Party of One
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Welcome back to I Do Part Two. I'm one of your celebrity mentors here on the pod, Cheryl Burke. Today, I wanted to talk about sex and intimacy from a single woman's perspective. You guys know I've been really open about my celibacy journey, so I want to talk about that and also about this new trend we're hearing a lot about, sleeping in separate rooms. So today, we're joined by relationship coach, Dr. Shanna Bromley, to talk all about it. How are you, Dr. Shanna?

How are you doing? I'm good. I've done a little bit of research on you and let's just get right into it and talk about navigating intimacy. You know, I'm single. I have been very open with my journey and how I've been celibate and I've been choosing obviously to be celibate for the past, I would say three years I'm divorced and I'm just choosing to date myself and it's been lovely. I'm curious what brought you to that decision?

Dating myself? Yeah, dating yourself, being celibate. I admire the commitment. I'm always curious when people make that commitment to themselves. It is something I've never done before. First of all, I was a serial dater. I never was single, not even for a day. It was always back-to-back relationships since I was 13, and I'm 40 now. So it has been something that...

I am also very much in therapy and I have been for most of my life and I will continue to be till the day I die. But I, this is part of my work and being sober now for six years, you know, this is something that I now owe to myself and yeah, there's no rush for me to start dating again. And for you being celibate, is it about not having sex again?

and sexuality with partners or is it also part of you shutting down your own sexual energy? - Oh, no, no, I'm very sexual with myself. - Okay, okay. - Yeah, but no, I'm not dating. So therefore there is, that is not an option for me at the moment, which is okay 'cause I also fall in love quickly if I do become intimate with you, but this is what I'm currently working on, right? So, I mean, look, it all traces back to the way I was raised, to the trauma I dealt with as a little girl.

My definition of love is not necessarily something that I want to continue to live by because I want to change the pattern in my brain. So in order for that to happen, I really have to slowly rewire. You know, there's no time limit. There's no ticking time bomb, though there is for our lives. But like one day at a time, like my sobriety. And yeah, I just don't have that.

like I used to, I think I felt like I needed, that person was going to complete me, but we all know that that doesn't happen through outside sources, right? That's all from within. And that's what I'm currently working on at this moment.

All in all, I've been very open with just my story, especially on this podcast. What do you believe is important when it comes to whether it's newly being broken up as far as intimacy goes, whether that's with yourself or with other partners? Is it important to continue the intimacy? Is it okay to take breaks? Is it okay to just be celibate like me?

I think absolutely it's okay to do whatever you feel called to do. I don't think celibacy, it's, I mean, the connections, your sexual connection should be the connection you have with yourself. I don't think that that should ever go away. I think that's something that we should always invest our time into. Sensuality is absolutely something that every woman and every man that they should keep for themselves, whether they're in a partnership or not. Right. And yeah,

when it comes to the older generation, right? Cause I think that there is this whole thing when, uh,

giving pleasure to yourself, for example, right? It's like a, I think it is generational. I don't know. Maybe it's not, maybe it's just where I was raised, who knows. But I believe that there is this weird, like, how dare you, you can't, you can't, uh, please yourself and you have to stay in a marriage or, you know, all of these societal expectations. Um, how, how does one, um,

accept themselves if they want to do something that may not be what they think is right. I think you are spot on. I think society, whether it's church, whether it's our educational systems, whether it's just traditional family values and systems have

programmed us to feel that sex for pleasure, self-pleasure, that it's dirty and the big stigma behind it. And I think especially so for women, that you're supposed to be the good girl, you're supposed to be appropriate. And so pleasing yourself, yeah, I think a lot of us need to break through those societal programmings that we have. And how do you do that?

I think number one, just understanding that pleasure is not a dirty thing. Pleasure is divine. It is a gift. I mean, sensuality essentially means tuning into your senses. Mm-hmm.

