I Choose...The Power of Music with Samuel T. Herring
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Hi, this is Jenny Garth from the I Choose Me podcast. If you're managing a challenging mental condition, weekly therapy can sometimes feel like it's not enough. You may be looking for a way to spend more focus time on you. That's where Amend Mental Health Treatment Center comes in. I recently took a tour at Amend in beautiful Malibu, California, and the facility is so gorgeous and serene.

The dedicated team of doctors and therapists with deep clinical expertise were amazing. Designed to give you the time and space you need to have that breakthrough. They have two unique locations in Malibu that surround you in natural beauty and pure calm. Find out more at amendtreatment.com slash start. You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hey everyone, welcome to the I Choose Me podcast.

This podcast is all about the choices we make and where they lead us. My guest today is a musician, a rapper, and a lead singer of the band Future Islands that I am a big fan of.

And you might also know him from the Apple TV Plus show, The Changeling, where he made his acting debut last year. Please welcome Samuel T. Herring to the I Choose Me podcast. We're going to jump in, but I just want to say thank you, thank you for coming on. Yeah, thank you so much. I'm very excited that you said yes. I think your team is the first person to find my secret email. Woo! Woo!

I was like, it does work. That's so cool. Well, they're good. So that makes sense. Yeah, I was like, I got a request. But we were really excited to hear that you came to the show. It's just so cool. I'm going to give my husband credit because we both love music, but he has introduced me to some of the best bands around. And yours is right at the top of that list.

We just caught you guys in LA at the Shrine. And Dave had had seeing future islands on our calendar since like May, right? And the thing was, I've been traveling a lot for work. I got home. I was home for one day. I had a photo shoot all day long. And I thought, there's no way I'm going to be up to going to the show. And I didn't want to disappoint him because like I said, he was really looking forward to it. But...

We finished early that day and I literally like made myself get excited to go to the show because I was really excited, but I was also so, so tired. No offense. So we went and something really good happened to me that night. Your music just reminded me to dance, you know, and I, I, it just genuinely made me so happy that it carried on for days. That feeling of happiness that I got from seeing you play live. Yeah.

You guys are just incredible live. Well, that's awesome. I'm glad that the whole point of the show is to kind of crack people a bit. Break open something that's not there. And I mean, that's...

You know, my movement is to make other people move, of course, you know, that it's a safe space. If I can do it, you can do it, that kind of thing. You know, it's a hook. But yeah, that's just a high compliment. And it's the goal. We were like up in the back and everybody wanted to sit down. I was not having that. And you were like, everybody get up. And I'm so glad that you said that because...

these old fuddy-duddies behind me wanted to like sit and watch you perform. No, no, thank you. And you know, that happens sometimes, especially when you move into theaters and stuff. But, but man, when I go to a show, I want to sit down. I'm always looking for the green room when I go to a show. I'm like, where's the MSI? It's not your show, dude. You don't get to go back there. Through the Roses, that has been one of our songs. You know, for me, just like,

That's an intense one. Yep. It's an upbeat ode to how harsh relationships can be. But for me, it just reminds me that we're stronger together somehow. And Little Dreamer is the song that I am absolutely obsessed with right now. What does it mean? I mean, I can interpret it and maybe...

Maybe you're talking about your cat. I don't know. But here's what I hear when I listen to it. I hear you talking to yourself about to your little dreamer inside. And that something so comforting to me about it. Like there's so much heartache, but it's hopeful somehow. And then there's the fucking birds. There's birds in that song. Like where did the birds come from? That's actually a good question. At some point or another, I knew...

It was probably, I'm going to say it was probably William, a field recording that he made. And I feel like it was from Wendell, his hometown. It's a tiny little town outside of Raleigh, North Carolina. I can't, I'm not actually sure though, you know, in our, our,

not our most recent record, but the one before that, we also, the record opens the song Glada, which is, it's the Swedish word for happy, but it's also a bird. It's a kite, you know, with the, the big V tails, these beautiful birds that swoop over. And it's like, they're through England and Southern Sweden. And, uh, the,

the red kite, but that also opens with these sounds of geese. And I don't know, it's something calming when you have, we used to do, we used to play a lot more with field recordings. It just reminds you of a place, it puts, it creates a setting, you know, and sometimes I think about, you know, of course you saw the show, so there's a theatrical element to it, there's a theater to it. But, you know, and when I

