Bill Simmons: The Yacht Rock Killer
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This is Comedy Bang Bang, the podcast, the promo. And in 30 seconds, I'm going to tell you why you should check out the show. I, the host, Scott Aukerman, have a lighthearted conversation with famous celebrities like Jon Hamm, Alison Williams, Phoebe Bridgers, Bob Odenkirk, just to name a few.

Things go a little off the rails when different eccentric characters drop by to be interviewed as well. Each week is a blend of conversations and character work from your favorite comedians, as well as some new hilarious voices. Comedy Bang Bang, the podcast. Listen every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts. But I'm thinking, what could we arguably, could you believe that Billy Hicks from St. Elmo's Fire played the sax solo in? Hey, everybody. Welcome to Literally with me. Um...

Bill Simmons is here. He and I haven't spoken, I don't think, in years. And I love him. I love his podcast, Bill Simmons' podcast, The Real Watchables, The Ringer podcasts. I loved him when he worked for Grantland. Just a great mind, really funny, loves music, knows movies, makes great documentaries, did the...

The documentary on Vince McMahon, which is insane. And super excited about his Yacht Rock, the documentary. Yes. On Bill's Music Box series that he does for HBO, which is coming out. So we always have a really good talk. Let's get at it. Congrats on the Dodgers. Congrats on Dalton Connect. Yeah, the Dodgers was...

Just seeing this two uniforms on the field makes you feel like it's the World Series. Because I was at the 77 Dodgers, Yankees, and the 81. Yeah.

And then to win in Yankee Stadium was beyond belief. Beyond belief. This hat was given to me on the pitching mound at Yankee Stadium. It felt like it rejuvenated baseball to when we were kids. Didn't it? Like all of America cared. There were generations of fans. It was really hard to get tickets for everything. And there were big stars. And it was like what we grew up with. With Reggie Jackson going against Garvey and all that shit.

It's exactly right. Like, I can't get a ticket. Can you give me a ticket? Like, when was the last time you heard that about baseball? I felt like you were a winner. You were on TV multiple times. It was great for you. You had to constantly, you couldn't pick your nose. You had to make sure you had mustard on the side of your mouth. Oh, 100%. You could not. I didn't know.

What to do? Because I felt exactly the same thing. I felt like at any point it reminded me I was blessed to know Cary Grant a little bit. And the only piece of advice he ever gave me was never eat a hot dog in public because there'll be a picture of you with a hot dog in your mouth.

And I was like, man, Cary Grant would not like this on-air frequency. That was his only piece of advice was don't eat a hot dog? Yes. Isn't that insane? I don't know what prompted that advice, but that was the advice. That has to go in one of your seven books by the time you're... I don't know how many books you're up to. I'm just starting the third one, actually. But yes, I feel like that...

I have a one-man show I do sometimes, and it's definitely in that, but I don't know if it's in one of the books. But now it's in this podcast with you. It's in the Bill Simmons podcast. That's where we did it. We haven't talked. So Andrew McCarthy does that doc. Yeah. Get some momentum going. Yes.

And now it's like this, like, I don't want to be teased with the St. Elmo's fire comeback. Like I, if it's going to happen, I really want it. I want it to happen. I want it to be the 35th anniversary of Georgetown or whatever, whatever year and 45th, whatever it is. Keep pitching stories. Keep pitching. Keep pitching. What else do you want? Come on. Let's go back to campus. Okay. It's a reunion. For some reason, everyone decides to go back and, and shit goes down. Like this isn't hard. Let's go. I,

I don't think it's that hard either. But give me one of your shit goes down moments. Got any? As you know, Billy Hicks was my favorite Son of Almost Fire character and I think one of the crucial characters of the 80s. I think it's really important to figure out what happened to his career after 85. Like,

Did he become a guy? Was it like him and Kenny G and a couple others? Like he was one of the great sax players. Was there a backlash to his success that he ended up getting a drug problem? Like what happened to him? Did he arrive at New York at exactly the wrong moment culturally where sax solos were removed from every single hit song? There's also that. I would say the sax was red hot in the mid 80s.

And I had high hopes for him. He had the look, he had the hair. I don't know. Kenny G tapped into something. There was also the guy who used to go on Letterman. Oh, David Sanborn? David Sanborn. Maybe Billy Hicks. I was thinking about what are the most famous sax solos. This would be a great thing. This gets us right into Yacht Rock, which I'm obsessed with. What are the most famous 80s sax solos? I mean, there's a lot in Steely Dan.

There's, I mean, there's Billy Ocean's Caribbean Queen. Well, did Billy Hicks play that? Was he a session man? Well, Springsteen, I would say the big man was probably, had probably more prominent replayed sax solos than anybody, right? Because he's in some of the biggest Springsteen songs ever. 100%. But I'm thinking, what could we, arguably, could you believe that Billy Hicks from St. Elmo's Fire played the sax solo in Springsteen?

So you'd have to go. His career probably hits like 88, 89 range. Yeah. Weird time for music because alternatives coming in, but there's still some pop. That's what I'm saying. He might have arrived too late for the sax surgeons. Maybe he like meets Sade in a bar and maybe does some Sade work and...

Ends up, Keith Sweat brings him in and now he's in like that kind of horny, sexy R&B stage that we had. Did he play the sax on Smooth Operator? Right. Oh, man. Right. That's it.

