Ep 1043 | Jase & Phil Get Lost in the Fog & Why Humans Are Afraid of the Dark
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Have you ever spotted McDonald's hot, crispy fries right as they're being scooped into the carton? And time just stands still. I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. Chase, we were, last podcast, we've been diving into these first disciples who were called

And you had a point about light, because I was talking about this idea of enlightenment, like that Paul was enlightened on the road to Damascus. There seemed to be this idea that this come and see is like somehow there has to be an illumination to, I don't know if it's the mind, the heart, what it is that gets illuminated. It's like, just spend some time with me, Jesus says. Yeah.

And you'll follow me. It's like the light switch comes on. That's it. And he uses this illustration multiple times when he talks about being blind and seeing. The story I always think about, I know I've shared it before, but because, you know, our dad, he was in the duck hunting world. He was real big about if somebody ever, usually outside of our family, would say, come to this duck hole.

And, you know, we'll get them. Well, if we didn't get them, my dad, he was like, never follow that human being ever again. And you remember, W.E. got into that category. He had a couple of strikeouts, you know, come up here. And I then learned after a while, I was like, if you get this wrong,

You will be excluded from any future venture ever. Especially the first time. You can have a strikeout later, but not to start with. So in a famous story that happened is one year the river was up. It was up so high during duck season that we were having to get in an outboard motor

and go to our duck hole from the river. We usually drive, but all the roads were under water. It was all water, yeah. And so we were having to track 20 minutes in an outboard, and so we would leave from the foot of Phil's house. But one morning it was so foggy that he was like, now look, follow me.

I was like, you know, I know how to get there. Because you couldn't use your lights. You're just basically going by feel. But what happened was, as soon as, because we had two boats, as soon as I backed out, just everything disappeared. And I didn't realize the current was so strong in the river that it flipped my boat around. So I take off. While I'm looking around for Phil, I say, no, I mean, it's so foggy, you cannot see your hand in front of your face.

And we're going down river. I didn't realize it. The wrong way. I thought I was going up river. Yeah. And somebody said, how come the current's going the opposite way? And I said, this is crazy. Something that we have a supernatural occurrence. Because my first instinct was, I know I'm going. The West Side River is flowing north. Because I was using the bank as my basis. I'm looking at the bank. Yeah.

And I'm going due south. But it's on my left. I thought I was going due north with the bank on my left. I was going due south with the bank on my left. But now the current is going the opposite direction. And it took me maybe a minute to realize I'm going the wrong way. And so then I remember Phil's words following me, which was impossible because I couldn't see.

So I turn around, and now we take off, and we're so far behind. I've been going the wrong way for 10 minutes. So what's funny about this story is an hour later, which is supposed to take 20 minutes, but it's so foggy. I'm just navigating, and I see a light in the fog. And it's almost getting daylight, but I see a light, and I'm like, that light is in a place.

Whatever that is doesn't make sense because I knew where I was in my mind. And so I see the light moving and it hit me. I thought, that's Phil's boat. They're lost because I know where I'm at now. And they're in a field. They're off the creek. They're off the river. They're just in a flooded field. Yeah. So I went to the light that I could see and I turned my motor off. They turned their motor off. And...

Phil said, where are we at? I was like, you're lost. But so it makes me feel better about not following you. I was like, because I went the wrong way down the river. Everybody was lost. The blind was leading the lost or was the lost leading the blind? The blind was leading the blind because we couldn't see.

So we both got forgiveness of that because the conditions were too rough. But in the context of what we talked about on the last podcast, which I do think these are principles that can shape your faith in that who was actually looking for who, and you realize that since Jesus is the Son of God, Yeah.

Him looking for us is more important. And I think you see this in a lot of verses that doesn't seem to make sense. One of them is in 1 John 4 where it says, this is love, not that we love God, but that he loved us. He first loved us. Yeah, he first loved us. Why is he saying that? John 15 where he says, look, you didn't choose me, I chose you. And I think that is...

an authority thing. I mean, because if you leave us to find our own way, we're out there. I give my illustration some legs, you know, going around in circles thinking. Which is really how we began the book, right? John 1, 1 through 4, in him was light. That light was the life of men. And then we went back to Genesis 1, let there be light. The idea that this constant light

You know, we would, I guess now in our vernacular, we would say the northern star from a physical standpoint, we look up, it's always in that. So you can always know that's in a northerly direction. But he's that for the compass for everything else. Like, he is that constant light. So not only does he save us, I mean, we got that down. It was his grace, his mercy, his power. But then what we've been talking about is what we do. I mean, he called these disciples disciples.

to be his witnesses. You know, in Acts 1, it calls it the apostolic ministry. Because remember, Judas, because there's what's fascinating about this, which the reason I think it's more about vocation, what we're reading, is because he chose 12 people. And John 6 talks about this. Well, one of them he chose was Judas. Well, why did he choose him? I mean, that's why I'm saying there's more to it than just...

