The Revolutionary Power in Purpose w/ Khadeen Ellis
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Can't bless who you pretend to be or who you compare yourself to he can only bless you and the lane that was created for you You don't need no edge entity you need boundaries

It's being back with my besties for me. Let me tell you something. It is Women's History Month and Woman Evolve has got you covered. We're going to be talking about women who are making history in their own right all this month. And I am so excited. But first of all, let me tell y'all about y'all. I preached in Miami over the weekend and a few of y'all put up on the kid. Don't

think that it was not a party y'all don't understand i love when i see the delegation coming out and showing love i appreciate you all so so much one thing that you all should know is each month we have a theme if you are not signed up for our newsletters you gotta get it woman evolve dot com slash connect each month we have a theme where we're talking about revolutionary something this month we're talking about revolutionary power

And to kick off Women's History Month, we're going to be talking about power and purpose with Kadeen Ellis. She is widely known for her involvement with the Black Love docuseries and her family's YouTube success. This is all about love, and I'm excited to get to know more about her. I have a feeling by the time this is over, we're going to be besties too. Hi, Kadeen. How are you?

Hello, I'm doing so well. How are you? I'm doing amazing. Thank you for doing this. I'm excited. No, of course. Likewise. You look beautiful in that orange. Oh, thank you. Had to brighten it up a little bit out here. I love that. So where are you at? Where are you at right now? I'm in L.A. You're in L.A.? Okay, nice. I've been home for me for eight years. Oh, really? How's the weather there?

Right now it's actually only up and up. So it's been a little chilly, but you know, it's the end of February now. So once March hits, what I'm learning is that it starts to get a little better. So this weekend is looking like high 70s and maybe 80, which is nice. Okay. So I'm not mad at that. I'm not mad at that. Congratulations on the new baby.

Thank you. He's up napping with my mom right now. He's been so great. I mean, it's crazy to think my fourth boy that I would just be this in love. You know, I'm just thinking it's going to be one more boy to the bunch. Let's just throw him into the mix. But no, something about this one. I'm like.

And your babies seem like they all have their own unique offering that they bring to your family. So I can totally see this new one having his own special magic. Yes. You hit the nail on the head with that one for sure. It's like it's not just another boy that makes this something special about him. I said I prayed for a mini me, but I guess I wasn't specific with the boy or girl.

So I said, let me get a mini-me this time, guys. And he said, I'm going to get you a mini-me, sis, but in a boy form. So here he is. Do you come from a big family?

Well, I'm one of three, but I have aunts and uncles and I think six on each side and tons of cousins and whatnot. Like when DeVal and I got married and did our list for our wedding, we sat down and jotted down all of our family members on both sides. And it was just aunts, uncles, first cousins, siblings, parents, and it was like 92 people. So it's a pretty big family. That is big. Well, I have to tell you, your family has been such an inspiration, such a breath of fresh air.

for this generation. And so I just want to thank you for offering your lives up to us, allowing us to learn from your lessons. We are in launching Women's History Month with this podcast series with women who have just found revolutionary power in their own fields, in their own identity. And so we are, I'm interviewing influential women. I'm interviewing everyday women with the intent of just like learning about your story and your journey. There's a little person crawling behind you in the TV. Yeah.

It's not a rodent, but it does look like a little person. Listen, coming from New York and that too, I'm like, I get PTSD because you know you being the subway, there be rats everywhere. So if I see something in my peripheral, I'm like, oh no. Don't trust it. You can say hi. You can say hi real quick. He's grabbing his laptop. Sarah says hi.

That is pretty hilarious. If it wasn't going to be him, it was going to be a kid. But I said, you know what? Schedule me while they're in school because someone's liable to pop up. Okay, we'll do the best we can and then we'll have any special guests that come in. They have to answer questions though. I love that. Well, I'm happy to be here, Sarah. And I thank you for this opportunity. And you just saying it's a woman's history. I just realized it's March

first. Oh my goodness. I feel like I blinked and February is over, but I am super honored to even just be in the company, in the good company of our everyday women, influential women. I will tell you that Deval and I decided on the social media journey about, I want to say five years ago, five and a half years ago. And it wasn't an easy decision for me because I just come from a family of, you know, you keep your business to yourself. You don't do too much. You don't talk about too much.

However, I really after we started doing the social media thing and things started to grow and we were really just existing in our life and existing in our space and just being true to who we were and just kind of putting it out there and seeing that that was catching on. We realized that there was a deficit for that black family unit being shown in a positive light.

So it started as us just really doing that because my husband, you know, going into the acting field, me as well, doing television and hosting and acting, we just were looking for a different way to kind of put ourselves out there. So we felt like, all right, if we do these short little videos with our family just to kind of show like, you know, our improv skills or something like that's really how it started. And then before we knew it, things just started to kind of catch on and it became this kind of movements in a sense.

where even DeVal now has been dubbed the godfather of daddy content because he's always putting out videos as well too. So it wasn't an easy decision for me in the beginning because I kind of just had that protective feeling. Mama bear, I don't want to put my cubs out there. I don't want to put my family out there to be scrutinized in a sense.

But we realized that we were doing more good than harm, especially because we're able to control our narrative when we put our content out there. So turning them down deals for like reality shows or things like that, where our likeness might have been taken and kind of misconstrued or, you know, we had to sign away our likeness. We kind of like it here. You know, we love it here where we can kind of exist in a space where we're controlling our narrative. So.

I get that. And I have to tell you, you know that you're making headway. I am a faithful listener to the read. And to hear Kid Fury and Crystal speak positively of you all as a couple is like so beautiful because generally they trash in cisgender straight men. They're usually trash. But you guys got a pass. And so we thank you for putting a pass in there for those of us who still hanging on over in this other area. Awesome.