The R&B community embraces Billy Hicks and he takes off. Then there's a backlash like, why Billy Hicks? Why can't it be other people? And then he has a drug problem again and then recovers. Well, listen, we hired our writer this week, actually yesterday. And so it's definitely on the move and we're having exactly those conversations and it's so fun. I actually watched it

start to finish the other day. I hadn't seen it in, God, I don't know, 25 years. I don't even know how long ago. And it just blew my mind and it made me realize we could really have something special if we do this right. And we will. We will for sure. But you know what's interesting about it? We talked about this when we did the pod. There's only a couple movies that pulled off the ensemble, everybody's buddy's

But yet there's some weird shit going on. Like the big show did it a few years before, which I'm sure inspired Cinemaspire, but most of the time it doesn't work. I know. And it is amazing because you cared about every character. Every character had an arc that was equally interesting.

Because usually there's like, oh, I care about this one, but not about that one. Why do you think that is? And you're right about Big Chill. I'm trying to like literally break it down to the math to make sure we get the equation right. Well, it hit two things. You had the people right out of college that year when you kind of don't, either you really know what's going on with your life or you have no idea what's going on in your life, right? So there's been a couple movies over the years that have really nailed that correctly. Right. So you have that.

And then what happens if your life after college isn't as fun as your life in college, which is the Billy Hicks conundrum. Right. But I think the reason it worked is each character was somebody you probably knew in some form.

Right. Like Jules, everybody knew Jules. Everybody had a Jules in their life who was a hot mess basically. And it's like, this could go any direction. You just going down the line, you knew all those people. Like Alec was the guy who seemed cool in college, but was definitely going to turn into an absolute prick, you know, and you go on down and it's just a really rare movie. But that there's a couple of those that you were in that I do feel like,

kind of have relatable themes now. I feel like my daughter is 19. If she watched About Last Night, that's a movie that even now, I think some of the themes are still there. You have the tight friends, the best friends, the best friends trying to sabotage a relationship, people moving in too fast, speeding up too much for one person. I think that's why some of those 80s movies hold, even Breakfast Club, which you weren't in, but Breakfast Club is still probably the best

high school movie of all the high school movies. I think it's the best quote. I think it's the best movie of the eighties of all those Brad pack movies. I really, really do. I don't know why you weren't in it. You think kind of squeezed you in somewhere? I auditioned for it. And, uh, for, for the part that went to Judd Nelson, which was the best part, obviously. And, and, you know, it's funny when you look back, um,

John Hughes, he was not buying what I was selling. I mean, there are a lot of John Hughes movies. I'm not in any of them. But yet, I don't know what part would have been the perfect Rob Lowe part. Because I don't think you as Bender would have been... Judd was like... He was so amazing. There was a darkness to him that I think... I don't know in 1984, would you have been able to pull off how dark that character was? Probably not. And then nobody wants to play like the...

the Michael Schofling, whatever, pardon,

Pretty in Pink or Sixteen Candles. I mean... Well, you could have done the Sixteen Candles part. Yeah. That's like basically a looks part. But at that point, you're moving on. You're doing Youngblood and Oxford Blues. You have all kinds of shit going on. You're playing hockey. You're rowing. You have to show off your sports stuff. Which by... Because this came up in my research. Did you list the greatest sports movies of all time and have Youngblood come in at 57? That made me laugh out loud. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I did a list that I never finished and I did it out of order because ESPN was ranking stuff. So I did this like 05. I was making fun of ESPN basically. That's amazing. And I started writing columns about the top 100, but it was completely out of order.

And Youngblood is, there just hasn't been that many good hockey movies. Youngblood, even now, 40 years later, I think would be considered like one of the four best hockey movies because there's no hockey movies. Yeah, and there's none. The best one for me is Slapshot by far. Yeah, no question. And it's not even close, right? Not even close. We just did it on the rewatchables and we were like, it's amazing this movie is 50 years old and it's still, there's a 100% chance this is still the best hockey movie and nobody would argue. I also think it's one of Paul Newman's best roles ever.

Totally. Totally. We talked about that too. It's like how many guys, what made him special, what made Burt Reynolds special in Longest Yard is you have these A-plus listers that were these completely believable sports movie heroes.

It's like one of the hardest things to pull off, right? You really felt like he was Reg Dunlap, the hockey player. So, because we've seen it go all kinds of ways. Oh, yeah. When the actors try to be the sports movie heroes. Sometimes it goes well, sometimes it doesn't. What's the worst thing

Give me an example of an A-plusser being a sports hero that you weren't buying. It's funny because I think most people are smart enough not to cast. Yes. You know, like Costner had an unbelievable run. Oh. But yet...

So like in For Love of the Game, John C. Reilly is the catcher who's a great actor that everybody loves. And he's clearly had never played baseball before. So you got to... I'm always going to notice that stuff. I'm always going to notice. You did a good job in Youngblood because I remember you told me you kind of learned how to skate at a high level in like seven weeks or something. Yeah, that's right. But it was believable. And it actually looked like you were a hockey player. Swayze really looked like a hockey player. Like he... You could just tell like he had some sort of

hockey background but he's a he was a great athlete period yeah for sure yeah the tough ones are it's usually not sports movies as much as sports scenes in a movie so it'd be like Tom Cruise oh my god Tom Cruise having a catch with his son in War of the Worlds and you're like oh my god have you ever played catch or how about how about in um A Few Good Men

Right, the softball scenes. The softball scene, it's painful. Crew's still going, by the way. Going. Doing Mission Impossible press. Like, this is your generation. He's still Ethan Hunt. It's unbelievable. I know, and you still buy it, and you still want it, and he's great at it. I mean, I am down. I just saw the new Mission Impossible trailer. I'm like, oh, yeah, let's go. If you could reboot any part you've ever played...

