The Smartest Insurance Strategy No One Talks About
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Every business is eventually going to want to grow and then eventually want to scale. You have to remember as entrepreneurs and business owners, we know how much money we can get. So we don't have a cap on that. But the people that you want working for you that maybe are W-2s, they don't have that same mindset. They want security and safety. And benefits are some of the

biggest things that employees are chasing. - Yeah, I think to a lot of the employees, it's not even for them, it's their nagging spouse. - We call it spouse in the house. You have one that works and one that doesn't, or one that's an entrepreneur and one works. My situation, my wife has a W2 job, great job. She's got phenomenal benefits.

So I'm like, I don't have to go out and get private health here. I get phenomenal benefits here. And then I add these other little plans to make it a better 360 degree amazing product, right? 'Cause it's a better strategy when I get involved and I start putting indemnity policies in and HSAs and all these extra things. I'm making money if I go to a doctor or I go to a hospital or have a surgery, I'm gonna make a profit. And a lot of people are like, how is that possible? - Just explain that at a third grade level to people. - Of course.

Of course. So imagine... My name's Rudy Moore, host of Living the Red Life podcast, and I'm here to change the way you see your life in your earpiece every single week. If you're ready to start living the red life, ditch the blue pill, take the red pill, join me in Wonderland and change your life. What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Living the Red Life. Joining me today is Philippe, a good friend. He's been in our community for a long time, helps a lot of...

Our members and myself with advanced insurance strategies, my own personal insurances, insuring my team, and then also he's a bit of a master on the sales side. He runs these big in-person sales events, so selling one to many.

had dozens of sales reps, trained tons of salespeople, took tens of thousands of sales calls. So we're going to cover some good stuff today. Welcome to the show. RUDY MECCIA: Rudy, thank you so much for having me, man. RUDY KAUFMAN: So I know we've been trying to do this for a long time. What you do is very advanced and cool because--

Most people listening, right, they don't understand as an entrepreneur all the insurance options for them, right, for their own personal health and everything. But then also how to insure, get insurances for their team, their employees,

and actually save some money doing it while adding a ton of benefits. So I want to dive into that today, but then I also want to dive in on the business side because we've been working with you for years on the business side, like how you're building sales teams, selling events, hosting your own mini seminars, and how that's applicable to the audience too. So let's start with you and your background. How did you get into all this? Yeah, so I've been doing this about 22 years. When I got out of the military, I...

I had a part-time job at Sam's Club, you know, packing meat. It was a terrible job. I was dead broke. I was project living, just, you know, living on scraps. And I went to a mass hire and it was these Bankers Life and Casualty. They were hiring a bunch of people. They convinced me I was gonna make 500 grand a year and I didn't need a college education. So I was like, this is great. And my oldest daughter, who's 26 now, was like four years old then, right? So...

I got into the sales of insurance and I just really found my passion by serving other people because before I'd been serving my country and that was great. I had this great life and then serving other people really made it interesting and easy to do, right? Because I had a purpose and I had a reason and it was driving me constantly. And then all the challenges that were involved in it, you know, and helping people through all these different unique problems, you start to realize, okay,

Not everybody's the same, but we all have the same problem, right? So it's like once you find one solution and another and you get through about 20, 30 different solutions, you can start to see it repeat itself. Well, and what's interesting just on the entrepreneurial journey side is a lot of people get into sales, but then they just stay in sales. Whereas you decided to become a business owner and then grow a team. And so what made that transition?

COVID, right? So like COVID hit and I was coming off the best year of my life and my career and I was doing it solo. I was an independent and I thought,

man, I'm still killing it during COVID. Like I thrived during quarantine. And I saw so many people suffering and I was like, you know, I could probably teach people how to do this and give them the tools and resources that no one ever gave me or ever thought to give me. And that's really where ProCare Consulting came from. It came from me having a lot of time on my hands because it was quarantine. And I was like, how can I develop this? And I put a plan together. And then I just started hiring brokers and really training them and teaching them on how to, um,

better put dollars in their pockets and live with a purpose and live with passion at the same time. - Yeah, but I think what's great with you, knowing you and working with you for so long is, you know, as the CEO now and the owner, you're really trying to build those systems and those processes and,

you know i see all the in-depth training you give to them and the quality care like because i think when i think of insurances and sales it's like this wolf of wall street style sales floor right but yours is definitely like i feel more like the louis vuitton style the bespoke custom right and and you put a lot of bells and whistles around it like louis vuitton does right like when you go to louis vuitton they give you water on a little glass plate you know and there's a line outside and they let you in

one by one and the stanchions and like, I feel that's what you're doing. So how did you you know, and that's part of being a smart business owner as your USP. And so how do you come up with these things to separate yourself?