Then just getting in Jesus, which is, yes, that is the most important thing because if you're not in Jesus, you'll wind up in a field with your – Right. Your –

splattered out, which is what happened to Judas. Yeah, that's one. He wasn't a team player, but I think it makes more sense. And you see the little markers along the way. The few times we read about Judas, he was always on the struggle bus about greed and, you know, like, remember he didn't want to spend the money giving it to this person and all this. But you get to the Lord's Supper the night before everything happened at the Passover feast. Yeah.

before it says Satan entered him. So it's like almost up until that whole time, he had a chance to turn it around. And I believe that. I do too. So when you talk about lost and found, he found Judas. And guess what? He didn't want to be found because he had his own agenda. And there's always going to be that struggle.

with human beings which is why i think he chose him i mean a lot of people say oh no it's just because you know someone had to betray him but i don't believe that i believe that's why he chose him was to show all of us by example even a part of the inner posse of jesus the original 12 if you don't seek him you won't find him you won't find even if you're in his midst which i go back to that john 1

12, when he said, yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God. Judas had the right to become a child of God. Jesus loved him. Jesus accepted him. Yeah. He watched his feet. Yeah. You know, with the rest of them, right there in Luke 13 or wherever. So I'm making the point, though, I believe Judas' problem is,

was that he didn't like what he was called to do and be. He was thinking more, let's take the money, let's take over the world. I think he was purely looking at a normal operating kingdom and wasn't looking at the qualities that Jesus was representing in his kingdom. And just to kind of prove that, I thought this was interesting in Luke 11.

where Jesus makes this analogy, in which what happens when you read any scripture, then I started reading what happened before, and I got a couple points I want to make. But speaking of this light and come and see, look what he says in 1133. He says, no one lights a lamp and puts it in a place where it will be hidden or under a bowl. Instead, he puts it

on its stand so that those who come in may see the light. Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are good, your whole body is full of light. But when they are bad, your body is also full of darkness. Your body also is full of darkness. See to it then that the light within you is not darkness is a very good line. See to it that the light within you is not darkness, which I think Judas would be a great example of that.

Therefore, if your whole body is full of light and no part of it's dark, it will be completely lighted as when the light of a lamp shines on you, which is then going back to Jesus. Which I thought that makes more sense, you know, when Hebrews 12, where it's like, let us fix our eyes on Jesus.

You're like, well, how exactly do I do that? Well, it's getting back to this come and see, and then that becomes contagious where you're telling other people, oh, come and see. Come and see the light. But you're never going to put a bowl over it, which, I mean, I'm just saying, look at our modern-day churches today. It's like a bunch of buildings with bowls. It's like, don't get too excited. Don't take it out of the building. Keep it to yourself. Keep it right here. Yeah.

Jace, years ago, I guess we may have been preaching students or maybe we were interns, but you read the book, Justin's Book of Martyrs. Yeah. And you were the first person that I knew that ever read it. And you told me about it. And then I read it. And it was one of the most inspirational things I'd ever read about the early church.

and disciples into the centuries about how that they were persecuted and martyred. Well, yeah. And us, you know, living in America, we don't tend to think that's going on. But even today, it's more happening than at any other time in history. So that led me to the Voice of the Martyrs, which is an amazing organization that

that has been telling those stories. And Todd Nettleton, who is the voice of the Martyrs radio host, he's traveled to all these restricted nations for over 20 years and met these courageous Christians. And he's written a book, I have it here in front of me if you're watching, When Faith is Forbidden, 40 Days on the Frontlines with Persecuted Christians. And

And so he tells these amazing stories. And so it's kind of like you're on this journey when you're reading and you're kind of going through with him into these different countries, these different stories. Yeah, their ministry connects us with believers around the world, which is cool. And every time you get on this point of the journey, you're reflecting your own walk with

which I think is what happens when we realize we're inspired by other people. We want you to check it out. This is a remarkable book, remarkable stories, and you can request a free copy of When Faith is Forbidden today. And here's how you do that. You can request your free copy, When Faith is Forbidden, by calling 844-463-4059 today.

