The Nipple Sisters and the C Word
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Well, hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jan Arden Podcast and show. As always, I am here with Sarah Burke. Listen, we've got a couple of women here that I admire so much. Casey Rainey and Carmelina Bakari are certified paramedical pigmentation specialists. We're not throwing around the word tattoo here, okay? We're saying paramedical pigmentation specialists.

And they are united through their shared passion to improve the lives of cancer warriors. Together, they have helped hundreds, if not thousands of women regain confidence, regain dignity, regain confidence.

just their place in life and their ideas about themselves. So please make welcome Casey Rainey and Carmelina Bakari, the Nipple Sisters. Wow, what an intro. I love that intro, Jen. Thank you. Jen, just crushing it. Well, your social media is very funny. It's heartbreaking. It's heart-wrenching. It's inspiring. I think it's so supportive and hopeful and

Tell me a little bit about where this started and what it is exactly that you're doing for those people that aren't following you guys on social media. And we're going to make sure we have all the info on this podcast where people can go and click your socials. Carmelina, maybe start with you of where this began. So cancer brought Casey and I together. I met Casey years ago and then I got diagnosed with breast cancer.

went through a year of treatments, chemotherapy, surgery, radiation. And Casey was so, she wasn't afraid of the, you know, the C word cancer. A lot of people are, but Casey is so sweet. She reached out, sent me a beautiful card, was always kind of checking in. And cancer brought us together because she was affected by cancer as well. She lost her father at 17 years old.

And she has a rare genetic mutation called Lynch. So 80% chances of getting cancers like colon, skin cancer. And she had a scare with a tumor in her breast as well. But cancer has brought us together. We share our art by giving back and restoring hope, confidence, and

Giving back what was taken because it's not just for others to see, like the 3D nipple art that we create. It's for ourselves. I know when I thought I was going to lose my nipple or when they said, oh, you have cancer, the first things that came to my mind, and it's vain, and I know most cancer patients can relate to this and breast cancer patients, I didn't want to lose my hair.

I didn't want to die and I didn't want it was my nipple. So it's very traumatizing, uh, physically, emotionally, and it's a mind fuck. Sorry if I said that. Yeah, no, no, we, we, we got more beeps than sense on this show. Um, cause I'm like, it is that it really is. No, don't fucking worry about that. Uh,

Casey, do you have a background in tattooing? I know that we called it paramedical pigmentation. I have so many questions here, but I do want to start with the background in tattooing. Were you, you know, putting hearts and arrows on people's shoulders and, you know, sailor ladies and like your backgrounds? Was it just sort of traditional tattooing that led you to this place?

You know, we were like back alley tattoo artists. No, I'm totally kidding. We started, um, Carmen, I actually started together. So like she had mentioned, we were in the makeup world to start. And then when our, uh,

trauma of cancer brought us together. We were like, this could be our talent permanently changing women's lives. And so we went on an adventure to figure out where we can train, how we can do this properly so we can bring the best quality of reconstruction to women.

Because women deserve to have the best treatment. And so we went on a quest and that's how we started to train. So we are not only certified within Canada, but we're internationally certified. So unlike traditional tattooing,

We understand and we respect that art form so, so much. We both have tattoos ourselves, all of the things. We love the traditional tattoo style, but we specialize specifically in hyperpigmentation, in areola restoration, scars. I mean, you name anything that a surgeon cannot fix surgically, we can fix through the power of

and arts and ink. Yeah, it's an optical illusion. Yes. The stuff that you put on your pages. And I know with Instagram, you did have some trouble with what they were allowing you to post because you were showing women's naked breasts and you were showing reveals of women looking for the first time at their breasts with these unbelievably real looking nipples. Right.

on women that had reconstructive surgery, partial mastectomies where they had lumps removed and big scars and lost a nipple in the process and often both nipples.

But it's incredible the lifelike nature of them. Like when you run that gloved hand, that finger over the nipple to show people this is a flat surface. Like it really is mind boggling. I feel like it literally is magic. And the reveals of every woman that you have, obviously you ask them if you can, you know, can we show you on our Instagram page, on our socials.

