How to be a Successful Online Coach with Dawnna St. Louis
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The first challenge people run into is, what is my expertise? Is it valuable? Usually they can't even see it. Okay, interesting. So first we find that expertise

and then define the value of that expertise and then figure out, so who actually wants it? Who's your dream client versus your ideal client versus the people you need to disqualify completely from the world, right? And the biggest thing people run into is the fear of disqualification. My name is Rudy Moore, host of Living the Red Life podcast, and I'm here to change the way you see your life in your earpiece every single week,

If you're ready to start living the red life, ditch the blue pill, take the red pill, join me in Wonderland and change your life. Guys, what's up? Back for another episode of the red life. Got Dorna here, another local in Tampa.

and someone that had a similar journey to me, understood the coaching space, and I think that's how we first connected. My background, as many of you know, started in fitness, built a coaching business, and now you help people like me 10 years ago that had knowledge, had expertise, had passion. I'm like, how do I make money with this thing and impact the world, right? And that's what you do now, right?

But I do want to start a little further step back because you built a $200 million company that you sold before that journey. Yeah. Right. So how did you go from doing that, retiring for 30 days after you sold the $200 million company to now helping the coaches? Give us the story. The cliff notes is that so I had this amazing company. We were doing great in the tech space.

I retired for 30 days and people were asking me to come back really and be a speaker. OK, so then I became this international speaker and people in the speaking world kept asking me, how are you doing that? I've been doing this for 10 years and I can't crack two dollars and you're getting paid twenty five thousand dollars to stand on stage. And and honestly, I didn't want to be a coach. I was like, this is not the gym for me. I'm never going to be a coach.

I'm just going to speak, but I kept getting people going, we need you to go deeper. We need you to go deeper. So two things happened. First, I started coaching people that were in my speaking audience and specifically coaching in sale. And then I started coaching people who wanted to basically follow my footsteps. And then I'm like,

damn it, I'm a coach. What I love about the coaching space, and you obviously help people do this, which is cool, is there's so many amazing experts and people in the world. The sad part, and I came from the sports science world with a lot of world-class experts that were helping people figure out diseases and diseases

health hacks and living longer and crazy things, but no one knows who they are. Right. Yeah. Right. And that is the big missing piece for a lot of people is you can be wild class at what you do, unless you can figure out how to actually build a business out of it. You can't impact people, which is why every single one of them starts. Yeah. Right.

So how do you, if someone's listening now, they want to become a coach, they have an expertise, they have a skill. And by the way, I've seen every wild coaching business you could imagine. You too, right? Yes. Like every wild thing that someone could do or teach on, I've seen it. So don't ever limit your mindset. Right. Thing that you can't do it. If someone was trying to start out coaching, what would you say? What are the steps?

The first thing I would tell them, the people that come to me, really, the number one challenge they have is the burden of brilliance. I like that. They're usually too smart. Like if somebody came to me and like, Donna, this is all I know how to do. I'm like, dude, you're going to be a millionaire in three days because they only have one thing to pick from. And so it's kind of easy to follow the methodology. The first challenge people run into is,

What is my expertise? Is it valuable? Usually they can't even see it. Okay, interesting. So first we find that expertise and then define the value of that expertise and then figure out, so who actually wants it? Who's your dream client versus your ideal client versus the people you need to disqualify completely from the world, right? Yeah, yeah.

And the biggest thing people run into is the fear of disqualification. Yeah, we talked about that. And they're scared because they don't have the money and income. But that scarcity that forces them to go abroad actually hurts them even more because they don't speak to anyone. If you want more dollars in your bank account, more commas in your bank account, you got to take them out of your expertise. Yes. Like you legitimately have to take them out of your expertise. If you are serving everyone...

on everything you're serving, no on a nothing. Like it just doesn't work. Yeah. And those are top two. And I did this. So I started in health and fitness. I'm like, I can help with weight loss. Right. I help everybody with weight loss. Yeah. And then, and then I realized I like started testing stuff and, you know, I figured it out by myself years ago. Um, and I got to like, Hey, I can help women and then I can help women get a bikini body. And

And then I kind of like that became my niche. And it's I guess I got lucky because I just kept testing things. Right. And I fell into it. And I'm like, and I'm like, I can help women that want a bikini body using science. Right. And that was like my thing. And I helped, you know, tens of thousands of people. So what is the process you take your clients through to start pulling that out of them? Yeah, we actually take we actually have a test where we ask these questions in regards to understanding there is a difference between your tools.

your talent and your actual expertise and skills. Okay, interesting. Right? So most people, what they do is they screw up and they try to sell their talent. Okay.

