Ep 1105 | Does the Bible Really Support the Doctrine of the Trinity?
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What about you? I got Shane Everett and Shane Bernard are coming in. Oh, Shane and Shane. We always love it when Shane and Shane is in town. We're going to crash at your house and we're just going to see what kind of mess we... We're going to eat your food and we're going to drink your drinks.

Well, you know, Zach, I've been on a little diet here lately, so I'm not exactly sure that old Shane and Shane are going to enjoy what I'm eating, but they might. No, wait till you see Shane Everett. He's lost a lot of weight, too, so he's doing the same thing. There you go. I like it. Well, it's always fun to have those guys in and on the podcast. We're going to have them on the podcast as well, I'm understanding. Possibly. And Jace and Missy are going to do maybe some singing live.

Whoa. Now I know why you started without me. Throw out the singing. I was just singing a song. We heard you. It sounded really good. I went out, and the TV people are here today. Yeah. And so I just saw them, and I burst into song.

The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. That's a good one. His mercies never come to an end. That's a really good one. I wanted our church to sing that song. That's funny you sang that because we're not a cappella, but I wanted to sing that song on Sunday and nobody knew it. Well, here's why I was singing it because the last podcast, I was getting to the line that we talked about all things new.

Because then the last little stanza says, they are new every morning. They are new every morning. Hold warning. Is that the one you're going to sing with the Shanes when they come in? Well, we should. That's a good idea. Because now that I've understood that new has many definitions, it's

At least two in the group. If you weren't on the last podcast, go back one because he's referencing the last podcast. Well, here's what I should have said. You know how you say something? Because it's new to me. Get it? This is a new concept of the understanding the newness of life. I think when, what was it, Romans 6, 4? I was looking that up after we finished.

It says, we were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. New life. So that was the quality definition in the Greek, that one used there. So the Hebrew version of that, because I just sang that song, Lamentation...

3, 22, and 23. But look, think about that. Now, I don't know how many Hebrew words there are because the Old Testament is written in Hebrew, New Testament, Greek. But the implications of that statement shows you the different avenues of new because it says they are new every morning.

So what I should have said last podcast, these different words, think Revelation 21, this new heaven and new earth, all things new. The reason we only have one English word for new, in my opinion, is because it's just new, and then it's no longer new. But the implications of pouring the new wine into the new wineskins is that

We can participate in the new creation, and it never gets old. It never gets old. The quality. Well, that word doesn't make sense in the English language. You know what? I just thought about something when you said that, that is a great parallel passage in 2 Corinthians 3, because we were talking about light.

And then, because all this started with light, and then you had this concept of nudeness, because you ended up in Mark 2 with new wineskins. Yeah. But if you read the whole thing about light, well, one of it is, and then we went to Revelation 21 and 22, talked about they're going to see the face of the Lord, and He'll be shining, and it'll be the light to the world. Jesus is the light of the world. John 8 is where it all started. 2 Corinthians 3 says,

is also a picture of light, because Moses would look at God, have interactions with God, and he would have to put a veil over his face because he would be glowing. And the picture in Revelation, I mean, in 2 Corinthians 3, is that with unveiled faces, now we can actually behold who Jesus is.

who God really is because we're living by the Spirit, and it says that we will be transformed from one degree of glory to another. So it's that progressive language that you're talking about. You don't consume it all. Because trying to define this newness that he is using in the Greek, there's different qualities to it, and you see it. It's like that 2 Corinthians 3 also says, where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is...

Freedom. Freedom. Yeah. I mean, you go back to John 8. I mean, what he said, you'll know the truth, and the truth will set you free. And remember, they were talking about, we haven't been slaves to anyone. Well, I just read Romans 6, 4. You have this new life.

And then it says, it goes on to say, verse 6 of chapter 6 of Romans, For we know that our old self, there's the old, was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. Because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

from sin. So you'll see the different qualities of this newness, which you say, what does that mean to me practically now? Here's what it means. When you go buy a new truck, well, they say when you roll it out of the parking lot, it goes down in value. I don't know what the amount is. Right, 10%. 10%, that's gone. At least, yeah. And guess what? It's not new anymore. You have now...