I love that. I love that. Shout out to Kid, Wes, and Crystal. They were great. And they were like, for us, they were like the godparents of podcasting. Because when time came for us to start ours, they were really, really like instrumental in just being a support system for us. They had us on there. So we were able to get that crossover view. So people said, oh, who are these people that they're talking about? You know?

So we are definitely forever in debt to them and love them. And he's definitely, we joke with Wes because he's Jamaican as well, that he's pretty much like an honorary uncle to our son of the family background and whatnot. But yeah, I'm glad that...

that you were able to find us there. - Yes, okay. Revolutionary power and purpose. That is what we are talking about this week at Woman Evolve, how a woman discovers her power through purpose. And a part of me wants to ask when you felt the most powerful, but I wanna kind of backtrack, Kadeen. I wanna know- - Okay.

When is it time in your life where you felt the least powerful, where you felt kind of powerless and susceptible to other people's perception of who you are?

Very good question. I probably felt the most, I had several moments when I think about it over the course of my life, moments where I felt like I kind of didn't have control of certain situations or I wanted to be in better control of situations. And those are times when, of course, I had to just lean not on my understanding, but just kind of have faith.

One in particular was when my husband and I, at the time we were just boyfriend and girlfriend and I just graduated grad school and I was trying to start a career in broadcast journalism, which people know historically is not the easiest field to break into. But at the time he was in Detroit playing for the Detroit Lions. And I just knew that I just didn't want to sit back at home and just like chill. I know this was my opportunity while he was good in his career for me to kind of launch mine.

So I decided to move to a small market into Michigan and I said, you know what? Let me try to find a job here in this small market where I would be able to then eventually propel myself into a bigger market again, like New York, where I was from. So he was, you know, establishing his career. He's, you know, star football player doing his thing. He left college, he's in the NFL. And then I was just really hit in a hard place with trying to find a job. And, you know,

could not find anything in my field. The recession hit back in like 2007, 2008. And I was just really feeling like, you know, I had the ability to do so much and I had exhausted so many options. And then nothing was just turning out in my favor when it came to me just kind of really starting this career that I wanted so badly. So with him leaving Detroit and then going to Cleveland, I said to him, I'm like, listen,

love you and all but i'm not about to be this girl that's just going to be following you from state to state you know being your your coattails when i know that there's some things that i want to accomplish and i kind of want to get my career rolling so he said okay um i understand you know you can go back home to new york and we'll figure things out he ended up retiring and then i went back to new york and in that moment we realized that we were pretty much starting from scratch and

Any bit of savings, any bit of assets that we had were all completely lost. Stock market investments, anything that we had done to start this little nest egg was just disappearing. And then I went back to Brooklyn with him and he and I sat in the apartment and we just were like, what do we do now? And not being able to find a job, I said, you know what, let me lean on a little craft that I had, which was doing makeup.

So I said to him, man, you know, I'm going to just go to the mall. At the time, we had just gotten engaged. I said I took off my wedding ring or my engagement ring at the time and I put it on the nightstand. And I said, I'm just going to go to the mall and I'm just going to try to find a job, just do something. So got on the B44 bus that was around the corner from the house. I went to the mall, pretty much begged Mad Cosmetics to give me a job at the time, even just something part time that we could stay afloat with.

And then luckily they hired me. And in that moment, I was at least working part time and just able to help supplement the bills and then trying to do little makeup jobs and gigs on the side. And it was a powerless situation for me in that moment because I felt like I always had something that

going for me at the time, whether it was I was in grad school and I had like my side hustle gig, you know, doing my internships or I was able to like, you know, do something else if I wasn't on the career path that I wanted at the time, at least it was like something towards what I wanted to do, which was ultimately be on camera. But to me in that moment, I just felt really unfulfilled in whatever my purpose was, because I felt like I just had to make ends meet and do what I had to do at the time. And it wasn't necessarily what I wanted to do.

You know, my car had gotten broken into one morning when I was on my way to do a 13 person wedding party. I'll never forget it. It was Columbus Day. And I was like, damn, I have to go to this wedding party. I had to be up at like five in the morning to drive to Long Island. I went downstairs. My car was broken into. My makeup kit was stolen. I had to call a friend of mine who was another makeup artist. And I was like, hey, I just need a kit. I need makeup. I have

13 phases to do an array of skin tones. Like, what is this going to look like for me? And she was able to give me a kit to just at least get by for that day. It just felt like there was just a bunch of things, one after the other, that I was just feeling so defeated in.

But the great thing that I did have to fall back on was, of course, the support of my boyfriend at the time and then my family as well, who is very, very instrumental in my life and just making sure that, you know, on those times when I feel down and out, at least I don't feel alone, which is a lot of the reasons why I'm able to continue.

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That's so powerful. I heard you say that you had ability, but no options in that season when you were in Michigan. And that's difficult, especially when you've always seen your life moving with this forward momentum. And I feel like so many women can relate to this idea of like, my plan is working. It's moving along. Even if it's just a simple plan for the day. Okay. Like I woke up on time, I got this thing together. And then all of a sudden, like that momentum stops. And

And when it's out of your hands, that is a really powerless feeling. But I also feel like when I look back on my life,

I think I became someone in those moments where I felt powerless, where I felt like I had ability but no options. And whether that was someone who surrendered to the connections around me and allowed myself to be poured into and encouraged or someone who just rolled up her sleeves and figured out how to build the website herself. Who do you think you became in that season where you had ability but no options?