Usually when I write a song, the first line is always the hardest. And it's about-- those first lines are about creating the setting, just like you would a play or something. So I think when you have

have the ability to cheat and put bird sound in um the sound of the sounds of uh you know wind through reeds um there's an album we have on the water which is has the clanking of uh like the sails you know on ships that are docked at night yeah and I mean I don't know what what the average person hears when they hear that but when I hear it it takes me right back to that place so

Yeah, there's something that like forces my brain when I hear that to like stay really focused on what I'm listening to. I don't know what it is, but it keeps me so interested. What a Little Dreamer is especially that little tweet. There's something about it. It's like we caught a really perfect moment from a bird. Uh-huh. What is that? Was I even close with my interpretation? It's not about my cat. Okay, good. But no, I mean, well, that song –

That song, in a lot of ways, to me, feels like it says a lot about the life of this band. Future Islands was...

is 18 and a half years old now. And we had a band before that, you know, we had me, William and Garrett, the way in the bassist, Garrett, the keyboardist. Of course, we have Mike, the drummer don't want to leave Mike out. But in the beginning, the three of us had a band called art Lord with a couple other friends, art Lord in the self portraits. And that was like our college band was performance art piece and music was the was the medium. And then, you know, when Future Islands began in 06. So we did that for two and a half years.

didn't have a band for about six months and then started Future Islands in '06.

I was going through so much in my life at that time. I had I was addicted to drugs. I had a problem with cocaine for like two and a half years. So only like four, four. And I know this show is about being open and vulnerable and you got the right guy because I tell it all. Yeah, but it the band kind of began when I was kind of losing my mind. I was at my bottom, but it took another four months and then I was able to leave town.

and get clean and through my parents' help. But then I left and I was living out of my van doing odd job construction around North Carolina for, I'm from North Carolina originally, for a few months.

And I started talking to this girl down in Florida. And eventually I just went down there. I was spending time with her. And then I was like, come back with me to North Carolina. But I didn't have a place to go. I didn't have a house. I just slept on friends' couches around North Carolina. So she did that with me for a few months. And then we settled in a place in Asheville, North Carolina. And so that song is about...

that room that we stayed in, you know, it was like eight roommates, one bathroom, an old punk house. It was like basically a squat house. Like we split, like we split 160 bucks a month rent. She worked at a little clothing shop and I worked at Domino's pizza delivering pizzas. And, uh, and we just like made it work, you know? And, and so that song, you know, she was really at that whole time. I was really trying to

i'd lost myself you know within within my drug problems i i i didn't fracture my relationships with my friends and and my bandmates but i just wasn't there i was gone and then so that song has traveled for

17 years through my life, through her being there and then her being gone, you know, at the very beginning of us splitting and then, like, the years of noncommunication and then, like, re-communicating and then being like, I don't want to sing this song anymore, like, if it hurts her or if it hurts me, to really accepting in the last few years it's been about

Like, that meaning has changed, but it's been about, like, accepting your past and accepting love that isn't there anymore because it was still love, you know? And that's really what it means to me now is, like,

I can't stop myself from the good memories, even if I'm in a new place, if I'm in another good relationship, there was still a time, you know, and all the bad stuff that followed doesn't take away that time and that sense of peace and calm that I felt in that moment and how important that was to really the beginning of my next life, you know, because that

The beginning of Future Islands was also the end of my old life. And in writing that song and that first, you know, that was the first Future Islands album was really kind of me discovering myself again. There's another song on that album, Wave Like Home, called Old Friend, which is literally about me looking in the mirror and like recognizing myself again after so many years of being, yeah, being lost of myself. So the old friend is me, you know, not me.

Not another person. I'm finding myself again. So really, yeah, that song is very, it has so much meaning, but it's so crazy that you can encapsulate that in those moments. And then the original person or the original thought or the original feeling you're so far away from, but it can still take you there. It can transport you there. And then it can be something that people get their own feeling from.

Because you want that too. I want people to, whatever good you can get out of our music or our songs, like, and put it on your own life. Like, that's so, so positive. It's art. You know, it's supposed to move with people and move through people.

