Looking Back and Looking Ahead
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Merry Christmas, everybody. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays, whatever it is that you're celebrating. Wow, here we are, December the 25th. We've been talking about it for a month. Merry Christmas, Caitlin Green and Adam Karsh. Merry Christmas. Merry Krimbus, everyone. Okay.

Well, it is, you guys could have felt our conversation just like a hurricane leading into Adam hitting the record button. We've just been talking about decisions in life that you sometimes question, hard decisions that you have to make. And I'm going to throw, I'm not negating you at all, Adam, but young women especially, you know, we're always kind of questioning things.

um, we're questioning ourselves in your twenties and thirties. I think back to things that were on my table and I was just like, I don't know what to do. I don't feel confident enough to do it. And the biggest advice I always give to people that are spying artists, musicians, whatever job they're in, I'm just like, trust your gut and don't

Don't worry your power away. That's what I want to say. Oh, oh my gosh. Put that on some sort of a fridge magnet or a shirt. Don't worry your power away is going to be the vibe I take with me to 2022. Good. It's really true. A friend of mine that we had on the show last year said,

Kim Dennis, who was our medium that we had on, who was super interesting to talk to. We'll have to talk to her in the new year to see if she's got any new year vibes. But I don't know if you guys recall her saying, worrying is praying for things you don't want. Yes, that's exactly what it is. And I do that. I'm a worrier and I wish I wasn't. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, that's a, I mean, she told us a lot of stuff that day because Kim speaks really quickly, but that has lingered with me. In fact, I said that to Michael Buble when he was filming the Jan show this past year.

You know, he had all kinds of stuff going on with his family and traveling and COVID was happening. And we're all questioning, should we go here? Should we do this? And I said that Kim Dennis line to him. Well, you'd think that I would have taken like a watermelon and crashed it over his wife's head. He just looked at me in utter disbelief. And he goes, I will never forget that. What did you just say? I said, well, it's not my thing. I'm not going to take credit for it.

But yeah, you can worry your power away. And I remember that as a young woman. Why are we bringing this up on Christmas Day? Well, you know, because you're probably surrounded with your family and you're going to be engaging in a lot of battles today. Some of you will be.

Also, it's year-end vibes, right? We talk about the feeling of the new year and when you want to bring in the right energy and attract the right things and feel confident. And, you know, it's a reframe. It's like it's a popular reframe time of year. So I think about, you know, all the things that each person usually wants to get out of their life. And part of that usually includes a certain amount of financial security and career success. And I don't necessarily mean career success, like you're going to become the president of the company or whatever. But, you know,

some stability, some feeling good about where you go every day, like all that kind of stuff. So I do think that's really valuable and putting worry into context because one of the things I learned in therapy and there's an amazing doctor who I've cited before. Her name is Dr. Edith Eger and she is so wonderful and she has a great book called The Gift. She's also an Auschwitz survivor. Just an amazing perspective from an amazing person. And she talks about how you never worry about good things happening.

And but good things do still happen. And so but you don't sit there worrying about them. And it's just it's an interesting perspective because it's so hard when you're under pressure. And we all have been under immense pressure as a as a as the world for the last two years.

But we still have to try to hang in there and support each other by having these types of conversations. And from our own personal experiences and lives say, hey, you know, I've been down, but I pick myself up again. Jan, you're such a good example of that because you've had this amazing career. But inside of it, you've had so many careers like, you know, acting, music, storytelling, like all of that stuff. And you talk openly about how it's like it's been a road woven with many things.

I'm excellent at failing. I'm so good at failing. And it absolutely was a very different demographically challenging thing in my 20s and 30s, and even as a teenager. And I'm going to say even my 40s, Caitlin, I know it's probably not the greatest thing to hear, but failure to me, I took it so personally.

