6/17/25: Trump Tells Tehran To Evacuate, Israel Bombs Iranian Media Live On Air, Israel Blocks Escape Of US Citizens, Trump Bashes Tucker
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Data based on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at provider's discretion. Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to breakingpoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to

to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at BreakingPoints.com. Good morning, everybody. Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today, a very consequential show, possibly our last show before the outbreak of full-blown U.S. involvement. So what do we have? But really, who the hell knows? At this point, we were both up late monitoring what the hell was going down. So many contradictory things.

signals. It seemed very ominous what was developing. I would say it still seems very ominous. So we'll just take you through everything we know at this point. We'll also track some of the additional news from yesterday. The Israelis targeted Iranian state broadcasters,

shocking and extraordinary scenes playing out live on TV. We'll bring you that. Also, Israel's implemented a policy to block their own citizens. And apparently there was a heated conversation between our own ambassador trying to block U.S. citizens from fleeing that country that is, of course, now under attack. We've got a

bunch of Tucker and Steve Bannon clips to show you their take on what's going on here as Trump spent some portion of yesterday also sniping at Tucker, jabbing him with the most Trumpian of insults. You don't even have a TV show anymore. It was like, you know, really hit him where it hurts in terms of the Trumpian ideology. Burns is the man who went on podcasts. Okay. Yes. Indeed. So,

Anyway, interesting to see what the conversation is unfolding there. Glenn Greenwald is going to join us. He's going to talk about the role of media disinformation, both right now so that you can help parse through all of this flood of information that is coming at you and also drawing out some of the parallels with how the media was weaponized in the buildup to the Iraq war. So that's going to be a really important conversation. There are other things happening in the world, though. We have some

really wild updates out of Minnesota after those attempted assassination of two lawmakers, one of them actually killed and murdered by this maniac who apparently went to the doors of two other lawmakers as well. Anyway, I'll save all the details for that story, but really crazy details that we're learning now.

We also, California Attorney General reached out to us and said, hey, I want to come on the show and talk about this lawsuit we filed against the Trump administration with regard to federalizing the National Guard. Extremely timely conversation because there are hearings with regard to that lawsuit in court today. So looking forward to speaking with him as well.

Probably going to get to the AMA Live. There's a little bit of scheduling question mark. So if not today, we may kick it to the CounterPoints crew tomorrow. Anyway, so we will see. But Sagar, we wanted to really make sure to thank everybody who's been supporting the show because it really has been quite extraordinary over the past several weeks. That's right. Yesterday was one of our biggest days ever in terms of the history of breaking points, which is very gratifying in terms of both the amount of work we put in, but

Really, the entire team. So thank you to everybody who's been supporting us. You can do so at BreakingPoints.com. We're really, I mean, this is a special moment for the history of the show, not even really in terms of our numbers, but I think in terms of being able to have a place where you can both get the news and viewpoints, which are just not available in the mainstream as we hurdle towards another catastrophic war. So with that, Crystal, why don't we go ahead and get into it?

Yeah, so as I was saying, all kinds of things unfolding yesterday. And sorry, you can jump in if I forget any of the key details here. But we started to get reports specifically out of Israeli media that Trump was hours away from signing an executive order that would get us directly involved. Now, of course, we are

already involved in Israel's war with Iran. It's our weapons. We are providing defensive support to Israel. There are indications as well that we may have been involved with the targeting. Trump was involved in the Sutter fuge leading up to this. So we are already involved. But the next step forward, we're backward, but

dramatically backward in my opinion, would be for us to get directly involved in the actual bombing of Iran. So these reports start to emerge in Israeli media specifically. Then we start to see all this information about all of these military assets being moved rapidly into the region.

Then we get word that, number one, Trump is not going. He's he's in Canada at the G7 meetings. Number one, he's not going to sign on to the joint statement that they're putting out calling for de-escalation. He later backtracked on that, by the way. They changed the language he did sign on. But this was the indication we were getting. He wasn't going to sign on to that. And he was going to leave those meetings early.

come back to D.C. and he wanted all of the relevant players to join him in the Situation Room at 2, 3 a.m., whatever it was that he was getting back. So everyone's looking at this and going, holy shit, this looks really bad. All the indications are there that we are joining this thing directly and it's happening imminently.

In addition, Trump puts out this truth. Let's put this up on the screen. This is A2. He says, Iran should have signed the deal I told them to sign. What a shame and waste of human life. Simply stated, Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. I said it over and over again. Everyone should immediately evacuate Tehran.

Tehran, of course, being the largest city in Iran, home to some 10 million people directly in the city, 16 million if you talk about the surrounding areas. Just, you know, absolute insanity here and seems like a direct threat coming, as I said at the time when we had these reports, and he's leaving the G7 early and he's going to the Situation Room, Sagar. And so we were all, you know, just...

calling everyone we could get any information from, glued to our screens, doom scrolling, trying to figure out what the hell was going to happen. Yeah, I spent a lot of last night on the phone. And basically, here's what I could gather, is that we are in the most critical period of the next 48 hours. The Situation Room meeting in the White House is narrowed down to basically two separate options. A lot of what I've heard has now been backed up

by the New York Times. The Situation Room meeting, there are two separate options now effectively before the president. One is to drop these bunker-busting bombs, these 30,000-pound munitions from American B-2s. One of the reasons why this necessitates only and pure U.S. offensive involvement is that these munitions are so large is that they can only be carried by the B-2 platform.

So it must be dropped by the United States of America. Part of the reason why some U.S. Central Command requested so many of those assets, much of these is not only the carrier strike group, which is now left in the Indo-Pacific and heading on its way to the Middle East, but a lot of it is actually carrier refueling tanks that are being spread all across from the United States and heading over to the Middle East. So what would it require is just to explain the military operation.

is it's not a single bunker busting bomb in the Fordow facility because it's so deep underground. This munition was developed in 2004 by George W. Bush specifically to go after both Iran and North Korean facilities, which are underground. It requires dropping a 30,000-pound bomb and then multiple drops over and over and over again, effectively making a hole and dropping a bomb on

another one in the hole over and over. This would be one of the most, honestly, one of the most shocking bombing missions which will be captured on camera since Hiroshima. People are really not even really prepared for what it will look like. We have tested the munition. I think it was under Trump's first term. That's the one option on the table. The other option on the table is...

J.D. Vance and Steve Witkoff basically fly to the Middle East and meet directly face-to-face with Iranian officials. This was an option that was relatively on the table as of last night. However, the president is really pouring cold water all over this. Can we put A to B, please, up on the screen? President Trump says he has not reached out to Iran for peace talks in any way, shape, or form. Trump calls dozens of reports suggesting otherwise, quote, highly fabricated documents.

Fake news. Let's also go to the next one, please, because this is very, very important. These are comments aboard Air Force One roughly around 2.30 a.m. Eastern time. Quote, Trump wants a real end to the nuclear problem with Iran this morning. It will find him in the White House Situation Room. Quote, I didn't say I was looking for a ceasefire. This is in reaction to some comments by Emmanuel Macron.

He said, quote, The Israelis, quote, He predicted, you are going to find out over the next two days. You're going to find out nobody slowed up so far. Asked his thinking for calling for Tehran to evacuate, he says, unquote,

I just want people to be safe. He says he needs to be present at the White House so that he can be well-versed and not rely on phones to know what's happening. And he said he wanted undecided about sending Wyckoff or Vance to meet with Iran. Quote, I may, but it depends what happens when I get back. So we had a diplomatic option, which is on the table. However, almost all U.S. public communications at this point from Donald Trump saying, I'm not interested in a ceasefire. I haven't reached out to Iran. I'm

not involved in direct talks with them do not indicate that those are going to be successful. All of this could be a ruse. Keep that in mind. That's basically what, uh,

the Trump administration's MO on all this is. However, I mean, just from reading the tea leaves as to where they are, we could all be very pleasantly and shockingly surprised, but I am extremely not optimistic. The go or no-go order will come in the next 48 hours. The assets are now mostly in place. We've got the carrier strike group on its way. We already have huge amounts of US military assets. But the real sign of what is to come if it were to happen,

are the movement of those refueling tankers. That is exactly what you would see in a offensive scenario. So things, I mean, this is as bad as it gets. This is March, 2003. I mean, this is it. The go or the no-go order is coming soon. And I think what's so shocking is, been the span of less than a week, let's really take a step back.

this director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard. Maybe she was lying. I don't think she was in March. She said and signed that Iran is not anywhere close to a nuclear weapon. In fact, the latest intelligence estimates that it would take them nearly three years to build some sort of nuclear weapon. All of this is a crisis manufactured by Israel. And now Donald Trump effectively enforced this issue. What's also crazy, you know, I was almost thinking about this and it sounds insane to say, uh,

The Iraq War was more legitimate than this one in that George W. Bush had a years-long propaganda campaign against the American people. They faked the national intelligence estimate around WMD in Iraq. They made their case to the United Nations by Colin Powell. It was all lies. Don't get me wrong. And they sought a bipartisan congressional authorization for the war in Iraq. You can say, and part of the reason Bush survived in 2004 is Kerry voted for the war too. And so did Hillary. The

All the Democrats supported it. I mean, the vast majority of the Democrats supported it. The vast majority of the entire country supported it. This is a unilateral action by Trump and Israel basically saying our own Western intelligence is bullshit. And so on top of that, the crisis right now, I mean, look, there's a lot of people are hyperventilating, et cetera. The consequences on this...

are immense. And I mean, we're going to spend probably the entire show talking about this, but just to give people the immediate picture that we will have probably a go or no go order in the next 48 hours. I would love to see Steve Witkoff and JD Vance get on a plane to the Middle East and meet with the Iranians face to face. That would be a benefit, of course.

