Zelenskyy's Strategic Blunder
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What's up? What's up, everybody? Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem. I am Dave Smith. He is Robbie the Fire Bernstein. And man, we got a good one to break down today. How are you, Rob?

Uh, you know, Friday was one of the most exciting media days. We do this all the time. We're commenting on things all the time and it's always exciting, but very rarely do you get a WWF showdown like what we saw in the white house. And, uh, I did an episode about it yesterday. I'm excited to get into it with you now. And, uh, we've got fun stuff to get into.

I mean, it is, uh, yeah, it, it, you really can't kind of overstate how wild it is. Uh, let me just real quick before, um, we, we get into this cause there's a lot to talk about. Couple orders of business. Uh, I, I should mention that, um, me and Rob will be in Buffalo, New York on, uh, the sixth and the seventh and then one night only in St. Catherine's, uh, Ontario, uh,

in on March 8th. And then coming up a couple of weeks after that, we are back at law left Boston in the great city of Boston, Massachusetts, very much looking forward to all of that comic Dave Smith.com for all of those ticket links. And of course I will be returning to the Soho forum to to debate Alex Norwash on immigration. The Soho forum.org for those tickets. If you want to come, it'll be a live debate in New York city. Looking forward to that very much. Okay.

So, yeah, that was this. It was a pretty incredible moment. And you just like like you said, we do not see things like that ever. I would there's there's so many different angles here to kind of break all of this down. But I guess I would have to say the starting point is that that has got to be the biggest thing.

political strategic blunder by Zelensky that I've ever seen. I've just never seen anything like that. And I don't, you know, I'm not going to get into like too much psychoanalysis. I like to try to stay away from that stuff. I don't, I don't know Zelensky personally. I don't know who

who was in his ear or why he thought that would be a good move. Perhaps it comes from being on the cover of Time and Vogue and just everybody kissing your ass and being treated as this hero internationally for the last three years. Perhaps there were other American politicians who were in his ear encouraging him to do this.

But the idea that he would, that his move when he is completely dependent on Donald Trump to the point that his life might be on the line, but certainly his nation is. And when you're completely dependent on Donald Trump for your move to be, I'm gonna try to alpha Donald Trump on national television in a language I don't really speak very well.

has got to just be, I mean, I've never seen anyone go into anything with a worst game plan on anything. I mean, everybody knows no matter who it is, that is the one way you cannot come at Donald Trump. And he attempted it. It went exactly as, as you would have predicted. Um, and it really does seem like this was a, like a,

A huge fork in the road where things just went in a different direction. I will say overall, I think it's great. And I think it's better for the prospects for peace that Donald Trump is like, screw this guy. But I just I kind of can't get over like what was Zelensky thinking?

Well, I think that's the genius of Donald Trump is that he knows television. And I think they did not actually have a deal going in. I know that they're claiming that they did, but I saw Zelensky saying last week it was more of a preliminary discussion. And it seemed like they were assumptively closing him of.

Isn't this great? We got the television cameras here and we're ready to get the deal done. The Trump team is claiming that it was a done deal and they wouldn't have brought him in without that. But I'd seen comments from Zelensky beforehand that sounded like, uh, um, classic sales. Hey, I got to speak to my wife. I got to talk to talk to my business partner. Didn't seem like Zelensky thought it was a done deal. Uh,

No, I agree with you on that was intending at least to come in and make a last pitch for let's fight him or I need a security guarantee. And so they sat him down to go. All right, we're here for the signing. Let's take some questions. And I think Zelensky probably has been a difficult partner and they knew exactly how he would behave.

And Donald Trump is a genius for putting it on television. And Zelensky, I was comparing him. He's got childhood star energy because they brought him out on the Oscars. They did the cover with him. Apparently, the Senate, the Democrat senators sat down beforehand to blow a bunch of smoke up his ass and tell him how great he was. And then he showed up for the Donald Trump meeting. And it was it was, you know, then J.D. Vance was there playing mom. Go, how dare you speak to your dad this way?

And I don't think he could have done anything worse to get more of the American public to go, let's just be done with this country.

Yep. Yeah, no, I agree with that. And I will say, because this seems to be now where the divide is, and we're going to play the clip in a second and kind of go through it, because there's some interesting, just like kind of analyzing what's actually being said and argued over. But I just, I know there are people who do not like Donald Trump, and no matter what he does, they're going to oppose what Donald Trump just did. I think...

you know, whatever my own bias opinion. I think me and you have been pretty good about like,

praising Donald Trump when he does good, criticizing Donald Trump when he does bad. I think it's like it's been a unique challenge in the Trump years where it feels at times like about 90 percent of people are either going to love everything Donald Trump does or hate everything Donald Trump does. And it seems very hard for the people who love Donald Trump to ever admit when he's doing something wrong. And for the people who hate Donald Trump, it's like impossible for them to ever admit he did something right. But

But I will just say and obviously I'm you know, I'm not exactly neutral on this topic. I've been talking about this war for years now on some big platforms. And so I have a view going in, but I just could not believe.

that Zelinsky would try. I found him to be totally disrespectful. And it was like to an appalling level. Then I'm listen, I'm never somebody who like, first of all, I'm not a suit and tie guy. I don't know, Robin, all of the years that we've known each other, if you've ever seen me in a suit and tie, uh, the, the, the, I, I put on not even a suit, but I put on a

button down and a tie when I was at the Reno convention when I was speaking and then introducing Ron Paul because I just felt like okay that's I got to put on a tie I'm introducing Ron Paul here and

And then like when I've gone to weddings, I'll put on a suit for weddings. That's about the only time you'll ever catch me in a suit and tie. But if I was invited to meet, this is me dressing down for work. Well, if I was, if I was invited to go meet the president in the Oval Office, I would put on a suit and a tie.