Oh man, I think it was a couple different things. It was me just trying to A, find a way. So after getting that job at MAC Cosmetics, we ended up getting married. I had my first son. And then I felt super...

because I was working a retail schedule, retail environment. So that already is demanding just with the hours and having to always be in store. I was a manager, so I kind of worked my way up the ladder. So I felt like, okay, I'm out of this rut of just trying to find this part-time gig. But then I did not have the autonomy over the time that I wanted. So I had my first son, we were married, but I was always working. I didn't have time. I feel like for that first year and a half, I just completely lost

lost time with my first son and I'll never forget. It was Thanksgiving back in I want to say I forget the year now, but maybe like 2011 or 12. My son was on maybe like a year year and a half and this is when Macy's started doing the hours where you can come in as of like midnight to start shopping after Thanksgiving. So they were moving up that Black Friday time more and more and I was just like

I had to go open this store at midnight. So I'm leaving Thanksgiving dinner. Like I said, family is very big for me. I'm leaving Thanksgiving dinner, leaving my son, what was, I think it was his first Thanksgiving. So that's why it was very emotional for me, but his first Thanksgiving and I was just like, I have to get up and go to the store and sell makeup. People don't even value family anymore. What's going on? This is crazy.

And I remember looking at my husband and I put my head in his chest. I had my makeup done and my all black ready to go to work. And I put my head in his chest and then instantly just started like sobbing. So then the makeup is a mess. And then, you know, he's looking at me and he's just like, hey, I promise you, this is your last time having to leave us.

for Thanksgiving or any holiday for that matter to have to go to work. I want to be able to make sure that you are supported and you feel like you will be able to have the autonomy over the time that you want so desperately with your family. And I said, I understand. I know, as I usually say to him, and I left to go to work that day.

Just lean on my family to be there, you know, with my son to just give him the experience of having the family around for Thanksgiving and that weekend. And what my husband didn't tell me until recently when we were on date night, like maybe last week was that, you know, when I walked away from that moment and he watched me kind of turn the corner in the car, he said that he began to sob because he felt like

man, I could not even in this moment console my wife and give her an option. So in those powerless moments, I lean on and I was able to lean on the help of my husband, the help of my family, and just kind of relinquish certain things that weren't in my control.

Me being very much wanting to just be very type A and organized and having things in order. It's very hard for me sometimes to just kind of let things go. So to your point, I definitely was that woman that said, you know what, Kadeem, you're going to have to slowly as you have children and a life and a career, you're trying to juggle all the things, which I definitely felt deep down was possible. I know sometimes women feel like you can't have the career and you can't have the family and you can't have the you, you know, the self-care moments.

I wanted so desperately to have all those things and I knew that I had to just relinquish some of that to people around who were offering to help. A lot of it too was me just picking myself up by the bootstraps and saying, "All right, sis, you don't like this retail environment. You don't want to be on somebody's clock. You want to have autonomy over your time. You have a talent.

So what you should do is while you're at MAC Cosmetics as a manager and you're building this business for Frank and Frank, whoever they are, who I've never seen. How about you try to build a business for yourself? So that's when I said, I'm going to now. Once my husband made that promise to me, he was able to build up enough money.

build up enough credit in SAG as an actor doing commercials where he was able to now get health insurance for the family. So the real reason why I held on to the job at Mac was because I was the one that had the health insurance. We could tough it out if it was just me and him. But now that we had a child, we needed to be responsible. And I'm like, bro, I'm going to need to keep this job at least for the health insurance. So he said to me, listen, I'm going to book these commercials. I'm going to get this SAG health care insurance. That way you can pull back

And I kid you not, Sarah, we got to the mailbox one day, trucking in with the baby in the stroller and the laundry going up to our apartment in Brooklyn. And we opened the mail and we were looking at, I think maybe two weeks prior, looking at how much money he had to accrue in order to be eligible for that health insurance. So he needed something like $3,300 and like, say, $65, right?

So he's just like, damn, I just need this residual money to come in or I need to book one more commercial. So that way I'd be able to have this. And then you could just leave Mac. You could leave Mac. We opened this mail on the way in because I used to laugh and joke with him in the elevator on the way to the apartment door. He would just be opening his checks like, damn, how much money is going in this week? Like we're literally counting every check as it comes in.

And we get to the door and he opens a check and it was down to like the dollar of how much we needed to be eligible for that health insurance. And I remember him looking at me, he kind of stopped in his tracks and I saw his eyes well up and I was like,

What's the problem? What's the matter? I thought I didn't know what thought what happened at this point. I thought it was a bill. I was like, who wants money now? He ain't going to IRS. Like, who is it? And he turned the check around and showed me. And I kid you not, Sarah, it was like almost it was like $3,366. It was like down to the dollar of what we needed. And he was like, do you know what this means? And I was like, what? Like, I thought I knew what it meant. But I was like, let me know what it means. And he said, yo, you could leave Mac.

Like now I said, no way to vow. No way. So in that moment, we like hugged, we cried, we celebrated. I was like, let me put my little two weeks notice in. So what I ended up doing was leaving Mac full time as a,

a manager, but all of the knowledge that I had gained working as a manager, seeing how the business ran, seeing, you know, P&Ls and all those little things. I just took all of that and put it in my mental Rolodex. I said, you know what, when I start my own little makeup business, I'll be able to use those tools that I learned to then make it benefit me and not someone else.

So I left Mac full time. I was able to pull back and then become a freelance makeup artist so I could still at least be in the store to make contact with some of the people and the clients and stuff like that. Kind of keep myself abreast of what was happening in the field. But then I was able to now have my own makeup business where I was

doing weddings, I was doing photo shoots, I was doing fashion week, so many different things. That way I was able to now control my schedule and then make almost at some time, some months I was making three to four times more than what I was even making a month at Mac. So in that moment, I was like, you know what?

I'm going to find a way where I felt powerless to now take the power back into my hands, which I needed so desperately to find a way to make it work for me. And this in turn gave me the autonomy that I wanted over my time so I can invest in my family. I can invest in, you know, what I wanted to do for myself or what the next step was going to be for me or trying to find ways to build a nest egg so I can get back in front of the camera and not be a starving artist.