That's 844-463-4059. Or you can visit vom.org slash unashamed. That's vom.org slash unashamed. Check it out. You will be inspired by this book. Welcome back, Zach. I didn't know you were back. I looked up and you were gone. Well, I've been here the whole time. Oh, have you? Yeah, I commented. Remember I said the blind leading the lost? That's true. Okay. So look, I found something fascinating. When I look back,

And to Luke 11, watch this interaction because this is why I thought about Judas. And we didn't read the John 6. Maybe we should, but we'll get to it eventually. Because he brings that up. He says he knew from the beginning that even though he chose, he says it just like he says in John 15, you didn't choose me, I chose you. He says in the end of John 6, he's like,

I chose you. And then John gives a little parenthetical. He says, even though he knew one of them would betray him from the beginning, he still chose him. That's right. It's fascinating. So in Luke 11, when he was driving out demons in verse 14, watch how cool this is.

It says, Jesus was driving out a demon that was mute. When the demon left, the man who had been mute spoke, and the crowd was amazed. But some of them said, well, by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, he's driving out demons. Others tested him by asking him for a sign of heaven. So here you have two different responses. People have, they're coming and they're looking, and

And one of them is like, boy, this is amazing. But then the other is like, man, it's a demon. So they're coming and seeing Jesus in a different view. But watch what Jesus says. Jesus knew their thoughts and said, any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall. If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand?

I say this because you claim that I drive out demons by Beelzebub, which I think is interesting that Jesus introduces another kingdom. Yeah. That it's of the evil one. Right. Which is earthly and of the devil. So then it says, watch what this says.

Verse 18 or verse 17, Jesus know the thoughts, any king divided against himself. I read that. Verse 18, if Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? I say this because you claim that I drive out demons by Beelzebub. Now, if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your followers drive them out? So then they will be your judges.

And here's the verse I was trying to get to. But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you. And to go back to this point about us saying, look, the kingdom is where the king is reigning. Yeah. And he makes that statement, which I think is pretty profound. If I'm driving out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom has come to you. So what do you make of that?

Well, what was he doing? He was driving out demons by the hand of God. So that means that the kingdom had come upon them in that moment. It's one of the texts we use when we talk about the kingdom of God being here and now and not just a future reality. It is the future reality as well. It's the kingdom that's here now, but not yet fully realized. And so I think that's what he's talking about there. And he's putting an urgency there.

in what we do now, because it matters, because stuff's going on now. Christ is reigning now. So we talk about the finished work of Christ. That's not just about our justification, which it is about that as well. He did accomplish that on the cross, but it's also the fact that he is reigning now. Christ is king now. Yep. And I think you're right, Zach, because he goes on to say,

Verse 21, when a strong man fully armed guards his own house, his possessions are safe. But when someone stronger attacks and overpowers him, he takes away the armor in which the man trusted and divides up the spoils. And he says, he who is not with me is against me. And he who does not gather with me scatters. And it's going to be the same thought that you even see with Peter when he named him the rock man.

Well, you know why he named him The Rock? Because remember when he says, who do you say I am? Matthew 16, 18. Yeah. And Peter said, you're the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus is like, upon that rock, you're Peter, and upon this rock, I will build my church. Yeah. Well, then later in Peter's writings, I think it's 1 Peter 2,

Remember when he brings up the rock, our cornerstone is Jesus? But then he says the same thing Jesus says here in Luke 11. He's like, well, some people are dashed on that rock. And it's the same thing.

That's super important, Jace, what you just said, because that confession in Matthew 16, upon this rock I'll build my church. Peter's not the rock that the church is built on, because some people believe that. They think he was the first pope and all that. That's not what he's saying there. What he's saying is upon the confession, what Peter confessed, that Jesus is the Christ himself.

That's the rock. So that's that same imagery that you get in Daniel of what comes down and crushes that statue of the kingdom, the last being the Roman Empire. Well, it was a rock. A rock rolled down and smashed the whole thing. So you see this image of the rock throughout all the Old Testament prophecy and then coming to full fruition in Jesus. And that's why Paul is very explicit when he references Christ as the cornerstone of

And by the way, we're living stones. Well, and the Old Testament references is interesting because it calls it a cornerstone there, but it also calls it the stumbling stone.

which is to Jace's point, the same rock that becomes the cornerstone of everything we build off of was something to stumble over if you missed it. So again, it's that illumination. I thought about when you were describing that, Jace, and Zach, you might speak to this because you dealt with it in the movie, the Torchbearer movie that you helped write. I thought about the Statue of Liberty.

which is a gift from France that sits in New York when people come in past Ellis Island, coming into New York, all those immigrants,

The idea is they're going to pass by the Statue of Liberty. And you remember, she's holding up this torch. And so the idea was because we had a revolution about the same time that France had a revolution. Right, Zach? I mean, it was right in the same neighborhood. The difference between the two revolutions, and this is what the French never figured out, was that ours was based on godly principle.