Hi, this is Jenny Garth from the I Choose Me podcast. If you're managing a challenging mental condition, weekly therapy can sometimes feel like it's not enough. You may be looking for a way to spend more focus time on you. That's where Amend Mental Health Treatment Center comes in. I recently took a tour at Amend in beautiful Malibu, California, and the facility is so gorgeous and serene.

The dedicated team of doctors and therapists with deep clinical expertise were amazing. Designed to give you the time and space you need to have that breakthrough. They have two unique locations in Malibu that surround you in natural beauty and pure calm. Find out more at amendtreatment.com slash start. You said in your band, Future Islands started just you and your buddies in 2006.

But I want to just rewind a little bit and I want to sort of set the stage for our listeners. You're from North Carolina, as you mentioned. Tell me a little bit about your childhood. Do you remember the first time that you sang? And I wanted to know who was encouraging you to follow your dreams. Who was it that was standing behind you?

You know, I grew up in a really, I grew up in a small town, eastern North Carolina. I was just like a two minute walk to the shore. The sound, you know, the water trap between us and the barrier island that was out to the ocean. I had my grandma right around the corner. It was a pretty, a pretty simple experience.

i would say a pretty simple normal childhood but that didn't really stop me from feeling weird and out of place but you know my mom loved to sing so she played piano we would stand around her while she played piano with sheet music and sing songs together me my brother and her i have an older brother um it's just the two of us and so my brother really was he was more of the

the big-- he was more of a ham, I would say, than me even. And he's still such an amazing singer, such an amazing performer, and really kind of my first idea of what a front person was, because I saw his band play when I was 12. And I would sing at a young age, seven, eight, nine, in school for--

What do you call them? Like assemblies and then some drama stuff. But and I always, you know, it was like I had a really good voice. Back then I had this little angelic like kids voice. You know, some children just have hasn't been. Yeah. No, no cigarettes. But but I was like, I could sing, but that wasn't really.

something I was trying to do. And then it was music hit me with hip hop. And so when I was 13, I fell in love with, with rap music. And then I was like, I want to know all about this. I want to know all about the history of this. So I just started studying like, and my brother helped me like gather stuff off the internet. You know, we would print up like, and this is, this is like the internet in 1996 and seven, you know? Yeah. There was dial up.

Yeah, very slow. There's not, you know, there's like, it's just text, you know, every website is just text. And he would print out these books of like how to break dance and how to like graph, right. And the proper like spray tips you need to do graffiti and, and you know, learning about just the music and the history of like how it came to be. I was just fascinated. And a lot of it was that,

It was so foreign to me. And it also, I liked that it was like I had secret knowledge, you know? And I was like, I want to write. And at the same time, I was discovering poetry, Carl Sandburg and Theodore Retka at like 12 and 13. And I went through like my first...

like my first crush and then that also that just made you know the the poetry run that made the the raps run so i wanted to be a rapper um and that's what when i went to college that's what was my goal um and then i met william and then we started a band and that's kind of like that's like history you know that's just the way it goes just happened

But yeah, but I was, yeah, there was always a safe space. Like my parents were very much, they both grew up in really hardworking families and worked really hard and were like the first to go to college in their families. And because of that, they raised their sons to be artists, which they regretted later. And I also regret sometimes too, because like my work ethic is bad outside of

my art, you know, I feel I work really hard at what I do. Yeah. You seem like a really hard worker to me. Well, and that's me. It's me being hard on myself. I mean, I don't know how many partners I've had who have told me that, like, you know, you're allowed to rest. I'm learning now. I'm learning now. Um,

But it is, you know, I gained that workaholic nature from my parents and I would say even more so my father. And I was angry at him as a kid that he worked so hard. And now I find myself as the same person.

in a similar position where I can't be happy unless I've created something. And I'm a little away from that. Like, I think I've grown a lot in the last couple of years because that's something that was said, told to me and then I recognized it. And then I was like, I need to correct this and I need to give myself some grace to really relax at times, you know, because I get off a tour and I'm beat, but

My first thing is, like, I got off this tour and I just sat down and I started writing a song. And it made me happy, you know? It made me happy because I could move from that. The crowd, whether, you know, the stage work and the work of being on the road is very different than the creative process of creating a song. That's when you get to, like...

pull something new and find who you are in that moment as opposed to working through old emotions or or doing a performance you know because there are moments on stage like what you saw is there are

moments of transcendence where I'm discovering new things and I'm connected with the audience. And then there are times where I'm like, well, I'm going to do this high kick because it's going to look cool. And it's for the audience, you know, and that's not that's to that's to once again hook people so that then you can go back into those spaces. But there's the performance aspect, which is work. And then there's the and then if you're lucky, you are able to go into the body and find something new.