You know, so that's how I was able to kind of flip things. Now, you already know that I love the folks at Skillshare, their commitment to expanding our knowledge, purposely living out the saying, you learn something new every day and they mean it. Skillshare is sponsoring this episode and they're giving us a one month free trial on Skillshare dot com slash evolve.

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Okay. I wonder, cause you touched a little bit about how you and your husband basically were kind of trading places as it relates to like provision and providing for one another, which I feel like, I don't know. Do you think that, is that like an old school way of doing marriage where it's like, I don't necessarily need him to make more money than I do, or I don't have to be the breadwinner. She don't have to bring her or she's going to have to bring her own. Like my

parents very much so demonstrate this level of partnership. Like my dad was the breadwinner when they got married. He ended up having an accident and so my mom picked it up and that's kind of how I've been ingrained to like, yo, we in this together, you know? So like if you down, I'm up. And if I'm up, then you can take some time down.

But I feel like, I don't know. I feel like there's a narrative, whether it's true or not. I at least want to throw it out there. There's a narrative that like, you need to have your own. I need to have my own and don't expect for mine to ever become yours. Oh my goodness. That's some new age joints, Sarah. Yes. What is this?

And I don't know what that's about. I mean, I guess to some people's defense, we're dealing with a lot of different things now. Think about it, right? Social media, I think in itself is something that is a huge deterrent for some people because they feel like, you know, this is this extra entity that we have to now battle with when it comes to like the dating scene, for example.

But with Deval and I, we are, like your parents, very traditional. He's always also been very traditional in that even when we first started dating, he had every intention of saying, you know what? I am going to be the one to say pay the bills in the house. Anything that you bring in is supplemental. That's your money. You can do what you want with that. But me as the man of the house, I feel like it's my responsibility and my duty to make sure that at least the household bills are taken care of and that they're sustained.

Um, but when we were younger, we met at 18, well, we started dating at 18. We met at back in elementary school days, but it was a thing where in college when both of us had nothing really, um, he had his little meal plan. It had maybe like $1,800 a semester. You know, I had my little side gig job where I was just, you know, hustling and making pocket money. And it was a thing where if I

I got it. You got it. And there's no question about that. And there's some days when Deval, for example, when he retired from the NFL and came back home to Brooklyn,

With me that's when I took my ring off and went to mac and then I was the one that was making the money And supporting the family he was at home with the baby You know, and I know he had his moments where he felt like just as a man He was like man I can't be just sitting at home when my wife is getting up here going on the bus to work and i'm home you know, he definitely had those moments where he felt like You know i'm not doing what I should be doing as a man but with

At the same time, while he was raising our son, he was also starting up a training business. So the thing that I love with Deval and that some people feel like they shouldn't do nowadays is fall in love with someone's potential, right? Or fall in love with someone's ability or just have the foresight to see, wow, this person really, you know, is going to be something. And I believe that. I felt that early on with Deval when we met in college, our first conversation when we had our first date was,

We literally sat and spoke with each other, spoke to each other about our hopes, our dreams, the things that we want to do. I remember Martin was on TV and I'm sitting in his dorm room. I'm eating a sandwich and, you know, just kicking back, talking to him like he's an old friend. Mind you, we hadn't even really met ever. We just kind of saw each other passing over the years.

And I was like, yo, what you want to do with your life? I'm like, you in college, like, what are you in school for? What are you doing? And he's like, to be honest, I'm going to still use football as a vehicle for me to do that. And he pointed to the screen and it was Martin. And I was like, oh, I was like, you want to like film stuff or you want to be an actor? He's like, no, I want to be an actor so bad. Like that's, that's what I want to do. I just have

to figure out how to get there. And I was like, well, let's just make a plan. How are we going to do this? Because I want to be on TV too, you know? And it was just that conversation that then spiraled us into more things. But what I saw both of us had early on was the work ethic and the drive to be able to make that happen. So it was just easier for us because I felt like we had

a partner that helped us to kind of get into these fields that don't necessarily have like, you know, the point A to point B roadmap for you. It's one of those things where you really have to work to kind of find your way into the industry. So on those moments when he didn't have anything, I had it and it was vice versa. And that just worked really well for us. And I feel like it worked back in the day. Like you said, it worked for your family, right? Your mom and dad.

But a lot of people nowadays, I feel like there's a lot of like, this is mine, this is mine. They feel guarded in a sense, or they feel like they have to just kind of attain all the things and then keep that to themselves because for fear of just people wanting...

wanting things from them. You know, I've had conversations and I've overheard, you know, for example, females saying, hey, like, hey, I'm hungry. I want a meal today. Let me call up such and such and go on a date so he could pay for my dinner. Or, you know, that guy's being guarded now. That ain't it. That ain't it. You know, guy's being guarded now. Like, how am I going to date somebody if I don't even know if her intentions are pure? It's all about intentions and the purity of that.

I think that people are very, very leery of nowadays. And also too, you know, my mom has also raised me, you know, my mom came up from Jamaica when she was 17, worked really hard for everything on her own and then met my dad and they built together. But she's also too telling me, you know, Kadeem, you know, your husband is going to be the breadwinner and that's what he wants to do. And that's great. But ain't nothing wrong with having your own and ain't nothing wrong with

being the person that has a supplemental income. And ain't nothing wrong with having a little rainy day stash because you just never know. But one thing my husband and I are transparent about is that we know what's going on.

There's no hiding of money and all that. We both know what the accounts are, what the accounts are doing, when money is being transferred. We have those open discussions. We have the family pot. We have a little side money. If I want to get him a little something and he knows he's going to be checking my American Express, I'm like, bro, go check that one. You know, little things like that allow us the opportunity to have that fun.