There's nothing dirty or wrong about that. It's a beautiful part of being a human being. And I think if you're having a hard time kind of breaking through that cap, then you can do some research and find other people who are also struggling with the same programming and then realize like, hey, I'm not the only one that's feeling this way. There's a lot of

that want to be having pleasure and are having pleasure and it's normal and it's beautiful and it should be cherished and it should be celebrated. Absolutely. And I think also having these conversations are, it's very important, you know, because we have to normalize it. Like this is not,

But I think living in that strict, you know, in that world in our heads mainly, right? Isn't it? Because like when you start to actually have the conversation, you're like, oh, I'm not alone, like at all. Absolutely. Do you think that women get judged more for being celibate than men do? I find men, it's...

wow, you're so strong. And with women, it's kind of a whole different mindset around it. It's kind of like, because I've been so open, right? Like I, I'm like an open book. I can care less what, I mean, I can, I care what people think about or what's what they think as far as like sometimes what

what I say? Is it too much? But it is because I'm a woman. Like, I don't think we get celebrated enough. Instead, it's kind of like, oh, you'll find the right one. Like, that's not the reason why I'm celibate. Like, I know I can find the right one, but I'm not out there finding the right one because I don't want to. Like, I'm finding myself, right? So like, that alone is almost like that without even the celibacy part. It's kind of like, oh, pobrecita. Yeah, absolutely. People think that as a woman, a single woman, like,

It's a sad experience. I don't understand. I mean, being

single is so empowering. You get to design your life. You don't need to accommodate anybody else. It's such an empowering experience, but it's very sad that society looks on it like, oh, you poor thing. You're going to die alone. Well, how about this? We're all going to die alone. This is not new news, people. And who's going to take care of you when you're old? What? What?

this is instead like, you know how people celebrate, oh, we're Instagram official. Like I'm Instagram official with myself. Like why can't we all just celebrate both, you know? And, and the fact like Valentine's day, it's all, oh, I'm so sorry. Like I am so, I've never been so consistently content and, um,

The love I have for myself has never been where it is today. Put it that way. Not even close than when I was in relationships. Now, I'm not saying it's black and white, right? Like I, I truly believe that maybe now if I were to be in a relationship, yes, things would change, but it does take time to, because my, I always say my lazy brain, meaning like if I'm not really like conscious and really thinking about who I'm dating or, or what, um,

I'm attracting and vice versa. I will go back to those old patterns, right? So I'm not scared of doing it. I'm just like in this moment, in this present time, I'm really enjoying myself and my own company. And I don't think that's a bad thing. I'm 40. Yes. And people are like, they say, do you realize that maybe you're not going to be able to have kids? I'm like, yeah,

Guys, like it's just so crazy how people are so open and quick to judge others. But when it comes to their own experiences, it's a big no-no or I overshare. It's either or. You can never please everybody.

I tend to look at whether we're single or we're in partnership as what is my spiritual assignment right now? Is it that I need to grow? I've had times where I've chosen, like, I really want to be single right now because like you, I might have been serial dating or I might have been

Yeah.

I'm ready for another challenge right now. And right now for me in partnership, it's quite a challenge at times because you're triggered so much in partnership as well. And it's a challenge.

opportunity for me to look at what the mirror is in the situation. Oh my God, I just got chills. There's not a right or a wrong. It's a very personal decision about where is your healing and where is your growth and what type of container right now is right for you.

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you have said so many important things just now about it really is. It's kind of like the triggers, right? Are so important to look at and observe, um, and not react, but that's so much easier said than done. Uh, are you, so you're, so you are in a partnership currently? Yeah, I'm in a partnership. It's new. Uh, um, um,

But it was after a period where I'd been by my own for about a year and a half. Okay. And I just started feeling a little stagnant. My life was, I was making my life quite isolated, I found. So...

Partnership for me was I was ready for more challenges. I was ready for how I resolve my childhood traumas. Can I be foot put in front of the triggers and learn to respond and not react and to take a higher perspective? Can I learn to love and lean in when I really just want to hit the eject button and run for the hills? Yes.

I hear you. Wow. Okay. So you've done a lot of work on yourself. Would you like to tell me and my listeners like your background a little bit just so, you know, we, we know, uh, we just know a little bit more about you cause it's so fascinating. Sure. I mean, I, I grew up, um,

I don't think that there's good people or bad people. I think that we're all doing the very best we can with our states of consciousness at the time. But the environment that I grew up in was not very nurturing and it was quite traumatizing and it really left me with a lot of limiting beliefs about myself. I fully believed that I was not lovable. I would never be enough. And I started as I grew

became a teenager and I became an adult, I started making really bad decisions for myself. I hang out with people that I thought would equate to my worth. And that resulted in very abusive relationships and just a life of chaos.

