to how enjoyable, how fun, how pleasurable intimacy can be, we will not be able to keep them from having casual sex and just being outside 24-7 and not preserving it for the sanctity of marriage. And so we have to make it bad. We have to make it taboo because that is how we preserve it

or marriage. What is your response to that philosophy? That fear has never been a good teacher of anything. And in the church, as well as in everyday society, like I work a lot in the education system, statistics show that comprehensive sex education

Those who receive it are more likely to delay sexual initiation. It is when curiosity doesn't have that safe place to land that folks go out and try to find it on their own. And when we think about it, sex is one of the few things that we do that to. Like, let's make it bad. Let's make it negative. Let's cast a negative light on it to keep folks from doing it. We don't do that with desserts.

We don't do that with money. We don't do that with any of those things. But the reality of it is when we do that, while that may scare folks away from doing it in safe ways, while it scares folks away from having conversations about it with trusted individuals, especially our young people, with trusted adults, it doesn't actually stop the sex from happening.

And folks are more likely to take more risks. Folks are more likely to do things that don't necessarily align with their values because they feel like they have no other way. It's like that cookie in the cookie jar, you know, kind of syndrome. And I feel like if we are to establish sex as the gift that we get to do, that God created and set aside for an appointed time, just like all the other things that we discuss and relate to his promises and things like that, then folks will

began to honor and respect the culture of sex and work on developing a relationship with sex that is healthy before a sexual relationship. And as I said to your question, fear has never been successful in teaching us anything.

That's a really interesting perspective. When I kind of like look at it from different angles and from my own experience, I was a teenage mother. I got pregnant at 14. No, I got pregnant at 13. I had my baby at 14. Sex was very taboo. I grew up in the height of purity culture. And so the idea of it being...

I guess bad. I think the message that I received about sex early on was less about like it's bad and more you're going to be bad. You're going to be nasty. But what's wild is like on the other side, culture was celebrating this idea of you being bad, you being nasty. And so they had competing messages for me as it relates to sex. When I think about my relationship with like

I was in my 20s, I think, when I first smoked weed. This is so random, but trust me, I'm going somewhere. But I was very...

not afraid, but very cautious when it came to like messing with other substances, because I just felt like I knew too much about it to play with it. And I think there is perhaps something to be said, and each person learns things differently about having so much knowledge about the impact that something can have on your emotional state, the effect that it can have on your body,

that you are able to make a more responsible decision about how you want to engage with some, any particular thing because of the knowledge you possess. And so I do think that it would make sense that the more comprehensive education that people have about sex, not just biologically, but emotionally, relationally, like the more that we unpack it, the more we are empowering them to make responsible choices about

instead of just saying, don't touch that. And then just trusting that they won't. My daughter is 15 and we are having conversations about sex and not that she is engaging, but just she's a teenager. She's in school with boys and sex is on the table. And so it's interesting trying to have conversations that I didn't have. And I often wonder like,

What's too much? What's not enough? I don't want them educating her about what's healthy in sexual relationships. And I don't want to be silent. And so walking this out, though I have never experienced it, is making me like clutch my pearls. It's interesting because I...

I believe God spared me from this experience because of the work that I was eventually going to do. While growing up, very much Pentecostal, very much Black church, very much with Southern grandparents, I didn't really get much of the hang-ups as it relates to sex and sexuality, though I was aware of it.

But I did get the silence part, as you told me, didn't talk about when, you know, I didn't, I tried my hardest, right? But I did not hold on to God's changing hand until marriage. And the day after it all went down, I went, my mom went to the hair store and she just looked at me at the register and said, you're dead.

That was the extent of our sex talk. Because I told her I wasn't coming home the night before. Imagine, been grown in college. I told her I wasn't coming home that night and she put two and two together. And that was the extent of our talk. So then you fast forward. I'm raising two boys as a sexuality educator, as someone who despises the what goes on in this house, stays in this house kind of.

