A Response to James Lindsay
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What's up, everybody? Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem. I am Dave Smith. He is Robbie the Fire Bernstein. Happy Thanksgiving to everybody. I'm sure some of you guys are traveling around, and this will be something maybe you listen to on the way to Turkey Day. Hope everybody has a good time on Thanksgiving, a great American holiday where we celebrate the...

What is it? Pilgrims and the Indians all had dinner together. Everything looked cool. And then that's where we end the story. And then we eat a big bird. I don't know. Pretty good to me. I've always loved the story of Thanksgiving because everyone knows it goes real bad after that dinner, which I'm not sure if any of this is historically accurate. I don't know if any of it happened. But...

It's a nice way to just be like, yeah, but remember we all broke bread that one time. Yada, yada, yada. There's not too much of you left anymore. Anyway, we're going to have a big meal. Do love Thanksgiving though. Anything that is just a time to just have a big meal with people you love, I always think is important. So I hope you guys have a good one. What are you doing, Rob?

Um, I, uh, I like Thanksgiving. It's real easy. My family does lunch. I roll up at 11, have a couple of drinks, play in the yard with the kids, take a nap and that's it. That's the day. It's easy. It is. There is something amazing about the holiday where there's no expectation that you have to buy anyone anything.

Like, I'm just coming to have a whiskey at 1 p.m. and not feel weird about that. Okay. And I don't have to go to synagogue. I don't have to sit through a Passover story. I get to sit down, enjoy the family without any of that stuff. So Thanksgiving is a big win for this guy. Are your is your family still like real serious? Like with the Passover Seder? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that's rough. It's brutal. I mean, I was never my family was never as religious as yours. So they would we would do like, you know, like a concise Seder, one of those, you know, like reform books that they give you. So you get through it real quick. But I remember going to like, a couple times I went to like friends houses who were like, either like, Orthodox or what's the one in the middle called the ones who aren't reformed but aren't Orthodox? Conservative? Yeah.

Yeah, I think that might be. I think that might be right. But anyway, this I go into that. But man, I mean, I remember literally like the way they put the food in front of you and then just read for another hour. And I remember being like nine and actually like...

had like my mouth watering, like staring at this food. Like I'm so hungry. It was like, like I remember at nine years old or whatever, like making the connection that I was like, oh, is that what they're doing in those cartoons? You know, like you're not like, I never actually had my mouth watering before because I was so hungry. Like your mouth is literally just getting ready to just be like, please insert that food in me. I didn't mean to make this a sexual thing, but the point is just,

Hey, religious Jews, too much reading. Read after dinner. Why not? Yeah, makes way more sense. Why would it be a problem to think about the plight of Jewish slaves in Egypt after the meal? I wouldn't care if you read for six hours after the meal, just not before.

Just my advice, but we'll see. Okay. A lot of stuff to talk about today. I want to just start real quick by saying that because there was a lot of, you know, people noticed one of our episodes got taken down off of YouTube. It was the last episode with Scott Horton. Yeah.

It was unclear at first what the issue was. It seems to have been cleared up, seems like it was a mistake and that this episode should be back up on YouTube later today. But we did post it over on X, so it's up now and live. People can go see it over there. It's also on Rumble and Spotify and iTunes and all the other places where you can typically get the podcast.

I will say, and just to be clear, it seems the situation is resolved, but there is something really cool where I have just, I got texts and messages on Twitter and comments from like a ton of people with huge platforms.

Patrick Bet-David texted me like, I mean, I don't think it was five minutes after I posted that it got taken down from YouTube. David Sachs and a bunch, just a bunch of people. I don't want to name everyone because I'm going to miss it. But a bunch of people were all kind of like, oh, what's going on here? And I was just thinking like there is it almost felt to me like, yeah,

i don't know there felt like something kind of profoundly beautiful and libertarian about the whole thing like it's almost like if someone in your community needed a surgery and everybody's like crowdfunding money for it like obviously it's not a situation like that but there does seem to be this like almost like counter economics this like kind of counter force to the internet censorship where as soon as anybody even smells

That somebody got censored there. It's like a bunch of people rallying around them to try to be like Oh, we're gonna counter this and I just just wanted to thank everybody Particularly patch bit David and David Sachs and several other people It's just like I thought there was something really cool about that and it just it makes me feel much better about where we are in the battle against tech censorship and obviously, you know

Look, the fact that Elon Musk bought Twitter and now we're in a situation where even if that does end up happening and it wasn't just a misunderstanding like this appears to be, it's just cool that there's at least like, okay, there's at least a feeling of like, well, we could go do it there and still be able to get our voice out. So thank you to everybody, including big thank you to Elon Musk for participating.

buying Twitter for $44 billion. That was really cool that you were able to move some money around and make that available. Anyway, that's all. I'm curious to see what the numbers look like on Twitter.

Yeah, that'll be interesting. And maybe that's just what we will do going forward, regardless of the situation. Not sure about that yet. Got to think about it and make a decision. Okay, the other thing that we should lead the show with today is that the new director of the National Institute of Health was named, and it is Jay Bhattacharya. I cannot...

I cannot stress how profoundly pleased I am with this pick. Jay Bhattacharya, for people who don't know, is, I mean, was just...

heroic during COVID. I mean, like absolutely phenomenal. The guy is a genius, is totally brilliant. People in our audience might know him because he was one of the signatures of the Great Barrington Declaration. He also wrote the foreword for Tom Wood's book,

Diary of a Psychosis, the book that I keep telling everyone is the best book on the COVID insanity. Jay Bhattacharya, the director of the NIH for the next one, hopefully, he wrote the forward to that book. This guy was one of my best resources through COVID, really helping me understand COVID.

this stuff. Him and... God, I hope I'm not butchering his name, but Rav Arora, the two of them did a few phenomenal podcasts together where Jay Bhattacharya was just... He's one of these guys who's...