It makes a completely non-scalable business. You can't scale that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we really go, oh, wait, no, you're using your talent. You're using the tools. The tools actually don't belong to you. Like I'm a Six Sigma master black belt as well as a certified project management professional, and I can write code in nine different languages, right? Yep. Those are tools. Those don't actually belong to me. I use them in my business. You see what I mean? Yeah, for sure. That is quite different from my expertise, which is put

putting frameworks and methodology. Yeah, to give results, right? Like, I teach that a lot. I mean, we get so obsessed and I remember back when I was 18 and as a PT, a personal trainer, I had a list in the gym on my bio of the 27 certificates I had and it didn't get me clients. Yeah, and now, and I like leveraged it a little but now,

But now I understand like, hey, what I should have done is talked about who I am and how I can change their life, make their life better, the pain they're in, where they want to get to, and what I use and I've used with hundreds of clients. People care about proof of results. They care about

Can you help that change their life? Exactly. And so the next thing we do is we look at what they actually do amazingly well, and we turn it into a methodology. And the reason we do that is because if you want to have a sustainable coaching business, you have to have a repeatable methodology. Yes, I like that. Because nothing pisses me off more than someone's like,

Well, what we do is we go with our gut. Yeah. And I'm like, no, you're winging it. You're winging it with people's monies and lives. Like, actually, you should have a place that they're starting and working them through. Well, all the opposite I find with experts where they personalize everything and they see that as the holy grail and they live by it, which is great. But it's also like, hey, you can only help 10 people, not help 10,000 people. And yes, it might be 10% worse.

'cause you're having to standardize some things, right? And create those frameworks, but you're gonna help 10,000 people instead of 10. - Right. - Right? - And what people really want in the coaching role, I actually just did a survey on this on my page, and I was just like, what is the number one thing you want from your coach? There were two, top two answers.

I want a strategy or framework. Sure. And access. Access, yeah. Top two things. So they're not asking for your coaching certification. Yeah. They're asking literally, I want a framework. In other words, I want to know where I am and I want to know where we're going. I like it. And I want access. In other words, when I'm stuck, can I reach out to you? The thing that I actually put in my coaching program, which is a little different, is I have this thing called the Common Sense Coaching Calendar.

Right. You can get on my calendar. There is no you can only meet me on Friday at 1.30 for an hour. You can get on my calendar. You can text me. You can call me. Right. It's not a problem.

But don't abuse it. Yeah. And somebody said to me one time, well, that case, I can get on your calendar every day. I said, again, it's called a common sense coaching calendar. And if you can't figure that out, you're not my client. Yeah. I like that. So what do you think if people are listening to this, they're working in a job right now or their personal trainer and they want to change their life, you know, like we say, take the red pill, create a life of their dreams, right? Mm-hmm.

How much can they earn with coaching? Oh, my God. I mean, we're actually looking at, okay, so how do we scale to 5 million? We're thinking that, right? That's just our second year going, we're really going to structure this out. Even though I've been coaching for a very long time, when I came to you, I was like, okay, I'm going to stop screwing around and actually build a business now. And so the amount that you can earn is ridiculous. I have...

One client that I know in Chicago, they run a 150, $200 million coaching firm. So the thing that makes it scalable

is having a framework and a methodology. Without it, you can't scale. Yeah. I mean, I think I'll get my coaching part with like the back ends behind it. I think it can be a hundred million, right? With all the people that come through and what I do with them on the back end as well. And it's like, I went from $20 an hour as a personal trainer to that

So what if someone wants to do their first 10K a month or they want to do 100 grand a year with coaching? What would you say? What would they sell? How much they sell it for? How would they start? Well, actually, I'll give you a real life person. So I just had a client sign up with me less than 60 days ago.

And the first thing we did was identify specifically what her area of expertise was. And then I said, now what you're going to do is you're going to go slide into people's DMs and you're going to sell a challenge. Like day one, that was the first thing that I said to her because we whittled out her expertise so quickly that we were able to go do that. So here she goes, she goes, you're kidding me. I'm like, no, do it right now. Right.

She goes and sells 120 people into this $99 challenge. Wow. Like straight off. So there is a quick 12 grand. And then I go, great. Now that we have that, all this time that she's been doing that, we're literally figuring out what's your signature program. Because the first thing I tell the coach they have to have is a signature program. So now that she's doing that, I'm like, so now that you can do that, we're going to go set up your signature program that you're going to pre-sell. Yeah.

So here it is. We're not even 60 days in yet. And she just sent me a note actually a few minutes ago. She's now at $65,000.

