The Fall of a Tyrant
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It's Monday, December 9th, right now on CNN This Morning. At long last, the Assad regime has fallen. The fall of a tyrant. What's next for Syria after the sudden end to a brutal civil war? And... For what they did, honestly, they should go to jail. Trump's retribution? The president-elect thinks somebody should be in jail for January 6th, but it's not the rioters. And... You're talking about what would be the largest investment in immigration and border security.

A day one promise, how Trump plans to enact his border policies starting on Inauguration Day. And new allegations, Jay-Z's fierce denial in the face of a lawsuit tying him, along with Sean Diddy Combs, to the alleged sexual assault of a minor. All right, 6 a.m. here on the East Coast, or just before 6 a.m., 5.59, live look at New York City on this Monday. Good morning, everyone. I'm Casey Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us.

We begin with the stunning fall of the Assad regime in Syria. The people of Syria celebrating in the streets, marking the end of more than five decades of the Assad family's brutal dictatorship. Overnight, a CNN team on the ground reports hearing strikes in Damascus, the U.S. confirming they hit more than 70 ISIS targets overnight, and Israel's foreign minister says the Israeli military struck weapons systems and chemical weapons capacity in Syria.

After a civil war that started in 2011, rebel forces launched a sweeping offensive late last month, capturing key Syrian cities in a matter of days. Assad fleeing with his family to Russia, where he had been granted asylum on humanitarian grounds. President Biden calling his downfall a quote, fundamental act of justice. At long last, the Assad regime has fallen. This regime

brutalized and tortured and killed literally hundreds of thousands of innocent Syrians for the first time ever. Neither Russia nor Iran or Hezbollah could defend this abhorrent regime in Syria. Syrian rebel leader Abu Mohammed al-Jolani, who's been on the U.S. terror watch list since 2013 with a $10 million bounty on his head, is declaring, quote, complete victory over the Assad regime.

reassuring religious and ethnic minorities, quote, Syria is for everyone, no exceptions. This victory, my brothers, is a victory for the entire Islamic nation. This new triumph, my brothers, marks a new chapter in the history of the region. Syrians sweeping into Damascus, ransacking Assad's palace, uncovering a luxury car collection worth millions, including a Ferrari F50, a Lamborghini, a Rolls, and a Bentley.

former State Department Middle East negotiator. Aaron David Miller joins us now. He's a senior fellow now at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Sir, thanks very much for being with us this morning. Thanks for having me, Casey. So let's start with this rebel leader, Abu Muhammad al-Jolani, what we know about him, about the group he leads, and what that means for America's interests and security.

Well, you know, Ahmed Shar is his real name. He's been showing up not in at least one interview in suits. He's allowing the international media in, which is a very good sign. He's saying and doing all the right things with respect to talking about inclusion, protecting the rights of minorities. The HTS has sent a representative to Latakia, the Alawite stronghold, to assure the Alawite minority that there won't be retribution.

Against regime supporters. All of this strikes me as headlines, Casey. The question is whether the trend lines will hold as HTS and the complex and consolidated sort of loose alliance of Islamist groups begin to deal not with the issue of rebelling. That's hard. But governing is harder. And look, the reality is

The track record here for overthrowing Middle East dictators is not an inspiring one. In Egypt, Mubarak was overthrown. A repressive government followed. In Libya, Qaddafi was overthrown. Libya is plunged into internal chaos and division. In Yemen, Abdullah Saleh overthrown. The Houthis govern large parts of the area. In Iraq, which may be the best example, Saddam is overthrown, and yet Iraq in so many respects is dysfunctional.

So the real question, I think, is whether or not you can convert this extraordinary moment, which demonstrates the importance of individuals for good or ill in the course of human events, whether or not Jalani and the movement he holds will be able to reconcile itself and its Islamic principles and the tasks of nation building in a traumatized world

Society of 23 million people, which is driven by sectarian divisions. That's the real key here. And again, headlines look pretty good. The question is where the trend line is going.

Sir, what does this say about the bigger players that are really kind of pulling the strings behind the scenes, notably Russia and Iran? The fact that this happened, where Assad has gone, and what that means not just for the future of Syria, but for Iran, its nuclear program, for Russia, its war in Ukraine, for all of it. Yeah. You know, the civil war paradoxically opened the door to foreign powers.

The Iranians, as you point out, the Russians, which became the key power broker in saving Assad, the Turks, who have a complex relationship with Kurds, they have 3 million refugees, they have a liaison relationship with HTS. They wanted this to happen because more refugees in Turkey will go back, and the Kurds figure they'll take advantage of this in order to strike a blow at U.S.-supported Kurdish forces.

