The Elizabeth Journals
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This is The Pikes and Massacre, Return to Pike County. Season 4, Episode 17, The Elizabeth Journals. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KT Studios with Stephanie Lidecker and Jeff Shane. As always, it's important to note that George Wagner has pleaded not guilty to all charges. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges.

Hours of testimony by investigators and relatives have painted a dark picture of the Wagner family and the contentious custody battle between Jake Wagner and Hannah Roden over their daughter. Today, one of the most mysterious and least known figures involved in the case takes the stand. Elizabeth Armour, Jake Wagner's ex-wife, who he met in Alaska. We've reached out to her before, but have never spoken directly with her. We've only heard from Elizabeth on the occasions she posted to social media.

Like Tabitha Clayton, George Wagner's ex-wife, Elizabeth is one of the few people uniquely positioned to discuss the dynamics of the close-knit Wagner family. The murder trial of George Wagner IV continued in Pike County today with new testimony from the ex-wife of Jake Wagner. It was one of the most anticipated moments of George Wagner's trial. When Elizabeth Armour entered the courtroom, George Wagner's eyes followed her.

He glared as she walked across the room and took her seat to be sworn in. Good morning. Good morning. How are you? Nervous. I've said this before, we get done a lot in that particular chair. So we'll just take this slow. And if I say anything that you don't understand or is a confusing question, just let me know that, okay? Can you please state your name and spell your last name?

My name is Elizabeth Armour. My last name is A-R-M-E-R. The 29-year-old spoke softly as she described growing up in a religiously conservative community in eastern Tennessee and what led to her move to Alaska. I grew up in an Amish Mennonite community for most of my teen years. And because of that, I did not have a high school education since they would go to eighth grade.

And so friends of mine from the same road that I lived on, that I had kind of grown up with a little bit, we were working with a church there in Alaska that had like a parish school.

And so they offered to help me get my high school education because I was interested in pursuing a more standard kind of lifestyle. Even though Elizabeth wanted a more traditional life, she still stayed close to her conservative religious roots and attended a fundamentalist Baptist church in Alaska where she met the Wagners. How did you come to start attending that particular church?

So that particular church was the church that my friends from Tennessee were attending, and that is the church which had the school as part of it, and the teachers at that school were going to give me classes after school to help me get up to speed with GED. And so I was going there just, you know, because my friends were attending.

Were you fairly involved with the church above and beyond getting your GEDs? I worked in the nursery sometimes and I sang in the choir because I liked to sing. I helped one of the teachers with a Christmas program that the church put on.

The Wagner family moved from Ohio to Alaska in the summer of 2017, a little more than a year after the murders.

Elizabeth met them through the church shortly after they arrived. And can you tell us what was your first encounter with one Mormon? My first memory of the Wagners was Jake and Angela, maybe the whole family, but I just remember Jake and Angela and the children walking into church, and I remember thinking they were a couple with a child. Okay.

And did you have any interactions with them at that time or was that just an observation? It was just an observation. Okay. And then was there another time where you had another awareness of one of their, one or more of them? So my next memory of the Wagners was that I had come out of the nursery for taking care of the children and I looked down the hallway and it looked like Jake was at the other end of the hallway kind of

Jake later found her on Facebook and asked Elizabeth out. Despite her interest in Jake, Elizabeth told him she wasn't comfortable going out with someone she didn't know. So what happened next?

So he made a point of introducing himself to me personally next time he was at church and wanted to chat with me in the gym. Soon after, Jake and Elizabeth began dating. Their life as a couple revolved around the church and the small community they lived in. Sometimes we would go out and get meals just from local, I don't want to say fast food restaurants. I remember getting ice cream from Dairy Queen. I think we went for walks.

and you would sometimes just go for a drive. Okay. Was there a point where you learned that there was some negative information regarding Jake and his family? Yes. So shortly after the landers started coming to the church, the pastor of the church showed up basically in front of the church.

and saying that he had known them in Ohio and that there was some kind of news story out about them and that they had been bothered by the news and that because they had been bothered by the news, they moved to Alaska.

And that we should not really pay attention to the news about them and just welcome them into the community. And did you also ask, or did Jake offer an explanation of it as well? He did. And what did he describe for you at that time?