I really wanted to give people a Ritz Carlton experience on a Motel 6 budget. So it was just beautiful that I could, I know their names, I know their wants, I know their needs by asking them at least 22 questions because that typically breaks down the walls of defense with people. Because most people, they run into an insurance salesperson. It's probably right below having a root canal. Like that's how much you want to get it done, right? Like it's like right below, like you'd rather have a root canal than deal with an insurance guy.

Because like you said, most people wolf of Wall Street. They're banging on my door. They're blowing me up on the telephone nonstop. So when you come in with this tailored service for people and say, well, listen, I'm just going to educate you. And then I'm going to show you all the options because I have no bias. I represent all the companies. So I don't really care what insurance you choose. Well, that's a big thing up front, right? Because I think most of them, they're like, they have their go-to thing. That's the gimmicky thing. And it's...

and then they just sell that no matter what. Yeah. And most brokers do. They represent three or four companies and then they just hammer those three or four. And they get commission, the most commissions from long. So they push people. Exactly. Exactly. And for me, I'm terrible with it. I don't really count commissions. I just...

and I have systems that do it for me. And I'm just like, if it's the right fit, it's the right fit. But it's like customer value, right? If you do it that way, you probably make more in the long run. Because of referrals. Yeah, referrals, happy customers versus someone gets sold in the wrong plan, they're looking every year. Their gut kind of tells them, oh, I did it this year, but next year I'm going to look again.

Exactly. And it was like you were saying with systems, we're constantly educating people. We're doing Q and a sessions every quarter for each individual insurance company. We're doing nurture systems where I'm doing about 67 touch points per year per client. And that's between letters, cards, uh,

emails, text messages, seminars, member meets, luncheons, all these different ways of making sure that we're in front of them, right? Because tip it's on top of minds, right? So I just want to always make sure that my clients are going to call me, me, our company, rather than call the insurance company.

I want them to call me first. So I believe that, you know, the know, like, trust triangle, right? If they get to know me and they get to like me, they will trust me. And if they can trust me with their problems and I solve it once, then I impact their life. Then they're going to tell everybody, hey, you got to call my guy, you know, whether it's a business owner or a senior or even a solopreneur, right? It doesn't matter if I'm giving them that attention and that understanding so they're clear about what their choice is.

It just everybody wins. When it's funny in sales because people will definitely pay more if they have that relationship. Like I know when I found a good like car dealer, right? Or a good, I'm

I'm trying real estate person, for example, like I don't care if the car is a bit more with that dealer. If I just know I can like he's reliable, I trust him. He's a good guy, you know. And so I think obviously some people always just go for the best deal, but especially more upper class people and entrepreneurs, I think we'll all happily pay more if

We feel that connection. - For sure. - Do you see that even with the customers on a budget? They'll still sacrifice sometimes the cheaper option 'cause of the relationship you've built? - I do. I see sometimes people are on a plan and they're like, "Well, I love my plan, but I don't like my broker or my agent, and I really like you." And I'm like, "Well, I can't do an agent of record switch on this company,

But there are other programs that you could look at and they're like, I'm willing to go to another program and get less to be with you because with you, I'm going to get more. And by more, it's time, right? Because time and money are commodities that we all have.