But I think now you have a situation in which Russia and Iran are playing less of a role. Hezbollah is weakened and hollowed out. Israelis are certainly acting. For the first time in 50-plus years, they entered the 1974 disengagement zone. Prime Minister says it's temporary. We'll see about that. But I think the Syrians actually now have a degree of agency that they've never had before. And we can't fix Syria.

I think the president-elect had made it unmistakably clear that he wants no part of it. He wanted to withdraw U.S. forces from Syria, the 900 that are deployed in the eastern part of the country. He had to be talked out of it.

And I suspect without a compelling reason that benefits him, I suspect he will want to push the Americans deployed there through the exit. So the regional powers are going to continue to meddle. The question is whether the Syrians can grab the opportunity that they have and lead this country into a better future. Unclear at this point, Casey. Really unclear. For sure. All right. Aaron David Miller starting us off this morning, sir. Thanks very much for your time and expertise. I appreciate it.

Thanks for having me. All right, coming up here on CNN This Morning, more on this developing story out of Syria as rebels capture Damascus, toppling the Assad regime. Congressman Dan Kildee joins us to discuss. Plus, the new allegations against music mogul Jay-Z tying him to the Diddy case. And revenge prosecutions. Donald Trump says he'd like to see those who investigated him, some of them behind bars.

The executive branch can't go after the legislative branch because we embarrassed him. That's not a sin. That's not against the law. I'm Anderson Cooper. Grief isn't talked about much, but that's what my podcast is all about. I'm grieving all the time. This is All There Is, Season 3. My guest, Alex Van Halen. Alex and his younger brother, Eddie, were founding members of Van Halen, one of the most successful rock bands in history. And he's just written a book called Brothers about his life with Ed.

When I'm alone and I put on a piece of music and I hear him play, I break down uncontrollably. Listen to All There Is with Anderson Cooper wherever you get your podcasts. Ladies and gentlemen, please rise for the horribly and unfairly treated January 6th hostages. You see the spirit from the hostages and that's what they are, is hostages. They've been treated terribly. Unbelievable patriots and they were unbelievable patriots and are.

President-elect Donald Trump re-upping promise that he has made to the people that he calls patriots charged and convicted for crimes related to January 6th. More than a thousand people have either been convicted or pleaded guilty in connection to the 2021 attack on the nation's capital, according to the Department of Justice. Trump himself was facing charges until special counsel Jack Smith dropped the cases against him because he won re-election.

Now, in his first sit-down interview since he won, Trump signaling quick pardons for those involved. But I'm going to be acting very quickly. Within your first 100 days? First day? First day. First day? Yeah, I'm looking first day. You're going to issue these pardons? These people have been there, how long is it? Three or four years. Okay. You know, by the way, they've been in there for years, and they're in a filthy, disgusting place that shouldn't even be allowed to be open.

Trump does believe that some people should be in jail, those who investigated the Capitol riot. For what they did, honestly, they should go to jail. So you think Liz Cheney should go to jail? For what they did. Everyone on the committee you think should go to jail? I think everybody on the committee. Anybody that voted in favor. Are you going to direct your FBI director and your attorney general to send them to jail? No, not at all. I think that they'll have to look at that. But I'm not going to. I'm going to focus on drill baby drill.

Adam Kinzinger, one of the two Republicans on the January 6th House committee, says he's not worried about Trump's threats. Ultimately, when we talked about him throwing his ketchup and hamburger against the wall, there's nothing illegal about that. And most of the people that testified were actually his Republicans, you know, fellow Republicans that went up and spoke in him. So look, he's all butthurt right now because he was embarrassed. He's not going to come after us and I'm not worried about it at all.

All right, joining us now to discuss Michael Warren, senior editor at The Dispatch, Lulu Garcia Navarro, CNN contributor, journalist for The New York Times, Megan Hayes, former director of message planning at the Biden White House, and Matt Gorman, former advisor to Tim Scott's presidential campaign. Welcome to all of you. So you heard what Kinzinger had to say there. We also received a scathing statement from Liz Cheney, who, of course, really the lightning rod figure on the committee

And this is what she says, quote, "This was the worst breach," she's talking about January 6th, "of our Constitution by any president in our nation's history. Donald Trump's suggestion that members of Congress who later investigated his illegal and unconstitutional actions should be jailed is a continuation of his assault

On the rule of law and the foundations of our republic, there is no conceivably appropriate factual or constitutional basis for what Donald Trump is suggesting. A Justice Department investigation of the work of a congressional committee and any lawyer who attempts to pursue that course would quickly find themselves engaged in sanctionable conduct. Michael Warren, Kinzinger says he's not afraid. Should they be?