And I just had this moment one day where I just said, I don't want this. I don't want this anymore. And so I just committed myself to education at that point in time. So not just with psychology, but with metaphysics and spirituality, really just trying to learn as much as I can from my healing. And then now I spend every day helping people, you know, find their way out of the darkness. Wow. Yeah.

I can relate big time. And it's beautiful what you're doing as far as, you know, being of service because there's so many people who I'm sure also can relate to your story in a way and that feels stagnant and stuck. And it's interesting because when you say that, it's like,

I don't feel that right now. Just right now. I can only speak for now. Right. And regardless of time, what is time anyway, at the end of the day, but that I felt like that, like in my relationships and, um, that feeling of stagnant, I know it very well. And it was, uh,

it is something that you can get really comfortable in. Absolutely. For me, it was very disempowering to be in relationships before I really needed to spend time alone and just really focus on loving myself. My grandmother was somebody that was a

beautiful person in my life. And when she had transitioned, she had left me her like great, great grandmother's engagement ring. And so the promise that I'd made to myself when I had that aha moment was I put it on my finger and I said, from now on, I'm going to date you. I'm going to love you. And

I look back and it's such a transition of how did that girl become this girl and really what it was. It was just a decision to love me and invest in me every day. And then slowly, but surely you fill up your own cup and you just experience the world and people within it in a very different way, but it was necessary. Absolutely. For me. That takes a lot of self awareness though. Right? So like,

how does one do that if they're just not self-aware? Like, you know, I guess it's kind of like, do you have to hit rock bottom for that to happen? I know it's different for everybody, but like, I have to take accountability for my sobriety. It's very similar, you know, and, um,

I truly believe I'm not grateful for the trauma that has happened in my life, obviously, but because of the trauma, I'm able to voice, I believe this very in an open setting. And I think that for that, I know is the reason why that has happened, you know, because I know we're helping people.

I do. I do actually think we need to hit a rock bottom. If I look at my own experiences and I look at anyone that's ever come to me as a client, no one's ever come to me when everything was going great and I mean, how can I blow up? How can I level up? It's always been like,

wow, okay, I just realized that I'm the common denominator in all of these things that don't feel good. What can I do? And I actually haven't seen anyone come to me when they haven't been in a place of pain and they haven't been comfort. So I wish I could say, yeah, we just had like a seed of inspiration and self-awareness that just blossomed one day, but I haven't seen it.

Yeah, no, I think you're right. Actually, something has to happen to where you're like, okay, I give up. Like you can, you can't blame anybody else but yourself. We surrender. Everyone's just like, okay, okay, what do I need to do? Okay. So what happens when you're just not sexually inspired or you're no longer motivated? Like, do you, do you, is it important to reach or like to re-energize that

part of you? Yeah, I think our sexual energy is our creative energy. So I do think that it is essential that we invest into ourselves and we cultivate that energy. Now, we're not going to just be in the mood for that a lot of the time, but it's the same as if I want to have a certain body, I might not feel like going to the gym, but I know I need to go do those habits in order to cultivate the result that I'm looking for. And if I'm

Well, that sensual energy and sexual energy and creative energy is all something that is a lifeline to me and makes me feel vibrant and happy and resonate on a higher vibrational level. Then I know that I need to take the actions and the habits that are going to cultivate that. And it's really about exploration and a self-discovery. There's a

different methodologies that we can use to start to channel our sexual energy. I think movement, I'm a dancer, you know, so like for me, it's just like self-awareness with the body even just like it doesn't have to, you don't have to go to the nearest sex store, you know, or whatever it's called. But like, honestly, it's just being in tune with your body, like just breathing. How about just breathing?

Just breathing. Stretching. Yeah. Even just, I mean, sensual energy, it's your senses. It's not about your vagina. It's about senses. And it's any way that you feel like you can tune into your senses. You can sit here in the room and you can look at where the shadows and the light meet.