That's so good. Your marriage has represented so much purpose for millennials, for sure. But I think in general, I think even those who are not millennials, I think you represent hope.

and the possibility that you can still have the dream, right? Like you can have the marriage, you can have the children, you can have this career and you can have fun, right? Cause y'all don't look like y'all sick of each other. Y'all don't look bored. You look like you actually enjoy one another. And like that is your partner. How much pressure is it to represent this dream for people while also navigating the reality of your own growth in your marriage? Yeah.

You know, it's funny. We feel like

Whenever we like Instagram, for example, is known to be a highlight reel, right? So people typically show the highs and everything that's happening. That's fun, which is what things started out for us. We would just kind of show all these happy, fun moments and stuff. But we also felt it necessary that while putting out the highlights and the good stuff, we had to speak on the tough times. And we had to speak on the times when we weren't necessarily on the same page. Along came the podcasts.

where we were able to, we joke about it and we say that we can read each other publicly as a form of therapy. But that's literally what the podcast is because we want people to know that, first of all, Deval and Kadeen are not Deval and Kadeen who just met two years ago and this is just how we miraculously became. We have been together, October will make 20 years together. So this has been 20 years of us investing in our relationship. This is 20 years of us waking up every day and finding out

you know, or deciding to ourselves that we wanted to be

In this relationship, it's 20 years of us deciding that, you know what? We want to be of service to each other. And that's something that we recently have been preaching on our podcast is that you should not want to be in a relationship unless you are deciding that you want to be of service to someone. If you're coming into a relationship and you are just thinking about self or you're just having this checklist of, I need this man to be this, this, that, that, that, and the third. But you look at your checklist and your checklist is not.

it's not matching up to what you're looking for, or you're just looking for what you can gain from another person, then that may not be the right motivation if you want to even be in a relationship. Relationships are about being of service to each other. And that's what Deval and I have been stressing. And that's why I think things work for us because we're purposely now waking up even more so because we have children, we have careers, we have so many things going on that it's easy to lose sight of

each other or it's easy to lose sight of that union sometimes. So waking up in the morning, I usually will turn over to him and I'll be like, so what can I do to make your day easier today? Or what do you have going on today that I can help with? Or that's how our conversations start in the morning usually or even end at night because we just always want to make sure that we're tapping into each other and making sure that we're okay and that we're actually okay and not just saying that.

So we owe it to people to let them know that this is great and all and it works and we have fun doing it and he's my person and as far as I know, I'm his person and everything is going well in that circumstance. But we also too have moments where things are not necessarily on the up and up and we talk about it and we're very transparent about the conversations that we have because we think it's necessary. Sarah, if I tell you how many people email us, DM us, send us notes to say,

y'all literally saved my marriage or you saved my relationship or you made me realize that I am not cut out to be in a relationship. These are things that people have told us. And it's funny when I think about like my purpose. Purpose for me was always a word that I was intimidated by because I felt like purpose meant it had to be some sort of

grand thesis statement about life or this mantra that I needed to have, like this one statement of who I am or what I am supposed to be. And what I've learned is that my purpose is fulfilling itself just through this ministry of being who I am and letting people see this is Kadeem. She's able to do these things. She's married to an amazing person.

She has amazing children and she's still able to continue to pour into herself. And if it means that other women are inspired by my story or if it means that other women can say, you know what, I've learned this from the Ellis's or I've just been able to get out of a dark spot because I was able to watch your content and it just pulled me out of that moment that I was in or it gave me hope.

then I feel like my purpose is being fulfilled in that sense. And that's been great for me. And that's a revelation that I've had recently because for a long time I was existing in the space of, I don't really know what my purpose is, but not knowing that I am living in it and I'm being of service to other people by being able to help other people in whatever facet of life they may need that help.

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Oh, girl, you are preaching because, man, I feel like purpose has been hijacked and it's all about achieving. And I think that what you just said there is it is about service. And anyone can be in purpose no matter what stage of their life they're in, no matter how much money is in their bank account, whether their dream has been fulfilled or not, by showing up with the heart posture to serve, serving your children, serving whatever you're doing at the job, not just showing up and getting the check, right?

but really serving to make whatever environment I'm in better as a result of me being connected to it. Like that is purpose to leave knowing that I made that person better. I made that project better for me. That's where I've received my sense of purpose. And it sounds like in your marriage that you're showing up with that mindset as well. And just being in purpose in marriage. I have to tell you the way that you do marriage sounds very similar to the way that I'm doing marriage. And I, this is my second marriage. I've been divorced twice.

And the first time I got married, I used to tell my mom, because we'd see couples who'd been married for 60 years. And I was like, why would anyone do that? You can have three great marriages in 60 years. Like, why would you do that? But now that I'm in this marriage, it takes all of me to show up and become one with this person and to serve their dreams. And I don't see how people are polyamorous. Because if you're showing up...

I'm tired. I don't have time. There's no room for no more love. I'm all loved out. This is it.

You sound like me. And I also feel like I'm touched out too, because I'm at the point now where I was like, listen, I have four kids. I have four children in me. Now I have one that's finally out, but he's still attached to the person. I got my husband wanting to touch me and then somebody else wants to hug me. And I'm like, is it a thing where you could just be touched out? Okay, let me tell you. Yes, let's talk about it. Let's talk about power and purpose and touching. Okay. I was listening to this podcast because I be...

be tight. Like I cuddle all day long. My baby girl, she loves cuddles. My son towers over me. He gives me these huge bear hugs like and it's great and it's beautiful. But sometimes I just don't need all of the touching. And, you know, and then but there is a time where you need to need the touching. And when you don't want the touching, but you need to need the touching, it'd be a disconnect. And I was listening to this podcast that was like if a woman

doesn't have an opportunity to reset from being like the mother and to live within her own body as a woman, then she cannot show up for her partner in a way that is sexy, that is available because she's all touched out. And like now I realize why I be irritated when it's like the moment the door closes is touch time because it's like I need a moment to reset and recenter. So I don't know. Maybe that's blessing somebody else. Like take a minute for you. Breathe in. Sarah.