I kind of think maybe they should be. I mean, I think if you look at... It's interesting. I watched that entire hour-16-minute interview with Donald Trump, and there's a part where he says...

You know, my retribution will be success when the economy is great, when everything is going so much better, when I've set things up. I don't care about the past. And just a few minutes later, the clip that you just played, he's putting into place or he hopes to put into place people like Kash Patel, who, if you listen to what they've said on podcasts and interviews and these sorts of things, they certainly view retribution against success.

specifically the January 6th committee, specifically against the FBI. They view that the FBI has overreached their bounds going after Donald Trump specifically. They're serious about it. Donald Trump may say,

you know, they'll have to make those decisions. He's the one putting these people in potentially in positions of power. I think we should take it seriously because they certainly, I'm talking about Kash Patel, but others in the Justice Department, in Trump's Justice Department, potentially, they are taking it seriously. Megan Hayes, this obviously plays into the conversation we were having starting last week about possible preemptive pardons for some of these people. Adam Schiff has said he doesn't want one. There would, of course, be some sort of implication of

of guilt if you accept a pardon like this. How do you think Trump's comments are going to impact that debate inside the White House? Look, I think this is why they're having that debate, right? I think that people should be fearful, to your point, of what's going to happen. It's not necessarily that they did anything wrong, but they can go after them. They can charge them with things. That's hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees. It's not just about what's going to happen if they're convicted, because they didn't commit crime, so they're not going to be. But it's the whole process that's going to take

for this all to play out and the money that they're going to have to spend. So I understand why the Biden White House is doing this. I understand why this is now a conversation because the president-elect is making comments basically saying he's going to attack these people. Lulu, do you think it would be smart of them to do these preemptive pardons or would it be wrong? I'm

I'm not a believer in the preemptive pardons because I think what ends up happening is Donald Trump distorts what we consider to be acceptable. And no one has ever done a preemptive pardon before. It would be really pushing the boundaries of what the norms are. He constantly does that. And just in a comment, already they're having this reaction. He hasn't done anything. Kash Patel hasn't been actually put into power yet. And so I do think that

Democrats and Republicans who might be targeted probably need to calm down. I agree with Michael that I don't think that this is spurious. It may very well happen. But I think this idea of preemptive pardons and putting Biden in that position

I don't think it's wise. I mean, I think the norm breaker was the Hunter pardon a week ago, right? And that led to the preemptive pardons. And I think, candidly, that made it a lot easier, a lot easier for Trump to talk about January 6th pardons like he's doing now, right? Oh, come on. Come on. He's been talking about January 6th pardons for years. But you know what he also is open about?

He's not lying about it like Biden did for months, number one. And number two, I think Michael makes a good point. I mean, there was a difference between the retribution and success in the earlier part of that interview. And then this, I think it's far more- You can see the anger kind of flash on his face when this topic-

And look, this has always been that push and pull with Trump. We're talking about the future and then the past, right? I think Trump has always helped far more by talking about and acting on the issues that he won on, right? Primarily the economy and immigration. And I've said this, whether it's Democrats or Republicans, the more you're talking about 2020, the more you are not being effective. Matt, we are going to see, and I am pretty sure...

the January 6th people pardoned and probably given congressional, you know, not congressional, but like presidential, you know, medals at the White House. That's ridiculous. I'm joking, obviously. I'm joking, obviously. But what I'm saying here is that for Donald Trump, what matters is

is that these people are pardoned because they reflect on him. He sees them as his emissaries. He doesn't think that what happened on January 6th was an assault on the government. And so therefore, exonerating them exonerates him. Do you fail to see, though, how much easier...

easier politically and rhetorically and just in the, as you talked about, pushing the norms, that last week's pardon of Hunter led to all of this so much easier. Right, but Hunter didn't try to overthrow the government. These people tried to overthrow the government. They stormed our Capitol. And I hear what you're saying. I totally do. But I just think that pardoning your son...

for crimes that did not affect, that were victimless crimes are very different than storming the Capitol where people died. - Crimes he was not convicted of and over a longer period of time. It was not simply crimes he was convicted of. Again, we talk about norms breaking. It made it so much easier for both the Republican Party-- - It doesn't make it right. - I'm not saying either of that. I'm saying that when we talk about norms breaking, this made it so much easier and also for Trump to be open about it.

