Jillian Michaels
56:41 Share

Behind the delivery trucks that keep your life stocked, thousands of employees at BP go to work every day. People bringing a new offshore production platform online. People making our refineries capable of more, like making renewable diesel from agricultural waste. People trading and shipping fuels to our customers.

and people helping truckers fill up and get maintenance at our convenient locations. They're part of the more than 300,000 jobs BP supports across the country. Learn more at bp.com slash investing in America.

Today, the beverage aisle looks a lot different than it used to. America's beverage companies are working together. We're delivering the options everyone wants. In fact, nearly 60% of beverages Americans buy have zero sugar. You'll find more variety than ever, including more of your favorites, now available with zero sugar. You'll also find more sizes and clear calorie information on the front of every can, bottle, and pack.

We know when it comes to finding balance, the more choices, the better.

Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem. I'm very excited for this one. Thrilled to be joined by Jillian Michaels, who is... There's a lot of titles you have, so I'm not quite sure what I should give for an introduction. She's a fitness guru known for her television shows and her many books. Several New York Times bestsellers. Has kind of been...

in the health world for a long time and has recently become, I think, pretty outspoken with support of Bobby Kennedy and criticisms of COVID insanity. And I think a very interesting part of this kind of massive political realignment, this crazy moment that we're all

living through. And so I really was very excited to talk to you. So thank you so much, Jillian, for taking some time out for us. Thank you for having me. I literally tried to find Adderall to keep up with you today. I don't take it. I was like, does anybody I know take it? How am I going to be on Dave's show? I mean, I have been watching you for years now and learning from you. And I'm really excited to be on. I'm gonna do my best today.

Oh, well, thank you so much. That's very kind of you. Um, and well, I, I appreciate that. And, and as you know, I've told you this personally before, but my wife is like a huge, huge fan of you. She was so excited when we were on a Pierce Morgan together. And then I ended up getting triggered by Joe Walsh, I think, and just yelling at him, uh, the whole time. But you like said something nice about me. And she's like, do you have any idea what this means? Jillian Michaels likes your show. And I was like, yeah, no, I know. It's cool. Um,

But anyway, thank you very much. That's very kind of you to say. Oh my gosh. I think it goes without saying, but I'm glad that me liking your show matters. I now see Joe Rogan deferring to your positions, but I'm glad that she could get excited about me.

me being a fan. That's great. Well, this is the right for, for the, for my, my brother, Joe Rogan doing it is really cool for my wife. She's like, yeah, yeah, whatever. But tell me more about Jillian Michaels. This is incredible. It must. So I wanted to ask you, cause I'm, I'm very curious about this. And I, I thought one of the one of, I mean, there, there were many, but one of the really fascinating things to me during COVID times, it started pretty early in the lockdowns was the,

It was just this very bizarre thing where we have like what is a health emergency. And then immediately the first response is like shut down the gyms and keep open the liquor stores. And then there were a lot of people in kind of the health world

who understandably sort of objected to that. They were like, yeah, this, and I'm curious, was this kind of like part of your story too? Or what were your like politics before the COVID era? How did they change through that? I'm curious. - I was exceptionally liberal pre-COVID.

and I am guilty of understanding why you might close a gym at the time when the hospitals were overrun. And I had caught it from a friend and I was perfectly fine, but it's, it was obviously very transmissible. And at that time we were worrying about our parents and we didn't know who was vulnerable and you were hearing all kinds of craziness. So when I,

first heard all of this stuff, like it came from a wet market and we need to close the gyms. And if we can just control this for two weeks, we're going to get a hold of it. It's two weeks, guys, just stay strong. And then it's week after week. And all of a sudden the stories don't add up and that science doesn't make sense. And you're seeing all of these incongruencies and policy. And one from California that was my absolute favorite is what I call the COVID layer.

So when you were allowed to go to a restaurant, you had to wear your mask. And when you would walk from the hostess stand to the table, you could catch COVID. So you must wear your mask. But once you sit down and you begin eating and talking with other people in a room filled with other people, you see you were below the COVID layer. And at that point, I was like, this is awesome.

bananas. You started to see absolute madness and inconsistencies and hypocrisy and silencing doctors that were exceptionally credible. And I started to feel like Neo in the Matrix, like I think many of us did.

Yeah, no, I mean, I remember I used to joke around about this. So when I first started doing that, because at first they just the comedy clubs were closed. But then once I was allowed to get back out and do stand up, they'd have like, you know, capacity restrictions sometimes. But they did the same thing at comedy clubs where you had to wear your mask as you walked. But then once you sat down, you could drink and eat and laugh. This is what everyone's doing. There is there to laugh. And what this was the most bizarre thing of it to me.

So like I'd be on stage looking at a crowd so that my perspective is like I'm watching everyone. And sometimes you would see someone like get up to go to the bathroom and not put their mask like forget, you know, like they get up and other people would start looking at them like, whoa, like, hey, you're up there. You're up there where there's COVID, you know, and it's like it was something about just like the ability of people to react.