Stop the English definition of newness. But when Jesus takes the wheel, see how I did that? Yep. That newness will never stop. It's new every morning like his mercies. That's why 1 John 3 is so confusing to people because it says, you know, where it says, he who is born of God does not continue to sin.

And people say, well, you know, we're going to study 1 John after this, and we're big picture. We're giving you the grid to understand that based on the book of John here. Because how does that make sense? In fact, I mean, I'll give you an illustration. In 1 John 1, it says if we claim to be without sin, we make him out to be a liar.

But then a few verses later, he's like, anyone born of God does not continue to sin. So which is it? But it's because you're now in a state of newness based on Jesus' death on a cross and him saying,

being presented in heaven itself as an atonement for your sins. He's literally a sacrifice presented to the presence of the Father on your behalf and has given you his Holy Spirit, which is this new heaven and new earth. And you're in a state of newness every morning. The forgiveness is happening. Now it says, you know, 1 John, if we confess our sins, he's faithful because we're honest with God.

our relationship and His presence in our life. But it makes more sense if you're looking at one of the qualities of that freedom in Christ as a newness that is just continual now. Not just, oh, we're waiting on a new heaven and a new earth. Yeah, the places per se. But even, Jase, even you singing that song, that verse from Lamentation 3,

from a period. You know what the word lamentation means? The passionate expression of grief or sorrow, weeping. This was the worst time in Israel's history. Jeremiah got no one to make the right turn, and he writes one of the greatest passages in the entire Bible about

newness right in the middle. You know why? Because that's why God chose us to be here despite all this evil and suffering because we in a place of lament and pain can bring forth hope through God in our life.

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Well, that's what Christ did. Christ, Christ suffered the worst possible, like his, the passion of Christ, right? Was actually suffering for our sin and that he would be sacrificed for our atonement. But I love this John eight passage. I was thinking about it as I was reading through it, um, in our, not, not during the podcast, but as I was meditating on it this week, knowing that we were coming into this podcast, we've been hitting on like the, you know, Jesus being the light of the world. And, um,

That took us on quite the rabbit trail, but I think it's actually more than a rabbit trail. It is a thread throughout all of Scripture, all the way through to the very end of the Bible in Revelation 22. But the Pharisees, it's interesting to me that they did not have room for what he was saying. And if you read the interaction, you get to understand one of the things that they could not get their mind around, and I understand why, but they could not get their mind around

that God was more than one person. Yeah, man, there's so much language in here about the interaction of Jesus and

and the Father, and he's clearly showing that they're like one, but they're also like separate. They're not separate. They're also like distinct. They're not like... It's like this beautiful picture that he's painting here of the very nature of God as being triune. That's why every now and then we'll get a pushback from some of the audience who maybe don't believe that God is triune. I would say, go read a passage like this, and how do you make sense of this? If

If he's not, because he says here, when he answers them, they say, so will you, you bear witness about yourself and your testimony is not true. And Jesus answered them. Even if I do bear witness about myself, I,

My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I'm going, and you do not know where I come from or where I'm going. You judge according to the flesh. I judge no one. Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father who sent me.

So there's clearly some kind of eternal relationship here that Jesus is unfolding before these people, and they don't have an understanding of that, but Jesus actually anchors his argument in the fact that in the eternal relationship of the Father and the Son,

It actually gives credibility to the witness of what they are saying together. He's actually making this argument that what I'm saying is true because I don't say it by myself. I say it with my father. No, that's really good. You're exactly right. And in their defense of the first century Pharisees, they had never, they didn't know who the Messiah was. They were looking, but they were looking not in the correct place.

And then they never really understood the role of the Spirit. That's why when Jesus was baptized, you see that moment.

where you have the voice of Yahweh, which they did understand, but you had the embodiment, Jesus, here in flesh, and then you had the Holy Spirit. It said, seen as a dove. So whatever that picture was that looked like, you saw in that moment the picture you're describing. And John told them clearly what he saw, but they just still weren't quite ready to grasp it. So let me reset John 8.