And I felt so my worth, my self-worth. And I always tell people I had confidence but no self-esteem. I mean, I don't even know how that's possible. But that was one of my bigger issues that I had. But now when I'm failing, I'm like, oh, damn, that didn't feel great. But that's okay because that means that I'm engaged. I'm trying.

And in order to fail, you have to be in a motion going at least kind of forward. You can certainly be going sideways, but in order to fail, you have to be doing something to fall out of. Yeah. So that always feels good because otherwise you're just sitting in a chair watching other people do things that you aspire to. So many people do that. Like, oh, why is he getting ahead? Why is she doing that? Well,

They're working harder than you. Yeah, they're pushing themselves. And I think everyone, everyone has that driver, that desire, that little voice inside of them that says you have something special about you to give to the world that only you can give. But everything else, all that outside noise makes you second guess it. It makes you feel afraid to take a

risk or to put yourself out there because you're afraid of failure, you're afraid of embarrassment, you got bills to pay. So I think all those things can cause people to sort of diminish, like you said, your self-esteem, even if you are confident in your abilities and you know you're smart and you have this great thing going for you. That self-esteem factor just...

it gets you. I have struggled with this for so many years about what do I want to do? And I wound up in radio just almost by accident. And I wanted to make documentaries and I wanted to go into journalism and this constant debate of like, are you in the right place? Are you doing the right thing? Are you surrounded by the right people? Is this your path to success? And feeling all the time like,

you know, the sands through the hourglass. Like, am I at this age? Have I missed my window? All of this stuff, because you're inundated with those lists of like 30 under 30 and 20 under 20 and so-and-so is a billionaire at 21 years old, that you feel like you've missed the boat. And I think that also doesn't help people very much because you're going to have so many things and trials and tribulations in your life. Yeah. And comparisons are definitely something that are very difficult to avoid, especially in

in the climate that we're living in with social media. You're looking at other people. You even go on there and you're like, you have never heard of this person in your life. And they're from South America or they're from India and they have 29 million followers. And you're like, I have no idea who this is, nor should I because they're not even in my hemisphere. But I think the second guessing part

That would be my advice constantly to young women is do not let your alter ego in your head usurp your initial ideas. Don't let your own self, this was, you're doing it before anybody else is even doing it. Before the boss comes in or a person that you work with in the next cubicle or somebody down the hallway, before they even start

before they even foil your plans, you're already doing it. That's what second guessing is that, that has, that doesn't even involve other people. That's just your decision making. And it's hard because you're thinking, Oh, I got rent next month. I got to put a down payment on that. I got my car payment. And it's terrible to be in a position where we have to make decisions based on our finances, because that's what most of us find ourselves in.

But I'm telling you, sometimes forging ahead like you were just saying, am I in the right place? Am I doing the right thing? Is this the universe? I feel like everything around you will start bumping you down that path. This is the tricky part, Caitlin, because you have to listen and observe and be aware of what those bumps are. So even stuff that's happened to you this week.

you know, things, whether it's in your personal life or at work or wherever it is, you're getting those bumps. Now it's up to you. Yes. What do I do with this? Cause I'm not getting the answers that I want. And this is not the outcome that I aspire to. Well, what are you getting the bumps for? Why are you being, why are you being, uh, it's like a, one of those pinball games. Why am I getting, why, why I want to go into that groove. Why aren't I getting there?

And I think sometimes when you get, you know, you view it, or at least I'm probably projecting, I view sometimes things that, like, it's just a change as a setback. Or it's like things are becoming, favor is less in your favor. And

I think sometimes just change in any form is actually good when you take a moment to like sit and absorb it and reframe it and say, but isn't it nice to have some honest answers? And now you can decide how you want to move forward. And you're the only one who like only you can reject you.

You know, you can't be rejected by other people and other things. Only you can reject yourself. So if you want to forge ahead and do your own thing somewhere, you can. And the freedom of the people all over the world who you don't even know exist but have 29 million followers now is that you can create some sort of your own identity online and you can take back control in your own life. And how many people have created an online business, especially in the creative field, which is, of course, where we all work.