They are clearly joyful by what they're looking at because they've been looking at breasts for a long time that don't look like their breasts. That's one of our favorite things about adding life to their amputated chest that's been amputated and then reconstructed. And they've gone through like treatments and then surgeries, multiple some. And some were dealing terminally ill women that cancer has returned.

but they don't realize themselves how healing it is. It's when they jump out of the shower or walk past a mirror and they're not hiding themselves. Or if they go to yoga class, they're not hiding their chest because they don't have nothing there because there's an illusion that there's actually something there. So when they come see us, there's three motions. We always say this to them. They're nervous, they're afraid, and then they're joyfully happy. Like they're crying at the end of it because they didn't realize how much that...

color adds so much back into their life or a chapter that's not been closed. Cause I don't think it's ever closed when you have, you've had cancer, you just kind of keep going and change your outlook on life. But it adds like a,

that they didn't know was there. Does that make sense? Yeah. Cause as women, the nipples are for us. Yeah. Like, yeah, we, we wish we could hang a key chain on them, but like, but like it's for us. Oh, I don't, I don't want to hang a key chain on my nipple. You don't have to be too small, Jan. I think I can hold a beer bottle under my breast, you know, on a good day. You know, the pencil test, my gosh, I don't think that's existed since I was 15. I,

I passed that in grade eight as well, don't worry. I'm on the beer bottle. Yeah, no, I have big boobs. I mean, I'm not going to say my size on the show, but I, and I love my big boobs. Like a lot of people, I totally get it having augmentation, but you know, for women that are doing this reluctantly because they're going through cancer treatments. And like you said, there's radiation, there's surgeries involved. Sometimes there's

There's months and months, you know, multiple months of chemo treatment. And so you're feeling really crappy through that whole process. So to come out of it at the end with these, and I can't tell you how impressive it is of what you give these women. And my question to you is,

Do they get to look at like a chart, you know, with teeth whitening? They're like, how white would you like? Here's your chart. Here's one, here's 10. So obviously every woman, depending on ethnicity and all those kinds of things, there's different looking nipples. Do women get to say to you guys, that's my nipple. That's the one that I want. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay, cool. So it's their custom to each patient. So there's two parts to this.

essentially like the level and the quality of work that we as the Nipple Sisters, we work in tandem together on patients. So that's one thing that is very unique about us. So I'm left-handed, Carm's right-handed and we work and then we switch sides. So we creatively can see the illusion coming from different angles and

and viewpoints. So we create such, such depth or, or highlights. But it is a whole process in color matching and that's where the professionalism comes into play and why we push so hard for this industry to become regulated because it's not. And you want to do way more good than harm for your patient. You mean anyone could go into a tattoo artist and say, give me a nipple. And it's really not,

are sanctioned medically. So women out there that are thinking about doing this, don't just march in

to a tattoo place, please. Like that's why we're doing these shows. It's to educate and to enlighten and to let people know that there is a path forward and that you want to make good. You don't want to make your life more complicated and more difficult than it already has been. So, so yeah. And Carmen, I always say, I mean, a huge part of this whole process is it's come a long way and we are so thankful for the incredible resources,

reconstructive surgeons and surgeons that are just like the total fighters for their warriors. They understand the magnitude of which the areola nipple complex being tattooed, they understand how complicated that art form is. And that's why they refer to specialists such as us, whereas let's say back in the day, but still currently happening.

there still are some surgeons out there or others within that facility tattooing who aren't certified or qualified. So it's creating more harm to a patient. And the amount, I mean, Carm can talk to this too, the amount of corrective work that we see, it's just, it breaks our heart because it's knowing that you have to go through this again as a warrior. And it's, you know, we come in and we see that and we're just like,

Holy shit. Like we know we can fix this, but this is going to be another journey that this should have never happened in the first place. You know what I mean? It's like the tattoo world. There's so many. I love traditional tattoo artists. It's more like not being trained on damaged, traumatized skin. Yes. So if you're working on skin that's been traumatized,

there's more trauma, it can actually do more damage when we do correction because then we can't get the work done as easy because it's been damaged already for the second time. It's like you're working on tissue paper. I can't even fathom. No, honest to God, looking at the photographs and the videos, sometimes the scarring going right over where you would literally be tattooing over a scar. How is the pain threshold for these women? I would imagine there would be

some loss of sensitivity in those areas of surgery, but is it something that you try and make as pleasant as possible with, you know, a numbing cream or a bottle of vodka or a big fat doobie? Yeah. All the above. I'm like, just pop this. It'll be fine. Yeah.