Because that just seems like the most. And then I will say this, too, man. And again, I'm really not, as you know, Rob, like I'm not some conservative in this sense. Like, I don't really care about like, you know, like conservatives used to freak out about Obama because like he had his tie loosened in the Oval Office. And you're like, this is disrespectful. I've never been that guy. But I do. I will tell you that.

when, when, I mean, he said this publicly on the podcast, but when Rogan said on the last podcast that we, we got to do a podcast with Trump and me, um, and, and he, we've floated out the idea privately a few times and I never, it was never like, oh, this is definitely going to happen. But it was always like, oh, that would be awfully cool if that ended up working out. But there is, I mean, a 0% chance that I would ever refer to him as Donald, um,

If we were in, you know what I mean? Like if I was podcasting with Donald Trump, I would never be like, and Donald, you know that like that would be crazy to you know what I mean? Like I would call him Mr. President because that's just like that's the most basic level of respect that that is expected.

I think reasonably. And so for, first of all, for Zelensky to show up in that outfit and then repeatedly refer to the vice president as JD, as he's arguing with him in the oval office, I did find as like, I thought that was like a blatant, like challenge and, and, and like just a show of disrespect that was, but then on top of that, it's like, look, you do just have to understand. And I'll say this.

I don't and we'll play the clip in a second, but I do not completely agree with the narrative that J.D. Vance and Donald Trump were were spinning. I definitely do not agree with the narrative that Zelensky was spinning. But the fact of the matter is, is that when you have.

the president of Ukraine and the president of the United States and the vice president of the United States and the secretary of state of the United States in the Oval Office with TV cameras on you, that event is by definition political. This is a political event. And whatever narrative it is that Donald Trump and J.D. Vance want to present, this

This is not when you are our fat welfare mom relying on our money and weapons for your fight. You don't get to come in there and just start like going like, no, no, no. Actually, your narrative is all wrong. And let me tell you what the real narrative is over here. I mean,

Now, OK.

That may not be like 100% accurate. There's some, there's a lot of truth to it, but whatever. But that's the narrative that they're spinning. They're a new administration. They got record high approval ratings for Donald Trump. The old administration is very unpopular and they're trying to sell it like this. And you don't get in the middle of that to just cut it off and go, no, no, no, no, no. That's not the narrative at all. This is a failure of Obama, Trump won Biden. And now, and it's like, no dude, you don't,

don't get to do that. I'm sorry. You're not. And, and Donald Trump's right when he says you don't have the cars, you're not in a position to be able to do this. Like, it would be like, if I was like, if I, everything fell apart for me and I'm just sleeping on your couch, Rob, and I'm literally like, I'm broken. I'm just borrowing money from you to eat. And you're giving me a place to sleep. And then like, I go with you to your parents' house or something like that. And I just start talking about what the problem with Rob is.

Like, you'd just be like, what dude? No, like you're not in a position to do this right now. And so I did think it was, I thought it was like wildly disrespectful and just stupid from Zelinsky. And I mean, unfortunately for him, like,

You know, J.D. Vance and Donald Trump are they're a mean combo, dude. Like these guys are good at what they do. And even if you don't think they're good at governing, they're really good at that. Whatever that is, you know, which is something that I kind of like have respect and I feel like some understanding of, like the battle of in front of cameras arguing about stuff.

man, they are formidable at that. And then again, to be in a language that you don't even really speak. So now you're just messing everything up. I don't know. It was just wild. I do want to play the clip. Anything else you want to add before we play a clip from this altercation? Let's go to the clip. Now, again, this is the shortened version of it just because it's a little bit too long to play the whole thing. But let's start getting into a little bit of this and picking it apart.

You have the full one. Well, how long is the full one, Natalie? All right, let's start playing it. Okay, sounds good. I have been to... I've actually watched and seen the stories, and I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President. Do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people into your military? And do you think that it's respectful to come to the Oval Office

of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country? A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning. First of all, during the war,

Everybody has problems, even you, but you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. God bless. You don't know that. God bless. God bless. All right, so let's pause it right here. Just to be clear. This was the first moment. This was, yes, this was after the, you know, it's fine. This is actually a good place to play it from. It starts with Zelinsky giving a long lecture to J.D. Vance, which J.D. responded like this, but then

this is the moment and i will say man one thing about donald again what however you feel about donald trump in any other environment this is his true talent i

I mean, this is just when the cameras are on and it comes to who's going to be the biggest alpha in the room and who's going to like sell himself. There is just no one on Donald Trump's level. And so he sits there and he does it just right. He lets his pit bull argue with this guy for a while. And then he's sitting there the whole time. You can tell. And I remember watching that like I watched this as it was happening.

And you just know you're like, oh, like this ends with Donald Trump being the dominant one in the room. He's sitting there letting them fight and picking his spot. And that was the spot he picked because for Zelensky to come over here and start saying this utter like, first of all, you know, there's something so condescending about, you know, we all have problems. You have your big oceans and that's nice. And it's like, yeah.

Dude. And but then for him to say, which essentially, by the way, what he's saying in kind of broken English has essentially been the the war cry from the very beginning about this, just like all these wars always have their bullshit propaganda, is that if we don't stop Vladimir Putin now, you're going to feel it, too. And you're going to bet. But what he's essentially saying here is what that Donald Trump, your plan right now is going to end in war.

disaster for America. You're going to be feeling this soon. And that's, first of all, I'm sorry, this is just fucking ridiculous. You know, I was just on, I was just on with a Pierce Morgan show before we started recording too, and arguing with a couple of these dummies. And they always, it's like the same thing every goddamn time, every war. I've just, I'm old enough. I've lived through so much of these now. It's always, if you don't fight this war, then this disaster comes.