The idea of our country started with the idea about God and that religious freedom and liberty was a big anchor point. Yeah, I would say not just principle. It was based on a particular truth of the gospel and the biblical text that man is made in the image of God. So the anchor was that, that man. And it's a very sophisticated but simple principle.

If there is no God, then who determines what's right or wrong for us? Right. And I thought that was the point of the movie, which was so strong. I just find it fascinating that the French would send us the beacon of

of true liberty and light based on the cornerstone, the idea of who God is, 100 years after the revolution. But then even now, 150 years later, we seem to be forgetting that. You know what the original title for the film, which they changed it against my protest, the original title was not Torchbearer. Imagebearer. It was Imagebearer. That would have been a better title. But Torch is...

I mean, we are talking about carrying the torch, but... That's why I thought about the point in what we're talking about today is this illumination idea. But it has to come back to that corner. It has to come back to who that is, or you can trip over it and you can lose it. Well, and that's why I brought up the two kingdoms here. It's because even when Peter dipped his toe into the, well, you're not going to die. I'm never going to let that happen. You remember what Jesus said to him?

Well, get behind me, Satan. Yeah. All of a sudden, you don't like my plan. Because he even in Luke 11, after he talked about that, you know, he who is not with me is against me. And then he goes into that illustration. When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through seeking rest and doesn't find it. And it says, I'll return to the house I left. When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean. Well, then he goes and gets seven other spirits more wicked than itself. And,

And they go in. So he's showing you this spiritual battle between the two kingdoms. And then they ask for signs, more miraculous signs, to prove he is the one. He's like, I'm not going to give you any sign.

Except the sign of Jonah. That's in 29 of Luke 11. Well, you remember what he's talking about there. I got to die. So that's why when Peter stepped out of line, he's like, well, now Peter got back in line, even though he was still full of struggles. And that's why I brought up Judas, because he just didn't like...

the way the king was operating and the way the kingdom was set up. And so you're like, well, where did he go? Well, there's only two possibilities. There's not all these different possibilities that we think there is, which I found fascinating, which I said all that to say. Because Judas just picked a side is all he did. He went back to the ones that were trying to kill him, and he was like, yeah, I'll be the rat.

But he was choosing a side, and he did it for 30 pieces of silver, which he didn't even keep. He just went back and threw it in because he felt so guilty. So it just shows you, you choose a side, and then you realize it's the wrong side, and then there's even no value in that. But it's what we all do when we sin. I mean, you just think about it. You think, oh, I mean, most of it starts, what, right around the teenage years or whatever, all of a sudden. This will be better. You're like, oh.

You're kind of like Adam and Eve in the garden. You're like, I know what's right for my life. This is my life. I'm going to do whatever makes me happy. And I will now be the judge of right and wrong. And we choose wrong. And then you look up and then you face the consequences. And next thing you know,

You're under the control of the kingdom of despair. Instead of feeling liberated, you feel guilty, ashamed, hiding. I mean, all this stuff that happened to the original. Well, and then that world comes in and makes it worse, saying, well, you're no good. You're terrible. You can never come back. So it only gets worse. Or it's like you're king of the world, and these earthly blessings come your way, and then all of a sudden you think you're going to do something with it.

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You get into this, going back into this whole thing about vocation. What happens is, is that you start to separate all this out and you, is that what we're trying to do is bring everything together into a cohesive head. But, but the, the idea I think really is very simple that,

So what is the difference between a Judas and a Peter? Because that's a really good question. I think one, because there's something underneath even our faith, I think. And I think that Paul speaks to this in Romans 2 when he says, He will render to each one according to his works. To those who by patience and well-doing seek glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. So I think when you go back to that question that Jesus asked them, what do you seek? I think some people, if they were to be honest, they are saying, I'm going to seek to be self-serving.

No matter what the truth says, that's the whole thing when you mentioned accusing Jesus of working by the power of Beelzebub. Man, think about what they're actually doing there. Because that's blasphemy, by the way, which is the unforgivable sin. Why is it unforgivable? Because if you're looking at Christ, who's performing the miracles that he was performing, and he's casting out demons, he's doing all these amazing things,

And you're not convinced by that. But instead, you're trying to find a way around him being the Christ. So you say, oh, you're doing that by the power of the devil. We can't deny your power. So then what we're going to do is the only next move is to say you're doing it under another type of demonic power.