Most of the women don't have a feeling there, but some do. And we use a topical anesthetic and we make sure they're as comfortable as possible. And sometimes they'll feel it in their toe or in their head in certain areas. Oh, wow. Nerves are crazy. Yeah. So, so it's very, we make it very comfortable. Sarah, I know that you want to say something. I saw your brows lift up.

I'm like, how do you feel it in your toe from your breast? That's crazy. You don't know. But it's like that. Well, they were talking about amputations and people that lose limbs, they feel toes and ankles and elbows their entire lives. Those phantom pains, you know, they don't have their leg anymore, but they literally have pain where their ankle would be like

in three dimensions. So the human body is incredible, the nervous system. I'm asking these questions because I feel like this is what women would ask when they got in there. And this is what I would be asking. Where do you put it? So my boo

my boobs are hanging pretty low. Like in a perfect world, I would probably want to move them from where they were and move them up to give the optical illusion that my boobs are higher. So is there an art form? Is there like a mathematical equation where you get a ruler out and go, this is where it should be? Yes. Yes. Like you definitely don't want like Eastie Westies and-

I know headlights. They kind of have to sit like a little bit. Yeah. But that's where our specialty with our mapping and having two sets of eyes on a patient is so fantastic because sometimes we're dealt with challenging cases. And just to further what you're asking there, Jan, about sensation-wise, something that I think is...

wildly under discussed or not discussed is the fact that skin grafts come from the most incredible places on the body. Like the body is insane, but Carmen, I over the years and years and years have seen so many varieties. I mean, we're talking about, um,

skin coming from the back of like your shoulder with the muscle attached to it to recreate a shelf for then your breast implant to sit in. Then we're talking about inner thigh grafts. We're talking about a graft called a TNP graft. So that's like a hip to hip scar, like a tummy tuck almost where this skin is repurposed up onto the chest

the nerve endings are connected, everything's reconnected, but you have the full structure of your stomach on your chest. So talk about phantom pains or sensations. Like sometimes Carmen and I laugh because if there's a DIEP graph, which is coming from your lower stomach, your pubic area. So sometimes we got a little curly frowns up in there. So

So you'll literally have hair that'll be coming up, pubic hair around the breast that has to be dealt with. Yeah, yeah. But it's repurposed tissue, right? So it makes sense where it's coming from. Like you would have hair growth down there and then you would have it now repurposed into this breast. And the tissue's even different to work on. Don't give bald men any ideas. Yeah.

Yeah, now they're going to all... You know, they're like, doctor, I heard this on a podcast. Is there any way you can take anything around my balls and put it on the top of my head? Exactly. Exactly.

You know, I just, I wouldn't put it past anybody to attempt that. Now, have you ever had a woman come in, you know, maybe she's, you know, been a goth girl or, you know, just someone who's just really had that edge in her young life. And there's younger and younger women getting breast cancer all the time, whether that's environmental, whether that's whatever is going on in the world, it is showing up much younger. This used to be an old lady's disease. Right. Much younger. Yeah.

So do they ever want like stars or a moon on there? Or have you ever had anyone like, can you put a, I don't know, I can't imagine. Have you

Have you ever had different requests other than a nipple? Yeah. We specialize in 3D hyperrealism areolas. So we guide them to the top tattoo artists that we feel that could do that for them that will, you know, a flower or if they want a lace bra, but usually most of them want nipples, but yes, there are requests. Like I've seen people want like a flower around it or a

A heart. Big heart. Yeah. A pink heart or something. But yeah, we guide them to the best tattoo artists that we have on our Rolodex and just guide them that way. If you have really traumatic scarring, so sometimes the scars are super ropey and there's just nothing you can do about that. They're hyperpigmentated, meaning that they're overproducing melanin. So it's very purple and red and very prominent, even though it's healed. Like our warriors still would like the look of a

the anatomy of an areola. But then they also would like what Carm's saying is that kind of beautiful floral maybe just to cover and camouflage. So a little bit of both. A little bit of both. So there's different variations. And I think that's so important for warriors out there to know the different options that you can have. Like we can camouflage those scars so that they blend more into your skin and you just have the anatomy look.