It's a real thing, girl. I completely get it. And it's funny that somebody else said that because I thought that it was just me feeling some kind of way like, damn, like, just, I just want to be, you know, you know, you just want to do this. Like, yeah, okay. But yeah, there is a reset. And my husband had joked about, I think it was a video he did on Instagram or something that he needed to reset my freak level. And I'm just like,

I do need a reset button. I said, because, you know, I'm all for the shenanigans. Yeah, let's get it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do what we got to do. But let me, let me rebuild. I need a minute. Before you ready to jump my bones again, you know? And I feel like I do good on vacation, but that day to day life, that day to day life, I don't know where she is. I don't know where she is.

girl vacation me any day it was funny because somebody asked me about my sign or something and they said oh let me like read your sign or whatever I'm like okay cool whatever and she said something like you do well when you travel so I look at my husband I'm like see like traveling traveling is necessary for my psyche it's something about the ambience it's something about being disconnected it's

something about not having the kids nearby. I live with my parents as well too. Well, they live with us, I should say. So my parents are here full time. So sometimes my husband will come by and be wanting to do the butt grab or whatnot. And I'm just like, my dad is definitely standing right by the stove cooking and he can see you at any given moment, bro. And he's like, yeah, but it's my house and your father know how I stay. And it's just funny because I need to sometimes be in a different environment to just then...

reconnect to that. The butt grab. Okay, listen, I have heard that this is affection and it was hard for me to receive that as affection. Like we just had this conversation. Was it? Well, yeah, because I think when I think of affection, I think less like private body parts and more like hand holding and like caressing. Forehead kisses. Right. Not necessarily like let me just run up right up on it and grab it.

But I've had to like learn to receive, you know, this is your form of affection and I can receive that as long as there's also a balance with my form of affection. These marriage conversations, they be, they tight, they tight. Listen, they get complicated. You know, you talk about love languages and I feel like they have, what is it like four,

five love languages, but then they're all like subcategories within those love languages. So it's like when it comes to touch, what is touch exactly looking like for you and for me? So for my husband, he tells me that the butt grab is really his way of just letting me feel seen. So he wants me to understand it. He sees me. And I'm like,

like okay bro I appreciate that I appreciate that but then sometimes for me I kind of felt like that was the lead up to him wanting you you're rubbing it up yeah you warming it and I was like oh okay so you're trying to do this is like the foreplay to get there but then god forbid I be tired or not in the mood and I'm like oh lord now I gotta now he didn't grab my butt now I gotta find a way to is my is my is my freak level where is she where is she where is she at channeling her

Channeling her in. Channeling her in. I'm like, "Because I know where this is going. It's just not no innocent butt grab. It's a gut grab with intention." So now there's levels to the butt grab, girl. No. To me, it's always got intention to it. So I don't see it separate from affection, but yeah. Okay. Amen. Everything's fine. Agreed, girl. Agreed. We have an advice question.

This is why we have to have these conversations. - We do. - And this is why I told you that these are why podcasts are so important because so many times you feel like you're the only one dealing with something and it could be something simple and playful like we're talking about or it could be a bigger topic, but it's like, hey, at least I know. And what we found too, Devala and I in doing the podcast is that when we have listening letters and people write in and stuff,

It's not even just a man and all the men feel this way and then all the women feel that way. Sometimes I'm like, oh, I agree with this man right now. Like his wife is tripping or the vow will be like, I can't believe there's a woman with a higher sex drive or something. Like there's just so many things that are just people driven now and not necessarily man or woman thing. And we've learned that. And I think people find some kind of consolation in that now because they feel like, okay, at least I know I'm not crazy. My spouse is not necessarily crazy because other people kind of exist and

in this conundrum that we're dealing with right now, you know? That part, you convicted me with that part. I was like, at least I'm not crazy. And then you're like, at least he's not crazy. I had to receive that because it's so easy to be like, there's something wrong with you. But then you realize that a lot of this is just the human experience and being in relationship.

It really is. That's why I encourage people to now just really understand, like something I always aspired to do and be was a mother and a wife. Like that was always paramount for me. I knew early, excuse me. I knew early on in life that that's something that I wanted. And I say to people nowadays, you know, when they're debating about relationships and things like that, is this something that you really want? Is this something that you're cut out for? Because there will be a lot less hurt people if people are

not showing up to interactions as representatives of themselves and they're showing up as their true self and what they really want. So that way, at least it gets a lot of the guessing out of the way. Give people the choice to decide whether or not they want to interact with you in whatever capacity that is.

I cannot stand to have my choice taken away from me. Don't show up to me with no representative. Let me know what it is off the bat. So then I can now be afforded the choice and the opportunity to decide if this is something that will be fulfilling for me or not. And too many people nowadays, I feel like are just, especially with social media, you have this representative of who you are. There's this resume for lack of a better word that people are walking around with now socially or on media.