The reason why that's unforgivable is because it's ultimately the rejection of truth. It's to not obey the truth. And the reason why we don't obey the truth is because we're trying to preserve our own selves. We're self-seeking and we don't care about righteousness. We're not obeying righteousness. We're obeying our own thirst. And God says, if that's your motivation, if that's what you're seeking, here's the end for you.

wrath and fury. But if you're the kind of person that says, no, I'm going to go wherever truth leads. I don't care where it leads. If truth leads me to abandon everything that I hold dear,

I'm going to do it because I'm seeking immortality. I'm seeking justice. I'm seeking honor. I'm seeking glory. I want the good things of God. And even if you don't even know who God is, I truly believe that. I believe this first. If you do this, I think God is going to open up a way for you to get to know his son, Jesus Christ.

A hundred percent of the time. Not one time has there been a person who will do this in Romans chapter two, verse six, that God is not going to bring his son Jesus to meet. He's going to. I think that's the difference between the two is those two type of things. Are you going to preserve yourself or are you going to submit yourself to the sovereignty of God and his will? Yeah, and that's one of the blessings of getting to know the rest of the story with Peter is

We know that in spite of his weaknesses through the points of his three years with Jesus, obviously he became convicted to the point that he preached the first sermon to the Jews. He was there in the Cornelius for the first Gentile. I mean, like every first, he was there. But you do see a persistence in Peter. Even think about this fact. He didn't give up.

He didn't give up, and he denied Christ three times, but he came back. Then, even post-resurrection, because you'd want to think that the resurrection solved everything. And once they saw that, you would want to think that Peter was good to go from there into eternity, but he wasn't. Because Paul says in Galatians that Peter was basically indulging in racist activities, right? He struggled with the Gentiles, yeah. There was always a growth.

process, which is I think everybody struggles with being an ambassador of Christ yet still having flaws. Right. But do you remember what Paul said he did with Peter? He confronted him. He said, I rebuked him to his face. And think about that means that Peter, think about Peter's posture.

He was a seeker. Because I don't take rebuke very well. If someone says, oh, I'll rebuke Zach straight to his face, I would be like, what? Well, you take it well from me.

That's true. Because you know I love you, Steve. I know you love me. And also, it comes in such strong waves that it's just you can't. I mean, I've been bathed in your rebuke. I think I figured something out. Bathed in rebuke. I think I figured something out. I was waiting for the right time to reveal this, but I think now is the time. Because especially, I know it makes people feel uncomfortable when we talk about making –

decisions based on heaven or hell, which, look, the first few years of my life, that's all I was hearing. And I actually wrote a book where I had the principle right. I just wished that I'd had more of the package right in how I got there. I wrote that book because I said, and I made this illustration, and I made it my whole Christian life, but I finally found the smoking gun. You're going to be...

fascinated by this, I think. But I've always said the whole key to Christianity is focusing on who you're with, not where you're going. Yeah, the journey. Yeah, because I made a point. It's like, take my wife. She doesn't care where we're going. I'll say, babe, you want to take a trip? Yeah. I mean...

She wants to go because she's assuming I'm going with her. Right. And I really have thought about that. Does it really matter where we're going? No, it's who you're with. And so I view eternity as being with Jesus and Jesus' people. Right. I'm like, we're going to have a good time no matter where we are.

However, I'm now realizing kind of I found a little smoking gun here. So in John, and I want to share this with you, we have the 7 IMs. We actually did a series. On the podcast. On the 7 IMs. Yep. Remember? Yep. And you remember what they are. Can you all name them? I'm the bread alive. That's one. I'm the light of the world. That's two. I'm the...

Resurrection. The resurrection and the life. The Alpha, the Omega, beginning and end. That's Revelation 1, and unfortunately it's not in the 7 IMs because I think they're saying 7 IMs at John. Yeah. But Revelation, you could make a case for that being number 8 because he says, I'm the Alpha, the Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Yeah. That's the verse. So that's actually 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. And the gate is another. I'm the gate. You've got four of them so far.

And then there's one in John A. where he just says, I am. He says, I'm the way, the truth, the life. That's five. You're missing two. I am. All right. So you got the bread, the light. Did you say the door? The gate. We said the gate, yeah. The gate, three. The good shepherd. I'm the good shepherd. That's four. John 10. I'm the resurrection. I'm lost. The way, the truth, and the life. I got to see it on paper.

Well, number seven is I'm the true vine. The vine. Yeah. John 15. That's John 15. Okay, so those are the seven. But I will make a point before I give you, because I'm going to introduce a number eight.