He said basically what the pastor had, that his family had been hounded by the news media, that there was a scandal where he grew up, that his, I think, ex-girlfriend had been murdered, and that people were putting him under suspicion because he had dated her, and that that was why there was the news story out. Okay. And again, did you more or less accept those explanations from the pastor and from Jake?

As Jake and Elizabeth's relationship grew more serious, Elizabeth met more of his family.

She also witnessed firsthand the family dynamics. So when I met them, basically what I remember from going to their house was that everybody was yelling. That was my impression that everybody was yelling. And you said there was yelling. Tell me about that.

Well, it just seemed like everybody was really angry and stressed and that they were all shouting. I hadn't really heard people shout that loudly in my life. And I remember Jake saying that they were stressed and that, you know, everybody was stressed. Okay.

And can you tell us, was there a point where your relationship got more serious with Jake? Nine months after I met him, he asked me to marry him. Initially, Jake promised Elizabeth a long engagement so they could continue to get to know each other. But according to Elizabeth, he kept changing his timeline and pressured her to marry quickly. How did it change? So...

Jacob changed the timeline so like Initially he said they would be engaged for two years and then as time went on you kept giving reasons Why all we have to move the data all we have to move the data and he just kept doing that over and over and over and over and You know here. I am in the middle of making wedding plans, and then suddenly I have to move and I'm busy and trying to

And ultimately, what was the reason as to why it had to be that time? He said that he was moving and that he basically wanted to break it off or come with them.

Jake told Elizabeth his entire family planned on moving to a farm in Missouri to raise camels and pigs, and that they would have to get married quickly, which they did. Can you tell us what happened on your wedding night? Since I grew up Amish, basically, I wasn't actually Amish, but I grew up in that kind of lifestyle, that community, very similar lifestyle. I hadn't dated anybody and didn't have any experience with men.

And so I had requested in no uncertain terms that we not consummate marriage on that night, which Jake had agreed to but did not honor. After forcing Elizabeth to have sex on their wedding night, Elizabeth says Jake demanded access to all of her personal information. And when you say he asked you for your personal information, what kind of personal information are you talking about in the term?

My bank account access numbers, my social security card numbers, my phone passcode, and at the same time he also synced my phone with his so that he could see all of my calls and texts. Did you also have to sign agreements prior to marriage or any time?

But Jake Wagner's desire to control his new wife didn't stop there. On your way.

when it happened, did Jake also discuss with you that you should not have contact with your family? He did. And tell me about that. So two of my brothers in their early childhood had sexually experimented with me when I was quite young. My family didn't have like sex education.

So they were, both of them under the age of 10. And so the first one had kind of approached me inappropriately when I was three or four years old. And then another one at a completely different occasion when I was about seven years old. And so because of that, Jake asked me to cut contact with my family on my wedding night.

The day after the wedding, all of the Wagners, except its newest member Elizabeth, left by car from Missouri.

A week later, after sorting out her passport, Elizabeth joined the entire family: Jake, George, Angela, Billy, and the children living in one small cramped hotel room. Elizabeth was horrified at the living situation and tried to leave. But when she left the overcrowded hotel room to call her brother for help, Jake found her and brought her back.

So when I got back to the hotel room, everybody was agitated. Angela, George, Jake, they kind of confronted me about having left the room by myself and said that it wasn't really safe for me to leave the room by myself because news reporters might be, you know,

outside and try to bother me or get me to talk to him or something like that. Then I needed to only leave the room with someone with me. The Wagners' time in Missouri was short. Even though Jake promised Elizabeth they would never move back to Ohio because of the news coverage and the police investigation, the family returned a few days after failing to find a farm in Missouri. I was unhappy about it because

Life in Ohio was just as cramped and chaotic as ever. With the entire Wagner family living under one roof, tensions were always near a boiling point.

Can you describe to us the family dynamics when you were living there with them, between Jake and George and Angela? How did they interact with each other? How were decisions made, all that? Okay, so usually interactions were strained as far as I remember. They were usually highly stressed and emotional, angry. Again, the shouting continued.

Though she was now a member of the Wagner family, Elizabeth was often asked to leave the room. Angela and George Wagner particularly did not trust her. Usually they would happen in the kitchen, um,

I wasn't usually asked to join them, I just remember that I would hear people discussing things in the kitchen and because it was so loud I would hear people talking about what they were going to do, what their plans were, how they were going to answer certain questions when people asked them.