He's good at explaining the stuff that we're not smart enough to understand to people like us. But he would go through like a lot of these studies that the COVID lunatics would use as like, see, this is proof that the vaccine saved so many lives. And he would just do a great job of just tearing them down and being like, no, here are the seven flaws in this study. And this is why this doesn't actually prove anything. And he was just really one of the...

one of the most important sane voices in an insane time. And the fact that he's got Fauci's old job just warms my heart. I mean, I just can't say enough great things about that. Any thoughts you want to add to that, Rob?

It's a very promising flip from what we experienced through the COVID regime and all the censorship that existed during that time and the possibility of actually educating the public to the degree by which government will lie to you for its own interests. I still think it would be very cleansing to see Fauci prosecuted. I think if we ever get there, he'll suddenly have dimension. We'll see what we saw with Mueller. I don't think we're going to quite get that.

But to see such a massive flip of voices being censored off the Internet during the covid regime. And he wrote the Great Barrington Declaration, which was essentially, from what I remember, we don't have to shut down the country, but it does make sense to protect the elderly. I remember seeing him in, I think, a number of congressional hearings as a congressman.

Hey, why am I being censored? I'm a Stanford scientist and I understand these things. And here's some information that they're not giving you. So I think it's very refreshing. I'm sure it's alarming to some of the powers that be to see this massive flip of the people that were dangerous victims.

to have on the internet to possibly be giving you information now in these actual powerful positions. So it seems, listen, I get excited for these storylines. Go after Fauci, put this guy in charge. Let's get all the information about who in the NIH gets payments from what pharmaceutical companies. Let's get the entire, who's that other guy at the NIH who I remember once in a congressional hearing just validating that payments are made but made no other statements?

Well, wasn't it Fauci? No, it was Fauci. And then there's another guy, Fauci's guys. There's two other like high ups at the NIH, but I can't remember their names right now. Anyways, promising sign of the new administration coming in and maybe actually cleaning up the mess. And it definitely seems like a win for free speech. So.

like do you remember the moment which is was still up there as one of the most like incredible slash infuriating moments of the covet insanity but do you remember when rand paul i guess i think i think it was through a foia act

that he had gotten essentially the raw number of how much money was paid out to scientists at the NIH from big pharmaceutical companies. It was something insane. Like, I think it was over $100 million. And he goes to Fauci and he goes, will you, like, disclose how much money you've made from big pharmaceutical companies? And he's like, you know, we get royalties sometimes. I think one of the checks I got was for $17, right?

And he's like, okay, but that's one. Will you disclose all of them? And then Fauci just straight up goes, well, the law doesn't say that I have to. So if you want to change the law, go ahead. And you're just like watching it like, yo, you can't even just tell me whether or not you've made like enormous sums of money from the pharmaceutical companies whose product you are pushing. Then he's just essentially like, no, no.

Not gonna do that.

It's like that. So anyway, it's just, you know, if you understand the levels of corruption that exists at the NIH, it is really amazing to have someone who's outside of that corruption and a critic of that corruption to come be the boss there. Again, we'll see. I'm not, you know, I've been accused by some of like trying to sell Trump as something that he's not or overstating how great this is. Listen, I agree.

it is quite an undertaking to clean up a corrupt government agency all I'm saying is putting someone good at the top is a hell of a lot better than not and so that's you know I'll say this just more broadly this is better than rehiring Fauci right I mean you can literally have had uh Kamala Harris come in and say you know what we got to rehire Fauci did a great job they could do that I think Fauci's unpopular enough that they probably wouldn't but they could

Or somebody else who is exactly the same as Fauci, which is what typically happens in these situations and has to some degree happened with Trump's appointments. And he says, oh, I won't put Pompeo or Nikki Haley in, but then puts in Waltz and Rubio, which is the same thing. So it very easily could have been that. I'll say this, man. Overall, I'm...

I feel quite comfortable and happy with the decision I made to ultimately support Trump in this election. If I could go back at right now, I'd do the same thing again. And it's not because I was ever selling to anyone that Donald Trump has figured it out. He knows all the mistakes he made last time, and he's going to be spot on this time. That's not the claim at all.

Um, Donald Trump, now that the cabinet has basically been picked, of course, by the way, I should say this with the asterisks of like, um, we still have to get through Senate confirmations and it's Donald Trump, which means that in the next 30, 60, 90 days, any one of these people could be fired and he could be talking about how little and stupid they are and then replace them with someone else. So who knows? But as of right now, he appointed some awful foreign policy picks. Um,

really, really bad. Waltz is a disaster. Rubio is a disaster. Pete Hegseth is a little bit of a question mark to me. I'm not sure. He's certainly not good on Israel, but he has said some pretty good things on Ukraine. And he has also just said some things over the years that indicate to me that he's a somewhat honest guy who will talk about things that are controversial that normally you're not supposed to speak about. Um, specifically, um,

there was one interview i saw him in years ago i don't know if i ever told you this rob but i know pete hegseth not well um but i've met him before at uh at fox news we've done panels together and stuff years ago and anyway i always liked him he's always a really nice guy and we've we've gone like grabbed a beer after a show together and stuff and like i always thought he was a good guy very smart guy um

He there was this one interview that he was on on Fox News and this was years ago. I mean this might have been 2016 or something like that and he was They were talking about Afghanistan and his service in Afghanistan and he just went off on a whole thing about how the warlords that were propping up over there in Afghanistan have this habit of raping boys and

And how all the soldiers are furious about it. And they were put in a position where they're not allowed to do anything about it. And this is something that we know about this, but never gets brought up on Fox News of all places. And I was just like, whoa, that's actually really incredible that he...

like got into this.