If I go back to the January 6th committee, you could hear Donald Trump. I always pay attention to the words that he says. He laid out the predicate for prosecuting members of the January 6th committee and the staff, saying that they destroyed documents. This is something, again, you have to listen to these podcasts for two, three years. Kash Patel has been on. I

You know, if you can do it, put it on while you're working out or driving to work, and you can see where they've been laying the argument for going after Trump's enemies if they're back in power. Trump is back in power. He's going to put these people who are his retribution in power as well. It's something that people who were involved in this should be concerned with.

I think Matt is actually laying the case out as well, which is like Trump has been open about it. He hasn't hit it. Kash Patel hasn't hit it. I mean, they've all been very open. And so they feel like they have the mandate to do it. And so they will. So as we button up this conversation, I just want to make sure that we underscore, and this was written--

clearly in the New York Times by Peter Baker, they quote, the January 6th committee did not destroy all evidence. It released an 800-page report, 140 transcripts of testimony, memos, emails, voicemail messages. The evidence remains online. Mr. Thompson explained in a letter last year the committee did ask the executive branch to go through some material first to protect

law enforcement sensitive operational details and private personal information that if released could endanger the safety of the witnesses. And I think it's also worth noting that Liz Cheney in her statement that she released over the weekend said very clearly that the Justice Department should not be allowed under Trump to destroy the evidence that Jack Smith has gathered in the course of his investigation. All right, we gotta move on. A little later on CNN this morning, a manhunt expanding.

The net is tightening and we're going to bring this person to justice. Coming up, could fake money prove to be a real clue in the search for the CEO killer? Plus, today, Trump's cabinet picks pitching themselves to lawmakers. Mark McKinnon here to discuss all things Trump transition. All right, welcome back. A woman who claims she was sexually assaulted by Sean Diddy Combs has updated her lawsuit to include allegations that she was also assaulted by Jay-Z at the same party.

The woman, identified as a Jane Doe, says she was 13 years old at the time the two men assaulted her at an after-party after the Video Music Awards in 2000.

Jay-Z strongly denies the claim, calling it heinous. He writes this in a statement, quote, CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson is with us now. Joey, good morning. What do you make of this statement from Jay-Z as well as the updating of this lawsuit?

Yeah, Casey, good morning to you. I take it that he's swinging hard. He vehemently denies this, giving the indication that if this happened, then you know what? I should be in jail. And so why not bring forward criminal charges? And to the extent that the allegations in the complaint really

do talk about what we've heard before, Casey, which is the drugging of someone. This also indicates that he would have held her down and forcibly raped her, which would be rape in the first degree, doesn't have a statute of limitations in New York, and so it should be investigated.

but he really is saying that this is complete fiction. And last point on this, Casey, the lawsuit itself does give some indication of witnesses, not only the fact that there was another celebrity present, but after the fact that this woman

went to a gas station. She was then a girl of 13, and a gas station attendant noticed her distress, and then she called her dad. And so there would be some indication or some witnesses, which it would take to corroborate the fact that something untoward, inappropriate, or illegal happened to her if it did. Really, really tough. And Joey, there is something as well to the lawyer involved in this case. He came in for some criticism as well. Can you help us understand that piece?

Yeah, I think a lot of people are saying that he's sending these demand letters. What demand letters are, Casey, is they're letters saying that, listen, we will not sue you in the event that you enter into a mediation and we reach some favorable result, collective favorable result. Now, demand letters are generally pretty standard in the industry where prior to litigation, you give a

a person the opportunity who's going to be sued to settle the case he's saying that is jay-z that it was just blackmail that he's trying to blackmail him and others really by not wanting allegations to get public to sit at a table so that he could basically extort money from them

and so jay-z is suing him as a result of that that's not the first lawsuit against busby busby suing another law firm uh... their ethics around certainly sending these demand letters ethics really center around whether they are specific credible facts that deserve a lawsuit in the first place will see it is an allegation any lawsuit is an allegation has to be proven in a court of

law. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. It's whether there are factual issues that can be proven that really would carry the day or not. So we'll see how this develops, Casey. Yeah. And of course, we're talking about Tony Busby, the attorney who's on behalf of the girl and others who are complaining, have complaints against Sean Diddy Combs and apparently now Jay-Z. Joey Jackson, thank you very much for your time this morning. I appreciate it.

All right. New York City police releasing two new photos of the suspected gunman who shot and killed Brian Thompson, the CEO of UnitedHealthcare. The suspect's backpack found in Central Park was filled with Monopoly money, but no weapon. An NYPD dive team coming up empty after searching for the gun this weekend in a Central Park lake.