And we'll pick up in this next text because what Jace did with his rabbit hole, which was fascinating, Jace, I agree.

about the light of the world is he really tied it in to chapter 8, 21 through 29, which was the text of above or below. Could I say one thing for you, dude? Sure. That Jace was talking about the quantity and the quality of the word new, and then we made kind of this relational context of that in John 17, 3, when Jesus defines what eternal life is. He says it's actually...

It's actually more about who you know as opposed to how long you're existing. It's more about the context of real life is to actually know who God is. And so the accusation going into verse 21 to the Pharisees in verse 19 is this, that you don't really know the Father. Because they said to Him, where is your Father? And Jesus says, you know neither me nor the Father.

So if you knew me, you would know the Father also. These words he spoke in the treasury as he taught in the temple, but no one arrested him because the hour had not yet come. So his accusation against them is that you're actually not experiencing eternal life, which he'll later define in the Gospel of John, as to know God, the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, and the incarnation in Jesus. He said, if you don't know me, you don't know him. So his accusation is you do not know God. That is his accusation and why they can't understand what he's saying.

And which is why he kept saying, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father. So what happens is the above had to come to the below because he said, I'm not from the below. I'm from the above. So he came from there, but he became one of us in the below. He said he would be lifted up. Verse 28, when you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know.

That I am the one I claim to be. And so we know that he was talking about his death, but not just his death, but also his ascension back to the above. The interesting thing, he was lifted up twice because he was lifted up to save our sins, to save all of us and to show us who he is and why he came to sacrifice himself, lifted up on a cross. But he was also lifted up.

in the heavens in the sense that he left here. And when that happened, the Holy Spirit came and now we all have him. So I just, I love that, that that led these people in the moment, at least in the moment, and to have some bit of faith in him. Because you can't refute that. I mean, they couldn't even refute that in the moment. I mean, they were like, okay, you got us. You know, we see. I think what's interesting, Zach, making that point about he's basically calling

God the Father, his witness, which is, I think Paul did that in a couple of his writings also. He's like, as God is my witness. Because we never think about it. Just think about your life. And I've used that before when people are defending something that's not moral and they're claiming to be followers of Jesus. I'm like, well, let's, and they're justifying it. I'm like, well, let's call God as a witness.

Because he knows all. He sees all. It's always kind of a pause when that thought happens. Because most people who are justifying evil behavior are not thinking that God is aware that they're justifying evil behavior. Yeah. It's like when they think about it. Let me just think about your life or all the trial cases we watch. You know, like, I now call...

God, the creator of the universe, to the stand on my behalf, which is what Jesus was doing. And so what I think is interesting when he uses this witness language is in Acts 1, when he gathered up his disciples, and he's like, I'm going to...

give you the power to do this. You start here and go to the ends of the world and preach, but I'm going to pour out my spirit on you. But then he says that key phrase, and you will be my witnesses. Well, I brought up that first John because once he gives us the Holy Spirit, we, in essence, operate just like Jesus was operating and defending himself by saying,

Well, in your law, it says you've got to have the testimony of at least two or three witnesses. And my witness is the Father, which is quite the statement, which is putting him on equal ground. Well, I think it's interesting in 1 John, watch how this gets passed on to the disciples and ultimately us. So like 1 John 1, 2, it says the life appeared first.

We have seen it and testify, which is the same word that Jesus is using here in John 8. And we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. I mean, John got it. He's like, this guy was with the Father and he appeared to us and we're testifying just like he testified. We're testifying to you now.

And then he brings it up again in 4.14, which I think is awesome of 1 John. It says, if I read verse 13, this is going back to Acts 1. We know that we live in him and he in us because he's given us his spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

And that's what they weren't getting. But John's got it now because he says, if anyone acknowledged that Jesus is the son of God, God lives in him and he in God. And now we're back to the steadfast love of the Lord where it says, and so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God and God in him.