But you can't replace time. God's only giving us so much. So for those people, I'm saving them time, and that's the value. And the frustration. I mitigate the risk of frustration and anxiety around something that's below a root canal. You know what I mean? So how do the entrepreneurs watching this, they have some sales reps. Probably right now, sales reps are just doing sales calls, sales meetings.

meetings and they've not thought about all these other bells and whistles around it that you have, what are three or four tips they can implement instantly to get more referrals, happier clients, improve sales processes? Yeah, I think really understanding that your systems have to be automated. And if you're not automating your systems, like if you're using Google Sheets and Excel spreadsheets, like you're missing the boat, right? And trust in your reps to do the 67 search points. Exactly. It's never going to happen. But if you automate it and you spend...

one day a week with your guys and just say, hey, listen, let's get some ideation here. Let's create some structures for you. And then you put your own personal twist on it so it's authentic. And I'm going to show you how to put it in a system where you can just automate it out for the next 90 days. And then every 90 days we meet again and we refresh everything.

the information going on. We did a lot of that and we've actually just recently now, we actually hired four VAs, so four grand a month, grand a VA for our sales team and they do a ton of custom work even beyond automation now. And one of them we started just doing was custom proposals for everyone. So they take the transcript from the Zoom, write this custom proposal out, the rep approves it every morning at 9am and now they send custom proposals out. And it's like, and

And I teach my team because it's so much work. And I teach my team, I think the winning in business lies in the irregular things, the things that sound stupid, sound crazy, sound like that's a ton of work. Why would you ever do that? But that's actually where you win because no one else is doing it. It's the uniqueness of doing something different so you stand out from everybody. Yeah, like you sending handwritten thank you cards and hosting free lunches. It's like that's so much for

it works, you know? But that's why it works. Exactly. I have a 52-week video nurture series where they're getting a video, two, three-minute video that's highly produced, and I'm talking about how to pick a dentist, how to pick a primary care, how you know the hospital's ripping you off, what

red flags to be looking for in your insurance bill. Don't pay the bill until you do this. Just like those little tips that people don't think about and most brokers don't do that. They sell and they disappear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then their book's getting flipped all the time. Yeah. Here's one more example we're just starting that's even crazier. So, you know, we sold funnel builds for many years. We just hired like a whole separate design team division and now they actually design the funnel for the client before a sales call.

Oh, wow. It's ridiculous. It's like the most ridiculous thing ever because you're like doing a free website build to show the client before a sales call. That's smart. I love that. Yeah, but it's like so ridiculous it works because now they get to see a funnel before they even get on the sales call. It takes the guessing out like what's the product going to look like and yada, yada, right? So then you're just able to show it right up front. And we're about to try it with a copy team doing books.

So I'm writing with ChatGPT and then a copywriter writing someone's book before they get on a call. I love it. And we do the same thing customizing the plans before someone has an appointment with me. There's an intake form where they give me some information. And from that, I can shave off a lot of time and then already show them customized plans. And then they're like, whoa, wow. And we all love that. I think when we've gone through our own sales processes, right? Like the first thing you want to visually see and understand how it works.

So when someone turns up and can demonstrate that, it helps me buy way quicker. Whereas a lot of times in sales pros, they're like, oh, I can't answer that. I'm like, well, I'm not interested. So tell me who can answer that or I'll find someone else that can. Exactly. I think that's a great tip for everyone listening is like, how can you meet the customer closer there so they can visually see it? For me, in my world, that might be pre-designing a website mock-up or social mock-ups or, you

Even like, you know, the book's an extreme thing, but even like the title of the book or in the chapter outlines, right, could work. And for you, like come in prepared. - Exactly, you know, it's super smart. And especially when you're dealing with small business owners, 'cause they're not thinking about insurance most times, right? They're thinking about commissions and systems and strategies. And then they're like, well, I'm a small business. I don't have to offer health insurance. Why would I? - I think that's great. Yeah, so let's leave, let's transition into that. Why would they?

Right. So why would you offer health insurance? Well, it depends on what kind of business owner you are, right? And we kind of talk, some people are just salespeople and they just sell. They don't ever grow from there. And some business owners are just like, well, I'm okay doing 80 grand a year. And I'm like, it's a hobby then, right? Like you have a hobby, not a business. Every business is eventually going to want to grow and then eventually want to scale. And a great way of doing that, because we have to remember as entrepreneurs and business owners,

We know how much money we can get, so we don't have a cap on that. But the people that you want working for you that maybe are W-2s, they don't have that same mindset. They want security and safety.

And benefits are some of the biggest things that employees are chasing. Yeah, I mean, I learned about that like when we were hiring and growing to, you know, 50 people plus in office. It was coming up all the time, right? As an entrepreneur, I don't know. Yeah, right. You know, and I would have to just keep sending them to HR. And eventually I got so sick of people asking us, I had a one pager made. So I could just say, here it is.

you know so it's funny how much that's valued yep and at one point because before we really took it seriously i i was just like oh we'll pay you another 500 a month you know like and then it's like figure it out but like they didn't even want that they're right exactly they're crazy about it so that's so important for i mean people listening because you you think as an entrepreneur whatever right right but to a normal person that's so important and i think to a lot of the employees it's not even for them it's their nagging spouse

So you're not taking that job. The kids, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Because it's like we call it spouse in the house. You have one that works and one that doesn't or one that's an entrepreneur and one works. Yeah. My situation, my wife has a W2 job. Great job. She's got phenomenal benefits. So I'm like, I don't have to go out and get private health care. I get

Phenomenal benefits here. And then I add these other little plans to make it a better 360 degree amazing product, right? Because it's a better strategy when I get involved and I start putting indemnity policies in and HSAs and all these extra things. It really limits our out-of-pocket expenses if something were to happen, right? So in most cases, I'm making money. If I go to a doctor or I go to a hospital or have a surgery, I'm going to make a profit

And a lot of people are like, "How is that possible?" So you just got to structure your strategies correctly, right? With indemnity policy. Well, let's talk about that for a couple of minutes and then we'll come back to the what to add for your employees. So if it's a solo entrepreneur listening, they just need it for themselves. What are a couple of these good extra things to add?

So I think it all comes down to your lifestyle and your budget, of course. And you've got two kinds of people. Some people that have a very clean lifestyle and people that don't have a clean lifestyle. Whatever, I'm not here to judge. I mean, it is what it is. If you have a very clean lifestyle and you're not drinking, you're not drugging, and you're pretty healthy, going with health share ministries, ministry programs can be phenomenal because they're such a low-cost program.

and they have this share program, which is a deductible that's relatively low. And then it's 100% coverage afterwards. So it's really great to get in those. And then you put like a hospital indemnity on the back end.

or what we call a mega indemnity that covers everything. So when you go to the doctor and you have a $40 copay, this other insurance company is sending you 125 bucks. So you're making a profit. - Just explain that at a third grade level to people. - Of course, of course. So imagine, I'll give you a great example. You fall off a ladder or you're riding your bike, right? You're riding your bike.

you fall off the bike and you hurt yourself. You dislocate your shoulder. You gotta go to the emergency room. You go to the emergency room, you've got a co-pay for that. Let's say it's $400. That's your co-pay. So you go in the emergency room, now you owe $400. Then they keep you overnight in the hospital. Then you've got another, let's say $2,000, $2,500 'cause you have a deductible. Well, now you're up to $2,900.

you get this other program from another insurance company that makes you a bet. And they say, well, I bet you won't, nothing will happen to you. And you just got to pay me $100 a month

And if something does happen to you, we're going to pay you out. So you say, okay, great. You go to the emergency room. They say, okay, now we owe you $300. So they offset 300 of the 400 that you have to spend. So you're like, okay, now what about the rest of the money that I owe, the $2,500? That's where it really comes in with hospitals because you get an emission rate of up to $3,000 and then up to $5,000 a day that you're in the hospital. So now you've got $8,000.

You're making a profit, you know, you have a baby, you make a profit. So they're giving you like a couple of grand more to go up to five grand per day. Per day. And the beautiful... It's kind of like stock trading, but betting when it goes up and then also if it drops. Exactly. It's mitigating all your risk. Right. And the thing is, most people will look for low deductible insurance because they're worried that if something happens to me... Well, that's what I did. Yeah. I would always say, find me, you know, one of the... I don't mind paying more. I just, I don't want to have to pay nine grand because I fall off

my bike. Right, exactly. And the thing that we do with most people, including you, is we go, no, you don't want to do that. What you'd rather do is have a higher deductible pay or lower premium and then get an indemnity product on the back end. Because it's cheaper to add the indemnity monthly than it would be just to pay for the higher premium. It's cheaper to have the two products and then you have full safety and protection between the two. I call it like a gift box strategy. The insurance...