Coming up next here on CNN This Morning, jubilation in Syria as the Assad regime falls. We're live in Moscow after the ousted leader and his family flee to Russia. Plus, Congressman Dan Kildee is here to discuss how and if the U.S. should respond to Syria. And later, Donald Trump ran on fixing the border, how he plans to make it a day one priority. I don't want to be breaking up families. So the only way you don't break up the family is you keep them together and you have to send them all back.

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This week on The Assignment with me, Adi Cornish.

What Senator-elect Andy Kim has learned about humility, authenticity, and winning in the first Trump era, and how he thinks Democrats could approach the next one. We have to show that when we talk about protecting democracy, that doesn't mean that we are defending what is inherently a broken status quo that has led to the greatest amount of inequality in American history. Listen to The Assignment with me, Adi Cornish, streaming now on your favorite podcast app.

All right, welcome back. Syria's Bashar al-Assad arriving in Moscow, where Russia has granted he and his family asylum, according to Russian state media.

As rebel forces closed in on the Syrian capital Saturday, a source told CNN that Assad was nowhere to be found in the city. People quickly ransacked the toppled dictator's presidential palace, walking out with furniture, paintings, other personal belongings. Let's bring in CNN senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen, who is at the Syrian embassy in Moscow with more on this. Fred, good morning. Good morning.

Hi there, good morning Casey. There certainly are some pretty clear signs that the Russians are also coming to terms with the fact that the Syrian Arab Republic under Bashar al-Assad no longer exists. In fact, you can see right up there that above the Syrian embassy here in Moscow as of this morning flies the flag of the Syrian opposition. Of course, now most probably the official flag of Syria. We have asked the folks here at the embassy actually and they say that this embassy is

continues to function and is functioning as normally. Meanwhile, we're also getting some information here from the Russians. The Kremlin this morning telling, on a conference call, telling reporters that the decision to grant asylum to Bashar al-Assad and members of his family was made directly by Vladimir Putin. He directly

signed off on this decision. Of course, we know that last night Assad and family members arrived here in Moscow. The Russians also admitting that they were taken by surprise how quickly the forces around Bashar al-Assad folded, how quickly that regime folded as the opposition forces were closing in on Damascus and, of course, other cities.

inside Syria as well. The big question for the Russians right now, they were, of course, the biggest backers or one of the biggest backers of the Assad government is what happens to their military assets inside of Syria.

The Kremlin, they're also saying at this point in time, they simply don't know. They are saying that all of that will depend on what happens over the next couple of weeks, the next couple of months. The Russians are saying that they are in touch with all of the armed groups on the ground, they say. They do say that their forces on the ground are on high alert, but that right now the situation around their bases remains calm. KC.

All right, Fred Pleikin for us. It's an extraordinary day there. Fred, thanks very much for that report. And the fall of the Assad regime in Syria means that come January, President-elect Donald Trump will inherit a new balance of power in the Middle East. Helping Trump craft his regional policy will be his new cabinet selections.

Among them, former Democratic congresswoman turned Republican commentator Tulsi Gabbard, who sat down with then-President Bashar al-Assad in a highly controversial 2017 meeting. She has also previously declined to say whether Assad is a war criminal.

And now, of course, those positions have emerged as a key obstacle for Gabbard as she prepares for her Senate confirmation hearing. This is how she defended those questions when I asked her about them back in 2019. Do you think Assad is our enemy? Assad is not the enemy of the United States because Syria does not pose a direct threat to the United States.

What do you say to Democratic voters who watched you go over there? And what do you say to military members who have been deployed repeatedly in Syria pushing back against Assad? People who have been deployed to Syria have been there focused on their mission, which has been to defeat ISIS. Our troops have not gone to Syria to wage yet another costly, destructive regime change war.

All right, joining us now to discuss, Democratic Congressman Dan Kildee of Michigan. He currently sits on the House Ways and Means and Budget Committee, although you are in your waning days, Congressman. I am. I am. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you. I want to start with Tulsi Gabbard, who is somebody that you served with and has been nominated, of course, to be the Director of National Intelligence. Based on what we've seen out of Syria, based on what she has said about the Syrians, this is, of course, tied in with Russia, Russia's

What implications would having her as DNI have in this situation? Well, it's concerning. Tulsi Gabbard is completely wrong. Bashar al-Assad is an enemy of the United States, unless we feel that...