You can smell and see what's the most fragrant smell I smell. You can taste, I can taste coffee on my breath right now. How does this dress feel on my body right now? It can be just having a nice bubble bath with essential oils and giving myself that time. It can be putting moisture lotion on. It can be stretching. It can be self-love, self-care. This is

all the giving back because like you can't do anything if you don't fill your cup up. You can't be there for anybody. I mean, you can, but it's going to run out like you're going to break. Yeah, you're going to be resentful. You're what you give to others has to be what's left over what's spilling out of your cup. You can't give up. It has to spill out of your cup.

Residents at Brightview Senior Living Communities enjoy enhanced possibilities, independence, and choice. Brightview Dulles Corner in Herndon and Brightview Great Falls offer vibrant senior independent living, assisted living, and memory care services through various daily programs and cultural events.

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So when it comes to partnership and you want to self please and have, you know, please yourself, is it something to be open as far as communication goes? Cause I, I have experienced, um, you know, ex partners of mine who may have not necessarily loved the idea of me giving pleasure to myself. Um,

and have wanted to always be around it every time, you know, and obviously I just think people analyze things a little too much. And maybe also I, maybe I did not have to talk to them about it. You know what I mean? As far as that goes, maybe it's none of their business. I don't know. You tell me. Well, it really depends what kind of relationship that you want to have. I think if somebody is trying to control your pleasure, that's a red flag. Yes. Yeah.

I don't really agree with pornography. I think that there can be an issue when we're using external people and external stimulus to orgasm and to pleasure. I think it should be more about using your imagination and tuning into your body and connecting to yourself. I understand people feeling...

insecure and having fear-based thoughts, if they think that you rather watch porn than be with them. And I can see how a lot of meanings can be given to that. I don't think it's necessary that you say, hey, this morning, I masturbated and it was so awesome. Of course not. I think we need to share that, but it's...

But what kind of relationship do you want to have with somebody? If that's something important to you that you guys are in alignment on and that you do share, then yeah, you want to share. If it's something that you want to keep as a ritual for yourself,

That's fine too. I don't necessarily tell my partner every time I take a bubble bath. No. Right. So it's just really, I don't think there's a right and wrong container. It's really about you knowing where you want your relationship to be and that you're taking the actions and the habits in order to create that for yourself. Yeah, I guess you're right. I mean,

I will from, I mean, years ago when I was in a, I've only been in serious relationships, you know, so, and plural back to back, as you know now, but it was interesting. Cause like when it comes to porn and all that stuff, you know, if it happens regularly and it's without you, then obviously those feelings of like, am I enough or not enough come up. And when you say like outside, um,

um pleasure in a way are you also talking about like sex toys and stuff like that as well

No, I think sex toys are fine because you're still using your imagination. You're not using another person that you're watching. Another person. And I think the issue with pornography too, is it does to stimulate you because there's always people trying to push the threshold more and more and more. And porn is performative. It's not real sex doesn't look like that. So it also just creates really unrealistic expectations. Yeah.

Yeah. No, it's not healthy. Yeah. At all. I don't think. But like teach their own, you know? And I think when it comes to that, I do believe open conversation and being transparent is important because when you start to hide it, which I've also experienced, it's just not, that to me is like a red flag. Well, if you feel that you need to hide anything, it's already a red flag. And that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You've done a lot of work on yourself. I really respect that. Thank you. Likewise. Thank you. Let's transition to this article that has caused controversy, but I mean, what hasn't nowadays let's talk about what being a sleep divorce means. What does that mean exactly? Sleep divorce is when you are sleeping in separate beds and you're

I mean, I think with like many things, there's pros and cons to whatever decisions that you make. For some people, it's very practical. It's more common in older couples. Snoring is an issue, menopause, different sleep schedules. But the thing is...

There is an unconscious bonding that happens when we're sleeping next to somebody. So if you are choosing to sleep in separate beds, be aware that that closeness that you're not having does need to be substituted and replaced with another type of connection ritual.

For sure. And I posted something on my Instagram story yesterday about this. And I got so many DMs from people. Yeah. Saying my husband snores so loud. Like there is no choice. Like I, and mind you, this obviously has happened over time. Like they've obviously started out sleeping together. It wasn't like a rule that was, you know, enforced from the beginning, but it also matters when it comes to your mental health. Like sleep is so important. Yeah.