You know, like if we don't fight the war in Iraq, then he's going to hand the weapons that he doesn't have off to the terrorists that he hates. It's just fucking ridiculous. But that's how they sold it. And this one has always been that then he's going to invade Poland and then he's going to take on NATO countries and then America is going to have to be in a direct war with Putin. But just none of it logically follows. There's no reason to think that if.

Vladimir Zelensky loses control of Luhansk. Therefore, America will feel pain. Like what?

How does that even I mean, like, I'm not saying it's impossible, but why would we take that as a given? It makes no sense at all. And again, the argument of being like it is literally like, Rob, if you don't buy my groceries and give me a place to live, then you're going to feel a lot of pain is just not a compelling argument for why we should give somebody welfare.

I thought it was crazy that he said that. And then you could tell as soon as he said that you were like, oh, you just activated Trump. You're in trouble now.

All right, so yeah, let's play Donald Trump's response. Oh, sorry, go ahead, Rob. Zelensky's sitting there and he's trying to play the card of, hey, I'm doing you the favor here. And he clearly isn't. And that's where Trump finally steps in to go, how dare you? We are completely fine. We do not need you. We will be okay. And speaking to your other point of if we don't stop Putin there, he's going to go take over the world.

That is going to age about as well as the domino theory in Vietnam. And for everybody who is claiming, oh, we are going to end up in a war with Putin. I mean, I really just have two questions that no one has yet to articulate. One is what is the pathway to victory for,

of giving more arms to Ukraine. What exactly? Because we're bleeding ourselves dry and spending money too. So it's not like we provoked a war between an enemy and some random people and they're both going to fight each other and that's how we corrode the empire. We're not doing that because we're involved here and we're spending our money.

So what is the pathway to victory? And then if it becomes that we're trying to escalate it, how do you have a war with Russia that doesn't end up in nuclear war? So I don't even understand for the people that want to remain in this war and they don't want to acknowledge how many people have died for absolutely no reason and that Putin is just slowly taking territory. And if anything, your entire agenda was to show people how mighty America is and that you had the sanctity of borders and

you've provoked the opposite where now you've showcased, Oh no, you can get away with land grabs and actually walk away with some goodies that might've been, that might pay off the war debt because there's trillions of dollars worth of rare minerals there. So, and we're coming to a point now where it does actually feel like the most insane claim I heard that was opposing this war was that it would be the end of NATO and

And I got to say, if after Zelensky showed up here and he was this disrespectful and then he goes, cries to Europe and Europe goes, we're going to back you. I don't know why we wouldn't turn around and go, fine, you guys are on your own and we're getting out of this NATO thing.

So I for everyone that is still backing this talking point of and now they're trying to sell the well, you see, Donald Trump's been working for Russia the whole time, which I knew they would go with that nonsense. But can anyone articulate a pathway to victory of why spending a single extra dollar for more Ukrainians to die makes any sense?

Yeah. Oh, that's no, nobody can. No, I was on with a general on Pierce Morgan today. They've nothing. They have no like, and again, and they all do this thing, which it just like reminds me of the, um,

The during the vaccine passport debate over the the covid jab. I don't know. People give me shit for calling it a vaccine. I understand. But like and they would be like, well, we can't have the unvaccinated in the same room as the vaccinated because then that's a risk to the vaccinated. And you'd be like, wait, I'm sorry.

This logic just falls apart right on its own. If the vaccine is so effective that we need to force people to get it, then shouldn't the vaccinated people in the restaurant be safe from the unvaccinated people coming and sitting in the restaurant? But it's like the same thing with this war. And this has been true the whole time where they're like, we're winning. We're beating Vladimir Putin. Look, he's so weak. Also, he's a threat to take over all of Europe. You're like, well, which one is it?

Which one is it? Is he the guy who's so weak that he can't take Ukraine? Or is he the guy who's going to take Poland next? Which one? It can't be both of those. It's got to be one or the other. And then he's such an evil madman that he doesn't care. He wasn't provoked. He did it just for nothing, but he'll never use nukes. We don't have to be worried about the threat of nuclear war. It's just all of this makes no sense. It's been true from the beginning of this war. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is

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And so anyway, yeah, just wild. Here, let's play Donald Trump's response to Zelensky. - We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're gonna feel. - I'm not telling you. - Because you're in no position to dictate that. Remember this, you're in no position to dictate what we're gonna feel.

We're going to feel very good. We're going to feel very good and very strong. You're right now not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position and he happens to be right about it. You're not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now.

You're gambling with World War III. You're gambling with World War III.

And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country. That's back to you. Far more than a lot of people said they should have. Have you said thank you once this entire meeting? No, in this entire meeting, have you said thank you? You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October. Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who's trying to save your country.

Please, you think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you can... He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble. Can I answer? No, no. You've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble. I know. You're not winning. You're not winning this. I...

You have a damn good chance of coming out okay because of us. Mr. President, we are staying in our country, staying strong from the very beginning of the war. We've been alone, and we are thankful. I said thanks in this cabinet. You haven't been alone. We gave you, through this stupid president, $350 billion. We gave you military equipment, and you men are brave, but they had to use our military. If you didn't have our military equipment,

If you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks. In three days. I heard it from Putin. In three days. This is something new. Maybe less. In two weeks. Of course, yes. It's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this. I tell you, to say thank you, except that there are disagreements, and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media when you're wrong.