that a leader who is willing to drop barrel bombs and use chemical weapons against his own people is okay. The United States has some moral responsibility to stand up for people who can't stand up for themselves. And to think that we can just be neutral on this question of Assad's regime shocks the conscience, and it does call into question whether a person who held those outrageous views

could suddenly be sitting next to the President of the United States and have the last word as he makes decisions about how the U.S. should respond to a situation like this. She's completely wrong, and it's a dangerous moment, and I hope the Senate takes that particular line of questioning very seriously as they consider her qualifications. There is new reporting from NBC about how

There was at one point a Syrian defector who came to speak to members of the committee, I believe it was House Foreign Affairs,

And the aides, I'll just read it, quote, the aides were concerned that Gabbard might leak information about the defector who had hidden his identity out of fear of reprisal from the Assad regime. Some worried that she might even reveal his identity to someone associated with the Syrian government, which at that point had killed hundreds of thousands of its own citizens. Both Democratic and Republican aides told the Syrians accompanying the defector, known as Caesar, to ensure that he covered his face before Gabbard entered the room

just in case. What are the implications of that? Well, I mean, that kind of sets the frame as to how outrageous this whole transition could end up being. The first Trump administration, while I had huge disagreements with them, it seemed as though he surrounded himself with people who, whether he intended or not, were willing to push back against him when it came to these big questions.

the concerns that members, Democrats and Republicans, at least their staff members, have expressed about Tulsi Gabbard ought to be chilling when it comes to what Bashar al-Assad has been willing to do to his own people. He's not a friend of the United States.

Let's talk briefly about what we heard from President-elect Trump over the weekend. We just had a long conversation about it on the show. He vowed to pardon many of the people who have been jailed in the wake of the Capitol riots. He also said that the people that should be in jail are the people who were on the committee who investigated him, the January 6th

Committee you I know have spoken extensively about your experience on that day. What's your reaction to what Donald Trump said? Well, it's just offensive I mean I was there I saw it firsthand people attacked the Capitol they beat police officers people died had they gotten through past those officers what they would have done to some of us who were trapped in that gallery on that terrible day we don't know what they would have done and the very notion of

that the people, Democrats and Republicans, who were trying to hold those individuals accountable would, in Donald Trump's mind, be those who are culpable. And he would somehow see these attackers, this mob, this unruly, dangerous mob as somehow being righteous. Either he's intentionally stupid, which I'm not sure

how much he understands about how the rule of law ought to function in society, or he just has so much more in common with some of these totalitarian dictators that he seems to align himself with that he's willing to do these sorts of things. - Do you think President Biden should preemptively pardon members of the January 6th committee before he leaves office?

You know, first of all, I'm not a fan of the pardon authority, but I think there is a serious question as to whether there's something that can be do to protect those individuals. But I'm not a lawyer and I don't really agree with presidential authority to offer pardons, no matter who it is. But I do think we're at an incredibly important inflection point. I would hate to see

People who are simply trying to do their job to protect this country suddenly become the victim of a totalitarian-leaning president. All right, Congressman Dan Kildee for us this morning, sir. Thanks very much for being on the show. Thanks, Casey. All right, straight ahead here on CNN This Morning, Donald Trump's retribution, hinting over the weekend at how he could get revenge on people he views...

as his political enemies. Mark McKinnon joins to discuss. Plus, dissecting the election, Harvard's Institute of Politics always takes a deep dive into what goes right and what goes wrong for campaigns. They did it this weekend for Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. This political environment sucked, okay? We were dealing with ferocious headwinds.

Your border czar, Tom Homan, said they can be deported together. Is that the plan? Well, I don't want to be breaking up families, so the only way you don't break up the family is you keep them together and you have to send them all back.

We are learning more details about Trump's plan to enact his campaign promises when it comes to the border and on tariffs as well when he returns to the White House. On the trail, Donald Trump vowed repeatedly to carry out a nationwide mass deportation starting on day one. Now, in his first sit-down interview since winning re-election, he's also attacking the idea of birthright citizenship, something that is, of course, protected by the 14th Amendment.

We're the only country that has it. Through an executive action. You know, we're the only country that has it. Do you know, if somebody sets a foot, just a foot, one foot, you don't need to, on our land, congratulations, you are now a citizen of the United States of America. Yes, we're going to end that because it's ridiculous. The president-elect was also asked about his recent threats to increase tariffs on some of America's largest trading partners that many economists say would raise prices for American consumers. Can you guarantee American families won't pay more?