You mentioned, I think it was at your concert, Ashley, that when you finish an album, it's this huge expression and a release of emotions around the things that you are going through, working through in your real life at that time. And then once the album finally comes out, it's like,

You know, when you start touring with that music, it might be kind of, you might be kind of past those emotions or that, you know, onto that next hurdle in your life, but you're having to relive it all over again, night after night playing it. What's that like? I mean, does that, do you feel like that holds you back or does it sort of propel you forward? I mean, it probably does a bit of both.

I want to say that performing the song helps to create some closures within the self. It doesn't create closure with a person, but it creates closure and acceptance with the self. It also, a thing I found is it makes you, you know, when you say something you don't want to say, especially if it's damning to yourself and you put it on record, you are saying, I'm living with this and I want everybody to know that.

that I'm, you know, I can't go and tell people that they need to be honest with their emotions and themselves and then me hide myself. You know what I mean? And so I push into those moments so that when I get on stage and I sing it out to people, then I see how it bounces back. And then I become accountable, not just to myself, but to all of these people. And then it just, I found that it helps me to,

to accept things and just find, you know, it's also about creating a space of, you know, I see the stage as power, you know, the microphone is power and you have, you can use it or lose it. I don't know that I shouldn't have rhymed that. And so I think it is like, if you can be vulnerable from a point of, from a place of power, then you can, you can change, you can create change.

Because if I can get up there and be and cry for you and then smile it off and be like, I'm OK and we're OK together, then you you can break into people's and what their expectation of what people are supposed to be, what people are supposed to do.

I feel like you're talking about like it's sort of like a reciprocal release and connection with your audience that it's mutually beneficial for you and for the people listening or watching.

Yeah, yeah. But I think I've, did I even answer your question? Sorry, I'm real tangential. I like it. Yeah, that's okay. That's okay. But you know, I was just, because I think like, you know, you wrote that song a while ago and you're still playing it live night after night, especially when you're touring. Yeah. You know, cause I, I know you have to have grown and changed in the interim of, you know, between writing it and performing it. Like there's a lot that happens to a person.

And you're just kind of like a different person at that point, but you have to go back to that, those feelings and to that moment to get that, conjure up that true emotion to deliver that, you know? Yeah. And it can be hard to like, you know, my, my partner now, you know, I've been like, is it okay? Cause, cause it's, and I've talked to, you know, old partners about like,

Is it strange to have to hear these kinds of songs that are about past relationships? But, you know, they also they come, you know, they understand, like, it's just your art because I am like it's art in the end. At first, it's really heavy emotion. And then the stories get encapsulated like it is. It is something. And I don't know if that's good or bad, but it is like the singing of the songs is.

and creating that acceptance, it also puts calluses on them. You know, it puts calluses on those emotions and those things and it encapsulates them in those moments. And maybe in some ways that's negative because it, it changes the, it can change the memory. You know, if you,

If you just remember that this thing in this way. And that's why I think why it's important to be reflective and see how things move. I think you said in some interview that after one of your breakups, you started therapy. Yeah. How old were you when you started therapy? I would have been...

I was 37. Yes, it was the end of the end of 21. And I mean, to be fair, like I had been like that, that relationship had been really had had been really positive in my life. And, you know, it diminished through the pandemic in that space because my my partner was overseas. My my ex was overseas.