For 2025, what part would it be? Oh, boy. It sounds like it would be Billy Hicks. Well, it looks like it's going to be. I mean...

I don't know. I mean, it's so hard to say. I loved my little comedy, The Grinder. I would play the Grinder character for—I'd like to bring him back for something. Your West Wing guy would be interesting in the current political climate. One under—yeah. All of those characters would be interesting in the current political climate. Oh, well, the West Wing, when you watch it now, it almost seems like a quaint—

It's like, aw, bless their little hearts. Yeah. What's going on? These politics, these dreamers. Look at these dreamers. Look at these bright-eyed dreamers that mean well. Trying to make the world better. They just wake up and they want to reach across the aisle and just... So insane. Heavy piano music and slow motion cuts and montages. Yeah. Oh, those were the days. Those were the days. Walking around for no reason through the hallways.

Past the actual door, you're eventually going to walk in. Right. In the actual shot because- Sorkin loved those walk-in talks, man. He really like, he perfected it. He did. He loved those things. Tell me about the Yacht Rock documentary. You know, so I'm obsessed with Yacht Rock. I remember the first time I'd ever heard the phrase Yacht Rock. Yeah. Rashida Jones-

Quincy's God bless rest in peace, Quincy, the best daughter. And so she knows from music and, and she goes, Oh my God, you're like just a yacht rock guy then aren't you? And I said, what does that mean? And she told me what it means. I didn't real, I don't, is the yacht rock saying like Brat Pack to yacht rockers? Like if you say to Michael McDonald,

Yacht Rock. Is that like saying Brat Pack to Andrew McCarthy, where they kind of go, oh, I think I'm a little more than that? Well, some of them have leaned into it. Others have not, which we tie, which is a piece of the doc. So the thing with Yacht Rock is the reason we wanted to do the documentary, we did it for the Music Box series on HBO. It's one of only two times ever with music

that something became a genre after it was dead. Nobody knew it was a genre as it was happening.

And it's basically from 1976 to 1985. We kind of think like the Sweet Freedom video from Running Scared is probably like the official end of Yacht Rock when those guys just weren't cool. I mean, there's a ton of cocaine that probably wiped out artists or changed whatever their arcs were during that era too. But it's like a nine-year run. And what we laid into was like, it starts with like the Steely Dan sound and the

But in LA, these guys are like amazing musicians, right? You can make a case for them as yacht rockers, but they're probably like levitating above it. But all the people that they're playing with

became a lot of the stewards of what the Yacht Rock sound would be, like people on Toto and the Doobie Brothers, all these different places. So what happened was that music suddenly becomes uncool anymore when MTV starts. You don't want to see any of those guys in a video, right? It's just over immediately. You want to see Cyndi Lauper and Prince and Michael Jackson. You don't want to see Christopher Cross. So music dies. It becomes kind of a punching bag thing.

Then in the early '90s, hip-hop starts sampling it and brings it back. It's becoming cool again, but not really. Then what really changed it, what we dive into in the doc was this early web series called Yacht Rock in 2005, I think.

And it's a comedy series where it's like these LA comedy actors are playing Kenny Loggins and McDonald. And they're just having these fights. And it's just a parody of all of it. And somehow that started it. And then it was just these little pieces. I think the Sirius channel was probably one of the biggest pieces of it, right? When that came out. They lean into it. Spotify playlists. And then...

What ends up happening is this huge argument about what's Yacht Rock and what's not Yacht Rock, which I think really has fueled it more than anything. Which I could do five hours on. Yeah, in serious, I love the Yacht Rock channel, but there's times... I've even done Instagram videos where it's like, Chicago's not Yacht Rock. Get it the fuck off the Yacht Rock channel. It's not. There's soft rock from the...

early, basically like 1970 through 76. It's like bread, Chicago, Susan Crofts. None of them are yacht rock. Get them out. Right. There's a debate about the Eagles. There's a debate about Hall & Oates. People kind of go back and forth on that. I don't know if we've ever solved it, but you kind of know it. I always feel like

It's something you would play on a yacht as you're trying to get laid is a good way to start, right? You're playing like minute by minute on a yacht at 10 o'clock at night, you know, off the coast of Malibu. Yes. That's where you want to go. I also think there's a lot of one-hit wonders in Yacht Rock. Oh, my God. Right? And some creepy ones, too. Oh, dude. How about Into the Night? Into the Night.

Into the Night, the creepiest music video of all time. Of all. The creepiest lyrics ever. I urge you, you can pause this podcast with my full authority.

Yeah. And look up the video and listen to the lyrics for Into the Night, which, by the way, I always loved the song. And then all of a sudden, I was like, what the living hell? I think the guy's name was Benny Mardonis. Benny Mardonis. In the video, he's just outside our window trying to get to her. And then they fly away on a fucking magic carpet at the end. Yeah. It's rough. Unfortunately for us, it is Yacht Rock, and it should be on any Yacht Rock playlist because...

You know, so the state, I mean, the Doobie Brothers are the princes of yacht rock and the kings of yacht rock, and they get a lot of play. The big three are them and Kenny Loggins and Christopher Cross, who we all have in there, and then Toto. You know it when you see it. It's not hard. It's Boz Skaggs. Boz Skaggs is another one. Yeah, no. Yeah, because you're right. It's easy. You could slip into the California sounds. Like, the Eagles are not on it. They're California rock, which is not yacht rock, although they sound...