I can't guarantee anything. I can't guarantee tomorrow. But I can say that if you look at my just pre-COVID, we had the greatest economy in the history of our country. And I had a lot of tariffs on a lot of different countries, but in particular China, we took in hundreds of billions of dollars and we had no inflation. I can't guarantee anything. The president-elect striking a cautious tone on prices after the election. Let's recap what he said about this topic and the border on the campaign trail.

But prices will come down. You just watch. They'll come down and they'll come down fast, not only with insurance, with everything. As president, I will seal the border. I will send them all back to their countries where they belong. Prices will come down and come down dramatically and come down fast.

All right. Our panel is back. Lulu, I want to start with what he said about immigration and families and deporting people together. Those comments seem to suggest he is willing to do that, which would, of course, involve American citizens. Is that not... I mean...

- Illegal? - Yes. - Yes. - I think the word you were looking for is illegal. Also, by the way, birthright citizenship. I mean, what he said, this is something that very much the Trump administration wants to enact. They tried to do it in their first term. This is something that is a big thing that they want to try to stop because they see it as a way of changing the demographics of this country. And so,

Birthright citizenship, to be clear, is something that is protected in the Constitution. So that would require not just a sort of waving of the presidential wand, but something like

going to Congress, getting two-thirds of the states to ratify it. I mean, it's a big thing to shift. So we'll see what the plan is, but that's going to be very hard. Also, deporting American citizens, not legal. Matt Gorman, clearly Americans said in the campaign they think immigration is a problem, the border is a problem. But where do you think is the line? I mean, how far do you think Americans will tolerate President-elect Trump going on this?

First of all, I'm having flashbacks to you at the Iowa State Fair asking Scott Walker if he would end birthright citizenship back in August 2015. You better remember that. I remember that very well. I remember sitting in a jump-push headquarters. It was a problem for him, I think. It was a problem because this has been talked about for a while. And surprisingly, not a ton on the campaign at least this time around. Look,

I am fascinated to see, right? I think very clearly Trump has political capital to spend on immigration and the economy. And so what do those first bills look like? What do those first executive action look like?

look like? Is that political capital there to fight for a constitutional amendment on birthright citizenship? Now look, there's a little bit of debate on the right whether or not it can be done by executive action or constitutional amendment, but that's a major, major step. So I am really interested to see as these bills come together,

how they actually go about this. Yeah. All right. I want to turn now to another moment from Trump's NBC interview yesterday. While Donald Trump repeated his desire for former Congresswoman Liz Cheney and others to go to jail for their work on the January 6th committee, Trump did distance himself from one promise of retribution, saying this about his prior threats to go after the Biden family.

You said President Biden, quote, that you're going to appoint a real special prosecutor to go after Joe Biden. You said that during the campaign. Where did I say that? Where? You said that on Truth Social, June 12th, 2023. I will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after the most corrupt president in the history of the United States, Joe Biden, and the entire Biden crime family. Are you going to do that? Are you going to go after Joe Biden? I'm really looking to make our country successful. I'm not looking to go back into the past.

All right. Joining us now, former advisor to George W. Bush, John McCain, Mark McKinnon. He's the creator of Paramount's The Circus. Mark, it's Monday, so it's wonderful to see you. Thank you for being here. What's your response there to what Trump said? Because, I mean, honestly, there was a significant difference in tone and approach when he was asked directly about the Biden family and when he was asked about January 6th.

Listen, Casey, good morning. I think the best stance is to expect the worst. There's two approaches here. There's the Bobby McFerrin, the musician's approach, which is don't worry, be happy, which I think a lot of people did in 2016. Or to adopt the John McCain approach, which is his philosophy was it's always darkest just before it goes completely black.

Trump campaigned on this notion that I will be your retribution. And what he said also in that interview about going after the people on the January 6th committee, that should send chills down everybody's spine. And listen, Trump doesn't really have a political ideology. If he has an ideology, it's loyalty. And that's what's different this time, too. He's not coming in with a bunch of broken toys. He has people who know what they're doing.

And the people that he turns and listens to now is not like Mitch McConnell like he did in 2016. It's the mega iron triangle of Steve Bannon, Tucker Carlson and Charlie Kirk. That's where he's getting his. And just look at Pete Hagseth right now. That's, you know, the fact that he's still alive says a lot. And I think there's a very good chance he'll now be confirmed. And so that's that's what it's all about now. It's simply incredible.

You know, does it meet the loyalty test? And just expect Donald Trump to do what he said he was going to do during the campaign because MAGA is going to turn up the heat if he doesn't.