We're not even 60 days in. So how much can they make? How much do you want to make? Yeah. And yeah, that's the decision. Right. So so we talked a lot about coaching, coaching businesses. I mean, it's a fantastic way to make money online. It's what I started in 10, well, 12 years ago, and I've made lots of money doing it and help lots of people just like you have. Let's talk a little about like before that journey. So talk about the 200 million dollar plus business and lessons learned building that. Yeah.

So actually, it's kind of interesting because a lot of people made this assumption that you go from a $200 tech business where you're working with the government to doing this business. It was a cakewalk, right? Absolutely not. The number one thing that I learned, and I will say even that I've learned from you, is over there, we were a small, small set aside minority owned business. And so honestly, we didn't have to market. We barely even had to have a brand.

On this side of it, whereas you even kind of tease me like, why don't I know you? You're doing all this stuff. And then you told me straight up, this is my coach coaching me. I don't know you because you're hiding and that's your fault. I was like, gee, thanks, Rudy. So it's like you're hiding like you can't be this badass and I don't know you. You're hiding. And so the one thing that I'm really getting very clear about or have gotten very clear about is.

You got to be bold, audacious, unapologetic in who you are and you have to put it out there 100 percent. And you have to be what I called it today was obnoxiously omnipresent. But I've noticed you started doing that since we met and worked together. How did that help? How did that change things? Well, it's actually funny because I'm I'm you know, I've always been one of those people is like, God, you know, people say I'm intimidating or I'm too direct or whatever. And I'm like,

And I'm trying to go, well, no, I can be nice. You can come in. I don't, you know, I stopped eating my young like two weeks ago. Right. So it's all good. And now I'm kind of like, screw it. You know what? I still eat my young. I'll probably eat yours too. Bring your shit and let's get it fixed. You know? Yep. So, so really just owning that I am direct. And people don't come to me because I'm going to cuddle them. They come to me for the hard honest truth. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a second. Before we go into the rest of this episode, I'm going to interrupt abruptly and just ask

ask you one big favor. I hope you're getting a ton of value, a ton of knowledge. I hope you're getting some breakthroughs from myself and the guests. And I want one thing in return. What I would love is for you to subscribe and leave a review. The reviews and the subscription grows the podcast. It allows me to bring you even better guests. It allows me to invest even more time and money

into this podcast to bring you the latest and greatest, the best entrepreneurs from around the world that are crushing life, crushing their business and giving you all the tools, the mindset hacks, the knowledge and the environment you need to be successful. So do me a favor, if you've got any amount of value from today's episode so far or any previous episode or any of the content I've done, it would mean the world to me if you hit a five star review, give us your feedback on the show, the episodes

and subscribe and download. Plus, if you do that and send me a screenshot on Instagram at RudyMoreLife, I will send you a bunch of my free training, marketing courses, sales courses worth $499. Yes, $500 worth of courses.

for a simple 30 second review. It would mean the world to me. Send me that screenshot. I would love for you to leave that review and I would appreciate it very, very much so we can keep growing this show and make it awesome. So let's get back into the episode. I appreciate you guys and let's dive back in. And that comes back to what we said right at the start of knowing who you are, who you speak to,

don't say like, don't be neutral, right? Right. Where you blend in, it's like a gray area and it's like a bland, right? There's nothing to pull you apart to make you stand out. And it's so funny because I coach my people on that, like nobody's business. I'm like, just say it, just go, you know. But that's all the world's top people have coaches. Right. Like the best basketball players in the world are better than the basketball coaches they have.

And it's always like it's easier outside the forest to see it when you're in the middle of the forest, right? Yeah. I mean, and it's one amazing thing about our relationship is that you're very clear, like, you got to do more of this. You know, it's not that you suck. You know what you're doing. You got to do more of it. But even when I owned an agency, we didn't run many of our own ads because we were so obsessed with the clients. So I feel you're the same there. Like, I'm very obsessed with the clients and that's great.

But it's just like self-care, right? Eventually you have some self-care for yourself of, hey, my business still needs to grow so I can help more of those clients. Yeah, you know what's so funny about...

And it's funny because I'll tell people in a heartbeat, don't hire a coach that doesn't have a coach. It's like going to a doctor who doesn't believe in medicine. Like, what the hell? So many coaches, however, especially the new coaches, their ego gets in their way and they don't want people to know they have a coach. And the first thing I say is, you know, I know you suck as a coach because you don't have a coach. It also goes against.

something that has been around in business for a hundred years, which is boards of directors. Every billion dollar brand has a board of directors, which is basically coaches and consultants advising the CEO, Jeff Bezos. Every one of them have a board of directors to give opinions on their subject matter. Exactly. Right. And to give outside opinions. So it's like,

and every Olympic athlete, I always use like Olympic athletes or pro sport. They have a physical therapist, a dietitian, a psychologist, a strength coach, a secondary strength coach, two skill coaches. And,

and everything else, right? Yeah, mindset coach. Yeah, they probably have like 10 coaches. But then like, yes, like you said, you get these 25-year-olds that make some money online and now they're like Superman, right? And that's just age experience, whatever, right? Even the people that I get that are more mature, they should know better. They actually kind of hide it. Interesting. Which I think is so interesting. And so the one thing that I will tell you

especially as of recent, is anytime I see a challenge that's going on with my own business,

that I don't blame the outside force for that challenge. I look internally and go, how in the hell can I fix that? So one of them is that I have to raise, and this is what I'm learning from that old business to this business, I have to raise my brand up so high that it's actually a benefit to my clients to say I'm their coach. Yeah, of course. That's number one. And then the number two thing that I learned from my old business that I definitely use in this one is this.

if you can't sell, you don't have a business. And people literally think like their expertise is so badass that people are just going to run at them. And I'm like, honey, please. Well, and we pair that with what I teach about the attention and eyeballs, right? Like,

If you can, even if you can sell and you're an expert, but no one you have no one to sell to. Right. You're still going to suck. Right. It's like you need the attention. You need to be able to sell that. And then you obviously need to fulfill on it. And most people are like they're on that end of the spectrum. They can fulfill on it. They're experts. Like you're saying they have no clue how to sell. And even when they figure that out, then they need people to sell to.

And like that's how simple a coaching business can be. Absolutely. Yeah. Eyeballs, sell those eyeballs and then service those eyeballs. And one of my favorite examples to use is Apple. So Apple is a trillion dollar evaluated company. Right. So here it's worth a trillion dollars. And everyone knows when I say Apple, I'm not talking about the thing you pluck off. Yeah. They know what I'm talking about. And yet they have. Wait for it.

salespeople. If Apple has salespeople, damn well better believe that you have to be able to sell. And I don't mean push and be obnoxious, but you do have to be able to have an effortless sales conversation. Well, that's the stigma of sales. And I think I had that like 12 years ago because when you're a teenager and you watch a movie on sales, it's like a cartoon, right? As a kid,

It's like a sleazy car salesman that's chasing you out the parking lot. I think almost society like ingrains that as like a kind of character. But you realize actually really good sales is like what some people call consultative sales, where you're helping someone figure out a decision that's going to change their life and benefit their life. Absolutely. And here's the real truth about coaching. And this is where people really get screwed up. That your expertise is actually only one twelfth

one twelfth of your entire business. I'm going to give them to you really super quickly. You got to have your expertise, your ideal client, your product, your offer, whatever you want to call it. Yeah.

You have to market it. You got to engage. You got to sell. That's how you go from expertise to money. Then you have to have a process. Like people come in, you got to now deliver the crap, right? Got to have process. You got to have other people because it can't just always be you. And you got to have technology to support it. Got to have goals. Got to have a mission. And you got to have a vision. That's 12 things. Yes, I like that. If you think your expertise is enough.

Well, what's funny is those 12, as you were going through them in my head mentally, I was going through my fitness business, my first business. We got to about 5 million in revenue and I had all 12.

But it took me seven years of building and four years of failing and then just keep learning books, courses, every podcast, every book, everything possible to figure those out the hard way. And that's the beauty of coach. I was too young and, you know, whatever to know that I could have just hired a coach at 18. Right. And that could have cut if I found a good one that could have told me those 12 and cut those four years.

And luckily I got through that four year gap at such a young age and it was only four years, right? 18 to 22, 22 to 24. I graduated and stuff. Then boom, I started to grow. But most people, I guess, will like be like in 20 years of that or never get out of it. And that's when they'll like think business doesn't work or online business doesn't work or coaching doesn't work. But really they've just not found the coach and the framework to pull them out of it. And that framework that that 12 parts are 12.

are 12 parts of my framework that literally I built. So that framework actually started as a college project. And the way we built the business intelligence company was literally to prove that the framework worked. Nice. And here's the best part of it. So we go in to do this presentation and get our first million dollar contract. We're so psyched we win the contract. Turned out that the

Contract is priced like $2 million under, which means that we're going to be $2 million in the hole at the end of the contract. We had no choice but to go get other contracts to cover the shortfall of this contract. And that's how we ended up building our business. But it was really, listen, we knew how to put a business together.