And we just didn't, we weren't able to get to one another for a really long time. And it never popped back. Like when the pandemic lifted, it was, the feelings were gone. And she, or her feelings were gone and she let me go. So, and then you just have to deal with it. But because of that relationship and the positivity of it and the love that I felt through it and knew was real, it wasn't like,

Does, you know, was it not real? It wasn't one of those. It was like, no, no, no. You guys had a real thing. And then sometimes this stuff just happens and there are things you can't control and people and people change. And and, you know, feelings are feelings are fluid and you can't really you have to look after yourselves and be good to yourself and move forward as best you can. But it was in coming home. I was like, I need to find a therapist immediately before I break down, before I

you know, relapse into drugs or drinking too heavily. I drink, but, you know, just going down a bad path, like, like drugs, sex, just like binge eating, you know, any of these things. And I was able to find somebody, but, but even in that time, I was very, I was very calm in it. And I think it's because that, that even though I was hurting from losing the relationship, the relationship also had had a positive effect on me because

you know i feel like the first relationship where i really had a true mutual love in my life um so uh so i was able to grow in that you know and i was older of course you know was uh in my i was in my 30s already right i wasn't just some

No, but it takes that pain sometimes to get to that growth. And there's no way of getting around it. You just got to go through it. I mean, doing the work when, you know, when we talk about going to therapy and talk about the work that we have to do, our personal inner work, whatever, it's a lot of work.

It's scary and keeps people from seeking therapy, I think. And I think a lot of people are just afraid to do the work. I mean, if you were to say to someone listening right now who maybe hasn't tried therapy, would you encourage another person to do therapy? Oh, definitely. I mean, I think the world could use it. The world. I think even if just to have...

I really think of it as a reflecting point. And, you know, different therapists are different in the ways that they

They do what they do and you can find people that specialize. Sometimes you just have a bad fit and that can be really off-putting. You know, I luckily, I'm with the person that I started with and we have a really good rapport. And really like the biggest thing that he does for me is just remind me of what I've said in the past. So I'll tell him like, you know, I'll tell him this is what's going on and this is how I feel. And he's like, well, you said something completely different through three months ago. Or, you know, I think this is what I need. And it's like, well, you said this. Are you, are you?

feeling or have you changed your mind or are you are you just feeling anxious you know are you you know what what's happening to make you feel this way so he's like holding up a mirror for you yeah so that for me that's what therapy is is uh that's been beneficial is really holding up a mirror to me so that I can sit in my feelings again um which is the thing that he's since the beginning he's like you have to figure out how to sit in your emotion instead of

Instead of reacting really rash, irrationally or rashly is the word I was trying to use, like, you know, very quickly, hastily to just because I'm I'm an emotional person. And so I just like act. And that can lead to. Yeah, that can that can lead to fractures in relationships and friendships if you don't.

take a breath you know like like don't write the email back today or write it and put it in the draft i've done that a lot in the last few years and that's been really good practice uh and then i'm like i'm glad i didn't say that because because i am a kind of like you've been through it like you've talked a lot about you know your life experiences not only through your music but

you know, in interviews and stuff. And you've talked about your drug addiction and about your challenges with mental health and how you fought, you know, your way from being a teen with suicidal ideations. And you had, you filled voids with substances. And like you said, eating all the things, sex, eating, doing everything you could to stuff things down and not deal with them. But I know you've been in some really dark places, but from what I gather through interviews,

Not just your music, but from the research that I've done on you, like a creeper. I feel like you're really very intelligent, like an emotionally intelligent man, which is, that's what the work is about. Yes. And I thank you for saying that. It's something that I...

It's one of those weird things where I felt like that since I was a kid. So my father is a divorce attorney and my mother runs the office. So it's just the two of them. And they're so interesting because, you know, they to this day, they still they wake up together. They go to work together. They work together. They come home together. And they're still just like.

pinching each other's asses and they're just real cute they're just cute funny people and and and so i come from this really loving relationship um but also i was in this in this office for

so many years of my my life up until probably i was like 14 or 13 or 14 i probably stopped going to the office after school and i would hear so much emotion coming through those walls i would hear people crying i would hear people yelling i'd hear you know i'd hear laughter

You know, and this, I couldn't make out what was being said. It was just that, you know, like Charlie Brown, Charlie Brown mom voice over the phone. But I could feel the emotion. And I don't know, sorry parents, but I don't think it was good for me. You know, I think it was actually, I think it was maybe an overexposure for both me and my brother. But I think it made me

extremely empathetic from a young age and like, like really trying to, to, to understand people or to just try to, I don't know, just like, I do give my dad credit. My dad's the kind of guy who would just like, I would walk to him to the post office every day to drop off mail and pick up mail. And it was just a little like quarter mile walk.