To follow rules that made no sense at all. It was some like real time Milgram experiment thing, like just an expert said this. So we're all going to pretend this makes sense, even though it's so obvious. Like the guy was just sitting next to you and I could see you getting nervous as he stood up. It's just totally bizarre. I could not agree with you more. And unfortunately, there were so many examples just like

like that. And it just began to grow my concern exponentially. And if you as you begin to look a little bit deeper, it's like, God forbid you pull on one thread when the whole facade starts to fall away. It gets pretty friggin nefarious, Dave. Yeah. Yeah, I know it really does. And I'd imagine, you know, there was a

One of the, you know, there were so many different little dramas within COVID, but one of the things, and I was thinking about this earlier today in anticipation of you coming on, but I know there was this one, there's this Dr. Hotez,

Oh, right. So he this is the guy who like refused to debate Bobby Kennedy on Joe Rogan's podcast. And Joe brought him up recently the other day. And he was just kind of making the you know, the case about how the guy's like overweight and eats junk food and doesn't exercise. But his life's work is making sure everybody takes vaccines. And he was all about demonizing all of the people who were skeptical about the covid vaccine.

vaccine, if that's even what you can call it. And I did, let's call it a shot. I, I, I mean, it's not, it's not a vaccine in the sense of what everybody always meant by the term vaccine, but I guess, you know, updated definitions, very conveniently updated definitions, but I did think there was something, and this isn't like, okay, there's,

like, I'm not saying it's a law of logic or something like that. Like you could, you could smoke two packs a day and say, cigarettes are bad for you. And you're right. Even though you're, you know, kind of being a hypocrite, you're the, the argument you're making isn't necessarily wrong, but there is something kind of fascinating. And in a way, this is part of, to me, what Bobby Kennedy represents. There is something fascinating about like really unhealthy people, right?

lecturing everybody else about their health. And then you look at somebody like Bobby Kennedy, who is however, whatever you think of the guy, clearly personally, very committed to health. Like, I don't know, he's like in his sixties and doing like 15 pull-ups and then hitting like the band. It's just like, okay, that's to me kind of impressive and something we ought to like, that's a good example for, for people. And there's just something where it's almost like there,

There's this weird dynamic where it seemed to me like the, so Candace Owens said this once, and it really hit home with me. She said something, she goes, you know, after October 7th, a lot of people demanded that we pay attention to what's going on in Israel. And then a lot of us started paying attention to it. Right.

And they, people got upset that we didn't have. And it almost seems like there was this demand to have a national conversation about health. And then a lot of people were like, okay, let's have that conversation about health. And now it seems like, oh, you guys don't like where the conversation is going. But as somebody who's been in, like, this has been your world, this is your life's work. It's gotta be kind of an interesting position to listen to like these people who clearly do not take health seriously, pretend that they're the champions of it now.

I don't think that that is the argument they're actually making. Vaccines, now listen, this is my personal position. So we can get this out of the way from go. Two things can be true at once, right? Vaccines can save lives and they can also cause tremendous injury. Now it's more rare, but we don't really understand what causes vaccine injury and asking the right questions, mitigating

Litigating how many vaccines a human being gets from birth to 18 years old. These are conversations we need to be having. Now, the COVID shot vaccine, I was just talking to Dr. Heather Hang, Brett Weinstein's wife, and she's like, it's gene therapy. This is not a vaccine. So that's out of the mouth of a PhD. This is big business. I don't think these people are advocating for health.

It's big business. I think that is what their agenda actually is. And when the conversation did start to become about health,

You saw the pushback. And I don't believe in my entire life I have ever seen an individual quite so demonized as Bobby Kennedy. I mean, he eats dogs. Do you remember that? Yeah, that was in I think that was actually in Newsweek. So help me God or Vanity Fair. He eats dogs.

He is a predator. He is deranged. He's got worms in his brain. I mean, the attacks were relentless and vicious as soon as it became about, I don't know, childhood obesity, infertility, autism. Man, it was a whole different animal at that time.

Yeah, and it's really, I'll say, I've never seen a presidential campaign, and I've talked to both Bobby and Nicole Shanahan about this several times, but I've never really seen anything quite like his presidential campaign, which obviously, like, he didn't end up winning the presidency, but he ended up kind of leveraging the millions of people who supported him into getting the health department in this very interesting, you know, maha-maga coalition.

But where he essentially took an issue that no one in politics was really talking about. And he said, I'm going to make this the centerpiece of my campaign. And it has now become one of, if not the most dominant, like political issues of our time. This is if it wasn't for Bobby Kennedy, nothing.

Nobody else is talking about the health crisis in this country, at least in a political level. I'm not saying there's not like any sociologists. Yeah, like there's a nutritionist out there who's talking about it. But I mean, like somebody running for president who's talking about the fact that like we lead the world in chronic illness. Like, how does that not come up all the time? It just seems so wild. And the most on health care, by the way.

Yes, yes. And it's all because of this. I mean, I remember, you know, years ago reading about that, like back when it was like the Obamacare debate in like 2009, 2010. I remember reading about how like the CDC estimates that 70% of our medical costs are from preventable illnesses. And you're like, wow, that should...

That should probably be at the center of this conversation. Cause like if you have, I think essentially the point is that whether you have a completely free market privatized health insurance or a completely socialized health insurance system, if you have,

Obesity rates through the roof. If you lead the world in chronic illness, it doesn't matter. It doesn't really matter who's floating the bill. The problem is the health. I mean, like the problem is the health of our country. And it's just wild. I've just never seen anything like this before, where like one guy made this issue into an issue now that has to be addressed. I don't know that anyone will be able to run for president in the future without having an opinion on this stuff. I certainly hope that's the case.

I remember speaking with Callie Means, who I'm going to presume you're... Okay, I figured. So Callie is one of the masterminds behind this Maha Maga union. And this has to be about a year ago. And we were sitting down talking on a podcast.