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So anyway, a little bit of a question mark with him. We'll see how that goes. There's been some other bad picks in there. But at least as of right now, getting Tulsi at the director of national intelligence, getting Bobby Kennedy as the head of health and human services, and now getting Jay Bhattacharya at the NIH. Listen, these are just undeniable wins. And there was only one

There was only one scenario where we got any wins like this, and that was Donald Trump winning. That's it. If Kamala Harris had won, we get zero wins. Of course, she's now reduced to being a

a drunk aunt on the internet. But there's, you know, we get no, and if we had just all voted third party, then we get no wins out of that either. So this is something. And of course, all of that is without mentioning Doge, which is still a big question mark. We don't know exactly how this is going to work. But I will say that if nothing else,

having Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy with Ron Paul as an advisor to them, at the very least, they are inserting this most important issue of the size and scope of government, of cutting government spending. They're inserting that back into the public conversation. And again, this just never happens with anyone else. The only reason why we're getting this is because Donald Trump won.

Would it be better if Ron Paul had won and a super majority of the American people had embraced liberty and rejected statism? Yes, that would be better. That option was not on the table.

Would it have been better if a Ron Paul-like figure had run on the Libertarian Party and lost but gotten four or five million votes and really started a huge conversation and really opened up a lot of people's eyes to the view of individual human liberty and laissez-faire free markets and non-interventionist foreign policy? Would that have been better?

If that happened and then Kamala Harris won, debatably, like debatably, maybe, I really don't know, maybe that would have ultimately been better. But that wasn't in the cards either because we didn't have a Libertarian candidate who was capable of doing that. So in this scenario, this just seems like the undeniable right way to play it. That's how I feel looking back at it. Anyway, I am just...

it was very very nice to get another excellent pick another excellent one not just like a decent one this one was really excellent jay badacharya and bobby kennedy in there yeah man this is uh it's shaping up in a weird way to be the closest we could have really possibly imagined

of repudiation of the COVID insanity. And obviously, Donald Trump has a lot of blood on his hands about that. I mean, he did a very bad job in 2020. But at the same time, given the options that we had, I don't know who else was going to pick Bobby Kennedy and Jay Bhattacharya.

It's a promising start. And it does seem like Donald Trump can be fairly influenced by who is around him. I think that's what happened with the Syria war with Rand Paul. Rand Paul was able to get his ear and talk him back from that. This was the last time he was president. But I think Bobby Kennedy being in there certainly influenced this pick. And so it's nice to see that some of the better names that have made his way into the administration are, you know, influencing some better picks.

Yeah. Yeah. No, 100%. I just couldn't, I could not agree with that more. And again, it's just, you know, this is, this is, I mean, look, it's kind of can't be overstated that like, I mean, just imagine like two years ago.

I had suggested to you, Rob, that Bobby Kennedy was going to be the head of HHS and Jay Bhattacharya was going to be the head of the NIH. You'd have been like, wait, what world are we living in here? Like, did we win the presidency? Like these are these are literally what our picks for these positions would have been. I mean, Bobby Kennedy wrote a book during the most censored period ever about how Dr. Fauci is actually a mass murderer.

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And like, it seems, and again, I, you know, I made this point, I did like a Twitter spaces where I was arguing with some libertarians who didn't, you know, agree with me supporting Donald Trump. And like, a bunch of them go, this is a real problem libertarians have, but a bunch of them go, they go, well, Bobby Kennedy is not a libertarian. And you're like, yeah, obviously. But by the way, half of you motherfuckers fell for this shit.

Half of you guys weren't even good on this when it mattered, including the National Party at the time. And so Bobby Kennedy was. That's more important to me than some ideological purity test or something like that. It's like, oh, we actually got that guy. And also, the other thing I'll say about Bobby, and this is from someone who, look, I...

I had him on the show and we really argued pretty intensely with each other. And I was highly critical of him on his positions toward Israel. And again, I stand by that because I think he was bad on that stuff. But Bobby Kennedy, like talk about a guy who had it made. You know what I mean? Like just had, had,

Look, I don't want to say he has life on easy mode because all of us have our problems. Obviously, he's had a pretty serious neurological issue and doesn't have a voice. I have arms inside my head. Yeah, listen, I'm not like... They talk to me. That's a real struggle, okay? So I'm not trying to downplay that.

And of course he's had like, which he's been quite open about like substance addiction. - I love heroin. - Right.

We love Bobby Kennedy here, okay? But like so okay, so he's had these but I'm just saying he's a member of what is as close to a royal family in the United States of America as you get he's married to a beloved Hollywood actress he is a guy who is in all of the exclusive cocktail parties and in that scene and he made himself a pariah of

in that world to stand up and talk about what he wanted to talk about. That's just undeniably impressive and courageous. And so like, okay, that's one of the things that gets me excited because that's a real test of like, do you have principles? Are you willing to stand up for something when it's very difficult and will cost you tangible things in order to do this? And he's a guy who's done that.

That is that's impressive to me. And it makes me think this is a guy who might actually do the right thing when there's real stakes involved. All right. And I'm just going to I'm just going to throw something crazy into the world because sometimes that's what you have to do. But there's been chatter that they're going to change up the press room and potentially remove access from some mainstream media organizations and allow access for new media. And Dave Smith, I think you should pull some pull some strings and get me in that room.

let me be the dc correspondent uh go down there midweek we'll write up some questions we'll do it uh maybe stuttering john style i won't always take the administration side but until i get thrown out of that room let's have a little fun see yeah it's really great uh rob bernstein potp uh i've noticed it's a lot less gay in here than it was last year what'd you guys do with all the gays

Oh, yeah. No, we could do it. We'll make some stuff happen. We'll see. Listen, there's some possibilities in this brave new world that we're living in, and we're going to try to maximize the entertainment and the truth that comes out of all of it. Okay.