Or you could have the anatomy look with a bunch of florals and beautiful artwork all across your chest. Like it's customizable to you. And like, that's what we really like to stand for as the nipple sisters. And we push because this part of the whole process is,

is one thing that you get to choose as the warrior. This is your fucking moment. Everything else has been told to you how it's going to go. And when you end up at our table and you're sitting in our chair, guess what? We're customizing nipples for you. So it's like your moment. So they pick size. They pick color remix. Yeah, I love that. They show us an old picture of what they're...

their girlfriend or husband wants or wife or husband, all that. So it's pretty cool. What are the reactions of the partners? Because, you know, they've gone through this journey with their loved one.

And, you know, even if it's a sister or a mom or an aunt or somebody that they're showing for the first time, that must be pretty gratifying for you to experience those moments. We get these messages, especially when their husband, they're surprising their husband and they're like, oh, my God. Or the best one is when they went to their doctors. Yeah. And there was a student doctor and they had no idea. Yeah. They thought it was a real nipple. That's our favorite. Yeah.

No, you literally have like the little hair follicle bumps or, you know, the dark and the very tip of the nipple looks like it has little tiny punctures, almost like when a woman had been nursing and little tiny perforations where the baby would have been drawing the milk. Like, you know, if you zoom in on the photos, I never have. But if you do...

I have never zoomed in. You would be absolutely stunned at, you know, how they look.

It really is incredible. It's just incredible what you guys do. Have you done any men? I know it's, it's not, it's rare in men to have breast cancer, but have you done male nipples? Yes, we have. Okay. We work on men that have had surgeries that they've lost a lot of weight and they need to get rid of. Gyneplasty. Yeah. Essentially like you've lost a very, a huge amount of weight and then they take this. Oh, sure. Sure. Yeah. Transgenders we've done, which is a great,

Yes. Yeah. Top surgeries for trans patients. Something else that's like really cool too, that kind of ties all of this together. And it's something that doesn't always come to mind, but when,

when you are having such a huge surgery. So for example, um, male patients, excessive skin loss, you know, it's a full tummy tuck and then it's a full, um, reconstruction of the chest. But when a surgery like that occurs, the surgeon recreates your belly button. And anytime that you cut the skin, there's always a chance of narcosis. So costumers,

Carmen and I have done multiple, multiple 3D belly buttons because the narcosis kills the tissue and then you just have like

blank stomach up to your nipples it's like the funniest looking toy I have never thought of that by not having your belly button yeah yeah it's like a different version of a nipple but just on your stomach and some women lose their nipple to necrosis after a augmentation not even two breaths cancer we get all types of surgeries coming to us yeah we honor those women as well and to further what you were saying Jana about the younger demographic coming in

I mean, Carmen and I both, we see this so frequently. I know the stats now one in every eight female will develop breast cancer over a lifetime, but we are noticing the younger, it's getting younger and younger. In their 20s, like early 20s. Early 20s. Let's talk about early detection and let's talk about the journeys. Like Carmelina, for you especially, you felt something in your lymph node. Mm-hmm.

and you just felt something wasn't right, kind of, was it underneath your armpit kind of in there? And it was just, so we want to speak to that because for any of you statistic people out there, it's a scary one, one in eight. I want to say that, you know, it's a very curable form of cancer and especially if it's caught early. And yes, there is fatalities and we do hear about that, but it's one in 34. For most of those fatalities,

It's usually very late stage that these things have been caught and that women have ignored their bodies. They have ignored the signs. They have had things that just aren't right. We are going to be right back with Carmelina Bakari and Casey Rainey, the Nipple Sisters. Yes, you heard it right. There's so much left to talk about on the Jan Arden Podcast and Show.

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Welcome back to the Jan Arden podcast and show. We are here with two of the most impressive young women that live right here in Alberta, Carmelina and Casey, the Nipple Sisters. So let's speak to that for women that are afraid. I don't want to go in because I don't want to find out, which is a really silly thing to think. So I felt it didn't hurt. It was a pulsating under my left arm.

I didn't know the correlation between my lymph nodes and breast cancer. I was in Italy. I remember I was in my, my best friend, Tony's house. We grew up together. He was coming out of the shower and he comes out and like, Hey Tony, I feel like there's like my arm. It's like, there's, it's pulsating. Um,

I hope it's not breast cancer. I said it out loud without even knowing. And he's like, oh, don't say that, boo. I'm like, he's like my brother. I'm like, no. And then it kept in the back of my mind. Came back to Canada. You know, you just know something. I didn't feel sick. It's like my body was telling me without telling me that something was wrong. So I went to the doctor. He's like, oh, don't worry. Your lymph nodes swell when you're a little bit sick. He's like, you're too young.