And I was pretty feeling that the situation as it stands for Americans and health was pretty dystopian. And I didn't have a ton of autism, a ton of optimism about it. And I remember after Callie was like, listen, I'm working on something.

It's going to get better. It's going to change. I was like, it's never getting better and it's never going to change because special interests are too powerful and they have a grip on our politicians and they're the ones that are pulling the strings and there was no possible way unless you reform campaign, fine. And here, Dave, here we are. So credit to where credit is due because you're absolutely right. This is not a new message. If you go back to a book that I wrote,

over 15 years ago called Master Your Metabolism. I mean, I talk about red number 40. This is not new news. It was a more liberal movement for sure. If you looked at Marion Nestle and Maria Rodale and Mark Bittman and Mark Hyman and Michael Pollack, we were all raging liberals. Nevertheless, it went nowhere.

Nothing changed. And it only got worse. So how this magic moment occurred, I think it's multifactorial. I think COVID was a part of it. I think people were completely disenfranchised with both political parties. I think you had a few brilliant people with their hearts in the right place. And a little bit of magic has happened. Now, how much he will be able to achieve remains to be seen. But I promise you,

that he is far better than the alternative. And if I could point out just a few things, if we were to criticize the fact that he's not an MD or a PhD,

Now there's Xavier Becerra, who was head of HHS before him. And if we're going to ask questions about childhood vaccines, and that's deeply alarming to do and demand gold standard research and what have you and have placebo groups like this is so scary. And why would we do such a thing? But let's say that's really you're alarmed.

Xavier Becerra and his administration, the Biden administration, moved to remove

I promise you, Google it, it's true. Any age restriction on gender affirming care, which is a really fancy way of saying a sterilization, taking away a child's ability to have an orgasm, interrupting their brain while it's developing in puberty. I mean, the atrocities, quite honestly, associated with medicalizing the transition of children. To do that at any age and remove any and all restrictions, where was the outrage coming

about any of the crap that they did or didn't do. Not a peep. But then you have a guy that wants to facilitate real change and has been given that mandate and everyone's up in arms fighting for the pharmaceutical company and gene therapy as vaccines. It's

All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is My Patriot Supply. Real peace of mind comes from knowing your family is prepared for anything. My Patriot Supply, America's most trusted name in emergency preparedness, is offering a limited time discount on their best-selling supplies.

three-month emergency food kit. Each kit provides over 2,000 calories and 100% of the recommended value of 12 essential vitamins and minerals daily for 90 days. We're talking high-quality meals that last up to 25 years in storage and still taste like home-cooked. The pandemic taught us how quickly store shelves can empty,

Don't wait for the next crisis. Your three-month emergency food kit includes free shipping, a disaster replacement warranty, and 24-7 U.S.-based support. The special discount is available for a limited time only. Visit preparewithsmith.com now to secure your family's future with a $100 discount. If you order by 3 p.m., they'll ship the order within the same day, so you have peace of mind right away. Go check them out at my site, preparewithsmith.com.

All right, let's get back into the show. Well, it's also I will say and like I, you know, my so so my my wife is like, she's she's like, she's a bit of a health nut. I say that in the you know, and not as an instance. No, it's it's like, I mean, look, and she's she's gotten on me to be healthier over the years. And I should I do better because of her. She doesn't leave me too much choice.

But I will say that one of the things that was really interesting to me is that, um,

It is unbelievable how much this message resonates with mothers, because I think mothers are like, particularly today, like two, 2025 moms in this generation are dealing with something that I just don't think previous generations ever had to deal with. I mean, I think that my parents' generation, okay, there was a lot of,

in the supermarket, but none of them really knew. You know what I mean? Like they all just kind of like, they didn't have the information. They were just like, what's bread made out of? It's bread. You know, like they thought it was still bread, just like it was bread for their grandma. It's still bread for them. And like, I don't really think they understood that it's like, no, the bread your grandmother made was bread. Wonder bread is bread.

poison you're giving your kids poison you know and there is they all talk about every time i'm like i see that we're like the moms of the kids are together they're always talking about the fact that like when you go to the supermarket you are like surrounded by big red and blue poison

everywhere and you have to navigate out like what am i and and i gotta say this is something that i i don't really have like a firm political view on this i'm kind of thinking it through myself but there really is something about like on the rare occasion that i end up at the supermarket with my wife where you like sit there and and you

you know like the the fact that they like they rent out the aisles that are at kid level aisles with like the the cereal that's got like a big cartoon character on it that is like pure garbage that we know like we know for a scientific fact this is like the worst thing to do your and like if somebody were trying to sell

drugs to kids in this way. We would like, we'd throw this person in jail for 300 years if they ever tried to do something like that, you know? And yet these giant corporations who have bought off our government have completely captured all the regulatory industries. They are sitting here selling what we now scientifically know is a drug for kids. It is literally poison that's going to get them hooked on it and make their body desire more and more of it. And it does just seem to me that it's like, this is just...

It's an unspeakable outrage. Like, how have we allowed this to happen? I think that what happened is you're absolutely right. It began with our parents who bought into it's affordable. It's convenient. I remember my little microwave breakfast in plastic that had two little pancakes and

Little sausages and like, you know, God knows the chemicals. I would frigging bake that in plastics. And my mom was like, we are winning. That is two minutes. It's ready to go. It's healthy. It's a real breakfast. And we're out the door. She didn't know any better. And even still, my evolution in health and wellness was about losing weight and looking skinny. And then it became healthy.