Will the new panel consider hanging Dr. Fauci? I brought some medieval torture devices with me that I'd like to be considered if I could. It's my time. Excuse me, the president called on me. Please don't interrupt.

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Okay, so let's move on because I did assure some people that I would deal with this on today's episode. So for those of you guys who follow me on Twitter, I've been in a bit of a Twitter feud with this fellow named James Lindsay. This, by the way, well, let me just say, because I saw, you know,

James, he's been tweeting some insulting stuff at me. And I did see just before I started here that he tweeted that he would never debate me because the bridge has been burned and he only debates people he respects and he no longer respects me, which is an awfully convenient view. But I think probably if I was James Lindsay, that's a wise choice on his part. So for the record,

Me and Lindsay were I mean we never like we're friends or anything like that, but we were cool We followed each other on Twitter and we had messaged back and forth a few times over the years the beef Started because when I was on Tucker Carlson show last I think it was the last time I was on I had said something about how I thought it was stupid that Donald Trump kept referring to Kamala Harris as a communist and

That's essentially where it started. James Lindsay took offense to this and started rambling about how I don't know what I'm talking about and I haven't done the research and all of this stuff. The truth is this.

And he's been very insulting to me on Twitter. So I just kind of, you know, like I'm not exactly going to partake in that. Maybe I will. Whatever. But I do feel a little like unhandcuffed at this point to just tell the truth. And here's the truth.

James Lindsay is one of these guys who, much like Sam Harris, it's a very similar dynamic where a lot of people will say, oh, man, this guy used to be great. And now he just sucks. You know, like what happened to this guy? And I hate to be the guy to break it to you, but he didn't used to be great.

It's much like Sam Harris. There's this weird dynamic that happens a lot where it's like people go, oh, this guy used to be great, but now he's terrible. And it's like, no, no, no, no. You woke up. That's what happened. You woke up and now you recognize how bad he is now. But he was always this bad. This is the truth. James Lindsay was a novelty act. He was fun. If you guys don't remember, he kind of burst onto the scene by trolling like a woke guy.

college journals. So him and a buddy of his, they like actually what they would do is they would like almost like what Stephen Colbert used to do on the Colbert Report. If you remember, he would like he would play a character as George W. Bush's number one fan. But the whole time he was really mocking George Bush. And that was kind of his shtick. So they basically did that.

They submitted a bunch of articles for these scientific journals that were going along with the woke insanity, but taking it to such a cartoonishly insane level that it kind of exposed the whole thing. And they really got published. So like one of the things they did was, um,

they, and I'm remembering this, it was years ago, but it's something close to this. One of them was they actually took Mein Kampf and took out the word Jew and inserted straight white men and then got a section of it published. That's pretty great. Because these woke college professors will actually sign off on that. And then one of them was that they studied the habits of dogs at dog parks and talked about rape culture amongst dogs.

And like this actually- - Important research. - Yes, they got these things published. So it was great, it was a lot of fun. It's like you're trolling these dummies and it was great. So that stuff he was good at and then it was fun. The problem is that he was good at trolling this retarded nonsense, but his work is garbage.

Just absolute garbage. It's just all terrible. It's all just nonsense theories about how Maoism took over the United States of America, and he can't back it up at all. And then he's gone hard in on this woke right thing.

the stuff that we've responded to Konstantin Kassin on before. And anyway, so he got very offended that I kind of poked holes in his dumb shit. And I wasn't even talking about him. I was just kind of saying like, no, this idea that they're all secret communists is really stupid and there's no evidence to support it. And it makes you sound like a loon when you say it. So anyway, he took a, he took offense to this and then we've gone back and forth a bit and it's, I,

I think actually been kind of fascinating and revealing the latest thing that he went back and forth. I mean, it's almost like it just proves my point. I'll read this tweet. It's like in this argument that we've been having that we had with Konstantin Kassin and now I'm having with James Lindsay about like who the woke right really is.

It's almost like they're only like you only have to prod them once or twice before they just admit it. This is I'm not making this up. Try to imagine that this guy is actually out there doing shows about who the woke right are. And this is what. So earlier today, when I posted that our our video got taken down off YouTube for violating community standards, he he chimes in and says like, oh,

I don't know, something about, oh, you're just ranting. And Tom Woods asked him, he said, so you're saying he should get kicked off YouTube for this ranting or whatever? And then he responds by saying, I believe this is a typo. He said he wants, but I believe he meant to say he rants. He said he rants about Jews on a site that doesn't permit ranting about Jews. We don't live in should land. We live in hell. And yes, I know he's Jew-ish, right?

and he separated the word to like make the old dumb joke i'm kind of a jew or something like that now first of all we i had scott on to talk about his book about russia and ukraine second of all

When do we ever rant about the Jews? We're a show hosted by two Jews. We've never like expressed a hostility or anything toward Jewish people. I am a critic of the government of Israel. So this is already you're conflating criticizing a government policy with being a bigot. Who does that remind you of, Rob?

Who is known for this? Oh, wait a minute, hold on. So I somehow lose my Jewishness. I'm not really a Jew now because I don't have the right political opinions. Hmm. Who does that remind you of? Who criticizes black conservatives that way and calls them Uncle Toms and says you're not really black anymore? You know what I mean? It's...

Joe Biden, if you don't vote for me, you're not black. The LA Times, Larry Elder is the black face of white supremacy. It's like they just immediately take the woke left's playbook. This is just the exact same thing. And I do appreciate him saying it because it's just like there. It's just kind of naked and blatant for everyone to see. This is what you're doing. So anyway...