We know that you're wrong. But you see, I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on. I think it's very important. That's why I kept this going so long. You have to be thankful. You don't have the cards. You're buried there. People are dying. You're running low on soldiers. Listen, you're running low on soldiers. It would be a damn good thing. Then you tell us, I don't want to cease fire. I don't want to cease fire. I want to go and I want this. Look,

If you could get a ceasefire right now, I tell you, you take it so the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed. Of course we want to stop the war. But you're saying you don't want a ceasefire. But I said to you, with guarantees. I want a ceasefire because you'll get a ceasefire faster than an agreement. Ask our people about a ceasefire, what they think. That wasn't with me. It doesn't matter for you what they think. That wasn't with me. That was with a guy named Biden who was not a smart person.

That's enough of this clip. So there's just so much to break down here. And I mean, look, this is part of the thing too, is like, you're like, dude, I mean, to go at Trump in this manner, he's interrupting every sentence. Like, I'm sorry, dude, but there is just a scenario where like,

What Trump says, you don't have the cards. He's right. You do not have the, you're not in a position to be able to be trying to interrupt Donald Trump and show him up. You got to be gracious here. Like you're just not, I don't know. You're not in a situation to do this. And for him to be like making these arguments that he, they were at it alone. And that, you know, like, it's just, it's bonkers.

This is this makes no sense. He's even arguing with him where Donald Trump says the last stupid president and he goes, you voted for him. Like, what are you doing here, dude? First of all, Donald Trump didn't vote for him. Second of all, I don't know how much you keep up.

Zelensky, Donald Trump is not exactly a big believer in what happened in 2020 in terms of the election. But regardless of any of that, what are you trying to do? Like win the moment here? What's the best case scenario? You dunk on this guy and then...

like what, then he's going to want to help you because you embarrassed him. Just crazy. It was just like crazy. Like, I don't know, dude, like I said on Twitter, cocaine's a hell of a drug. I don't know what the hell this guy was thinking, but man, it's the thing is that it kind of does work out great. Ultimately we can get into that, but I don't know, Rob, any, any other thoughts on this, uh, this interaction here? Uh,

It's even better on a second watch. And Zelensky's, I mean, this is literally me when I got caught in high school spending my parents' money on marijuana. And you got to sit down with them and they're giving you shit. And there's nothing you can say, but you just got teenage energy and you'll say whatever. Yeah. That's what he's doing. He's just sitting there. He's been called into the principal's office. He's trying to spin whatever he can. And Donald Trump's just too good that even his little comedic trick of, you don't have to yell at me. He's not yelling. That's not loud. I'll show you loud.

loud. Donald Trump just jumped right on that. He didn't give him an inch. And I mean, but Rob, just to the point, because I think that's a great analogy and that's exactly what I'm saying. Like little things, even look, you're not here for a confrontation. You're here to beg for more help.

And in that situation, even if you don't like it and you're losing and J.D. Vance goes, have you even said thank you like one time? Your response can't be, I said it lots of times. Like, what are you doing here? You're trying to battle? You're trying to win? The response to that should be, you know, something like, I have said thank you many times, but if that has not been clear, then sincerely to you, Mr. Vice President, and to you, Mr. President, thank you for what, you know what I'm saying? Like, your goal here is to win them back over, not...

battle them at every single turn. It's just crazy.

um but yes and i'm sorry continue i guess if you break it down what he's trying to negotiate for is more of a commitment from us for what we can't do we can't have ukraine and nato that's what started this mess was biden's stupidity of saying ukraine's going to be in nato so that's not on the table and it's true there could probably be a ceasefire fire tomorrow and zelinski's in the way because he wants some sort of a security guarantee from the u.s or a commitment for more money but

what cards does he have to negotiate that if we're saying no? So yes, Zelensky is literally sitting there and getting in the way of peace. And that's what Donald Trump's calling him out for is that we could have a ceasefire and he goes, well, it's a ceasefire without you guaranteeing me more free stuff. You're not in a place to ask for more free stuff. We're offering you a way out here. We can discuss a way to get this done. And by the way, you know, I was giving Trump a hard time last week over the mineral deals. It actually, uh,

there's a problem at the moment that things are kind of half reported, but from what I'm understanding, it would seem like it was a fair deal of that. We were just guaranteeing a right to buy the minerals. And then 50% of that country was going to remain in us control to be reinvested in Ukraine. Uh,

to essentially, it seems like just guarantee that the money wasn't just stolen and we have to spend more money over there so that there would actually be built-in funding for security or other purposes controlled by the U.S. that isn't actually, well, it's actually our money, but it's our money being spent for minerals as opposed to handing to them to be lost. But just the point being,

I, it's a Linsky does seem to be showing up, trying to figure out how to provoke and remain in this war and fight the force, either us or Europe to be paying for it. And, you know, throw them out and the relationship. And if you're, I said, it's like a, the scene in casino when a Sharon stone goes and sucks Joe Pesci's dick. And then Joe Pesci turns around and goes, man, that was a mistake. I never should have gotten, I never should have got involved with this crazy broad. And I think that's what Europe's about to discover. Yeah.

Yeah, hopefully, hopefully you're right. I mean, it is like this is like, again, I think what so much of the corporate media and the people who hate Donald Trump are almost overlooking here. But it's like, again, you're in no right. Like you said, you're just asking for more free stuff. And what is it you don't like? It goes like, well, I'd like a ceasefire, but we can't do ceasefire without security guarantees. And ask the Ukrainian people. They want security guarantees. Who cares? Right.

Who fucking, of course they do. All people want a security guarantee. I don't know, but none of us actually have one. Like this is, it's all like, you know, I was arguing on, on Pierce Morgan's show today with a general about this, where it's like, well, we can't end the war because how do we know Putin won't start the war again?

Then you're back in the same place. What? Yeah, right. Like that is not just logically that doesn't follow. It's like, well, then I guess there's never justification for ever ending a war ever because, hey, who knows? We could be back at war. But if the worst case scenario is we're back where we are now, that's not a good reason to stay where we are now.

So but also like, you know, like when you really like what is a security guarantee exactly? Like, what does that mean? I mean, like a security guarantee. All that that really means is that we're willing to fight that we're you know what I mean? Like we're willing, you know, if I if I like I do my best to guarantee the safety of my my wife and kids, right?

But that just means that if there's a threat, I will do everything in my power to fight it. And that doesn't mean I'll win. There's no guarantee. Might be more force than I can defensively muster up. So then shit, you know, I mean, like, and so for him to say that you're demanding a security guarantee, well, what exactly do you mean by that? That we, I mean, look, we could, I'm pretty sure we could guarantee Ukrainian security, not guarantee, but like we could,

If we send in the 82nd Airborne, we could repel the Russians out of Ukraine. We are not willing to do that. And that's the truth. How do you know that that doesn't escalate to a war with Russia? Well, that's why we won't do it. Right. Yes. We have a direct confrontation of sending an hour military into Ukraine to be on the border with Russia. Yeah, it's looking strikes on America.

And, you know, there's a funny thing here because I wanted to make this point on Piers Morgan today. I didn't get a chance to do it. But there's a funny thing here where nobody is taking that position. Nobody is saying, oh, we could just do this. We could go in. Nobody is actually willing to look at the American people and say, you have to send your sons over to fight and die in a direct, a direct war with the biggest nuclear superpower in the history of the world.

to protect the Donbass region. You know, like, I'm sorry, we do not want to do that. And Vlad, after getting hundreds of billions of dollars, you're going to sit here and demand, essentially, not demand that right now, but demand the threat of that. Demand that we, which is the only way that America can effectively give a security guarantee, is to say, we'll go to war. We'll go to war over this. Like, what else are we doing?

saying, hey, we really don't want you to do that. That's what we did. That was what we did for Ukraine already. Through the whole lead up to the war in Ukraine,

And I like to bring this up a lot because I think it's, it's pretty relevant. And, and, you know, look again, I know I, I'm probably guilty of patting myself on the back a little bit too much, but I don't know me and you, Rob, we're just right about all the most important issues. And so I can't, I can't help but point this out. I've been now for the entirety of the war. I have been one of the guys on the biggest platforms talking about the history of it, the conflict, what led to it, all of this stuff. And, and,

We were all like and I'm not even close to like the the best, you know, there's John Mearsheimer and Jeffrey Sachs and Scott Horton. And there's a lot of great guys who have been kind of talking about this from before the invasion in 22. But Stoltenberg, the the chancellor of NATO, he said that in late 2021, Vladimir Putin said.

He actually put a treaty, he drafted a treaty and sent it to NATO and said straight up, I will not invade Ukraine if you just put in writing that you guarantee you won't bring Ukraine into NATO. And like, that's the deal that was on the table.

Ukraine would have kept everything, no invasion, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people's lives would have been saved. They would have had to give up Crimea and they would have kept everything else. And all we would have had to do was say, we're not going to bring Ukraine into NATO, which, by the way, we're still not going to end up doing.

Except now the deal is so much worse. Now for Ukraine, the deal is going to be giving away probably 20% of your country, maybe more. We'll see. 20% if Russia will allow you to do that. Crimea gone forever. And you're still not getting any security guarantees. And so...

For Zelensky to be demanding this. Anyway, my point is just like, once again, if you had listened to all the anti-war voices, just objectively, we were right. These guys were wrong. And all of their bullshit war propaganda about how Ukraine can win. I mean, do you even remember, Rob, when Vladimir Putin first invaded in 22, the talking point that Joe Biden repeated over and over again was that we could defeat them with sanctions. Right.

that we wouldn't even need to send weapons that we could defeat russia with sanctions this is what and they just over and and anyway they kept the whole war going this entire time and so

Whatever. It's been a complete disaster. But one of the good things about this, as you kind of said just now, Rob, you're like, the answer is dump this guy. And this is one of the things where I think that like Donald Trump, as is typical with him, even when he is instinctually correct, like when his gut essentially leads him in the right direction, he's not.

philosophically correct and he's not well read. And so even when his gut is like, uh, kind of right, his, his instincts are correct, but because he's, he doesn't have like a, a solid like theory around the whole thing. And because he, he doesn't have like a deep understanding of the issue, uh,

He can be pulled in bad directions. And so Donald Trump will look at, say, like just like the terror wars and he'll be like, wait a minute. So you're telling me we occupied Afghanistan for 20 years. We occupied Iraq for 20 years. We spent eight trillion dollars and we got nothing to show for it. You know, and like that's bad business. Then you're like, OK, that is correct. You got it right.

Now, he doesn't have like this theory to go with it. You know what I'm saying? He doesn't have like a theory of like, what is a just war? What is a war of choice versus a war of necessity? What is a war of aggression? What is a constitutional war? What you know, like that's not how Donald Trump's mind works. It's just business, right? This is bad business. This is a stupid decision. And so,

And on top of that, it's not like he really has a deep understanding of the issue. Like he doesn't really understand that. Like, oh, the neoconservatives and the Likudniks had this plan to topple all of these regimes. And then they use 9-11. They use the terrorists that they pissed off into attacking us as the, you know, like that's not where Donald Trump's mind is. But the problem with that, look, it's still better than anything we've had from a president in my lifetime by far. But the problem is that.

Well, when it's instinctual and it's not married to like philosophy and knowledge, then if Donald Trump's like, oh, this is stupid, we shouldn't even be in Syria. You know, why are we even fighting this war? They go like, well, what if we took the oil?

And he goes, hmm, all right. Now that's slightly better business. You know what I mean? Like Donald Trump's very it's easy for him to get sucked into things like that. And so I think in this case, Donald Trump was kind of presenting to Zelensky like, look, do this mineral deal in Donald Trump's mind. He goes, now we get something out of it.

This isn't like bad business anymore. Now it's just a business deal where there's some benefit to us. And also now, like, since we're in business with you, doesn't that kind of give you a little bit of a security guarantee? You know, because what Putin's messing with you now he's messing with us.

But the truth is that that's just all a bad idea. Like the whole point is that we don't want to put ourselves in that position. Why would we want to put ourselves in that position? Why would we ever want to say we will inherit all of your problems? It just doesn't make any sense. Like, it's like, like, look, man, I don't know. I like, I want everyone's everyone to have a happy marriage.

marriage or a happy life or a happy whatever, you know, success in their career. Hey, I hope everyone does well. Right. But like, I would never say to somebody else, hey, if your marriage falls apart, my marriage falls apart, too.

I'm tied right there with you. You know, like I want to be if your wife cheats on you, then I'll take that as they cheated on all of us or something like that. It's like this just does not make any sense. We don't want to be in these entangling alliances. This is how you never stop fighting wars when you decide you're going to inherit the problems of everyone all around the world. Like, I don't know. There's a bunch of small states that used to be Soviet satellites that are now satellites.

quasi-independent or American sock puppets or whatever. There's these little states next to Russia and they got to deal with that. And yeah, that sucks. I don't know. A lot of them are concerned about that. This is always every debate that I have on this topic. It's always like the retort from the people who have been pushing this war. Like, well, why do you think it is that all the Baltic states wanted to join NATO? Yeah, obviously, because they got Russia next to them and they

love a big superpower to guarantee their security. But that doesn't mean that it's in our interest to do that. And so what's great about this happening, why I think this is such a positive ultimately, is that maybe what Donald Trump said at the end there ends up being the final thing. I guess it's impossible to do business with this guy. Okay, so how about this? No mineral deal, no security guarantee, you get nothing.

Why is that so crazy? How about you get nothing? Okay. We will negotiate with Vladimir Putin to a peaceful resolution to this war and you will fucking take it because what are you going to do? Nothing.

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And if you don't, you and Europe are on your own. I mean, if we go, hey, we're out of this mess, we're not funding it, and Russia said, agree to a ceasefire and you want to continue it, and then Europe steps in and goes, well, we'll back the effort, just be done with all of it.

I'm not going to go read up on what even the propaganda pitches for NATO, which I assume it's less people are spending money on arms and we've got allies. But I look at the charts of how much money we're spending on essentially European security defense, and I don't understand it.

Oh, yeah. Face value. I can't give you a gut shot like, oh, that makes sense. It certainly doesn't seem practical. Yeah. What was the I always blank on the title of this piece, but I want to see if I can pull it up right now. But the Bill Buckley piece, because it's

Totalitarian bureaucracy. Yeah. What's the Natalie? I'm sorry. I can't multitask for shit. But can you just look up Bill Buckley totalitarian bureaucracy and see what's the first hit that you get on that?

Um, because this is like, by the way, it's, it's the same. Cause when you say like, what is the official propaganda for what, uh, NATO even is. Okay. There we go. Yeah. Yes. This is it. It was, um,

What was it? Right-wing critics of Americans. Oh, yeah. I got it right there. It's called The Party and the Deep Blue Sea, which was a piece that Buckley wrote in 1952. So if you think this is 1952, this is seven years after World War II wrapped up. Now, the...

But so anyway, but the two things are somewhat similar. But in this piece, Bill Buckley, essentially, he starts out by arguing that essentially libertarians are right, that he's like, listen, you know, libertarianism. I mean, I don't think he would have called it that because that wasn't the term at the time. But he was basically like, look.

you guys are right. The people who believe in individual liberty and limited government, you guys are correct. And he says some beautiful things like the first paragraph or two, you'd be like, Oh my God, is this guy an anarcho capitalist? Like, he's just like a part. He's totally one of us. And,

And so he's talking about he's like, listen, the greatest battle in human history is between tyranny and liberty. The greatest instrument of tyranny is the state. And this is why we always, you know, good conservatives always support the most restrained government you possibly can get. If the government is totally restrained, then make sure you restrain it some more because it is the instrument of tyranny and all of this. And then there's the but.

And his butt is, but other government, see, we got this Soviet Union. And since there's the Soviet Union, I mean, I understand what you libertarians are talking about. But here you have the biggest experiment in totalitarian government, the government running everything, and they're hell bent on world domination. And so listen, as much as it sucks.

The only thing that can stand up to this threat is a government military. And so even though we really don't want to do any of this, we have to build up a huge military to roll back the threat of statism. And he even says in the article, which is why we got this from, uh, um, from Googling, uh, totalitarian bureaucracy, because that's the, uh, um, the, uh,

the line that he has, let me see if I could find it here. But he says, he literally says that we need to create a totalitarian bureaucracy within our own shores. Now, again, if you could get past how fucking retarded that argument is, it's literally like, it's, it's like saying that there's a guy outside with a gun threatening to shoot me in the face. And so I have to shoot myself in the face with my own gun.