Diet foods and lean cuisine was healthy. There really wasn't information up until I quite honestly want to say the early 2000s when you saw the rise of the crunchy liberals I mentioned previously. But when you look deeper at how this happened.

And I'm going to steal a page from Cali Means book. It's in the 80s when the big tobacco companies bought the big food companies and they ran their playbook. But if we want to go back farther, Dave, it starts with business.

Big ag being captured and corrupted through the first incarnation of the Farm Bill. And basically, long story short, how this evolved is that we have spent over the last 20 years a half of a trillion dollars in our tax dollars going towards genetically engineered seeds.

that are covered in chemicals that were derived from chemical warfare, like Agent Orange. So now when you've got frankincorn and frankenweed and this, that, the other, and you have subsidized it, and it's exceptionally cheap and exceptionally poisonous and nutrient empty, Big Food grabs it. They take their team of multidisciplinary scientists that study your kids' behavior and yours.

that I've learned how to target the bliss point in your brain so you can't eat just one and absolutely brag about it, which is even more. Yeah, that's right. That was their slogan. Yeah. Don't worry. You will be overweight and unhealthy because you cannot eat just one. We got you. And then Big Pharma.

is the third piece of this toxic triad and they swoop in and they medicalize everything and they pay off all of the studies. I mean, let's be honest. This system is rigged from top to bottom and we're just starting to wake up to that, I think, in a big way. And moms is, in my opinion, are always where the grassroots movements start and take hold. Thank goodness.

Yeah, well, I just think it's like there's there is something about, you know, I mean, I'm not saying it's not true for fathers, too, but there is something about the connection between mothers and their kids and how they really just kind of like they're so invested in their kids safety and protection and health. And so, yes, I think that it does make sense. It's also like there's.

you know, I think like, you know, when I, cause, cause I talk about this a lot of times, like I'll talk with my mother or with my, my, uh, my in-laws and it's like, sometimes I think we lose appreciation for like my mother-in-law was telling me about how, um, how strict her parents were about her cleaning the plate. Like you did not, I mean, you could not leave the table without finishing your food. And when you, you zoom out and you think about it, you're like, oh, they were only, I mean, they were first generation America. They were only

one generation away from people who are legit at food insecurity. You know what I mean? And so, of course, it's like this all kind of crept up on us pretty quickly where we went just in a few generations from being like, my God, if you have a piece of food in front of you and you don't eat that thing, what an insult that is to all these people who don't have food. And you know what I mean? Like your parent remembers being hungry as a kid themselves. So, of course, it was just like eat, eat, eat.

And then all of a sudden, in a very short period of time, to transition to not just tremendous abundance of food, but tremendous abundance of very unhealthy food where it's like, hey, no, we actually need to pump the brakes and think about what you're eating. And all of these things were all so brand new that I think, you know, like it obviously was going to take people a little bit of time to catch up. I think it's wonderful they are catching up.

I do. One of the things I always find fascinating, even as you kind of discuss this and how you were very liberal, you know, for many years is that it is interesting to me that this just so inherently seems to be, I mean, I guess it's a human issue that we should all care about, but there's no way you could ever convince me that this isn't something left-wingers or liberals should care about. This is more of a left-wing liberal issue than it is a right-wing issue. I mean, like you're talking about big corporations stacked

deck against ordinary people. And by the way, there's also a huge class issue that comes into this equation where, you know, it's really, you know, like people who are doing pretty well. It's not that big of a deal for me if I got to spend more money for my kids to have the healthy food, but for

people living on a very fixed income or a very, very tight, you know, living paycheck to paycheck, that's a huge issue for them that like they would have to like triple their grocery bill in order to get grass fed meat and, you know, whole foods and all of this stuff. And it seems like that's just...

It's like an issue that's right there for the left to care about. This is your issue, guys. Like this is a completely unfair system rigged against the working class and the poor. But you know why they're not saying anything about it is because they've also been captured by special interests. And it's funny that you bring up marginalized communities. These soda companies target children of color two to one.

Where's all your systemic racist talk now? Like, where is the outrage now? Not a peep. They literally go after their heroes, their celebrities to capture their kids like pied pipers of fast food addiction. And nobody's mad. They go after the poor with programs like SNAP.

or I think it's called Women and Children programs that we have food programs for people who are, um,

less wealthy, not as well off, however you want to marginalize, however you want to describe it in the most politically correct way possible. Nevertheless, they are absolutely targeted. They are the ones that are being preyed upon. They are the ones that are being marketed to, and they're the ones that are having this crap forced down their throat. But should you question whether or not

sodas should be removed from programs like snap food stamps program. That's racist because now you're denying, I swear to God. And again, I want to give credit where credit is due. This is Callie means pointed this out a couple of years ago now because the

Like the Hispanic Freedom League or the NAACP is taking such massive donations from the fast food companies and the soda companies in particular. They run right out there and they're like, this is racist for you to take away these valuable calories from children of color who are...

In poverty, it is diabolical when those kids are being targeted by those bastards two to one. Yeah. So a couple things on this that just literally just come to my mind. I remember I went to briefly, I went to college in Oneonta, New York, which is like way upstate, halfway to Canada, upstate New York.

And, oh man, I hated it. It was boring and cold. There's nothing to do except drink up there. That was the only part I liked. That part was cool, but the rest of it sucked. But I remember it was like this, I'd always lived in New York City my entire life. And so it was like the first time I was ever like living in like a small town. And I remember just being blown away by how fat all the locals were. And then the fact that there was like, there was nothing in this town.

But there was every fast food place. I mean, there was a KFC, a Burger King, a Wendy's, a McDonald's, like every single fast food. There was an Arby's. That's all they had. It was like bars and fast food was all they had. And every day you would just see like these incredibly overweight families eating this fast food. And even at the time, this is like 2003 or something like that. I was like, man, this is just seems bad.

And, you know, not knowing that much about it, but I was like, this sure ain't good. And and then I remember. So when I lived in in New York City, this was like about probably around like 10 years ago is before I had kids. But my my my very good friend, Louis J. Gomez, is also very, very talented comedian. He so I lived in the Upper West Side.

And he lived in Harlem. And so it was like, you know, like a 15, 20 minute walk. And I used to do the walk all the time. I'd always go over and visit him and his kid up at their house. And, you know, like if people know New York City, like the Upper West Side is a very white neighborhood. Harlem is historically a black neighborhood, which is changing a bit now. But I remember like as you'd make the walk.

You could just see the food stores changing. Like it goes from like on the Upper West Side, everything was kind of health oriented. And then as soon as you started getting into the convenience stores in Harlem, it's all gushers. And so like while people like kind of go like, OK, restricting SNAP programs are racist. It's like, yeah, but what about this?

Like, isn't this kind of messed up? And I'm not saying like, look, part of that is, is a cultural issue. Part of it's an education issue. You know, like there, there is truth to the fact that like, Dave, you are 100% right. Your, your instinct is absolutely accurate. And I would imagine in upstate New York in this area that was rural and more poor, I guess they're white. Right. I mean, now they do target, as I mentioned, people of color two to one. However,

They go after poor people across the board. And that's why you have these food deserts. All of this is by design. And it's a much longer conversation about how they managed to do it, but it has been going on for just about 100 years. And it started with how they gamed the agriculture so that all of the money went to

Monsanto's places, you know, the big farming industrial complex, that whole thing. And it after World War Two mechanization. And then it's like, oh, no, we've got a world food issue. OK, let's give more to these genetically engineered crops. It there's a whole history to it. It's exceptionally diabolical. It's dense, but it is absolutely by design. And your instinct is 100 percent right.

All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is sheath underwear, longtime sponsor of the podcast. You guys have heard me talking about sheath underwear for, for years at this point. And I really do love them. I mean, I can't say it enough. The most comfortable pair of boxer briefs you will ever own. The only underwear that I ever wear, literally every time you hear from me, I am overwhelmed.

comfortably in a pair of sheath underwear. You got to check them out. Look, they're a longtime supporter of the show. So just for that reason alone, go support them. But also while you're at it, get yourself the most comfortable pair of boxer briefs you will ever own. They also have shirts and hoodies and a bunch of great stuff. Check them out at sheathunderwear.com and make sure you use the promo code problem for 20% off your order. They ship anywhere in the world. Sheathunderwear.com promo code problem for 20% off. All right, let's

Let's get back into the show. Yeah. And it's just, it's, it's just wild to me that like, that doesn't seem, it's almost like out of, um, and, and like, as the point I made, like it was, it was poor people in Oneonta who were white people. And then it was the, the poorer people in Harlem who happened to be black people. But it's like, there, there does seem to be a weird thing to me where I'd watch like in this dynamic, like Upper West Side versus Harlem. And it's almost like the, the, the kind of liberal, um,

The weird racialism that kind of took over over the last 10 years where there was it's almost like a white guilt type thing that you don't feel like you guys don't live this way, but you don't want to tell them, hey, there's a better way to live or like try to move to that because then you feel like that would be bigoted of you to like impose something out there. But it's like all of you actually. Yeah, it's like it's ableist.

It's racist. It's actually called being able, they have labeled people who have done that ableist and racist. And in fact, gosh, I can't remember her name, but there was a doctor who said calling junk food, junk food was racist because marginalized people of color needed junk food. And I remember thinking we, we have absolutely left Kansas. Like this is,

The world has inverted itself. I mean, we're and it was during COVID. But one more thing is the healthy at any size movement. Yeah. Derail the shame narrative. All of this comes from big food.

It's not even a question. I encourage people to Google it. There was an expose, believe it or not, in the Washington Post that exposed it. So they're paying registered dietitians and influencers in health online to be promoting those hashtags like derail the shame, healthy at any size. That's all a psyop. And then they tapped into this, you're right, white guilt thing.

So that even doctors were afraid to say to their patients of color, you need to lose some weight. Dr. Casey Means talks about it. You're spot on. Well, I think, you know, I've felt for a while, like, you know, I think there's like there's there's inherently, I think, benefits to like.

um, like kind of a left-wing worldview and there's benefits to a right-wing worldview. And I mean, kind of like abstract and then there's weaknesses. And I think that like, I always felt that like after nine 11 in the George W. Bush terror war days, they kind of like, it's almost like they, they short-circuited right-wingers. Like they tapped into what their weakness was and their weakness was just having this kind of

this base of like patriotism and good versus evil. And this, and once you tapped into that, it was like, we got to go see about Saddam Hussein. He did 9-11 or something like that. And like, if you tried back then, if you tried to talk to a right winger, like logically, and you were like, no, no, no, listen, Saddam Hussein's bath, this party,

the radical Sunni terrorists. There's no way they were working together. Like, these guys are mortal enemies. It was just like, oh, so you're saying you're on Durka Durka's side and you're not on USA's side. And it was just shut down the conversation. And then likewise, over the last decade, I feel like there's something which probably, much like with the right-wingers, it probably...