Because he went at me, and by the way, in a very bizarre way. He did at one point, he started like, I think, attacking me for being skinny.

like he was like oh you need to live better than being fat well yeah this is the weirdest thing ever he just started going you got to lift some weights dude let's do shoulder day and it's like dude this won't debate you but i'll do shoulder day with you well it would be cringy and lame if like a dude in good shape just started talking about that like i just my mind would never in a million years in one of these like political debates go to like making fun of a guy because he needs to work out more or something

James Lindsley is just an out of shape guy. Like, it was just like such a bizarre, he's like, oh, you need to do shoulder day. Like, dude, you need to do tits. Like, you don't even need, you don't lay off the shoulders, dude. Do tits day a few times. Like, anyway, so it's just very bizarre. But here is, let's play this. And again, it is from the Trigonometry podcast. But I will say, I know we've done quite a bit of responses to Trigonometry lately, but also Trigonometry

it does kind of make sense because what am I going to do? Responses to MSNBC? No one watches that shit anymore. Just because I'm a dummy and I'm a little confused. So does James Lindsay like anti-Semites as long as they have nice shoulders? I guess. I guess if you're going to do it. Listen.

We all prefer the anti-Semites with nice shoulders to the ones without. So I'm not going to blame them for that. But anyway, Trigonometry is a very popular show and a lot of people are watching it. And I think it's popular for good reason. I like Constantine. I think he and his partner, I think they put on a good show. I apologize for blanking on his name. I think they put on a good show. And I do really genuinely appreciate...

that no matter how much I think me and Constantine may disagree, there is a mutual respect and like a kind of cordial nature to the disagreement. That's not exactly the case with James Lindsay. But anyway, let's get into this thing. I don't even think we'll spend as much time on this one as we normally do because this stuff's just kind of easy to swat down. But this is here. Let's just play it. Is the debate between you and Constantine ever going to happen?

You know, he I think he had recently expressed that like, oh, yeah, we'll still we'll make it happen. And I certainly am on the same page. I'll actually reach out to them. I'll make sure I do that by the end of the week. Let's do Thanksgiving and that. Oh, they're British. They don't celebrate Thanksgiving. You know what? I'll reach out today. All right. Let's play.

And James, you mentioned the term woke right. It's a term you and I have both used. But it'd be interesting to talk about it for a number of reasons. But first of all, what do you mean by that term? Because a lot of people are very confused about it. Yeah, it's not necessarily the best term.

It's more accurate. I don't use the word woke too... I use it a little too casually still, generally speaking. But I've tried to be very specific when it comes to it, to use the phrase woke Marxism, as in that it's a species of Marxist thought, yada, yada, yada. So we can very easily place that on the Marxist left, right? Well, what...

Woke right, another term that might work for that is woke fascism. And just like woke Marxism is technically woke neo-Marxism, this could be called woke neo-fascism. Why is it woke? Well, that's what I wanted to get to. So there are kind of two ways to look at why it's woke. And one is kind of philosophical and one is practical. Practical side is look at how they behave.

They behave exactly like the woke. There's the targeted influence campaigns. There's the manufacturing of what the postmodern is called legitimation by parology or whatever. They create the illusion that there's massive support for this and massive distaste for that using social media manipulations like we just talked about.

They are highly invested in identity politics. The answer for them to leftist identity politics is a reaction identity politics or reactionary identity politics equal and opposite or in biblical terms answering evil with evil. Right here.

You got to help me out here because I don't know what the fuck he's talking about. Well, this is one of the things that James Lindsay does, which is, by the way, really identical to the postmodernists. And by the way, this is something that everybody should, you should develop like a radar for this. There are people who try very hard to sound intelligent.

Like that is their concern is let me sound like a smart guy so that you almost go, oh, I guess this smart guy must have figured something out, even though he's saying nothing. He's just saying absolutely nothing. It is. This is what Kamala Harris's presidential campaign was. Right. Just always try to sound like you're saying. Let me relabel this thing and break it into these two categories. But this category is not quite like this category. So let's relabel it again. We'll do another separation next.

But let me state clearly. Right. Listen, this is the thing, okay? Focus and in general, like there's a difference between people. And look, I say this, whatever flaws that I may have, I think people who listen to the show know I'm about the argument. That's my central thing is that I'm about like, hey, this is an argument that I think is a very strong argument. This is an argument that I think is a weak argument.

What argument is James Lindsay even attempting to make here? Like, who are you talking about? What are you saying? Who is manipulating the social media algorithms? Who is faking that they have support that they don't really have? You know, Constantine, to his credit at least, when he was talking about the woke right, he named some people.

He named some people. He named Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens, I think Darrell Cooper. I can't remember who else, but he named some people. Okay? So then you can actually... Are Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens manipulating social media to give the impression that they're popular when they're really not? Good luck. If that's your argument, good luck winning that argument. Oh, but you won't actually make that because you don't really have an argument. And then, of course...

He goes to this claim of identity politics. Well, there is no way in hell that you can say Tucker Carlson is guilty of playing identity politics. This just makes no sense at all. His entire thing has always been that he hates racialist collectivism on any side. And he just does not like that. That has always been his position. There is like... And again...

i mean if you're going to talk about identity politics just imagine right imagine this rob i'm going to give you two views and you tell me how it is possible to not see the contradiction in these two views okay here are the two views rob i am opposed to identity politics that's view number one number two i support zionism tell me how you can possibly hold those two views and not see the obvious contradiction

I believe in a government for a particular identity group.

but I oppose identity politics. Zionism is the definition of identity politics. And listen, I'll say this, I've never been a guy who really rants against identity politics because it's kind of a slippery definition and there could be some identity politics that I would have absolutely no problem with. I'll give you an example. Maj Ture, he runs a group called Black Guns Matter. I have no problem with that whatsoever.