And that way, love is made complete. And we'll have confidence on the day of judgment because in this world, we are like him. And then 1 John 5, 6, which is very hard to understand. I think the framework that we've presented, this whole thing that's coming from John 8, kind of gives you now what this means. Because he says in 1 John 5, 6,

right after he said, who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. And then it says, verse 6, this is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, which I believe is when he was baptized, because then the Father declared him the Son of God, and blood he declared himself as sent from God, because

because then it says he did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the spirit who testifies. There's that word again. Same word as witnesses. Now the spirit's included in this because the spirit is truth for there are three that testify the spirit, the water and the blood. I mean, if you look at it from a, as Zach says, a Trinitarian view, uh,

You're like, what happened at his baptism? The father declared him the son of God. What happened to the blood? He declared himself as the redeemer of the human race from God and the spirit. And they are in agreement. And then it says, we accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his son. Right.

which is what he's doing in John 8, and the response is not going well at this time. Al, I'm looking over your right shoulder.

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That's really that's a perfect setup to this now because we're at a transition point within John 8. And I want to read this text because in my outline, I call this who's your daddy. And the reason I call it that was because there's this point where he says, even as he spoke, many put their faith in him.

And then it starts in verse 31, says to the Jews who have believed him, and he's going to start in the next one. So there's a turning point in the conversation where it seems like they're getting it.

But not really. And that's why I called it Who's Your Daddy? Do you remember, Jace? It's been probably now, goodness, probably almost 30 years ago, there was a pitcher named Pedro Martinez. Oh, yeah. He started with the Dodgers in his early career, and then he winds up on the Red Sox, which was kind of his most famous period.

And it was right at the height of Red Sox-Yankees rivalry. You know, the Yankees are winning early, and then the Red Sox finally win the World Series. But he was right in the middle of all that. And he had this – I think he's the one that actually started it. But he was like, we own you. Who's your daddy? Right?

And he started this thing and it was a taunt. It was a chant. And I just remember, I just remember so clearly when he was pitching in New York, they had a chant. Who's your daddy? They clap, clap, clap, clap, clap. And it was just like this whole thing for like three or two or three years in a row. There was this back and forth taunt between Pedro Martinez, Yankee fans and all these different things that were going on. And I couldn't help but think about it. It's always about who owns whom.

Because that was the whole idea of the taunt. But that's exactly what happens in the context where Jesus is about to take them because they're looking at him. They say, OK, you got us. We can't argue with who you are. So we're going to take you at your word.

But all he does is give them a couple of challenges in this next context. And the next thing you know, they're picking up rocks again. Well, right. And don't forget where we launched in all that newness. He had said three times that if you don't listen to me and believe this, you're going to die in your sins. Yes. I mean, he's trying to liberate them. Right. Which comes into the slavery language later and trying to give them this opportunity

quality of newness that is hard to even describe now and later culminating with you being a part of the new heaven and new heavens and new earth for eternity we hadn't even talked about that we're talking about now you get all this newness but well later's pretty good throw in there

Because I think that phrase, which then introduces how he's going to defeat the evil one, which he's going to first mention here, but it's going to come up the rest of the book. It all goes back to what happened in the garden when he said, don't eat that tree, eat of that tree, for if you do, you will die. God said that. And the evil one was like...

Oh, you're not going to die if you eat of that. And remember Eve's looking at it like, Ooh, I'd like to have this, you know, God-like power of knowing, determining good and evil for myself. And so that's why we spent all that time talking about newness because that little phrase in there,

is not talked about, but he's like, look, you're going to die in your sins if, and he's at the temple, which I think, you know, personally, the context of it, you know, he was foreshadowing this temple that you've put all your hopes and dreams on that I'm the fulfillment of. You're going to die in

In your sins, maybe when that temple is destroyed, which, you know, a lot of them are killed. The temple was desecrated. And so he's making all these connections and he's like, what I have to offer, there's no death involved. He's the fulfillment of where it all went bad, sin and death. Well, there's death involved, but it's his death.

Well, it's a different kind of death. It's like instead of you dying in your sins, the reason I read that Romans 6, and if you, I mean, very seldom does a preposition just change your life. But that when in Romans 6, when Paul, there's a difference. You said, what is the difference in dying in your sin and dying to sin? How big a difference is that?

Well, it's a big difference. Yeah, it's huge. It's like the greatest difference in the world. You can die in your sins or you can get rid of sin, which is why he would later on say in Romans 8 through Jesus, 8, 3, and 4, he condemned sin in sinful man. I mean, he like condemned sin itself.

And to go to the death part, you know, in 1 Corinthians 15, when he comes back, he will destroy as the last enemy, physical death itself. So people try to make it a spiritual thing. They said, well, he must be talking about a spiritual thing. But I keep going back to the garden and say, even though they didn't die immediately, everybody in the religious world, you know, tries to make this a spiritual thing because they didn't immediately die. Right.

But it brought death, which brought the devil's wishes, which is having the power of death on humanity. And when you die in your sins... Yeah, which is, when I said it is about death, though, but it's about the death of Christ, because where he's going in this John 8, 21 through 29, is he's moving into...

One of the most powerful statements in the Gospel of John, which is that verse 28, because you've got to keep in mind, they're like, what are you talking about? Are you going to kill yourself? Is he going to kill himself because he's saying that where I'm going, you can't come? They don't understand what he's talking about. And so he said, you know, you're from below. I'm from above. You're of this world. I'm not of this world. I told you you would die on your sins unless you believe in God.

me, the one who will die for your sins. So they're not, he's telling them about the crucifixion that's coming. And then he says to them that when you have lifted up the son of man, which we already read about this again, when he talked about the serpent on a pole, when you've lifted up the son of man, then you will know that I am he, which is

Exodus chapter 3, burning bush language. I am He. I am He and that I do nothing on my own authority but speak as the Father has taught me. And He who sent me is with me.

He has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him. As he was saying these things, many believed in him. So he's actually telling them that you're going to see the Son of Man, the Daniel 7 guy. You're going to see him lifted up, and he's going to be hung on a cross, and he's actually going to die. I'm that guy. I am he. Oh, I'm agreeing with you. That's where I was going. Because John 12 also, which we'll get to, when Jesus replied in verse...

23, the hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. So the reason I'm reading that is because I'm going back to Romans 6 in this preposition.

Paul gave an argument. Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? He said, by no means. We died to sin. And then he gives a picture of what Jesus just said in John 12, 25. The man who loves his life will lose it. Well, what happened? Because Jesus died, watch what happens.

We die to sin. How can we live in it any longer? Verse 2 of Romans 6. Or don't you know that all of us who are baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? This one seed dying for all the other seeds so they could live. We were therefore buried alive.

just as through baptism into death, and our justice Christ was raised from the dead. Well, now we're back to this new life. We too may live a new life. And then he goes on to the slavery issue, which is verse six. We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with.

Well, that's dying to sin. You get rid of it because Jesus died, and now he's saying the man who loves his life will lose it for me, speaking in the context of his death. And so then it says...

Let's see that we should no longer be slaves to sin because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. Well, now we're back to freedom. Now we're back to this quality of newness. That's hard to describe. If we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him now and later. I threw in the now and later.

For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again. Death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all, but the life he lives, he lives to God in the same way. Count yourselves dead to sin, not in sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. I mean, that'll preach. Yeah, that's good.

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a part of something like that globally, it reminds you of what Jesus said, you know, all authority on heaven and earth is being given to me. Therefore, go make disciples of all nations. And that's what you're doing. That's what One Kingdom is all about. Share Jesus, speak Jesus, show Jesus. One Kingdom has over 100 mission partners in over 40 countries around the world. If you're like us and you're ready to help share the gospel, you may not have that table that we gather around and feed them fish.

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Well, that's what these guys, we had some baptisms at the church this week, actually at the creek, not at the church, but at the creek. And some of the college students got baptized. And one of the guys asked me, because we had gone through that exact passage, Jace, Romans 6. And one of the things that he said is he said, I've never been baptized before.

And I always thought, why do I have to do that? He said, I've always thought about that. I love Jesus. I know Jesus. Why do I have to be baptized? I don't have to do that. I don't have to do that. And I've always heard it put in two words, baptism. And I said, what were those two words? He said, public profession. That's what I thought it was. I don't have to do that. He said, when you read that Romans 6 passage,

He said, I moved from why do I have to do that to why would I not want to do that? Yeah, it's a terrible question when somebody asks that. It's kind of like when you study the book of Revelation, I listened to a sermon here not too long ago.

And it was from a few years ago. And it was old Mackey. And he had two pictures. He was talking about the new heavens and the new earth in Revelation 21. But he was trying to describe Revelation. I thought this was very clever and very interesting. So he had two cartoon pictures of when Hillary Clinton was running against Trump. So when was that?

2016. Yeah, 2016. But they were cartoons. And one of them, she was dressed up, and he's like, forget how you view about the candidates. Just look at the cartoon. One of them was Hillary Clinton was dressed up like a Star Wars kind of Darth Vader. I forgot what the cartoon said. But then on the other side was Trump in a car like Indianapolis 500, and he's like,

was having a wreck right before he got to the finish line, you know? And in each one, they had a donkey in the Hillary Clinton one that was kind of laughing at her speaking as a Star Wars representative. And then you had an elephant. He was the only onlooking fan of the elephant

the crash with Trump. But you say, well, what does all that mean? His point was that Revelation was written in imagery. And if you didn't know the history of what was going on there, it would be like you asking, like taking those two cartoons to a foreign country 2,000 years from now and say, what do you think this means?

And they're looking at an elephant. Because even in Revelation, there's all this imagery and animals. Well, you would have no idea. You're asking all the wrong questions because you have no idea who these people are, what they represent. And I thought it was a really good illustration. And even while I'm reading Romans 6, it has very little to do with baptism and more about the death of Jesus.

And having the same qualities of John chapter 8, because he's bringing up about this being a slave to sin, dying in sin, not recognizing who he is, not recognizing where he came from. And then when you fast forward after he dies and buried and raised, and Paul writing a letter to people who have been baptized, and then he's the one that made the illustration of this death.

You die. You die because Jesus died on the cross. He's making the connection, not us. It wasn't an argument about baptism. He was saying, look at the freedom you have. Look at the new life you have. It's all the good stuff. Look, you don't have sin anymore. That's gone. You've been detached from

You see that, John 8, I think that's the thing. It's not about the baptism of something you have to do. You have to read all this through that lens again. You read it through the lens of God's presence, because what's happening in this section here is he's building a case, kind of like it's a story that's unfolding. So this part of the story is about the death.

It's about Christ's death, but it's also about our own death because he's like, you're going to die in your sins unless you believe in me. So it's about getting connected. But if you read Romans 6...

it's not just about death. It's also about being connected with the resurrection of Christ. And so baptism, you know, Peter says it's not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but it's a pledge of a good conscience towards God that saves you by the resurrection. So you're also being connected with the resurrection, which I think is why the very next part of John 8, Jesus is talking now about how do you abide in

in him? How do you find true freedom? It's to abide, to live in the presence, to abide in his word. So it's like from death to life. That's the picture that he's continuing to paint. That's why I brought up this new and new, because that's what happens when you're born again. You're born again new, as in the time of it, but you're also born new. You're new

And new. That second new is way more quality because it's a... It makes all the difference. Because here's what happens, Jace. People interpret it as coming to Jesus so that you can get...

a bunch more life, meaning a bunch more numbers to your life. When one of these acts, you say, no, no, no, you come to Jesus, you will get that. But no, what's important is the quality of the life that you're going to get. So the freedom is what you're after. You're going to get a better quality of life. You're going to get the good life that

That's what we're after, good life. But here's the dirty little secret, Zach, and it may not be what you think is the good life. That's why a person who's a paraplegic or a person who's in abstract poverty or a person who's in situations around the world that we would look at and say, well, that doesn't seem like that's very good. But when you understand the internal piece of eternal life here –

then no matter what your circumstance, that's what Paul said at Philippians. He said, I have learned that no matter what the circumstances are, I am in Christ and I have eternal life. And now we're back to Lamentations, the most depressing book in the Bible with one of the greatest verses ever.

Because we're in the steadfast love of the Lord that's new every morning. That's the power of what we're a part of. Which is kind of the point, though, that he's kind of getting at with these guys, and this is repeated throughout all of Scripture, that you don't have eyes to see this or ears to hear this. You can't see this thing until you see it. So it's like a...

you have an imagination problem, is what Jesus would kind of be telling them. You have an imagination problem. You don't even understand what I'm talking about. And to the point that they're so belligerent in their own worldview, and they're so committed to their own position of authority and their own little system they've set up, that they actually are blinded, not just by what Jesus is saying. They're blinded by a gaping reality, because what they say is, he says to them in verse 31...

to the Jews who had believed him, if you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples and you'll know the truth. And the truth will set you free, which is everything we just talked about. And their response, the Pharisees' response to him is absolutely hysterical to me because it's so bizarre considering they're literally under the slavery of Roman occupation.

Right? I mean, Israel is under Roman occupation. And they, by the way, they were enslaved to Egypt too. There's that whole story and others as well. There's a whole list of them. The Babylonian invasion. Read the Old Testament. And so you're like, man, what's the history of Israel? It's a lot of slavery. And then, so they say, we are offspring of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone.

I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, I mean, think about it. They're so into that. They have forgotten their entire history and their current circumstance. And how many times have you sat and talked to someone who is in the spiritual slavery and they think, no, what are you talking about? I'm, I'm, this, I'm free. I can do whatever I want.

I'm miserable, but I'm free. In my own slavery, my own life, how much have I held on to and been like the Jews here and like, I've never been a slave to anybody. Well, now you have. You're actually in slavery now.

So I'm in the market for two properties. We may or may not be getting us a little something up at a little place called Nashville, Jill. Okay. A little studio for my cousin, Jace, when he's traveling. Thank you, buddy. So I'm working on that. But, of course, I'm going to have to take out a loan to make that happen. And that's where our friends...

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Which shows you, Zach, that it said they put their faith in him. In other words, the contradiction they had before they had with your testimony is not true. Where's your father? They're very cynical. So in their minds, they think, well, maybe he's got a point. But did they really believe? No, because the first time they're challenged about their own history, they can't even be truthful about that.

And you see this happen with people today. They say, well, you know, I don't really have, I think there's something out there. How many times have you heard people say that? I mean, I think there may be a higher power somewhere because I can't really explain how things are, you know, set in motion and how things are here. But if you're talking about me having to now give up Bob, and then they start right into the definition of why I'm not really enslaved in anything. Right.

But do you guys think when they say this, do you think that they're lying overtly, or do you think they believe their own lie? Do you think they actually believe that they weren't enslaved to anyone?

Well, I think that's the evil one. That's how he works. Which is why he goes there. I mean, now we're getting into Romans 6, 16, where he said, don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey?

whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or obedience, which leads to righteousness. He's got it down to the two camps, the kingdom of the ruler of the air, which is the evil one, Ephesians 2. So the trick for the evil one, which we didn't bring up, but when Jesus said he is the light of the world, well, I think it's an obscure passage in, is that 2 Corinthians, where it says the evil one

And his posse, it doesn't say posse. Let me read it. Where does it say? He masquerades as an angel of light. Yep. So I think the trick for him is to convince you, that's 2 Corinthians 11, in verse, what is that?

13, talking about deceitful workmen masquerading as apostles of Christ, and no wonder. Yeah, so it's 14. 2 Corinthians 11, 14. No wonder. Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. Well, that understands everything. If he can convince you that he's enslaved you, but you think you're free...

Which is what most people think about religion. They don't want to come to Christ because they're like, well, I like to do stuff. I don't want to. Yeah, I want to be free. But think about, Jase, why that Satan could masquerade as a child of light. Because at one time he was in the presence of God as an angel of the Lord before he made his own choice to rebel. He was a child of light.

Well, that's interesting. And he renounced it. And he said, my way is better. And then he led us in the same rebellion. I mean, it's so clear. Yeah, and he's a father of lies. When he lies, he speaks his native tongue. So it's almost like you believe your own hype. And it's actually a much more devastating diagnosis because –

what Jesus is ultimately getting at here, if you know the truth, the truth will set you free. And so their issue is not that they can't be set free. Their issue is not even that they're in slavery. That's not their issue. Their issue is that they don't know that they're in slavery. Yeah, so when you see this context, you're exactly right. He's laying the groundwork. Because if you look, and this is just a little preview to where we're going.

They after this sort of cynical response. Yeah. Then they are in complete denial. We've never been slaves of anyone. Then they insult Jesus. Well, you're just a Samaritan. You're just a demon possessed person. You're just an illegitimate. We're not illegitimate. I mean, I really think that was personally aimed at him because of his story and background, because, you know, it's like, well, yeah.

here's the guy you talk about who doesn't know who his father is. Oh yeah. We know your story, buddy. We know your story. And so then it's sarcasm. Who do you think you are? And then where does it end up? We're all sin ends up in violence.

Because at the end of the day, they picked up the rocks and they thought, well, you know what? We have no answer for him, so we're just going to kill him. Oh, I found it out. 2 Timothy 2, this is good, 25 and 26. Those who oppose him, he's talking about the Lord's servant must not quarrel. Instead, he must be kind to everyone. And it's like those who oppose him, he must gently instruct in hope that God will grant them repentance, which is what Jesus is trying to do here.

leading them to a knowledge of the truth. Well, there's that. And then here's the key phrase, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil who has taken them captive to do his will. They're just not aware of it. That's a pretty powerful passage. It's very powerful. Yeah, which is scary in some regard because then you think, what if I'm that guy? Am I the person who...

that can't see it. And I think the answer to that is if you're asking that question, that's a good start. Oh, yeah. Right? If you just ask, and then I think it's asking the Lord God, like, show me your truth. Show me who you are. Show me the truth about myself. And that's a hard prayer to pray, but, you know, in the circles that we run in, we're seeing a lot of people come to Christ in the community that we live right here. And

We also see a lot of people who come and are curious, and they're like, man, I really love the spirit of your church, and man, this is... And they're attracted to, like, I would call it the vibe or just the energy in the room and the relationships. And it's really what they're attracted to is the fruit of the Spirit. But sometimes it's like when you get into deeper conversation, like, man, they're not saying this, but I'm interpreting it as we really want the fruit of the Spirit. Is there any way we can get that without the Spirit?

You're like, no. We really love the kingdom of Christ. And man, it's beautiful. Can we have that without the king? And you're like,

No, it's His kingdom. And I think that's really what the first sin of the garden was. We really like this fruit that you provided for us to receive and enjoy as a gift and communion with you as we partake in it. Is there any way we can just have it away from you? And the Lord's like, no, you can't have the fruit away from me because the fruit grows on a tree that

that's in a garden that's watered by the water that flows from myself, like at the tree of life. Like, what are you talking about? No, if you cut me off, you cut off the water that actually gives the tree the life to produce the fruit that you're eating of. And that tends to be a better picture for me to understand the framework of sin, particularly in how we see it as slavery to sin.

It is about, I know God was offended by our violation, but if we just limit it to that, like God was like, it's just a violation, we're missing the big picture of what God is doing. And to our point, Jace asked about what the purpose of the law was.

These are guardrails. They're boundaries for our life, not for our death. These are boundaries and guardrails for our life. The instruction of God is that you would have life and have it abundantly. That's his message. If you abide in me, you'll actually be free. So when you were painting that picture, Zach, I thought about in Acts 8, you know, whenever...

Simon the Sorcerer, you know, he was a sorcerer. He was an illusionist. He was a magician. And he said, I just want the Holy Spirit so I can do really cool stuff and deceive people. And, you know, Peter's like, no, wait a minute. You've missed the whole point.

of renewal and what the Holy Spirit does. Well, look, we're out of time, shockingly, again. But we are now making our move into the meat of the argument in John chapter 8 that Jesus is going to make. So we're going to pick this up next time.

in full force on the Unashamed Podcast. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.