The same, right? But the thing with the Eagles is, unfortunately and unfortunately, they have a couple of yacht rock songs that have to be addressed. Like, One of These Nights is a yacht rock song. It just is. I don't consider them a yacht rock band.

But if you create a Yacht Rock song, I've got to put it on my playlist. And that's a Yacht Rock song. I think In the City is more of a Yacht Rock song. That's another one. They kind of quietly have like four Yacht Rock songs. No, you're right. It's the same thing. It's like, I'm sorry, Donald Fagan. I know you hate Yacht Rock, but you had a couple that have to go on my playlist. Oh, 100%. They have to. They have to go on. And you're right. They're the...

They're the Matthew Modine of the Brat Pack. There's a couple. We talked about the one-hit-wonners. I'm looking at my giant. Mickey Rourke. They're the Mickey Rourke of the Brat Pack. Well, I'm looking at my giant Yacht Rock playlist. There's a couple great. Hit me with some that we can vote on right now. Oh, well, I mean, book in glass, Brandy, you're a fine girl. That's like just. It's too early. It's a no-brainer.

But it's too early. I think it's too early in the oeuvre. I think it's like 76, so I squeezed it in. But Whenever I Call You Friend by Kenny Loggins and Stevie Nicks. Come on. The Ultimate Yacht Rock Duet. Yeah. Every Kind of People by Robert Palmer has to be in. 100%. Yes, 100%. And then Bobby Caldwell.

Who is white, which I don't think a lot of people realize. You just wouldn't know that he's white, but he 100% is. And he has that one...

What's his song? What You Won't Do For Love by Bobby Caldwell. Oh, oh. Yes. Maybe Billy Hicks played the... Yeah, so he could have been in the background for Bobby Caldwell. He got two notes in a huge hit. What's interesting is I think there's some Yacht Rock songs. Let me ask you this. Jennifer Warren's Right Time of the Night. Oh.

I would allow it. Would allow it, right? Where do you go like... So Michael Jackson, obviously not Yacht Rock. But... Human nature is very Yacht Rocky. Human nature, it gets an exclusion. It gets in. The judges let it in. There's some basic themes. It's usually a guy who has either been decimated by his ex-girlfriend or is about to be decimated or he's trying to get her back. Yes. That's all Yacht Rock staples. It's...

It's basically your character in About Last Night in the last 20 minutes before he finally is able to get back with Demi Moore in the softball field. But when he's standing outside in the rain, he's just listening to Yacht Rock all day. Yeah. I wonder what on the soundtrack of About Last Night, there's...

There's yacht rock. There's a Bob Seger song, Living Inside My Love or some shit like that. Yeah, see, that's soft rock to me. I agree. Well, there's that one where it's like, you had a couple of happy montage songs in about last night. Yeah, oh, so far, so good. So, I don't feel like that's yacht rock either. No, it's not. But that would have been a great yacht rock spot. And there's no yacht rock in Footloose. No. There's a lot of missed opportunities. Here, how about we might have just discovered something?

There are no Yacht Rock songs in... Well, that's not true because I think I'm Alright from Caddyshack is a Yacht Rock song. Anything with Loggins from 77 on is just an automatic. I think him and McDonald's, automatic, depending on... You know, McDonald has the most and McDonald is the best and that's why he's kind of the face of Yacht Rock in a lot of ways. But, you know, even when we did the doc, like...

The old guard of Doobie Brothers, like they hate Yacht Rock. No way. Yeah, like Tommy Johnston, you know, didn't want to be in the doc. Like not only didn't want to be the doc, but they don't want to be shown in the doc. So he's the Judd Nelson.

of the Brat Pack documentary. Well, but they, Judd Nelson, somebody else wasn't in it either though, right? Weren't two people not in it? I think everybody was in it, but Judd. The Yacht Rock, what is Yacht Rock, what isn't? And Brat Pack, what is Brat Pack, what isn't? It's kind of the same argument because I would argue Tom Cruise kind of should be in the Brat Pack. $100.

But nobody would ever say he's in the Brat Pack, but he grew up with all you guys. You were all going for the same parts. Like, how is he not in the Brat Pack? And Sean Penn. Right. Taps? Tim Hutton? Tim Hutton's in the documentary. So does that mean that Taps isn't in the Brat Pack world? And if Taps is in it, what about it's Tom Cruise's first movie? And what about Sean?

Sean did all those. Yeah, for sure. I think so too. They're Brat Pack adjacent or Yacht Rock adjacent. If you're doing your Brat Pack tree, it's Breakfast Club and St. Elmo's Fire. And I think About Last Night would be the top of the tree. And then everything kind of trickles down. Here's one for you. What? Is The Outsiders a Brat Pack movie?

No, but it's like college basketball to the NBA. Yes. It's setting the stage for it. And maybe about last night might not be in there because then wisdom, you know, there are all these branches, but I guess it really starts with Breakfast Club and St. Elmo's Fire, the two. But like, is Swayze not Brat Pack? That's the thing is he's never mentioned as being in the Brat Pack and he's in all of them.

And I don't think Swayze, I would not put Swayze in the Brat Pack. Because he was older than you guys. Because he was older. Yeah. And then Cruise, really outsiders. Then Risky Business is not considered a Brat Pack movie. And not, it isn't. I mean, he never really did. He did, here's the thing. I think he's in the Brat Pack, but he didn't do a Brat Pack movie. How about that? Does that make, that makes no sense. Right. But it's really, it's you, it's Emilio. Demi. It's McCarthy, Demi Moore.