It is clearly identitarian. He's talking about how there's been kind of like a racist history behind gun control legislation and that it's often black people who are in these high crime areas, the law abiding black people who need the Second Amendment the most. Now, that is identitarian.

but it's also just fighting for gun rights and for getting government out of the way of people's right to defend themselves so i have no problem with that at all and i don't even in theory have a problem with zionism i don't have a problem with if there's a group of jewish people who want to start a society together and they want it to be explicitly for jewish people i'd have no problem with that listen if if jews had say

purchased the land legitimately from Arabs and not violated the natural rights of the Arab population there, I wouldn't really have a problem with it.

However, if you're going to support Zionism, don't give me this BS about how you're against identity politics. That just doesn't make any sense, okay? Like, I imagine, Rob, you would agree with me too, right? That if there was a group of, say, black nationalists or white nationalists or Jewish nationalists or Italian nationalists or whatever, and they wanted to, by peaceful means, voluntarily purchase some land

and go live as they please on that land, me and you have no problem with that. I mean, you know, do you. We don't necessarily wanna join your group, but like you have a right to do that. But don't do that and tell me you're against identity politics because that's what it is. You're an identitarian, like, okay, fine.

Anyway, so again, it's just throughout this entire argument about the woke right. It's like, stop doing this like Gish Gallop nonsense. Give me very clear what your principles are and then apply them equally to all of these different groups. Because again, you're like just today, James Lindsay is attacking me on identitarian grounds that I'm Jewish because I rant against the Jews. You're the identitarian, dude, not us.

right let's keep playing the bible says not to do by the way uh very specifically and so there's there's this you know grievance identity everything's bad for white christian men straight white christian men we're the oppressed minority under this there's an ideology and this kind of bleeds into the the philosophical idea but we'll get more specific with that in a second um

There's this kind of belief that there's this ruling class that's erected an ideology to marginalize people like them. That sounds very much like woke, except instead of saying that it's like the white people create the white ruling class created white supremacy to marginalize people of color, especially black and indigenous and their ways of knowing from getting inside the woke right or the woke fascist side says instead that following World War Two on the back of

of Hitler and the idea of never again, there was erected a post-war liberal consensus.

starting in the 1940s immediately starting in 1945 the creation of the united nations was part of this the signing on to the other nations as part of this they assigned william buckley to uh bill buckley to having done a route to drive the true conservatives to the margins so that a false post-war liberal consensus conservative movement could rise up the neocons and hold them out so the neocons become this um

A kind of hegemonic force within the conservative faction that edges out so-called true conservatism and these more dangerous, so to speak, ideas like fascist ideas, like Carl Schmitt's ideas about unbound executives and friend enemy politics and so on, that these ideas all had to be pushed to the side.

on the pretext that World War II or a Adolf Hitler can never rise again. And so therefore, the true conservatives who represented conservative politics and kept at bay the beast of the left, which they say is the right's true function, is to keep at bay the left. In other words, to have a war, right versus left, with everybody in the middle, I guess, taking fire in the crossfire. But...

They believe that this post-war liberal consensus in the neoconservative movement literally was designed to marginalize their perspectives and to keep these other more radical right-wing ideas out of play. So this is a very woke way of thinking about – Let's pause it here. It says this is a very woke way of thinking. All right, so –

God, I mean, does he just say nothing and make no argument while trying to sound smart? And it doesn't come off as very intelligent. There's, if you're going to say that the characteristics that make them the woke right is that there's grievance politics, there's a grievance here. I would certainly concede that any time, no matter what your political position,

bent is. There's always a danger of falling into kind of like a victim ideology or victim mentality. This can happen if you think that the system is against white people or if you think the system is against black people or the system is against gay people. This can happen to libertarians who just blame the government for why their own life is a problem. Like any group could be susceptible to this.

Maybe even the right wing who blindly supports Israel. I mean, I have heard them mention a couple times anti-Semitism. I have heard them mention Jews as a victim group a time or two. Just saying.

But again, that means nothing. That absolutely, this just means nothing because if you're just gonna say what's similar to the woke left or the woke right is they have grievances, well then that describes all politics. Every political group has grievances. There's never been one that didn't. That's kind of central to any political worldview. So then the actual question, like what an actual intelligent argument would sound like

is listen to the grievances and see if they're legitimate or not okay and like yes i'm sorry but like dei affirmative action type has been the law of the land there is discrimination under the law against a certain group and so if they're coming up and saying hey we have a real issue with this

Well, look, obviously, if they're blaming all of their problems in their personal life on it, that is unhealthy and that's not a good mentality to have. But you can't just say if they have a grievance, therefore they're the woke. You know, like the critical theory type guys, critical race theory, stuff like that. They have this insane worldview that

everything can be reduced to oppression in one form or another. Everything is oppressor versus oppressed, right? And this is what you see in kind of the dominant culture, say, on college campuses. Everything has to be viewed through that lens. So it's whites versus blacks or straights versus gays or men versus women or cis versus trans. Everything has to be seen through that lens. Now, that is stupid, right?

It doesn't make sense to view the entire world that way. Okay. And obviously you can just throw lots of real life examples into that and just go like, okay, so you're telling me that like by definition, some straight white sis, whatever made up words they have, some, some straight white guy in Appalachia is privileged and Barack Obama's girls are victims of

Oh yeah, right. There's lots of other factors involved. And in fact, lots of relationships can be mutually beneficial and nobody's being oppressed. Okay, so viewing everything through the lens of oppressor versus oppressed is stupid. However,

if anyone ever points out that any group of people is oppressed, for your response to be, "Oh, that's just like the woke left," that is equally stupid. That's just as dumb as their view. There are scenarios where human beings are oppressed and marginalized, and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out. The relevant question is, is your claim accurate? Do you have an argument that is actually based on logic and truth? And if you do,

then it's a good argument. Like, all he's, he's said nothing here, saying absolutely nothing to go, oh, we can call them the woke because what exactly? They have grievances? They veer into identitarianism, which by the way is not even true for most of the group that he's talking about, or certainly far less true than other groups like the Zionist right. I don't even know. What else, what else is there to say to this, Rob?

