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So the big debate when I was eight or nine years old was, do you love Bobby Sherman or do you love David Cassidy? These guys were the absolute teen idols of the time and everybody loved one or the other. Naturally for me, it was Bobby Sherman.

I didn't like Bobby Sherman. I loved Bobby Sherman. He was incredibly, indescribably handsome. He was on a TV show called Here Come the Brides.

And he had this full mop of gorgeous hair that was sort of all combed in one direction across his forehead. I mean, really, it was just like the Beatles, which was, of course, irresistible. And he wore these kind of big, blousy, very groovy shirts. And he was, be still my beating heart, perfect. And Bobby had a big hit song called Julie, Do You Love Me?

Julie, Julie, Julie, do you love me? Julie, Julie, Julie, do you care? Julie, Julie, are you thinking of me? Julie, Julie, will you still be there? I mean, I didn't like being called Julie because my name is Julia. But Bobby didn't know that when he wrote that song for me.

He and I were meant to be together if there had just been some way for us to meet. So at the age of eight, I decided I would write a letter to Bobby Sherman. Not a fan letter, but a personal love letter. I can't remember now all the details of my letter, but I certainly can remember how it opened because it was so fucking clever. It went like this.

Dear Bobby, I think you're really cute. How's that for a start? With a heart at the bottom of the question mark instead of a period, because that's what the cool second graders did back then. But the real clincher...

I was going to enclose a photograph, a photograph that was guaranteed, goddamn guaranteed to make him love me back. Now, at this time in my life, I had two items of clothing in my closet that I knew were can't miss sure things. The first was a two-piece pink ruffle gingham bathing suit with bottoms that went all the way up to my waist. In my mind, this was, of course, a bikini.

I have recently looked at some pictures of me in the aforementioned bikini, and honestly, with the ruffles on the back, it looks like I'm still wearing a diaper. It really does. The second item from my closet, a pair of vinyl white, almost knee-high go-go boots.

Do you hear what I just said? Go-go boots. I knew that either one of these would probably have been enough to seal the deal with Bobby. But together, the bikini and the boots? Fuck.

Forget it. He was as good as mine. So I put on my bikini and my go-go boots and I walked my eight-year-old ass downstairs with a camera and I told my mom that I needed her to take a picture of me because I wanted to send it along with my personal love letter to Bobby Sherman.

You guys, you see, you have to understand something. I knew, I just knew in my heart that when Bobby saw this picture and read my note, we would be together for the rest of our lives. We were meant to be together. So anyway, I asked my mom to take the picture and struck a pose and she laughed, which I have to say, I'm still quite pissed about. She didn't even acknowledge the infallibility of my plan. She laughed.

And then she said no, which of course makes sense now, considering I'd essentially asked her to help me send what they might now call a sext or worse. But back then, I was so insulted and

I threw a proper tantrum big time. I may have been eight, but this was like a two-year-old on the floor screaming, pounding fists tantrum. I remember it so vividly. God, I was so mad. And it really is a shame that she didn't take that picture because God, I really wish I had it now.

I was so fierce standing there in my bikini and go-go boots, convinced all I needed to make my dreams come true was this one special outfit. This was the first time I understood or really thought about the power of a look. I still feel that way when I put on the right dress for the Oscars or any red carpet show or feel exactly right in an outfit for a fucking hike.

That's the power of fashion, how you feel inside of it when everything is working and you know it. What a feeling. And so today, of course, we're talking to Diane von Furstenberg. Hi, I'm Julia Louis-Dreyfus, and this is Wiser Than Me, a show where each week I get schooled by women who are wiser than me. What a night!

Well, hold on to your freaking wrap dresses, people, because our guest today has been at the forefront of the fashion world for over five decades. And guess what? She's not done yet. Not even close. Remember how not that long ago, everything all of a sudden was a brand? Do you know what I mean? Shoes, computers, entertainment, people, everything's like a brand now.

Well, way before that, decades even, Diane von Furstenberg became one of the original brands by creating clothes that celebrate the strength and independence of women. She had the vision to see exactly where women wanted to go in fashion, and she turned that vision into a global empire, one chic little outfit at a time. And then she banked her success, and she started doing all kinds of good for all kinds of people.

Thank you.