But I pushed to go, I'd like to get a mammogram, ultrasound. And it was like five months and I was going to pay earlier because I felt something wasn't right, even though it didn't hurt or I didn't feel sick at all.

So it's crazy. Your body does secretly speak to you. You have to listen. Was the cancer in the lymph node itself or in your breast? It moved to my lymph node from my breast. And when I went to get the ultrasound mammogram, I was waiting in the room. They were taking so long. The doctor came in. This is before my biopsy. He told me I see cancer. He told me right that day without even a biopsy. And I'm like, what? Are you sure it's a cyst? I'm so thankful he told me that day because the biopsy is like 10 days later.

He's like, no, I seen it. And it's moved from your breast to your lymph nodes. And what's dangerous about that, which I was kind of blocked out at the time is it can metastasize quickly, those little cells to your body and breast cancer. What's scary about it, and I think I blocked it out for survival mode, is that, yes, chemo can work sometimes and it can't work all the time. But it's the metastasize that's the most dangerous.

Cause it's those little cells that can travel. You don't, you don't want them moving. You don't want them going lung, brain, liver. You just, you want to deal with it. So the lesson is, and Casey, you would agree too, because you have a genetic disposition with family history and it is in your DNA that the percentages are higher. You must be on high alert. And I'm wondering, you know, how you navigate your life without living in a constant state of terror and a constant state of anxiety and

to try and have a bold, happy, positive life without living in a place where worry consumes you because that doesn't work either. And it's not good for your body. No, it's so unhealthy. And yet you're right. For the first, after my dad had passed away, they weren't sure exactly what

what had all happened there specifically they did know it was colon cancer but they didn't know and understand why it progressed the way that it did and so fast so he was diagnosed and passed away within three and a half months of diagnosis so it was aggressive so my dad was an incredible man he

He donated his body to science after so that they could test and see like what the fuck was going on. And so then I got this call from a team of Lynch syndrome specialists. And they just said, listen, like your dad had Lynch syndrome.

It's a genetically inherited mutation. And that means that... And they found that out because he had donated his body. That's right. So he was helping his lineage. He was helping his people. It's incredible. It was absolutely incredible. So that being said, the team of doctors had mentioned to myself and to my mom and my brother, it's up to your children, but...

They can be tested, you know, for this to see. And so I chose to get tested and obviously tested positive. And, you know, for the first couple years, kind of like how Karm Singh, you kind of like block it out because you don't really understand the magnitude and the ramifications of what that whole world brings. But as time goes by and I did the most research I could and my dad, even through his cancer process, he was so excited.

about every step of the way that it almost made losing him and death somewhat manageable because he explained like the next thing that's going to happen is I'm going to lose my eyesight or the next thing that's going to happen is this. So it was like he was preparing us. So I then took that further into my life to be more

proactive and as proactive as possible. And I go for like the whole menu, you guys like colonoscopy, endoscopy, mammograms. I go for, um, ovarian scans, uterine scrapings. Like I could go on and on the list, but I have to do this annually. So it gives me a baseline. You know, your timeline, you know, your timeline. Exactly. I was clear in October of 2023 so that you never have to say to yourself, well, gosh, I haven't done anything for five years. Yes. I

I have a very good friend of mine who has never, she's 56. She's never had a mammogram. Wow. I am doing everything I can as her friend to go. She goes, I just don't, I don't want to do it. I just don't want to know. I guess I'll die. And I'm like, uh, no, that is absolutely crazy.

You're stronger than you think you are. Even if you're diagnosed with something, you know, then there's things you can start doing right away. And there are oncologists out there that are so brilliant.

And you girls would probably agree, cancer treatments have changed completely since you, Carmelina, were going through your treatments. The type of chemo, immune therapy, even how they're focusing radiation has changed profoundly in the last 10 years. And a lot of people who are open to alternative therapy as well, like

I do a lot of prevention now in my life, but a lot of people are more open to doing like ozone therapies, which some doctors don't want you doing.

but you have to listen to your body what you want. I never tell someone, oh, this is, you should do this. My journey, what I feel I'm going to do. You just have to listen to you. You know your body best. That's right. So, you know, acupuncture, Reiki, massage therapy, meditation, all those things. How much do you think your mindset played into your wellness? Huge. Like, yeah.