And it's almost more equitable to just be able to pop on TikTok now, to just be able to build your own website, build your own YouTube channel. And I think all those things, in one way, it does cause you to compare yourself to others. But in another way, it can be really freeing if you empower yourself with those tools. Absolutely. It's a struggle. It is. But, you know, people are built for change. Human beings are built for change. And if there's ever been anything in our modern history...

Because trust me, 100 years from now, we're going to seem archaic. The people 100 years from now are going to go on, can you believe what they did? They didn't know better. They didn't know better. Oh my

Yes, they quarantined people. So 100 years from now, because you think about how we have perceived the pandemic, the influenza of 1917, where we lost between 50 and 70 million people on this planet. We look back at them and go, yeah, they didn't know. They did this. Anyway, you're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast. Doesn't this seem Christmassy to you? It does to me. I'm here with Caitlin Green and Adam Karsh. We're going to be right back.

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Welcome back to the Jan Arden Podcast. I'm here with Caitlin Green and Adam Karsh. We're talking about how you have to be responsible for the decisions you make and that it is so easy. And trust me, I have done this so many times in my life. I want to blame somebody else, another entity for my failures, for my not getting it right.

Whether it's something really personal, breaking something at home, I want to blame somebody else. Well, you left it at the edge of the counter. And if it hadn't have been there, then I wouldn't have effing knocked the thing off. So even like, I'm just making that into a small thing. But in the bigger sense of the, you know, in the world, you know, not wanting to stay in a job and blaming the man for

Because, well, I don't know what else to do and I can't just leave here. Do you know what I mean? I do. But it still comes down to you. Because right now, you've probably heard this term. We've certainly been talking about it on our morning show a lot because it's always trending. The great resignation. Yeah.

You know, the droves of people who are quitting jobs at once. And now Quit Talk has become a thing on TikTok. Do tell. It's people quitting their jobs and posting about it. Not necessarily bringing their phone with them in while they do it, but talking about

I feel like I've been some corporate drone for the last 10 years of my life. And now I'm going to quit on this date. And they talk about leading up to it. Then they talk about afterwards and they show you how they feel afterwards. Maybe they go on to have another job or they start their own business. So it's kind of the journey of quitting and the psychological role that our careers play in our lives and the attachment that, you know, how much money we make has to our self-worth, especially financially.

because of, you know, capitalism. So it's cool. It's cool to see that old chestnut, as I like to say. So I think that, you know, it is a, it's an ongoing conversation that people are having. And of course we are, we have just been through and are still going through this pandemic. And why wouldn't people be reevaluating how they spend eight hours a day? I mean, of course you would.

Totally. Well, I just, there's such a lack of, and we've talked about this again too, we keep, you know, we're revisiting things because it's the end of the year, but ski hills having 50% of their staff.

I went through security in an airport a few days ago. They had two lines open. It was very, they should have had five lines open, but I heard a gentleman behind me who was very, very angry. And I'm like, glad I'm not you, sir, because if that's how you're approaching life, you are going to just, you're going to end up having a heart attack. But he was basically yelling at this gentleman who was trying to direct traffic as best he could, human traffic. And

And he's just like, why isn't there more having people? You know, this is ridiculous. Our flights in half an hour. And I'm like, well, hey,

You should have been here three hours ago and already through here having your Starbucks. Hello, Starbucks. And the security manager was just like, sir, we're understaffed. I'm sorry. We have no staff. And my heart just sunk. I'm like, oh. Yeah. So you don't need to be like that. These people are doing the best they freaking can. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, people who are left, especially in the service sector. Although I do think that certain... When you have a sector like retail and service that have been decimated by this great resignation, you do have to look at the unhealthy nature of that industry and that people are saying, we are propping up corporate profits for fast food corporations and for these big hotel groups.

And we're doing it in the middle of a pandemic. We're working these thankless jobs for no money. We're putting ourselves at risk because we're quote unquote the frontline workers and oh, we're frontline heroes. But then that's never supported with pay increase or quality of life increase at work.

So I'm like, I'm happy to see that people are taking back their own power and saying, if I don't have any reason to be here financially for myself, and it's also taking a toll on my physical and mental health, I'm going to get out of here. And that's, I think, what you were talking about earlier is just taking that power back and recognizing that if you know in your heart and in your gut and in your head that this isn't working for you anymore, you're

and you decide to stay, you're kind of holding yourself hostage. You can make a plan while you're doing it financially to get out. Yeah, you can. You can make a plan. You can do it. You can do it. You can get out from under that if you're working at a restaurant job that you hate. Start working on something for yourself today and do what you have to to live with the discomfort in the meantime for sure. That's a skill that I feel like

people develop over the course of their life. Like being able to live alongside of discomfort more so than you were when you were younger. I think about the stuff that I freaked out about, you know, when I was in my twenties, I was like, Oh boy, what a luxury. You just derailed yourself real quick at that. Now I'm like, Oh man, I can live alongside some serious discomfort. Yeah.

Well, time equals wisdom. You know, it's just that the years going past and we're also reluctant to take advice. My mom and my grandmother both, I was very lucky, but my mom was that person, you know, while you're sitting in your bedroom crying to your David Cassidy records. Well, something will come up. Something will come up.

And it doesn't seem like it really lands, the something will come up when you're sitting there, you know, crying your head off. But something always did come up. Something always did shift. And, you know, and also those old sayings, well, maybe it's not such a bad thing after all. Maybe it seems bad, but it's not that bad. And so I've kind of just adjusted that

her whole mantra. And I always say good things come out of bad things. And I've been saying that for years. So I do speaking engagements a lot. And I kind of lean on that, the whole speech. And I love it when people are tweeting things from a talk that they've heard me give when they say good things come out of bad things. Thanks, Jan Arden. Because when you're standing in the muck,

When you're there and you can't move and you feel like you're just getting pinged with garbage and everything's going wrong, you don't see how many things are going right. And I'll go back to that thing where you said you don't worry about good things happening. And it's very difficult to understand as quickly as things go bad, that's how quickly they go good. Mm-hmm.

But we cannot think in those terms because it's just not built into modern human beings to feel like we are A, valued, deserving, and worthwhile. Absolutely. We just don't feel like we are. How we get there is a pretty common thing because it's a thread that runs through all of our hearts.

And much of our everyday life and again of, you know, North American society is designed to separate you from that feeling of inherent self-worth and to question your skills and to question your worth based on how much money you make or career success you've had or comparing yourself to other people. But it's true and absolutely everyone has it. And there's value, like you said, when you're standing in the muck. There's value in the muck and there's truth there. And it's crummy when you're in it.

But at the same time, I also think, and this is something else that I've read a lot about and listened to doctors discuss, like psychiatrists discuss,

is that happiness, you know, back, you know, 10, 20 years ago was really this goal, like how to, how to be happy, how to have the happiest life like this. And it's not a baseline emotion, by the way, you're not supposed to be feeling happy all the time. It's not sustainable and happiness doesn't exist without sadness because how would you know happiness if you don't know sadness, what they know now, the key. Yeah, you can't. And the key to feeling good. And I guess I should say, and the key to feeling, um,

and on good footing in your life actually doesn't lie in feeling quote unquote happy. It lies in doing something that gives your life meaning and in having a purpose. They say that's actually a much more realistic goal to have as a human being than this, oh, I just want to be happy. And you're like, well, you're not.

going to be happy. There's no silver bullet to happiness. It's different for everybody what that is. Yeah. But the media will tell you it's running down a beach with a perfect body with a cold beer in your hand and having the arms of a lover strewn around your neck. This is what we're sold.

It is a visual idea of happiness. It is an eternity pool somewhere in Brazil where you're drinking drinks out of a half-cut pineapple with straws made out of who knows.

uh, tagger fingernails. It's just like that. That was horrible. I take that back. But, um, it really is. So the happiness is so homogenized and I'm with you a million percent, Caitlin and Adam would agree with this too. It's about purpose. Um,

It's about serving others. We all know how good it feels to help somebody, to help something. You cannot tell me you walk away from a situation where you see a guy wipe out on a parking lot on the ice and you drop everything and you go over and you grab his arm and you think...

This is where my worth lies in the service of others. But that's why we want jobs that are in the service of others, bringing entertainment, bringing value, giving, helping people enjoy their mornings. Like these are all really important things. You're listening to the Jen Arden podcast. We're going to be right back. It's Christmas. Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho.

Welcome back to the Jan Arden Podcast, the Christmas edition 2021. Can you believe, Caitlin Green and Adam Karsh, that we are coming out of another year of pandemic? We're coming into a new year where does it, do things feel like they've changed or does it kind of feel even a little more daunting than 2020 because we're in the fourth, are we in the fourth wave? Or is this the third wave? I don't even know. I don't even know. I don't even know.

And you know what? I don't even care. I feel bad saying that. I'm not some nihilist, but I mean, I care about our healthcare system and I care about our most vulnerable. That's what I, that's what I'll say. And that's kind of where I park it and where I leave it. And this whole, is it going to be a thousand people in an arena or is it going to be 17,000 or is it going to be, ah, like I just can't follow it anymore. I want to know how sick are people getting? Are they at risk?

How are our vulnerable populations doing? Are you really taking care of the people who are in long-term care? And then after that, I like to look around and say just as valuable is the question of how is everyone's mental health doing? Because I'll tell you, in my group of friends and in my DMs,

It's not great. It's not great. I posted a little thing this week and it was just basically a commentary on Christmas. No, it was last week actually. And it was a commentary on Christmas and it was just a little image that said, it is all right if everything does not feel merry and bright. Just a note to say, let's all just keep that in mind that it's okay to not feel great, even if it is the holidays. And my DMs,

dang near exploded because, because it was, it was around the time that we know we had the new, the new updates on boosters and all that verbiage was around and Omicron and whatever. And yeah, a bunch of people were overwhelmed. And so I think when you go into the new year, we're sitting here like, does it feel the same? Does it feel different for people? Does it feel worse? It's, it's a, it's another reassessment heading into the new year in this weird context. What was the nature of the DMs you were getting back? Thank you for saying that. Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you for saying that. I feel like crap this year. You know, a lot of personal stories, some people who are separated and say, you know, I'm not going to be with my kids at Christmas. They're going to be at my exes. And it always bothers me the years that I don't have them. And, and then people saying, um, some of my family members aren't vaccinated, so we can't see them at Christmas or people were supposed to be flying in and now they're concerned about flying. So our Christmas, it feels like they said, it feels like Christmas is canceled. And just like only you can reject you. Only you can cancel Christmas is how I feel. Um,

Like you can still do things and you can assess the risk of things. And there are PCR tests that you can go pay and get. Like we have tools, you know, get your boosters, test galore, do whatever you need to do to make the situation as low risk as it can be for your family members and loved ones. But you don't have to run around like so, so scared all the time. That's how, that's what I want for people. My wish for the world. It's true. I think the pressure to be

Having your apron tied around your hips and whistling through your kitchen with flashing lights and your cookie exchange that's gone off perfectly and you've got everything laid out and the green bean casserole is in the oven and everything's ready to roll. I think the pressure is insurmountable. I just...

Last year I spent by myself and my friends had sent me a few things to open on Zoom or whatever, but I just remember sitting there crying. And I was crying because I just felt...

I was just kind of dislocated, but I wasn't, it wasn't bad. I don't want to sound like I wasn't feeling sorry for myself. It was almost a gratitude thing. I was sitting there. I had the fireplace going. There was a little bit of music. A couple of my friends were on this call. I was opening a few things and I just thought, you know, I'm stronger than I think I am. Yes. Yes. I feel stronger than I think I am. And, um,

We can all be so hard on ourselves because, you know, you measure your strength against other people. Like, you know, friends that are going through similar things. And then, of course, that whole thing comes in where we feel guilty about...

How can we set the guilt aside that we are with a few family members and our kids are with us and you do have the grandparents? And if you're anything like me, guys, I feel guilty when I'm doing joyful things, not all the time, but certainly in these times. It's been very hard for me to take that off of my ribcage and set my guilt on a table when I'm doing good things. Mm-hmm.

or enjoyable things or having a meal. This has been new in the last 20 months for me is trying to reconcile feelings of happiness. I know we just spoke about that with other people that can't even fathom how that could be right now. So I'm just, it's that rock and a hard place. I hate it, but I don't really know how to fix it.

I struggle with that piece also. It is a really hard piece for people because you are never, most empathetic people are never going to be dismissive of anyone else's comfort level or their sort of personal like litmus test on risk right now. And it is so personal and it impacts other people. And then, but you know, it is just also, I don't want to overlook the mental health pandemic that we're all living in. Oh,

And what it does to people's psyche to take away the things you like and treat it like an act of heroism, to deny yourself connection with other human beings, which we so desperately need.

And we've all done really well, guys. Pat yourself on the back. I mean, you go out there, you lock down. You lock down for a really long time. You look out for your neighbours. You help old people get groceries. You know, Vaccine Hunters Canada were just volunteers who dedicated themselves to getting shots in arms. And people who maybe were a little afraid of the vaccines went and they got it and they did it. And you put your mask on and you hang in there. And then you feel a little thwarted when...

when it's like, oh, another variant, another thing comes up. But I just think it's like, take that moment, pat yourself on the back and say, you made it really far. Humans are resilient. We're going to move forward. And you have to decide how to reduce your risk yourself and how to take care of the people in your immediate circle. And that's, you know, you can't worry about the finger wagging all the time because I just think it's making people miserable and they turn on each other. That drives me crazy too. I don't like the turning on each other. And I...

I know that an overwhelming majority of people in my everyday life are so, so safe and all they care about is other people. And so I'm like, I don't think we need to be stressing out those people. They're already stressed out as a baseline to begin with. If I can be so, and Caitlin, you can stop me whenever you want. If there's any discomfort, what you have endured, you and Kyle, your family, your friends, your workmates, anyone that knows you, what you and Kyle went through this summer and

Um, on top of, yeah, on top of the year. Right. And it's, it's, it is a correct assessment, but I think it's been, it's a lesson in resilience, which is why I liked when you said that you were like, I was sitting there on Christmas and I was like, I'm stronger than I think. I think that you learned that you're stronger than you think, hopefully. And that your autopilot is good. How have you, how have you been doing? How, how,

And how are you feeling with everything that's going on? We haven't really talked about it. Let's check in on Christmas. It's true, though. Well, I mean, is there ever a time? Maybe that's a lesson in this, too. What is the day? Do you...

This is the day in my opinion, because it's like, you know, it's the holidays and everyone's, the most caring thing you can do is check in on your friends and family. And I'll say we are, we are so well supported by our family and friends, like the close people of which I count both of you. You guys have both been so great. And it has, it pushes you, forces you into therapy and into connections with other people who've gone through losses, who have a lot to teach you and who reach out. This is crazy. We, you know, lost parents always say it's a,

it's a club you're dragged kicking and screaming into but when you get there there's a lot of support and there's a lot of human connection and then you can kind of light the way for people who reach out to moving forward I've had women reach out to me who've gone through very similar losses to my own and I was maybe the only person they knew who had experienced something like this or talked openly about it and then it was a chance to connect with them so I think that that's the superpower of grief is it's an opportunity to connect with other people because you

suffering is universal whether or not it's you know of the loss of a loved one or like we've discussed before on the show a divorce a job whatever there is that experience of loss so you know I try to take things away from it and to sort of learn from that experience and to sort of instead of feeling like it's post-traumatic stress it's like post-traumatic growth

And so that's post-traumatic growth. And that's also, again, not to be like a therapy person all the time. It's not for everyone. Maybe some people don't want to go, but it's true. And it's been so, so helpful to me. Group therapy, individual therapy, CBT therapy. And it's stuff that I would never have pushed myself to go to before this. And now I'm like, oh, I'm deserving of it. I'm deserving of the help. And now I can try to help others. Yeah.

You're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast. Caitlin Green, Adam Karsh. We'll be right back. Welcome back to the Jan Arden Podcast. It's the 25th of December, 2021. The best is yet to come. My mom used to say that in the middle of her Alzheimer's. Caitlin, I think post-traumatic, the post-traumatic, what was he, what was your post-traumatic growth made post-traumatic growth folks. Um,

Boy, if that isn't an absolute 2021 sentence for all of us. But once again, I can't tell you how inspiring you and Kyle have been getting the chance to know you, your vulnerability, your willingness to share your story with the world, you know, for anyone to kind of open that page for

of your life and look into what you guys have been through and, and, and sharing that. And, um, it's just been, I mean, I don't know how you've done it. I still have people, you know, coming up to me asking about you all the time. And I never miss the opportunity to tell people how unbelievably inspiring you are and how strong you are and how smart you are.

And I've learned a lot from you this year, Caitlin. Oh, thank you. But I just have learned a lot from your vulnerability, your fragility. But on the other side of that, that ability to go, okay, this is what life has done. My husband and I have lost a child. And now what? And the idea of love. And we spoke just for a second on the break. How do we...

tie up this episode, how do we go use these last few minutes and talk about the significance and the importance and the value and the magnitude of human life and the magnitude of love and caring about each other. If there was ever a day where

to talk about it. Not that I'm a religious person, but everyone's in a house right now with their families or their friends, hopefully. And love, love, love, love, acceptance, tolerance, understanding. It's the most important thing that, you know, we all have to give to ourselves and to other people. And it's really been the thing that was overwhelmingly, you know, shown to us,

you know, in those first few weeks and in this entire year from strangers too, though, like you said, people coming up and asking you about me and it changes your perspective on the world. I mean, I hate to say this, but it feels like I was kind of living on the surface before because, you know, you maybe hadn't been through hardship. And so you don't talk about a lot of, and I had been like, I'm not trying to dismiss it. I'm far from having a charmed life, but I mean to say that,

I was forced into a rather public discussion around this because it was such a late loss. And so my pregnancy was public knowledge. So I did have to address it. I really didn't have a choice. And as a result, though, it created an opportunity for so many clients

just for complete strangers to come forward. And every time you were like, look at all these great people. And it's like that Mr. Rogers cliche of like, you look for the helpers. There are tons of them. You know, the tornadoes in Kentucky that happened, all the people that just showed up with barbecues and started cooking food and doing the right thing for each other. That stuff can not be more important. And it becomes so obvious when you go through a hardship.

So I think that was a really valuable lesson for both of us out of all this. And it was an important part of our reframing the loss and looking at it and saying, there are still good things here. And life is going to lead you in unexpected places. And you try not to take it personally. And I have a good friend who's, she's been through a lot of loss in her life. And she said one of the things her mom said to her was that you have to try not to feel ripped off by life.

And enter feeling life is targeting you and that this is somehow your fault or you could have done something. No, it just happens. And you take the lessons from it as you will. And mine was really that people are pretty great. Like they are the healthcare professionals who helped us, you know, you guys, listeners. I was like, you know, this bad thing has happened, but people are really quite nice. They're good. They want to help.

And given even the worst person out there the opportunity to do the right thing, I think that's what we have to remind ourselves is sometimes we have to give them the opportunity and the chance to be good, to do the right thing, to help. And it's usually people that are so reluctant to roll their sleeves up and be part of a community are usually so hurt that

And so they're just like, there are no good people out there. You know, every time I've tried to do something, I've been, you know, kicked in the ass. And every time, you know, talk to my older brother and, you know, you kind of get that. But then there's this other part of him. He'd be the first person in the world, you know, as a man that spent 28 years in jail, he'd be the first person to help you and, you know, push your car out of a ditch or take his shoes off and give them away. Like,

I really do admire him. I don't know him that well, I think, half the time because we were apart for decades. And we were apart before he went in because of his drugs and alcohol. But he's an example to me of someone who could come out of there as a very unbelievably unkind and angry man. And he's the kindest, most thoughtful person ever.

And he's just like a vein, just like a vein hanging off of a spinal cord. You know, here's a guy that's come out. He's been riddled with health problems. He lost his foot a couple of months ago, you know, diabetic. And then he had an infection. And he's still like, well, you know, I probably deserve it. But, you know, it could be worse. Better me than you, hey, Jannie? That sent me better me than you.

You're just like, and he was so earnest about it. Yeah. That it's those moments when you think you actually effing mean that. You really think better off my foot's gone because you need your feet. I don't need nothing. I don't deserve two feet. Like, I don't know. You learn lessons all the time in the most unexplainable ways.

unexpected places of the things that life throws at us. And there's that old adage of, you know, it's not what happens to you in this life. It's how you deal with it. You know, how many times have we heard that from everybody? Yeah. Yeah.

I think of our friend Zaya Tong and the story of your brother kind of reminded me of this. She shared this quote. It's a quote from Rumi and she shared it on her Twitter a while ago and it said, if everything around seems dark, look again, you may be the light. And it just speaks to like, right? I know, I'm like, how many mind-blown moments are we supposed to have in one episode? But

Really, that's the true nature of the capabilities we all have to light the way for other people in moments of darkness. And it can be something as simple as having an exchange with somebody on the street that's pleasant, talking to a cashier, helping out a neighbor, helping out your friends and family, all that stuff. And it can be bigger, of course. You can try to fundraise for charity. I mean, I should also point out, again, credit to all of the listeners and amazing people in our life.

I think Sam's fundraiser for women and infant health at Mount Sinai is somewhere over $40,000 right now. Wow. It's this again, like, like your brother, it's people who think of others. They want to help. They want to do whatever they can to alleviate some of your suffering and to give you something nice. And so I, I do feel like that's, that is the lesson I try to take into 2022. And isn't that also really the meaning of Christmas? Well,

When you boil down what Christmas is really supposed to be. And I think I was trying to articulate that perhaps sometimes poorly in past episodes, though, when I say you don't have to do all the things and buy all the presents and have this Christmas version of perfection. It's really supposed to be about loving and caring for other people. It's love, love, and love. And, you know, human beings are our greatest resource.

other people is our great it's our only way forward is together and so we have to figure out how to do it anyway it's been a pleasure this year the longest season in podcast history 109 episodes or something we have long seasons folks you don't want to miss out um be of good cheer in the words of my mother the best is yet to come in the words of caitlin green uh it's what you're saying uh

Post-traumatic growth. Post-traumatic. Yes, post-traumatic growth. I don't know why I'm having a break. It's so profound. I can't remember it. Anyway.

2022, here we come. Still season one. It's still season one. Adam Karsh, all the best to your family. Caitlin, all the best to your family. Love you guys. Love you. Merry Christmas. And to all our listeners, thanks for hanging out with us. It's just been great. We're looking forward to finally having Starbucks come in and sponsor us. Starbucks, are you out there? We're the right person. Anyway, love you guys. See you soon. Totally do. Bye.

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