And it's like, you know, is this really who you are? You know, is this just your persona? You know, are you meant to be in a monogamous relationship? Maybe you're not meant to be in a monogamous relationship. Maybe you are just meant to be somebody who dates around. So if you're transparent about that out front, then you can probably meet

somebody who's willing to just want to date around and y'all can exist in y'all little space over there. And then people who are intentional about being together can try to find somebody to be together with in a companionship. So it's just, it's just funny how things are starting to kind of, um, manifest itself in a way where Deval and I feel like at least, um,

you know, the podcast episodes and like the things that we're doing and the things that we're putting out there on social media are speaking to people in different ways where they know that they want to be a part of something or not. So that's been great for us to see. And I love that you make it, you make it look fun, but you make it real. It doesn't necessarily look easy. And I don't think it should look easy because that's why people run up on it and then have heart attacks. So they're like, oh my gosh, nobody told me it was going to be like this. It was all this.

Yes, absolutely. But you make it look real and that's what we need. Yeah, I mean, I think too, that's the reason why Deval and I were able to kind of sustain this over the course of the past almost six years is because we're not constantly on a trend or trying to like follow something that's been done already. We're just existing in our space and we're sharing, you know, accordingly the way we want to. I know so many people feel like, oh my God, we know so much about the Ellis's and we know everything about the Ellis's.

The funny thing is, y'all know like this much. I believe that. If you think about a day. Yeah. You think about a day. There's 24 hours in a day. How many minutes is that? You see a one-minute video. That's not even the tip of the iceberg of what exists in our space. I saw a meme recently that said like the best...

the best people are not the best people, but like people who know how to be publicly, to be either publicly private or to exist privately in a public space like social media have the recipe figured out. And I feel like that's us. I feel like we do have a lot of private things that we don't share or just things that we keep to ourselves.

just because it's sacred to us or it's just for our own sanity. But then we do have the stuff that we're willing to share because we want to be able to share. So it's a great balance for us because we're able to do both. You know, we can have the fun, but we can be real. We can have the moments where we tell people like, okay, this happened and it wasn't necessarily a good thing, but here was the outcome or here's how we dealt with it.

And having those different mediums, for example, the podcast and then the Instagram or the YouTube, people are able to get different things from different avenues. So it works out. As someone who grew up as the child of someone who was in the spotlight, that my parents keeping something that was just for us, just sacred to us, helped us to not feel like we were sharing them with the world. So when a lot of people, a lot of times people are like, thank you for sharing your parents with the world. And it's like,

I didn't really share them with the world. Like I understand what you're saying, but there's parts of them that like no one will ever see but us. And that's why I love going home is just 'cause I know what I'm getting. Like I'm not getting Bishop T.D. Jakes. I'm not getting First Lady Sarita Jakes. There are parts of your family

that are so sacred and so holy. So I don't know if that's, you know, maybe that's just a seed for you to keep in your heart as you raise these babies and allow us a peek into your life that there's a way that you can do it and not lose out on those intimate moments with your family as well. For sure. Oh, thank you for that. That's actually a little nugget that I'm going to take because that's something that I...

battle with is how long I want to continue this social media presence, how long I want to continue even just having my children involved in our social media, because as things continue to grow, my husband's acting career, my career, like as they continue to grow, I always want to make sure that my children know that home is a safe space and people don't always have the best intentions. So it's nice to hear that from someone who

is the child of two parents who were always in the spotlight because sometimes you kind of feel like, damn, there's no hope now because they've already been put out there. How do I reel that back in? You know, but they're still young enough where we still can kind of maneuver accordingly. And we just do it like that now with the kids. Like for example, our third son, Kaz, he's not a camera person. He's never been, he's never been wanting to be in front of the camera like that. So we just respect that and we just don't put him in front of the camera.

Then we have our middle. Well, he's not the middle anymore. He's our second because I keep forgetting our second son, Cairo. He's the ham. He's the performer. He's the entertaining. He's the one grabbing the camera from us to be on camera. Then I have my oldest now who's starting to get into the preteen phase. He'll be in middle school next year. So he's just like too cool for the camera, you know?

So there are different phases that they're in. And I always, as their mom, just want to make sure that they're comfortable, that they feel protected and that they feel like they're getting the best versions of myself and my husband. One thing that I've practiced is a self-care routine.

thing for myself and self-care practice, I would say over the past two years now, is just putting my phone away. I put my phone down. A lot of my work is done on my phone, social media. Sometimes there's these moments where I catch myself in that aimless scrolling just to be scrolling. And I'm like, what am I doing with my time right now? I could be doing so much more. And I remember my second son, Cairo, when we were living in California like two years ago, I was in the middle of posting something for work and

Then he's having a conversation with me and I'm kind of side listening, but not really listening. And I'm like, yeah, babe. Yeah. Like, yeah. And he literally was like, mommy, I'm talking to you. Put your phone down. And he was maybe like three at the time, you know, he said it in his little voice. I'm talking to you. You're not talking to me. Put your phone down. And I was like, not my three-year-old over here scolding me, but he's right. He's checking.

in me and he was absolutely right in that moment so i've learned to also just disconnect now to the point where sometimes even our manager be like girl where you at i'm like listen i put my phone down i know you're used to having instant access to me a lot of people are used to having instant access to people but i feel like we also need to practice moving forward and giving people space giving that 24 hour time for return of a call or a text message you know what i mean because that instant gratification life that we're living in now where people want it now now now

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We have an advice question. I have to ask you. We're almost running out of time, but I can't let you get off that easy, okay? Okay, got you. Okay, so it says, Hi, I'm a part of the delegation, and I have a question. I have a younger sister who is expecting a baby with her boyfriend. They recently moved in together, but have not yet gotten married. Their relationship has been up and down, and if I'm being honest, I am not fond of her boyfriend. But...