Mindset because of the harm that that can cause so, you know our number one rule in this house No secrets and no lies. So we talk about a lot of things and then i'm their mom so they hear me teaching they see all of my

models and things like that and so trying to find that as you said that that middle ground so what's too much what's not enough and you know my son wants to take my my bubble puppet to school with him for show or tell no baby veronica can't go to school with you because i don't want to have to get into it with nobody's mama right and so and folks are often concerned with

The language that my young, my boys use, we've been using medically accurate body part terms. We don't do the nicknames and all of that. We've been doing that from the beginning, but it has been quite an experience that I often sit back and like, my mom never, we never had this conversation, but I also know there was a whole lot of stuff I would not have gotten myself into had I had somewhere for this conversation to have, even if I didn't necessarily have questions, right? To your point about

helping folks make better decisions or equipping them to make better decisions, even just normalizing that these questions are okay. But some of our young people aren't really motivated to do things or even adults. I don't even really want to do it. I just want to talk about it. I heard about it. And when there's no space in values aligning spaces like churches or whatever, my only outlet or my only source of information is the streets. And

And they don't know what they're talking about. That's why I told my, you ask questions to your friends. Y'all talk about stuff at school. Cool. But bring it back here first and vet it through me first so that we can make sure that we're on the, we're on the same page. But it, but it's tough being what you never had. It is. Can you tell me, what are you noticing as some of the,

Breakthroughs in women's health women's confidence as you're doing this work with them. Yes, so the primary thing is

As some folks may know, I spend a lot of time talking about body parts, a lot of time with my vulva puppet and things like that, because I think that that's where we start. Like finding or helping women develop agency and ownership over their bodies by even being able to use medically accurate terms, use a hand mirror to take a look at their vulva. I recommend that, you know, once a month and every once in every cycle, go ahead, just take a hand mirror.

make sure everybody's okay down there. And just things like that to empower women that your body is yours to be able to develop your voice as it relates to pleasure in the bedroom and not beyond the bedroom, in the hospital space. Because you know, the medical field, they don't really pay as much mind sometimes. And so those things, just seeing how well they connect. So I worked with a client who was trying to, you know,

get back on track with abstinence. And she found herself just saying yes to things just for companionship purposes that she didn't really agree with. And as we navigated building her sexual confidence and sexuality more than just sexual behavior, she was willing to get back into ministry and start singing again because they're all connected. Wherever you go, my mom used to say, wherever you go, there you are, right? So this idea that our sexual self can be set on a shelf

to be picked up and laid down is what keeps us fractured. So that breakthrough is a really a reconciliation of who we are as women of faith, as sexual beings, as who God created us, where and when you are able to blend those together or reconcile those back together, that's when stewardship can happen. You're able to steward your desires, able to steward your decision making, you're able to steward your, you know, even the company you keep and all of that. Because I think at

As we pursue sanctification, that's really the heart of it is how do we steward the things that we have access to? That are said are meant to be set aside for a program body's gonna do what bodies do right you're going you cannot you're gonna get horny It's just it's you know, what's gonna happen, right? But what you do with those sensations Right how you are feeding those sensations in the moments where you're not feeling that right is what's going to determine

How, again, your relationship with sex and that's single and married alike, because we still have to manage and steward our desires, even married, because the biggest lie told is when you get married, you're going to have sex all day long, every single day, whenever you want. And so the way you steward that single is the way you want to steward and marry. If you struggle with fornication single, you're going to struggle married. It's just going to be called something different.

And so I think that that's the breakthrough with that reconciliation of self and sexual self, seeing that as one created being, seeing that person as whole, seeing that person as a part of the gospel all that he had made and said it was very good. Seeing all of that, knowing all of that, learning all those parts and walking in that agency has been the biggest breakthrough before all the where you put this, where does this work? How do I do this better?

I can, you know, I can say these words and these body parts without blushing. Right. That's the biggest thing. That's where we need to start. Yeah. What permission does a woman need to give herself in order to allow that integration to take place? Oh, that's so good. I just had this conversation with Dr. Candace Hargan. She wrote a book called Good Sex that actually just came out last week.