How they were going to use their finances, all that in the kitchen. So those were the general topics that you would hear them discussing? They would talk about finances, how they would answer media questions. I think at that point they were mentioning BCI questions or police questions about the children or about their clothes or shoes or...

Here's Stephanie and Jeff. She makes mention of growing up kind of Amish-like in her words. And I assume that means that she was a bit insulated and that she was maybe raised in a bit of a bubble. And on the one hand, that would make her a prime target for education.

a family of predators because she's potentially naive and unaware of the outside world. And on the other side of that, we've also heard rumors that some of the Wagners were very paranoid that she was working for law enforcement from day one and they just didn't trust her. So the fact that she's opted in to be recorded and have video to tell her story is extremely big and very brave.

Obviously, we can't know what she's feeling, but to face George Wagner in court and to put her face and likeness out there, I think says a lot about where she is. It's also interesting...

Steph, obviously we don't know what George Wagner was feeling, but we do know that he rarely looks up or shows any sort of emotion. And he definitely looked up at Elizabeth and almost looked like he was glaring. And he then tracked her as she walked into the courtroom. So if we're trying to surmise what he might be feeling, he definitely has some strong feelings about the fact that she's testifying.

One discussion stuck out. Elizabeth remembered the Wagners talking about creating a bulletproof bulldozer to knock down prison walls if any of the Wagners landed in jail.

And she remembered them talking about key aspects of the investigation. Can you tell us what discussions did you hear about shoes? I mostly remember them talking about tennis shoes and saying something about, like, somebody thought Angela had bought tennis shoes from Walmart, but that was ridiculous because they wore boots. And they kind of, like, impressed that on me multiple times. Like, do you think we would buy...

Tennis shoes and boots, because we wear boots, and they mention it multiple times. Going back to your living with the Wagners, did Angela ever have conversations with you about the sexual relations you were having with Jake? Yes. Okay. And can you remember what specifically she discussed with you?

So I remember her asking if Jake and I were trying to have a child and telling me that it wasn't a good time for to have a child. I remember her asking if Jake and I had sexual relations with in the room and I remember her suggesting that that was inappropriate. I remember Jake and I having that discussion and I remember

Tell him that I did not think it was appropriate and that he did not listen. So you basically agreed that it was appropriate. Yes. And you expressed that to Jake. Yes. Did Angela ever accuse you of things regarding either one of the two? Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

And can you tell us what happens as a result of that? So when Jake came to me and told me that his mom believed that I had touched *** inappropriately, I was also informed that because of that allegation, George wasn't comfortable with my living in the house with *** and that I needed to go somewhere else.

Elizabeth described this heated conversation as the final showdown between her and the Wagner family, and the moment she knew she had to get away from them as soon as possible.

Jake said that he didn't believe I had done it, but that, you know, I need to explain myself because Angela believed that I had touched s*** inappropriately. She was acting very high and mighty, so to speak, and

I was very shocked and I remember Jake questioning me very sternly, like, "Did you do this?" And he laid it out very clearly to me that if I had done it, that the right thing to do would be to Lucille, the baseball bat from The Walking Dead, can't string me up in the barn, beat me to death with the baseball bat,

bulldoze the barn, bring it down, and hunt down and kill my family. And if he didn't do it, his mom would do it. If his mom didn't do it, his dad would do it. Or George would do it, or Billy, or, you know, he just kept saying any of them would be willing to do this because it would be the right thing to do.

Elizabeth says she went to her room, packed her bag, and called a friend for help. We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment.

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Elizabeth Armour was determined to flee Jake and the rest of the Wagners. Elizabeth began pushing back against the Wagners' rules, taking walks to the library and the local cemetery. She also kept a diary. State of the Exhibit M-M-1. If you could go ahead and look at that, and first of all, tell me if that is what is showing on this screen in front of you. One of my journal entries. Okay. Okay.

Hey, can you go ahead and read that for us, please? Dear Granddaddy, The people I live with are alright, I guess. They are constantly yelling and hitting and not one of them understands the concept or need for privacy. Even the most private of all human doings are open for discussion and comment in this family. It breaks all my nerves.