But yes, I agree with you. Like maybe there needs to be a time for intimacy, but then there's the pressure of great. I just got to like have sex with you now. Or it's not even about this physical act of sex. It's not even about, it's not even about sex. It's just about, it's about intimacy. I mean, laying,

next to somebody there's those small little physical touches there's the warmth of a body next to you there's the presence and so I think that you do feel a void when that person's not there but at the same time if you're getting one hour of disrupted sleep and you can't function the next day but you're like oh but we sleep in bed every night I mean what's the trade-off here but there's

Lots of ways around this. I mean, you can go to bed at the same time and you can just cuddle for an hour. You can wake up and you can cuddle for an hour. You can have coffee in bed. Like there's lots of ways that we can still put the intimacy if for your state of well-being, it just doesn't work to sleep in the same bed together.

Have you ever slept in a separate bed or wanted to with a partner? I get hot. But I don't think so. I would say me three years ago wouldn't like that because that's not where I was in my life.

personal life. I think that with that would have come a lot of insecurity to be just completely transparent with you. I would have felt not as connected, but that had to do with my trust issues and stuff like that, you know, and that was all also in just maybe just in my head, but then it would just escalate and kind of go down a rabbit hole. So, but today I'm totally for it if needed.

Some people even sleep in bunk beds as long as snoring is not the issue. But if it's something like I get too hot. I have to say I have a really weird sleeping. I don't have as like I'm a dancer and I my creative juices happen at like after midnight. And I do remember this bothering my exes at one point where like I don't me going to bed before bed.

two in the morning is hard to do. Like I am a night owl and I know that that affected some of my relationships for sure. Um, especially if I wasn't dating a dancer, you know, and, um, some people work better at night. Some people work better at mornings and it's just different for everybody. And so that would definitely screw, uh, get a little screwy. I think.

I think it's even a question on Tinder nowadays. Are you an early bird or are you a night owl? That's a good question. There is a compatibility issue there that means you need to talk about it and you need to compromise. My partner, he has really bad sleep anxiety. And so a lot of the time he tries to go to bed with me, but he'll just lay there and eventually he has to get up and then he falls asleep when I'm getting up to start with my sessions in the morning. Oh.

and the transition to have because I haven't experienced that before so it took us coming up with like our rituals and ways that we were going to work around this and creating a compromise and for that to work for us do you mind sharing just quickly this will be our last thing yeah so he'll lay in bed with me and then I

I I'm like out like a light by eight 30, because I wake up super early. And so he'll lay in bed with me. I'm I'm gone. And then he goes and he does his work. And then generally I only work till noon. So when I'm done work, he's actually getting up. So we are not really missing important time with each other. But then on the weekends, when I don't have clients, I stay up later and he gets up earlier. So I'll usually book us an adventure that we're going on. Yes.

in the middle and we have something fun planned to do. See guys, there's solutions. It's very specific. There's always solutions. It's just a matter of talking it out because I mean, the biggest complex that all humans have is we think we think the same. So if you're doing something different than me, I must be right and you must be wrong and it's

It's where the issues begin. But if we can just accept, hey, you're different and I'm different. This is a very different thing about us. But how do we find a middle ground here? What's a fun compromise that feels good for the both of us? Let's try that. Let's make an agreement on that. And the communication, you have to feel comfortable enough to just communicate this, right? Because there's a lot of shame behind it. But thank you so much for all that you do. Seriously, this is so important. Thanks for your time. Take care. You too. Bye-bye.

Thank you, Dr. Shanna, for joining me today. I really hadn't given too much thought to the whole idea of sleep divorce, so I'm glad we talked about it. Are you having a difficult time navigating dating and sex since your breakup or divorce? Are you looking for some advice? Call us or email us. Follow us on socials. All the information will be in the show notes. Make sure to rate and review the podcast. I do part two in iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective.

Residents at Brightview Senior Living Communities enjoy enhanced possibilities, independence, and choice. Brightview Dulles Corner in Herndon and Brightview Great Falls offer vibrant senior independent living, assisted living, and memory care services through various daily programs and cultural events.

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Let's go places. Introducing pickle lovers' newest obsession, Cauliflower's Dill Pickle Pizza. Think luxurious bechamel sauce infused with dill pickle brine, roasted garlic, melty mozzarella, and fresh dill on Cauliflower's stone-fired cauliflower crust.

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