As a big sister, I've tried my best to support her, especially since she's having a baby with him. I know it's not my place to tell her how to live her life because I know that she will eventually figure things out, even if it's the hard way. I guess my question for you is how do I show her the love of Christ without being too overbearing? I try to show love to both her and her boyfriend because I feel it's the right thing to do. But every time I hang out with them or step foot in their apartment, I

feel like I'm doing something wrong. Are there certain boundaries I should have as far as hanging out with them? I don't know. I may be overthinking this, but I'd appreciate your advice. Okay. I think she kind of almost answered her question in the question is that she is

showing up for her sister the way that she feels like she needs to because ultimately that's her sister and they have their relationship but it can be difficult when you start to add people into it so along come boyfriends or spouses or things like that um i think she should just continue to be of a support system to her sister because eventually she will figure things out

And maybe she won't, but she will also need her sister. And I know how close I am to my sister. My sister and I are 10 years apart. And she does definitely lean a lot on my advice. And she comes to me for advice. So I'm wondering if her and her sister have the kind of relationship where her sister would feel comfortable coming to her or she can go to her sister, feel comfortable and say, hey, sis, you know, I'm just wanting to tap in. I don't want to

cry. I don't want to overstep, but you know, I just want to make sure that you're okay. So I think if she always puts her sister first and then now her pending niece or nephew, since her sister's pregnant, always putting them first by that outpour of love, at least the sister will know that she has that support. And, you know, you can't really,

step foot into other people's relationships because it was the other way around. I don't necessarily have to understand my sister's relationship, but her happiness is of importance to me. So as long as her sister doesn't seem like she's in sort of detrimental situation or she's being hurt or she's being abused, I think it's fair for her to just be at least that support system from afar and let her sister know that she has her whenever she needs her.

That's so good. There's such a fine line between being someone's support system and being their controller, being in charge of their decision making. And a lot of times we say we're there for you, but it's as long as you're living your life according to the way that I think you should live it. The moment that you step out of those boundaries of what I think you should be doing, you no longer have my support. And that's why relationships, especially with family, can get very problematic.

precarious. But when you tell someone you're there for them, you got to mean it. Even if you make a decision I don't agree with, even if I don't always understand what you're doing with your life, I'm going to be there with you to pick up the pieces. And I think that would change the way we devote our loyalty to people because a lot of times our loyalty is based off of their actions. But when you're in connection with people,

the way that you are with a family member. It's supposed to be that whatever you need, I can be here for you and I can love you through everything regardless. And it sounds like you have an opportunity to demonstrate that type of love, but you will have to relinquish your need to be in control of her life so that you can be there in her life. And that's going to take some hard work for you so that she can be open and honest with whatever she needs when the time comes. Yeah.

No, I completely 100% agree with that. I do. I look at my sister now and it's like, she's like my baby. You know, we're 10 years apart. So I'm like, girl, you know, the good thing is that at least I feel like we've had this open door where she can literally come to me with anything. So I respect the fact that she's making these decisions. She may come to me for advice. And you know how sometimes people come to you for advice. You give this really great advice. You package it up real nice with a bow on top. And then they still do something else. And you're just like, well, why'd you come to me, Ed?

the device i gave you some sound well thought out advice and then you still did what you want to do anyway um but i've learned to also realize that people may ask advice because they want to kind of see different options and different pictures and ultimately they're going to do what they want to do anyway so sis i'm gonna sit back here you can make a decision whatever happens the outcome i'm still gonna be here and i'm still gonna love you and we're still gonna have our relationship intact

because that's just people. That's humans. That's people's role. You have to respect their choices. I had a sibling who I wasn't agreeing with and I caught myself icing them. If you don't do what I need you to do, then we're not going to be talking the way that we was talking and I'm going to ice you real good. Then I saw that sibling was really about to move on with their life and I was like, hold up. What you're not going to do is be in this world without me. Yeah.

Let me get me together. Exactly. Because I bet you won't. It'll never be I ain't talked to my sister in 10 years. Never. Not in this lifetime. Can you imagine? No. Oh, no. No, I can't ice you, but you're not about to ice me. Absolutely not. Okay, I can't even talk about the icing competition here.

So I went on and melted my ice. I love that. Kadeen, I love you. Thank you so much for this. This has been amazing. I love you back, sis. It's been such a great time. Thank you for having me. Like I said, happy Women's History Month to everyone. I appreciate you even just seeing me fit to come and be a part of such a great company. So I love you for that, sis. Thank you. I mean, congratulations to you and all the amazing things you've done. I still got to dive into your book, but every time I pull up a book to read, I follow up

I fall asleep. I need to find the energy. I understand. That's fair. That's fair. You know what I'm going to do? It's going to be baby steps for me, and what I need to do is just tell my husband, "Listen, travel, vacation." Yes. "I'll get some time to read some books, some me time. We get some us time." Yes. It's giving. There you go. Exactly what it's supposed to. 2022, hopefully things will be looking up where we can travel a little bit more freely. Yes, I love that. I'm sending you good travel vibes.

I love that. Thank you so much, Sarah. Thanks for having me. Bye. All right. Take care, y'all. Bye. Kadeen, thank you for being an even more open book for myself and the delegation. I was not expecting for us to go into the grab, but we went into the grab and I feel seen and loved and known. Your authenticity and being such a beautiful representation of Black love has been amazing to witness.

Delegation, y'all been heavy in the comments and my DM saying either you or someone you know should be my next co-host. Let's make this thing happen. Email a one to two minute video to podcast at womanevolved.com and let us know what makes you a great co-host and what can the delegation learn from you. If co-hosting isn't your jam, but you have an advice question, send it to this same email Addy and guess what? We got you.

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Hello. From Wonder Media Network, I'm Jenny Kaplan, host of Womanica, a daily podcast that introduces you to the fascinating lives of women history has forgotten. Who

Who doesn't love a sports story? The rivalries, the feats of strength and stamina. But these tales go beyond the podium. There's the team table tennis champ, the ice skater who earned a medal and a medical degree, and the sprinter fighting for Aboriginal rights. Listen to Womanica on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.