Like if you're creating a totalitarian bureaucracy in order to prevent a totalitarian bureaucracy from taking you over, then you've already lost by definition. Right. So anyway, the argument made no sense. Bill Buckley is a very smart guy. He was not that stupid. He was just working for the CIA and his job was to convince conservatives to support big military. So anyway, but anyway,

But so from this is just my point to you about I'm getting to my point about the NATO propaganda. But so so essentially, just so people understand the Cold War propaganda was that we're only doing this because of the Soviet Union.

We would not be. We're with you libertarians. We want to just love liberty and prosperity and be a peaceful, normal country. But there's this Soviet Union. So we have to do all of this. And then in 1989, the Berlin Wall comes down. Germany is there's reunification in Germany. The Cold War ends. And so then all of those neoconservatives were like, OK,

No more military industrial complex. No more going around the world searching for monsters to destroy. Now we can once again embrace liberty and small government. Oh, no, that's right. They were like, hey, we got to go see about Saddam Hussein. He's in a slant drilling conflict with his neighbor, Kuwait. You know, we had to go protect the democracy of Kuwait.

So we had, and this is when they ramped up the first war, uh, under George H.W. Bush, the first war in Iraq, the first, the first war, uh, American war of my lifetime. I was a little kid. I was like seven or eight or something like that. What was it? It was a 91. I was born in 83. So I was eight. Uh,

I remember George H.W. Bush announcing that we were invading on TV, but it interrupted The Simpsons or whatever. It's like, come on, let me get back to The Simpsons. Anyway, my point is, likewise, if you had listened to the propaganda, the official propaganda for 40 years during the Cold War, they would have told you that if the Soviet Union went away, NATO would also disband. Right.

The official propaganda, there was never any justification for why we would have NATO if there wasn't a Soviet Union. The whole point of NATO...

was to be an anti-Soviet military alliance. And essentially what happened, right, was that after World War II, all of Europe was destroyed. And the big victors who came out of it was America and Russia and the Soviet Union at the time. And now, OK, you could say England also won the war, but England was fucking wrecked.

The Soviet satellites were all destroyed. Russia itself had taken heavy fighting. America was kind of the only country who fought in World War II but did all the fighting abroad.

The fighting wasn't here. I mean, with Pearl Harbor out there, which really still isn't mainland the United States of America. But aside from the attack on Pearl Harbor, there were no attacks here. And so the thinking was I'm not even saying this is justified, but the thinking was, OK, Europe is destroyed. The Soviet Union is this big superpower right here next to Europe.

And so we have to like, OK, we'll accept that they get the eastern half of Europe, but we're going to guarantee for the western half that if you guys move on this side, you're picking a fight with America. OK, well, that's all over after 1991 that the Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore. And all those eastern European countries got their independence. What's the justification for NATO now?

If you ask anyone and I've asked several people, you just get a bunch of googly gock. Like it'll just be like the global community and working together and ensuring peace, keeping the peace and promoting, you know, whatever. It's like they have nothing. There is no reason for us to be a part of NATO whatsoever that we're not under post World War Two conditions.

Europe has not been destroyed by a war and they're poor and we're the only rich country. Europe is rich. There's a bunch of rich countries in Europe. They can pay for their own defense. Vladimir Putin, as of right now, the latest estimate I saw is that Russia has about a $2 trillion GDP. Understand that's how big and scary Russia is. Their entire GDP is less than a third of

of what our government spends every year. Forget our entire economy. There is no reason why Europe can't just have their own security plans that don't involve us. And by the way, we're $36 trillion in debt. We can't really afford to pick up everybody's security anymore. And...

The idea that we're going to not only pick up their security, but the security of the most further. Like, we're not even talking about the original NATO plan. It's never guaranteeing security for Poland, let alone Ukraine. They were talking about we didn't even guarantee security for East Germany. It was from the Elbe River West border.

was what we guaranteed when the Soviet Union existed. And you're telling me now, when there is no communism, there is no Soviet threat, that we got to guarantee security for the Donbass region? This is just like, it's so insane. There is never, there is no one who has ever put forward a coherent defense for that position.

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i'll say something real crazy first is i feel that uh both europe and the american left and by that i mean the senators and politicians and some of the vocal voices the deep states such as uh mustache man and brennan who are all on the news seem to be working against the american interest in trying to keep this ukraine war going and uh here's my uh tinfoil hat theory is that i think

Listen, there's been a big charade of endless money that's available for everyone all the time, courtesy of the Fed that gives us the system of wealth that doesn't actually exist. And I wonder if we actually have a splintering where we go, hey, we're not doing this NATO thing anymore. And then all of a sudden Europe goes broke because they're responsible for their own security. And you end up with some big worldwide financial depression because the signal of the

endless money which that bill will come due at some point there's going to be austerity nationwide i mean worldwide because that money just you don't you can't endlessly print money i wonder if that if that's kind of what i don't usually use this term but almost the globalists are contending with

is that america is going hey we don't want to spend money everywhere for everyone all the time we're running up too much debt this isn't going to work long term and one of the easy things to kind of get out of might be security guarantees for the entire world because that doesn't make a lot of sense particularly when the rest of the world is talking us into fights that we don't want to be in in this case it's zielinski trying to get american support to continue the ukraine war and then europe stepping in

really contending with what looks like our budget because they got us back in them through NATO. So I guess they can go pick the fight, which just keeps us in the fight, which is why we need to walk away. But it would seem to me like the biggest risk on the table there might be, uh, Europe not actually being able to fund it and then signaling the issues that have kind of been in the financial sector forever. Yeah. Well, it is, um,

That's an interesting kind of way to look at it. And there's no, you know, I mean, I guess I would disagree that it's like, it's not that austerity is guaranteed in the future, but it's, there's limited choices. So it's, I think there's essentially three. There is austerity. That is the moderate position. Then there are, there is default and hyperinflation. Yeah.