But there's big questions about what can actually happen on the Iranian side as well. Their entire top military echelon is dead. They may be in a position like the Germans or the Japanese being asked for unconditional surrender, seeing regime change and saying, screw it. We're going to fight it out to the end, to the death. This is not an uncommon situation for people who are forced.

into that. I hope they don't choose that course, but it's very possible. As Trump was bragging about, some of the negotiators, some of the top negotiators he's working with were also assassinated. Yeah.

you know, which is very intentional on the part of Israel and, you know, a playbook that they've used time and time again. You know, to Sagar's point about how just at the end of March, so just a few months ago, Tulsi Gabbard was testifying that no, Iran is nowhere close to a nuclear war. They're not trying to pursue one. It would take three years if they did begin to try to pursue one. Trump was asked about that on Air Force One last night. And he said, I don't care what she said. I think they were very close to having them.

don't care about the assessment of his own intelligence agencies. He'll just take Bibi's word for it, apparently. And so here's the logic that the Israelis will be pushing and the many hawks within this administration will be pushing as well. Okay, now that we, they have not come anywhere close yet to destroying Iran's nuclear capabilities, nor can they without our assistance. But they have

increased the likelihood and the logic of Iran actually now rushing to develop a nuclear weapon. Because even people who were previously moderate are going to look at the state affairs and say, we were fools to trust the U.S. They were lying to us. They were using these diplomatic negotiations as a ruse to create, you know, a distraction while Israel comes in and attacks and assassinates some of our top political military leadership. So we have no other choice

At this point, in order to have some sort of deterrent effect, in order for this government to have a shot at surviving, now we do need to rush forward and develop nuclear weapons, something that, again, our own intelligence community said they were not doing previously. So Israel will say, and they're not wrong about this, now Iran will rush to develop a bomb unless it's

You come in, United States of America, and basically rescue our asses and not only destroy their nuclear capabilities, because I think it's also really important to keep in mind that in a lot of, I mean, that is just basically a pretext.

to enable this long-desired war against Iran that Israel has been pushing for for years and years, Bibi Netanyahu specifically, many of the bipartisan foreign policy blob here in the United States as well. So the nuclear capabilities are in a lot of ways a pretext for

But in any case, that's what they will be selling to Trump. And, you know, there are a lot of indications here that he may well be receptive to that logic. Certainly the idea that—so what was floated in the press that he's objecting to was this idea that they're going to put forward—the Trump administration is going to put forward sort of one final deal offer on Trump.

on the table. And he's, who knows, because he's now admitted to lying to us and lying to the Iranians and lying to the whole world about his intent to move forward with the diplomatic negotiations. So who knows what he's really thinking. You certainly can't take his word for literally anything. You also can't take these news reports at face value either because they're perfectly willing to leak lies

in order to shape the information space as well. So that's why it's so difficult to discern what is going on here, but he's pushing back on the idea that he has any interest in offering any sort of a deal. And even if there was some, hey, we're gonna put one final deal on the table, the content of that deal matters a lot because if it contains, if it's effectively the quote unquote Libya option, then that is a poison pill

directly pushed again by the Israelis and other neocons in this administration to try to guarantee that it is something that the Iranians could never, ever accept.

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Let me go ahead and put A to D up on the screen. This speaks again to what Trump has been saying about the possibility of a ceasefire or some sort of diplomatic

solution. He says, publicity-seeking President Emmanuel Macron of France mistakenly said that I left the G7 summit in Canada to go back to D.C. to work on a ceasefire between Israel and Iran. Wrong. He has no idea why I'm now on my way to Washington, but it certainly has nothing to do with the ceasefire. Much bigger than that.

Whether purposely or not, Emmanuel always gets it wrong. Stay tuned. Now, Sagar, my brain is a little addled at this point, but correct me if I'm wrong. Earlier yesterday, Trump said he wanted to see Iran and Israel get to a ceasefire. So, you know, this is just all over the place in terms of what he's saying. And I think intentionally, so real quick here, we can put a four up on the screen. After Trump said everyone needs to evacuate to Iran, you can see...

So miles and miles of cars backed up. By the way, there's huge fuel shortages. Apparently, there's no gas at the gas stations in this area at this point. And so people are trying to flee. But this is a city, again, of 10 million people. I mean, it's a larger metro area than New York City, to give you a sense of the size and scope. Just imagine for a moment.

that Iran told us, New York residents, you have to evacuate and the, you know, waste of human lives. I mean, it's just this direct threat. And it's much more horrifying coming from us because Iran doesn't really have the capability to back that up, but we do. So...

Michael Tracy called it, I think, the most irresponsible statement that has ever been made in the history of the presidency. And it's hard to think of what could compete with it. I mean, I don't know if I'd have to think about that one, but it'll rank up there just because of the glibness of the fact that it is not one where we're in a declared war. This is not Tokyo in 1945. Like we're not engaged in an existential battle to the death. This is a war of choice and a war of preemption, more decadence.

And look, it's not only insane to just say everyone should evacuate Tehran, but it's also buying into this Israeli framework about the existentialism of Iran. At the end of the day, look, existential is a word that has meaning. I'm speaking directly to Bill Ackman and to many of the other experts.

neocons here. Existential means life or death, okay? Iran, even with their shoddy ballistic missiles and cruise missiles and all of that, it's a regional threat. So is it existential to Israel? I mean, we could debate that. I could make a case for it. Is it existential to Saudi Arabia? Yeah, you could debate that and you could make a case for it. Is it existential to New York City? No, there's actually one nuclear power or

quote, rogue nuclear power capable of reaching the mainland United States. That's called North Korea. That's actually an existential threat. And that's why the North Korean regime lives to fight another day, because they've developed that capability. Even if Iran had a nuclear weapon, it would not be an existential threat.

to the United States in any way, shape or form. That implies the ability literally to hit the US homeland with a nuclear weapon. And yet the Bibi Netanyahu and Trump now framework is that this is literally an existential threat enough so that it requires the full force of- - You know what's great about your investment account with the big guys? It's actually a time machine. Log in and Zoom. Welcome back to 1999.

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I'm Tom Yamas. You have to go out there to bring people at home closer to the story. Wildfires continue to be a threat. With that massive hurricane comes the massive response. The best reporters in our business know how to listen. And when you listen, you get the truth. For NBC News, I'm Tom Yamas. That's what we do every night. NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas. Evenings on NBC.

The United States military and here's Bibi. I mean, this is straight out of '02, straight out of '03. America first should not mean America dead. First is Tel Aviv, now it's New York. According to him, let's take a listen. So are you going to target the Supreme Leader? Look, we're doing what we need to do. I'm not going to get into the details, but we've targeted their top nuclear scientists. It's basically Hitler's nuclear team, you know, we got them. We still have work to do on other sites.

We have targeted their ballistic missile manufacturing facilities. Understand this, you see these bombs, you saw a single bomb, it's a one-ton bomb, John, dropping on Tel Aviv and other places, killing men, women and children. They're deliberately targeting our population.

We're not doing that. We're targeting their military sites, their nuclear sites, their ballistic missile sites, so they don't have 20,000 of these that no country could survive with. What I'm saying is that we're not merely protecting ourselves. We're protecting everybody. We're protecting our Arab neighbors.

with whom we want to expand the peace, as we did under President Trump's leadership in the Abraham Accords. That will be possible if Iran is defanged. We're also protecting the world. They have ballistic missiles that can now reach deep into Europe and soon could reach the United States. And imagine what this regime that calls death to America every time

that bombed your American embassies, that murdered 241 Marines in Beirut, that killed and injured thousands of American servicemen in Iraq and Afghanistan, that tried to blow up a restaurant in Washington, that burns the American flag. You want these people to have nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them to your cities? Today it's Tel Aviv, tomorrow it's New York.