Ally Sheedy, Molly Ringwald. I think you almost have to work backwards and be like, who has to be in? And then when you're debating it, maybe that's not how it works as much. But the only thing I didn't understand about that documentary, which I enjoyed watching, was he's not on the cover, McCarthy.

That piece that was so dramatic. Yeah, he's not. Oh, that's right. He wasn't in it. It's you and Emilio Estevez and Judd Nelson. It's like, you're not even, why are you so upset about this? You're not even on the cover of the magazine. Maybe you've just, maybe that is the reason. Oh, he felt like he was slighted. Maybe that is the reason. That might have been it.

But it was funny, like he's going through and then he's like seeing somebody, he goes to see you and you're just like, my life's great. Yeah, it's fine. It was a magazine article 40 years ago. Yeah, whatever. That's kind of my attitude about it. I mean, I, listen, the fact that we're sitting here talking about it,

Like Yacht Rock. Like when I, when I got the, when I saw the promo for your documentary and there's a, there's a glimmer of, of the notion that some of the guys think Yacht Rock isn't cool. I thought I literally had the epiphany of, oh my God, it's just like the Brat Pack. There are some people in it that don't realize how beloved it is. It's the same exact thing.

for whatever reason, I always knew, like, I get it. If you're a highfalutin studio musician in LA, you think, you would think amongst your swell set and also maybe, you know, snobby Rolling Stone journalist, Yacht Rock has looked down upon a little bit. I get it. But the world loves it. And it's the same with the Brat Pack. It's exactly the same.

This is good. I like where we're going here because the other parallel, I would say, the music kept being played. Yes. People kept liking it and it never died and it just kept going. Then eventually, especially once some of the people were sampling some of the songs in the 90s and got a second wave, you guys all had that with cable.

Yes. And the early VHS video, those were some of the first movies that a teenager could own. Yeah, because I think I saw all three of the movies we mentioned in the theater. But what really took off was HBO and TNT and the fact that they were just on all the time. And then

networks are showing these things over and over again because people are watching them. It's not like they're just throwing shit against the wall. We just did the replacements on the rewatchables, which didn't even do well when it came out. It's a great one, though. It's been on TNT for 20 straight years. So it's like at some point, people like this movie and you just have to accept it and that's a perfect movie for us to do. So same thing with Yacht Rock where the music just kind of

has a tale and it feels like it all makes sense collectively. And then in the mid-2000s,

It belatedly takes off as this whole genre that nobody knew. So the only other time this really happened was jazz. Jazz was the same thing? They didn't know what they were making? People were making albums, but nobody was like, hey, this is jazz. It took a while for people to go like, hey, that's what's called all that music jazz. And that's what it is going forward. Yacht rock, nobody said the words yacht rock until the mid 2000s. So this is a full 20 years after the music has come and gone.

And now, you know, we're in 2000, end of 2024, there's a documentary. There's all these different yacht rock, like, concerts that are out. McDonald's and Loggins and Christopher Cross travel together. I saw them. I saw Kenny, I saw Kenny, um,

A month ago, he was, how about this? Al Stewart. Right. You're the cat. Come on, man. Classic out rock. So good. Yeah. And Al Stewart, Mike, and Kenny played. And Kenny in particular has not lost a step at all. Incredible performer. He hasn't transposed his songs to lower keys yet.

Do you know what I mean? It sounds exact. All those high notes. Oh, okay. I got one for you about yacht rock. I got one for you. Really good. And it comes up because I just saw their farewell concert.

And I had heard it was one of the best concerts I would ever see. They were also the first concert I did see. And they were insane. ELO. Interesting. So what's your Yacht Rock ELO song? How about Strange Magic? Does that fit the 76 to 85 timeframe? It does, right? Yeah, I think it's 76. Yeah, that's a good one. Strange Magic, ELO? I think we can squeeze it in. I think we squeezed them in. ♪

It's also funny, some people that just randomly had Yacht Rock songs that we don't think are Yacht Rock people. But I feel like if the song sounds like Yacht Rock... It's Yacht Rock. Magic by Olivia Newton-John. You wouldn't think of Olivia Newton-John as a Yacht Rocker. But it is. But it means. But Magic. But if you listen to Magic, it's a Yacht Rock song. For sure. A secret Yacht Rock guy not mentioned ever, James Ingram. Oh, he's very Yachty though. Just once...

Um, baby come to me with Patty Ingram. What's more yacht Rocky than that? There's nothing a little stocky, which fits the rock parameters. Yeah. Baby come to me. Oh, how about this? You're going to have to call the police. How about Billy ocean? You get into my car, get in the backseat, baby. Like if it wasn't weird enough. Hey, you, Hey, literally you unknown person. Yeah. Get into my car, get into the backseat.

They just went for it. They definitely went for it. Then there's some Magnet and Steel, some songs that became like Boogie Nights kind of immortalized Magnet and Steel, but it's still a Yacht Rock song.

So some directors have leaned into it. But then, you know, what happened in the 90s, like when people are sampling Michael McDonald, he was not cool anymore. He was like your dads and your uncles listened to that era of the Doobie Brothers. There was nothing cool about them at all. There was a nostalgic bent because they were on What's Happening That Time and things like that. But they weren't, they had no mojo and it got single-handedly brought back in the 90s. Yeah, like I have no shame about being like a Yacht Rock dude. I mean, at all. I love it.

So much. So this is all that part of our doc is about. This is the, this comes from LA and you're growing up in LA as this is happening. It's happening right there. It's all over the radio. It's like I lived on point doom and there were, I remember, well, how about the song gold driving, driving, driving over Canaan? Well, that's Canaan road.