originates from like a good place. I'm not talking about the people rigging the system. I'm talking about regular people. You know, like where there's this desire from liberals to be like, we're not the bigoted ones. You know, we're not the racists. We're not the people who are mean. We're the people. We're not the religious superstitious people. We follow the science. But then the problem is like when they, when they,

tap into that and they go, okay, well, if you say that this fat person is fat, you're a bigot. And if you say what the CDC says, you're following the science. It's like they, they short wire people. They got them to turn their brains off and start going like, look, I'm not, nobody here is saying like, be a dick to fat people. I'm not saying like make fun or make some, don't be a bad person. Don't be shitty to anyone. But

come on, let's get real. Like, no, big is not beautiful. Big is unhealthy. And the correct move is not, you know, if you have somebody who you love, who's a heroin addict, you don't say like heroin is beautiful. And, but you know what I mean? Like you try to help them get help and get better. Cause that's how you live. And it's just, it's been wild to see that this actually took off. Not only did it take off,

I mean, it was wildly popular. So in my opinion, there are two reasons why. The first one is cancel culture. And I experienced this personally.

personally in 2019 from the infamous incident where I was asked by a crappy little interviewer. I don't even know what I was doing on this interview on Buzzfeed. I don't even know what I was doing on Buzzfeed. And she asked me if I celebrated Lizzo and Ashley Graham. And I didn't know who Ashley Graham was at the time, but I knew Lizzo because my kid liked her music. And I was like, she's a great artist. Why?

And she's like, well, you know, of course, the big question was like, do you celebrate the fact that she's obese? I was like, well, of course I don't celebrate the fact that she's obese because if you really like her, you want her to be around for a long time, right? Wouldn't it be terrible if she got diabetes? Oh my God, Dave, it was.

It was a catastrophe. AT&T had to deal with my app. They pulled out. I had a post scheduled for this dog food company who was like, we're not going to post her. We don't want her working with our company. It was insane. So I think when people see someone else being taken to the gulag, right, stoned in the public square, they're terrified into silence.

But the other component of this that we are still seeing in spades is

is the moral superiority and that high, which comes from virtue signaling, I am the empathetic one. It reminds me of Ralph Fiennes, with Ralph Fiennes in Schindler's List, where he's like, I pardon you. Like, it's truly evil, actually. And it's purely about your own ego and making yourself feel holier than thou.

But I think it is those two elements of fear and narcissism that have allowed us to become vulnerable to this kind of brain virus, quite literally. Yeah, you know, I think that's exactly right. I think that's exactly right. And the latter part that you're talking about, they're both really important elements to it. But the part of that kind of...

uh, the, the kind of ego boost that you get off of that virtue signaling stuff. It is such a, it is such a poison. It's something all human beings are somewhat vulnerable to. And if you want to be a decent person, you have to actually fight that impulse. But anytime you're just feeling really good about yourself when you haven't actually done anything, like it's great to feel really good about yourself when you've done something that's wonderful. But when it comes more and then there is, and I will say, I, I've always found that it's a

particularly with, with women, not 100%, but particularly with women, there will be this kind of like, you just see, you see like young girls with like a, like bikini bodies talking about how awesome Lizzo is for being overweight. And you're like, I think I see what you're doing here. And I don't think there's anything positive about it. I think this is, this is a weird tactic, you know? Yeah. Not only is it a weird tactic,

There were so many fitness people that ended up doing that. And then, you know, putting like, oh, we're...

We're going to put like obese mannequins in fitness clothes. And we're going to, it was absolutely exactly what you're talking about. There's one woman in particular who shall remain nameless, but had a bit of an eating disorder, but was fairly large in fitness is less well-known now, but still pretty well-known and appealed greatly to more millennials slash Gen Z. And you've got this real thin white girl,

Talking about like, let them eat cake. You piece of shit. Yeah, because it's like. She knows, Dave. Yes. You bastard. Yeah, come on. Like you do. And there is something some comedic. God, I can't remember. I should credit them. But it was such a funny joke. I can't remember whose joke it was. But so would have the joke where like there's like girls. Girls keep saying Lizzo looks great. And he goes, OK, well, why are you so offended when I tell you you look like Lizzo?

And it's just like kind of says it all right there where it's like, look, if you are especially like if you're working hard because like particularly when we're talking about younger women, like sometimes people just have good genes and they look great, you know, but some people, particularly the people who work really hard at it. It's like if you work really hard to look great and then you feel good about yourself because you look great, which is totally like noble and and that's wonderful. But then you're

you're turning around and like complimenting some other girl instead of encouraging her to follow your path. It's like, no, I actually think that's evil. I think that's like a really wrong thing to do. You're totally right. It's absolutely part of the problem. And the even greater irony is all of those virtue signalers

like Oprah, then turned around and jabbed themselves with Ozempic at the very first opportunity. Yeah. Oh my God. The hypocrisy is staggering. Absolutely staggering. And it's, it's exactly that. It's like, how can I elevate myself as a really good person? And how can I feel better than you or make myself feel better?

feel and appear better than the people who are saying the opposite. And then there are the people that are just legitimately scared. Doctors that are legitimately scared.

to tell their patients they need to lose weight because they're worried they'll get sued. And this is real. It's called medical McCarthyism. And I hear about it from all the different doctors that I interview all the time. And it's from COVID to obesity and everything in between.

All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Native Hydrate, a zero-sugar electrolyte and amino acid drink mix that supports hydration, energy, and muscle health. Native Paths, Native Hydrate is a thoughtfully designed formula packed with electrolytes, branched-chain amino acids, and

and all nine essential amino acids to help with muscle recovery, bladder health, and overall vitality. Plus, it's free from sugar, artificial additives, and third-party tested for purity. With Native Hydrate, you can fuel your body with essential electrolytes for cellular hydration and the amino acids it needs to absorb and retain those vital minerals.

Unlike other hydration drink mixes, Native Hydrate contains just 230 milligrams of sodium for optimal daily hydration. Native Hydrate is only five calories per serving. Every order comes with a 365-day money-back guarantee, so you can try it risk-free. Check them out today by going to nativehydrate.com slash partoftheproblem to see what Native Hydrate could do for your health. That's nativehydrate.com slash partoftheproblem.

All right, let's get back into the show. Yeah. And right. And I'm sure there's a lot of that. And then there's also, as you mentioned before, there's just kind of like, well, look, there's even for people who won't be sued, like you gave the examples where with your app and AT&T and all this where, okay, there's going to be an enormous headache for you. And the truth is that human beings buy

by and large, do tend to respond to incentives. If something is going to be enormously difficult, then fewer people are going to do it because, of course, who wants to go through difficulties if you don't need to? And there's also, there's a social pressure. And this is one of the things that's very interesting about the current moment that we're in. It's like,

you see that once there's not as much of a social price tag to pay for, say, like supporting Donald Trump, all of a sudden he's got the best poll numbers he's ever had because like, okay, people, when people feel, and I do think that it's something I've come to appreciate in my life because I, I am a bit of, um,

you know i'm my personality type and i can tell yours too is like you're willing to kind of take the arrows you're willing to be outspoken and that's kind of a it's a personality trait but it is a minority position most people aren't like that and and i think we've evolved to be this way for because we're pack animals and you don't want to get too far outside of the pack that's where predators get you you know and like there's i remember i was um i was at my my sister's house once

And there is this guy who's a friend of my sister's and he's like very, very smart guy. He's a college professor. And I remember at one point we were in our living room and he kind of leans into me and he goes, he goes, you know, I actually agree with a lot of your politics.

And I remember being like, why are you whispering? We're in my sister's living room. Like, what's going to happen to you here, man? Just say it. Put your shoulders back and just say it. You know what I mean? But then also I was like, well, maybe I shouldn't be so judgmental. It's like a lot of people like just don't want to deal with a headache. And it's enormous. It's something that kind of like the dominant person.

you know, progressive insanity of the last few years, like they really figured that out. They figured out that like, if you can really have a mass shaming campaign, you know, while they're saying, don't shame fat people, don't slut shame, don't shit, you know, all the attacks on shaming, but they know exactly how powerful shaming is, you know? And so it's like, oh, okay. Well, like, you know, again, even with like some of these topics, like I'm not saying,

I'm not advocating to be mean or to be overly, but they're, you know, like with this slut shaming thing, I don't mean this for women or men. I mean, for both men and women, there should, there should be some degree. There should be some degree of shame. Like, I don't know. Like, yeah, if you're like, just like, I don't know if, if someone came to me and it was just like man or woman, they were like, I just had sex with five people in the bathroom. I'd be like, what are you doing?

What are you doing? Jesus Christ, get your life together. What's going on? - You never blame the victim, but there is such a thing as healthy shame. It's also when you commit a crime, when you do something unethical, when you hurt somebody, there's a healthy shame to that. Don't do that. That's the wrong thing to do. That's a shitty thing to do.

My mom's a psychoanalyst and we've actually had long talks about what healthy shame looks like and what it's intended to do. And it's to help people evolve into becoming a better person. Or if somebody is tending towards sociopathy.

quickly sweeping them back into line. But when people are calling out facts that we can conclusively say are facts, you know, the earth is not flat, right? Being obese is unhealthy. I mean, there's a robust amount of data to back this up. When you are attacking people for calling out facts,

And subsequently wanting to question the existing norm and orthodoxy, man, there is some evil happening there across the board.

Yeah, 100%. It's like removing a necessary component of what keeps a society functioning, you know, is that there's like antisocial behavior or destructive behavior, and then there's positive and social behavior. And it's like, you want to encourage one and discourage the other. And anyway, it does, it does seem to me, and like, I will say, you know, like, I'm with you when you said earlier that, like, you just couldn't have imagined that, like,

even just like what we're seeing now. And, and again, to your point, I'm not saying anything's been done yet. Like Bobby getting in there, Tulsa getting in there. This is just the beginning. And now we start, we start the battle, but it is, but even just to be where we are today and the,

way the pendulum has swung and how it's again, I don't think it's not, I don't think it's as simple as to say that it's like, oh, the left lost and the pendulum swinging back, right. It's like a whole realignment. And I am just very encouraged by it. I'm very encouraged, but that all of that stuff where you're talking about like the fat,

shaming and the COVID stuff. It just seems like in terms of the popular support, it almost feels like it went from an 80-20 issue to an 80-20 issue the other direction. Like just nobody's buying into it anymore. That I find very encouraging. I totally agree with you. And it feels like the Wizard of Oz when the Wicked Witch actually melts. It's like the sun comes out and everybody... Now, I do think it's

you know, page one of the book that has yet to be written. I think it's going to be trench warfare and you're seeing it across the board. It's like everybody resist, just resist to resist. Oh my God, the sky is falling. And, and, and you've got all the propaganda whipping up the people on the left. And it's like, everybody's hit Larry and, and the world's going to end and whatever. And there it's so crazy though, because what they're fighting for is,