Look, I understand America first. I don't understand America dead. That's what these people want. - America dead. Nobody in America is gonna die because of Iran. It's just preposterous. But that's, look, this is straight out of 2002. We don't want the smoking gun to be mushroom cloud. You might as well put Condoleezza Rice's face

right all over this. And now he's also giving away the game because it's not just about the nuclear weapons program. Look, this is obvious from day one. This is a regime decapitation operation with a nuclear sideshow. The nuclear aspect is just a pretext basically to incite regime change. But

they're really giving it away here. I mean, basically talking about making the Middle East great again. Bibi gave an interview yesterday to Iranian opposition. Here he says, if the U.S. helps Israel assassinate the Ayatollah, it will, quote, help end the conflict. Let's take a listen.

Officials tell us that the president flatly rejected a plan, an opportunity that you, that the Israelis had to take out the supreme leader. Do you understand his concern? My understanding is his concern is that this would escalate the conflict beyond where it is already.

It's not going to escalate the conflict, it's going to end the conflict. Imagine what will happen if they had nuclear weapons and the ICBMs, the Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles, to deliver it to every place on Earth.

We're preventing the most horrific war imaginable, and we're bringing peace to the Middle East. And I believe that after our action, we're going to be able to bring the Middle East to new heights that nobody even imagined. You know, make the Middle East great again. Make it truly great. Make the Middle East great again. I mean, look, it's insane. It's preposterous. It's the same thing. I mean, it's literally 1953 all over again. We've got the Shah's son here. He knows everything about Iran. We'll put him in power. Oh, my God.

He got Israeli government ministers, you know, putting out photos with the Shahzad. I wish I was making this shit up. It's insane. I mean, 2000, you know, I realized this is probably a massive segment of our audience that doesn't really remember a lot of the details of the war in Iraq, but

The war in Iraq had their own Shah. His name was Ahmed Chalabi, and he was a guy rolling around here in Washington, and he was friends, and he convinced Bush and a lot of other neocons here in D.C. that he was representative of the real Iraqi people. The reason you guys have never heard of him is because about six months into the war, they're like, yeah, this ain't gonna work. And you know who they ended up elect?

people who ended up igniting a massive civil war in their country, which killed, you know, thousands of American soldiers, millions of Iraqi citizens. And to this day, it remains basically an Iranian outpost, ironically, if you really think about it. So altogether, like everything that is old is new again. And, you know, the rhetoric is exactly the same. But what's so dismaying is that people are not looking and learning the lessons of

of all of those. And it's just so dismaying to me because the downside risk of all of this is so immense. Look, I'm not going to sit here and say World War III, but at this point, I genuinely think the best case scenario for this is Libya. How did that work out? I mean, look at Benghazi. Look

Look at those cities. I mean, they collapsed into disaster. Look at the Syrian civil war. How many millions of people were affected and hundreds of thousands are dead? Look at the fallout. Look at the American intervention. We ended up backing aside their civil. And then this is a country

90 million people, almost one third the size of the United States. They have sizable ethnic minority populations. They have chemical and biological weapons stocks likely stashed in different places, easily could come under control of this or that. And then next thing you know, what's gonna happen?

The same thing. We had U.S. troops in Libya doing special operations raids, fighting ISIS. We had to bomb Syria. I mean, everybody. And we still have troops in Syria to this day. Yeah. And that happened in 2014. It will be a disaster. And it will have ramifications for years to come. Decades. It will keep us embroiled in the Middle East. I mean, and

And the nightmare scenario, it's not World War III. I don't think, you know, Russia and China and all of that were going to happen. But the nightmare scenario to me is hundreds of thousands of American troops who have to secure U.S. interests in the Straits of Hormuz or to protect, you know, oh, protect this asset or protect that. It doesn't happen, you know, all at once. Remember Vietnam. Oh, just a few advisors. That's it. And then it scales up and it up and up. We went into Afghanistan with the promise that we would be –

putting out the Taliban, then we would be out. We went into Iraq. Donald Rumsfeld's plan to go into Iraq is we would knock the regime over. We would replace it. We'd be out within two years. They literally called it a cakewalk on national television. We were there for over a decade. And so we are watching this all play out in the same way. The people, the civilians are going to suffer. There are a lot of American service members who could suffer too.

And everything that Bibi says is like the polar opposite of the truth. The idea that this aggressive, illegal war of choice would protect Americans is insane. To Sagar's point, it would put Americans at risk. It would immediately put at risk the Americans, the thousands of Americans who are already serving in the region. So it would—and think of the catastrophic blowback and fallout from our misadventures in Iraq.

that spurred more terrorism that, you know, they talk about Iran as like the number one sponsor of terror in the world. Like the amount of terrorism that we fomented through our disastrous decision to go into Iraq is unbelievable. So...

You talk about, you know, Libya. Okay, let's imagine they get their wish and they turn Iran into a failed state in the way that Libya is. Libya is a population of 7 million people. Syria is a population of about 24 million people. Iran is 90 million people. You think having a failed state of 90 million people is going to make the Middle East great again?

It's like insanity, psychopathic insanity. The amount of human misery that we would watch unfold. I mean, it's just you can't you can't wrap your head around it.

And so everything that Bibi says is the polar opposite of reality and flies in the face of all of the lessons that we should have learned over these many years of misadventure in the Middle East, and not even just the recent history that we've been around and cognizant for. I mean, the reason we have this Iranian government to start with is because U.S. interventions in the Middle East

So, you know, the fact that we're back to the well and even contemplating this and look, maybe he's going to decide at the last minute, you know what, we're going to take the diplomatic option if that's even if the space for that is even still open, because there's no doubt the space has been narrowed by the fact that they.

admitted and bragged about lying to the Iranians about their interest in a diplomatic resolution. Not to mention the fact that the previous deal that the Iranians had agreed to under the Obama administration had immediately been pulled back and we got out of it under the first Trump administration. So it's not like we have a lot of credibility. But maybe they decide to pursue that last ditch diplomatic effort. Maybe there's enough space where

remaining for the Iranians to come to some sort of a deal with the U.S. But the fact that this is even being contemplated is so outrageous and unconscionable. Oh, yeah. I mean, we could get into that in the immediate term. I, you know, I'm like you. I just hope that there is at least some off ramp. But I got to tell you,

I don't see it. I don't see it. I really, really hope that I am wrong, but I have not spoken really with any person who is actually very optimistic about that possibility. You know, let's see.

The Israelis yesterday started putting out threats against Iranian journalists and specifically the Iranian state broadcasters. And then let's go to A11, guys. We can put these just horrifying and extraordinary images up on the screen. While this woman is broadcasting live, you can see her here talking. They attack the building that she's in. And

Shortly thereafter, actually, incredibly, she and her colleague there come back on air and are able to talk presumably about what unfolded. But I mean, this is the sort of thing, Sagar, that's just like normalized. I mean, the number of journalists that they murdered in Gaza with scarcely a word, by the way, outside of Trey Yankst, a

Fox News from Western media about the targeted assassinations of journalists inside of Gaza. And now you have this, you know, they announced that they were going to attack this broadcaster. They did it while they're live on air. And again, silence from any sort of, you know, the Western media supposedly care so much about

journalism. We have to put a 12 up on the screen so you can see what I'm talking about here in terms of the threat. Um,

They say, will the Iranian regime's television stations be attacked soon? Defense Minister Katz, the mouthpiece of Iranian propaganda and incitement is on its way to disappearing. So they don't even feel the need to, like, pretend that this was an accident or they were going after military targets. They're just happy to announce it directly, blatant war crime, and put the next piece up on the screen. Afterwards, they confirmed it.

They said the same defense minister says the Iranian regime's propaganda incitement broadcasting authority was attacked by the IDF. So just out and out. And

admitting it was them. After this all unfolded, the Iranians decided that they would go ahead and then threaten some of the Israeli propaganda channels. We could put this up on the screen. Channel 12 and channel 13, or it says evacuate the headquarters of channel 12 and 14. Sorry, Israeli channels 12 and 14. Immediately, this was Iran in Arabic.

account on platform X issuing this warning message. As far as I know, nothing happened at those stations, but, um, just unbelievable the impunity that the Israelis act with at this point. I mean, there's just no like previous norm or law of war that they respect whatsoever. They've detonated car bombs in Tehran, brag about that as well. The pager attack, you know, which, um,

which maimed and killed innocent people who happened to be nearby. You know, people were going about there. They were at the market or whatever. When these things blew up, there was all sorts of collateral damage. And they, you know, they bragged about that. They're super proud of it. They killed a bunch of the assassinations that they were able to accomplish here in this war that they started to begin with. Those things, they were assassinated like in their beds at their homes, which means that they're...

their children, their neighbors were also killed. The civilian death toll is at some 90% is the estimate right now. And so there's just no limit because they've been allowed to act with such impunity and with zero accountability from the world. Right. And, you know, okay, you could...

The justification is, oh, it's state broadcasting. It's part of the propaganda. And it's like, well, okay, anybody who has ever studied a regime change operation or coup in Africa, this is one of those classic things. What is the first thing that the rebels always want to do?

who sees state broadcasting and the ability of the regime to be able to get its message out there. So even, let's just say, purely on strategic grounds, what does this indicate? I'm not saying about no nuclear weapons program. This is about one. Yeah, you think that lady was like a nuclear scientist? I'm not saying about nuclear weapons.

This is about regime change. This is about degrading the ability to get the message out. This is about reducing their state capacity to try and foment chaos. There's also – there's so much Israeli cope online about how these Iranians are just screaming out for freedom and for lack of repression. They'll be greeted as liberators. Now, I'm not going to doubt that there are a lot of Iranians who are upset. Yeah.

with the regime. But, you know, even today I was looking, some of the most prominent Iranian activists against the regime are like you, Donald Trump and Bibi, not only, you know, killing civilians or whatever and causing chaos in Tehran, but, you know, this whole evacuate Tehran order is one of the most like dis, unhuman things that we've ever seen in terms of chaos, in terms, I mean, just think about if somebody told you you need to, that message was posted 2.30 a.m. Tehran time.

Similarly, we have what? The inevitable. We were told repeatedly, Israel will finish the job on its own. We're not asking anything from the United States. Then slowly it was, okay, well, we just need you to defend us, but we'll keep going offensively.

And now here we have Yoav Galant. He's the former minister of defense for Bibi Netanyahu, presided over much of the Gaza war, goes on CNN. Of course, these guys never know how to do an interview with their own television networks. And what does he say? He says, America has an obligation to actually enter the war offensively and to take out Iran. Let's take a listen. - I believe that the United States of America

and the President of the United States have an obligation to make sure that the region is going to a positive way and that the world is free from Iran that possesses nuclear weapons in the middle of the richest place in oil and gas in the world. This could be a disaster for the world.

And I believe that the determination of the American president that has been shown recently will pave the way to America to enter into this very important operation. The president of the United States has the option to change the Middle East and influence the world, and influence the world, not only the world, in order to

to do something that will create a better future for all of us. America has an obligation. So there you have it. I mean, these people are shameless. They will say that they're doing it all themselves. And now they've basically spent the last five days just begging for U.S. involvement. And in a sense, as you said, they actually created the crisis which would necessitate, quote unquote, U.S. intervention. Because if the Iranians are like, screw it, okay, let's sprint to the bomb.

Then what? There's only one force in the world that can take them out. They went into the operation knowing from day one they would never be able to destroy the Iranian nuclear facilities. They could degrade it. That's not the same thing. And at this point, also, if the U.S. position is basically zero nuclear weapons...

Again, it's very difficult to square. If you're the Iranians, and this is where you need strategic empathy. I'm not, you know, in any way sympathetic or whatever to the Iranian regime. I'm going to try and put myself in their shoes. If you have the entire high echelon of military command assassinated, if you negotiated and thought they were serious and then they bombed, they used that as cover to bomb you, why would you, like, what would you do? And in a sense, too, from this point forward, as we learned with Libya, if

If you give up your nukes, they may still take you out a decade from now. So why would you do it? You would not do it. I would say sprint to a nuke and let's fight to the death. I mean, look, it's grim. Don't get me wrong. But, you know, this is where also people talk about the ideology. Well, there's ideology baked into that as well, right? And be like, look, this is a final face-off between us and the evil West. And so be it. You know, millions will die. Look at the Hitlerian bunker.

Or the way that the Japanese high command is willing to sacrifice their own civilians. And by the way, you didn't see mass rise up against them because the uncomfortable truth is that unconditional surrender set the conditions in which the people accepted their own death trap. And they themselves said, OK, this is it. We will join the regime, even though we hate them on these various things, to fight them. I'm not saying that's necessarily going to happen, but it's very, very, very possible. That's the biggest problem with all. I mean, true to Parsi says that there has been a real rally around the flag effect.

in Iran. Imagine somebody bombs you. What are you going to do? Of course. If somebody bombed us, I'd be like, okay. Threatens all, you know, however many million people in New York City. Like, of course, you're going to. Think of the, for those of you who are old enough to remember, the patriotic fervor after 9-11, right? I mean, the country really did, you know, the number of people signed up for the military and bought into the propaganda about why we have to go into Iraq. I mean, it was off the charts.

And so, yes, of course, there's going to be a rally around the flag effect as you have the Israelis bombing them and the U.S. threatening them and involved in the bombing. And so you are actually forging a much more cohesive nation and much more support for a government that, by all accounts, was pretty unpopular at this point.

you know, in terms of the logic with regard to nukes, they have to be thinking like, shit, we should never have even negotiated with Obama. We should have just gone for it. We should have just gone ahead because they, we wouldn't feel so comfortable messing with them now. And the Israelis would not feel so comfortable messing with them now. Those, I, that is the logic that our foreign policy has created. And, and,

It was entirely predictable. And in fact, I know the Israelis understood this going in that counter to their narrative, that their attacks and their degrading of Iranian nuclear facilities, and also, you know, decapitated, like going after military and political leadership and their attacks now on oil and energy infrastructure and all the rest, um, far from, uh,

limiting their nuclear capacity or degrading the calculus or the desire to rush towards nuclear weapon, they knew going in that the logic would be, all right, well, now we have to go after a nuke. And that's exactly why they did it, because they knew that they had to block this diplomacy that was ongoing before it actually succeeded. And this is their big chance.

to create a dynamic where they have leverage with us to try to pressure us into this war. And it looks very grim in terms of Trump buying into that logic and getting played and going along with them. And that is not to, by the way, take away his agency because nothing drives me more crazy than all of this cope about like always being misled by the neocons. No, he's a big boy. It's very clearly him making these decisions. And he is the reason why

We are in the position that we are in right now. Yeah, and if you want the blackest of all pills, let's go ahead and put A10 up there on the screen. Quote, this is the latest poll just came out yesterday from Grey House. By the way, we don't know a ton about this, but this is the only polling that we really have, this organization. Do you support the U.S. support attacking Iran if necessary?

Now, I think if necessary is important, but this is amongst Trump 2024 voters. Yes, 72 percent. No, 19 percent. Yeah, no, it'll be overwhelming. From the Republican base, it will be overwhelming. And honestly— Overwhelming support it will be. I question whether there will be some Democrats, too, because this is one where I think that the Democratic base will be against it. Yeah. But there's no Democratic leadership against the war right now.

In a way, their silence is nothing. Their silence speaks volumes. They've been pathetic. I mean, listen, I thought the thing that happened with Alex Padilla was bad. Going to freaking war with Iran is way worse. And they were so much more exercised over him being wrestled to the ground after he tried to ask a question. Of course, you know I'm at a press conference. Again, that was bad. Potential

World War III is worse, okay? Vastly worse. And the silence is absolutely deafening. I do want one little glimmer of positivity here. You have some bipartisan effort to put forward a war powers resolution to say basically like, hey, you can't do this. You can't enter a war with Iran without getting the backing of Congress.

And so you had Tim Kaine in the Senate along with, here's the full list, this is as of

10.30 p.m. last night. You have Tim Kaine, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Jeff Merkley, Chris Van Hollen, Ed Markey, Tammy Baldwin, and Tina Smith. So all Democrats only in the Senate. In the House, you do have Thomas Massey, the lone Republican who has signed on for a similar War Powers resolution along with Ro Khanna, Rashida Tlaib, AOC. That's all we got so far. So pretty slim pickings.

You know, there are a handful of Democrats. Tim Kaine was pretty early to come out and say this is unacceptable. Bernie Sanders has been probably the most vocal AOC signing on. But you're absolutely right that it's so like it's so enraging that you have this moment when the president is contemplating dragging us in to this horrifying war at great cost and risk to Republicans.

Look, and I'm going to say something unpopular, but I think it's just basically true at this point. MAGA, they're going to support Trump no matter what.

If he supported a deal, they would say, look, he's the greatest genius of all time. If he goes to war, they'd be like, oh, they had it coming. And Trump, look, Trump is the preeminent. He is the force. It's the only thing that matters. There is no policy behind it. I made my peace with that long ago. And for many people talking about the MAGA base wants this or that is honestly bullshit, okay? Like, look, we've had 10 years now at this point. But, and this is where maybe this is very elitist of me.

This is why I almost think it doesn't matter. This isn't about popular will. This is at the end of the day, foreign policy is the most elite of elite concerns. It very rarely ranks in the highest of the priorities unless a war actually starts. Let's look at the past. The vast majority of the American people supported Iraq.

They said later that they didn't, but they did. That's why, though, this is an intra-elite war over foreign policy theory, basically to affect the White House. And unfortunately, that's actually where Israel has the highest strategic advantage because so much of Washington is basically influenced by Israel and or they have –

The ideology, it's not even just money. It's really, it's about like affinity, like the ability, you know, they have all these free junkets over there. People spend time over there. They get to know them. There's this great influence campaign at a soft and a hard level that's been going on for, I don't know, 80 years now, basically since its existence. So you have that.

And there's an ideological belief that Israel is an important strategic interest for us. So you have that, right? That pervades Washington. So all of this, what's happening right now, I actually don't think it has anything to do with MAGA. I really don't. This is not really a democratic question, small d. This is really a question at the foreign policy elite level, especially because Trump is such a cult of personality that his people will back him no matter what. That's part of this whole like, oh, the MAGA base and all of that will fracture. I

I think all of those arguments are specious. Really the way that we should argue about this, is this a good idea or a bad idea? That's it. That's purely all that matters, especially when we know that we have this group of voters which will go with him no matter what. This does though, and we'll talk about this in the Tucker segment, put a lot of the people who have an audience who are almost solely basically comprised of MAGA in a very, very tough position because a lot of them actually do have genuine beliefs about

and or principles or philosophies about the way things should be done. And then when they go against and are counter to Donald Trump, you're going to find yourself in a very, very difficult position. This is the difficulty and the conundrum of anybody who is complete, like really totally tied to Donald Trump as an identity. And it's part of why when you do have a differing opinion, you at the end of the day will always lose. You will lose to Trump and you will lose to the MAGA base, which is really, really unfortunate.

Now, there are alternative power centers here. And this is, again, the lesson from the war in Iraq. Barbara Jordan and the people who voted against the war in Iraq in 2003 were villains. They called them treason. They wanted to throw them in jail. They were vindicated in a span of just three years. So if you believe what you believe, stand up and say it now. You could be wrong. Listen, the Shah's son could be in power. The Israelis could be totally successful. I'll eat it. I'd be happy.

Honestly, I would be happy if this all ended up well because it would mean no Americans are dead and the Iranian people are happy. I just don't think it's going to happen. I think I have a lot of evidence to back that up. I don't think they have very much evidence on their side to be able to say that. And so when the time comes and the bill can come due –

Eventually, things will come around. And so America, look, I think they will support this war. Unfortunately, I'm just telling the truth. Most people don't spend their days reading books. They don't know anything about Libya or Syria. They're like, yeah, something happened there or whatever. But at the end, you'll come to find that it was a big mistake in the long run.

Last thing, and then we can move on to this bit about the Israelis blocking their own citizens from leaving the country and trying to block our citizens from leaving their country as well. This was actually one of the pieces that was very ominous yesterday. I put A3 up on the screen, and we'll talk more about Tucker and the Tucker block. But Trump yesterday, we had covered...

had said that he was sniping at Tucker and was like, listen, I say what America first is. And unfortunately, he's right about that. And so he went more aggressively at Tucker yesterday evening and said, somebody please explain to kooky Tucker Carlson that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. And like that, I mean, the number of MAGA vote, people like Laura Loomer that I've been seeing attacking Tucker, you know, because Trump says, okay, he's in the out group now, that's it. And Tucker

has barely even like hasn't really actually even criticized Trump. He's just been mostly doing the whole like, oh, there's these forces inside the administration that are trying to convince Trump, blah, blah, blah. But the fact that Trump felt the need to effectively like excise him from the coalition, I think was also very troubling. We'll see. I don't know. Uh,

But yeah, I mean, that is a great lesson in terms of how the relationship with Donald Trump works. And yeah, that's why I'm sitting there next to him at the RNC. They were the best buddies not very long ago. Yeah, it's how it works. Look, a relationship only runs one way. You know what's great about your investment account with the big guys? It's actually a time machine. Log in and zoom. Welcome back to 1999.

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Good evening.

I'm Tom Yamas. You have to go out there to bring people at home closer to the story. Wildfires continue to be a threat. With that massive hurricane comes the massive response. The best reporters in our business know how to listen. And when you listen, you get the truth. For NBC News, I'm Tom Yamas. That's what we do every night. NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas. Evenings on NBC.

At the same time within Israel, there is an extraordinary development. Let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. There's a new report here from a new policy, which is an American lobbying organization for U.S. policy towards the Middle East, actually advancing national interests. Here's what they say, quote, Sources tell us at a meeting yesterday between U.S. Ambassador Mike Huckabee and Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu,

devolved into a shouting match over Netanyahu's objections to U.S. plans to evacuate citizens from Israel and the wider region. U.S. officials believe that the Netanyahu objection was predicated on his desire to hold U.S. citizens at risk in order to increase the likelihood of U.S. entry into Israel's conflict with Iran. So let's sit on that for a little bit, shall we? First of all, there are 700,000 Americans...

This is the current belief of within Israel, 700,000. I believe they have the largest outside American citizen population than Mexico, which tells you quite a bit. However, there is a little bit of a difference is that many of these people are dual citizens according to the data that we have.

but it also is being used as a pretext for why the United States has such a, quote, obligation to defend Israel. Now, let's just say Mexico. All right, so if Mexico, who do they share a border with, Guatemala? So if Guatemala was bombing Mexico, would we intervene to protect Americans in Mexico? Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think that that logic works all that well. There's a secondary element to this, which is that it currently at least,

A lot of these U.S. citizens don't seem to be allowed to leave. You know, we haven't seen yet some of the reports there. And obviously the flight situation there is pretty crazy. But almost every one of the other great powers has told their citizens to evacuate immediately. Yesterday, the Chinese foreign ministry issued a statement and said all Chinese citizens should leave Israel immediately. The Russian foreign ministry came out and said all Russian citizens should leave immediately. There's actually a huge Russian population in Israel. A lot of people don't know that.

But the point is, is that those countries seem to be, have the ability to tell their citizens to leave. Right now, I believe we do have travel advisories and all of that, but the question is about their ability to do so. And this pairs, and this is already confirmed. This isn't even based on a report. Put this up there on the screen from Haaretz, which is an Israeli news organization. Israel tells airlines, do not let Israeli citizens leave, even once repatriation flights are

are able to continue. Quote, estimates suggest rescue flights for Israelis stranded abroad won't begin before Thursday, and even then, only two flights per hour will be allowed during daylight. And the plan does not match the scale of the crisis. So, I mean, effectively, what you're seeing is that they are locking their people basically in their borders in the same way that Ukraine tried to do so in order to force everybody to fight in the draft. And they're afraid, I guess, of the

You know, the number of Israelis that do have dual citizenship all around the world who could take advantage of that and say, I'm getting the hell out of here. I don't want to fight in this war. Or, you know, hide in a bomb shelter every other day. Raises some profound questions about human shields and locking people basically in a death trap and forcing them of their own defeat. I'm not going to deny there's probably a lot of Israelis. I would say the vast majority of Israelis probably support this war based on all the polling that we've seen. Agreed. Let's be honest. But...

At least some of them want to leave, and I think that the action by the Israeli government speaks volumes. Yeah. They don't want – so first of all, to go back to U.S. citizens being blocked from leaving. We don't know if they were able to actually convince Huckabee and the U.S. administration of that policy. But what they're saying here, they want to use American citizens as human shields. That is what that means.

And they want to use American citizens as pawns in their game to try to force an escalation and force us to come in on their side. I guarantee you they are praying for the Iranians to hit some U.S. military base

and to kill some American service members so that the war fever picks up here in the US and this administration feels even more pressure and is even more likely to directly join the fight on Israel's behalf. That's how sick they are. Like, that's what they're cheering for, which is why you shouldn't put like some, you know, false flag

fake attack past them either because they've done such things in the past. So, I mean, this is not to be conspiratorial. This is to be a student of history and understand their logic and what they are capable of. You can't put anything past these people at this point. So their stated policy goal, their desire that they're arguing with our completely psycho, by the way, U.S. ambassador to Israel, Mike Agabio, believes in all this end times nonsense. Their stated policy objective is to perpetrate

trap American citizens in Israel to use them as human shields to try to foment and escalate a further, even larger scale war. That's where we are. And with regard to their own citizens, I think Sagar is exactly right. Number one, they don't want images

of thousands or tens of thousands of Israelis fleeing the country. They don't want that. They also, I think, are concerned because this is a country that, you know, was really overstretched militarily. You know, you've got the, uh,

Gaza genocide occupation. You have a siege that was implemented in the West Bank and increasingly aggressive actions there. You've had bombing campaigns in numerous regional neighbor neighbors and you have, you know, a reserve corps that's been called up again and again and again.

So they're worried also on just like a tactical level of losing additional amount of their manpower of people, you know, who who flee overseas and don't want to be part of this, who may support the war broadly, but may not exactly want to be the ones who are fighting it. So that's you know, that's the calculation they're engaged in, which is pretty grotesque.

It's, I mean, look, it's, like I said, it speaks volumes. They don't want their own citizens to leave. But at the same time, again, let's not say that the vast majority of the people don't support this war. And at least the political establishment does. Let's put this up there on the screen. This is from the Times of Israel. But the opposition has actually rallied around the Iran campaign, quote, despite long opposing PM's leadership. Yair Lapid, the primary opposition leader, says Netanyahu must go, but not during the existential fight.

Right. Oh, okay. That's part of why this is happening right now. And Naftali Bennett, the former prime minister, says there is no left, no opposition, and no coalition when it comes to preventing Iranian nuclear missiles. This is all so fucking fake. Yeah. Like, just out of nowhere, they just make up, oh, Iran's about to have nukes. Nukes.

They haven't offered any evidence of this. Our own intelligence community says that is not the case. They aren't pursuing nukes, that it would take three years. We've been hearing for decades now that Iran is days away, weeks away, months away, whatever. I mean, even Bibi himself isn't saying they're like weeks away from an Iranian nuke. So this is all about a political

calculation by Bibi Netanyahu that number one, he does not want the diplomatic negotiations that the Trump administration was engaged in to succeed. Number two, he is still on very tenuous political footing himself. And so this is a way to, you know, in the same way there's a rally around the flag effect in Iran, there's a rally around the flag effect in Israel that you can see here as evidenced by the opposition basically saying like, this is our guy for as long as this war continues. Well, guess what that incentivizes?

War continuing forever. So that's why this is happening right now. It has nothing to do with any Iranian activities regarding developing a nuke. That is the pretext. And the goal here very clearly is to collapse

this government and foment either a failed state or some sort of direct regime change. That is the true aim of what they're doing. And so do not believe all this, like, don't get caught up in all this nonsense. Trump tweeting out, oh, Iran cannot have a new. OK, then keep going with your negotiations, which had a genuine shot at success until you lied about them to trick the Iranians and help to close the possibility of any sort of a diplomatic solution.

Yeah, I mean, and especially what we're looking at right now from Donald Trump. I mean, what we see is just, you know, like not only a backing of the campaign, but what you're also watching are just accepting a lot of these implicit assumptions, like that this is a war of necessity, that the Israeli intelligence is somehow better than our intelligence. I don't believe that. I mean, look, Tulsi Gabbard signed it and testified before Congress.

under oath. If she lied, go ahead and tell us, show us the proof. Right. This is what I mean about Iraq. They actually did try. I mean, they made up all of this bullshit about yellow cake and curveball and Niger. I mean, I can tell you the whole story. A long propaganda buildup. It took a while. Colin Powell. And, you know, there's no question that they're on their path to a WMD. I was actually going back and reading the exact TikTok of

of all of it. In a way, it's impressive the amount of BS that they were able to make sound legitimate. They don't even try this time. It's all out here in the open. They're just like, no, our intelligence assessment, I don't agree with her. That's what Trump said today. And in terms of the Israeli society and government,

It's pretty clear they're united around this. Put B4 up here on the screen. We have Naftali Bennett, the former prime minister. "What a peculiar country Israel. "When Iranian missiles rained down on us, "200,000 are scrambling to come home. "Not away from danger, but towards it. "I love my nation of lions." It'd be interesting to see what that number would be if they did actually allow outbound flights

Israeli citizens. We'll find out that way. They're not running away from danger. You're not letting them. It's like, well, you won't let them, will you? I don't know if this is confirmed or not, but apparently some Israelis are taking like yachts to Cyprus. Really? Yeah, to get around the air ban. One last thing and then we can move on to this Tucker and Steve Bannon conversation, which is interesting. We've got a number of pieces of it to share with you. But

Did you follow, Tulsi put out that like weird ass nuclear video last week. And it was very ominous. And she was talking about like the nuclear attacks, you know, are dropping the bombs in World War II and all the carnage from that and sounding this very ominous warning.

And at the time, first I was like, what is this? And then also it felt like it was more, and maybe it was in the context of like Ukraine, Russia and the possibility of a nuclear conflagration there. But I don't know. Now with the outbreak of us joining this war with Iran, I don't know if it was like more about that. I'm not sure, but it was interesting to me. Now looking back in retrospect, I'm like,

Was she trying to send a message as some sort of a plea for help? I don't know. Yeah, look, at this point, look, we're not there yet. But, you know, for Tulsi, this is the person who staked her. And look, she's compromised, I think, many things that she said in the past. But I don't think she has compromised herself on Iran entirely.

and really on Iraq war, right? Which is the central reason, according to her, just when we spoke to her, as to why she wanted to get into politics. It's like, if they do launch a war, you have to resign. - You have to resign. - If you have any integrity whatsoever. I mean, but I don't think it'll happen.

but I think she should. There are a few other people in the administration. RFK Jr. is one of them as well. This is a person who, look, he may be very, very pro-Israel, but he has spoken repeatedly about the war in Iraq with the disastrous neoconservative intervention. I mean, it's a separate question entirely if it involves like fully bombing. And it's something that

by his admission, he said it was some of the most disastrous choices in US history. It's like, okay, then same thing. You need to resign. There are a lot of people in the administration who have literally forged their way to Donald Trump and to working in their positions right now because of their opposition to forever wars and other things. And so look, if somebody's going to do such an about face, then you kind of do have at least some, there's an integrity question here.

when it comes to that. And if they don't, I mean, they're going to be scarred for all time. Oh, yeah. Look, we'll see in terms of how this works, but I think it's honest. Tulsi is the one that really comes top of mind. Obviously. Yeah. Because she's just so vocal about it. Her whole thing is against the warmongers and against the forever wars. That's her whole thing. Right. And so if you, and you have Trump throwing you directly under the bus now. Quite literally. I don't care what she said. Humiliated you in front of the eyes of the world. I mean, if you think about it,

You know, the ODNI, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, is supposed to be the boss of the entire U.S. intelligence community. So if she goes abroad and she's meeting with, let's say, our Five Eyes people and said, this is the U.S. intelligence assessment, they're going to be like, why should we believe you? You know, Donald Trump says he doesn't even trust you. He kicked your legs out from under you completely and neutered. I mean, it's honestly embarrassing. It's humiliating. I quote, I don't care what she said.

right? I mean, this is one where it really is just, it's astounding and it is sad.

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Let's get to the Tucker segment because it's important here as well. You know, this gives you some preview into the elements of the people in quote MAGA or MAGA leaders who are trying to push back and some of the futility which that has and perhaps, though, could preview, you know, some break in the coalition or at the very least at a leadership political level. So we'll see how this works. But Tucker Carlson actually flew to Washington yesterday, something that he

rarely does, specifically just to sit down with Steve Bannon live in the studio and basically to campaign against US intervention in this war. Let's take a listen to what he and Steve Bannon had to say. - The platform of Fox though, it's just not marked. Why is Fox like all weekend, it's just cheerleading, it's exact, you can play side by side Iraq in 2003. - Oh, I was there. - And here, and what's happening today? Why is this apparatus? - Well, Levin's the funniest because

He's terrible on TV. And again, I never had any problems with him at Fox. He kind of controls Hannity in this weird way. I never understood what that was about.

I never really cared to learn. Sean was great to me, always nice. And so was Levin. So I just like kind of stayed away. But they didn't want to put him on TV because he's like screechy and he's just not a coming president. Like, unless you're literally floating in and out of consciousness and the attendant has taken the remote to go have a cigarette, you're going to flip the channel when it gets on TV. It's like listening to your ex-wife scream about alimony payments. It's like not appealing.

So they wouldn't put him on TV. And then, you know, Sean pushed and they gave him some kind of weekend show that nobody watched. Now I don't have a TV, but someone was just who owns a TV was just telling me that he's like all over primetime. So what is that? That's not by popular acclaim. That's not like their viewer surveys. Like, you know, we need a lot more Mark Levin. Less Jesse Waters, more Mark Levin. Mark Levin! What they're doing is what they always do, which is just...

turning up the propaganda hose to full blast and just trying to, you know, knock elderly Fox viewers off their feet and make them submit. This is where the point. I mean, look, that's as good as it gets in terms of calling out Fox News, at least. And I will tell you, because Secretary of Defense Pete Hegsath was appearing live on Fox yesterday, I unfortunately was watching some just to make sure, you know, we weren't having an announcement of war. And by the way, Fox,

The Secretary of Defense was on for two minutes. Do you want to know the first question that they asked him about? Two minutes. Well, I know the answer because you tweeted, you texted us about it. It was about the military parade. Yeah. They were like, why don't you just tell us about how great that was? I was like, are you fucking kidding me? You're literally in the middle of a crisis and Jesse Waters is asking Hegstead about the military parade. Of course it was Jesse Waters. I couldn't believe it. I mean, it's like, don't even pretend. Do you have any news organization? Okay. But whatever. Whatever.

Let's put that to the side. Tucker is correct. I mean, just yesterday, apparently, Fox broadcast a report about secret Iranian nuclear sites that have recently been found. I mean, it's out of 03 all over again. But this is also why...

There is a generational divide on the issue. In fact, there was some polling that came out yesterday which showed that people who primarily got their news from cable are dramatically more pro-Israel. People who got their news, and this includes right-wingers. Actually, people who got their news from the internet and or podcasts or do a mix of both are dramatically less trustful of a lot of mainstream institutions. But look,

Here's the truth. These are the people who vote. These are the people who really have, you know, the ear of some of the people involved. And with Trump, it's obvious that he respects television more than anything. So before we play even more Tucker stuff, it's actually important to say that even Tucker's mild criticism there. Did you guys hear what he said? He said, I love Trump. I think he's a deeply humane person.

That is as couched as it gets. I mean, let's be honest here, right? Yeah. Well, even that, just the temerity to say something about Trump not needing to go to war with Iran. Here's what Trump had to say. In response, guys, let's go ahead and play C4. They've been talking about this deal for six years. Six years. And he's done what they haven't been able to do. So he's done really a very good job. In response to Trump's response, what is that? Did he say that you would be that you would be?

I don't know what Tucker Carlson is saying. Let him go get a television network and say it so that people listen. Thank you. Let him go get a television network. I mean, again, this is preposterous for a number of reasons. One, Trump actually eschewed television for the podcast. There was the whole narrative about the podcast election, and he got millions and millions of views online. The Tucker Carlson show is reprehensible.

Probably far bigger than it ever was on Fox News in terms of the number of views. I mean, it's always number what? Number two to five on the top podcast in the entire United States. Gets millions of views on YouTube. It's just empirically true that you've had far more – he's had far more reach. I don't know about influence, but reach in the independent sphere. Something his White House hasn't –

alternative media seat for so i don't know what that's all about if he only cares about television but the point is is that in his head fox is all that matters and what tucker is calling out there is sean hannity mark levin and the entire fox primetime is just geared up for war war war and the crazy thing is it's the same people general jack keen right the same guy

On TV in 03 – or sorry, in 07, it was posted for the surge. It's now here back on television pumping the war with Iran. He says it's a critical, a core national interest of the United States. These are dyed-in-the-wool neocons. There's no getting around it whatsoever. And yet it's being mainlined into the boomer mind at every level. And look, this is just about Fox because it's about the right wing. This is every network.

I mean, it's insanity out there. It really is. CNN has got IDF spokespeople, freaking Scott Jennings from a bunker in Jerusalem telling Trump to finish the job. News Nation is somehow even more unhinged with Cuomo and Leland Vitter on the Iran question. I actually need to watch, oh, by the way, watch Scott Horton taking Leland Vitter apart if you want to.

some enjoyable viewing, but I actually need to watch MSNBC. I'm curious what their line has been. I think the fact that I have not yet seen a single clip tells me what I need to know, which is that they're just like the Democratic Party. They've got nothing. And, you know, this is actually a big test for Chris Hayes. Some of us have been around long enough to know that Chris's origin story is about the war in Iraq, too. So, Chris, where are you, man? Like, you've got a primetime network. Make yourself the central, you know, rally the base. Do something about it. We need a

We need our Olbermann today. It didn't turn out so well for Keith, but at the time it was important. It was important at the time. Did you see this comment from Mitch McConnell? What was it? He was asked, Manu Raju asked him about Iran and Israel, and he said, quote, what's happening here is some of the isolationist movement led by Tucker Carlson and Steve Bannon are distressed. We may be helping the Israelis defeat the Iranians. I would say it's been kind of a bad week for the isolationists.

So, you know, Mitch McConnell here taking the victory lap. Yes. But, you know, ultimately, like you said, Tucker has broader reach, but perhaps less influence. And unfortunately, I think that is the case. Unfortunately, cable news still has some purchase on our society in terms of like elite conversations. And to your point, when you're talking about foreign policy, it's an elite conversation. The elite conversation really matters a lot.

So, you know, and the vast majority of...

core MAGA voters. You had independents who voted for Trump, who I think will be disgusted with this decision and will say, this isn't what I voted for and will be unhappy and move away from him. I think his approval rating may go down as a result if he gets us directly involved in Iran. But I think his approval ratings, the Republican party will continue to be sky high. They will continue to, you know, do whatever mental gymnastics they need to do to say, this is totally different than Iraq. And this is totally in line with, you know, with, um,

what I wanted and what I voted for. And listen, in fairness, Trump on the campaign trail was talking about how Israel should bomb Iran's nuclear facilities. So the White House posted this long thread of all the times that Trump said Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. And

Look, he did. He said now, you know, he also trotted out Tulsi Gabbard and R.F.K. Jr. to posture like they were going to be the pro-peace ticket and that they were going to be against the warmongers and they were opposed to Liz Cheney, etc. But he also said the thing that, you know, some of us picked up on and paired with his first term record was.

indicated that, no, he's not going to be some dove. He's not going to be committed to a completely different foreign policy orientation. He's not going to be committed to extricating us from this region. He was the most pro-Israel president we probably ever had in his first term. So, you know, that's

That's what it is. And the MAGA base found a way to reconcile that at the time, and they will continue to do so. Yeah. Look, as you said, and I think it's very obvious, MAGA and all of them will go along. And the line will probably be the Libya line. I still believe to this day, I don't think Trump is dumb enough initially to

commit to some full-blown regime change operation which requires boots on the ground. I think it's gonna be a Libya-style situation. And remember, Obama and Susan Rice were all saying what about Libya? It was a tremendous success. We committed just a few American jets, shot them down, and then the Libyan people rose up and they seized their destiny.

for themselves. And then our ambassador was literally dying in smoldering ruins, oh, I don't know, eight months later. And ISIS took over Benghazi, turned into a slave market and a footpath and a boat path to Europe for one of the world's worst demographic crises in modern history. Oh, just, you know, only took a couple of years for that to work out. So that will be the line, is that no Americans died while doing it.

And it's like, okay, no Americans died in the Syrian civil war. Do we think it was a disaster? I do. Yeah. You know, because guess what? French people died in the Bataclan when ISIS massacred all of them and it was planned in Syria. Actually, a lot of Americans were killed fighting ISIS in 2017 in Iraq.

which was bled over from Syria. Same in Libya. Sure, did a lot of Americans die as a result of Libya? No, not directly, except for the people in Benghazi. But let's also think about all of the weapons and the civil war and all of the fallout from that in the region, the chaos that it's wrought on Europe. Just because the bar cannot be one person die, an American dies or not, that's not the issue that is at hand here. The issue is

Destabilize the regime. Does it cost the United States more blood, more treasure, more attention being paid to this region? And that's really what he has committed himself to within this, and it's going to be a disaster. To this point, here you have Tucker and Steve Bannon going off on this. Let's take a listen. I actually really love Trump. He's a deeply humane, kind person.

And I am saying this because I'm really afraid that my country is going to be further weakened by this. I think we're going to see the end of American empire, obviously. Other nations would like to see that. And this is a perfect way to scuttle the USS America on the shoals of Iran. But it's also going to end, I believe, Trump's presidency and effectively end it and the

And so that's why I'm saying this. What do you mean by that? That's coming from you. You get – look, I knew Bush. I knew George W. Bush. We had family connections to Bush. I knew Bush. Personally, I still see Bush sometimes. And –

Of course, he hates me, and he does because I criticized him on Iraq, and that war is the sum total from historical perspective of his administration. But I knew him, and he had all kinds of plans for the things that he wanted to do. Domestically. Domestically, to improve the country. And you may agree or disagree, but in his mind, he wasn't just –

about the invasion of Iraq in March of 2000. Oh, no, no. He was going to redo Social Security. 100%. He was going to take care of the entitlements issue. And he really thought it was going to work. And you could laugh at that or whatever, but the point is the second you get enmeshed in a real war, not a fake let's go bomb the villagers and declare success, we don't even have a good track record. Like, why are the Houthis still there? There's a whole other question, which is how prepared is the U.S. military for a real conflict? And the answer is totally unprepared.

Scary unprepared. I don't think people understand that. End of the American empire. I mean, I talked about this with Dave yesterday, but I think it bears reiterating is, look, there's a reason. Like, this is it. When you get enmeshed in a war, it will kill your entire presidency. It becomes the singular issue. Everything else, it gets dragged down. I said yesterday, the evangelicals, a lot of them believe that Bush, Iraq is what killed their entire movement. I mean, like I said, I don't think it's 100% true, but-

There's probably some truth to it. If you believed in Social Security reform, I don't, but they believe it. That's what killed it. It was Iraq. It was Iraq and it was Hurricane Katrina. Those two things nuked the entire Bush project. They became inmesh in it. The entire White House became an Iraq project. They never did a single piece of major domestic legislation ever again. That will similarly happen here, except Trump is somehow beating Bush on the timeline. It's only been six months into his presidency.

This will define for the next three and a half years if things go poorly. I mean, they're really just banking on the ability to land the plane, but there's just no evidence of that. And what he points out is a bigger question as well. Even if Americans don't get deployed to hundreds of thousands or any of that, the spotlight and the attention that we'll have to have on the country of Iran as a result of this operation is years, decades to come. Think about

Iran is not only a country of 90 million. Let's say the regime collapses and it goes Libya, civil war, Iraq. You'll have Qatar, Saudi, Turkey, all these other people. They're all going to pick sides. Israel, everyone's going to pick there. They're all going to fight each other. There will be mass death. They have a direct footpath. They can walk to Europe literally by foot.

if they wanted to, so we're going to have a mass demographic crisis in Europe. And then on top of that, all of these different sub-regional issues surrounding it, like Syria and the Iraqi government, they themselves would be destabilized because Iran was so enmeshed in their politics. And so then what happens if we have a civil war there? And then they bleed into each other. And all of this is when, that's exactly when the John McCains and the Lindsey Grahams of the world say, we got to go in and we got to pick a side, just like we did with Syria, just like we did with Libya. And guess what? We're not very good at it.

And all the while, it requires more U.S. munitions, more carrier strike groups, more Israeli defense. And what's going on in East Asia? 50% of global GDP laughing at the United States of America. I mean, already, we've probably depleted an entire year's worth of THAAD interceptors in five days. Five days! I mean, it would require the World War II-level mobilization of the U.S. economy to come back

and to actually produce the level of munitions just to be able to support an offensive in an ongoing war against Iran. Forget about some other theater. It's not going to happen. This is not 2003 in the unipolar moment. And I didn't even talk about all of the underlying social decay and problems that we have here at home.

So I think he's exactly right. I mean, I don't know if it would be the end of the American empire, but it would be a step in that direction. Not on a good trajectory anyway. Yeah. And I mean, think of all the costs that just the Houthis in Yemen were able to exact against us. Exactly. Good point. Like with the, you know, when they're relatively like minor operation, which wasn't even really directed at us. Yeah.

And then think about, you know, the cost that a country like Iran could exact. You know, I personally would like this administration to fail, but not at the cost of going to war in Iran. That is, you know, not a cost that it should be or is acceptable in any way. And I think your point about the

escalation of our, the acceleration of our decline is incredibly apt. Let's go and play this last thought that we have from Tucker and Steve Bannon. This is C3 guys, where you can see how careful they are about avoiding any direct criticism of

Trump. And I think this is a preview of the justifications to come that you already see. I saw Charlie Kirk last night on Fox News. Oh, I trust Trump and we have to trust in Trump. And he was made for this moment and thank God we elected him to be here during this point in time.

The rationalization that we've seen in the past from many of these figures is anything Trump does that they don't like, it's never his fault. It's like the people around him or he got tricked, he got pulled into something, the deep state, blah, blah, blah. And so Tucker and Bannon

in an effort to maintain, apparently failed effort, to maintain some sort of credibility and influence within the Trump administration also concoct this elaborate imaginary scheme in which Trump is really dedicated to peace. And it's just all of these unseen forces around him that are effectuating the outcome that we all see. Let's take a listen to that. And the incentives to pull the US in are so profound. I guess if I could just say one political thing,

the watching Donald Trump, who of course you know very well, who I think at core is sincere about peace. Oh, big time. Yeah, big time. Big time. I mean, that's real. Watching him done so wrong, the lies, oh, he knew all along, you know, the peace process was fake. Steve Witkoff was playing along. That is a lie. That's a lie. I know. That's a lie. Those guys meant it. Bald-faced lie. It's a total lie.

And all these people that Mark Levin and all of the minions who are running cover for a foreign government, they're all telling that same lie.

And I just I feel for President Trump. And I think I don't know this. I'm just guessing. But at this point, I feel like he just has to kind of roll with it. You know, what do you say? You want to get an argument about that right in the middle of a war? I think he reiterated last night that we got to get back to the peace party. They got to lay down the guns. They're lying about him. He sincerely, even now, he sincerely believes whether he's right or not, I can't say. But that this could be a predicate to a peace deal, what we're seeing now.

He really thinks that and wants that. So he's holding on to the idea this was all, this is all an effort to get to a peace deal. I mean, if he thinks that— I think there's a duality of Trump. I think both of those things can be true. I think when Trump is on the phone with Tucker and them, he probably is saying things like that. He's probably got hours of conversation with a lot of people. Actually, I know this literally to be the case, talking about how he wants—

deal with Iran. He's also a deeply impressionable boomer who watches a lot of Fox News. And when he has dinner with Mark Levin, he's like, yeah, maybe it is a good idea to go ahead. And this is the problem with somebody who doesn't think that deeply about any of this. I mean, it also shows you really the downside.

of somebody who basically could promise all things to all people. But part of the clarifying part of the presidency is that you do actually make a decision. And when you make that decision, you actually come into power. You find out who somebody really thinks or who has really been swayed or not. Part of the reason they have to frame this stuff is...

This happened yesterday with Dave. I love Dave, and Dave doesn't care about this. But Dave actually was kind of a real figure in MAGA right, I would say. In terms of his audience, people looked to him for guidance and just his position. He had real anti-left credibility. He helped to solidify libertarians voting for Trump. Yeah, and that was really important. And so when he was on our show and he was like, impeach Trump and I'm done with Trump, I was like, oh, man.

Because what I know is that for them, Trump is the ultimate question. Trump can never fail. He can only be failed. Now, that's a very convenient narrative for Donald J. Trump. It's obviously bullshit. And those of us who talk like Dave or who say these things like that's BS or you actually have agency, you get shut out real quickly. Like, I just am being honest.

in terms of the way that this all works for political influence. And that's part of why Bannon and Tucker, like they both are doing shows and they're trying to give their opinion, but they're political actors as well, trying to push an actual agenda. And what you're all watching is how that works in practice and also how difficult and

honestly humiliating can be. I mean, especially Bannon's case, because Bannon is constantly, he'll hit them on Elon, he'll hit him on this, and then Trump will just be like, I don't agree with that at all, and he'll elevate them. And Bannon's like, I'm speaking for the MAGA base. And it's like, well, are you really? That's why that whole mantle of I'm speaking for the MAGA base

or any of that, I think everyone needs to drop it and we should just argue on the merits. Let's just argue on the actual thing and say, look, this isn't this. We can talk about politics. I mean, you want me to give the real anti-political case for Trump?

I said it earlier in the show. Bush, the reason he survived is because he got the whole country to agree with him and co-opted the Democratic Party. If you do this, if Donald Trump does this, he will own the decision entirely. No Democrat's going to vote for this war. They're not stupid enough to – a lot of Republicans won't even necessarily vote because it won't come up for that.

And he and his national security team will own it for all time. There's none of that protection for the political establishment or the media, even in the media, to be honest, because they're not as complicit in this one. Like you can't spread the blame around. You are going to own it 100 percent. That's about as a political reason as ever not to do the course that you're currently taking. Well, and Tucker is a much more, I mean, no disrespect.

To Dave, who I think you're right, is an influential figure on the right, was important in pulling together, you know, the Trump, winning Trump coalition, bringing libertarians into the tent, et cetera. But Tucker is a much larger and more influential figure. Yeah. And even with him being so careful, Trump still... Yeah, hit him. Hit him multiple times and just completely, you know, brushes him aside. Kooky Tucker Carlson thinks that it's fine for Iran to have nuclear weapons, you know. And so...

It our politics. This is the worst thing about the Trump era. It's all about Trump. He is the central dividing line. If you are, you know how you feel about him and his every single decision and your willingness to go along with it, no matter what it is that defines Trump.

where you are on the political spectrum. I mean, it's easy to forget now, Liz Cheney was a big Trump supporter. Liz Cheney campaigned with Trump, okay, in 2020. She was on the Trump train. And then the minute, it has nothing to do with her being a neocon or whatever. I know that's what they claim. It had nothing to do with that. She criticized Trump after January 6th. That was it. That was what killed her. And same thing with all this, you know, antipathy towards Mitch McConnell, who now is apparently like, you know, riding high because he's getting his way in terms of foreign policy.

has nothing to do with him being corrupt or a neocon or any of the rest. It had everything to do with, again, he was critical of Donald Trump and you can't do that. And they will, you know, trash you and destroy you. And the base will go along with whatever you say about who is on the good side and who is on the bad side. So, you know, that's that's the landscape as it exists now.

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