And every day he would, it was just like the one time in the daytime I could hang out with my dad. So I would like always go on the walk, but it would end up just like him at the post office talking to some person for 30 minutes,

And then we would leave and every time I'd be like, who was that? And he's like, I have no idea. And I was just like, what is happening? Because I'm also like, I want to hang out with my dad. He's hanging out with a stranger. But that thing also taught me about the way you treat everybody and giving everyone this like respect. And like I said, you know, small town vibe. And my dad really taught me how to how to, you know,

You talk to the judge the same way you talk to the janitor type thing. He literally has said that to me, you know. There are lessons in that office that I learned. It was also like learning to like take care of myself and play with myself, make my own games, you know. You know, playing in the woods, you know. So much of those, the songs of Future Islands are really about

those places around that office. There's something though about that time, whether you were with your brother in the office or you were out exploring the woods or whatever, that solitude and that like presence, just being with yourself, but knowing that you're just this big and there's so much around you, you know, that it really makes you think on a deeper level, I think. And

I can definitely feel that from the music that you guys make. And that's irreplaceable. Like, you can't learn that. You can't, you know, that's that amazing exposure you had as a young person. Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's interesting, you know, so much of me and Garrett's friendship, you know, I have to...

The words don't have... The music is the bed that allows me to dream. You know what I mean? And so the guys are creating this music that is very emotional. It's not like I'm just...

implanting an emotion. It's like the things that some of the sounds that Garrett uses, the way when like bows or like gets into these deep sounds like that remind me of the sea, you know, they take me to a place that allows me to reflect, but but takes takes me to to a place to reflect. But me and Gary, you know, I

I know that we were really, I think a lot of the reason that we became friends was because we both didn't feel that the world made sense. And we felt like kind of isolated and then we kind of found each other. And so I, but we also both have that, the darkness of spirit, which we are fighting.

And Garrett's done a better job in his life. And he's, you know, he has a beautiful family and, and it just makes me so, so happy. But, but I, I, we still talk about it, you know, and understanding like where our friendship came from and that those things don't go away. You know, we deal, we learn to deal and understand our emotions and those feelings. And then when finding a friend, you know,

or even communicating with a stranger sometimes, then we break out of isolation to have that place. But for me, when Garrett in particular writes a sad song, or I shouldn't say a sad song, but a song that is imbued with a deep emotion, I understand it in a different way. There's so much to be said for the friendship of the three of us and now the four of us that really, that is the spirit of the music.

Hi, this is Jenny Garth from the I Choose Me podcast. If you're managing a challenging mental condition, weekly therapy can sometimes feel like it's not enough. You may be looking for a way to spend more focus time on you. That's where Amend Mental Health Treatment Center comes in. I recently took a tour at Amend in beautiful Malibu, California, and the facility is so gorgeous and serene.

The dedicated team of doctors and therapists with deep clinical expertise were amazing. Designed to give you the time and space you need to have that breakthrough. They have two unique locations in Malibu that surround you in natural beauty and pure calm. Find out more at amendtreatment.com slash start. Can we talk about life on the road for a second? Yeah. Yeah.

Does it suck as bad as I imagine it to suck? Because for me, like when I go away to work, I can really easily lose my grasp with where I've come from or the life that I've just left for those weeks, months, whatever it is. How do you stay grounded when you're on the road and what do you do to take care of yourself? I mean, it's...

Yeah, the road is not for everyone. And it gets less appealing the older you get. The road was great when I was 26. And I was free and I didn't have to call home or, you know, call someone at home. And I didn't have to miss somebody. When you're missing somebody, it makes it hard. And if you have somebody who doesn't understand, it makes it hard.

You know, my partner now is in the entertainment industry. And so they give me a lot of grace and they understand because they also have to go and do work. But that but they are also a person at the beginning of our relationship was like, I feel you disassociating from me and I need you to communicate more.

And luckily, well, I'm proud of myself, but within that time of hearing that and then like fighting against it a bit and to then recognizing and then working through it and then going on tour again to prove myself. Because you can't prove yourself, say, at the end of a tour. You're like, well, now I can't prove that I'm not disassociating because tour is over.

So then you come home, you reset and you're like, I'm going to do better. And then, you know, since then, you know, and she said to me many times, you know, I see that you've changed that behavior and that work and you've made me feel secure. You know, you make me feel secure now. And it's really just I think in those things, I mean, I would rather have I shouldn't say I shouldn't say I would rather have. It's hard to say what I was going to say was I like having someone to talk to, right?