It empties right in front of my house. Yeah. So people were driving over Canaan, turning music into gold. And that gold was Yacht Rock gold.

Yeah, it's basically songs. You're either on a yacht or you're just driving down the PCH with no traffic and the top's down. Yeah. And you're like, this is great, man. I'm just having, this is what a great drive. I can't believe this exists in America. Well, here's the other thing. It's also, although there are so many great black artists involved in it, James Ingram, for example, it might be the whitest music ever made.

Yeah, so Questlove, who's in our doc, has done a nice job of trying to change the narrative with that because... Oh, good. He's great. What does he have to say? Yeah, and he's awesome in the doc, but his case is there's actually some other ones that have been kind of overlooked, some one-off songs. Oh, I got some. How about some Al Jarreau? Al Jarreau is the Yacht Rock guy. The Pointer Sisters' Slow Hand is the Yacht Rock song. Oh, Slow Hand. So you almost have to recalibrate because I think...

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. People in their head just thinks Yacht Rock are these solo 38-year-old white guys just cranking out songs about how they can't believe they... McDonald's was the key to this, right? All the best Michael McDonald songs are about I was completely betrayed by somebody I loved. It's like,

What a fool believes he is the fool. Minute by minute. I got to try. It's all... I had him on a podcast once. I was like, was it one girl that just like completely destroyed you and obliterated your soul? Or was it multiple women? What did he say? He's basically like, that's probably one, but I also don't really remember a lot. I don't really remember. I don't really remember.

I mean, that's the other thing is he doesn't, he both has a good memory and then a terrible memory because all these guys are partying really hard. Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. So he's like, yeah, I don't really remember 1984. What a fool believes those lyrics are unbelievably brilliant. They're like,

Because that song is so in people's minds, they feel like they've heard it a thousand times, but I'll bet you people have never really listened to those lyrics. That's the other thing about Yacht Rock. These songs were some of the, literally the biggest songs of the year. Songs that won Grammys, minute by minute won Grammy. Like Christopher Cross won like four Grammys. Toto crushed at the Grammys. Toto crushed at the Grammys to the point where

People got pissed about it. Like there was a Grammys backlash. They were like, who the fuck are these guys? I got one for you. There was a minute in the 80s where I was definitely doing too much Bolivian marching powder and just being a fucking lunatic. And also coming at the time in a young...

actor's career where they're too old to play the roles they've been playing, but they're too young to play the roles that will last you the rest of your life, which are really the great ones. And so you're kind of like, and you can kind of feel it. And I love music so much as evidenced by this talk and all of that, that I got it into my head that maybe I should think more about music and I cut a demo with Toto. Wow.

This is one of the reasons you're the world's most interesting man. You're parting with the Showtime Lakers as they were winning titles during the Magic Johnson era. Who weren't you involved with in LA in the 80s? Probably nobody because I also took having fun very seriously.

Wait, I can't remember if we talked about this. So you live in Malibu, but then where are you living in like from like year by year, 82 on? Where are you in like 1982? What part of LA? Pointe Dume, Malibu. All right. So even like 85, you're still Pointe Dume? Still in Pointe Dume. I don't move out. Because that's not close to LA, just for the people listening who don't know LA. That's a long ass drive from Hollywood. Yes. And I was still at a...

Well, that's why Warren Beatty was able to get my girlfriend to cheat on me with him because I refused to come to Warren Beatty's pool party movie nights because I was out in Malibu and the drive was too far. So my girlfriend went and you can do the math. Wow. How many girls did he talk into maybe stepping aside from who they're with for one night? All of them. That's a long list, right? All of them.

If you had a heartbeat in Los Angeles and were at all interesting or pretty, Warren was on it. I read the biography about him that came out like seven, eight years ago, which was really good, actually. And there was a story about he was on movie location somewhere, and there's somebody that worked on the movie that wasn't attractive. Warren had sex with her anyway. And somebody said to Warren Beatty after that,

Yo, what's going on there? Why? And Warren Beatty said, because you never know. Oh my God, I love that so much. What an amazing, like, three words that just summarize the Warren Beatty's career. He always operated on the premise, you never know. That's one of those things where even though it's third hand, you know he said it. You're not afraid. He 100% said it. Do you know what I mean? There's some things you go, oh, 100% they said it. Because-

They should have said it if they didn't. You know what I mean? So who was in the 80s who was the single best looking woman? Who was the one that

Everybody was like that, almost like how we would feel about Michael Jordan as a basketball player in the 90s. Who levitated above everyone else? Oh my God, in the 80s. Because I remember talking to Magic, I hope I'm not talking out of school, but when I did TV with Magic asking him. Yeah, who did Magic say? Well, it was right during when Jane Kennedy was on NFL Today and he was just like, Jane Kennedy was like, that was it for like four years. Everybody was in love with Jane Kennedy. Yeah.

I'm trying, I mean, including me in Boston. I was also in love with Jane Kennedy. I mean, Diane Lane. Right. So yeah. And you're about the same age as Diane Lane. Yeah. And, and believe me on the outsiders, we were all, you know, obsessed with her and she wasn't giving any of us the time of day. Although I do think Matt Dillon might've made a run. Well, he definitely made a run. I don't know if he got, if he, you know, made it into the end zone, but, um,

They did three movies together. So I think at some point, maybe he wore her down, but I don't know. Charming guy, that Matt Dillon. Kind of on your corner. Oh, dude, Matt Dillon. Probably one of your rivals, right? Oh, Matt Dillon was the man. He was the first person I ever saw work it, work the movie star thing. He played the movie star card. He was the first person I saw of my age do it. And I was like, oh, I can do that. The thing with Diane Lane, by the way...