And we were talking about the two baseline permission is cure for curiosity and courage, right? You want to give yourself permission to be curious and challenge yourself to be courageous in areas where you are unfamiliar. And so being curious about your body for so much of us, so many of us, excuse me, we are just told what to do from birth. We're told where we can go. When, if you were raised like I was, you won't sit at that table and you're going to

clean that plate out. You're not getting up until it's done. So now, even though I'm full because my plate is not empty, I have this here. So I, early on, we teach people to stop listening to their bodies, to listen to other people. So we unintentionally, sometimes intentionally give permission over to other people to tell us what we think and feel even down to what the sensations of our body. So give yourself permission to be curious about,

allows you to ask questions, allows you to push back when something doesn't make sense, allows you to, as I said, just take a look at your body part. There's some people, folks I've talked to who really believe looking at your vulva, moving things around and make sure, see what we see that that was thin and that was likened to self-pleasure. And it's like, don't you go to the doctor?

The doctor do similar things. Are you having sexual relations with the doctor when they do it? And when you break it, they're not to be like facetious, but like, do we see how ridiculous this has gotten? People are so afraid of the skin that they're in. So curiosity, that permission to be curious

allows for that. Even curious about scripture. Like we understand and we've been held this thought that, you know, sex is between husband and wife until marriage. There's certain things we don't do. Adultery is this, you know, bestiality, all the things that's just explicit. But then there's some things that

We have to decide where the letter of the word is missing. The spirit of the word is there. And that's where give yourself permission to ask questions of your faith. Be like, what does this mean? How, what, how does that, you know, Mary got married at 12, 13. I'm 40 and menopause, Perry menopause is knocking on the door. And he's like, what, what, what do I do with this? That, that period. And then the, the courage is to,

try new things, explore the especially particularly in in marriage, like get step outside of the cookie cutter that you've been given of what a good godly woman is. Now there are standards, right? You know, we we serve we serve the good God and we serve things we don't do in holiness, right? But there is we don't do that in holiness. But there's a question the courage is to explore

Whether this is a thing that God expects of us or this a thing that my pastor and my grandmother and all these other people have handed down that I've just picked up at home. Okay. I already know that there's going to be plenty of questions. You touched on self-pleasure. This is an email that I get quite a bit. Women who feel like they're addicted, can't stop. What do you think about, and I will say this.

What will I say? Come on, let's do it.

What will I say? I will say that I think that there is not one universal response to this question and that every person's situation, motivation, circumstance, coping mechanism is completely different. So I don't know. I can't say that I understand each and every person's reason and intent behind asking the question. I lean a little bit towards it. If the

If you're asking the question, there's probably something worth digging into that may suggest that it's too much, too far, not rooted in the right reasons, that there's probably something there worth exploring. But I just want to add that framework because I don't want to put you in a position where you're answering a question that has to fit every single circumstance. But I am curious.

to your response to someone who feels like is this a sin am i doing it too much am i addicted what are some of the markers that we need to look for i don't know who's going to come to me i knew i was going to try to go around if i knew we was going to come here well you said it and i said well she's here let me ask her and you know what's great i don't even get to to to uh

that dance around it because I did what in my case I released the episode is that I stopped masturbating and lost and gained 35 pounds so I done told the world my business and told the world my business but that I I did that because of this question because it's also the question I get all the time and so the way that I have received it through study and just the Holy Spirit is

The act itself, while there is no scripture that says thou shall not masturbate, right? We have to look at motive. I do not believe that masturbation or self-pleasure serves God's heart for single Christians, particularly in their, while they are abstaining, because then it makes you dependent on you. Most people,

Use self-pleasure as a way to navigate abstinence and if we are if anything that he's expecting of us We are dependent on him to complete and we should seek him for the strength to be able to do so if I say That's alright I can hold on for another year because I can you know DJ clue when I feel like it then Then who am I dependent on right? And so I think that we then put ourselves in the position of

of deity when we do that. Additionally, while it may not say thou shalt not masturbate, it does speak very clearly about lust. It does speak very clearly about coveting other folks, you know, spouses. It does speak very clearly about idolatry. And so when I shared my testimony, that's where, that's when I got the greatest revelation because I decided I wasn't going to do this anymore. I'm done. But when I had really big feelings, I did not turn to God for help.

I turned to the kitchen. And then when I couldn't call nobody, I went everywhere else. And he said, I said to me, clear that he said, when is it going to be my turn? And I, that like, I was like, hold on, lower your voice, sir. But, and I realized that the sin of it all is that I decided that my urges were going to control my decision-making. So when I,

had a difficult conversation with my co-parent, or if I felt lonely, or whatever was going on, if I was stressed on a job, I reached for whatever I reached for to make myself feel good. And that was where the sin was in the idolatry of my urges. I was worshiping at the altar of my emotions and not depending on him to complete what he asked me to do, to not depending on him to allow myself to be weak so that his strength can be made perfect, right?

So that's what I feel about it for single folks. For married folks, I know scientifically, that's the work that I do, right? We're bridging the gap between the science and the scripture, is that self-pleasure can help

folks in differing marital situations. If you have erectile dysfunction, mutual self-pleasure can help alongside with that. If we have folks who are deployed, truck drivers, away for long periods of time, that can be moments where you all are doing this together. When the motivation is to serve the good of the unit, then this is part of you all

Exploring and expanding what happens in your marriage bit now if we get again to motive and we get to the place where we sneaking And one partner don't know you got a drawer full of fun and don't nobody know about it And you wait until you check it wait seeing everybody sleep you turn it on the the

Sink real loud. Okay, nobody here. Now there's a different conversation. So then now you're being dishonest and that's where sin is. I think that anywhere where you're hiding, anywhere where it becomes self-serving, then that's when it becomes the problem because I believe God created sex for mutuality, that anything that becomes self-serving,

It's when it becomes sinful. But there could be mutual self-pleasure that everybody is aware of, everybody's on board with, nobody's having any problem with, that serves the good of the unit. That's what I teach from my perspective. I know folks, as you say, who all out categorically disagree. But that's where single folks, don't go and lay that down. As difficult as it may be,

Don't put that down. Marry folks. Be intentional about how you use it to, you know, bring joy into your bedroom to keep your keep your bedroom enemy through. I think that's an excellent answer. And I'm I'm sure that you've done a lot of work and studying to make sure that you look at every scenario when answering the question. And it shows. So thank you for for your wisdom and intentionality and answer and get.

Because I do think that bigger than, to your point, the behavior is, you know, who are you depending on? What is it? What bridge is it getting you over? And is that the ultimate plan in cadence that's going to lead you to success?

you know, whatever's most fulfilling and what ultimately makes you more like Jesus. I have a question though. So that's one side of the coin. There's another side of the coin where a woman has no desire at all. Maybe she's stressed, maybe life is life thing. And she cannot remember the last time that she even felt that like, blah, blah, blah, boom. Like she is not there. What would you say to a woman who's having a difficult time even connecting to that part of herself?

I will start with first, I mean, in all cases, I always start with making sure there's not anything medical going on.

medications that could sometimes like zap, libido and that kind of thing. If it's medical, we got to address that first. But if it's just like, you know, life is life and then we go, you know, time to take a journey down memory lane. I know it's been a while, but when was the last time you felt like this? When was the last time you were sitting on a bed and you, you know, your eyes would walk past and you was like,

I need that. And what was happening around that time? What wasn't happening around that time? What has changed in your life or your circumstances that's present now or not present now that was then and vice versa? And look at how do we get back to that? And in some instances, there is no getting back.

Right. And they're like, so I don't really like the language of like mommies getting their sexy back after having children because you're not the same woman anymore. You're completely different. And I don't want you looking back to what used to be as opposed to embracing how sexy and wonderful you are right now and what the future could look like. And so if there is something that we need to let go of, we kind of navigate that. And then we get into the meat of it where we're unfortunately most of the lives.

Do you not like sex or you not like the sex that you're having? And then this husband, come on in here.

What are we, is it too much of a wham bam? Thank you, ma'am. Are we not allowing your body to function as it was designed to function? Like our, with the sexual response cycle, right? We're about 15 to 20, sometimes 30 minutes behind arousal before men, right? And sometimes, you know, they mean well, but husbands, they ready to jump the gun sometime. And because it takes nothing for them to, you know,

stand at attention, they're ready to go. Right. And so sometimes that's the part of it is just like they don't feel themselves as a part of this moment. There's no ownership in the sexual culture. And so when I work my clients, I get all in their business. Let's start from the beginning. It's the morning time. What is happening moment by moment right before we get to we start.

Right. And most times I find a disconnect in the lead up.

Which is why the desire is missing because a lot of women feel like it's just getting ready to be more of the same. And especially when you've been married a long time, you can almost like script what is getting ready to move and get to the place where you just started moaning and he didn't even hit that move yet because you're already kind of... Look at you, look at you, you ahead of the game. You're ahead of the game because you're already... And then there's those moments where women are like, it's called spectatoring, where you're almost like...

out of your body, like narrating what's happened, especially post baby. Like, you know, is it, is it hanging low? Like, you know, is everybody looking at that right in the right position? And so we're kind of like, we're not in the moment and can't deal. And so all of those feelings that we know are going to come is like, man, I don't even feel like, I don't even feel like doing this. So I would encourage, um, that woman to really be intentional about assessing, um,

What's different? Because I've never met a woman. We were both born in the 80s, so you ain't been around longer than me, but you've seen, you've traveled the world, right? Have you ever met a woman who actively avoids the orgasm?

Like just running from the hill. No. Okay. You're going to make every excuse in the world not to get rude. Right. Okay. And so if it's good and they feel welcome, they feel supported and they feel loved and hear this and they feel like this touch is more than just for sexual. More than just for sexual function.

Right. Because a lot of times the touching and the kind words and all of that only happens when you're trying to get something. Right. But if they feel equity and they feel joy and they feel like they're being loved on and appreciated, then that's someone who's going to run towards her. Right. So we're avoiding the bedroom, avoiding what happens in the bedroom, living room, bathroom, whatever you went to. That's your business.

Something is missing and maybe interpersonal, right? And maybe personal because it could be as much as like, I know a couple, God bless his heart. The way he initiated or made it clear that he was ready, you know, to have some fun that night, he would just come and just pat her on the chest.

She'd be washing the dishes, doing whatever. He'd just come like, you coming upstairs? And she complied because, again, that's what good women of God do, right? They're dutiful in there. They do their wifely duties, right? She complied, but she hated it because it felt like just disrespectful and disregarding. And he thought he was being cute and fun and playful.

And so that's why I like to walk through the steps to see how we got here. And it's simple tweak in the way he initiated it.

Um help them along with the fact that he would be ready to go to bed And then he would just go upstairs shower and be but as a mom when it's time to go to bed You know, you got to turn the house off. You have to make sure everybody goes to bed Everybody got a shower or the lunch is paid. We got to read 14 books You know all like and then you got to make sure ain't no boo-boos and kiss all the boo-boos Make sure ain't no monsters in the closet like all the things it's 15 steps Was 15 steps to his two

And then by the time she got upstairs, she had nothing left. And then as a woman who was responsive desire versus spontaneous, because those are two different ones. Like some people are spontaneous. It's Tuesday. You smell good. Let's go. Right. And then responsive desire is like, my mind is not on that. I'm on 57 other things, but in response to some type of stimuli, my mind gets into it. And then my body, right.

And we needed to shift the approach and shift his support of her leading up to it, then reduce the amount of times that she was saying no. Because she wasn't saying no to the orgasm. She was saying no to all the work that it would take to get there. And she was saying no to the negative approach or to feeling disregarded in his approach to initiation. I don't

I don't know if that answers the question.

have been produced in our marriage in the last six months, last five years, last 10 years. That makes it not the same rhythm that we once had. But I love that there's always an opportunity to readjust and still prioritize experiencing one another and having pleasurable experiences with one another, no matter what changes have taken place. This reminds me of a conversation that I actually just read this book about a

a sexual abuse survivor trying to re-engage in healthy relationships. And I'm wondering what advice do you give those who have experienced abuse, have experienced trauma, and is now trying to have a healthy relationship with sex that isn't a trigger for difficult experiences that they've possessed? Yeah, the first thing, the first step that I worked through

with women who've experienced that. And it's so unfortunate that's a part of so many of our stories. It's so disheartening. But it's to recognize that what happened was not sex.

And so being able to delineate between what happened to you and the gift of sex that you have been gifted and you get to do in your marriage are two different things. And even though, unfortunately, it's the same behavior and things like that, that wasn't because you weren't in control, because you didn't have gift consent, because you were assaulted or harmed in any way, shape or form.

That wasn't sex. That's not this. And a lot of people just struggle to see the difference between the two and growing to the place where you see sex as something that you get to do and not something that you have to do.

And then we go from there to be very vocal. Folks who have traumatic experiences have to carry the weight of having to be more vocal about their boundaries and their limitation. And also the work of discovering what that looks like, right? Because you have to know if, for example, whatever your non-negotiable, so let's say, for example, I had a

a couple of whom she experienced some sexual assault and oral sex was involved. The oral sex was a complete non-negotiable for her. But she did not tell him that during their courting, dating, engagement phase. He did not find that out until the wedding night. And though he was looking for it,

to that and it was a and in her head she couldn't process why he would want her to do something so degrading and this then the third um but she wasn't very she wasn't up front or she hadn't really shared with him because of her own battle with that trauma how much that truly meant um to them so your first outside of delineating between the two

Trauma therapy is crucial for helping to disengage those triggers and becoming vocal about taking ownership in that sexual relationship where you are not necessarily dictating, but

being clear about where you are willing for this to go, but also being open to if there's something that's off the table for you, talking with your partner, your spouse, like, what does this do for you? And how can we compromise to get a similar experience or a similar outlet or whatever that doesn't leave me crying after it's all said and done? And in the same way, working with

The partner, because having, being a partner, being a spouse to someone who's experienced sexual trauma is also a difficult walk to walk because you don't want to intentionally be triggering, but you're walking alongside them as they're doing that work is necessary, but also just...

confirming and just to reiterate anybody's even watching this that had that experience that pleasure is your right as well um despite what's happened to you we're not going to further let the enemy rob you of the gift that god gave you that was that was evil that was not that this is something completely different you still have the opportunity to create something beautiful and life-giving that is 10 times as good

As that was bad. Yeah That's a good word. Okay, i've asked you before we go if womanhood had a soundtrack What's one song that would have to be on yours and why? Oh, is that bad? I'm not gonna go to the first one I thought

I need you to hold up a sign and just, I need to know what it is. And you, you've done it now. I'll just say this. I have been called the child of Shirley Caesar and Cardi B. That is what I've been. And they had a, they came together, had a little person somehow. Okay. Okay. I'm understanding. I'm understanding. Okay.

a soundtrack that's such a good question um you know beauty is her name let's go with it

Beauty is her name. I think that the work of womanhood, specifically Black womanhood, has put a dim over what it really means to embrace full womanhood. This idea, this fighting over 50-50 and soft life and this and masculine and feminine. It's become a mess. And so just to rest in the beauty

of being a woman that God created and just all the things that come with it is beauty. Beauty is her name. That will go with it. That was so safe. That was so beautiful. I love that. I'd say when we press, when we unrecord, I'll tell you what I'm saying.

Period. Well, thank you. Thank you for having these tough conversations with us and for making it less taboo for us to talk about our bodies, our pleasure and what they look like in the context of healthy relationships. I'm grateful. Thank you for your time. Thank you.

Brittany, I remember you tagging me and things on social media, me reaching out, sliding into your DMs and asking you to come to Hey You. You were a crowd favorite then and it's very clear why. Thank you so much for your transparency, for your authenticity, for having these open and honest conversations that haven't always been broached.

I really feel it is necessary for us to really take into consideration the fullness of womanhood and to determine what our unique journey and path is going to look like. I'm really glad that we got the chance to connect one-on-one because of the incredible work you're doing.

Women have found the freedom to break myths, heal wounds, and embrace the fullness of who they are through both science and scripture. So thank you so much for helping us explore such a crucial conversation. Now, Holy Spirit, we are asking for your wisdom, your guidance, your direction. Please teach us.

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And so, God, I'm praying for everyone who has listened throughout this podcast, whether they have been challenged in the area of their language, challenged to leave a toxic relationship, or maybe they just don't have a vision in an area where they have been entrusted to lead.

God, I'm praying that you would open their spiritual eyes. God, I'm thinking of that scripture in Ephesians that the eyes of their understanding would be enlightened, that they would know your will, your ways, the perfect will of God in your spirit with more clarity. God, grant this as I know you already want to do and give us the capacity and sensitivity to respond in a way that reflects our desire to become closer and closer to you.

In Jesus' name I pray. Amen. Evolve.