catastrophic insurance is the foundation. And then the box around it is the protection of an indemnity policy. And then the ribbon would be like dental or mental therapy or something of that or an HSA, something that's just that little bit extra to make it a little bit fancier. And if you've got 20 mil in the bank, you probably don't care if it's a five grand deductible, right? No, you don't, right. But it's like if you...

if the five grand is still gonna hurt you, then it's worth paying $100 a month to get that, or whatever it would cost to get that reimbursed. - But you know, Rudy, even if you had $20 million in the bank and you go to the hospital and you show your insurance card and the next thing you know, you get a check and you made two grand, you're gonna be like, what? It's just, for most people, it just doesn't make sense. They're like, how does this, how did that happen?

You got to remember 80% of people that are paying premiums for insurance never use it. Well, that's how insurance works. That's how they make money. Exactly. They always win unless there's a hurricane in Florida. Right. And then they might lose that year. That's why I'm not in that business. Homeowner's insurance, forget it. I don't even, it's crazy to me. But with health insurance, it works like that all the time. And same thing with business owners. They're looking at it from an aspect of, well, these are dollars that have to go out for employees and I'd rather put that into marketing or whatever, whatnot. I said, well, what about retention?

and hiring people, you should have a great benefit system. But they can even, the dollar amount of pay for insurance for health employees, there are ways to even like get tax write-offs from that and strategies where it's not as much as you think once you do the maths, right? Correct. Not only that, you can do, there's certain, if you offer wellness programs, there's a tax code section 125C that the government will actually give you breaks in your FICA tax.

and it's up to $500, $600 sometimes per employee per year. So if you got 100 employees, you're getting all this money back in tax breaks, right? As the employer, the employee then has an indemnity product

And the indemnity product is like a mental health, nutrition counseling, something like that. And we automate the system. So every month we're sending a text message to the employee saying like, how are you feeling today? Just to keep it in layman's terms. And they're like, I feel great. Fantastic. Well, that initiates the indemnity. So then the indemnity reimburses the money they pay. So it cuts their taxes in half.

- Yeah. - For the employee. - Yeah, yeah. - So they're paying half in taxes and the savings that they get in their taxes then buys insurance. So a lot of times with the companies we have, one, they're getting massive rebates back. Two, the employees are getting free health insurance.

free health insurance free life insurance free hsas and it's like what and most of these business owners like how is this possible that's one of my favorite things is going to a business and giving them a check for 27 grand they're like what is this for and i said well i put you on a level funded product which means at the end of the year you get access to your claims dollars that are left over and they're like wait what and i'm like yeah you had 27 000 left in claims

That's your money. I give you that check back. And they're like, so I'm paying less a month for insurance and I get money back at the end of the year. And then I get a wellness program. And the employees get a tax break. Exactly. Exactly. Employees get a tax break, which allows them to get extra insurance. And one of the companies I deal with gives whole life insurance policies, which collects cash value.

And it's guaranteed issue, which means for your wife and your kids, guaranteed issue life insurance. So if wife is unhealthy, kids are unhealthy, they're going to get guaranteed issue life insurance, which you would never be able to get on the private market, right? Not for these amounts that we're getting, $100,000, $200,000, right? Depending on how much the employees are making for years. So the tax break is different. But it's just these really intricate strategies that sound kind of up there in the clouds. But that's the whole thing, right? I mean, strategies...

are chess. And there's so many movements you can make where most people are playing the game checkers, whether it's insurance or marketing, right? How many people do you run into that are playing their marketing game or ads game like checkers? You're like, what are you doing here? And it's sometimes those little micro movements. I mean, when I met you, I was playing checkers and you were like, Hey man, if you just move this here and move this here, you're going to see great results. And I was like, what? And when I did it, I was like, man,

It's crazy. It's like magic, right? So it's the same thing in insurance. Those little changes you do and then having someone that can be an advocate for you and really lay all these plans out for you. And I pay attention to the market. So when things change, I'm like, hey, listen, there's a new rule. There's new products. Let's get you on this. Let's shift you over because I don't care what insurance you're on. I just want you to win. That's it.