And I don't want to be being on the being on the road single is easy because you don't have to call home, but it's also really lonely. And, you know, maybe you do. In the old days, you might get some kisses one night, but you just feel like.

You just leave again. You just leave your whole life. Your whole life is gone, you know, at times. And it's really easy to get lost. So I feel so much more comforted and comfortable when I have someone to talk to about what I'm doing or I get a reflection of or I get, you know, to find out what's happening at home. It makes me feel like I'm not completely gone from home. So yeah.

You know, it helps to have a partner who understands and is willing to work through those issues with you, which I'm lucky to have. But yeah, you know, you have to find routines. That's what's helped me recently. You know, my routine is basically wake up at 10 a.m., you know,

take a shower, shave if I got to, take a walk, coffee, walk, and then back to venue, reconvene, set up, do the soundcheck.

And then you have, then I'll nap. I'll have dinner and then I'll nap from like five to six, wake up, get dressed, start stretching, do the show. I like this. You got to stretch my, I'm, my body's, I'm doing good now, but I have a lot of body pains from what I do. So you saw, I had to go take a nap after I watched you do it. Stretching, do the show.

come off stage, you know, have a couple drinks, have some laughs, and then go to sleep sometime around like one or two on the bus and then repeat. Yeah, I mean, just staying in a relationship under those kind of circumstances while you're having your personal growth and your partner's having their personal growth, it can be extraordinarily difficult to stay connected. I understand what you're saying about that it

feels better to do that with somebody that's on the same page as you, because you're both committed to taking care of one another, even though you're apart. Yes. And you understand the distance, like understanding the distance, understanding the work,

Those things really help. Last year, I think it was last year, I started watching The Changeling because I wanted to check out your big acting debut. Did you just recently watch that? Yeah, no, you did this last year. It was for Apple TV, right? The Changeling. And so, yeah, I just started. I'm on episode two. I haven't gotten to your character yet. But how did that opportunity come? I mean, that's like.

The ultimate I choose me moment is decide to do something completely different and scary and jump into a completely different world like that.

Well, it came about because of a Future Island show. And I mean, I'll tell the whole story. So the writer of the show came to see us at the end of 2021. She had written the show. It was sold, but they were on the back half of casting the main roles. So they had most of the main roles, but there was one role, my role, that was not yet cast.

Kelly came out of the show. Kelly Marcel was the writer of the show and also the showrunner. And then she, you know, we're playing and she's just like mesmerized at the show. Like about halfway through the show, I start, you know, like ripping in my face and going into these growls more. And she turns to her friend and is like, is he the guy? Is he like, could he play William Wheeler? And her friend, uh,

who I think she had read the book but had read the scripts, was like, "I think he could do it." So yeah, the show was back at the beginning of October, and now we're to February. I get a message request on Instagram from Kelly.

And she's like, hi, I'm Kelly. I've you know, these are my my things that I've done in the past. This is who I am. And I'm writing the show. And I've been trying to contact you through your manager and I'm not hearing anything. Are you interested in acting? And I'm just like, oh, this is it's real. So we talked through Instagram. I kept repeating, like, you know, I'm not an actor. Right. And she's like, I think you can do it.

and then on thursday we had our first zoom and i was like i think maybe i can do it you know and and she was like you she was really on my side she was like i really want you in this and i think if we if we can make good tapes i can make a good i can i can pitch it and we can do it once kelly had

Once she had the director and the casting director, then they went to the studio. But I had to make my own... I had to go in and read with the casting director, who was really great. But I'm not nervous. Like, I'm not a nervous person, but that... I was so nervous that first reading. I was...