At the time, we sucked at pricing. Yeah. Clearly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Right. But that is the framework that we use to help people first turn their expertise into money. Yeah. And then how to have a consistent growth scale and delivery. I love that. So last couple of questions. So you get to work personally with me and spend time with me and learn from me. A lot of people obviously followed me for a long time, fans of mine and stuff, and learn from afar, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Anything you would share, like what you've learned from me and your takeaways from getting more time? Yeah. I'll tell you. I'll tell you. I'll tell you a quick story and then I'll tell you another thing. So the number one thing that happened recently and I told you this on the phone recently, I said, you inspired me. And the reason I said that was because I accidentally fell.

made a quick like $30,000 on an event. And then on top of it, that event is probably going to make a couple hundred thousand dollars when it takes off. And so the number one thing that I'll tell anyone is that get a coach you want to model. If you have this coach that you can't model, that they're not doing what you want to do in the marketplace, you have the wrong coach. So find someone you want to model first for your entire business coaching area. And then I would say the second thing is

You know, you had Dan Henry here today, and then, of course, there's you. And the one thing that I think that I forgot is that, and you wrote it today, is you wrote me a permission slip to be my bold, audacious, edge-snatching, don't-give-a-shit self and actually make sure that people know that, you know what, I am the coach's coach, and I actually do give a crap about your business. Well, the problem is society compares.

suppresses that. Yeah, even me and you, it's like training a muscle. It's like going to the gym is hard enough, but what society does is when you go into the gym, they give you a flat tire and then you get to the gym and the gym door's closed, so you've got to go and find another gym and now it's raining and you have no car and you're stood outside a closed gym and then you get to the next gym and you forgot your underwear and your shorts and your gym gloves. But that's what society does with entrepreneurship and success, right? Because

Everyone, you know, and that's the point of the red life is when you go around people that are living the red life, as I would call it, people that are successful, we all like, we'll give you a ride to the gym and then we'll say, come to my gym and I have spare gym clothes you can use, no problem. You know, the sad part of reality is 99% of people are popping your car tires

And then they're locking the gym doors when they see you walking across the parking lot. And half of them aren't doing it intentionally because it's just a reflection of themselves, but it's happening, right? So you being in the room, you already knew that, but then you just got, I just gave you my gym clothes. Yeah, basically. Yeah, and sometimes you just need that. And that's the importance of being in the right room. It's the importance of hiring coaches, right?

Right. And it's the importance of surrounding yourself with people further ahead than you are on the same journey. Yeah. And so so when I use the term and I and I use this term, it is it's a playful term, but you have to understand what it means to the person who's saying it. When I said be obnoxiously omnipresent, it's not because I'm telling the people to be obnoxious.

I'm saying that for the person who's never done it before, it's going to feel that way. So if you just own the fact that you're going to freaking feel it, then you'll do it. Yeah. It feels, it's like over-exaggeration of a point, right? It's like, if you want to do something, like it's like when people want to lose weight, they like, Oh,

overly like push it, right? They'll put signs on their fridge door, don't eat this, right? And they'll take food out of their house and they'll do all these crazy things to support the goal, which I think is good. Right. But when you become a pro athlete and you've had a six pack for 12 years, you don't have to do it. You don't have to do all that. It's now subconscious. Because now it's a part of you. That's why I'm literally going be obnoxiously omnipresent. Yes.

Because at some point it won't be obnoxious and it'll just be omnipresent. And it'll feel great. It'll be okay. I get excited and it feels great every day. Everyone sees my ads. The red's everywhere. We're crazy. We've got a crazy culture and people come in and love it. But like, yes, at times it's like, is this a little too much? Is this weird? Like, is this the right move? And that's just like, that's the subconscious again, pushing into you. Right. And if it feels like it's a little too much, you probably should do it. Exactly. So, so look, who are the, who are your best clients?

My best clients are people who recognize that they're experts. Yeah. And they want to turn that expertise into a high profit business. That's number one. And the other one are people who are currently coaching. And for some reason, that feels like it's stalling out. Like, like, I don't know how to take it from I'm chasing clients to actually having a steady stream of clients and a scalable business. Those are the two things they're looking for. And where do they find you?

firebrand.net, which is actually spelled funny, just saying, because we are rebels. It's spelled F-Y-R-E-B-R-A-N-D. Okay. And I do like that because it's part of you and the difference, right? Standing out. And obviously the red is that for me. So I love that.

Good. So I appreciate you coming on and sharing that. I mean, hopefully this inspired people because I do think coaching is one of the best ways to create your dream life. It's been part of my life for 10, 12 years. You've helped hundreds of people doing it. You're helping people every day. So are we. So I appreciate you sharing that knowledge and hopefully inspiring people to start that journey or get that journey going. Totally cool. Thanks for having me.