I'm confused. Well, it's because he's saying nothing. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Lumen, the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath. And then on the app, it lets you know if you're burning fat or carbs.

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about the world that there was a structural construction of the social and political and cultural environment designed to exclude people like them. Cause I, I forgot to say, I should have mentioned also just that like his claim that like, it makes you woke somehow to say that Bill Buckley was like gatekeeping the right wing in America and that the neocons rose to prominence and kind of kicked all of the, you know, the, the old right, the more traditionalist, uh, um,

right wing that predated the neoconservatives who were much more concerned with like non interventionist foreign policy and sound money and limited government and things like that. I mean, take on the argument, dude, it happened. That is true.

sorry we're allowed to point that out like this is a matter of history bill buckley was open about it he was open about kicking these groups out of the larger conservative movement so again this is just it's a non-argument to say if you believe that then you're woke is it true or not spoiler alert it is all right let's keep playing order to be able to achieve certain political agendas

And now they believe that they've woken up to these ideas. Woke. They've found them again. They've read the forbidden philosophers, Carl Schmitt, Julius Evola, James Burnham, and so on. They've read these things, and they're bringing back a true conservatism that was excluded from politics roughly since the end of World War II on the bogus pretense of preventing the rise of another fascist like Hitler or Franco or Pinochet.

And so there's a very practical explanation for why they're woke, especially their behavior. Lots of lying, lots of character attacks, lots of saying no enemies to the. Okay. Literally. So just to be clear, he says that's a very practical explanation. Like, no, it's not. And the view that he just like, just tell me this, James Lindsay, who are you talking about? Who has that view?

Just explain it to me. When has Tucker or Candace or someone like that made that argument that you're explaining? Because it seems like you're just attributing an argument to them that they never made. I'm not sure what it looks like from my point of view. Anyway... At least he'll talk out against personal attacks.

Well, right. And then the guy's going, oh, here's the characteristic. They resort to personal attacks while the guy's talking about how I got to lift weights or something like that. Like, wait, what? Which one of these guys are you? By literally all of the metrics that he just laid out, he's already losing. You're woker than whatever you're describing here. You do all of the things that you're criticizing right now.

You can try to couch it in this dumb academic language, but you're just – there's no argument here whatsoever. Like, just give me – again, this is the same thing. And again, this is why some people were saying, you know, that –

That, oh, it's just semantics when I was responding to Constantine Cassin about what first principles are. But it's not just that it's just semantics. My whole point is that if you're going to come at this from first principles, you have to give me your principle and then show how you apply it to both sides. This is such a reasonable standard.

That's it. If you want to say one side is woke compared to the other side, then the argument should look something like, okay, well, this side engages in accusations of bigotry whenever you make an argument against their position. This side is trying to counsel people. This side is trying to claim that they're in a dangerous environment and therefore they feel threatened and therefore your words are actually violence.

Okay, right? Like that's my argument essentially. Look at that standard of what we all object to on the woke and tell me who that fits more. It fits to a T with the pro-Israel right and it does not at all fit to people like us.

Okay, that's what an argument looks like. That's what applying an objective standard to different groups looks like. Okay, with Israel and Palestine, we're going to say that whatever, you know, it's wrong to kill innocent people or something like that. Okay, who's killed more innocent people? You know what I mean? Like, tell me your moral standard, and then let's apply this to both sides, and then let's have an honest debate.

dialogue about it but this you just get to say well and they resort to personal insults while you do the exact same thing this is sophistry it's bullshit it's garbage much like all of james lindsey's work this is garbage all right let's keep playing

the right, but they don't actually even attack the left that's their enemy, so to speak, at all. They only attack other conservatives. Lots of power plays, lots of manipulative. Pause it right there, Natalie. Okay. So at least for once, between all of this nonsense rambling, James gave us an objective standard. Okay. They don't attack the left. They only attack the right and other conservatives. Who does that apply to?

Can anybody with a straight face tell me that we don't attack the left?

Can anybody tell me that Tucker Carlson does not attack the left? That Kansas Owens does not attack the left? Do you think Darryl Cooper does not attack the left? Please make that argument. Geez, I wonder why this guy doesn't want to debate me on this topic. It's probably because the bridge has been burned. I mean, take that debate somewhere and see how you could do with that.

It's not even because the thing about it is, is that he finally snuck in an objective claim. You know what I mean? But it's so obviously wrong. It's so obviously bullshit. That's not true. None of those people that nobody there's nobody you could think of. I mean, please tell me the person who is on the woke right, who never goes at the left and only attacks fellow conservatives. And then, of course, the other point is that it makes sense to attack other conservatives sometimes.

Why wouldn't you? Why would you avoid attacking your, you know, team or your camp? It would seem that if other people who identify as a similar thing to you are getting it all wrong, it would make a lot of sense to be critical of them. Not sure I'm seeing the argument here. All right, let's keep playing. You know, speech.

And then there's the philosophical deeper aspect. Why woke? What does woke mean? Woke up to a structural politics that marginalizes people like me. And we need to band together in solidarity, no enemies to the right, in order to be able to create a powerful enough democracy

oppressed coalition to flip over the power structure by putting ourselves at the center and claiming power for ourselves this is explicitly okay having a critical conscience i just want this is exactly like why you you got to play this these type of videos why it's worth responding to them i want all of you guys to just like honestly take a minute and think about how dumb this is

This is why I say his work is garbage, because it really is truly awful. I mean, imagine saying that here's the similarity. This is why they get to be called woke, because their political view is that they woke up to the truth and they want to put themselves in the powerful position.