I was like, this is not good. This is something you've never done before. Of course you were nervous. Yeah, but it was raw. It was in there, but it was raw. So I read for them. They were like, we're going to get behind this. They pitched me, but they were like, you've got to come back in a week and do it again on camera.

and they're but they were also like but you need to you also need to meet with an acting coach like we we see you have the raw but you should meet with somebody so they set uh kelly set me up with this guy larry moss do you know larry moss i love that guy yeah he's i still call him uncle larry yeah we had like we did six uh six sessions they're just like one hour sessions over zoom and it completely changed

my whole, it just changed everything in my body. Like he released all my fear and stress in dealing with like this thing. And it was really simple. Like I still, to this day, I still want to talk to him again and be like,

Did you mean what you said or did you just like blow the perfect amount of smoke up my ass? Probably. That it went to my head. Probably that. Because the first thing he said to me was like, look, I've, you know, the first session, first thing, I was like, I've been watching videos of performances and I've watched a ton of interviews of yours and you're an actor. You just like don't, you don't trust that you are. So we just have to get you to trust.

What you're doing. If your head itches, scratch it. You know, if there's something... Do you have the bug now? I would like to act again, but I never... That's why I told you, like, you guys were the first ones to find my secret email that I had to set up. Like, the show came out. I got really great reviews for my performance from some big publications. And then... But nothing ever happened. I was like, oh, well. No, no. I think every... You know, everything happens for a reason. Everything...

no matter how awful it feels in the moment, it all leads to the next opportunity. Even if it's scary or if it doesn't look like an opportunity or if you don't think it's going to go anywhere, it all eventually works itself out in your best interest. And that's the beautiful thing about life. And I love that you found a new passion for another art form. And, you know, you sound like you feel like you're good at it and I can't wait to watch it. So I'll get you back when you're done.

No, I mean, I'm really excited for you. I think, you know, the sky's the limit for what you can do and where you can push yourself. Yeah, it was a really cool... It was something I needed in that moment to... Yeah. To a new challenge and something to make me feel positive about myself. But just to learn something new, it was really cool. It was also really trying. It's a hard job. I mean, I give you props because...

There's actually, there's similarities in the job, which is the, is the hurry up and wait. But, but my, you know, it was, it was pretty chill, but in the beginning it was really frustrating. I had to find, I had to find peace in it. And I drove Kelly crazy sometimes with that too. Well, I'm glad that you, you know, I'm glad that it worked out for you and I'm excited for your future, whatever happens with it. Before I let you go, I want, I ask everybody this, um,

Samuel Herring, what was your last I choose me moment? I ate an extra large pepperoni pizza about three days ago. I ate the whole thing probably in about 10 minutes. It was really good. Whoa. Extra large in 10 minutes. Okay. I can do it. How'd you feel? I felt the warm rush of blood coursing through my body. I was just like, I mean, you know...

usually give me like answers that are a little different than that. But I'm going to say, I really like this choice. The large extra large pizza. It's like, it's okay. You don't have to, you don't have to diet today. You don't have to exercise. You get to relax. Yep. Cause I don't get to eat pizza on the road. Cause it destroys my voice. It gums me up and gives me reflux. It burns my throat. So like when I get home,

It's kind of a thing. And I waited. I was like, you know what? Maybe not this time. Maybe I'm going to have better habits when I get home. And then a couple of days went by and I was like, I'm going to get that pizza now. It's all in moderation. And you know what? If it feels good, do it. But it's all in moderation. But I love that it sounds like you are more in touch with how to take care of yourself and just in those dark times. Yeah.

You get stronger and stronger with how to take care of you, you know? And I think I'm just happy to see you on that journey and on that right path because you're so, so talented. Thank you so much. I'm so excited about writing again. Yeah. That's the next thing. We'll be listening. Yeah. Everybody, you've got to check out Future Islands. Take it from me. Thank you, Jenny. I really appreciate it.

Samuel is so interesting. I have been such a huge fan of his music. So that was so great to get to know him on a more personal level. And I hope if you didn't know about his band, Future Islands, before this, you will go check them out now. The music is transformational. As we continue to choose ourselves each week, I want to challenge you this week to consider something. Should you be getting expert help or guidance?

We talked about this with Samuel, his choice to get into therapy and the world of difference that it has made for him.

And therapy isn't just for people that have experienced major trauma. Maybe you're struggling with your work-life balance, or maybe you want to learn to set better boundaries. I don't know. Give it some thought this week. And I just want to encourage you to think about it, to seek expert help if you are feeling unsettled in any area of your life. This is your gentle reminder to choose you.

Thanks for listening to I Choose Me. You can check out all our social links in our show notes, rate and review and give us some messages of love. Use the hashtag I Choose Me. I will be here next week. I hope you choose to be here too.