Love it. So last couple of questions I like to ask on the show, more entrepreneurial now, right? Well, first one, where do they find you if they want to go down the rabbit hole on the insurance side and they're like, that all sounds great.

My guy, my current person I use has no clue about any of that. I want to pick your brain on it and see if I can just use you to set it all up. Where do they go? I love it. You can go Facebook or Instagram to ProCare Consulting or Philippe Lundstedt, either one, either my personal or my business. And you can also go to my LinkedIn as well, Philippe Lundstedt. That's the best way to get it. We'll link it in the show notes too. So last couple of questions on the entrepreneur side. I always ask, you know, a lot of success, but what was your biggest, one of the biggest failures in business?

Oh man, my biggest failure in business was when I was working for Humana as a captive agent and I quit my job because I was unhappy with the way management treated somebody else.

And I didn't take my book of business and it was over 800 clients. So I went from making six figures to nothing. I was young. It was the dumbest thing ever. I didn't have a plan. Were you allowed to take it? Yeah, 100%. I could have copied all those people and taken it. And then when I left, I could have easily contacted them and rewrote them because the plans change every year. I could have rewritten it and then boom, had 800 clients off the rip. So I actually did that twice. I did it with

Humana and then I worked for United Healthcare and they had a contract dispute over in the area that I live in and all of my clients went over to Blue Cross Blue Shield but because I was a captive with United, I couldn't do anything. That's when I was like, never again, I'm gonna become a broker and it was like literally at that time, I was working like three jobs, it was tough Rudy, three jobs, no vacation time, three and a half years

grinding, grinding, grinding. I was a mattress firm trainer. I worked at a pipe factory third shift and I was doing telemarketing every single day. It was nuts, man. No dinners, no holidays, none of that stuff. And it was tough, but now I'm here, right? Yeah, yeah. Last question. I always ask, if you could go on a time machine to your younger self and tell yourself one thing, what would it be?

I would have told my younger self to invest in yourself, invest in the education, don't buy the glittery glamorous things, invest in your business, masterminds, read more books and focus on personal growth because I would have been where I'm at now

15 years ago. It's funny how still 90% of the world does no personal development. But the people that do, it's like they always say they wish they'd done it earlier. Yep, absolutely. I wish I would have done it earlier. Instead of going to concerts, I wish I would have gone to your events or you weren't doing events back then. Yeah, that's probably it. But like Tony Robbins and all these other guys were doing them, right? And it's like,

Nah, I'd rather go to a concert or go to the bar or whatever. It's stupid, man. I'm lucky. I fell on Tim Ferriss' four-hour work week at 18 and became upset. And then I did all the Brian Tracy's stuff right after. And I got lucky. I started it young, I guess. But yeah, some people, they don't start it till 40. And it's like, they're like, I lost all my 30s. And people think it's something that there's some kind of magic formula or you got lucky or whatever. And it's like, no, I just...

I paid attention to what was inside of me and my abilities. Like I changed my limited belief system to be like, I could do this. And here's the roadmap because success leaves clues. I just have to follow these things, right? And that's what we do. And now that you learn those, you pass those on, whether it's to your employees, to your clients, to whatever, you pass it on because you want to pay it forward, right? And it's the absolute truth. I mean, it's gospel. Yeah.

If you just invest in personal development. You see the same people that have been unfit all their life and then they lose 50 pounds and then they can't stop talking about fitness ever again, right? Like, you know, and I see that with so many clients back when I was in fitness, they lost the weight with me. And then now they're like becoming personal trainers. Yeah, exactly. See how it changes. I think if you're listening and not doing personal development, that's how personal development feels.

Yeah, absolutely. 100%. Love that. Good. So that's a wrap. Just one more time, your Instagram. Instagram is ftluns or ProCare Consulting. Good. Love it. Well, great episode talking about all the insurance for entrepreneurs, for their teams, building a unique sales system too. That was an awesome conversation. So guys, go check him out. And of course, keep living the red life.