So, Mark, one of the other things that, of course, Trump has said during the campaign involves Ukraine. I mean, he has said that he is going to end the fighting there. He was actually we can show everybody what this looked like. Pretty striking image. He was with Emmanuel Macron and Vladimir Zelensky over in France. Of course, they were attending meetings.

the reopening of Notre Dame. And there you can see the two of them together. There's also this kind of photo spray of the three of them standing there. And, you know, Trump did talk a little bit about what he said. He said, OK, Zelensky wants to end this war. What did you make of how this played out? Well, I mean, Biden is still president of the United States, obviously. He's going to be, you know, until January 20th. But

This is obviously, you know, they're getting ready for him to come in here. Considering especially also the events in Syria, what does this all mean? Well, I think it means a lot. And don't tell Trump that he's not president yet. I think the most significant changes we may see immediately are the impact on American foreign policy. And it's striking that Trump is it's such a departure from from John McCain and from Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush and the typical Republican history here.

of embracing our allies, Trump's approach is America first. And it's going to be fascinating to watch what happens with Syria because there's going to be a huge vacuum here if America doesn't step in. And others are going to fill it. If we're not there, then others will fill it. So we're going to see the direct impact on a national stage of the Trump presidency immediately because of what's happening with Syria.

All right. Mark McKinnon for us this morning. Sir, thanks very much for being with us. I always love having your perspective. See you soon. Thank you, Casey. Thank you. All right. So top advisers for both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris's campaign met to discuss the election at Harvard's Institute of Politics over the weekend. But according to Harris's chief of staff,

Their campaign was flawless. Quote, I would posit she ran a pretty flawless campaign. She did all the steps that were required to be successful. This is something that Sheila Nix said at this gathering. Trump campaign co-chief Chris LaCivita rebuked the idea that Harris ran a flawless campaign. LaCivita said this, flawless campaigns don't

Our panel is back. Now, Matt Gorman, for people who are not familiar, every election cycle, the Harvard Institute of Politics gathers the top campaign managers from both teams, in this case, of course, Trump and Harris. It's moderated by reporters. It's designed to be a report for history of how it all unfolded. I was there in 2016. I mean, it is a fascinating room to be in.

you were there, kind of take us inside because it really, I mean, this word flawless stuck out to me because, as La Cevita says, a flawless campaign isn't a losing campaign. What was the

Energy-like. So the way it broke down, it was Thursday night, there's a dinner when everyone comes to campus. And every campaign from both primary, I was there representing the Tim Scott folks, and the general folks like Kamala or Biden, gives their theory of the race for about five minutes to stand up and they say how they could have won. And so this flawless comment came during that.

And it's in the middle of dinner. You're sitting at your table. And then when that word was said, everybody just kind of looked at each other and were like, did she just say flawless?

And then of course it became a little bit of a mocking thing for the rest of the day. So when Lasavita said that was Friday during the larger panel and it really did belie, Harris' campaign was very defensive still as we saw from their multiple interviews. It continued on. Megan, it does seem, I mean, the narrative that seems to be emerging from the Harris team now is that, well, this was inevitable. There was basically nothing we could have done. Do you think that's right?

No, I don't think that's right. And I also think that having some contrition would go a long way with the voters. And I think that when you are trying to rebuild a party, maybe saying that we did some things wrong would go a long way heading into the midterms, into the next cycle, presidential cycle. But I think that it's hard right now so close to be a little bit more introspective. So it'll be interesting to see how this evolves over time and how their opinion of the race evolves over time.

What they say in private and what they say in public are two different things, which is what's annoying, I think, as reporters, because we know that to be true. So I think if they said in public what they say in private, it would be better for everyone. Yeah, I don't think this helps in terms of trust in institutions. Yes, presidential campaigns aren't exactly the most important institution, but it does suggest that...

Democrats in the Harris campaign haven't quite figured out why they lost or if they have, they're not talking about it. And that doesn't seem good for the party to kind of try to move forward and figure out 2028. In fact, 2026 is not that far away. They've got to figure out what their party is going to look like in the next two, four years and how they're going to respond to Donald Trump's administration. And Tim Walz said he was stunned.

I mean, in interviews with the local press in Minnesota. But he was surprised. And by the way, they spent $1.5 billion with a B on something that they really thought it was an element that they couldn't have won. Right. And I also just don't think that they want to look yet. And I think that that's going to be the problem heading into 26 because the Democrats have a lot to do to move voters heading into the midterms. Yeah, they do. All right. Thanks, guys. Really appreciate it. Thanks to all of you at home for joining us as well. I'm Casey Hunt. Don't go anywhere. CNN News Central starts right now.

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