I always say this, people don't understand it. Cancer was a gift. It's a crazy thing to say, but it's true. I know my cancer was caused by how I processed emotion, stress. My upbringing wasn't the easiest, but it made me who I am and

relationships in my life. So I dug deep before I got breast cancer, I was already on a path of healing my inner child traumas, we all have them. And that's what got me strong for my treatments. People are like, Oh, you just make it look so easy. It wasn't easy. It's because I was already on that path before I got breast cancer, I was

shedding garbage that I've been carrying for years. And I always say when people reach out to me and they do all the time, I go first thing forgiveness. You have any unwanted things in your life of not forgiving others like let go. So that's the first thing. So yes, Jan, mental health, forgiveness, well-being. That was my first step. So that's what got me through because I was already on that path of healing.

Any parting words for all the warrior women out there that are going through difficult times or that need to be proactive about their wellness? What are some of your final thoughts before we say goodbye to you? And I have to say, it's just been so inspiring and such a pleasure having you. But leave us with something that people can kind of hang their keys on their nipple on. Yeah.

One thing I can say, don't be afraid of the word cancer and reach out and support because a lot of people stay away. And that kind of hurt me. But I didn't take it personally. Reach out, be supportive. Don't be afraid.

Wow. Okay. Yeah. So many stigmas, right? My friend's got cancer, but I don't want to be around her because I'm afraid of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. With Karm, like exactly what she was saying there, like the mental health side of that, the whole process of if you are a supporter of someone who's going through cancer, if you're a warrior, you know, going through all the different stages of that, I mean, just

community, support, love, and the flowing forward day by day is a huge, huge component of everything.

There's one last thing that we've been keeping a total secret and we thought that we would share if we have a quick second. Yes, of course. With you. You're the first to know. We literally were just talking about this. We'll take one minute. And we were like, we are going to drop this on the Jan Arden podcast. Yeah, we are. So.

So, Carmen and I have been, of course, we're known as the Nipple Sisters. So, we have been working for over two years now on the most incredible startup company. We had a vision. We had an idea. And we have brought it all the way through. And we are about to launch our company called Skins Official. And so, Skins Official is...

Pretty much. There's so many things to come, but we just want to show you product one because

We're dropping it soon. We're getting all the tea. You're getting the first ins on the tea. Yeah, I want to know what it is. When you had originally asked about customizing nipples and how do you guys do it? So we realized that there was a gap between diagnosis and completion, meaning full completion, completing your areola and nipple complex.

Patients are blank for that time. And it takes anywhere from a year minimum, hey, Carmen, even two, three years that patients are completely blank. So we developed a product called Notorious NIPs. So you can put them on.

while you're waiting. So these are transparent nipple cards. Notorious NIPs. Wait, the names? The Real Skin Shady, Hypnotize, Juicy, and Big Papa. Oh, yeah. With nothing but a G thing. That. So we're dropping that. We wanted to drop it with you, Jen, because we love you. I love what you're on your page. I've always loved you.

You're amazing. What a great idea. So in the interim, when you're maybe still going through chemo or whatever, you can put on a fricking nipple and go sit on a topless beach or whatever you want to do. Yes, exactly. That is in, what a great idea. So they're transparent. So they actually can, uh, you can create a whole bunch of different colors when you

slide them across. They actually create different- Oh, come on. Yes. So we hand drew these. Yeah, these are our nipples that we hand drew. We hand drew them and then we printed them so that patients can visualize- What color, what, you know- How is this going to look for me? Yes. Well, congratulations on everything that you're doing to restore faith, to bring joy, to bring happiness. Be proactive, ladies, girls, be proactive.