Those are your other options. But default would probably have to come with austerity measures after it. I don't think you – Well, I think technically it's not – I think technically that wouldn't be austerity, but I get your point. It would in effect be the same thing. So you'd in effect have to have drastic cuts in spending. I just mean that it's like you wouldn't necessarily – you wouldn't have to like –

You know, it wouldn't be a situation of like we owe this debt and therefore we have to cut down on these programs to pay off this debt. It would more just be like, oh, we don't have any debt anymore because we just defaulted on all of that debt. And, oh, we can't borrow money at the same rate anymore because no one's going to lend us money after we just defaulted on the debt. And so, yeah, there's no money for these programs.

it's, it's in effect, basically, I think the same thing. Um, but I did want to read this before we wrap up today. And then I guess, you know, we could even save some of the, uh, the media reaction to all of this for, for next time. Cause I don't think we're really going to have time to enjoy it as much as it deserves to be, uh, enjoyed, but Tucker Carlson posted this. Um, and I found this to be very interesting and to be clear, you know, there's,

All of the stuff that I kind of specialize in when it comes to like foreign policy stuff, it's never. And even someone like, say, Scott Horton, who he does have. And I guess this just comes from being in the game for a long time. I mean, I know I've gotten like a little bit of this now from from being in this world for a while where you actually do have like some insiders, right?

You know, you have people who are like, like close to the president who you'll have a phone call with and they'll be like, hey, this just happened or this just happened. And you start getting like some more. But none of what I ever if you look at any of my clips on Rogan or on Tucker or any of that, that's never what I'm saying. I'm never going like, look, I know people at the Pentagon and they're telling me this. I know someone who's there. That's not I'm always just talking about what.

is just the official record. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, oh, look, even the New York Times and the Washington Post admitted this. And even the four-star general, Wesley Clark, admitted this. And even these guys. And then we all know we did this, but they wrote this policy paper that said this is really the reason they're doing it. What Tucker's talking about here is a little bit more of, you know, because he isn't, he's an insider in a different type of way. The guy lived in Washington, D.C. for, I think, 30 years or something like that was, you know,

a journalist, a TV host, and, uh, you know, ran a, um, uh, an online publication is, you know, he was in DC, like mixed in with these people. But anyway, so this was, uh, um, the post that I wanted to just read real quick. And this was from Tucker Carlson. Uh,

Tucker says, one of the most striking things about yesterday's Zelensky press conference was Lindsey Graham's reaction to it. The two are old friends, but Graham disavowed him within the hour. This was more than just transactional disloyalty. It was scapegoating. Lindsey Graham knows what's coming. Over the past three years, with the tacit support of its Western patrons, patrons,

The Ukrainian government has committed a remarkable number of serious crimes. The Ukrainians sold huge quantities of American weapons on the international black market at 20 cents on the dollar. These weapons are now in the hands of armed groups around the world, including Hamas, the Mexican drug cartels, and the forces now controlling Syria.

God knows what the Ukrainians have done with the pathogens in American bio labs in their country. Even U.S. Intel agencies aren't sure. The Ukrainians have also murdered a number of people in various countries in political assassinations and tried to murder others, including American journalists and a European head of state. This is all true, and it's all going to come out at some point. Better to start blaming it on Zelensky now.

So that's what Tucker's saying. And I will say that I know Tucker well enough that like I'll say with like 100 percent certainty that Tucker isn't just saying this. Now, I'm not I'm not saying with 100 percent certainty that he's right about every claim in there. I just don't know. But I do know.

Like, I know him and I know that he's not just saying he's saying this because this is what he's hearing from people who are in the know. And that is just a whole nother very interesting wrinkle into all of this, that it is quite possible because it was a little bit strange that.

to hearing Lindsey Graham throw Zelensky under the bus right away. Now, you could argue that this is just that Lindsey Graham's like, look, I want to keep this war going. And now that this guy pissed off Donald Trump so far, he cannot be the guy to keep the war going. So we need a new guy to come in who flatters Donald Trump and then can keep the war going. But it is also quite possible that like, look,

I mean, I'm sure like you too, Rob, like I've heard the rumors about a lot of this stuff. I don't know exactly how true some of it is or any of it. But it is interesting that, I mean, look, when you just know the nature of governments and then particularly, you know, the nature of wartime governments and then, you know, the amount of money that's being flooded over there, there are I say there's almost no question that.

That there are serious crimes and huge scandals that have been committed that just haven't come out yet. And that is another interesting wrinkle into all of this to see like what we might learn now. And now that Trump has given, you know, the majority of Americans who support Donald Trump kind of given them license to be like, no, fuck this guy.

Now it might be open season on revealing some of this stuff and then being able to blame it on Zelensky, even though there's probably a lot more people who are guilty than just Voldemir.

All right. Any any other thoughts, Rob, or you want to call it a show? Look forward to the next one. And we can look at the all the senators, the liberal senators getting on the news shows to go. Donald Trump, we told you he's a Putin asset and that's why he turned on Zelensky. And this is an embarrassment for the American people. So, oh, my God, that would be the card. And who knew that they would actually pick it up and play it? Yeah. All the way down to Bernie Sanders.

Oh my God. It's so painful. All right. We'll get into all of that on, uh, on tomorrow's episode. All right. Check out the run your mouth podcast. Rob's other fantastic show comic Dave Smith.com. Come see us on the road, Buffalo, Canada, Boston coming up real soon. All right. Thanks for listening guys. Catch you next time. Peace.