I don't even think they realize. Like when you watched Bobby Kennedy's hearings and he's sitting there saying, we need to ask why are vaccine injuries happening? We need to ask, like, why has autism gone from one in 10,000 to one in 36? And everyone is demonizing this guy and they're loving their politicians who take millions from big pharma. Like, I just...

we've got a long way to go and I am exceptionally optimistic, but I wouldn't get complacent. That that's all I'm saying is it's, it's going to be an uphill battle. And I do know not to talk out of turn, but to get,

Kennedy confirmed concessions did have to be made. And I don't know how public any of that is or not, but it obviously goes without question that it's like you will bend a knee to a certain extent. We even saw some of that with Tulsi and the whole FISA situation. It's like to get there, you will have to make some, you know, some, you'll have to give some stuff up along the way. So

So it's way better than where we were, but I know it's going to be an uphill battle. And I think what I'm trying to do is encourage people to stay vigilant and to be patient.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's perfectly, perfectly said. And it's it's unfortunate way. You know, I was talking about this during both Bobby and Tulsi's confirmation hearings where I was just kind of like, listen, guys, I know everyone wants them to just dunk on these senators. And I know everybody wants Bobby when he asked him a question to go like, please, you're the most corrupt human being in the world. What's wrong?

I go, but he needs their votes. So this process actually, he like, if, if I was in Bobby's ear right now, I'd be just kind of like, well, say what you got to say to get in there. You know what I mean? Let's just, let's get, let's get confirmed. I mean, as it is, you know, they got confirmed by razor thin margins. And so it was like, there just wasn't. And again, there, there's a whole different battle to actually like,

the the mechanism of government and entrenched interests and peeling those interests away but

a prerequisite to even getting to this point was having this giant cultural awakening. And now, you know, you see where it's like a necessary component to this is that Bobby and Tulsi and Trump, for that matter, they got to know if they're going to war with the swamp, that like the masses, the American people have their back.

And so like, that's gotta be known. And then also I would, you know, agree with your, your point about like complacence, but also patience, like also understanding that like this thing was built up over many, many decades and it's not going to be solved in a day or a year or in four years, but it's,

Look, we have the potential to actually see some positive change right now, which feels very new from my perspective. You're totally right. That's why when I was sitting with Callie, I had lost all hope just because it's,

so entrenched and these special interests are so powerful. And the reality is you talk about it with military industrial complex and you understand all of this regime change. And I listened to you talk. I'm like, whoa, I learned so much from you. And it's as corrupt and as deep as that in my line of work. And if you even want to take it

A step further, if we could put on our tin hats for a second and go down the rabbit hole, when you look at who owns the big ag companies, the controlling share, and then who owns the big food companies, controlling share, same for pharma, same for big insurance companies, it's all the same thing.

companies. It's BlackRock, it's Vanguard, State Street. In other words, my point is that the reach is so great and the incentive is so powerful that it's not going to be easy. It's definitely a David and Goliath story. We will take each and every little win. This is why to take the

I hate to say this, but it is like stay woke, like stay aware, stay vigilant. Don't don't allow yourself to be placated because they give up one out of 10,000 chemicals that have made it through a loophole in the FDA. Everyone's like, look at this red 40 winner. Like, yay. I'm thinking, are you kidding? That is a snowflake on the tip.

of an iceberg and we don't have any idea how big that fucker is under the ocean. It's bad. It's as deep and scary as it can possibly get. It is absolutely by design that is not conspiracy theory or hyperbole. And so again, I don't want to be a downer. I want to be, this is wonderful and we're all waking up and we're all forcing change, but we need to stay in that headspace. That's all I'm saying is to stay focused,

very present and aware and not allow ourselves to be placated, be vigilant and be supportive like you're talking about in every way you possibly can.

Yeah. Listen, I could not agree more. Well, Jillian, I knew I was going to really enjoy this and I really did. I'd love to do it again. And we could talk about how this how this all unfolds. And I'm sure there'll be lots more news coming out that we'll enjoy talking about. Tell people if people are interested in learning more about you or following your stuff, where where can they find you? Let's go to Jillian Michaels dot com. All my all the different branches of what I do lives there.

Okay, awesome. Jillian, thank you so much. I really, really appreciate it. I really appreciate it. And hopefully I can turn the table on you soon. Absolutely. Anytime. Let me know. Tell me why you said hello and goodbye. And thank you. I will. I will make sure to do that. Okay, thanks everybody for listening. Catch you tomorrow with a brand new episode. Peace. What's the difference between DIY and doing it yourself?

It's the difference between a part-time passion and a full-time business. Wix gives you the power to turn your passion into a moneymaker with a website that fits your unique vision and the business tools you need to succeed. Let your ideas flow with AI that guides you but keeps you in the driver's seat. Manage your business from one dashboard and keep it growing with built-in marketing features. It's time to turn your daydream into your dream job. Do it.

Yourself. Go to Wix.com.