And it's not in John, but it should be number eight because when I read this and I went and looked it up, I thought, why have I never brought this up? Because there's another case you can make in John where he says before Abraham was, I am. Yeah, which is not considered part of the seven. And I think they came up with these seven because when you think about these things, because I don't want to miss the point, those seven are powerful. It really describes, think of the opposite of

Like when you're hungry. So he says, I'm a breadwinner. Well, when you're really hungry, I mean, I've been in moments where I was like so hungry that I just, you know, stick my head in a bowl. And there's a story. You usually mean after a day in the duck blight or something. Well, yeah, it's just like.

And the only time I was really hungry is when I was in the Ukraine on that mission trip. Because you couldn't find food. Well, we ran out of food. We gave away what we brought because the people there were in way more severe conditions than we were. Well, I really know what it was to be hungry. I'm telling you, it was five days. I drank a little bit and ate a couple of crackers in five days. Yeah.

And when we, I've told this story many times, but we stopped at that Moscow McDonald's after five days. And I mean, it just, I just gorged myself. I was paying people to move up in the line. Seriously. I had a box of money because the exchange rate was so terrible back then.

So Jace, there's a lot going on in the world. It's easy to kind of get distracted. It's something every day that's new that kind of shifts people's attention.

But one of the things that I think is there every day for us as believers, there are babies in mothers' wombs who need help. I mean, they need us to be able to defend their right to be here and to hopefully provide a pathway to get here and to take care of them once they're here. Yeah, and life is special to us, especially the younger they are. Yeah. Just because it reminds us all, you know, the greatest gift possible.

in this world is life. - It is, and we all kind of fight this life battle at different stages in our family, but we're all in this thing together. And one of our sponsors, which is also one of our friends in this ministry, is Preborn. They have a network of clinics, and they're literally on the front line. They're nationwide, and they're on standby for women deciding between the life of their babies, obviously at the most crucial decision in both of their lives.

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I've never said anything negative about McDonald's since. Right. Because I'm like, yeah, okay, whatever. But when you're hungry, it's the greatest thing. And they had one in Moscow. Having a place that you need to stop. So when he says I'm the bread alive, just think about the emotions when you're really hungry on what he's saying here. Good point. He's like, I'll satisfy that because he picked the strongest thing. Look, when he says light, well, how are you when you're in total darkness?

There's no worse feeling in the world. It's despair. I mean, people have a phobia of that. And I do not like, I mean, as a little kid. You lose your mind. Yeah. As a little kid, I remember thinking walking at 50 yards from our house. Yeah, in the black dark. Yeah. And I ran. Nobody had to give me a spiritual sermon on it. I was like...

You know, you're just terrified because you can't see. And every time you trip over that crack in the concrete. Stump toes. Well, and you think about door, gate, what's the significance of that? Well, ask somebody in prison. Yeah. Trying to get out. When there's a locked door. I mean, you're, and I'm claustrophobic. I don't even like being in an elevator. Yeah. So it's like when you start adding all these things up, what he's presenting is really powerful. Yeah.

Well, I'm the good shepherd. So it took me a second to think about that one. But I thought, well, how many times in your life are you running with the wrong crowd and you feel trapped and you don't know how to break free? And then you just start looking for another crowd. And it's like, wouldn't it be nice if you just had a leader who would say, look, come follow me. Yeah.

Because it's all these trap scenarios. And then when the resurrection was like, well, there's people in the counseling world who don't even believe in God that make people lie down in a coffin while you're alive. And just, I wouldn't want to do that because everybody's terrified of that. Right. I mean...

So you just, you think, well, the way. Well, that's why I told you the story about being lost. Right. When you're lost, just think of me, arguments, confusion. How many arguments I've had with my wife? Like, you don't know the way. It's just chaos ensues. Then panic happens. And then you end up doing what? Pulling over on the side of the road, stopping life and settling the argument. The relationship's now been fractured. Yeah. Because nobody knows anything.

you know, where the heck we're going. And then the true vine, which I thought was interesting and more challenging, but as a wilderness person, I would venture to say the toughest thing in the woods is a vine. I have tripped over more. They're unstoppable. You can cut them off in the next year. I mean, you can literally whack them off in the next year. There's 10 more. Well, it just, and I thought, man, man,

It's such an awesome thought. And if you want to do a Google search on the power of vines, I literally read them for a couple hours, especially all those in Israel with the grape vines and how tough they are. And so having said all that,

I stumbled upon another I Am, and I thought, how have we missed this? And I Googled it to see if it was on any list. Zax was on the list. I'm the Alpha, the Omega, the Before Abraham Was I Am. But this verse was on no list. I was shocked.

Y'all have any idea? Obviously, we did a series and we didn't bring it up. You're saying what? It's not in John. It's not in John. It's another I am, and I think it should be number eight or number one because it goes to the vocation, and I think that's why it's never been on a list. And I looked up the Greek. I thought maybe it doesn't say that. Oh, no. It's in the Greek. It's right in line with all those other I ams. It's in Matthew 28.

And it's really exciting. So we have groundbreaking, introduced and found another I am. No, it's hidden so subtly that we just miss it. So watch what he says. Speaking of our vocation and in the light of, so now we fast forwarded.

Because we're in John 1 where he's picking the disciples, right? Now we're in Matthew 28 where he has accomplished what he's accomplished, the death, burial, resurrection, right? So he stands up in verse, what verse is that? 16. Then the 11 disciples, because now we've already addressed Judas, went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. And when they saw him...

They worshipped him, but some doubted. Now, I'm stopping here because he's already gone through the seven I Am's through John.

We're just in Matthew's version. Yeah, he's about to ascend. Well, he gives them another one. He gives them a number eight. Let's see it down there. Then Jesus came to them and said, all authority, well, here's the heaven and earth coming together, has been given to me. Ephesians 1 says the same thing. This was God's plan. Heaven wasn't as far as we thought it was away, going back to Genesis 1. I mean, this just has the whole package.

Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations. Well, now we're getting into vocation here. All nations, go make disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and the Holy Spirit, and teach them to obey everything I've commanded you, which is that why come and see me. And surely, well, here it is, I am with you always to the very end of the age.

Well, how is that even possible? Right. Because we know he's fixing to leave. Yep. Well, how is he going to be with them always?

Must have to send something to live inside of maybe. I don't know. Now we're good. That's why when I read that, I was like, how have I missed this? Because it's such a profound statement about living forever with Jesus, which is why he's going to give us his Holy Spirit, which he says, and I, look, am with you always. Now, when did that start? As soon as he left.

I think it started when he said it. Yeah. I am with you. Right. Always. I'm with you. Always. Till the very end of the age. Well, what age is he talking about? The age of this age? The world? Pre-resurrected body? Okay. But that means I'm with you right now. Right. And which John...

Kind of goes further down that. Remember when it says he breathed on him? In this section of John, he breathed on them the Holy Spirit, which I think was a reflection of when God breathed on Adam and Eve. Right. So they could, well, he breathed on Adam, gave him the breath of life. Well, now this is the new creation. And by that, he gave them his spirit. And then he said, as the Father sent me, I now send you, which is John's.

kind of great commission. Yeah. Don't you find that fascinating? it's good. It's really good. Yeah. He, uh, I think it's interesting. The gospel of Matthew, it starts the same way too. When he says that, uh,

Emmanuel, which means God with us. That's at the very beginning of Matthew is that God is here. God's with us now in Jesus. And then at the very end of Matthew, he says, I'm going to be with you. I am with you forever. So it's kind of like the accomplishment of what he came to do, which was, again, presence. That's why I think that we have to read the Bible through the lens of God.

His presence with his people. That is the ultimate goal of his entire plan of what he's accomplishing. And he's going to do that and does do that despite human failing. That's the whole temple stuff, everything we've talked about, the temple, the kingdom, all of it, the atoning sacrifice. Everything is pointing to that reality that God is going to live forever.

with humans and probably more specifically in humans well that's what i'm saying my point is he said the wording on that is tricky yeah i'm with you always to the very end of the age so you're like well which is it i'm with you always or to the end of this age yeah so i'm saying i'm

That is, now all these other verses start making sense. Romans 8, 11. If the Spirit of Christ, who raised Him from the dead, is living in you, then He who gave life to Jesus will also give life to your mortal body. Once they got the Spirit...

You are with Jesus always, but it's connecting heaven and earth. He's at the right hand of God in heaven, but there's a connection now been formed because he poured out his spirit into their hearts. Heaven and earth has come together. So he's with you always. Well, to the very end of this age, which is pre him coming back, new bodies, new heaven and earth. I don't know any other way to read it.

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That's why these disciples in John 1, I don't think they obviously didn't understand what you just said in that moment. They just understood it in part because he says when he's calling all these guys out, and then in verse 43, it says,

Philip found Nathanael and told him, we have found the one Moses wrote about in the law.

and about whom the prophets also wrote Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph. So they understood the arrival of the Messiah, at least in part, in context of the Old Testament. They didn't quite understand it fully yet because they were thinking too small, as Jesus is going to point out here in just a second. Nazareth? Can anything good come from Nazareth? Nathaniel asked. Come and see, said Philip. When Jesus saw Nathaniel approaching, he said to him,

Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit. How do you know me? Nathanael asked. Jesus answered, I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you. Then Nathanael declared, Rabbi, you are the Son of God.

You are the king of Israel. So I think that was the context that they are thinking, king of Israel, the Messiah, the one that Moses talked about, but their understanding of what Israel or who Israel is was limited because Jesus said, you believe because I told you that I saw you under the fig tree. In other words, I performed a miracle. But you will see greater things than that.

He then added, very truly, I tell you, you will see heaven open and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man. And that's probably a reference to the Son of Man passage in Daniel chapter 7 when Jesus appears before the Ancient of Days. Well, I don't think it's probably. It is. And it's also referenced earlier in that in Genesis 28 with Jacob. Now we're going back to Jacob and Esau.

Which, you know, talking about Jesus is the bread of life, I mean, Esau gave up his birthright for a meal to show you the power of hunger. That's a good point. It really is, you know. Well, when you think about this Daniel 7 picture, because what's the, I guess this comes up again, by the way, in Mark 13 as well, and repeatedly in Scripture, like Jesus is referring to himself as the son of man.

But when we read a text like Mark 13, it seems like it's talking about the second coming. It's not. It's talking about the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in AD 70. But just a simple reading of it, you'll miss that. You'll miss what it's really talking about. But when he mentions this Son of Man coming,

That is a picture of Christ being vindicated. This is a picture of Christ ruling as king, being vindicated. If you go back and read Daniel 7, what you're going to notice is it's not about Christ coming to earth, not this Son of Man thing. It's about Christ, the Son of Man, coming before the Ancient of Days, the Father. And the Ancient of Days then gives him full...

full dominion over everything and puts all the nations under his rule and reign. So it's this picture of a king of Israel, but your definition of king and your definition of Israel is probably too small. Christ is going to reign over all of it. Going back to your text that you read at the end of Matthew, what does he say before he says any of that? He says, "...all authority..."

on heaven and earth has been given to me. And what does he tell them to do? Go make disciples of who? The nations. It's like this perfect picture. God had a plan, and he accomplished it in Jesus. And this is what he's foretelling right here. They don't know what that means yet, but they're going to find out. Well, I want to read the Genesis 28. So at 28, 12, Jacob had a dream. This is 28, 12.

in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. There above it stood the Lord, and he said, I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying. I'll skip down and read verse...

The end of verse 14, all peoples on earth will be blessed through you. All peoples, all nations on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring. Verse 15, I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go. That sounds familiar. I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go. I am. Okay, you got it.

Which is God's nickname. Yeah. I am. But I'm saying I think we missed that one in 28. Then he says, I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I promised you. But here's just a fascinating verse. When Jacob awoke from his sleep, he thought, surely the Lord is in this place. And I was not aware of it. But I just think in our culture, in our time,

Thinking of God, that sentence, it really spoke to me because I really feel like a lot of people, they're surrounded by God and they're not aware of it. They don't realize how close heaven is, how close God is, especially when you read all the verses that we've been reading about. Even in this dream, he's like, well, God was here. You look at Genesis 1, God was there.

He was there. Yeah. When the tabernacle, God's presence was there. Remember when he opened the eyes of the war, when the war was going on, what was it, Elisha? Mm-hmm. Second Kings 5. Yeah, Second Kings 5. It was like, oh, look how close this is. Remember when Stephen, he preached. Acts 7. Yeah, and they started throwing rocks. Well, he looked up, and he sees Jesus at the right hand of God. Mm-hmm.

You know, you can't see very far. That's right. It's just that layer was peeled back for him, and all of a sudden Jesus is standing. So I just think there's a danger when you think that God –

is a million miles away. Hang on, Zach. We're out of time. Oh, I got one thing. It takes two seconds. The place where God met with man was Bethel. That's Genesis 28. Yeah, the house of God. That's what it meant. The house of God. What's happening here in this text is...

Jesus is saying, I am the new house of God. I am the new meeting place. I am Bethel. Going back to your I am. He didn't say it that explicitly, but that's the imagery that I think would have probably been in the mind of the Second Temple Judaism would have been, wait, he's talking, they may not have got it yet, but he's dripping this for the imagination that he is not the dwelling in the city. No doubt.

You're now the house of God. So we'll pick this up in our next one, but just one little tease. And you know what Jacob left behind to mark the house of God? A stone. A rock.

Boom. We'll pick that up next time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.