Don't be afraid. Just get in there. Catch these things early because, you know, sometimes it's a lumpectomy. And, you know, a lot of times it's not even followed up with chemo. They'll choose just to do radiation. Every woman is going to have a different experience. But if you sit on your hands and wait, you know, I'm doing my mammograms every two years now. And it's funny. I felt like I hadn't been for a while. My doctor said, no, you're not till April. And I'm just like, okay. But, you know, my last one was...

relatively non-anything and I don't have a history in my family, but, um, you know, I don't love going, but I do it. And whenever I do it, I put it on social media. I'm going to get, and there's this whole thing about, you know, having a mammogram done before we say goodbye. I just wanted to bring this up. It's not that bad. No, I'm my God. It's way less, uh,

trouble than a hangover. So if you're willing to go and do it up and be hung over for two days afterwards, a mammogram is 10 minutes long.

It's uncomfortable. The machine goes down, but it needs to flatten your boob out. I feel sorry for people with little small boobs because I don't even know how they get them in there. My boob hurts. Yeah. So my boobs are coming in handy for mammograms. Anyway, Carmelina Bakari and Casey Rainey, I just thank you from the bottom of my heart on behalf of Sarah and myself, the Jan Arden podcast. Keep doing what you're doing. Congratulations on...

the new company. And we will have all the information folks on the podcast notes. So we'll see you again. You're welcome back anytime. Give us updates. Thanks girls. Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you, Sarah. Welcome back to the Jan Arden podcast and show. I'm back here with Sarah Burke.

And, yeah, you're still laughing. Shut up. Just as we were saying our goodbyes to the wonderful Nipple Sisters, I said, well, gosh, it would be really great to meet you guys sometime. And, you know, since you're here in Calgary, you know, let's go and have a coffee or something and blah, blah, blah.

And Carmelina just very candidly said, well, we've met before. Oh, she didn't say we've met. Well, I know, but listen, I'm trying to broach this in a very strategic yet dignified manner. Okay. What did she say? We made out. We were. We tongued.

We tongued at the Mercury, which was a bar on 17th Avenue in the, I'm going to say, late 80s, early 90s. So good. Well, obviously, I was drinking and obviously Carmelina was drinking. But just as a small example of the kind of cool woman about town that I was...

Apparently I was in the Mercury kissing Carmelina. It's always very interesting when life comes back to you of things that you have absolutely no memory of. Like I was a tad bit embarrassed, I have to say, for just a second or two. I'm like, I did what? And thank God I didn't hurt anybody's feelings. So I'm glad that it was a mutual exchange of, you know, just a couple of gals drinking. Yeah.

And you know what? She's pretty. She's very, very pretty. And she's doing amazing work. Her and Casey are so beautiful. And look where life has landed them. It's absolutely life-changing what they're doing for people. And I never really thought about my nipples, to be honest. I've not thought about them long and hard. And I think most women do whatever they can to save their breasts. And it's very much a part of our identities as women. And I think...

It's a big thing too. When, you know, trans people are transitioning, they don't want breasts. Anyway, when I was just researching, like just surface stuff about breast cancer before we started the recording, um,

There's actually a guide for self-examination that I'm going to post in the show notes just because half of this is awareness. They say in the shower is good, an arm up in the air. Yeah, anywhere you want to feel yourself up. Please feel yourself up if it means keeping tabs on what's going on with the girls. I have very fibrous breasts. Like I have dense, dense tissue. I feel like I have that too. And it's just very dense. So mine feel kind of lumpy and sinewy and bumpy and just...

all the time. I don't have these kind of gel packs where they're very smooth, smooth, smooth, and then suddenly you would find a pea-sized lump. And that's what they say to look for as well, is that these tumors are very consistent

in their shape much of the time. It's a pea sized lump, a hard lump, and it's not associated with pain a lot. You know, Carm talked about a pulsating thing and it wasn't painful. And a lot of women have breast pain. So you ladies out there that are having breast pain or menopause or menstrual breast pains, I don't want you to like freak out. Those things are very common too, but like anything else, if it's persistent,

Better just to go for peace of mind because they're probably just going to say, yes, that's pretty normal. But I experienced breast pain as well, more in my left breast than in my right breast. I'm not going to lie. I'm going to be relieved when I get my mammogram in April. I talked to my doctor. I said, should I do it earlier? And he goes, no.

You know, your last scan was really great. I don't see that there's going to be any changes in that 16 months. But I did check in. Just be proactive. Worrying is a necessary part of human life. We're never going to be without worry. And Sarah and I briefly touched on the top of the show, just feeling down, anxious.

feeling helpless and seeing anyone in terror, seeing anyone killed, seeing people kidnapped, seeing elderly people, all of it. It's just, it's terrifying. We cannot have a platform like this and not acknowledge what's gone on and how heavy the hearts of so many are right now. I've never felt like I needed to take a break from social media as much as I have in the last two days. I feel really...

super weird. And you see this necklace I'm wearing? I'm wearing a hamsa. For anyone who doesn't know, it's a hand. What's so interesting, I was thinking about this this morning.

It stands for like the number five and it traces back to like the Mesopotamian times. And it's a symbol for Islam as well as a symbol for Judaism. I've seen people in Greece wearing this as well. And it's supposed to be like protection against evil. And it's in both religions. Yeah. So in Islamic religion, it's the hand of Fatima. In Judaism, it's the hand of Miriam. It means the same thing, but it's traced to two religions.

different women in protection. I just found that so interesting as we're navigating what's going on. And, you know, as someone who is Jewish, I'm terrified. What I learned in the last two days is that anti-Semitism is everywhere and I don't know what to say about it. And I still feel for the people of Palestine and two things can be true at the same time. That's what I'm going to say. I will echo that sentiment. I agree.

I'm sick about the anger and the hatred. You know, you're talking about oppression. You're talking about land. It's so complicated. Terrorism is wrong. It is abhorrent. It is evil. It is unacceptable. And it can never be accepted as a normal part of human life.

That's it. You can come after me if you want. I have nothing but sadness in my heart. I know. Me too. And the conversation we just had really just lifted my spirits with those ladies and the good that they're doing. Yeah. You know, I was listening to Christiane Amanpour speak. You know, she's been a war correspondent predominantly for CNN for 30 years. She has seen it all. She spent a great deal of her time in Bosnia, Serbia, the atrocities that were happening there.

And she said that she had a real epiphany trying to look for the human stories and the humanness of war because she could be so mired down by the horror, the hatred. And when she started really learning how to report on war on both sides, so whatever the world perceived as who was wrong and who was right, so whatever that was, which was always...

Always complicated. I don't know what else to say. But she said to tell these human stories of the people, the collateral damage of people, the children, the women, the elderly, the dogs, the cats, the birds, the animals, the horses, the livestock, things that are obliterated in its wake because the political nature of countries fighting

overtakes the humanitarian part of society.

us living our lives on this planet. It's, it's so mired in so much political crap that's been dragged forward. My God, I just watched the movie Golda with Helen Mirren about the, the war that in Israel that took place 50, 50 years ago. Anwar Sadat and the Egyptians and the, I was watching the movie and I'm like, I can't even follow this movie because like, I don't know what they're fighting about. Is it this strip of land? Is it that? Is it

I'm just blathering on at the end of the day, my hearts go out to every single innocent person that has nothing to do with this, whose lives are upended for the rest of time, generations of this horrible crap. Um, hug your family. Yeah. Be grateful for what you have. I'm so grateful to be living in this country, despite whatever problems we may encounter, whatever political strife, whatever divisiveness we encounter, um,

We live next door to a very good partner in the United States. Whatever our problems have been or continue to be, you know, whether it's bickering over, you know, trees or cars or water or oil or the solution is never to attack each other. Yeah. We have a very good neighbor and we are good neighbors to them. And read and learn. Read and learn. And please understand that.

Hamas is not the same thing as Palestine. Those are two different things. And I don't know anything about anything. But what I do know is that killing people is wrong. This is the Jan Arden podcast and show. I'm here with the wonderful Sarah Burke.

Caitlin Green, if you've been wondering where she is, she's had a whole bunch of stuff come up. We miss her terribly. She will be back. Young Will got a little sick and she had to pick him up from daycare. The star of daycare had to be picked up. Caitlin, as you know, has just, you know, in the last few months gone back to work full time. So she's got a lot on her plate, but she is going to be back. She's here. She's here in spirit and she's guiding us the whole time. She's really bossy with me and Sarah. She's always telling us what to do.

This is not true. That's not true. Anyway, thank you for subscribing. Thank you for listening. Thank you for participating. We always welcome your comments. Be nice on here. Be fair to us. And we're not political people. We're doing our best. We're human beings and we're doing our best. So, you know, take it easy on us, please.

You have been listening to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. Sarah Burke, as always, has been here. Caitlin Green will be back next week. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. Toodaloo. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.