She has the brains, the beauty, the confidence, and the skill to make it in an industry that caters mainly to women, but is still most often run by men. She's willing to share herself with us as an author, designer, and philanthropist. So please welcome a woman who is wiser than me, Diane von Furstenberg. Hello. Wow. That was quite an entrance. Yeah, that's quite an entrance you've just made.

So are you comfortable if I say your real age, Diane? Oh, yes. I'm 76. But I really, really should be 300. Why? Well, because I've had a very full life. I've done a lot of things, lots of travels, lots of people, lots of... So I feel like there's no way I can make myself even a day younger because I feel like I have lived...

Very much every moment. Oh, it's so nice. But how do you feel inside? What age do you feel? Do you feel 300? No way. No. Well, I feel my age. I feel that I have lived every single day of my life. In that life, in that short life, even though I'm 76, I...

I have piled up so much that I certainly could not feel any younger. I am who I am. So I get the sense you love being your age.

Well, I love being alive. Yeah. That's how long I have been alive. So, yes. Yeah, yeah. Got it. Of course, I'm going to join the millions of people who want to talk about the wrap dress. So indulge me for a second. There's such a universality to the wrap dress. It changed my life, that wrap dress. What's your story? Okay, here's my story.

I was born in the early 60s. So by the time I became a teenager in the, you know, 70s, being super thin was the only way to be. And I was not. I was a little bit heavyset, but I had a small waist.

Okay. And I'm going to tell you honestly that your dress was, I think, the first sort of fashion-y thing that I wore that made me feel like, oh, I don't mind my body so much. Oh, nice. That's good. And you were how old? I'm going to say I was 16. 16?

15? Uh-huh. Do you remember your first souvenir? What is it that you did in that dress? Well, I had multiple of your dresses. I had many of them. Here's one of my favorites, which I'm going to ask my team to pull up to show you on the computer right now. This is me in your dress. Oh, you look hot. Yes.

Oh, how about that? Diane von Furstenberg said I look hot. Oh, you look super hot. I need that picture. Okay. I want a copy of that picture. It needs to go in my archive. Oh, absolutely. Let me tell you, just for our listeners, I'm wearing, of course, the wrap dress and it's in the fabulous leopard print. And actually, you know where I was going? I was going to a Paul McCartney concert.

Wow. Yeah, he was performing at some benefit or something in Los Angeles and I wore this. And I think I even still have the bra that's underneath it. It's still in my possession. You look hot. Thank you. Oh, I'm so happy that you said this. That's made my week that you said that. You look hot. So listen, let's talk about clothes for a second. Diane, are there any staples you think a woman should have in her closet?

I think the most important thing is to be true to yourself and to like yourself as much as possible. So obviously, the staple should be what you are comfortable in and something that represents you at the best way or that allows you to be yourself, you know? And listen, when I created that dress, I had no idea that I would...

I would eventually sell tens of millions of them. Unbelievable. But it did something. It awakens things in people. And I don't know. So, you know, I mean, I created the wrap dress, but truly it's the dress that created me because it gave me my freedom. It gave me my independence. It gave me my identity. So...

It's one of those things. But as far as I think every woman, like you have a small waist. So wrap dresses obviously look good on you. I don't really have a small waist. So I go for more fluid. But every one of us finds something that we have a tendency to go to. To accentuate like, you mean? Yeah. And it becomes your personality and your style. And so...

For DVF, it's about making clothes, thinking about all the different morphology of a woman, with the one who likes to accentuate the waist, the one who doesn't, and therefore you go fluid, and the ones who are very body calm, who like to show the entire body. Then you deal with the fabric. Fabrication is so important. And then, of course, we have colors and we have prints.

So in DVF, the colors are our letters. The prints are the words. The fabrication and the silhouette makes the sentence. Nice.

But do you have other staples that you like in your closet? You know, I'm thinking of something like some people in the past have said to me, every woman needs to have a perfect white blouse or something. Do you think that's stupid or do you think that makes sense? No, I don't think that's stupid. I don't think I have a white blouse, actually. Do you want me to get you a white blouse? No, not particularly. Okay.

You know, but I could tell you, I would say everybody needs a black turtleneck. Ah, this is good to know. Let's talk about aging and body changes and how to embrace all of that. How have you embraced all of that as you've gotten older? Okay, first of all,

The word aging, I would change the word aging and say living, right? Oh, thank you. That's perfect. Perfect. Age is life. Yes. So instead of saying, how old are you? People should say, how long have you lived? Oh, my God. Yes. I'm going to change this. And automatically it changes everything, even to a child. Oh,

How long have you lived, little boy? I have lived 11 years. Wow. That's impressive. Yeah. And then if you ask an older person, I have lived 76 years. Wow. You know, so aging for me is life.