That just describes every political view. There's nothing about that that is unique to wokeism or critical theory or postmodernism or the anti-Zionist right wing or the pro-Zionist right wing or the moderate liberals or the far lefties or any political view. That is one of the features of them. We feel like we woke up to what's really going on.

And we'd like to put the people who we like into political office. Like, imagine I was going to say to you, um...

Okay, so there's like all these third parties. So let's say it's like the forward party or something like that. And I was going to argue to you that I go, the forward party, they're just a bunch of liberal Democrats. That's all that party is. And you were like, by the way, I don't even know what the forward party stands for, so I'm just using an example, right? And then you were to say, like, no, I don't really think they're liberal Democrats. They stand for a whole bunch of things that liberal Democrats don't stand for.

And I was like, well, Rob, on the more philosophical angle here, you see, the reason why they're all liberal Democrats is because much like the liberal Democrats, they feel like they are aware of the correct political theory. And they want to get their candidates into office so that they can have power to enact their political views. You see, they're the same as the Democrats. Right.

Wouldn't you immediately just laugh that out of the room? Like, what? Yeah, that's what political parties are. What do you mean? You didn't... You're making a comparison. You didn't take a unique or defining aspect of liberal Democrats and then demonstrate how the forward party are the same. By the way, in real life, you probably could do that. But you didn't do that. You just picked this thing that describes everybody and now are justifying your ridiculous claim.

This is just unbelievably stupid. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Public Rec. If you are tired of squeezing into stiff dress pants at the holiday party, this season unwrap the gift of comfort with the Game Changer pants from Public Rec. They are the office pants that look like Monday but feel like Sunday. Imagine clocking in while feeling as cozy as if you were still in bed sipping hot cocoa.

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All right, let's play a little bit more and then we'll wrap up because there's really just not much here to even rebut. Justness about the way the world is organized. Tucker Carlson, for example, if you listen to Tucker, a lot of people really like Tucker. Tucker is pretty critical of America. He's not doing a Howard Zinn critical America theory. Howard Zinn being the one who wrote the people's history, so the Marxist history of the United States, propaganda theory.

He's writing a different critical history of the United States. Well, the Constitution was not really adequate to prevent all of this. There is a post-World War II liberal consensus or world order that we're all being made subject to. Well, look at how America was involved in all of these things. America bad, America bad, America bad. Also, the UK was pretty bad too. America bad.

I'm sorry. This is fucking stupid, dude. Like, this is actually his comparison. He goes, well, he's critical of America, just like Howard Zinn. Critical. He's got critiques of the country that he lives in. So therefore, what exactly? And like, where exactly do we get to say he's critical of America? Are you not critical of America, James Lindsay?

Are you, I mean, you've for years, he's made a name for himself off of criticizing how communists have control of all of the institutions in America. Does that not count as being critical of America? Is it only when you're critical of what Washington DC, that's when you become a critic of America? Because I could tell you that Tucker loves America and constantly talks about what a great country it is. But yes, I mean, like, of course,

Of course he's critical of the government that we live under. We're $35 trillion in debt. Our currency is being tremendously devalued. We have the biggest cultural, racial, and political divides of my lifetime. We have fought seven wars in the last 25 years that have resulted in nothing but the deaths

of millions of people cost trillions of dollars and destabilized the world and we're currently involved in two ridiculously reckless proxy wars why should we not be critical of that what exactly does that mean again an actual argument that wasn't garbage or wasn't sophistry would be something like tucker is critical of this but he gets it wrong

James is not even attempting to do any of that. He's just saying, "You criticize America, they criticize America. Therefore, you're just like them."

Well, maybe their criticisms are stupid and these criticisms are smart. That's possible too. Like, this is mind-numbingly stupid. And of course he's couching it in this kind of like, he's saying it with an air of intellectual superiority, but he has nothing. There is no argument here. Yes, he's critical of America. And then again, like, the idea that, oh, and they have this idea that,

that there was a post-war consensus. This is not an idea that Tucker Carlson made up. This is something that everybody acknowledges as just an objectively factual historical truth. This happened. By the way, all these terms like...

you know, they have the New World Order or the liberal consensus or any of these terms, hegemony and any of these things. These are the terms that they use. You understand that, right? None of these terms were invented by Alex Jones. This is what the New World Order was a term that Henry Kissinger and George H.W. Bush used to use. Liberal consensus is a term that Charles Crowdenhammer and Bill Kristol and all of them use. This isn't

Benevolent hegemony is what I think, who is that, Paul Wolfowitz, I believe, called it. So this isn't something that the critics use. This is something that the people who were instrumental in these policies described them as. And yes, they are true. There is a post-war foreign policy order. And that has involved America being essentially the global empire.

That's just a fact. Again, like it's like when the Soviet Union collapsed, the unipolar moment, that term was coined by Charles Krauthammer. It wasn't us. We didn't make that up. But yes, we are critics of that. But there I go again. I'm a critic. So I guess I'm woke. That's essentially what it all boils down to. All right. So.

I don't know. I usually end these things by saying I'm open to a debate or a discussion. Obviously, Lindsay has already said he doesn't want to do that. But so, Lynn, I guess let this just be the nail in the coffin. That shit is really, really stupid. There is no argument there, no coherent one. But I would be I would love more than anything else for somebody to try to debate that position against me. I'd be interested to see how that goes.

All right. We got to wrap up there. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. Happy Thanksgiving to you, Rob, and to you, Natalie. And thank you to everybody. I'm thankful for our wonderful audience that we have who's been so supportive of this show. Hope you guys have a good one. Enjoy some time off work and some time with family. Catch you next time. Peace.