Like Child Actor, where it turned out great. Everybody always points to the Child Actors where it goes sideways or went badly. There's also a lot of success stories with Child Actors. She's one of the best ones. Jodie Foster. Right. The all-time best. The GOAT. She's truly the GOAT. Right. Two Oscars. Nastassja Kinski was, remember that moment? And she was on the cover of Time Magazine. Cat people. You made a movie with her. Yeah.

I did. That's a weird movie. That was one of the only Rob Lowe 80s movies I can't really co-sign. It's so... Because the book was too weird and they tried to make a movie about it and actually stay faithful to the book. And it's just like too crazy of a book. World According to Garp, I love that movie. Right. That's a good movie. And that movie's crazy, but not too crazy. Hotel New Hampshire, like the book's too crazy, but you had to do the part. Good people were in it. Well, everybody thought that was going to win Oscars. That was like, that was the big, and it came out the same weekend as Splash.

which was a really good movie. Yeah. I'll never forget it. And, uh, that was the end of that. Ah, that was the end of that. Did it bad last night too? Well, it did, right? Yeah, it did. And, and so well that there were, they, there was a sequel script that we were trying to do. And for whatever reason, it never got made back in the day. Not now, back in the day, day. That's, that's,

Yeah, St. Elmo's and About Last Night, I'm super proud of. Well, we talked about this on my pod and I was very proud of this take. Because people kind of think when Harry Met Sally kind of created the modern rom-com, which isn't a bad opinion because it was so emulated and copied basically. That's 1989. We go into the 90s and it's just all of a sudden the rom-coms start.

But about last night as a rom-com, and it's three years ahead of When Harry Met Sally, you get no credit at all. None. I think it's bullshit. Oh, believe me, when I saw in real time When Harry Met Sally, I'm like, oh, so they...

or completely inspired and kind of ripping off about last night. God bless him. 100%. There's like, if you go into the 70s and what's cool is, I don't know if you're a Tubi guy, you Tubi guy? Oh, Tubi's great. Tubi's like basically revived all these 70s and 80s movies. So there'll be movies like, I don't know if I ever saw, like the Goodbye Girl, which got nominated for Oscars. Great movie. That's a rom-com, but it still feels like very 70s era specific. Yes. Not,

You couldn't pretend you're one of the characters. It's just almost like a real movie that has romance. Yes, not a rom-com for sure. But yes, a rom-com. By the 90s, once the sons and daughters of When Harry Met Sally were kicking in, then we're just off. Now we have all the premises. Meg Ryan becomes the queen of rom-coms and we're just Sandra Bullock's in there and we're just off. And now what's interesting with Netflix and all the streamers

They discovered recently that rom-coms still work and work big, but I got to be honest, a lot of times they feel like Lifetime movies that they just cast with A-listers. And I don't even think that's a hot take. It's not even a hot take. They're algorithm-driven. By the way, my wife watches all of them, so I'm very familiar with them. Same. It's a lot of like...

So-and-so actress between the age of 46 and 52 just got divorced, and she's going to go to this location. And oh my God, there's a younger guy working at the hotel, and

They're in Italy and hey, there's some wide shots of they're in a vineyard. And it's just like, like, it's like the algorithm. People are like, what's going to happen when AI comes into Hollywood? I'm like, we're already here. Like, I don't know if you guys have seen the Netflix algorithm, rom-coms, horror movies, true crime. Like they're only making like four of the same types of movies, but the rom-coms, they're in every version of those though. Somebody told me the best time, if this made me laugh, they go, if you're, um, a

a woman 40 on, and you're thinking about getting out of your marriage, you definitely

should do it around Christmas. Yeah. Because you know that means a younger, sexier man, usually shredded, probably working class. Yeah. Is going to come into your life and sweep you off your feet like no other. Working class with a heart of gold. Yeah. Who just hasn't had the right breaks, really. And you're going to provide that access for him. And together... He's better than a construction worker, but he's...

basically a construction worker, but it's elevated up. He owns his own business. It's just starting out. He's trying to do everything himself. And the business is actually failing. It's actually, he doesn't want anybody to know, but it's failing. And you might write the check. You might. And that's going to be an issue for them. My wife has some divorced friends. None of them have gone on vacation by themselves to like a crazy location. I mean, I'm sure it happens. I've just never personally witnessed it.

Like, where's Janie? Oh, she went to Italy for two weeks. Just to find herself. Just splurge. Yeah, she's just going to taste some wine by herself. You're like, oh, so it's a girl's party? No, no, no, no, no. Just Janie. That's it. Just her. Or they'll go and not meet somebody. That's the other piece. Oh. You have the sad vacation where you just go for two weeks and nothing happens. They meet themselves. Right.

Come back, do some therapy about it. Yeah, they met themselves. Met themselves. Have you tapped into one of those like Netflix Christmas movies? Are you into that yet? You did, right? Like two years ago? Dude, it's Holiday in the Wild. I watched that. I remember that one. It's one of the biggest things on Netflix. And it's like, you know, and it's,

Kristen Davis from Sex and the City and Rob Lowe from The West Wing meet in Africa when she divorces her. Yeah. Right? Did you ever do a handsome serial killer type movie or no? No. I have not done. I mean, I did Bad Influence, which is a movie I really, really like with Chris Hansen. Oh, that movie's good. You don't have to sell Bad Influence to me. That movie's great. Yeah, it's a good one.