Also, nobody seems to understand basic ownership. And can you tell us, is that one of the journal entries that you had written that was discovered by other people living in the home? Yes. And were you speaking about them in that journal entry? Yes, I was speaking about George, Jake, Angela...

George Dick and Angela. Yeah. Okay. The prosecution then asked Elizabeth to read another entry about the Wagner family. Dear Granddaddy, I try so hard not to hate people. Proof of this is that out of my entire crazy big family, there are only two people I truly hate. But now, Granddaddy, there are three. Daniel, Isaac, and Angela.

I'm going to call her Ms. Angela because the name fits her. Anyways, Ms. Angela is horrible for all these reasons. One, she married unwisely and believes all marriages destined to end like hers. She has her fingers in my husband's pocketbook and makes exorbitant demands on his salary.

holding her own quote-unquote "gifts" and "help" over his head like a glove to emphasize her demands. Three, she has more say over my life right now than I do because she controls my husband through his child. Four, she verbally abuses and yells

insinuations at my husband, which he doesn't understand, but I do. Five. She dislikes and ridicules books. If you could go ahead and read to us what that says. Six. Because she is a manipulative liar, she is teaching our daughters to manipulate and lie. Seven.

My husband would listen to her far rather than to me because she has raised his daughter thus far. Eight. She believes me to be a replica of Tabby and treats me as such. She has insinuated several times that she expects me to poison her. Nine.

11.

The most horrible thing is I have her totally within my power. All I would have to do would be to tell people she did it, to get away from her abusive mother, and I would get her a lifetime sentence like that. Only thing is, much as I hate the woman's guts, it would not be true. Twelve.

She loves and encourages boys' obesity. Thirteen. She treats the children second, work first, and kids second. Continuing the same diary entry. Do you want me to read it? Yes. Fourteen. She keeps tabs on me, always watching and listening to see where I am. Fifteen.

and having to live in her house under her direct control and condescension. Plan to crush her. One, treat her only kindly and respectfully. Two, try to become her friend. She's like Wanda, so she really only respects working. I'm sorry, my handwriting is terrible. Working. Three, be nice because I'm bigger than her. Four,

Once I have her trust and friendship, slam the relationship door shut in her face. She likes gifts, food, animals, gardening, money, money, money, her kids, grandkids, working, cooking, favors, and hospitality. She was sensitive about her weight and appearance. She either was physically abused or else

Elizabeth tried to hide her diary from the Wagners, but they later found it and confronted her. I think it was Angela, Jake, and I feel like George was nearby. Possibly Rita as well. Bye.

The Wagner's demand for control over Elizabeth led to more threats against her life. You indicated that on your wedding night, Jake had indicated that you should cut off contact with your family.

Determined to leave, Elizabeth began making arrangements with her father to escape. On July 6th of 2018, less than four months after marrying Jake, Elizabeth fled the Wagner's grip. Can you tell us what happened on the day that you left? Well, I'm a girl.

We off in the parking lot. I walked into the Walmart, changed my clothes halfway through the Walmart at a changing station so that I wouldn't look the same and left out the back through the tire section because I was afraid they were following me and I was concerned and

I got into a rented car, took the SIM card out of my phone because I was concerned it was being tracked. My father was there in the car and we drove down a bunch of side roads and hid the car for a period of time and then

When we knew we weren't being followed, we drove to a restaurant where I switched vehicles. My friend picked me up and took me the rest of the way to Virginia. Elizabeth Armour fled the Wagners and initiated a divorce. George Wagner's defense team cross-examined her and questioned Elizabeth about her relationship with George and how serious a person he was. We didn't really know him at all in life since that period of time.

I met him at church. That once or twice you saw him at church? Yeah. And did you have long conversations with him at the church? No. So you met him at the church once or twice. You were introduced to him after Jake, after Jake had proposed to you. And then you helped back. That's kind of the extent of your contact with George when you were in Alaska. Is that fair? Fair enough. Okay. Okay.

Soon after escaping to Virginia, Elizabeth testified she was contacted by BCI agents and asked not only about Angela and Jake, but also George. During cross-examination, the defense questioned Armour about her interviews with BCI agents after she left the family, asking her whether she thought those threats were real. During that interview, they asked you some questions about George, right? During the interview in Virginia? In Virginia, yes. And I think you told them that...

As Elizabeth answers, from across the courtroom, George Wagner is seen smiling. He seems to enjoy being described this way. Yes. Yes. Right.

They were quite crude. Very crude, right? One of the things about George is that not only would he tell you these jokes, or see these jokes in your presence, I should say, not only would he say these jokes, but he said other things. And you came to an opinion that you thought he was kind of a low-life. Is that what you understand?

I would have to look up the definition of blow hard, but that sounds reasonable. Okay. He would say things he really didn't mean. Is that fair to say? Kind of blown off steam. I'm not sure if he meant them or not. I don't want to infer his meaning. Okay. And when you talk to the officers in Virginia, they ask you, can you tell us about Dewar? And I think you told him, he's not your kind of person.

He seems like a sweet kind of guy, but not the kind of person I would feel safe with. Because of his confessed interest in whores and non-discriminate choices in that area, that would be my reason for not feeling comfortable with him. That would be one of my reasons. Okay. Thank you.

Here's Jeff speaking with forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan. What do you make of George kind of smiling? He shows so little emotion and he sort of lights up when he's just talking about his sexist jokes and calling women whores and stuff. Is that, I mean, that must be, that's a pretty bad look. Yeah, it is, particularly when you're sitting there and, you know, you've got a panel of 12 people that are trying to decide what's going to happen with the rest of your life. You know, you're in a fight for your life.

We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment.

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George Wagner's defense attorney, John Parker, continued to press Elizabeth about whether or not she thought George was someone she took serious or someone who simply ran his mouth. Just a couple of questions about when BCI officers were interviewing you in Virginia, so that would have been July of 2018, after you left Ohio. They asked you about George in particular. They asked you...

When George specifically would talk about what he would do, what would he say that he was going to do to those people if he got his hands on them? I believe your response was he would say things like, "If I had my way, we wouldn't be hiding out like this." He would be storming Mike DeWine's office, punching him in the nose, you know, just for us. The agent asked you,

Is that what you perceive them to be? You didn't perceive them to be viable threats, you thought? And your answer was, I thought they're just bluffs, just like blowing on the street. Do you recall that? I do recall that in your day.

But Elizabeth later corrected the defense lawyer and insisted that she was as scared of George Wagner as any of the others. When you left Ohio back in 2018, you were escaping from Angela as much as anybody. Is that true? Angela, Jake, George, and Dalia is who I believed myself to be escaping from.

Here again, Jeff and Joseph Scott Morgan. And do you think, is she an effective witness to the prosecution? I think she is an excellent witness for the prosecution.

You know, and I'm a forensics guy, as you well know. But to have this kind of circumstantial witness that's up there where they can kind of paint a picture of what life was like on the inside. You can have all the blood evidence in the world that you want. You can have all the ballistic evidence that you want in the world. You can see bodies ripped to shreds. But when you have a person that survived it and is there to tell the tale, she's potentially a nail in the coffin. More on that next time.

For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kt underscore studios. The Python Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lidecker, Jeff Shane, Connor Powell, Andrew Arnau, Gabriel Castillo, and me, Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design by Jeff Twa. Music by Jared Aston.

The Piketon Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Please welcome our Pike County Dogwood Festival Queen. Lord, I just thank you for bringing us all together as a community. I'm a boy. I take my present home, Dad. There's blood all over the house. Who could have killed eight family members in one night?

I lost my best friend and I will never be the same because of that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA, no witnesses. The killer left those children laying in their mother's blood. The word that comes to mind is overkill. Who was the mastermind? I'm telling you, if they frame us, I'm not sitting in prison. One thing I learned...

The smaller the town, the bigger the secrets. Be sure to watch our upcoming documentary, The Pike County Murders, A Family Massacre, premiering on NBC Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend, November 24th and November 25th. Please check your local listings, and our hearts are with the Rodens and the Gilley families.

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For 25 years, Brightview Senior Living Associates have been committed to creating a vibrant culture and delivering exceptional services, making Brightview a great place to work and live. If you're looking for a rewarding opportunity to serve your local community and grow, we want you to join our team. Brightview Senior Living is growing and actively seeking vibrant associates to join our community teams, including directors, healthcare, activities, hospitality, and dining. Apply today at careers.brightviewseniorliving.com. Equal employment opportunities.

Text BVJOBS to 97211 to apply.

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