It is not a decay. Yes, yes, yes. It's a continuation of life. Yes. It's a completely different framing, and I applaud it. Right. So for me, aging is the proof of living. And also, if you have, if you manage to be my age, well, it's already, I mean, I thought I was going to die before I was 30.

Why? Why? Because I had done so much in my 20s that I didn't think that it was possible to continue like that. I see. And so I thought that all these things, I had two children by the time I was 24. I had a successful business. I bought my house.

So I did basically everything before I was 30. So I used to think that that would be the end, and then it turned out not to be. Yeah. Wow. I love that framing. How long have you lived? I'm really going to apply that to the way I speak now. I think it's brilliant, actually. Well, then I'm going to rephrase this question for you. Do you think there are things that women who have lived a long time—

should not wear. And here's why I asked you this question. Let me tell you something. So I was on a vacation, right? And you know how when you go on vacation and you go into a, you get sort of caught up in the culture of where you are and maybe, and what people are wearing and maybe it's in a different country or whatever. Anyway, long story short, I was in this shop and they were selling these cute culottes.

And I put them on and I'd forgotten how, because I wore culottes when I was a little girl, but I had forgotten how unbelievably comfortable culottes were. And I was like, oh my God, I think I've got to own these. But I wasn't sure. And I thought, oh, maybe this is just a moment. I'm going to put them on hold. I'm going to go have some lunch. So I put them on hold and then I went to go have lunch and I was thinking about, should I buy them or not? And as I'm thinking about that, one of my teeth fell out of my mouth.

I don't know why, but all of a sudden my tooth fell out. And I thought that was a sign that perhaps I had lived a little bit too long to start running around in culottes. Actually, I think you could wear a culotte until you're 90. What if you don't have any teeth in your mouth? No, I'm kidding. You think you can wear culottes until you're 90? Yeah. I mean, it depends how short they are. I mean, I don't think you should try to look sexy because that looks ridiculous.

You mean in culottes or generally speaking? What are you talking about? No, just in behavior. I think it's beautiful to live who you are. And you are, you know, you are accumulation of all your life. So the most important thing is to be true to yourself. As long as you're true to yourself, you are free.

By the way, you know, on your Instagram, the picture that you posted of yourself in your bathing suit, you look so beautiful and so strong. And I just wanted to applaud you for it. I just I thought it was inspirational. That was two years ago, I think. Yeah. For my 74th birthday. Yeah. Yeah. I have a tendency to think.

that, at least in my case, when I look at myself in the mirror, I find my strength there. So somehow, when I look at myself in the mirror, I like it. And then sometimes I see a picture of me and I say, oh, my God, that's not how I feel. What about this word? Well, again, I'm going to use this word aging, which I shouldn't.

But I will for this question I wanted to ask you about. You know that phrase, aging gracefully? I feel like there's a lot to unpack there because... Well, just call it living gracefully. Living gracefully, right. But it has a lot of different meanings to different people and the idea of...

how to present yourself as a person who has lived a long time and, you know, and the judgment about plastic surgery or not to have plastic surgery and all that stuff. I don't judge anyone. Everyone has the right to do whatever they want. Right. I have a tendency, since I'm a little girl, to find a tiny bit destroyed look attractive. Oh.

Because it's lived. Yes. You know? So I like the lived. I never wanted to be a little girl. I always wanted to be a woman. I always aged myself. By the time I got to be 20, my mother said, how does it feel to be 20? And I remember I told her, I've been saying I'm 20 for the last five years. So I've never...

Wanted to be younger. I always look forward to be older. I think that's incredible because I've had the exact same experience. Exactly. I always wanted to get older. I really did. It was like, even, I have to tell you, this is going to sound strange, but even when I started to develop as a teenager and my breasts started coming in and I noticed that they were very...

upright and I used to push them down because I wanted them to look like my mother's breasts that would hang a little bit more and I would push them down because it drove me crazy and it's funny you say that I used to put Kleenex in my bra because I didn't have any breasts so you know we never like what we are yeah I know yeah more with Diane von Furstenberg after the break

Hey, Prime members. Did you know you can listen to Wiser Than Me ad-free on Amazon Music? Download the Amazon Music app today to start listening ad-free.

Hey, Julia Louis-Dreyfus here. If you listen to me on my Wiser Than Me podcast, you probably already know that I'm an investor and an evangelist for the Mill Food Recycler. There are a lot of reasons to love Mill, but for me, it's all about the impact. Keeping food out of the garbage is one of the most powerful things we can do to help the planet every single day.

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This episode of Wiser Than Me is supported by Boehringer Ingelheim, the maker of NexGuard Plus, Afoxyloner, Moxodectin, and Pyrantel chewable tablets. Would you do anything for your dog? Of course you would. Whether you're planning a dog birthday party or finding the perfect sweater-booty combo to keep your pup warm, prioritizing your furry friend's happiness is always the wise thing to do.

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and how our culture here particularly can make you doubt yourself. What has that experience been like for you? I mean, how did you become a confident leader? Is that something you had to cultivate or it came to you naturally? Well, I never really thought of me as a leader. I prefer to think that I'm an inspirer.

You know, I prefer to inspire rather than lead. But aren't you in charge, Diane?

Yes, but you know, I mean, to be in charge is first and foremost a commitment to ourselves. It's owning who we are. We own our imperfection. They become assets. We own our vulnerability. We turn it into strength. Yes. So to be in charge is really got to do with yourself. Yes.

And everything has got to do with the relationship you have with yourself. Because the most important relationship in life is the one you have with yourself. Once you have that, any other relationship is a plus and not a must.

And I never want to be needy ever to anyone. For me, the most important thing is to be self-reliant. My children, I mean, for me, loving your children is making them independent. That's how you love your children, because you equip them for life. What would be a vulnerability that you would own that would then somehow become an asset? I mean,

I mean, you know, I mean, I was very successful, extremely young, right? By 26, 27, I was on the cover of all the magazine. I mean, I was an entrepreneur and this. But you go up, you go up. What goes up must go down. Yes. You face difficulties. You go through all kinds of things. And what is important is not to pretend you're not.

But facing it, facing the obstacles, facing the difficulties and owning them and dealing with them. And then all of a sudden you turn them into assets. I don't get the sense you hold back how you're feeling. Do you let people know how you're feeling?

You see, the thing that explains who I am is the fact that 18 months before I was born, my mother was liberated from Auschwitz. She weighed 49 pounds. She was a skeleton in the midst of a field of ashes. She couldn't move. She could not move. She went back to Belgium. Her mother couldn't believe that she had survived. She was 21 years old.

And she fed her like a little bird every 10 minutes. And within six months, she looked normal. Her fiancé, who had been in Switzerland, came. They met.

They get married, and the doctor said, "No matter what, you cannot have a child for at least two years because you will not make it and your child will not be normal." And sure enough, she got pregnant, and I was born nine months later.

And in a sense, you could say I was not normal. But the fact that I was so close to that, my existence, my mere birth was a triumph over misery. And therefore, just the fact that I was born was a triumph. I had won just because I was born. And my mother used to say, God saved me so that I can give you life.

By giving you life, you gave me my life back. You are my torch of freedom. So I was born with a torch of freedom in my hands, which as a little girl could be difficult. My mother, for example, would never allow me to be afraid. If I was afraid of the dark,

She would lock me in a dark closet. Today, she could be arrested for it, but she made me fearless. And I'm thankful that she did that. She never wanted me to be a victim, never be a victim, no matter what happens. And

And that's how you build your character. Because the only thing that you have complete control of, the only thing is your character. You could lose your health. You could lose your wealth. You could lose your job. You could lose your husband. You could lose your family. You could lose everything. But you never lose your character. And that character is the little house inside yourself that is called space.

And did you take those lessons that you learned from your mother and did you apply them to being a mother yourself?

Yes. And my mother was also alive when my children were growing up. My mother died. They were already, both my children were parents. Oh, wow. She gave that survival strength to them as well. Yes. And we all have that incredible survival thing. Is there an example that you can recall in your life where you've confronted fear and

and looked it in the face and overcome it. Is there anything specific that you could tell us about?

I mean, I don't know. I mean, 28 years ago, I was diagnosed with cancer. Yeah. I mean, that's never pleasant. No. But I dealt with it. You know, I say, okay, this is what happened. This is what the doctor can do. This is what I can do. And I just dealt with it. Right. And I mean, you know, my mother told me fear is not an option. So fear...

is always pushed away. Because, I mean, if you push the fear away, everything stays the same. But at least you could deal with that without the fear, you know? Right. And I have a new trick.

A friend of mine lately was, she was going through very, very difficult medical tests and it was very painful. And she called me, she's in California, I'm in New York. And she calls me and it's 12 o'clock for me and I don't know what to tell her. And so I don't know what happened to me. I said, you know what?

Tomorrow when you do that, push your fear away, push your emotion, and just go through it like you were watching a documentary. And the next day she called me and she said, you know, it was so helpful. So now that's my new trick. Huh. It's stepping outside yourself and looking back in. Changing your lens. Changing your lens. Yeah. I had cancer too, and I was terrified. Right.

I didn't have your mother's advice in my ear, but what I did do was take one step at a time. Exactly. I approached it as if it were something to be approached in manageable parts, and that's exactly what I did. You know? Yeah. Talk about relaxing things.

How do you relax? What do you do to relax? Relax also is a weird word. What should I say instead? Empty the noise, you know. It's empty the corridor. Silence, solitude. That is what is the most restorative thing. So I need to be alone. I need to be in nature. Yes, solitude, silence, all of that.

is very restorative. Yeah, I find the same. I'm a big hiker. Me too. Yeah. Me too. And if you go by yourself, it's an entirely different experience. And swimming. Yes. I swim a lot. Yes. I swim a lot in the ocean, very far. And therefore, I'm alone between the sea and the sky. And I'm just this tiny little dot.

And I go into deep meditation. And that is probably the most restorative thing. You know, I've taken up swimming recently, too. Let me ask you something. What do you do about the sun when you're out there? Do you wear like a full body UV suit? I got one of those, too, that blocks the sun. Because then, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, otherwise I would burn because I swam two hours at the time. So I could not do that unless I wore something. Two hours? My God in heaven. What does that mean? How many miles are you going? That's a couple of miles, is it not? No, no. It's maybe one mile.

Yeah, maybe one mile. I mean, we're very lucky we have a boat. And so I go far in the ocean, in the sea, and there's a tiny little boat that follows me, but very far. And I go through all the meditation,

I have these sutras that Deepak Chopra taught. So I have this routine that I go. And by the time I'm finished with the whole routine, and then they become prayers. And then I think about each one of my children, my grandchildren. So the whole ceremony of my meditation process

Takes about an hour and a half because then I turn and I say, how long have I been in? And usually they say between an hour 10 and another 30 and an hour. And then I stay a little longer. Have you been meditating a long time, your whole life?

I, you know, I'm not, I should meditate more, more consciously. But I do, I do empty, I do empty my mind. Yes, I do that. Otherwise, I couldn't be. I hate, I hate the noise. I don't like small talk. I don't like any of that. And I love nature. I mean, nature for me is everything.

As long as I have nature on one side and my phone and the internet, I don't need any. My conversation with Diane von Furstenberg continues after the break.

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Spring is here and summer's just around the corner. Honestly, besides the warmer weather, half the fun of this time of year is planning your summer vacation, right? Deciding where to go, figuring out where you'll stay, and picturing yourself soaking up the sun or exploring somewhere totally new. But while you're off making amazing memories, what about your place?

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You deserve to feel great. Book your virtual visit today at joinmidi.com. That's joinmidi.com. Let me ask you this question. Was there ever a time in your life that you struggled financially or were you, but you sort of hit it big from the get-go?

No, I struggled. Yeah, I did struggle. In the beginning? You mean before the wrap dress or in between? No, no, no. I mean, I, you know, after my big success, you know. Yes. Yeah, I had a lot of very stressful moments. Yes. Yeah. But, you know, you forget. You forget the bad things. Like you forget the physical pain. You forget it. Right. Once it's done, you forget it.

So, and every single thing, every negative experience in your life ends up being an experience and turns into something. That's another trick that I always tell my friends, you know, sometimes you

You know, my friend, I mean, I don't know, they do a movie or they do a book and it's not, or their company is going bankruptcy. They get bad press and they just feel so bad. And I always say the same thing. I said, this moment that is so hard will be the best anecdote when you write your book or you tell your TED Talk.

Turn it into an asset, right? That's right. Yeah, it's funny because, not to keep going back to this, but when I had cancer, and it's funny you say that, which was just very wicked, and I was in production. We had to shut down production, right? Whoa. For almost a year. And because I was, you know, normally I would have kept something like that completely private and to myself because...

It was because it is so private. But in this case, I really had to make a statement about it because everybody had to stop working on this show. I was doing Veep on HBO. And so so I had to make it public. Well, here's the positive thing that came out of that was that I was talking about insurance and how critical insurance obviously is for everyone and everyone deserves to have it.

And out of that sprung an opportunity for me to raise awareness and raise funds for women. Exactly. Right. Exactly. Yeah.

And your experience, especially when you are a person, a public person, your job is a purpose. So when something, what is inspiring to other people is not your success, your Emmy or your ESCO or whatever. What is inspiring is when you talk about your vulnerability. That is inspiring. Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah.

Are you going to retire at some point or you're just keeping up this pace of fabulousness? No, but you know, you change. I mean, now I'm, you know, I'm born on New Year's Eve. That's a great birthday. Well, it's very neat. Yeah. You know, when the year is over, it's over. So as a result of that, I always do New Year's resolution, blah, blah, blah. So now...

You know, now I'm entering the winter of my life, which could be a short winter, a long winter. I don't know that. But it's the winter of my life.

And therefore, at this time of my life, it is more important than ever to really focus on using my voice, my knowledge, my experience, my wisdom, my connection, my resources in order to help others and to connect.

kind of, you know, improve the world and society to the best we can. And right now it's so discouraging. The world seems so corrupt and so awful that I think we have to look for the light, even if it's just a tiny little bit of light and build around the light, cherish the light, share the light, because at the end, it is the light that pushes the darkness away.

This year we are, I don't know if it was this year. No, it wasn't. It was last year. We lost the spectacular Vogue journalist and editor Andre Leon Talley, I know who is a very good friend of yours. What did he mean to you? And also, can you talk about endings and how you deal with endings?

Okay, so Andre was, first of all, my friend. He was my friend for over 45 years. He happened to be also a formidable person. But if you're talking about ending, and it was very sad that he died. He died January 18 last year. But strangely enough...

His life has become even bigger. Really? Since he died. You know? How? Well, the recognition that he has received. Yes. And the recognition of his book and his work. And, you know, he was almost evicted from his house because

A few months before he died, but didn't. And now the street names his name, you know. So there is no such thing as ending. It's evolution. We are all part of nature and we evolve into something else. Yeah, but I mean, but what about your sadness when he passed? I mean, you must have been very, I mean, he sounds like such an extraordinary human being.

Yes, yes. But death, you know, life is a journey. Death is a destination. We all die. Yeah. So, I mean, there's not a day in my life that I don't think about death. And that is my way of dealing with it. Hmm.

So, you know, I mean, that happens to everyone. I know. We've all got it in common. We're all headed there. That's right. God, you're so gracious with your time. I want to ask you just a couple more quick questions, and you can just give me whatever thing pops into your head. Is there something you'd go back and tell yourself at 21? Go for it. Is there something you'd go back and say yes to? The only thing you regret in life is the things you don't do. Right. Right.

And I did pretty much all I could do. What's the best business advice you ever received? Or the worst? Or both? Oh, I don't know. My big fault in business is that I enable people and I

Because I feel like I can make things happen. I think that everyone can make things happen. But, you know, I don't think I'm a great businesswoman. I think I am a very good manifester. I can manifest things. I can make things happen. I am somewhat a little bit of a visionary, but I'm definitely not an executive.

Nor do I want to be. But you're like an inspirer. That's the sense I have. Is that true? Yeah, yes. And manifestor. I like the, I believe in manifestation. You know, you have a vision and you make it happen. Can you give me an example of when that happened in your life?

Oh, my God. Everything about my life. Everything. Like, for example, now I have this vision that my last act, Venice, the city of Venice, is going to play a very large role in my life. Why? Because I fell in love.

with Venice, not only for its beauty, but for its history. 1,600 years. And for me, Venice is a woman and she's had the most extraordinary life. She's invented everything. She invented a banking system. She invented a banknote. She invented diplomacy, the passport, the custom. Everything that we use in the modern world was invented in Venice.

And I had this vision that I think Venice should be a place where we kind of elevate the debate and where people meet. And I see Venice as a think tank. And so that's my vision, how I would like to spend a lot of my winter. I hope you do it. I know you'll do it.

And I'll invite you. Would you? Yeah, because you're an idea person. You also are definitely a manifester. You are a very generous manifester. You have...

You have ideas and you make them happen. So, yeah. Thank you for saying that. And I would be very curious to hear you or to interview you for that matter. We could turn around the next time. That would be superb.

I got to say, it's been kind of dreamy talking to you. It's been very dreamy talking to you. Well, thank you very much for asking me. And continue to be the woman you are. You are definitely inspiring. Back at you, DVF. Bye, darling. The chicest lady ever. Bye. Lots of love to you. Thank you. Bye. Bye-bye. Bye.

Okay, another podcast done and dusted. Wow. There is so much to tell my mom. Okay, I'm going to call her right now. Mama. Oh, hi, honey. Hi. So I just talked to Diane von Furstenberg. Oh, wow. I hope the wrap dress is still there. Yeah.

Yeah. Speaking of the wrap dress, Mom, did you have a wrap dress, Mommy? I did have a wrap dress. And I was trying to think, they came out in, when was it first that they came out? 74, 1974. Yeah. So I had a wrap dress and I was trying to remember what, it seemed to me that it had some kind of geometric print on it. Yeah. And then one that was sort of gray. Yeah.

and was sort of maybe one color or two colors, something like that. I loved it, but it made, I don't know why it made me feel a little self-conscious. Why mommy? Well, I don't know. Maybe I was just so used to wearing pants. You know, it was just, it was just, it was such a wonderful dress. Maybe I didn't, I can't remember, but I just somehow felt a little self-conscious. Well, it was a very sexy dress. So maybe that's why you felt self-conscious. Yeah. Cause it's not like you're wearing pants all the time, but I told her this story and I got to say, uh,

She did not find it as funny as I do. I don't think I told you this, but recently I was on vacation and I saw a pair of culottes and I wasn't sure if I should get them or not, right? It was like, when am I going to wear culottes? I don't play golf. I just, but they were so comfortable. And so I put them on hold and I went to go have lunch and then one of my teeth fell out of my mouth.

During lunch, and I thought, oh, this is maybe not a good sign. A woman whose teeth are falling out from health should not perhaps be buying cool lots. Excuse me, but I'm very worried about that. Why did a tooth fall out? I don't know, Mom. I cracked a molar. Who knows? But the next thing I know, I was practically coughing on it. Oh, God.

What? I mean, did your whole teeth fall out or just the top of them? Yes. No, the whole thing came out. It was all... Anyway. So what was your dentist? I had to have surgery on my mouth or something, you know? I mean, it all worked out fine. And see, look...

I'm opening your mouth. You can see all my teeth. I've got all my, all my choppers, but, um, but not some terrible gum disease or something like that. I don't have any gum disease. I've got my teeth and I'll tell you what I don't have is a pair of culottes that I don't have. Well, hold on to your teeth and I'll go get the culottes. Oh shit. Actually, I love culottes. They're very comfy. That's the thing. I,

them too. They are really comfortable. I don't know why. It's the shorts underneath the skirt. It's like a magic combo, you know? Shorts underneath the skirt? Yes, that's what culottes are. Oh, I thought culottes were those three-quarter pants that were wide. Well, I don't know what the fuck they are. Oh, I'm talking about, maybe I'm talking about a skort. I guess that's, I'm being told. Well, this whole time I was talking about a skirt that has shorts attached.

Oh, no, honey, you don't need that. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. Well, there's no fun. All right. Well, mommy, I'll, I'll talk to you soon. Okay. Good. Good. Be well and love to everybody and to you especially. Okay. Love you, mommy. There's more wiser than me with Lemonada premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content. Subscribe now in Apple podcasts.

Wiser Than Me is a production of Lemonada Media, created and hosted by me, Julia Louis-Dreyfus. The show is produced by Chrissy Pease, Alex McOwen, and Oja Lopez. Brad Hall is a consulting producer. Our senior editor is Tracy Clayton.

Rachel Neal is our Senior Director of New Content and our VP of Weekly Production is Steve Nelson. Executive Producers are Stephanie Whittles-Wax, Jessica Cordova-Kramer, Paula Kaplan, and me. The show is mixed by Kat Yor and Johnny Vince Evans and music by Henry Hall, who you can also find on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music.

Special thanks to Charlotte Christman Cohen and, of course, my mother, Judith Bowles. Follow Wiser Than Me wherever you get your podcasts. And hey, if there's an old lady in your life, listen up.

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