Yeah, go on Tubi right now and queue up Bad Influence. It's a good one. But no, I know the genre you're talking about, and I haven't done like the handsome stepfather, right? Like the Scott Peterson type character? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They ask me to do those all the time, and I'm always like, nah. You're the stepfather, and then mom dies, and you just bought a boat, but the boat's like perfectly clean with chemicals, but you don't know what happened. Yeah.

Playing Yacht Rock. Did we? Yacht Rock on the boat. Yacht Rock Killer. That's a good way to pull it around. By the way, I might just figure out how to do Yacht Rock Killer because that is a... By the way, not only is it the title of this particular episode of the podcast now, for sure, but...

I would watch the shit out of Yacht Rock Killer. Well, but this is the era we've moved into in the late 2000, 24, early 25 range where... And I went through it because we had the Vince McMahon docuseries on Netflix, right? Right. Which is the most amazing thing ever if you ever watch it. Yeah. And people loved it. But one of the things they were telling us early on was like, boy, this is going to be great with the thumbnail. I'm like, what does that mean?

They're like the thumbnail where it's like a picture with the title. And ideally, it's like a cool picture that will make you want to watch it. And then like a two-word title. Right? So ours was perfect. It's Mr. McMahon, seven letters. You can make the letters big. It's a picture of Vince McMahon looking like he's about to clothesline somebody. Yep. And they're like, this is a wrap. People are going to click on this. Yeah. So Yacht Rock Killer. Yeah.

Oh, with a picture of you on a boat with like holding a knife sitting on the deck with headphones and a knife. Like that's it. Like they'll probably greenlit this right now. Here's what I want to do. Can I be an EP on Yacht Rock Killer? Dude, let's do it. Why don't we do it in your empire? Yeah, that's great. I'm in on Yacht Rock Killer. It seems like a no brainer. Who's the lady? Can we get Diane Lane finally? But wait, I have a better idea for the one sheet.

You know the classic Silk Degrees album? Oh, yeah. I'm sitting on the park bench like Boz Skaggs, but he has his arm out, and on this arm is a bloody knife. It's the Silk Degrees album holding a bloody knife. Yacht Rock Killer with Rob Lowe and Diane Lane.

And then Molly Ringwald's her friend that's suspicious of you who dies an hour and five minutes into the movie because you had to kill her. Yeah, because she was standing in the way. Get her out of there. Yeah, she was going to tell everybody what was really up with you. Oh, my God. Who do we get to direct this? We need somebody who can get the perfect... Well, that's the thing. The soundtrack for Yacht Rock Killer has to be like 80% of the budget. Yeah.

You can film everything. You know, you can pick anywhere body of water that's cheap that has tax credits, but you really got to put the money toward Kenny Loggins and Doobies and Christopher Cross. Sailing's got to be in the opening credits. Like you just, there's a way to do this correctly. No, you want, and it's one of those movies where you're dumping the body severed parts into a, into a, into a thing as sailing is planned. Which is the way sailing was meant to be listened to. Yeah.

You're dumping weighted garbage bags into the ocean. To sailing.

Oh, dude, we are definitely doing this. We are going to talk off air. We're going to talk off air. Netflix just greenlit it? They didn't even know. They just like randomly just greenlit it. They didn't even know what they're doing. No. They're just like, we're just blind greenlight. Okay, we've found, because both of us don't have enough work already. You know, it's like you and I are just slackers. Who's your best friend in Yacht Rock Killer who's defending you the whole time? Oh, boy. Okay.

It's got to be somebody that you worked with in the 80s that we got to bring back. It's got to be the ultimate sidekick. I mean, it could be Emilia. When was the last time you guys worked together? We haven't. Well, it'll be St. Elmo's Fire because that will probably be ahead of St. Elmo's Fire 2 will be ahead of Yacht Rock Killer. Oh, yeah. We can't dip into the St. Elmo's Fire 2 cast. Yacht Rock Killer could come together very quickly. Yeah. No, we can start filming it tomorrow. I think.

Just trailer. Or at least you could have your friends at Sirius just pay for a fake trailer for Yacht Rock Killer. And maybe we just do a trailer. Yes. To try to build buzz in the movie itself. Oh, I love this. Yeah, this is great. Okay, we've got so much to do. Well, this has been great. I actually want to end the interview so we can talk about Yacht Rock Killer. So I'm sorry, listeners.

We're going offline now because we're going to actually start. This is how things happen to Hollywood. We're going to start developing right now, right now on this show. I love it. I'm here for you at Rock Killer. All right. You're the best. I'm leaving it to you, beloved audience, to put the pressure on me to continue Yacht Rock Killer's development. And I'm also open on Lowdown Line for any plot ideas or casting ideas. I'm crowdsourcing this.

I'm crowdsourcing this. Dark, dark, dark, funny, winking, knowing, hilarious, weird, yacht rock killer with insane music. I'm counting on you because I'm busy, but I do want to do it. Bill Simmons was great. Bill, thank you for being on. I love you. You and I could talk for 10 hours and...

I would never get bored of listening to your amazing thoughts. And to everybody who did listen, thank you. And I will be back next week with more Literally. Thank you.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Sean Doherty, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar and research by Alyssa Grau. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel. Our executive producers are Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Nick Liao, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson for Stitcher. Booking by Deirdre Dodd. Music by Devin Bryant.

Special thanks to Hidden City Studios. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally.